Dear Bob. I have special interest about the analogy between Maxwell's Laws and formalization of Information. This discussion could lead (in some aspects) to the way that natural scientists think about information as a science. By formalizing and generalizing empirical laws, Maxwell's equations was (for example) the key to understanding light and its speed. Do you have any expectation on formalizing information?
Best, Moises 2015-01-26 12:36 GMT-02:00 <fis-requ...@listas.unizar.es>: > Send Fis mailing list submissions to > fis@listas.unizar.es > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > fis-requ...@listas.unizar.es > > You can reach the person managing the list at > fis-ow...@listas.unizar.es > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Fis digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Fwd: Some ideas on the multidimensionality of information. > (Bob Logan) > > > ---------- Mensagem encaminhada ---------- > From: Bob Logan <lo...@physics.utoronto.ca> > To: fis <fis@listas.unizar.es> > Cc: > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2015 09:32:51 -0500 > Subject: [Fis] Fwd: Some ideas on the multidimensionality of information. > Dear FIS colleagues - here is an exchange between Terry Deacon and me that > I thought would be of interest to you. When I sent this email to Terry and > the Pirates it was stopped at the border of FIS listserv because I had > copied too many people. So I am sending it to you separately. Perhaps you > should read Terry's email to me first which is a response to my Jan 25 > email to him, the Pirates and copied to FIS. I am not sure if my Jan 25 > posting made it onto the FIS listserv. If you have not seen it it is just > after Terry's response to me also on Jan 25 - warm regards to all - Bob > > Terry - there was no thesis other than the word information is a > descriptor for so many different situations and that it is a part of a > semantic web - no roadmap only a jaunt through the countryside of > associations - a leisurely preamble. The post was meant to stimulate new > ways to think about information and to provoke new thoughts like the one in > your post below. You response is valuable so I have shared it with the rest > of the T&P team and our FIS friends. It provides another context for the > triad you introduced a few days ago of significance, reference and medium > which inspired my mind map. By the way you also seemed to have made an > association of that fourth element you mentioned, namely that > interpretation is required to turn data into facts. > > I called my musings a mind map because it mapped out all the associations > with information that your triad plus interpretation provoked. It started > out by my recording different associations that popped into my head which > included some poetry. Being a somewhat uninhibited kind of guy I thought it > was worth sharing and I am glad I did because of your *significant* > association > of the triad of significance, reference and medium with wisdom, knowledge > and Shannon information and the notion that data aren't facts unless > interpreted. > > One more thought about wisdom from the Talmud: > *Ethical Teachings - Selections from Pirkei Avot* > > 4:1 Ben Zoma said, "Who is wise? The one who learns from everyone, as it > is said, 'From all who would teach me, have I gained understanding.' > [Psalms 119:99] > > warm regards to all - Bob > > > On 2015-01-25, at 9:24 PM, Terrence W. DEACON wrote: > > “Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge? > Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?” > – TS Eliot > > His hierarchical prescinding is the essence of the significance > (wisdom) - reference (knowledge) - medium (Shannon information) nested > hierarchy. > > Data aren't "facts" until interpreted and their reference is determined. > > Bob, I'm afraid I don't quite get a clear sense of your intended > thesis. So before I go online please provide a road map. — Terry > > > On 1/25/15, Bob Logan <lo...@physics.utoronto.ca> wrote: > > Dear FISers -I have been following the FIS conversation re Terry's paper. I > > have let Terry and Jeremy carry the burden of the dialogue with FIS. As an > > FISer and a Pirate I have been neutral and did not want to enter the fray > > but I now have something worth sharing - some of it stimulated by the FIS > > dialogue and some by internal Terry and the Pirates conversations within > our > > research group. I have a rather long post to make up for my absence in the > > conversation to date. I hope that I will have the benefit of your comments. > > I have just shared this paper with my T&P colleagues through our normal > > email channel. > > > The Many Dimensions of Information; No Word is an Island – A Mind Map > > > Bob Logan > > > Prolegma and an Abstract: The concept of information has many dimensions > and > > is described in many different ways. It has many different associations. It > > has many different definitions. It has many different interpretations. It > > has many different interpreters. This is an attempt to identify all of > these > > associations, definitions, interpretations, and interpreters. It is in a > > certain sense a mind map but it is the map of my mind, my definitions, my > > associations, my interpretations, what is significant for me about > > information, what information means for me, the thoughts that thinking > about > > information inspire and the thinkers that I believe have and can provide > > insights into the nature of information. It is a catalogue. It is a > > hypothesis. It has been compiled by induction, deduction and abduction. For > > you the reader it is to communicate the complexity and many dimensions of > > information. For me it is a starting point to rethink every thing I ever > > thought about information including > > > 1. My reading of Incomplete Nature by Terrence Deacon > > > 2. The discussions I have had with Terry and the Pirates (Terry is > > Terrence Deacon, and the Pirates are the group that meets with Terry more > or > > less once a week in his home in Berkeley California with others like me > > joining by Skype. The group continues those weekly discussions by email). > > > 3. My FIS (Foundations of Information Science) listserv discussions. > > > 4. The paper I co-authored with Stuart Kauffman and others entitled > “The > > Propagation of Information: An Enquiry” where we posited that “the > > constraints that allow autonomous agents to channel free energy into work > > are connected to information: in fact, simply put, the constraints are the > > information, are partially causal in the diversity of what occurs in cells, > > and are part of the organization that is propagated.” > > > 5. My book What is Information? - Propagating Organization in the > > Biosphere, the Symbolosphere, the Technosphere and the Econosphere (Logan > > 2014) > > > Acknowlegement: This mind map project is inspired by Terry Deacon’s remarks > > during our Jan 21 T&P session and by an email he sent the following day, > > where he wrote, > > > Maxwell formulated the laws of electromagnetism not as one equation but as > > four interrelated equations, each defining a fundamental relation, i.e. > > formalizing the findings of Gauss, Faraday, and Ampere. Perhaps to > formalize > > information we will need at least three: corresponding to medium > properties, > > referential properties, and significance properties— and possibly a fourth > > defining interpretation (though this may be what the > > three together define) > > > I. Words > > > The Semantic Web: Words are interconnected –they form a Semantic Web. Their > > meaning arises in association with all the other words in their language > > and, as is the case with the word information, in association with its > Latin > > and French origins. Words are entangled, networked, interdependent, > > interconnected, interwoven, elements of a web, contextualized. > > > No word is an island entire of itself; every word is a piece of the > language > > from which it emerges, a part of the language; the death of any association > > with a word diminishes it because every word is involved with every other > > word. Never ask what is the exact meaning of a word or for whom that word > > has meaning; depending on all your experiences that word tolls for thee and > > has a particular meaning for thee. (A riff on John Donne’s 'No Man is an > > Island'): > > > No man is an island entire of itself; every man > > is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; > > if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe > > is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as > > well as any manner of thy friends or of thine > > own were; any man's death diminishes me, > > because I am involved in mankind. > > And therefore never send to know for whom > > the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. > > > That no word is an island is especially true of the following words: > > > Information, Inform, Form, Formal, Formal Cause, Formality, Formation (in > > English this word has the meaning of a form of organization whereas in > > French it has the meaning of training). And these associations are just > the > > beginning. > > > Formal cause links to efficient cause, material cause and final cause ala > > Aristotle. > > > Origin of the word information as forming the mind: > > > “The English word information according to the Oxford English Dictionary > > (OED) first appears in the written record in 1386 by Chaucer: “Whanne > > Melibee hadde herd the grete skiles and resons of Dame Prudence, and hire > > wise informacions and techynges.” The word is derived from Latin through > > French by combining the word inform meaning giving a form to the mind with > > the ending “ation” denoting a noun of action. This earliest definition > > refers to an item of training or molding of the mind (Logan 2014).” > > > Other words associated with information: > > > Interpretation, interpret, clarify, construe, decipher, depict, elucidate, > > explicate, connotation, exegetics > > > Sign: significance, signify, signification, significant, sign, designate, > > specify, identify > > > Reference, refer, referee, referential, infer, indicate, indicative, index, > > point out, > > > Represent, stand for > > > Semiotics: icon, index, symbol > > > Language, concept, conceive, percept, perceive > > > Language, semantics, syntax, pragmatics, grammar, langue, parole (as > defined > > by de Saussure) > > > Inspire; Inspiration; > > > Meaning, the mean, the means > > > Sentience > > > Cybernetics – Wiener - feedback > > > Medium; The medium is the message; The two messages of a medium: its > content > > and its effect independent of its content - McLuhan. > > > Message > > > Communicate, communication, commune > > > Rhetoric; Context; The context of information helps define the meaning of a > > communication or utterance; Feedforward – I. A. Richards, pragmatics > > > Figure/ground: The meaning, significance or the interpretation of a figure > > depends on the ground. environment or surroundings it operates in - McLuhan > > > Umwelt innenwelt umgebung – Euxkull > > > One can apply the notion of umwelt to humans and each individual has their > > own unique umwelt or context in which they percieve the world and conceive > > their thoughts. Their innenwelt or self-oriented features shape their > > umgebung or world-oriented features. Translating this into McLuhan speak > the > > innenwelt is the ground and the umgebung is the figure from which I > conclude > > it is the innenwelt that detrmines the interpretation of what is perceived > > to form the umgebung, or world-oriented features. > > Shannon information, sender, channel, receiver > > > Selective information versus structural information: “Mackay’s first move > > was to rescue information that affected the receiver’s mindset from the > > ‘subjective’ label. He proposed that both Shannon and Bavelas were > concerned > > with what he called Selective information, that is information calculated > by > > considering the selection of message elements from a set. But selective > > information alone is not enough; also required is another kind of > > information that he called ‘structural.’ Structural information indicates > > how selective information is to be understood; it is a message about how to > > interpret a message—that is, it is a metacommunication (Hayles 1999a, pp. > > 54-55 cited by Logan 2014).” [bolding mine] > > > Shannon was not shannonian {He did not overdo the interpretation of > > Shannonian entropy as did many advocates of information theory. > > Understand, comprehend, apprehend, appreciate, > > > Respond, reply > > > Deixis (deictic) words that point, words and phrases that cannot be fully > > understood without additional contextual information; a word whose meaning > > is dependent on context > > > Words are woven together to form a text just as threads are woven to form a > > textile, which usually refers to written communication. There is also the > > notion that one spins a yarn, which describes oral communication. > > > Letters, literacy, literal > > > Data, Information, Knowledge, Wisdom: The relationship of data, > information, > > knowledge and wisdom > > > “Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge? > > > Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?” – TS Eliot > > > “Where is the meaning we have lost in information?” – RK Logan > > > “• Data are the pure and simple facts without any particular structure or > > organization, the > > > basic atoms of information, > > > • Information is structured data, which adds meaning to the data and gives > > it context and > > > significance, > > > • Knowledge is the ability to use information strategically to achieve > one's > > objectives, and > > > • Wisdom is the capacity to choose objectives consistent with one's values > > and within a larger social context (Logan 2014).” > > > ______________________ > > > Robert K. Logan > > Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto > > Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD > > http://utoronto.academia.edu/RobertKLogan > > www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan > > www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Professor Terrence W. Deacon > University of California, Berkeley > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Fis mailing list > Fis@listas.unizar.es > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > > -- Moisés André Nisenbaum Doutorando IBICT/UFRJ. Professor. Msc. Instituto Federal do Rio de Janeiro - IFRJ Campus Maracanã moises.nisenb...@ifrj.edu.br
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