[Fis] Fw: General Information Theory

2011-10-03 Thread Krassimir Markov


-Original Message- 
From: boris.sunik 
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 11:10 AM 
To: ithea-...@ithea.org 
Subject: General Information Theory 

Dear Colleague,

For your information:
http://www.GeneralInformationTheory.com

Regards,
Boris Sunik

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Re: [Fis] Fw: The General Information Theory of Sunik

2011-10-03 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Krassimir,

Thank you for bringing this document to our attention, for completeness. I 
would have wished, however, that you had made some comment on it, putting it 
into relation with your own work and, for example, that of Mark Burgin, 
which are dismissed out of hand.

From my point of view, Sunik's work is another one of those major steps 
backwards to an earlier, easier time when it was claimed that computer 
algorithms could provide all you know, and all you need to know about 
information. One example of a phrase the author presents as involving 
meaning is Peter's shirt size. . .

From a methodological standpoint, I think it underlines, /a contrario/, the 
danger of focus on a single approach to information. My current idea, which 
I propose for discussion, is that a document purporting to offer a theory of 
information should provide a reasoned, comparative discussion of 4 to 5 
theories. This number is large enough for judgments to be possible on a 
preferred approach and small enough for the average reader, like myself, to 
keep the similarities and differences in mind.

Thank you and best wishes,

Joseph

- Original Message - 
From: Krassimir Markov mar...@foibg.com
To: FIS fis@listas.unizar.es
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 12:00 PM
Subject: [Fis] Fw: General Information Theory


-Original Message- 
From: boris.sunik
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 11:10 AM
To: ithea-...@ithea.org
Subject: General Information Theory

Dear Colleague,

For your information:
http://www.GeneralInformationTheory.com

Regards,
Boris Sunik

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Re: [Fis] Fw: The General Information Theory of Sunik

2011-10-03 Thread Steven Ericsson-Zenith

The document seems extremely confused to me. This is not least because the 
author does not appear to present a clear definition of the terms in the title 
or the expression of subject in the work. In particular, I can find no 
definition of meaning other than the one presented in a quote from Shannon 
and the subsequent use of the term is confused to say the least. Similarly, the 
term semantic is not clearly defined and abused. The same goes for other 
terms such as knowledge.

So I take an even harsher view than Joseph since it is not even a good 
representative of the view that computer algorithms can provide all you know, 
and all you need to know. The definitive representative of that view is 
Stephen Wolfram's book A New Kind Of Science, and while I have my problems 
with the theory in the book, it is - at least - well defined.

With respect,
Steven


On Oct 3, 2011, at 9:17 AM, Joseph Brenner wrote:

 Dear Krassimir,
 
 Thank you for bringing this document to our attention, for completeness. I 
 would have wished, however, that you had made some comment on it, putting it 
 into relation with your own work and, for example, that of Mark Burgin, 
 which are dismissed out of hand.
 
 From my point of view, Sunik's work is another one of those major steps 
 backwards to an earlier, easier time when it was claimed that computer 
 algorithms could provide all you know, and all you need to know about 
 information. One example of a phrase the author presents as involving 
 meaning is Peter's shirt size. . .
 
 From a methodological standpoint, I think it underlines, /a contrario/, the 
 danger of focus on a single approach to information. My current idea, which 
 I propose for discussion, is that a document purporting to offer a theory of 
 information should provide a reasoned, comparative discussion of 4 to 5 
 theories. This number is large enough for judgments to be possible on a 
 preferred approach and small enough for the average reader, like myself, to 
 keep the similarities and differences in mind.
 
 Thank you and best wishes,
 
 Joseph
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Krassimir Markov mar...@foibg.com
 To: FIS fis@listas.unizar.es
 Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 12:00 PM
 Subject: [Fis] Fw: General Information Theory
 
 
 -Original Message- 
 From: boris.sunik
 Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 11:10 AM
 To: ithea-...@ithea.org
 Subject: General Information Theory
 
 Dear Colleague,
 
 For your information:
 http://www.GeneralInformationTheory.com
 
 Regards,
 Boris Sunik
 
 ___
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 fis@listas.unizar.es
 https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis 
 
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Re: [Fis] Fw: The General Information Theory of Sunik

2011-10-03 Thread Gavin Ritz
I agree with you both.

The declarative statements (4 statements in 2.4.1 Digital Computer versus
Brain: Are Neurons and bits really that different?) that are the proof of
the entire premise are unable to be proved, have no tests or evidence and
are taken as self evident.

This path is a dead end.

Regards
Gavin



The document seems extremely confused to me. This is not least because the
author does not appear to present a clear definition of the terms in the
title or the expression of subject in the work. In particular, I can find no
definition of meaning other than the one presented in a quote from Shannon
and the subsequent use of the term is confused to say the least. Similarly,
the term semantic is not clearly defined and abused. The same goes for
other terms such as knowledge.

So I take an even harsher view than Joseph since it is not even a good
representative of the view that computer algorithms can provide all you
know, and all you need to know. The definitive representative of that view
is Stephen Wolfram's book A New Kind Of Science, and while I have my
problems with the theory in the book, it is - at least - well defined.

With respect,
Steven


On Oct 3, 2011, at 9:17 AM, Joseph Brenner wrote:

 Dear Krassimir,
 
 Thank you for bringing this document to our attention, for completeness. I

 would have wished, however, that you had made some comment on it, putting
it 
 into relation with your own work and, for example, that of Mark Burgin, 
 which are dismissed out of hand.
 
 From my point of view, Sunik's work is another one of those major steps 
 backwards to an earlier, easier time when it was claimed that computer 
 algorithms could provide all you know, and all you need to know about 
 information. One example of a phrase the author presents as involving 
 meaning is Peter's shirt size. . .
 
 From a methodological standpoint, I think it underlines, /a contrario/,
the 
 danger of focus on a single approach to information. My current idea,
which 
 I propose for discussion, is that a document purporting to offer a theory
of 
 information should provide a reasoned, comparative discussion of 4 to 5 
 theories. This number is large enough for judgments to be possible on a 
 preferred approach and small enough for the average reader, like myself,
to 
 keep the similarities and differences in mind.
 
 Thank you and best wishes,
 
 Joseph
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Krassimir Markov mar...@foibg.com
 To: FIS fis@listas.unizar.es
 Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 12:00 PM
 Subject: [Fis] Fw: General Information Theory
 
 
 -Original Message- 
 From: boris.sunik
 Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 11:10 AM
 To: ithea-...@ithea.org
 Subject: General Information Theory
 
 Dear Colleague,
 
 For your information:
 http://www.GeneralInformationTheory.com
 
 Regards,
 Boris Sunik
 
 ___
 fis mailing list
 fis@listas.unizar.es
 https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis 
 
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 https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis


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