Re: [Fis] I salute to Sungchul

2018-01-14 Thread Karl Javorszky
na-2015%2Fpaper%2F2842=02%7C01%7Csji%40pharmacy.rutgers.edu%7C89f81861ee684f05e46b08d559d86fe1%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C1%7C636513708497810284=bMlZ324OoEHA5XMQibKiEFsm75NhcpkfIcSRUJbQZNg%3D=0>
>>
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsciforum.net%2Fconference%2Fisis-summit-vienna-2015%2Fpaper%2F2842=02%7C01%7Csji%40pharmacy.rutgers.edu%7C89f81861ee684f05e46b08d559d86fe1%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C1%7C636513708497810284=bMlZ324OoEHA5XMQibKiEFsm75NhcpkfIcSRUJbQZNg%3D=0>
>> [2] Petoukhov, S. (2017).  Genetic coding and united-hypercomplex systems
>> in the models of algebraic biology.*BioSystems* *158*: 31-46.
>> [3] Petoukhov, S. (2016).  The system-resonance approach in
>> modeling genetic structures. *BiosySystems* *139*:1-11.
>>[4] Petoukhov, S. (2018). The rules of long DNA-sequences and
>> tetra-groups of oligonucleotides. arXiv:1709.04943v4 [q-bio.OT]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsciforum.net%2Fconference%2Fisis-summit-vienna-2015%2Fpaper%2F2842=02%7C01%7Csji%40pharmacy.rutgers.edu%7C89f81861ee684f05e46b08d559d86fe1%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C1%7C636513708497810284=bMlZ324OoEHA5XMQibKiEFsm75NhcpkfIcSRUJbQZNg%3D=0>
>>
>>
>>[4] Ji, S. (2017).*Neo-Semiotics*: Introducing Zeroness into Peircean
>> Semiotics May Bridge the Knowable and the Unknowable. *Prog. Biophys.
>> Mol. Biol*.  *131*:387-401. PDF at http://www.sciencedirect.co
>> m/science/article/pii/S0079610717300858?via%3Dihub
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedirect.com%2Fscience%2Farticle%2Fpii%2FS0079610717300858%3Fvia%253Dihub=02%7C01%7Csji%40pharmacy.rutgers.edu%7Cd3662883d79442bc279b08d55a45ef3e%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C1%7C636514178788801408=afKjg3GrB3JRHkESNqHxOOhhjn9C%2F9%2FuJAFx6OX7%2FVs%3D=0>
>>[5] Ji, S. (1997). Isomorphism between cell and human languages:
>> molecualr biological, bioinformatic and linguistic implications.
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.conformon.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F05%2FIsomorphism1.pdf=02%7C01%7Csji%40pharmacy.rutgers.edu%7Cd3662883d79442bc279b08d55a45ef3e%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C1%7C636514178788801408=RaGj9cNFqT4nLwPh%2BllpEgryPeou9Dm%2F6MZGEOXqA18%3D=0>
>> *BioSystems* 44:17-39.  PDF at http://www.conformon.net/wp
>> -content/uploads/2012/05/Isomorphism1.pdf
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.conformon.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F05%2FIsomorphism1.pdf=02%7C01%7Csji%40pharmacy.rutgers.edu%7Cd3662883d79442bc279b08d55a45ef3e%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C1%7C636514178788801408=RaGj9cNFqT4nLwPh%2BllpEgryPeou9Dm%2F6MZGEOXqA18%3D=0>
>>
>> [6] Ji, S. (2017).  The Cell Language Theory: Connecting Mind and
>> Matter.  World Scientific, New Jersey.  Chapter 5*. *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From:* Alex Hankey <alexhan...@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 13, 2018 12:24 AM
>> *To:* Sungchul Ji
>> *Cc:* Emanuel Diamant; fis@listas.unizar.es
>> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] I salute to Sungchul
>>
>> And what about the Kinds of Information that you cannot put in a data
>> set?
>> The information that makes you turn your head and meet the gaze of
>> someone staring at you.
>> No one could do that, which we humans and all animals do constantly,
>> unless we had received such information at a subliminal level in the
>> brain.
>> We all have that capacity, it is vital for survival in the wild. All
>> animals do it.
>> The 'Sense of Being Stared At' is a common experience for most animals,
>> how far down the tree of life no one yet knows.
>>
>> Whatever triggers it is definitely 'A Difference that Makes a
>> Difference',
>> so fits in your definition of 'Meaningful Information' - it has to!
>> BUT IT CANNOT BE DIGITAL INFORMATION.
>> Please Face Up to This Fact.
>>
>> All best wishes,
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>
>> On 13 January 2018 at 07:30, Sungchul Ji <s...@pharmacy.rutgers.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Emmanuel and FISers,
>>
>>
>> Thank you, Emmanuel, for your generous remarks.  It is heartening to know
>> that our ideas converge, although we carried out our research independently
>> of each other, a clear example of consilience.
>>
>>
>> (*1*)  I like and agree with the Kolomogorov quote you cited in [1]:
>>
>>
>> "*Information is a li

Re: [Fis] I salute to Sungchul

2018-01-13 Thread Francesco Rizzo
t;
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsciforum.net%2Fconference%2Fisis-summit-vienna-2015%2Fpaper%2F2842=02%7C01%7Csji%40pharmacy.rutgers.edu%7C89f81861ee684f05e46b08d559d86fe1%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C1%7C636513708497810284=bMlZ324OoEHA5XMQibKiEFsm75NhcpkfIcSRUJbQZNg%3D=0>
>
>
>[4] Ji, S. (2017).*Neo-Semiotics*: Introducing Zeroness into Peircean
> Semiotics May Bridge the Knowable and the Unknowable. *Prog. Biophys.
> Mol. Biol*.  *131*:387-401. PDF at http://www.sciencedirect.co
> m/science/article/pii/S0079610717300858?via%3Dihub
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedirect.com%2Fscience%2Farticle%2Fpii%2FS0079610717300858%3Fvia%253Dihub=02%7C01%7Csji%40pharmacy.rutgers.edu%7Cd3662883d79442bc279b08d55a45ef3e%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C1%7C636514178788801408=afKjg3GrB3JRHkESNqHxOOhhjn9C%2F9%2FuJAFx6OX7%2FVs%3D=0>
>[5] Ji, S. (1997). Isomorphism between cell and human languages:
> molecualr biological, bioinformatic and linguistic implications.
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.conformon.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F05%2FIsomorphism1.pdf=02%7C01%7Csji%40pharmacy.rutgers.edu%7Cd3662883d79442bc279b08d55a45ef3e%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C1%7C636514178788801408=RaGj9cNFqT4nLwPh%2BllpEgryPeou9Dm%2F6MZGEOXqA18%3D=0>
> *BioSystems* 44:17-39.  PDF at http://www.conformon.net/wp
> -content/uploads/2012/05/Isomorphism1.pdf
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.conformon.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F05%2FIsomorphism1.pdf=02%7C01%7Csji%40pharmacy.rutgers.edu%7Cd3662883d79442bc279b08d55a45ef3e%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C1%7C636514178788801408=RaGj9cNFqT4nLwPh%2BllpEgryPeou9Dm%2F6MZGEOXqA18%3D=0>
>
> [6] Ji, S. (2017).  The Cell Language Theory: Connecting Mind and
> Matter.  World Scientific, New Jersey.  Chapter 5*. *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *From:* Alex Hankey <alexhan...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 13, 2018 12:24 AM
> *To:* Sungchul Ji
> *Cc:* Emanuel Diamant; fis@listas.unizar.es
> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] I salute to Sungchul
>
> And what about the Kinds of Information that you cannot put in a data
> set?
> The information that makes you turn your head and meet the gaze of someone
> staring at you.
> No one could do that, which we humans and all animals do constantly,
> unless we had received such information at a subliminal level in the
> brain.
> We all have that capacity, it is vital for survival in the wild. All
> animals do it.
> The 'Sense of Being Stared At' is a common experience for most animals,
> how far down the tree of life no one yet knows.
>
> Whatever triggers it is definitely 'A Difference that Makes a Difference',
> so fits in your definition of 'Meaningful Information' - it has to!
> BUT IT CANNOT BE DIGITAL INFORMATION.
> Please Face Up to This Fact.
>
> All best wishes,
>
> Alex
>
>
> On 13 January 2018 at 07:30, Sungchul Ji <s...@pharmacy.rutgers.edu> wrote:
>
> Hi Emmanuel and FISers,
>
>
> Thank you, Emmanuel, for your generous remarks.  It is heartening to know
> that our ideas converge, although we carried out our research independently
> of each other, a clear example of consilience.
>
>
> (*1*)  I like and agree with the Kolomogorov quote you cited in [1]:
>
>
> "*Information is a linguistic description of structures in a given data
> set.*"
>
>
> It seems to me that there are 4 key concepts embedded in the above quote,
> which we may view as the definition of what may be called the "Komogorov
> information" or the "Kolmogorov-Bateson information" for  the
> convenience of reference:
>
> *i*)   data set (e.g., ACAGTCAACGGTCCAA)
> *ii*)  linguistic description (e.g., Threonine, Valine, Asparagine,
> Glycine)
> *iii*) structure (e.g., 16 mononucdotide, 8 dinucldotides, 5
> trinucleotides plus 1)
> *iv*) mathematical description (e.g., tensor product of two 2x2 matrices
> of 4 nucleotides) [2, 3].
>
> The first three elements are obvious, but the 4th is not so obvious but
> justified in view of the recent work of Petoukhov [2, 3].
>
> (*2*) Based on these ideas, I have constructed *Table 1* below of the
> various names applied to the two kinds of information which I described as
> I(-) and I(+) in my previous post.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Table 1.  *The *arbitrariness* of the signs referring to ‘information’.
> It doesn’t matter what you call it, as long as your chosen label refers to
> the right reality, thing, process, mechanisms, etc.
>
> 1
>
> Type I Information
>
> Typ

Re: [Fis] I salute to Sungchul

2018-01-13 Thread Sungchul Ji
guages: molecualr 
biological, bioinformatic and linguistic implications. 
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.conformon.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F05%2FIsomorphism1.pdf=02%7C01%7Csji%40pharmacy.rutgers.edu%7Cd3662883d79442bc279b08d55a45ef3e%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C1%7C636514178788801408=RaGj9cNFqT4nLwPh%2BllpEgryPeou9Dm%2F6MZGEOXqA18%3D=0>
 BioSystems 44:17-39.  PDF at 
http://www.conformon.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Isomorphism1.pdf<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.conformon.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F05%2FIsomorphism1.pdf=02%7C01%7Csji%40pharmacy.rutgers.edu%7Cd3662883d79442bc279b08d55a45ef3e%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C1%7C636514178788801408=RaGj9cNFqT4nLwPh%2BllpEgryPeou9Dm%2F6MZGEOXqA18%3D=0>

[6] Ji, S. (2017).  The Cell Language Theory: Connecting Mind and Matter.  
World Scientific, New Jersey.  Chapter 5.









From: Alex Hankey <alexhan...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2018 12:24 AM
To: Sungchul Ji
Cc: Emanuel Diamant; fis@listas.unizar.es
Subject: Re: [Fis] I salute to Sungchul

And what about the Kinds of Information that you cannot put in a data set?
The information that makes you turn your head and meet the gaze of someone 
staring at you.
No one could do that, which we humans and all animals do constantly,
unless we had received such information at a subliminal level in the brain.
We all have that capacity, it is vital for survival in the wild. All animals do 
it.
The 'Sense of Being Stared At' is a common experience for most animals,
how far down the tree of life no one yet knows.

Whatever triggers it is definitely 'A Difference that Makes a Difference',
so fits in your definition of 'Meaningful Information' - it has to!
BUT IT CANNOT BE DIGITAL INFORMATION.
Please Face Up to This Fact.

All best wishes,

Alex


On 13 January 2018 at 07:30, Sungchul Ji 
<s...@pharmacy.rutgers.edu<mailto:s...@pharmacy.rutgers.edu>> wrote:

Hi Emmanuel and FISers,


Thank you, Emmanuel, for your generous remarks.  It is heartening to know that 
our ideas converge, although we carried out our research independently of each 
other, a clear example of consilience.


(1)  I like and agree with the Kolomogorov quote you cited in [1]:


"Information is a linguistic description of structures in a given data set."

It seems to me that there are 4 key concepts embedded in the above quote, which 
we may view as the definition of what may be called the "Komogorov information" 
or the "Kolmogorov-Bateson information" for  the convenience of reference:

i)   data set (e.g., ACAGTCAACGGTCCAA)
ii)  linguistic description (e.g., Threonine, Valine, Asparagine, Glycine)
iii) structure (e.g., 16 mononucdotide, 8 dinucldotides, 5 trinucleotides plus 
1)
iv) mathematical description (e.g., tensor product of two 2x2 matrices of 4 
nucleotides) [2, 3].

The first three elements are obvious, but the 4th is not so obvious but 
justified in view of the recent work of Petoukhov [2, 3].

(2) Based on these ideas, I have constructed Table 1 below of the various names 
applied to the two kinds of information which I described as I(-) and I(+) in 
my previous post.







Table 1.  The arbitrariness of the signs referring to ‘information’. It doesn’t 
matter what you call it, as long as your chosen label refers to the right 
reality, thing, process, mechanisms, etc.


1


Type I Information


Type II information


2


Physical Information


Sematic information


3


Shannon information


Kolmogorov information, or

Kolmogorov-Bateson information


4


‘Meaningless’ information


‘Meaningful’ information


5


I(-) information, or simply I(-)


I(+) information, or simply I(+)


6


Quantitative information


Qualitative information


7


Mathematical information


Linguistic information (see Statement (1))


8


Formal information


Phenomenological information


9


Interpretant-less sign [4]


Triadic sign [4]




(3)  One practical application of the dual theory of information under 
discussion is in deducing the structure of cell language, or the structure of 
the linguistics of DNA, in a much more rigorous manner than was possible in 
1997 [5].

   It is the common practice in biology to use the terms "letters", "words", 
"sentences", and "texts" without any rigorous definitions.  The general rule is 
to follow the rules of concatenations used in linguistics literally and say that

i) just as 26 letters in the English alphabet are combined to form words (the 
process being called the second articulation [5]), so the 4 letters of the 
genetic alphabets, A, C, G and T/U,  combine in triplets to form genetic 
codons.  Similarly, just as words form sentences and sentences form texts by 
the same concatenation procedure (or tensor multiplication, mathematically 
speaking , i.e, l

Re: [Fis] I salute to Sungchul

2018-01-13 Thread Terrence W. DEACON
t; organization, each level characterized by a unique function (see the second
>> column).  Without presenting any detailed argument, I just wish to suggest
>> that the linguistic structures deduced based on the semantic information
>> theory (i.e., the fifth column) agree with the human linguistic structures
>> (i.e., the second column) better than does the linguistic structures based
>> on the physical/mathematical/quantitative information theory (i.e., the
>> fourth column), when the functional hierarchy given in the third column is
>> taken into account.
>>
>>
>> *Table 2.  *Two versions of the linguistics of DNA based on (i) the
>> physical information theory, and (ii) the semantic information theory [1].
>> M stands for a 2x2 matrix whose elements are the 4 genetic nucleotides, A,
>> C, G and T/U, i.e., M = [C A; T G] (see Figure 16 in [2]). The symbol, (x),
>> indicates tensor multiplication [2, 3].  The I to II transition is known in
>> linguistics as the second articulation; the II to III transition as the first
>> articulation [4]; the III to IV transition was referred to as the third
>> articulation [5].
>>
>> Organization  level
>>
>> *Human Language*
>>
>> *Cell Language*
>>
>>
>>
>> *Structure*
>>
>> *Function/Semantics*
>>
>> *Structure based on the Physical Information Theory (PIT) *[1]
>>
>> *Structure based on the Semantic Information Theory (SIT) *[1]
>>
>> I
>>
>> Letters
>>
>> Basic building
>>
>> blocks or basic physical signals
>>
>> 4 Nucleotides (A, C, G, T/U);
>>
>> M = [C A;T G]*
>>
>> mono-, di-, trinucleotides, 4-plets, 5-plets, . . . , n-plets of
>> nucleotides,  . . .
>>
>> II
>>
>> Words
>>
>> To denote
>>
>> 16 dinucleotides;
>>
>> M(x)M or M^2
>>
>> Any combinations of the n-plets/ genes/proteins
>>
>> III
>>
>> Sentences
>>
>> To decide
>>
>> 64 trinucleotides /amino acids;
>> M(x)M(x)M or M^3
>>
>>
>>
>> Assembly of  genes/proteins; or metabolic pathways (MP)
>>
>> IV
>>
>> Texts
>>
>> To argue/compute/
>>
>> reason (e.g., syllogism)
>>
>> 254 tetranucleotides;
>>
>> Metabolic pathways (?); M(x)M(x)M(x)M or M^4
>>
>> Networks of MP’s
>>
>> characterized by a unique function (see the second column).  Without
>> presenting any detailed argument, I would like to suggest that the
>> linguistic structures deduced based on the semantic information theory
>> (i.e., the fifth column) agree with the human linguistic structures
>> (i.e., the second column) better than does the linguistic structures
>> based on the physical/mathematical/quantitative information theory
>> (i.e., the fourth column).
>> In other words, the structure of cell language deduced based on the
>> semantic information theory agrees better, functionally, with that of the
>> human language than the structure of cell language deduced based on the
>> physical information theory, thus further supporting the 1997 postulate
>> that cell and human languages are isomorphic [5, 6].
>>
>> If you have any questions or suggestions for improvements on the above
>> tables, I would appreciate hearing from you.
>>
>> All the best.
>>
>> Sung
>>
>> References:
>>[1] Emanuel Diamant, *The brain is processing information, not data.
>> Does anybody care?, *ISIS Summit Vienna 2015, Extended Abstract.
>> http://sciforum.net/conference/isis-summit-vienna-2015/paper/2842
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsciforum.net%2Fconference%2Fisis-summit-vienna-2015%2Fpaper%2F2842=02%7C01%7Csji%40pharmacy.rutgers.edu%7C89f81861ee684f05e46b08d559d86fe1%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C1%7C636513708497810284=bMlZ324OoEHA5XMQibKiEFsm75NhcpkfIcSRUJbQZNg%3D=0>
>>   [2] Petoukhov, S. (2017).  Genetic coding and united-hypercomplex
>> systems in the models of algebraic biology. *BioSystems* *158*: 31-46.
>>
>>
>>   [3] Petoukhov, S. (2016).  The system-resonance approach in modeling
>> genetic
>> structures. *BiosySystems* *139*:1-11.
>>
>>[4] Ji, S. (2017).*Neo-Semiotics*: Introducing Zeroness into Peircean
>> Semiotics May Bridge the Knowable and the Unknowable. *Prog. Biophys.
>> Mol. Biol*.  *131*:387-401. PDF at http://www.sciencedirect.co
>> m/science/article/pii/S0079610717300858?via%3Dihub
>>[5] Ji, S. (1997). Isomorphism between cell and human languages:
&

Re: [Fis] I salute to Sungchul

2018-01-12 Thread Alex Hankey
36513708497810284=bMlZ324OoEHA5XMQibKiEFsm75NhcpkfIcSRUJbQZNg%3D=0>
>   [2] Petoukhov, S. (2017).  Genetic coding and united-hypercomplex
> systems in the models of algebraic biology. *BioSystems* *158*: 31-46.
>
>
>   [3] Petoukhov, S. (2016).  The system-resonance approach in modeling
> genetic
> structures. *BiosySystems* *139*:1-11.
>
>[4] Ji, S. (2017).*Neo-Semiotics*: Introducing Zeroness into Peircean
> Semiotics May Bridge the Knowable and the Unknowable. *Prog. Biophys.
> Mol. Biol*.  *131*:387-401. PDF at http://www.sciencedirect.
> com/science/article/pii/S0079610717300858?via%3Dihub
>[5] Ji, S. (1997). Isomorphism between cell and human languages:
> molecualr biological, bioinformatic and linguistic implications.
> <http://www.conformon.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Isomorphism1.pdf>
> *BioSystems* 44:17-39.  PDF at http://www.conformon.net/
> wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Isomorphism1.pdf
>
> [6] Ji, S. (2017).  The Cell Language Theory: Connecting Mind and
> Matter.  World Scientific, New Jersey.  Chapter 5*. *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *From:* Fis <fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Emanuel Diamant <
> emanl@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 11:20 AM
> *To:* fis@listas.unizar.es
> *Subject:* [Fis] I salute to Sungchul
>
>
> Dear FISers,
>
>
>
> I would like to express my pleasure with the current state of our
> discourse – an evident attempt to reach a more common understanding about
> information issues and to enrich preliminary given assessments.
>
> In this regard, I would like to add my comment to Sungchul’s post of
> January 12, 2018.
>
>
>
> Sungchul proposes “to recognize two distinct types of information which,
> for the lack of better terms, may be referred to as the "meaningless
> information" or I(-)  and "meaningful information" or I(+)”.
>
> That is exactly what I am trying to put forward for years, albeit under
> more historically rooted names: Physical and Semantic information [1].
> Never mind, what is crucially important here is that the duality of
> information becomes publicly recognized and accepted by FIS community.
>
>
>
> I salute to Sungchul’s suggestion!
>
>
>
> Best regards, Emanuel.
>
>
>
> [1] Emanuel Diamant, *The brain is processing information, not data. Does
> anybody care?, *ISIS Summit Vienna 2015, Extended Abstract.
> http://sciforum.net/conference/isis-summit-vienna-2015/paper/2842
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsciforum.net%2Fconference%2Fisis-summit-vienna-2015%2Fpaper%2F2842=02%7C01%7Csji%40pharmacy.rutgers.edu%7C89f81861ee684f05e46b08d559d86fe1%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C1%7C636513708497810284=bMlZ324OoEHA5XMQibKiEFsm75NhcpkfIcSRUJbQZNg%3D=0>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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-- 
Alex Hankey M.A. (Cantab.) PhD (M.I.T.)
Distinguished Professor of Yoga and Physical Science,
SVYASA, Eknath Bhavan, 19 Gavipuram Circle
Bangalore 560019, Karnataka, India
Mobile (Intn'l): +44 7710 534195
Mobile (India) +91 900 800 8789


2015 JPBMB Special Issue on Integral Biomathics: Life Sciences, Mathematics
and Phenomenological Philosophy
<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/00796107/119/3>
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Re: [Fis] I salute to Sungchul

2018-01-12 Thread Sungchul Ji
 (i.e., the 
second column) better than does the linguistic structures based on the 
physical/mathematical/quantitative information theory (i.e., the fourth 
column), when the functional hierarchy given in the third column is taken into 
account.


Table 2.  Two versions of the linguistics of DNA based on (i) the physical 
information theory, and (ii) the semantic information theory [1]. M stands for 
a 2x2 matrix whose elements are the 4 genetic nucleotides, A, C, G and T/U, 
i.e., M = [C A; T G] (see Figure 16 in [2]). The symbol, (x), indicates tensor 
multiplication [2, 3].  The I to II transition is known in linguistics as the 
second articulation; the II to III transition as the first articulation [4]; 
the III to IV transition was referred to as the third articulation [5].

Organization  level

Human Language

Cell Language



Structure

Function/Semantics

Structure based on the Physical Information Theory (PIT) [1]

Structure based on the Semantic Information Theory (SIT) [1]

I

Letters

Basic building
blocks or basic physical signals

4 Nucleotides (A, C, G, T/U);
M = [C A;T G]*

mono-, di-, trinucleotides, 4-plets, 5-plets, . . . , n-plets of nucleotides,  
. . .

II

Words

To denote

16 dinucleotides;
M(x)M or M^2

Any combinations of the n-plets/ genes/proteins

III

Sentences

To decide

64 trinucleotides /amino acids;
M(x)M(x)M or M^3


Assembly of  genes/proteins; or metabolic pathways (MP)

IV

Texts

To argue/compute/
reason (e.g., syllogism)

254 tetranucleotides;
Metabolic pathways (?); M(x)M(x)M(x)M or M^4

Networks of MP’s


characterized by a unique function (see the second column).  Without presenting 
any detailed argument, I would like to suggest that the linguistic structures 
deduced based on the semantic information theory (i.e., the fifth column) agree 
with the human linguistic structures (i.e., the second column) better than does 
the linguistic structures based on the physical/mathematical/quantitative 
information theory (i.e., the fourth column).
In other words, the structure of cell language deduced based on the semantic 
information theory agrees better, functionally, with that of the human language 
than the structure of cell language deduced based on the physical information 
theory, thus further supporting the 1997 postulate that cell and human 
languages are isomorphic [5, 6].

If you have any questions or suggestions for improvements on the above tables, 
I would appreciate hearing from you.

All the best.

Sung

References:
   [1] Emanuel Diamant, The brain is processing information, not data. Does 
anybody care?, ISIS Summit Vienna 2015, Extended Abstract. 
http://sciforum.net/conference/isis-summit-vienna-2015/paper/2842<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsciforum.net%2Fconference%2Fisis-summit-vienna-2015%2Fpaper%2F2842=02%7C01%7Csji%40pharmacy.rutgers.edu%7C89f81861ee684f05e46b08d559d86fe1%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C1%7C636513708497810284=bMlZ324OoEHA5XMQibKiEFsm75NhcpkfIcSRUJbQZNg%3D=0>
  [2] Petoukhov, S. (2017).  Genetic coding and united-hypercomplex systems in 
the models of algebraic biology. BioSystems 158: 31-46.
  [3] Petoukhov, S. (2016).  The system-resonance approach in modeling genetic
structures. BiosySystems 139:1-11.
   [4] Ji, S. (2017).Neo-Semiotics: Introducing Zeroness into Peircean 
Semiotics May Bridge the Knowable and the Unknowable. Prog. Biophys. Mol. Biol. 
 131:387-401. PDF at 
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0079610717300858?via%3Dihub
   [5] Ji, S. (1997). Isomorphism between cell and human languages: molecualr 
biological, bioinformatic and linguistic implications. 
<http://www.conformon.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Isomorphism1.pdf> 
BioSystems 44:17-39.  PDF at 
http://www.conformon.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Isomorphism1.pdf

[6] Ji, S. (2017).  The Cell Language Theory: Connecting Mind and Matter.  
World Scientific, New Jersey.  Chapter 5.








From: Fis <fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Emanuel Diamant 
<emanl....@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 11:20 AM
To: fis@listas.unizar.es
Subject: [Fis] I salute to Sungchul


Dear FISers,



I would like to express my pleasure with the current state of our discourse – 
an evident attempt to reach a more common understanding about information 
issues and to enrich preliminary given assessments.

In this regard, I would like to add my comment to Sungchul’s post of January 
12, 2018.



Sungchul proposes “to recognize two distinct types of information which, for 
the lack of better terms, may be referred to as the "meaningless information" 
or I(-)  and "meaningful information" or I(+)”.

That is exactly what I am trying to put forward for years, albeit under more 
historically rooted names: Physical and Semantic information [1]. Never mind, 
what is crucially important here is that the duality of information becomes 

Re: [Fis] I salute to Sungchul

2018-01-12 Thread Loet Leydesdorff

Dear Emanuel,

The two types are sometimes also called "Shannon-type" versus 
"Bateson-type" information.


In Chinese, there are two words for "information".

Both words contain two char­acters as depicted in Figure 13.1. The above 
one, ‘sjin sji’, corresponds to the mathe­matical definition of 
informa­tion as uncertainty.[1] <#_ftn1> The sec­ond, ‘tsjin bao,’ means 
infor­mation but also intelligence.[2] <#_ftn2> In other words, it means 
infor­mation which informs us, and which is thus considered meaningful.



<#_ftnref1> [1] ‘sjin’ means letter of reliability, and ‘sji’ means 
message.


<#_ftnref2> [2] ‘tsjin’ means situation or status, and ‘bao’ means 
report.



Wu Yishan (personal communication)

From: Leydesdorff, L. (1995). The Challenge of Scientometrics: The 
development, measurement, and self-organization of scientific 
communications. Leiden: DSWO Press, Leiden University; at 
http://www.universal-publishers.com/book.php?method=ISBN=1581126816, 
p. 295.


Best,
Loet


Loet Leydesdorff

Professor emeritus, University of Amsterdam
Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)

l...@leydesdorff.net <mailto:l...@leydesdorff.net>; 
http://www.leydesdorff.net/
Associate Faculty, SPRU, <http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/>University of 
Sussex;


Guest Professor Zhejiang Univ. <http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/>, 
Hangzhou; Visiting Professor, ISTIC, 
<http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html>Beijing;


Visiting Fellow, Birkbeck <http://www.bbk.ac.uk/>, University of London;

http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYJ=en


-- Original Message --
From: "Emanuel Diamant" <emanl@gmail.com>
To: fis@listas.unizar.es
Sent: 1/12/2018 5:20:14 PM
Subject: [Fis] I salute to Sungchul


Dear FISers,



I would like to express my pleasure with the current state of our 
discourse – an evident attempt to reach a more common understanding 
about information issues and to enrich preliminary given assessments.


In this regard, I would like to add my comment to Sungchul’s post of 
January 12, 2018.




Sungchul proposes “to recognize two distinct types of information 
which, for the lack of better terms, may be referred to as the 
"meaningless information" or I(-)  and "meaningful information" or 
I(+)”.


That is exactly what I am trying to put forward for years, albeit under 
more historically rooted names: Physical and Semantic information [1]. 
Never mind, what is crucially important here is that the duality of 
information becomes publicly recognized and accepted by FIS community.




I salute to Sungchul’s suggestion!



Best regards, Emanuel.



[1] Emanuel Diamant, The brain is processing information, not data. 
Does anybody care?, ISIS Summit Vienna 2015, Extended Abstract. 
http://sciforum.net/conference/isis-summit-vienna-2015/paper/2842







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[Fis] I salute to Sungchul

2018-01-12 Thread Emanuel Diamant
Dear FISers, 

 

I would like to express my pleasure with the current state of our discourse
- an evident attempt to reach a more common understanding about information
issues and to enrich preliminary given assessments. 

In this regard, I would like to add my comment to Sungchul's post of January
12, 2018. 

 

Sungchul proposes "to recognize two distinct types of information which, for
the lack of better terms, may be referred to as the "meaningless
information" or I(-)  and "meaningful information" or I(+)". 

That is exactly what I am trying to put forward for years, albeit under more
historically rooted names: Physical and Semantic information [1]. Never
mind, what is crucially important here is that the duality of information
becomes publicly recognized and accepted by FIS community.

 

I salute to Sungchul's suggestion!

 

Best regards, Emanuel.

 

[1] Emanuel Diamant, The brain is processing information, not data. Does
anybody care?, ISIS Summit Vienna 2015, Extended Abstract.
http://sciforum.net/conference/isis-summit-vienna-2015/paper/2842 

 

 

 

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