Re: [Fis] Principles of IS
rphogenesis. This may seem tangential at best to your discussion of Information Science, but if you'll bear with me I will get to the point. In my (humble) opinion, information is the 'language' of evolution, but communication of information as a process is the mechanism. In my reduction of evolution as communication, it comes down to the interface between physics and biology, which was formed when the first cell delineated its internal environment (Claude Bernard, Walter B Cannon) from the outside environment. From that point on, the dialog between the environment and the organism has been on-going, the organism internalizing the external environment and compartmentalizing it to form what we recognize as physiology (Endosymbiosis Theory). Much of this thinking has come from new scientific evidence for Lamarckian epigenetic inheritance from my laboratory and that of many others- how the organism internalizes information from the environment by chemically changing the information in DNA in the egg and sperm, and then in the zygote and offspring, across generations. So here we have a fundamental reason to reconsider what 'information' actually means biologically. If you are interested in any of my publications on this subject please let me know (jtor...@ucla.edu <mailto:jtor...@ucla.edu>). Thank you for any interest you may have in this alternative way of thinking about information, communication and evolution. ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis Dear FIS Colleagues, As promised herewith the "10 principles of information science". A couple of previous comments may be in order. First, what is in general the role of principles in science? I was motivated by the unfinished work of philosopher Ortega y Gasset, "The idea of principle in Leibniz and the evolution of deductive theory" (posthumously published in 1958). Our tentative information science seems to be very different from other sciences, rather multifarious in appearance and concepts, and cavalierly moving from scale to scale. What could be the specific role of principles herein? Rather than opening homogeneous realms for conceptual development, these information principles would appear as a sort of "portals" that connect with essential topics of other disciplines in the different organization layers, but at the same time they should try to be consistent with each other and provide a coherent vision of the information world. And second, about organizing the present discussion, I bet I was too optimistic with the commentators scheme. In any case, for having a first glance on the whole scheme, the opinions of philosophers would be very interesting. In order to warm up the discussion, may I ask John Collier, Joseph Brenner and Rafael Capurro to send some initial comments / criticisms? Later on, if the commentators idea flies, Koichiro Matsuno and Wolfgang Hofkirchner would be very valuable voices to put a perspectival end to this info principles discussion (both attended the Madrid bygone FIS 1994 conference)... But this is FIS list, unpredictable in between the frozen states and the chaotic states! So, everybody is invited to get ahead at his own, with the only customary limitation of two messages per week. Best wishes, have a good weekend --Pedro *10 **PRINCIPLES OF INFORMATION SCIENCE* 1. Information is information, neither matter nor energy. 2. Information is comprehended into structures, patterns, messages, or flows. 3. Information can be recognized, can be measured, and can be processed (either computationally or non-computationally). 4. Information flows are essential organizers of life's self-production processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up with the accompanying energy flows. 5. Communication/information exchanges among adaptive life-cycles underlie the complexity of biological organizations at all scales. 6. It is symbolic language what conveys the essential communication exchanges of the human species--and constitutes the core of its "social nature." 7. Human information may be systematically converted into efficient knowledge, by following the "knowledge instinct" and further up by applying rigorous methodologies. 8. Human cognitive limitations on knowledge accumulation are partially overcome via the social organization of "knowledge ecologies." 9. Knowledge circulates and recombines socially, in a continuous actualization that involves "creative destruction" of fields and disciplines: the intellectual /Ars Magna./ 10. Information science proposes a new, radical vision on the information and knowledge flows that support individual lives, with profound consequences for scientific-philosophical practice and for social governance. -- -
Re: [Fis] A provocative issue
tell Lab, University Manitoba http://arturotozzi.webnode.it/ ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- - Pedro C. Marijuán Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA) Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0 50009 Zaragoza, Spain Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818) pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ - ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics (http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org) Distinguished Researcher at the African Centre of Excellence for Information Ethics (ACEIE), Department of Information Science, University of Pretoria, South Africa. Chair, International Center for Information Ethics (ICIE) (http://icie.zkm.de) Editor in Chief, International Review of Information Ethics (IRIE) (http://www.i-r-i-e.net) Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany E-Mail:raf...@capurro.de Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21) Homepage:www.capurro.de -- - Pedro C. Marijuán Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA) Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0 50009 Zaragoza, Spain Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818) pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ --------- -- Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics (http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org) Distinguished Researcher at the African Centre of Excellence for Information Ethics (ACEIE), Department of Information Science, University of Pretoria, South Africa. Chair, International Center for Information Ethics (ICIE) (http://icie.zkm.de) Editor in Chief, International Review of Information Ethics (IRIE) (http://www.i-r-i-e.net) Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany E-Mail:raf...@capurro.de Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21) Homepage:www.capurro.de -- Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics (http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org) Distinguished Researcher at the African Centre of Excellence for Information Ethics (ACEIE), Department of Information Science, University of Pretoria, South Africa. Chair, International Center for Information Ethics (ICIE) (http://icie.zkm.de) Editor in Chief, International Review of Information Ethics (IRIE) (http://www.i-r-i-e.net) Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany E-Mail: raf...@capurro.de Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21) Homepage: www.capurro.de ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] Is quantum information the basis of spacetime?
tp://web.stanford.edu/~phayden/simons/simons-proposal.pdf <http://web.stanford.edu/%7Ephayden/simons/simons-proposal.pdf> Mainly, it is an Interdisciplinary Resarch group trying to approximate Fundamental Physics from Quantum Information, so I think that it is a good and necessary initiative. Imagine what we can “extract” from this two fields working together! They have several projects, but I think that the final goals is not as important as the revelations of the processes. We should look at the projects. Maybe we can find that, after all, the title “it from qbit” was only a “marketing” (bad?) choice :-) Kind regards, Moisés References: STONIER, T. *Towards a new theory of information*. Journal of Information Science. *Anais*...1991Disponível em: http://www.scopus.com/inward/record.url?eid=2-s2.0-0026386595=tZOtx3y1 <http://www.scopus.com/inward/record.url?eid=2-s2.0-0026386595=tZOtx3y1> “Information science is badly in need of an information theory. The paper discusses both the need, and the possibility of developing such a theory based on the assumption that information is a basic property of the universe.” LYRE, H. Quantum theory of Ur-objects as a theory of information. *International Journal of Theoretical Physics*, v. 34, n. 8, p. 1541–1552, ago. 1995. “The quantum theory of ur-objects proposed by C. F. von Weizsäcker has to be interpreted as a quantum theory of information.” WEIZSÄCKER, C. F. VON; GÖRNITZ, T.; LYRE, H. *The structure of physics*. Dordrecht: Springer, 2006. “the idea of a quantum theory of binary alternatives (the so-called ur-theory), a unified quantum theoretical framework in which spinorial symmetry groups are considered to give rise to the structure of space and time.” 2016-11-03 16:52 GMT-02:00 John Collier <colli...@ukzn.ac.za <mailto:colli...@ukzn.ac.za>>: Apparently some physicists think so. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/tangled-up-in-spacetime/?WT.mc_id=SA_WR_20161102 <https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/tangled-up-in-spacetime/?WT.mc_id=SA_WR_20161102> John Collier Emeritus Professor and Senior Research Associate Philosophy, University of KwaZulu-Natal http://web.ncf.ca/collier ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es <mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis <http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis> -- Moisés André Nisenbaum Doutorando IBICT/UFRJ. Professor. Msc. Instituto Federal do Rio de Janeiro - IFRJ Campus Rio de Janeiro moises.nisenb...@ifrj.edu.br <mailto:moises.nisenb...@ifrj.edu.br> ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es <mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis <http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis> -- Dr. Mark William Johnson Institute of Learning and Teaching Faculty of Health and Life Sciences University of Liverpool Visiting Professor Far Eastern Federal University, Russia Phone: 07786 064505 Email: johnsonm...@gmail.com <mailto:johnsonm...@gmail.com> Blog: http://dailyimprovisation.blogspot.com ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics (http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org) Distinguished Researcher at the African Centre of Excellence for Information Ethics (ACEIE), Department of Information Science, University of Pretoria, South Africa. Chair, International Center for Information Ethics (ICIE) (http://icie.zkm.de) Editor in Chief, International Review of Information Ethics (IRIE) (http://www.i-r-i-e.net) Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany E-Mail: raf...@capurro.de Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21) Homepage: www.capurro.de ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] Is quantum information the basis of spacetime?
Andrei, maybe the concept of message as already used by Shannon and Weaver in specific engineering contexts (this must not be always the case) is more appropriate and also able to speak about 'information' as what is 'in' a message 'for' a receiver. Best. Rafael Hello Andrei - I am with you - sharing you sentiment. Information only pertains to living organisms and entails some signals that help them make a choice. A black hole makes no choices - it is ruled by the laws of physics. Abiotic systems have no information. A book is a set of signals that a reader can convert into information if they know the language which the book is written. A book written in Urdu contains no information for me other than this appears to be a set of signals that contains information for a reader in the language in which this book was written. Who reads a black hole. How does it contain information that makes a difference. When we launch a satellite to orbit the earth we do not say that the sun is informing the satellite how to behave. The satellite is just following the laws of physics. It has no choice and so it is not being informed. There are many different forms of information (biotic and Shannon as found in the 2007 paper Propagating Organization: An Inquiry by Kauffman, Logan et al. in Biology and Philosophy 23: 27-45) so we do not need to complicate things even more by ascribing the laws of physics as the communication of information. __ Robert K. Logan Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto Fellow University of St. Michael's College Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD http://utoronto.academia.edu/RobertKLogan www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan <http://www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan> www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications <http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications> On Nov 4, 2016, at 4:17 AM, Andrei Khrennikov <andrei.khrenni...@lnu.se <mailto:andrei.khrenni...@lnu.se>> wrote: Dear all, I want to comment so called information approach to physics, by speaking with hundreds of leading experts in quantum foundations, I found that nobody can define rigorously the basic term "information" which is so widely used in their theories and discussions, the answers are as "information is the basic entity" which cannot be defined in other terms. Well, my impression is that without novel understanding and definition of information all these "theories" are practically empty, well very good mathematical exercises. May be I am too critical... But I spent so much time by trying to understand what people are talking about. The output is ZERO. all the best, andrei Andrei Khrennikov, Professor of Applied Mathematics, Int. Center Math Modeling: Physics, Engineering, Economics, and Cognitive Sc. Linnaeus University, Växjö, Sweden My RECENT BOOKS: http://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/p1036 http://www.springer.com/in/book/9789401798181 http://www.panstanford.com/books/9789814411738.html http://www.cambridge.org/cr/academic/subjects/physics/econophysics-and-financial-physics/quantum-social-science http://www.springer.com/us/book/9783642051005 From: Fis [fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] on behalf of Gyorgy Darvas [darv...@iif.hu] Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2016 10:23 PM To: John Collier; fis Subject: Re: [Fis] Is quantum information the basis of spacetime? John: The article describes very really the conflicting attitudes. Interesting to see the diverse arguments together. I agree, some think so, some do not. I do the latter, but this does not make any matter. Gyuri On 2016.11.03. 19:52, John Collier wrote: Apparently some physicists think so. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/tangled-up-in-spacetime/?WT.mc_id=SA_WR_20161102 John Collier Emeritus Professor and Senior Research Associate Philosophy, University of KwaZulu-Natal http://web.ncf.ca/collier ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es<mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics (http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org) Distinguished Researcher at the African Centre of Excellence for Information Ethics (ACEIE), Department of Information Science, University of Pretoria, South Africa. Chair, International Center for Information Ethics (ICIE) (http://icie.zkm.de) Editor in Chief, International Review of Information Ethics (IRIE) (http://www.i-r-i-e.net) Po
Re: [Fis] Scientific Communication and Publishing
Dear Mark, thanks for your inspiring and indeed provocative presentation. Just some few remarks/questions about: 1) was it since the 16th and 17th century also a nationalistic issue when claiming who was the first one to have done a 'discovery' and is it in a different way still today? Do you know of any analysis on this? 2) You describe the changes of _scientific_ publication and particularly the issue of journals that have to do with the shorter time of 'discoveries' (journals=jours=days) with the rise of modern empirical science. Where is the difference with regard to the humanities and literature? The role of copyright (including patents) is, as you know, changing and you point to this indirectly at the end of your video presentation which I very much share. But the economic (and national?) power of big players is still there, creating scarcity in a time of (potential) digital abundance of 'information' 3) A few months ago I wrote a paper (in Spanish) on: "What is a scientific journal?" with similar insights to the ones you present http://informatio.eubca.edu.uy/ojs/index.php/Infor/issue/view/16/showToc best regards Rafael Dear FIS Colleagues, To kick-start the discussion on scientific publishing, I have prepared a short (hopefully provocative) video. It can be found at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Bh3vqM98-U (if anyone's interested, the software I used for producing it is called 'Videoscribe') I have also produced a paper which is attached. I hope you find these interesting and stimulating! Best wishes, Mark ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics (http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org) Distinguished Researcher at the African Centre of Excellence for Information Ethics (ACEIE), Department of Information Science, University of Pretoria, South Africa. Chair, International Center for Information Ethics (ICIE) (http://icie.zkm.de) Editor in Chief, International Review of Information Ethics (IRIE) (http://www.i-r-i-e.net) Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany E-Mail: raf...@capurro.de Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21) Homepage: www.capurro.de ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] Essential Core?
Alex a main problem I see with Brillouin (the same as with Shannon) https://www.bibnum.education.fr/calculinformatique/theorie-de-l-information/naissance-de-la-theorie-de-l-information is that he speaks about the transmission of information (with regard to Shannon), while in fact it is a message and not 'information' that is being transmitted. This quid pro quo is amazing in a scientist like Brillouin who is interested in the exact definition of concepts. Shannon's theory is called A mathematical theory of communication (not: of information). Rafael John, I read the English translation of Science and Information theory in 1976 and was profoundly influenced by it. I started doing so because I was trying to understand conscious awareness at that time, and it struck me that information theory was the closest thing to it in science at the time. (not being impressed much by S's cat etc.) So you see it took 40 years thought for me to get to where I am now. Even in 2008 when I had 90% of my present theory worked out, I was not formulating it as a new theory of information. Reading and re-rereading (!) Shear and Chalmers was central to that. And the fluid Reynolds number analogy which led me to see that I did indeed have a genuine 'Double Aspect' information theory of just the right kind. Alex On 8 July 2016 at 20:37, John Collier <colli...@ukzn.ac.za <mailto:colli...@ukzn.ac.za>> wrote: Comment inserted below yours. John Collier Professor Emeritus and Senior Research Associate University of KwaZulu-Natal http://web.ncf.ca/collier *From:*Fis [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es>] *On Behalf Of *Michel Godron *Sent:* Friday, 08 July 2016 4:52 PM *To:* fis@listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es>; l...@leydesdorff.net <mailto:l...@leydesdorff.net> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Essential Core? My responses are in red Bien reçu votre message. MERCI. Cordialement. M. Godron Le 08/07/2016 à 14:42, Pedro C. Marijuan a écrit : Dear FIS Colleagues, Some brief responses to the different parties: Marcus: there were several sessions dealing with info physics, where I remember some historical connotations with mechanics emerged. Mostly 1998 and 2002 chaired by Koichiro Matsuno and 2004 by Michel Petitjean. Afterwards the theme has surfaced relatively often. About the present possibilities for a UTI, my opinion is that strictly remaining within Shannon's and anthropocentric discourse boundaries there is no way out. Yes, but it is not the same with Brillouin's information : I could send to you a text in French which gives a demonstration of the convergence between that information and thermodynamical neguentropy. Since twenty years, I did not find an english review which was interested by this problem, because I am biologist and the biological reviews were not interested. */[John Collier] I agree. I have read only an English translation of Science and Information Theory. I read it as an undergrad, and it has strongly influenced my views. It is unfortunate, I think, that it hasn’t influenced English speaking scientists much. I have also seen some bad misreadings of what he was saying./* ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es <mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- Alex Hankey M.A. (Cantab.) PhD(M.I.T.) Distinguished Professor of Yoga and Physical Science, SVYASA, Eknath Bhavan, 19 Gavipuram Circle Bangalore 560019, Karnataka, India Mobile (Intn'l): +44 7710 534195 Mobile (India) +91 900 800 8789 2015 JPBMB Special Issue on Integral Biomathics: Life Sciences, Mathematics and Phenomenological Philosophy <http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/00796107/119/3> ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics (http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org) Distinguished Researcher at the African Centre of Excellence for Information Ethics (ACEIE), Department of Information Science, University of Pretoria, South Africa. Chair, International Center for Information Ethics (ICIE) (http://icie.zkm.de) Editor in Chief, International Review of Information Ethics (IRIE) (http://www.i-r-i-e.net) Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany E-Mail: raf...@capurro.de Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21) Homepage: www.capurro.de ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] Towards a 3φ integrative medicine
Karl, I think that the semiotic system of references or the 'world' in which an organism is embedded is indeed a condition of possibility for the in- or de-formational value for the organism (forms are transmitted 'as' messages). What is poison or what healthy for an organism depends on this context, they are second-order categories. In the case of us, humans, this context is not 'just' biological but also cultural, so that the 'information density' of food depends also on this culturally changing context. We eat also with our 'minds,' i.e. with our pre-conceptions of what is 'good' or 'bad' for us, in a given society, today: in a globalized and digitalized informational world. I recommend you the books by Andoni Luis Aduriz, two star chef of the restaurant Mugaritz in the Pais Vasco https://www.mugaritz.com/es/andoni-luis-aduriz/libros/c-2-22/ particularly the one written together with Daniel Innerarity: Cocinar, comer, convivir, Barcelona 2012 (other books also in English) I/we had the privilege to meet Andoni personally last week and taste the magnificent food he and his team produces. best Rafael Just a small detail on the information density of food (air, water, sensory input, etc.) in medicine: The DNA has a high informational value for the organism. Can it be said that poison has also an informational value? Can the de-constructive effect of a substance quantified based on the same semiotic system of references as the constructive effect of a substance can be referred to in that same system of references? ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics (http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org) Distinguished Researcher at the African Centre of Excellence for Information Ethics (ACEIE), Department of Information Science, University of Pretoria, South Africa. Chair, International Center for Information Ethics (ICIE) (http://icie.zkm.de) Editor in Chief, International Review of Information Ethics (IRIE) (http://www.i-r-i-e.net) Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany E-Mail: raf...@capurro.de Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21) Homepage: www.capurro.de ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] Clarifying Posting
dear all, some days ago I sent a mail in spanish to pedro, and he suggested me to make an english translation with... google! hm... I try to translate it with my brain even if there might be (surely) a lot of misunderstandings. so... first the original spanish sentence by sentence ortega era un gran fenomenologo y escribia muy bien tambien, y no era un reduccionista claro, sino que buscaba diferenciar los fenomenos, sin crear jerarquias, yo soy yo y mis circunstancias... ortega y gasset was a great phenomenologist and he wrote in a wonderful style, he was not a redctionist but looked for phenomenological differences, without creating hierarchies, "I am I and my circumstances" si, a diferencia del modo de ser de otros animales (para decirlo en forma muy general) que estan muy condicionados por sus circunstancias (o son 'pobres en mundo' es decir en la posibilidad de salir o cuestionar las circunstancias y abrirse a un poder ser, que nos permite a nosotros, construir otra realidad a la que vivimos en una situacion determinada... yes, there are differences between the way we humans are and the ways other living beings are, (to put it in a crude way) as they are very conditioned by the circumtances (this is what I meant my 'world poor') i.e. withou being able to question their circumstances or to open themselves to other possibilities, build another reality/world as the one they belong to bueno, por aqui va una fenomenologia de los seres vivientes, de los cuales formamos parte, ciertamente y muchas veces vivimos mas como meros seres vivientes que con las posibilidades que nos da un poder ir mas alla de lo que nos condiciona aqui y ahora, esto supone un riesgo, ya que el vivir abiertos a un poder ser, y que cada realidad nos abra a otras posibilidades es algo que produce angustia o por los menos la puede producir well... a phenomenololgy of living beings, to which we belong and we often live in the same way, without going beyond what is given, the given circumstances, because this means taking a risk and provokes often anxiety, but each reality or 'circmstances' we achieve immediatly opens new possibiliies y asi, como en la politca, intentantos quedarnos en lo que somos/estamos, los otros animales, por su lado, tienen una mucho mayor sensibilidad para la situacion que los condiciona y una riqueza de perception que nos supera, las celulas son muy smart, me decia un dia koichiro matsuno cuando visite su universidad en nagaoka en 1998 y ahora estamos aprendiendo a valorar esa inmensa riqueza y variedad de los modos de vida de otro seres vivientes con sus propiedades y las formas de convivir con ellos no? and so as in politics we often prefer to stay where we are... and other animals for intancce have a much richer sensibility for the circumstances they are facing, one day in 1998 when I visited koichiro matsuno in nagaoka he told me: cells are very smart! and now we are learning from the way of life o other living being, with their properties and trying to live with them... y para esto es bueno, 'salvar los fenomenos' como decian los griegos, es decir ver de que formas son/viven otro seres vivientes (o no...), la fenomeno-logia es una tarea conceptual (logos) diferente a la tarea aritmologica y tambien a la tarea de explicar los fenomenos por sus causas (aitiai, decian los griegos), lo cual nos lleva de un fenomeno a otro, pero nos hace olvidar lo que tenemos delante mismo... and for this is good to "save the phenomena" or 'sozein ta phainomena" as the Greek said, i.e. to try to see different forms of being, and this is a conceptual task (logos) different from the task of quantifying phenomena or of explaing them through cauality i.e. by going to other phenomena (looking for the 'aitiai' or causes) but this lets us forget what we have in front of us... y tambien es asi que la tarea fenomenologica de juntar aspectos comunes (el eidos de husserl...) es algo dificil de hacer, no menos dificil que el describir matematicamente los fenomenos o buscar causas, siempre inseguro, tentativo, con bordes difusos... y a veces, como en el caso del electromagnetismo, parecia que los dos fenomenos son diversos hasta que vino maxwell y vio las cosas de forma diferente ... and... so the phenomenological task is trying to find our what is common to the phenomena (Husserl's eidos) which is difficult to do, no less difficult than describing them mathematically or explaining them cauaally, always tentaive, no secure, with fuzzy borders and in some cases as with maxwells's view of electromagnetism, it comes out that we think there are two phenonmena, where in fact, there only one... best rafael un abrazo rafael ortega y gasset was a Dear FIS Colleagues, Some parties have doubts on how to count the two messages per week --the maximum allowed in this list except for the discussion chair, which currently is Alex. Following the international business week, the count starts on Monday and
Re: [Fis] The phenomenology of life
of animal life'. We already know from published studies that gorillas have a sense of humour and know perfectly well when they are telling lies (whether jokes or otherwise), and that this gives distinct insight into what minds other than human minds are capable of. All best wishes, Alex P.S. Because of conference participation activities my internet connection over the past few days has been very limited. Hence my waiting until now to make a decent reply to this valuable comment. I have however been a little surprised by the small number of communications and would appreciate a little feedback: Is the material in the first half too technical and new? Or were the accompanying papers too long/difficult? Does it need further expansion and explanations? Does the material in the second half seem too unlikely / implausible? Thanks in advance for any feedback that anyone cares to send me, either privately or thru Fis. On 28 April 2016 at 06:47, Rafael Capurro <raf...@capurro.de> wrote: Dear Pedro and all, these are some thoughts on phenomenology of life: http://www.capurro.de/patent.html best Rafael Dear Alex and colleagues, Thanks for the opportunity to ad a few lines on signaling matters. I would not discard any organizational aspect of signaling pathways. I have put below a diagram that approaches the dynamics of some major ones.Your analogy with mobile phones would be right, provided that conversations were mixed, that a number of receivers were just random, and that a component of "experience information" would be entered too --I think it can apply to the dynamics of second messengers, where multitudes of microevents and pathways may be integrated via lots of feedbacks (See the box in the figure below). Symmetry is a big word concerning the organization of pathways in the construction of multicellular development... opposed paths, tipping points, collective (populational) symmetry breakings, massive feedbacks, etc. By the way, when we commented days ago on Tononi's phi, both from John Collier and myself, the idea was to consider it as applied to the closure of meaning episodes in language. How "getting" the meaning of some linguistic episode (eg, a joke) provokes a sudden change of transient connectivity between areas... Apart from meaning, it may also be interesting that there seems to be a strong asymmetry in between the incoming / outgoing information flows--the "social info loops" around. In most human organizations, the ratio is in between 3 and 4. It means that you and me are ordered by upper levels in around 80 % of our exchanges, while what we send upwards becomes a meager 20 %. It is from a statistics on business communication metrics. The generalization is far from direct, but maybe it would occur in the cells too--amazingly there is very little literature on cellular "signal emission". Anyhow, how the whole ascending and descending info flows give raise to all the varieties of organizational complexity is a fascinating problem, All the best--Pedro *Figure 6: Prototypical signaling pathways of multicellularity.* From left to right, a stimulus in the intercellular space binds to a transmembrane receptor (sensor) on its extracellular domain. Upon binding, the receptor undergoes a transient modification of its cytoplasmic domain; this effect triggers a transient modification of a series of proteins in the cell, each one acting as an intermediate in the signal transduction pathway (signal processing), with characteristic hierarchies of protein kinases and second messengers. The last components are actuators or effectors that activate or inhibit proteins and channels that control several cellular functions, notably gene expression by means of transcriptional switches that may interact with several coactivator partners. The whole biochemical changes produced in the cell represent the response to the received signal —its *molecular meaning*. El 26/04/2016 a las 10:10, Alex Hankey escribió: Dear Pedro, Thank you for the comments on my presentation, and particularly for reminding us all that life transmits information of many different kinds by very specific and selective processes in chemical signally molecules. I must confess that I had assumed that such kinds of signals could be considered special cases of digital information analogous to the codes transmitted by a digital signalling tower in a mobile telephone network, where the initial code has to name the device that the rest of that message section is meant to receive. In mobile phone systems, individual devices are sent information by identifiers. If we have a nervous system working with several neurotransmitters, or a cell signalling system working with a number of cytokines, each with a specific regulatory influence / purpose, are these individual items not performing in ways that are covered by the usual combination of Wiener and Shannon, and therefore in principle unders
Re: [Fis] Information Science and the City. Trans-in-form-action
mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics (http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org) Distinguished Researcher at the African Centre of Excellence for Information Ethics (ACEIE), Department of Information Science, University of Pretoria, South Africa. President, International Center for Information Ethics (ICIE) (http://icie.zkm.de) Editor in Chief, International Review of Information Ethics (IRIE) (http://www.i-r-i-e.net) Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany E-Mail: raf...@capurro.de Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21) Homepage: www.capurro.de ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] fis Digest, Vol 579, Issue 18
find that there is a more closed relationship between both concepts because, as far as I understand biological processes not being a biologist..., when a cell sends a message (and, of course, it is we, humans, who interpret this process _as_ a messaging process, cells know (!) nothing about it...) then they send a 'form' or make a 'meaning offer' (I put a lot of quotation marks...) to the other cell and so the 'meaning' of this message is a form that can or cannot be accepted by the other cell. Sometimes the receiver is not prepared to 'understand' what this message 'means' for it, it can be a killing cell. So, the problem is how to make a difference between different 'forms' in this messaging process. As far as I know, this is imporant for instance for interpreting cancer processes and in many other cases too. So, the paradigm shift in biology presupposes not only change in the modern concept of information but at the same time a reappraisal of the ontological concept of 'giving form', this 'giving' being now a 'messaging'. Sorry, for this long mail. Many issues remain unclear (to me). best Rafael Dear Rafael, I am sure you were right in what is communicated between a sender and a receiver is NOT information but a MESSAGE, I can provide you more supports from Biology. Between two nerve cells, between gland cell and target cell, it is MESSENGERS but not others which carry MESSAGE from sender to receiver, this is the situation in first messenger theory. In second messenger theory, not message or information, they call it SIGNAL. In computer science, DATA some time was adopted, such as Data Structure, Data Bank, Data Mining. No matter what happens, all message, signal etc. should recognize as a special usage of information. This is an interesting history in past related information explorations. But in modern science, such in semiochemistry, when talk about the effects of pheromones, allomones, kairomones, attractants, repellents, most Chemists like to use information rather then signal (or message). First and last, shall we consider INFORMATION as genus and MESSAGE, news, knowledge, etc. as its differentia? By the way, who knows who are the first people who called Shannon's Mathematical Theory of Communication as Information Theory? What time? Where? Best wishes, Xueshan 20:45, January 13, 2014 Peking University -Original Message- From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of fis-requ...@listas.unizar.es Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 6:45 PM To: fis@listas.unizar.es Subject: fis Digest, Vol 579, Issue 18 Send fis mailing list submissions to fis@listas.unizar.es To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to fis-requ...@listas.unizar.es You can reach the person managing the list at fis-ow...@listas.unizar.es When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of fis digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: Fw: Responses (Rafael Capurro) -- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2014 11:30:20 +0100 From: Rafael Capurro raf...@capurro.de Subject: Re: [Fis] Fw: Responses To: Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic gordana.dodig-crnko...@mdh.se, Hans von Baeyer henrikrit...@gmail.com,Joseph Brenner joe.bren...@bluewin.ch, fis fis@listas.unizar.es Message-ID: 52d11d3c.3040...@capurro.de Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dear Gordana, what is communicated between a sender and a receiver is NOT information but a MESSAGE And: the title of Shannon's paper is NOT theory of information but theory of communication There are too many misunderstandings in this discussion best Rafael Dear Hans, Joseph, Loet, All Loet: It seems to me that there is at least one alternative: Shannon's mathematical theory of information. Information is then defined as content-free. Gordana: There is a link between Shannon information and information for an agent (meaningful, semantic information).// What we call context-free is actually fixed context. In Shannon's case, information is that which is communicated between a sender and a receiver. That means we can look at the world as a complex system of agents within agents communicating Shannon information. This can be useful even in understanding of cognitive agents, if we define cognition broadly and accept that bacteria and any other kind of living being cognize -- that is use information that makes sense for them (has meaning first to survive in a direct individual contact with the environment, then through social cognition (for bacteria it is a colony which enables an individual organism to know about much bigger space and much longer time than one individual
Re: [Fis] FW: fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2
to 24 in Moscow. This time the Russian organizers have followed a singular procedure, a relatively closed conference centered in the diffusion of information science in the Russian scientific community. At the time being, to my knowledge (I could not follow very well the process), only the members of the ISIS board have been enlisted as foreign participants. But given that there will be several absences, interested FIS parties might ask about their possible participation. The schedule is too tight for travels, visas etc, and again I have to apologize for not having posted this info before (info glut!). In any case, am sure that our colleague Konstantin Kolin ( koli...@mail.ru ), leading organizer, and member of the Russian Academy of Science, will be happy to respond to interested parties and help them to accelerate the process. Best wishes to all ---Pedro - Pedro C. Marijuán Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA) Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X 50009 Zaragoza, Spain Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 ( 6818) pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ - ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://webmail.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/attachments/20130413/ d0 f2fc57/attachment-0001.htm -- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 12:28:45 +0200 From: Gyorgy Darvas darv...@iif.hu Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013) To: joe.bren...@bluewin.ch, pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es, fis@listas.unizar.es Message-ID: 201304131030.r3dauiat003...@ortiz.unizar.es Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://webmail.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/attachments/20130413/ 24 efe12f/attachment-0001.htm -- ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis End of fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2 *** ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis === Please find our Email Disclaimer here--: http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer === ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics (http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org) Distinguished Researcher at the African Centre of Excellence for Information Ethics (ACEIE), Department of Information Science, University of Pretoria, South Africa. Distinguished Researcher in Information Ethics, School of Information Studies, University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA President, International Center for Information Ethics (ICIE) (http://icie.zkm.de) Director, Steinbeis-Transfer-Institute Information Ethics (STI-IE) Editor in Chief, International Review of Information Ethics (IRIE) (http://www.i-r-i-e.net) Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany E-Mail: raf...@capurro.de Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21) Homepage: www.capurro.de ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] The world of singularities, beyond language - Discussion on INFORMATION THEORY--Karl
experience with this World disappearing and appearing again, changing, yet keeping basic structures time and time again. That is why we understand pre-Socratic philosophers/thinkers/poets, why we understand beautiful Octavio Paz El mono gramático and why we are able to make any sense at all, including the sense that it is not possible to make (usual) sense. With best wishes, Gordana *From:*fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] *On Behalf Of *Mark Burgin *Sent:* den 5 maj 2011 05:04 *To:* raf...@capurro.de; fis@listas.unizar.es *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Discussion on INFORMATION THEORY--Karl On 5/4/2011 3:56 AM, Rafael Capurro wrote: Dear Pedro you write: There is a large risk of becoming subjective, therefore unitelligible, if one leaves the foreground-background convention of the unified, standard, invariable against chaotic, unpredictable, varied. Is it really like this? or is it like this as seen from the perspective you give a priority by qualifying the other perspective as subjective? Is not not much more the case that what seems subjective is the primarily experience of the singularity of being in the world, this eery experience? The predominance of the common experience as described by you is what metaphysics (and later on science!) has been saying for centuries. Some days ago I sent this text to Joe that I forward it to the other FIS members Let me quote Octavio Paz El mono gramático (The grammatical monkey) (Mexico 1974, pp. 97-98; 100) first in Spanish then in a free (with a lot of mistakes!) English translation Por la escritura abolimos las cosas, las convertimos en sentido; por la lectura, abolimos los signos, apuramos el sentido y, casi inmediatamente, lo disipamos: el sentido vuelve al amasijo primordial. La arboleda no tiene nombre y estos árboles no son signos: son árboles. Son reales y son ilegibles. Aunque aludo a ellos cuando digo: /estos árboles son ilegibles/, ellos no se dan por aludidos. No dicen, no significan: están allí, nada más están. Yo lo puedo derribar, quemar, cortar, convertir en mástiles, sillas, barcos, casas, ceniza; puedo pintarlos, esculpirlos, describirlos, convertirlos en símbolos de esto o de aquellos (inclusive de ellos mismos) y hacer otra arboleda, real o imaginaria, con ellos; puedo clasificarlos, analizarlos, reducirlos a una formula química o a una proporción matemática y así traducirlos, convertirlos en lenguaje - pero /estos/ árboles, estos que senalo y que están más allá, siempre más allá, de mis signos y de mis palabras, intocables, inalcanzables , impenetrables, son lo que son y ningún nombre, ninguna combinación de signos los dice. Y son irrepetibles: nunca volverán a ser lo que ahora mismo son. [...] La noche me salva No podemos ver sin peligro de eloquecer: las cosas nos revelan, sin revelar nada y por su simple estar ahí frente a nosotros, el vacío de los nombres, la falta de mesura del mundo, su mudez esencial. Y a medida que la noche se acumula en mi ventana, yo siento que no soy de a quí, sino de allá, de ese mundo que acaba de borrarse y aguarda la resurrección del alba. De allá vengo, de allá venimos todos y allá hemos de volver. Fascinacion por el otro lado, seducción por la vertiente no humana del universo: perder el nombre, perder la medida. Cada individuo, cada cosa, cada instante: una realidad única, incomparable, inconmesurable. Volver al mundo de los nombres propios. With writing we abolish things, we transform them into meaning; through reading we abolish signs, we accelerate meaning and delete it almost immediately: meaning goes back to the primordial chaos. The small forest has no name, these trees are not signs, they are trees. They are real and one cannot read them. Even when I refer to them and say: 'these trees are not readable' they do not care about what I am saying. They say nothing, they do not mean anything: they are there, just there, nothing more. I can throw them down, burn them, cut them, turn them into masts, chairs, ships, houses, ash; I can paint them, carve them, describe them, turn them into symbols of this or that (including of themselves) and I can make another small forest, a real or an imaginary one. I can classify and analyze them, reduce them to a chemical formula or to a mathematical proportion and in this way translate them into lenguage - but /these /trees, that I now mean and that are beyond, always beyond my signs and words, untouchable, unreachable, impenetrable, are what they are and there is no name, no combination of signs that can say what they are. They are unrepeatable: they will never be again what they are right now. [...] Night brings deliverance to me. We cannot /see /without the danger of getting mad: things reveal themselves to us without revealing anything, just with their pure being there in front of us, the void of names, the lack of measure of the world, its essential
Re: [Fis] Discussion on INFORMATION THEORY--Karl
impressions to a common,
objective factor,
* it is good to have one common experience each one is subject to in an
equal fashion,
* the common experience is transcendental, invisible, eternal,
ubiquitous, egalising
To talk about diversity is to leave the common ground. It is
unquestionably more civilised to talk about the common, the unifying,
the objective. Therefore, there are huge communicational difficulties to
be expected, if one talks about that what is not always there, may be
very much varied, is not uniform. There is a large risk of becoming
subjective, therefore unitelligible, if one leaves the
foreground-background convention of the unified, standard, invariable
against chaotic, unpredictable, varied.
To overcome this communicational danger, the accountant has created a
Table on which one can demonstrate the relation between foreground and
background, that is, between similarity and diversity. Here, one can
observe, what you write, namely: Some things (the most interesting
ones) are partly similar to and partly different from others at the same
time, and the predominance of one can increase at the expense of the
other. Further, in the system of Stephane Lupasco (Principle of Dynamic
Opposition, up-dated in Logic in Reality), diversity, negativity,
inexactitude, vagueness, instability, etc. are given appropriate
ontological value vs. identity, stability, etc., their positive
partners.
Maybe in Varna we can get around to find a toy-maker who will produce
136 pairs of wooden blocks and we can spend a morning or afternoon
ordering (and re-ordering) these. Then, the meaning of the terms you
refer to can be explicated by deictic methods.
It is not the intellectual level needed that makes it complicated to use
a two- or three-dimensional concept of order. It is rather the
convention of not doing such because such is not done. Once one has
overcome the feeling of breaking taboos brings forth punishment one
can break the taboo of talking about what diversity is to be found in
the collection {1+16, 2+15, 3+14, ..8+9} which to our conventions is all
alike. After the fundamental break with cultural conventions has been
achieved and fully, internally accepted (like waging the crises of
adolescence and daring to talk back to Teacher /parents, authority, dear
leader, brother no. 1, etc./), it will be easy to extend this experiment
to the collection {1+1, ...,16+16}. Then, one can discuss, whether an
order on the red building blocks is more pleasing to the eye than an
order on the blue building blocks. After this, one may discover the
concept of a convoy, that is, of those pairs of buiding blocks that
have to move together during a reorder. From this point on, the
seduction will have worked and the participants of the workshop will
order and reorder like fallen angels.
There is a forbidden pleasure in paying attention to details no one
should pay attention to and disregard that what everybody is told to
look at. There are libraries about how not to behave like one should
behave. Some, like Robin Hood, Spartacus, Stauffenberg, and some others,
have a positive image. There are some others who are killed because they
are not so as they should be e.g. Giordano Bruno and some others. It is
not easy to leave the common understanding.
We can always pretend we investigate a problem of number theory,
category theory, information theory or so while we play with the
building blocks, if the System Stability Agency Special Forces take us
away in Varna for enhanced interrogations. In fact, we will have
overthrown the predominance of the Oneness over the Differences.
I do hope that these remarks will be helpful.
Karl
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--
Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro
Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany
Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics
(http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org)
Director, Steinbeis-Transfer-Institute Information Ethics (STI-IE), Karlsruhe,
Germany (http://sti-ie.de)
Distinguished Researcher in Information Ethics, School of Information Studies,
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA
President, International Center for Information Ethics (ICIE)
(http://icie.zkm.de)
Editor in Chief, International Review of Information Ethics (IRIE)
(http://www.i-r-i-e.net)
Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany
E-Mail: raf...@capurro.de
Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21)
Homepage: www.capurro.de
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Re: [Fis] ON INFORMATION THEORY--Mark Burgin
. (1999) Is a Unified Theory of Information Feasible? In /The Quest for a unified theory of information/, Proceedings of the 2^nd International Conference on the Foundations of Information Science, pp. 9-30 Hofkirchner, W. (Ed.) (1999) /The Quest for a Unified Theory of Information/, Proceedings of the Second International Conference on the Foundations of Information Science, Gordon and Breach Publ. Marijuán, P.C. (2009) The Advancement of Information Science, /Triple*C*/, v. 7(2), pp. 369-375 Shannon, C. E. (1993) /Collected Papers/, (N. J. A. Sloane and A. D. Wyner, Eds) IEEE Press, New York - ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics (http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org) Director, Steinbeis-Transfer-Institute Information Ethics (STI-IE), Karlsruhe, Germany (http://sti-ie.de) Distinguished Researcher in Information Ethics, School of Information Studies, University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA President, International Center for Information Ethics (ICIE) (http://icie.zkm.de) Editor in Chief, International Review of Information Ethics (IRIE) (http://www.i-r-i-e.net) Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany E-Mail: raf...@capurro.de Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21) Homepage: www.capurro.de ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] Fluc replies - more. Reply to Gordana
pervasive and reverberating up and down and from left to right and back. Now, pulling this back around to logic and Joseph Brenner. Dealing frankly with inconsistencies is paramount here. If our formalism of level is akin to Floridi's Levels of Abstraction, we will be missing something. (These LoAs are formalisms that capture things about the nature of abstraction, but capturing something in a formalism is not the same as illuminating it.) Joe's LIR is inconsistency-friendly which suggests that this is a meeting point with fluctuons perhaps? (I have run long, and will defer responding to Pedro's great new post on additional connections later.) -- Kevin P.S. As a side note, let me share my perplexity with the initial comment in Steven's post. Recursion is most frequently defined so that it has a bottom, thus ensuring finiteness, just as mathematical induction requires a base case, and just as standard set theory has an axiom of regularity (or foundation). Interesting things can be done with conceptually infinite recursion (e.g. fractal geometry), or non-well-founded set theory (e.g. Barwise's treatment of the liar paradox), but traditional well-founded recursion is, well, the foundation for computer science. _ Kevin G. Kirby Chair and Professor, Department of Computer Science Northern Kentucky University Highland Heights, KY 41099 ki...@nku.edu(859) 572-6544 ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics (http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org) Director, Steinbeis-Transfer-Institute Information Ethics (STI-IE), Karlsruhe, Germany (http://sti-ie.de) Distinguished Researcher in Information Ethics, School of Information Studies, University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA President, International Center for Information Ethics (ICIE) (http://icie.zkm.de) Editor in Chief, International Review of Information Ethics (IRIE) (http://www.i-r-i-e.net) Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany E-Mail: raf...@capurro.de Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21) Homepage: www.capurro.de ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] Curious chronicle
University of Florida | Email u...@cbl.umces.edu Gainesville, FL 32611-8525 USA | Web http://www.cbl.umces.edu/~ulan -- Quoting Jorge Navarro López jnavarro.i...@aragon.es: Dear FIS collegaes, Hi! This is my first posting in the list. My name is Jorge Navarro and I am working with Pedro on Systems Biology and Network Science. Following with Joseph proposal I have found an interesting paper about a satisfactory theory of information applicable to teamwork sports: *Quantifying the Performance of Individual Players in a Team Activity* http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0010937 I think that formally one can say a lot about what teamship activities become interesting and exciting to watch, and what other activities are dull and boring. I was playing soccer myself until a few years ago (forward), like Villa :-), and I am very interested in the informational side of sports, soccer of course. VIVA ESPAÑA!!! Kind Regards Jorge -- ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- - Pedro C. Marijuán Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Avda. Gómez Laguna, 25, Pl. 11ª 50009 Zaragoza, Spain Telf: 34 976 71 3526 ( 6818) Fax: 34 976 71 5554 pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ - ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany Director, Steinbeis-Transfer-Institute Information Ethics (STI-IE), Karlsruhe, Germany (http://sti-ie.de) Distinguished Researcher in Information Ethics, School of Information Studies, University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA President, International Center for Information Ethics (ICIE) (http://icie.zkm.de) Editor in Chief, International Review of Information Ethics (IRIE) (http://www.i-r-i-e.net) Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany E-Mail: raf...@capurro.de Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21) Homepage: www.capurro.de ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
[Fis] Season greetings and an info present
Dear Pedro and all, also best wishes to everybody from Karlsruhe. Let me offer you a small present that I created some thirty years ago. It is about 320 pages and it is written in German. You will find it here: http://www.capurro.de/info.html best Rafael -- Prof. Dr. Rafael Capurro Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Germany Director, Steinbeis-Transfer-Institute Information Ethics (STI-IE), Germany Information Ethics Senior Fellow, 2009-2010, Center for Information Policy Research, School of Information Studies, University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA Distinguished Researcher in Information Ethics, School of Information Studies, University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany E-Mail: raf...@capurro.de Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21) Homepage: www.capurro.de STI-IE: http://sti-ie.de ICIE: http://icie.zkm.de IRIE: http://www.i-r-i-e.net ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] Information as Asymmetry/valence negative and positive
I completely agree John, remembering also that Hermes is the messenger
of the gods and message containing information is the phenomenon with
a Janus-face since both sides (the sender and the receiver) are in a
heteronomic situation towards each other. best Rafael
Joseph,
You wrote: I feel my orginal question, about differences of kind or
valence of information has not been addressed
Your point about valence and the negative and positive faces of
information is an intriguing question. In a sense each time we use the
word itself we are invoking the Greek god of information, Hermes - the
deity of information, language, writing and messages but also of
deception, thieving and money. The information/misinformation
complementarity is unavoidable. A strictly verifactory account (like
Floridi's infosphere) ignores the Janus-like character of the
phenomenon in science society and mythology. This ambiguity has
persisted throughout the history of the concept as defined by the
major players (e.g. Aquinas's informed intellect (intellectus
agens/intellectus possibilis) Bacon's 'information of the
senses/information of the understanding' , Peirces' definition of
information as 'inferencing and imagination', the Shannon entropy
versus Norbert Wiener's negentropy). Spin, camouflage, theatre,
illusion seem to be an intrinsic component of informational experience.
We await the new discipline of Informational Anthropology to explore
what Soren Brier calls 'information man'. In fact we probably need a
whole new academy, an Infoversity (possibly run along the lines of the
European Graduate School), which explores information as central to
all the disciplines (rather than just as an extracurricular activity
of the cognoscenti).
I would certainly welcome a future FIS session on Information Language
and Communication where we could investigate these connections in a
more focused way. Bob Logan's excellent paper he circulated recently
might be a good starting point. Pedro?
Best
John H
*On Mon Nov 16 0:34 , Joseph Brenner sent:
*

Dear FIS Colleagues,
I hope that some of you, at least, are as interested as I am by
the shift in topic from Assymetry of Information to Information
as Assymetry that has taken place. As far as the latter is
concerned, I now know much more about the contribution of Leyton
and others, its historical development, etc.
However, despite some references to game theory and decision
theory, I feel my orginal question, about differences of kind or
valence of information has not been addressed. In real systems,
especially social systems, much of the information transferred is
not neutral, but comes in two main flavors, call them optimistic
and pessimistic if you prefer. (Both are real; John Collier's
questioning of the existence of negative information in
his sense is appropriate).
Perhaps this is a trivial distinction; perhaps its existence,
and its consequences, are not.
Thank you and best wishes,
Joseph
- Original Message -
*From:* Robert Morris
javascript:top.opencompose('robert_mor...@computermail.net','','','')
*To:* javascript:top.opencompose('fis@listas.unizar.es','','','')
*Sent:* Sunday, November 15, 2009 4:13 PM
*Subject:* [Fis] Inventor of Information as Asymmetry
It is absolutely the case that Michael Leyton invented the
concept of
information as asymmetry.
Furthermore, David Weiss is correct: Leyton's work has been
applied
by scientists in over 40 disciplines. His theorems are used
thousands
of times, each moment of the day, all across the world.
For example, Leyton's theorems are used in cardiac diagnosis,
biomedical engineering, metereology, chemical engineering,
mechanical aerospace design, geology, botany, etc.
Richard Morris
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Prof. Dr. Rafael Capurro
Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Germany
Director, Steinbeis-Transfer-Institute Information Ethics (STI-IE), Germany
Information Ethics Senior Fellow, 2009-2010, Center for Information Policy
Research, School of Information Studies, University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA
Distinguished Researcher in Information Ethics, School
Re: [Fis] Definition of Knowledge?
dear colleagues, greetigs from japan on knowledge that, than etc. please take a look at this contribution: http://www.capurro.de/skepsis.html kind regards rafael Dear FISers, I was asked several months ago, in the context of the Leon conference (BITrum interdisciplinary elucidation of the information concept, last June) to participate in the definition of some info-related concepts. Knowledge was one of them (if I am not wrong). After some trials I have realized that the task is outside the bounds of my competence --except in a rather trivial, anthropomorphic sense, one gets caught in regressions almost inevitably... Maybe one has to take care simultaneously of the whole lot of basic characteristics pertaining to informational entities (concepts included...). Well, sorry to the Leon colleagues that I have failed to fulfill the compromise, but I think there is interesting discussion to be advanced behind it. best Pedro PS. We are starting the firs steps in the neurodynamic central theory proyect (NCT). Interested parties might have openings yet, contact Fivos Panetsos (fivos.panet...@opt.ucm.es) and me (marij...@unizar.es). -- - Pedro C. Marijuán Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Avda. Gómez Laguna, 25, Pl. 11ª 50009 Zaragoza. España / Spain Telf: 34 976 71 3526 ( 6818) Fax: 34 976 71 5554 pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es - ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- Prof. Dr. Rafael Capurro Hochschule der Medien (HdM) - Stuttgart Media University, Wolframstr. 32 70191 Stuttgart, Germany Private: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany E-Mail: raf...@capurro.de; capu...@hdm-stuttgart.de Voice Stuttgart: + 49 - 711 - 25706 - 182 Voice private: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21) Homepage: www.capurro.de Homepage ICIE: http://icie.zkm.de Homepage IRIE: http://www.i-r-i-e.net Information Ethics Senior Fellow, 2007-2008, Center for Information Policy Research, School of Information Studies, UW-Milwaukee, USA ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] FW: Denumerability of information (II)
Christophe I completely agree you. Interpretation is the key issue when talking i.e. interpreting... information. The concept of agent should be carefully analyzed. Then pragmatics (and not only Syntax and Semantics) becomes also a key issue, particularly in case of living agents when the outcomes are not deterministic. Rafael Dear all, Comments from Michel and Rafael bring up an aspect of the proposal that has perhaps been underestimated. It is the interpretation of information which generates its content, its meaning. From “Information in cells” to “information for cells” we precisely have the interpretating function where an agent creates meaning for its own usage. Different agents generate different meanings. And information in antennas is not for antennas as they contain no interpretating function. Can the paragraph “Semantics” cover this point? Perhaps, but I’m not sure that semantics for bioinformation is currently used. The concept of interpretation looks to me as key when talking about information in agents. If the proposal takes it into account from a different perspective, perhaps it would be worth expliciting it. Best regards Christophe Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 13:57:53 +0200 From: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es To: fis@listas.unizar.es Subject: [Fis] Denumerability of information (II) (message II, responses from Díaz Nafría and Rafael Capurro) -- Dear Michel: Thank you for your good remarks. I agree about both. Of course, data banks may be considered in the list. In any case, that list should be too long if it were exhaustive. That is to say, “…” concern to a much larger list that the enunciated one (and considering length I may say that there were only 1 character left to fulfil the “text of proposal” and we use them all). Anyway, data banks are certainly a relevant case so they will be mentioned in next submissions. About (2), I remember the controversy which arose from a question you stated in December –I think-. I also keep in mind the interesting answer from Rafael. I wrote him some remarks about the controversy. I will try to find them to give you my point of view about that interesting question. Grateful and cordial greetings, José María Díaz Nafría - Dear Michel and all, yes, the formulation there is information in cells... could be misleading as it means, IMO, there is information for cells or messages that cells are able to process as information, i.e., through a process of selection and integration in them according to their specific way of life. What is stored in data banks is in fact not information but potential information for a system capable of understanding or processing it. The question of numerability is one possible framework of interpretation which means particularly since modern science, that we think we understand something as far as we are able to interpret it as countable using particularly digital media. In the 19th century this framework was mainly related to matter (what is not material is not understandable). Of course different frameworks or (metaphysical) paradigms compete with each other unless they are viewed as the only true ones... And: they have consequences for society, politics etc. as we can see everyday kind regards Rafael ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis Votre correspondant a choisi Hotmail et profite d’un stockage quasiment illimité. Créez un compte Hotmail gratuitement ! http://www.windowslive.fr/hotmail/default.asp ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- Prof. Dr. Rafael Capurro Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Germany Steinbeis Hochschule Berlin (SHB), Germany Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany E-Mail: raf...@capurro.de Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21) Homepage: www.capurro.de STI-IE: http://sti-ie.de ICIE: http://icie.zkm.de IRIE: http://www.i-r-i-e.net Information Ethics Senior Fellow, 2009-2010, Center for Information Policy Research, School of Information Studies, UW-Milwaukee, USA ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] information(s)
Bob
maybe you would like to analyze this (metonymical) use of information in
Shakespeare's Coriolanus
(...) But reason with the fellow,
Before you punish him, where he heard this,
Lest you shall chance to whip your information,
And beat the messenger who bids beware
Of what is to be dreaded.
(Coriolanus, Act IV, Scene IV).
Here is/was my interpretation http://www.capurro.de/trita.htm
kind regards
Rafael
Hi Rafael - here is Chapter 2 - thanks for your interest and I hope
to have your feedback - Bob
On 9-Dec-08, at 10:09 AM, Rafael Capurro wrote:
Bob,
very exciting! please send me a copy of your book once it is printed.
The fact that in early English information was use in the plural
maybe means that only the processes were meant not the idea of
pieces of information. What is your impression (!) on this?
kind regards
Rafael
Hi FIS folks - You might be interested in the origin of the use of
the word information in English so I am transmitting an excerpt
from Chapter 2 of my new book What is Information? I would be happy
to send all of Chapt 2 off line to any member of the list
interested in receiving all of Chapt 2. Just email me off line
your request and I will send you a copy hoping for your feedback.
The general purpose of my What Is Information? project is to better
understand the nature of information which is more than a
collection of bits and more than Shannon's definition of
information which totally lacks the notion of meaning.
Hope to hear from some of you
Bob Logan
Origins of the Concept of Information
We begin our historic survey of the development of the concept of
information with its etymology. The English word information
according to the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) first appears in
the written record in 1386 by Chaucer: ?Whanne Melibee hadde herd
the grete skiles and resons of Dame Prudence, and hire wise
informacions and techynges.? The word is derived from Latin through
French by combining the word inform meaning giving a form to the
mind with the ending ?ation? denoting a noun of action. This
earliest definition refers to an item of training or molding of the
mind. The next notion of information, namely the communication of
knowledge appears shortly thereafter in 1450. ?Lydg. Burgh
Secrees 1695 Ferthere to geve the Enformacioun, Of mustard whyte
the seed is profitable.?
The notion of information as a something capable of storage in or
the transfer or communication to something inanimate and the notion
of information as a mathematically defined quantity do not arise
until the 20th century.
The OED cites two sources, which abstracted the concept of
information as something that could be conveyed or stored to an
inanimate object:
1937 Discovery Nov. 329/1 The whole difficulty resides in the
amount of definition in the [television] picture, or, as the
engineers put it, the amount of information to be transmitted in a
given time.
1944 Jrnl. Sci. Instrum. XXI. 133/2 Information is conveyed to the
machine by means of punched cards.
The OED cites the 1925 article of R. A. Fisher as the first
instance of the mathematization of information:
What we have spoken of as the intrinsic accuracy of an error curve
may equally be conceived as the amount of information in a single
observation belonging to such a distribution? If p is the
probability of an observation falling into any one class, the
amount of information in the sample is S{(?m/??)2/m} where m = np,
is the expectation in any one class [and ? is the parameter]
(Fisher 1925).
Another OED entry citing the early work of mathematizing
information is that of R. V. L. Hartley (1928, p. 540) ?What we
have done then is to take as our practical measure of information
the logarithm of the number of possible symbol sequences.? It is
interesting to note that the work of both Fisher and Hartley
foreshadow Shannon?s concept of information, which is nothing more
than the probability of a particular string of symbols independent
of their meaning.
On 9-Dec-08, at 4:11 AM, John Collier wrote:
At 04:35 PM 12/6/2008, Michel PETITJEAN wrote:
Hello FISers.
Recently, one of my colleagues attract my attention on the following
point.
In French, we often use information as a countable quantity,
so that we can write informations.
In English, it seems that it is unusual, if not incorrect, to do that.
(1) Please can some English native FISers give their opinion about
that ?
(2) Please can some FISers from non English-speaking countries tell us
how is the situation in their own language ?
Michel, folks,
I haven't seen anything on the specific philosophical grammar of
'information' in English yet, so I will add some remarks. In English
there are count nouns and mass nouns. Count nouns always take an
adjective, like a South African, the Pope, a bicycle, and have
Re: [Fis] information(s)
than Peters interprets because the sensory process of 'informatio' (or
informatio sensus) is not primarily (!) oriented towards intellectual
forms (as in case of animal sensation). Anyway there is at first sight
no parallel terminus technicus to our present informations in
(ancient) Greek. The Latin philosophers (and the Arab philosophers
before! particularly Averroes from which Albertus Magnus 'takes' the
term or adscribes it to him) are translating key texts of Plato and
Aristotle where the terms eidos idea or typos (and other terms)
appear.
Plato developped the theory of 'participation' (or methexis) and
Aristotle the one of abstraction ('aphairesis') of the forms of things
by sensory organs (and intellect) without the matter (aneu tes
hyles). Take a look at this article on Aristotle and Mathematics from
the Stanford Encyclopedia (part. Chapter 7)
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-mathematics/
One (at least) question remains open: which is the word/concept used in
Ancient Greek (and Latin) corresponding to our modern concept of
information(s)? My answer: it was the concept of message ('angelia' in
Greek and 'notitia' together with 'nuntiare/nuntius' in Latin). These
terms were (from our point of view) too Modern, so to speak, to
translate Platonic/Aristotelian philosophy. Or, to put it in other
words: how far can we interpret ancient Greek philosophy in
'informational' (or 'communicational') terms? how strong is the paradigm
change in case there is one? and how far are we creating a new kind of
philosophy of information by combining both traditions (that were
present in ancient 'informatio')? I talked shortly about this in the
León meeting (mentioned by Pedro). Here is my text (in Spanish)
http://www.capurro.de/leon.pdf
kind regards
Rafael
Hello FISers.
Recently, one of my colleagues attract my attention on the following point.
In French, we often use information as a countable quantity,
so that we can write informations.
In English, it seems that it is unusual, if not incorrect, to do that.
(1) Please can some English native FISers give their opinion about that ?
(2) Please can some FISers from non English-speaking countries tell us
how is the situation in their own language ?
Thank you very much.
Michel.
Michel Petitjean,
DSV/iBiTec-S/SB2SM (CNRS URA 2096), CEA Saclay, bat. 528,
91191 Gif-sur-Yvette Cedex, France.
Phone: +331 6908 4006 / Fax: +331 6908 4007
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://petitjeanmichel.free.fr/itoweb.petitjean.html
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Prof. Dr. Rafael Capurro
Hochschule der Medien (HdM) - Stuttgart Media University, Wolframstr. 32
70191 Stuttgart, Germany
Private: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Voice Stuttgart: + 49 - 711 - 25706 - 182
Voice private: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21)
Homepage: www.capurro.de
Homepage ICIE: http://icie.zkm.de
Homepage IRIE: http://www.i-r-i-e.net
Information Ethics Senior Fellow, 2007-2008; 2009-2010, Center for Information
Policy Research, School of Information Studies, UW-Milwaukee, USA
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Re: [Fis] The Fascination of Art
Gordana I can point to this lecture I gave in Milwaukee in May (also as video) http://www.capurro.de/wisconsin.html kind regards Rafael Dear colleagues, I wonder if you can recommend me sources - articles, books, presentations/iPods/videos of your own or otherwise that we could have as resource in the following course: http://www.idt.mdh.se/kurser/comphil/ in Computing and Philosophy (where computing is understood as information processing)- anything in Pphilosophy of information and computing would be interesting. Best wishes, Gordana http://www.idt.mdh.se/personal/gdc/ ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis -- Prof. Dr. Rafael Capurro Hochschule der Medien (HdM) - Stuttgart Media University, Wolframstr. 32 70191 Stuttgart, Germany Private: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice Stuttgart: + 49 - 711 - 25706 - 182 Voice private: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21) Homepage: www.capurro.de Homepage ICIE: http://icie.zkm.de Homepage IRIE: http://www.i-r-i-e.net Information Ethics Senior Fellow, 2007-2008; 2009-2010, Center for Information Policy Research, School of Information Studies, UW-Milwaukee, USA ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] list discussions
to believe. You seem to be arguing that anything we think we have learned beyond the raw data (0's and 1's) is just fantasy. Is that a fair approximation? I do think that structural order is ultimately a consequence of universal natural laws, so maybe our views are not as opposed as they seem. Regards, Guy on 5/23/08 10:32 AM, Steven Ericsson-Zenith at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Guy, Let us get the first question out of the way. What, exactly, do you mean by orderly? As you use it here you appear to mean there is manifest order and that changes to become another manifest order. This is not what I take the question Is nature orderly? to address. Is there order at all? What, exactly, is the ontological status of an ordered state? Is order merely the product of apprehension (perception)? For me, it is the case that perceived order is the product of apprehension alone; by which I mean things like ordinal and cardinal numbers have no ontological status beyond their apprehension (0 and 1 being the only numbers with an ontological status beyond apprehension). However, the above does not answer the question Is nature orderly? This question asks that we look beyond apprehension. Is the perceived order the product of an intrinsic order? Here I look for an ontology from primitive nature. In my case I will argue that natural laws are universal and that these address the question at hand. Nature is orderly if and only if natural laws are universal and derive as a consequence of primitive nature. The implication of there being no orderliness, by this definition, is that natural laws are not universal and there is no primitive nature from which to derive them. With respect, Steven On May 23, 2008, at 9:50 AM, Guy A Hoelzer wrote: Greetings all, I, too, like the seed of this new discussion; although I recommend slight modifications of the question. Frankly, I think it is undeniable that there is a degree of orderliness, and a degree of disorder, in Nature. I also think we would all agree that Nature constantly constructs new order, even as it actively deconstructs other instances of orderliness. The timely questions in my mind include: To what degree is Nature orderly and how does this degree change over time? How can we best describe the dynamical turnover of order/disorder within Nature at large? Regards, Guy Hoelzer ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es http://webmail.unizar.es/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es http://webmail.unizar.es/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es http://webmail.unizar.es/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es http://webmail.unizar.es/mailman/listinfo/fis -- Prof. Dr. Rafael Capurro Hochschule der Medien (HdM) - Stuttgart Media University, Wolframstr. 32 70191 Stuttgart, Germany Private: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice Stuttgart: + 49 - 711 - 25706 - 182 Voice private: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21) Homepage: www.capurro.de Homepage ICIE: http://icie.zkm.de Homepage IRIE: http://www.i-r-i-e.net Information Ethics Senior Fellow, 2007-2008; 2009-2010, Center for Information Policy Research, School of Information Studies, UW-Milwaukee, USA ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es http://webmail.unizar.es/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] Physical Information
Dear Jerry and all, thanks for criticisms. Very shortly: exposing in a very simplified manner, the "two theories of information" does not contradict, in my opinion, your theory of the emergence of several levels of phenomena. It is "just" another more analytical (than genealogical) perspective. My intention was to see how far the phenomenon of communication (as "message exchange") in the complex human world *reflects* back into our theories and observations at the very *material* level (and at the levels in between), instead of taking the usual path (from the bottom to the top). What I wanted to say is, that the view of natural processes as communication processes is non-aristotelian and modern (maybe post-modern). kind regards Rafael ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es http://webmail.unizar.es/mailman/listinfo/fis
