Re: [Fis] Logarithm

2018-06-03 Thread Karl Javorszky
For establishing the upper limit of the maximal number of commutative groups on sets, the logarithm well pictures the decreasing probabilities of finding a new constellation of symbols, by the ever increasing number of factors in the divisor. Hans von Baeyer schrieb am So., 3. Juni 2018 21:53:

Re: [Fis] [FIS] Is information physical?

2018-05-11 Thread Karl Javorszky
Dear Arturo, There were some reports in clinical psychology, about 30 years ago, that relate to the question whether a machine can pretend to be a therapist. That was the time as computers could newly be used in an interactive fashion, and the Rogers techniques were a current discovery. (Rogers

Re: [Fis] Are there 3 kinds of motions in physics and biology?

2018-05-07 Thread Karl Javorszky
Dear Michel and Sung, Your discussion is way above my head in the jargon and background knowledge. Please bear with me while a non-mathematician tries to express some observations that regard symmetry. Two almost symmetrical spaces appear as Gestalts, expressed by numbers, if one orders and

Re: [Fis] Fw: The 'Shirasawa phenomenon' or the 'Shirasawa effect"

2018-05-06 Thread Karl Javorszky
n A and B adds up to make the whole (e.g., > the forest-tree pair), and (ii) complementarity wherein A or B is the > whole, depending on how the whole is observed (e.g., light as either wave > or particle depending on how it is measured). I can send you the reference > if needed. > &

Re: [Fis] Fw: The 'Shirasawa phenomenon' or the 'Shirasawa effect"

2018-05-04 Thread karl javorszky
Dear Sung, Very encouraging the discussion of the difficulties human perception poses while trying to consolidate opposites. The existence of the mental image is built on contrasts, so no wonder we find it hard to get a good grip on the mechanisms at work consolidating contradictions. To the

Re: [Fis] Is information physical? 'Signs rust.'

2018-04-27 Thread Karl Javorszky
This is a literary level exposition of a view, of the category of Confessiones. The confidence of a philosopher, like that of a poet, that his words can be understood, even though they are of a subjective, individual perspective, is well rewarded if indeed the worldview can be understood. Two

Re: [Fis] Is information physical?

2018-04-25 Thread Karl Javorszky
The question „Is information physical?” relates to the equivalence between two mental/emotional contents of the brain, and can be compared to “Is A = B ?” at first sight. In the form the question is posed, it is rendered in a more empathic fashion in the form “Does A contain a sufficiently large

Re: [Fis] Music : Noise = Meaning : Data

2018-03-24 Thread Karl Javorszky
;> The whole physicalness is indeed the arithmetic seen from the internal >> arithmetical beings, but the person attached to them are not arithmetical >> not even analytical (not even third person describable in any way). >> >> I am aware that what I say contradicts 150

Re: [Fis] Music : Noise = Meaning : Data

2018-03-19 Thread Karl Javorszky
Griffiths <dai.griffith...@gmail.com>: > On 15/03/18 10:11, Karl Javorszky wrote: > > >To me, it does not appear necessary to make a distinction between > “reality” and “data” > > That's a defensible position, but it does constrain 'reality' to 'that > which we can p

[Fis] Music : Noise = Meaning : Data

2018-03-15 Thread Karl Javorszky
Music : Noise = Meaning : Data Dear Friends, if one likes contemporary music, one is being well cared for in Vienna, specifically during the November festival “wien modern”. The concert cycle “klangforum wien” also introduces creative approaches to what is the state of the art in creating

Re: [Fis] Simple amswer: NOT!

2018-03-07 Thread Karl Javorszky
Dear Krassimir, Formalism is nice, but it can be unreasonable. Your example of 2 naked men on a beach can be made simpler by adding a dog, a sausage and a whistle. Person A (the dog's owner) sounds the whistle. The dog is apparently used to being fed and runs up, waging its tail. Can 1)

Re: [Fis] A Paradox

2018-02-26 Thread Karl Javorszky
Dear Xueshan, let us work thru your Armenia paradox. It says: " Suppose an earthquake occurred in Armenia last night and all of the main media of the world have given the report about it. On the second day, two students A and B are putting forward a dialogue facing the newspaper headline

Re: [Fis] What is the “mental model”?

2018-02-22 Thread Karl Javorszky
Dear Colleagues, Thank you for bringing up 3 main points of the discussion: 1)“ … the most represented position among FISers, i.e., that information is an objective, quantitative, physical measure linked to informational entropy” 2)"Information = data + something in and by

[Fis] Accounting and predictions : message and meaning

2018-02-15 Thread Karl Javorszky
Accounting is not a science There is an old joke about the mafia boss, who needs a new accountant. Proband 1 is asked: how much is 2+2? Answer: 4. Next candidate: How much is 2+2? Answer: anything between 3 and 5. No good. Next candidate, same question. Answer: whatever you wish, boss. He gets

[Fis] one can learn a lot from numbering every word

2018-02-11 Thread Karl Javorszky
Dear Krassimir, Improvements are done if there is a need to do so, innovations come about as a result of creativity, not as answers to an existing need, but as voluntary exertions that satisfy curiosity. Taking your example of having enumerated all signals (phonemes, letters, words), the

Re: [Fis] The unification of the theories of information based on the cateogry theory

2018-02-10 Thread Karl Javorszky
Using the logical language to understand Nature The discussion in this group refocuses on the meaning of the terms “symbol”, “signal”, “marker” and so forth. This is a very welcome development, because understanding the tools one uses is usually helpful when creating great works. There is

Re: [Fis] Summing up: New Year Lecture

2018-02-02 Thread Karl Javorszky
living beings as well as their biochemical > arrangements. > > https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0079610717302055 > > > > Il 1 febbraio 2018 alle 17.16 Karl Javorszky <karl.javors...@gmail.com> > ha scritto: > > Biodiversity and Cartography > &g

Re: [Fis] Summing up: New Year Lecture

2018-02-01 Thread Karl Javorszky
Biodiversity and Cartography The excellent summary by Pedro of the session just past highlights several different areas of processes, which appear to be interrelated at least in some methodological ways. Pedro says in effect: “… systems such as circulatory, pulmonary, renal, brain, etc. …”

Re: [Fis] I salute to Sungchul

2018-01-14 Thread Karl Javorszky
Dear Sungchul and Colleagues, Let me join the harmonious and musical – as Francesco has put it – concert among us, trying to understand and formalize our diverging concepts of what is information. Sungchul writes: “… DNA viewed as a set of linear sequences of genes …”. This we all agree on. We

Re: [Fis] New Year Lecture

2018-01-09 Thread Karl Javorszky
Dear Professor Torday, thank you for your insightful analysis of the complex system which is genetics. Your viewpoints cover from the molecular, cellular, physiological level up to that of cosmic changes affecting the whole of the Earth. Your work is truly a tour d’horizon of the subject.

Re: [Fis] Informatics of DNA (Sungchul Ji)

2017-11-29 Thread Karl Javorszky
using which the methods of producing differing more-dimensional commutative assemblies quasi-bijective to changes in sequences can be easily read off. The tool you may find practical for your further research is at your disposal, esteemed Professor. 2017-11-29 20:15 GMT+01:00 Karl Javorszky

[Fis] Happiness is a Tautology

2017-11-18 Thread Karl Javorszky
Happiness is a Tautology Dear friends, 1) Introduction There are very many aspects, levels, perspectives to a discussion that deserves its name. We all work on understanding a system of highly complex phenomena, which we call life. A part of it is, or it does, information, a part of it

[Fis] Wishful Thinking Reflected in the Sumerian Concept of Numbers

2017-11-17 Thread Karl Javorszky
Wishful Thinking Reflected in the Sumerian Concept of Numbers 1) Introduction To be better prepared to understand the roots of our numbering conventions, we have proposed to re-imagine the intellectual innovations achieved by the Sumerians, while they introduced the concept of positional

[Fis] The good old Sumerians and how we can improve on them

2017-11-06 Thread Karl Javorszky
*Properties of Places and of Objects* *We have seen in this chatroom that there is recognisance of the need to come up with something dramatically new and innovative in the field of information theory, but also, that having been educated in a specific fashion, it is not easy to think new

[Fis] Property of garden peas: mass

2017-10-23 Thread Karl Javorszky
1. Il figaro autobarbando The split between the role of the barber and the person of the barber can be massaged into a split between form and substance. Like roles are not additive, neither are forms. (A grandfather who is a neighbour are not 2 persons.) Like a person can be more (important,

Re: [Fis] Verification of the Principle of Information Science and the Definition of Information ON THE EXAMPLE OF GARDEN PEAS

2017-10-19 Thread Karl Javorszky
Dear Professor, your rightful indignation will be even deeper when you consider that the official important and valuable discussion among the most prominent and recognised eminent functionaries of highly respected institutions has been repeatedly disturbed by boring patterns of observations

[Fis] Properties and places of garden peas

2017-10-17 Thread Karl Javorszky
*INTRODUCTION* Data is that what we see by using the eyes. Information is that what we do not see by using the eyes, but we see by using the brain; because it is the background to that what we see by using the eyes. Data are the foreground, the text, which are put into a context by the

[Fis] Learn to Predict the Colour of Garden Peas in Twelve Easy Steps

2017-10-14 Thread Karl Javorszky
1. A historic parallel: a cultural handicap We are at Mendel again. There is an unmistakable parallel between a single person trying to drive attention of members of a learned society to general rules and principles that are discernible on multitudes of objects in the 19 th century and a

Re: [Fis] Data - Reflection - Information

2017-10-09 Thread Karl Javorszky
n. So, it should have the form component of the > object (syntactic information), the meaning component of the object > (semantic information), and the utility component of the object with > respect to the subject's goal (pragmatic information). Only at this stage, > the "meaning&qu

Re: [Fis] Data - Reflection - Information

2017-10-07 Thread Karl Javorszky
t; stage. > The perceived information is the information, perceive by the subject from > the object information. So, it should have the form component of the > object (syntactic information), the meaning component of the object > (semantic information), and the utility component of the object

[Fis] Information and data

2017-10-03 Thread Karl Javorszky
Well-informed vs. Well-dated Let me go into psychology on the distinction Krassimir raised. We have quite different associations on “She is a well-informed person” compared to “She is a well-dated person”. One wonders, whether the connotations of “even” and “odd” (in German: “gerade” and

[Fis] If "data = information", why we need both concepts?

2017-10-03 Thread Karl Javorszky
Dear Krassimir, Data is that what we see by using the eyes. Information is that what we do not see by using the eyes, but we see by using the brain; because it is the background to that what we see by using the eyes. Reminder: 3) Definition >From “Natural Orders”: 8.3.3.3 Information is

Re: [Fis] Principles of IS

2017-09-29 Thread Karl Javorszky
is farther away in the shade.) *Example:* Let us take 5 garden peas and order them according to any of their main properties: Case Nr. 1: Garden pea nr. First name Second name Place Main subject 1 Arturo Tozzi Italy Physics 2 Joe Brenner Zurich Logic 3 Karl Javorszky Vienna

Re: [Fis] INFORMATION: JUST A MATTER OF MATH

2017-09-23 Thread Karl Javorszky
discussing phlogiston and destiny, and spend time usefully by looking into relations among natural numbers. The time will certainly come when people will understand that science is not glamour. Hollywood is glamour. Science is numbers. Thanks to MDPI, a simple google entry “mdpi karl javorszky

Re: [Fis] non-living objects COULD NOT “exchange information”

2017-03-24 Thread Karl Javorszky
1) Let me second to the point Alex raises: machines, computers, do exchange information. It would be against cultural conventions to say that the notification that the refrigerator sends to your phone's app "to-do-list" of the content "milk only 0.5 liter available" is not an information. The

Re: [Fis] Fwd: Unpleasant answer ? From Bruno Marchal Request for Aid in Translation

2017-03-18 Thread Karl Javorszky
Google says Thank you, I will reply to your e-mail as soon as possible! Am 18.03.2017 18:40 schrieb "Jerry LR Chandler" : > FISers: > > In response to the message posted below, I received the following response > : > > liugang-...@cass.org.cn > > 谢谢,我将尽快答复你的电子邮件! > > In

[Fis] [FIS] Fis Digest, Vol 33, Issue 41: On the relation between information and meaning

2016-12-30 Thread Karl Javorszky
Gestalt Alex asks to contribute to his writing on Gestalt, based on Vedic teachings relating to how we memorise texts. Not knowing anything about the Vedic part of it, let me summarise what used to be accepted wisdom on Gestalt in psychology: this without any claim to completeness or

Re: [Fis] Fis Digest, Vol 33, Issue 41: On the relation between information and meaning

2016-12-24 Thread Karl Javorszky
Information and Wittgenstein We should keep the self-evident in focus and refrain from descending into a philosophical nihilism. We are, after all, reasonable people, who are able to use our intelligence while communicating, and usually we understand each other quite well. The idea, that

Re: [Fis] Fwd: Who may proof that consciousness is an Euclidean n-space ??? (Jerry Chandler)

2016-12-12 Thread Karl Javorszky
Explanations Thank you, Jerry, for pointing out the excellent treatise by Hempel & Oppenheim on the Logic of Explanation. As I understand their viewpoint, the ultimate explanation refers to a system of facts that are known to all who use that system in which the explanation is placed. The

[Fis] [FIS] NEW DISCUSSION SESSION--TOPOLOGICAL BRAIN

2016-12-07 Thread Karl Javorszky
Toposcopy Thank you for the excellent discussion on a central issue of epistemology. The assertion that topology is a primitive ancestor to mathematics needs to be clarified. The assertion maintains, that animals possess an ability of spatial orientation which they use intelligently. This

Re: [Fis] NEW DISCUSSION SESSION--TOPOLOGICAL BRAIN

2016-12-07 Thread Karl Javorszky
e patterns here referred to, it is necessary to order a collection and then order it some more until it becomes well-ordered, and watch the conflicts that are immanent to order, namely its alternatives and its background. This is simple, archaic and instructive. 2016-11-30 8:46 GMT+01:00 Karl

Re: [Fis] Fw: Is quantum information the basis of spacetime? Some New Theories

2016-11-15 Thread Karl Javorszky
Dear FIS, The noble conquest of choosing the right method of understanding information divides this learned society. Some argue that pre-Platonic approaches towards understanding Nature are pre-scientific and therefore can be dismissed out of hand. Let us imagine that the Neanderthals have

[Fis] FIS text testing spam filter

2016-11-12 Thread Karl Javorszky
Sorry for disturbing you with this test text. A lengthy response to Josph's statements in the discussion about Commutativity has not made it thru the spam filter. Maybe, next week it can be persuaded to obey its human masters. Nice weekend to you (if you read this) Karl

Re: [Fis] Commutativity

2016-11-07 Thread Karl Javorszky
to what > complex processes does your approach NOT apply? > > Thank you. > > Joseph > > > - Original Message - > *From:* Karl Javorszky <karl.javors...@gmail.com> > *To:* Joseph Brenner <joe.bren...@bluewin.ch> > *Cc:* Terrence Deacon <dea...@

Re: [Fis] Is quantum information the basis of spacetime?

2016-11-04 Thread Karl Javorszky
Well, Joseph, you don't have to go far to get the desired definition of information as an operator (produced quantity). The only prerequisite is to be ready to discard the practice, ideas, philosophy and ideology of the definitions relating to commutativity. This is heresy, I understand. On the

Re: [Fis] Fw: "Mechanical Information" in DNA

2016-06-10 Thread Karl Javorszky
Dear FIS, now there is a voice discussing the concepts and methods of counting. This is highly encouraging. Taking together with the overall theme of "Mechanical Information in DNA" of the discussion, it seems that - at least some of - members of FIS begin to address the quastions of HOW the

[Fis] Towards a 3φ integrative medicine

2016-05-17 Thread Karl Javorszky
Just a small detail on the information density of food (air, water, sensory input, etc.) in medicine: The DNA has a high informational value for the organism. Can it be said that poison has also an informational value? Can the de-constructive effect of a substance quantified based on the same

[Fis] _ Interlude: emotional shock

2016-03-31 Thread Karl Javorszky
In the present Interlude after the session chaired by Lou on Symmetry and before the coming one, allow me to enlarge on something Bruno raised. Bruno wrote: *Then this confirms the "computationalist theory of everything", which is given by any formalism, like Robinson Arithmetic (the rest

Re: [Fis] SYMMETRY & _ On BioLogic

2016-03-28 Thread Karl Javorszky
in time without observation is the structure > of this collection/superposition of possibilities. > It does not confuse possibility with actuality then the model has clarity. > Of course it is a mystery why this model works as well as it does! > Best, > Lou K. > > On Mar 26, 2016, at 1:

Re: [Fis] SYMMETRY & _ On BioLogic

2016-03-26 Thread Karl Javorszky
Dear Lou, Thanks for the invitation to elaborate on the concept of quantum and how it connects to Wittgenstein’s taboo words and information. We may have problems understanding the concept of a quantum because the idea appears to be non-expressible by rational, logical speech. The grammar of

Re: [Fis] SYMMETRY & _ On BioLogic

2016-03-25 Thread Karl Javorszky
Dear FIS Colleagues, 1. Are the facts complicated or is our interpretation of the facts complicated? again, the discussion centres on interpretations of Nature. How do we picture some processes of Nature – like, specifically, the workings of genetics and biology generally -, and which

[Fis] Numbers and information

2016-03-12 Thread Karl Javorszky
Gyuri Darvas' Symmetry Festival is a perfect place to exchange ideas about how the many aspects treated in FIS can be understood in a neutral and interpersonally portable manner. Pedro's department could give a second try modeling biological processes by observing groups that can be built on

Re: [Fis] Neuroinformation?

2014-12-03 Thread Karl Javorszky
Dear Dr. Isiegas, let me offer some proposals as to the underlying concepts that differentiate treatment of information in the technical and in the biologic understanding. The neuronal process is both sequential and commutative: commutative in the sense that chemical reactions take place

Re: [Fis] About weekly posting frequency.

2014-11-07 Thread Karl Javorszky
Dear Friends, the goal of our interactions is to a) Learn from each other, b) Instruct each other, c) Move forward the cause of science, d) Move forward the cause of one’s own, e) Feel good. Each of us is an individual, so there will be individual weights to the

Re: [Fis] The Travellers

2014-10-28 Thread Karl Javorszky
Very sympathetic on the concept of travelers is that the basic model is that of a dynamic system, as opposed to a Newtonian one, wherein everything stays put or keeps on continuing as having been instructed to do. For the bourgeois, the travelers have a connotation of mystery. They follow paths

Re: [Fis] next fis conference

2014-10-06 Thread Karl Javorszky
dear Wolfgang, as indicated here in the list some 2-3 months ago, I 'd like to organise a workshop. Its title would be: Explaining the Combinatorics behind the Translation of the Information Content of the DNA by using Advanced Arithmetic Would you please make it possible for participants to

[Fis] Fwd: Re: next fis conference

2014-10-06 Thread Karl Javorszky
november and then phase 2 is reserved for calls for papers and else. you might write a call for papers. ciao wolfgang Am 06.10.2014 um 16:20 schrieb Karl Javorszky karl.javors...@gmail.com: dear Wolfgang, as indicated here in the list some 2-3 months ago, I 'd like to organise a workshop. Its

Re: [Fis] Informational Bookkeeping

2014-09-08 Thread Karl Javorszky
The bookkeeping exactitude refers to the number and kind of logical alternatives. If the DNA is such-and-such, the cell cannot be outside the logical limits that are the accounting equivalents of such-and-such. If the cell is such-and-such, the DNA cannot be otherwise than in a form that is the

Re: [Fis] FIS in Varna. Analogue Computation

2014-07-22 Thread Karl Javorszky
Dear Colleagues, good that FIS is up again after this computer glitch. It is encouraging, that since the resurrection the focus of FIS appears to be sharpened. Let me quote Pridi: “… brainstorming session that would include pure researchers and application oriented guys … … business people

Re: [Fis] fis Digest, Vol 577, Issue 10; Joseph Reply to Jerry

2013-11-08 Thread Karl Javorszky
Individuality The abstract and the concrete fight, because the abstract cannot presently picture the concrete flexibly and exactly enough. Connecting to the main thema of this session, individuality can be used to clarify the tension. A person, belonging to many subgroups in his universe, is not

Re: [Fis] FIS News

2013-11-06 Thread Karl Javorszky
Dear FIS, welcome new colleagues. Pedro has over the years built a scientific community that is a pleasant and awakening environment for the participants. There has always been a tension between the empirical and the abstract in FIS. The name of the setup is Foundations of Information Science.

Re: [Fis] Praxotype

2013-10-15 Thread Karl Javorszky
Cointinuing Bob's discourse on language and words, the next step was done by Wittgenstein, who said that as tokens, words can be represented by numbers. This is a resurrecting of Pythagoras' statement, that Nature is representable by natural numbers and their harmonies. It is important to keep in

Re: [Fis] [ITHEA ISS] Computer Science Open Educational Resources Portal

2013-09-03 Thread Karl Javorszky
of nuomenon) can be seen as an inexhaustible source of possible phenomena. What do you think? Best regards, Gordana From: Karl Javorszky karl.javors...@gmail.com Reply-To: karl.javors...@gmail.com karl.javors...@gmail.com Date: Friday, August 30, 2013 11:26 AM To: Pedro C. Marijuan

[Fis] FIS Information and the Eye of the Beholder

2013-04-16 Thread Karl Javorszky
As Krassimir has pointed out, the term information is inseparable from the human utilising (communicating, sending/receiving/evaluating) the information. To say Information is that difference that makes a difference is like saying Cookies are what produce an excellent sensation in the mouth or

[Fis] Step Eleven of Twelve Easy Steps

2013-02-11 Thread Karl Javorszky
Step Eleven of* Learn to Count in Twelve Easy Steps* What has happened previously (pls. see http://32o2m99e.utawebhost.at) *Step Ten* The circumstances under which Genetics can take place are regulated by order rules that govern both places to [kinds of] amounts and [kinds of] amounts to

[Fis] Step Seven

2013-01-08 Thread Karl Javorszky
Step Seven of *Essay On Order* (formerly: Learn to Count in *Twelve Easy Steps*) What has happened previously: Step Six: During a reordering, elements change place. In most reorderings, the procedure involves more than one or two elements; these stay resp. exchange places directly. Usually,

Re: [Fis] FW: The Information Flow

2012-11-20 Thread Karl Javorszky
Step Two of *Learn to Count in Twelve Easy Steps* *What happened previously:* Step 1.: We have introduced additional describing aspects of the logical sentence a+b=c. Next to a,b,c, we also make use of u=b-a, k=b-2a, t=2b-3a, q=a-2b, s=17-(a+b|c), w=2a-3b. For a graphical presentation, see:

[Fis] THEORY AND SCIENCE - Msg from Bruno

2012-01-19 Thread Karl Javorszky
Bruno: Theories needs theories do be interpreted, except that we must start from simple agreements, on elementary arithmetic for example, to exploit that direction. End Bruno Begin Karl Also, we need an agreement what to concentrate on while the communication is made. We have agreed to use

Re: [Fis] The State of the Art - Discussion of Information Science Education

2011-12-12 Thread Karl Javorszky
Hi All, the talk here goi