Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-10-21 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Pedro -- it is of interest to me that

On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 3:38 PM, PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ <
pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es> wrote:

> Dear FISers,
>
> Continuing with the comments on the "how" versus the "what", it is an
> important topic in mammalian (&vertebrate) nervous systems. They are
> subtended by mostly separate neural tracts (though partially
> interconnected), it is the dorsal stream, specialized in the how & where,
> and the ventral stream stream about the what.

-snip-

I think it of some interest that I have previously ( 2006  On Aristotle’s
conception of causality.  General Systems Bulletin 35: 11.) proposed that
the Aristotelian 'formal cause' determines both 'what happens' and 'how it
happens', and that the combination of this with material cause ('what it
happens to') delivers 'where' it happens.

(For completeness sake I add that efficient cause determines only 'when it
happens', while final cause points to 'why it happens'.  It would be quite
exciting to find that these informations were also carried on separate
tracts.)

STAN


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Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-10-21 Thread PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ
Dear FISers,

Continuing with the comments on the "how" versus the "what", it is an important 
topic in mammalian (&vertebrate) nervous systems. They are subtended by mostly 
separate neural tracts (though partially interconnected), it is the dorsal 
stream, specialized in the how & where, and the ventral stream stream about the 
what. In the case of C elegans, endowed with one of the simplest invertebrate 
nervous systems, I do not know whether the previous distinction makes sense 
there. The what, the identity of the "object" is in this case heavily 
dependendent on the genetic wiring of axons and on specialized  molecular 
receptors... But whatever the case, both the what and the how/where resolve in 
flows of electrical discharges through a series of neural networks. They "are" 
but the same flux of evanescent stuff, several hundred of spikes flowing for a 
few seconds.

About the deterministic outlook of both models, the cellular and the neuronal, 
I think there is an important problem of bulk complexity non tractable at the 
time being. Putting in stochastic form those hundreds of coupled differential 
equations with the whole cellular kinetics becomes too tough a demand. During 
these weeks we have also witnessed the resolution of the ENCODE project, what 
looks quite worryings is the highly specialized nature of the numeorus results, 
almost unreadable except for people with a strong background in bioinformatics 
and systems biology. People outside the field, theoretical biologists for 
instance, will have a very difficult time. Are we witnessing the birth of 
another esoteric realm like particle physics? Bad news for bio-information 
afficionados indeed.

These "milestones", and similar ones during very recent years (in "network 
science" specially), whatever their virtues and defects, have dramatically 
altered our information science panorama. One of the things we can do, in my 
view, is to carefully explore the concepts related to information flows. 
Cellularly, Neurally, Socially, the respective information items generally 
travel in waves, along channels that self-modify with the ongoing flux, and 
continuously alter the respective material/informational structures in 
communication.  Does it make sense contemplating the neuron as an information 
flow entity? I think so. And the people within an organization too.

Somehow, the challenge is to bring a corpus of fundamental ideas in line with 
the complex communication experiences of our time (and of all times!)

best greetings

---Pedro 

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