tanley N Salthe
> Sent: jeudi, 31 mai 2018 16:21
> To: Burgin, Mark; fis
> Subject: Re: [Fis] Is information physical? A logical analysis
>
> Mark -- What Shannon referred to as 'entropy' was 'variety'. 'Information'
> per se was achieved by way of a reduction or winnowing of thi
Dear Arturo,
> On 21 May 2018, at 12:49, tozziart...@libero.it wrote:
>
> Dear Bruno,
> You state that:
> "When poll are done at congress in cosmology or quantum computing, about half
> of the physicists endorse the non collapse theory, as it is covariant, and
> has no “measurement problem”.
Dear Arturo,
Thank you very much for responding to my post (nobody else did not reacted
to the UCLA finding).
Even more thanks for directing me to the Neuroskeptic blog - the real
discussion about the UCLA finding took place only there.
You are incorrect stating that the "paper about
-
>
> *From:* Fis [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] *On Behalf Of *Stanley
> N Salthe
> *Sent:* jeudi, 31 mai 2018 16:21
> *To:* Burgin, Mark; fis
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Is information physical? A logical analysis
>
>
>
> Mark
: Fis [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of Stanley N
Salthe
Sent: jeudi, 31 mai 2018 16:21
To: Burgin, Mark; fis
Subject: Re: [Fis] Is information physical? A logical analysis
Mark -- What Shannon referred to as 'entropy' was 'variety'. 'Information'
per se was achieved by way
cholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYJ=en
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Burgin, Mark"
> To: "Søren Brier" ; "Krassimir Markov" ;
> "fis@listas.unizar.es"
> Sent: 5/24/2018 4:23:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [Fis] Is i
: [Fis] Is information physical?
Dear Emanuel,
Hi!
I'm sorry, but the UCLA finding does not put an end to any question.
Indeed, this paper about memory transfer has been highly criticized:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2018/05/18/epic-snail-about-t
hat-injectable-memory-study/#.Ww
Dear Emanuel,
Hi!
I'm sorry, but the UCLA finding does not put an end to any question. Indeed,
this paper about memory transfer has been highly criticized:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2018/05/18/epic-snail-about-that-injectable-memory-study/#.Ww-V81UzYps
The term
:mbur...@math.ucla.edu>>
To: "Søren Brier" mailto:sbr@cbs.dk>>; "Krassimir
Markov" mailto:mar...@foibg.com>>;
"fis@listas.unizar.es" <mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es>>
Sent: 5/24/2018 4:23:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Fis] Is information physical? A logica
t; fis@listas.unizar.es
Objet : RE: [Fis] Is information physical? A logical analysis
Dear Christoph
I am not sure what you mean. In my understanding the important dynamics in
Peirce’s pragmaticist semiotics is that symbols grow and create habits in a web
of signs in nature as well as in c
nature that through evolution and
history develops reasoning in many interlocking dimension.
Best
Søren
From: Christophe Menant <christophe.men...@hotmail.fr>
Sent: 25. maj 2018 09:08
To: Søren Brier <sbr@cbs.dk>; fis@listas.unizar.es
Subject: RE: [Fis] Is informat
om:* l...@leydesdorff.net <leydesdo...@gmail.com> *On Behalf Of *Loet
Leydesdorff
*Sent:* 24. maj 2018 07:45
*To:* Burgin, Mark <mbur...@math.ucla.edu>; Søren Brier <sbr@cbs.dk>;
Krassimir Markov <mar...@foibg.com>; fis@listas.unizar.es
*Subject:* Re[2]: [Fis] Is information
De : Fis <fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es> de la part de Søren Brier
<sbr@cbs.dk>
Envoyé : jeudi 24 mai 2018 17:44
À : Loet Leydesdorff; Burgin, Mark; Krassimir Markov; fis@listas.unizar.es
Objet : Re: [Fis] Is information physical? A logical analysis
Dea
n Brier <sbr@cbs.dk>;
Krassimir Markov <mar...@foibg.com>; fis@listas.unizar.es
Subject: Re[2]: [Fis] Is information physical? A logical analysis
Dear Mark, Soren, and colleagues,
The easiest distinction is perhaps Descartes' one between res cogitans and res
extensa as two different
Thanks Lou, you are surely right to point out the object-nature of concepts.
>There is no escape from sooner or later realizing that 2 exists only
in the mind or in the Mind.
Indeed. Our minds are full of such concepts. It seems that one of the
important activities of the mind is to generate
ch9gNYJ=en
-- Original Message --
From: "Burgin, Mark" <mbur...@math.ucla.edu>
To: "Søren Brier" <sbr@cbs.dk>; "Krassimir Markov"
<mar...@foibg.com>; "fis@listas.unizar.es" <fis@listas.unizar.es>
Sent: 5/24/2018 4:23:5
Dai,
I start down a road toward attempting to understand information by first
understanding number and form.
|
||
|||
|
…
Is a number a thing?
Is 2 a thing?
Cannot say that this 2, this || “is” two. Rather it partakes in being a couple.
2 is relational. We say that there are 2 signs in
Dear Jerry, Joseph and all FISers,
The title of my contribution is Logical Analysis but not Formal Logical
Analysis. It means that I did not use any formal logic but thoroughly
applied simple mundane logic, which is frequently used in everyday life.
Sincerely,
Mark
On 5/18/2018 8:45
<mbur...@math.ucla.edu>
*Emne:* Re: [Fis] Is information physical? A logical analysis
Dear Mark and FIS Colleagues,
First of all. I support the idea of Mark to write a paper and to
publish it in IJ ITA.
It will be nice to continue our common work this way.
At the second place, I want to point t
Dear Bruno,
You state that:
"When poll are done at congress in cosmology or quantum computing, about half
of the physicists endorse the non collapse theory, as it is covariant, and has
no “measurement problem”.
This means that the main tenet of your account, your "First Principle", is not
Dear Arturo,
This is already my second post of this week, so you might answer to my two
posts, and I will comment your possible answer (if necessary) next week. Thank
you.
> On 20 May 2018, at 19:30, tozziart...@libero.it wrote:
>
> Dear Bruno,
> You talk about "some non mechanical
Dear Bruno,
You talk about "some non mechanical super-entities (which exist also in the
arithmetical reality)".
This way of reasoning throws us into the realm of the philosophy of
mathematics, in which you clearly pursue a neo-platonism in the traces of
Tegmark, Godel, Husserl, Tiles, against
Hi Dai Griffith, Hi Colleagues,
> On 17 May 2018, at 13:44, Dai Griffiths wrote:
>
> What is a 'thing'?
>
I assume Digital Mechanism all along. I don’t know if it is true, but if true
it provides a clear (and tastable) answer.
For the staring basic primitive
AJ=en
-- Original Message --
From: "Jose Javier Blanco Rivero" <javierwe...@gmail.com>
To: "Burgin, Mark" <mbur...@math.ucla.edu>
Cc: "Fis," <fis@listas.unizar.es>
Sent: 5/17/2018 12:47:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Fis] Is information physical? A logica
What is a 'thing'?
Perhaps it is more reasonable to think that only processes exist, and
that for human convenience in living in the world we put conceptual
membranes around some parts of those processes and call them 'things'.
From this point of view we do not have two aspects (things and
Dear FISers,
I recently came across an old interview to W. van Orman Quine and I got an
idea -maybe not very original per se. Quine distinguishes two kind of
philosophical problems: ontological (those referred to the existence of
things) and predicative (what can we say and know about things).
oun...@listas.unizar.es> På vegne af Krassimir Markov
Sendt: 17. maj 2018 11:33
Til: fis@listas.unizar.es; Burgin, Mark <mbur...@math.ucla.edu>
Emne: Re: [Fis] Is information physical? A logical analysis
Dear Mark and FIS Colleagues,
First of all. I support the idea of Mark to write a paper an
] Is information physical? A logical analysis
Dear FISers,
It was an interesting discussion, in which many highly intelligent and
creative individuals participated expressing different points of view. Many
interesting ideas were suggested. As a conclusion to this discussion, I would
like to suggest
bridge,
1993.
Best,
Bruno
PS That is my second message. Possible comment next week.
>
>
>
>
>> -- Messaggio originale --
>> Da: Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
>> A: FIS Webinar <fis@listas.unizar.es>
>> Data: 14 mag
Dear FISers,
It was an interesting discussion, in which many highly intelligent
and creative individuals participated expressing different points of
view. Many interesting ideas were suggested. As a conclusion to this
discussion, I would like to suggest a logical analysis of the problem
orry again!
Messaggio originale --
Da: Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
A: FIS Webinar <fis@listas.unizar.es>
Data: 14 maggio 2018 alle 11.48
Oggetto: Re: [Fis] [FIS] Is information physical?
Dear Arturo, Dear Colleagues,
On 11 May 2018, at 18:36, toz
Dear Arturo, Dear Colleagues,
> On 11 May 2018, at 18:36, tozziart...@libero.it wrote:
>
> Dear Bruno,
> I'm sorry, but I cannot agree.
>
>
I take a disagreement as a courtesy to pursue a conversation, which would be
boring without them.
But, what I say has been proved, peer reviewed by
Messaggio inoltrato
Da: tozziart...@libero.it A: Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be Cc:
fis@listas.unizar.es Data: giovedì, 10 maggio 2018, 03:23PM +02:00
Oggetto: Re[2]: [Fis] [FIS] Is information physical?
>Dear Bruno,
>You state:
>"IF indexical dig
Dear Arturo,
> On 10 May 2018, at 15:23, tozziart...@libero.it wrote:
>
> Dear Bruno,
> You state:
> "IF indexical digital mechanism is correct in the cognitive science,
> THEN “physical” has to be defined entirely in arithmetical term, i.e.
> “physical” becomes a mathematical notion.
>
Dear Arturo,
There were some reports in clinical psychology, about 30 years ago, that
relate to the question whether a machine can pretend to be a therapist.
That was the time as computers could newly be used in an interactive
fashion, and the Rogers techniques were a current discovery.
(Rogers
Dear Bruno,
You state:
"IF indexical digital mechanism is correct in the cognitive science,
THEN “physical” has to be defined entirely in arithmetical term, i.e.
“physical” becomes a mathematical notion.
...Indexical digital mechanism is the hypothesis that there is a level of
description of
(This mail has been sent previously , but without success. I resend it, with
minor changes). Problems due to different accounts. It was my first comment to
Mark Burgin new thread “Is information physical?”.
Dear Mark, Dear Colleagues,
Apology for not answering the mails in the chronological
ur...@math.ucla.edu>
the movement of the pendulum
falling drops of water
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 4:47 AM
To: fis@listas.unizar.es
Subject: Re: [Fis] Is information physical?
Dear Colleagues,
I would like to suggest the new topic for discussion
Is information phy
tozziart...@libero.it
Cc : fis@listas.unizar.es
Objet : Re: [Fis] Is information physical? OR Does the information exist
without the carrier?
Dear Folks,
I suspect I am past quota for the week. Apologies for that.
1. Work in logic and mathematics is scientific even if mathematicians and
logicians some
e the case of “time”.
>>>
>>> Does the time really exist?
>>>
>>> Does the time exist without real regular processes which we may reflect and
>>> compare?
>>>
>>> The time is falling drops of water, the movement of the pendulum, etc.
>>&g
rigine
> >De : u...@umces.edu
> >Date : 25/04/2018 - 08:14 (PDT)
> >À : mbur...@math.ucla.edu
> >Cc : fis@listas.unizar.es
> >Objet : Re: [Fis] Is information physical?
> >
> >Dear Mark,
> >
> >I share your inclination, albeit from a diffe
<mailto:mbur...@math.ucla.edu>
Cc : fis@listas.unizar.es<mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es>
Objet : Re: [Fis] Is information physical?
Dear Mark,
I share your inclination, albeit from a different perspective.
Consider the two statements:
1. Information is impossible without a physical
ature, time, etc., exist
>>>without objects which these characteristics belong to and may be measured by
>>>other objects.
>>>To understand more clearly, let see the case of “time”.
>>>Does the time really exist?
>>>Does the time exist w ithout real re
f these processes do not exist, will we have “time”?
>>
>>
>> I think, we have a question in two interrelated explanations:
>>
>> - Is information physical?
>>
>> - Does the information exist without the carrier?
&g
ot;u...@umces.edu" <u...@umces.edu>
Cc: "fis@listas.unizar.es" <fis@listas.unizar.es>
Subject: Re: [Fis] Is information physical? 'Signs rust.'
Information refers to changes in patterns of energy flow, some slow (frozen),
some fast, some quantitative and measurable, some
time.
Best wishes,
Joseph
>Message d'origine
>De : u...@umces.edu
>Date : 25/04/2018 - 08:14 (PDT)
>À : mbur...@math.ucla.edu
>Cc : fis@listas.unizar.es
>Objet : Re: [Fis] Is information physical?
>
>Dear Mark,
>
>I share your inclination, albeit from a diff
Dear Mark,
I share your inclination, albeit from a different perspective.
Consider the two statements:
1. Information is impossible without a physical carrier.
2. Information is impossible without the influence of that which does not exist.
There is significant truth in both statements.
I
sical?
>
> - Does the information exist without the carrier?
>
>
> Friendly greetings
>
> Krassimir
>
>
> From: Burgin, Mark <mailto:mbur...@math.ucla.edu>
> the movement of the pendulum
>
> falling drops of water
>
> Sent: Wednesday, Apr
Mark Burgin has proposed an interesting topic. Here is how I think of it.
We need to know the characteristics of an instrument if we are to correctly
interpret its output.
In this case our perceptual system is the instrument and information is the
output. The science of perception indicates
The question „Is information physical?” relates to the equivalence between
two mental/emotional contents of the brain, and can be compared to “Is A =
B ?” at first sight. In the form the question is posed, it is rendered in a
more empathic fashion in the form “Does A contain a sufficiently large
Dear all,
Following the ideas of Mark, Lou, Krassimir and Arturo, I think it is
worth to insist on a proposal I made in this forum a few months ago. That
is, the thesis of a general theory of communication media.
(Before going on I would like to remark that the concepts used here do not
Thanks everyone, all very stimulating!
On 25/04/18 03:47, Burgin, Mark wrote:
Any reasonable person will tell that the textbook contains knowledge
This is a metaphor. It is helpful in managing the complex relationships
of humans with media, but will lead us into tangles if we believe that
it
Hi all,
Information is information.
There is no reason to bundle it under any other genus.
There are physical information! (Cf., my paper at the Vienna conference,
2015.)
... And there are other (non-physical) information.
Other approach:
Information follows, in certain aspects, some laws of
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 4:47 AM
To: fis@listas.unizar.es
Subject: Re: [Fis] Is information physical?
Dear Colleagues,
I would like to suggest the new topic for discussion
Is information physical?
My opinion is presented below:
Why some people
Dear Lou and Mark,
Thanks for this - it is very important.
A quick question: why does it have to one or the other? Does the law of the
excluded middle apply to information? Why can't it be both?
As a way of extending this, can I suggest that the boundary between the
physical and the
y Pr.,
1993. pp. 333~337.
From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es <fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es> On Behalf
Of Louis H Kauffman
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 12:52 PM
To: Burgin, Mark <mbur...@math.ucla.edu>
Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es
Subject: Re: [Fis] Is information physical?
Dear
Dear Mark,
Thank you for suggesting this topic.
I concur wholeheartedly with your stand on this matter.
Information in the sense that you indicate
is pattern that is independent of the particular substrate on which it is
‘carried’.
There is a persistent myth in popular scientific culture that
Dear Colleagues,
I would like to suggest the new topic for discussion
Is information physical?
My opinion is presented below:
Why some people erroneously think that information is physical
The main reason to think that information is physical is the
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