Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: CfP: Marx is Back - The Importance of...]

[Joseph Brenner]

Dear Colleagues,

I can understand Leslie's feeling that a discipline should not be reified - 
this is the pathetic fallacy. But I completely agree with Pedro that science is 
embedded in society and its role and function must be compatible with the 
common good.

I note, in this connection, the recent book by the highly respected French 
philosopher, François Flahault, What has happened to the Common Good? (Où est 
passé le bien commun?)

Part of the force driving change, in part responsible for the resurgence of 
interest in Marx and some of his followers, is the need to reestablish the 
balance between individual rights and the duties that should accompany it, the 
other half of the dialectic. New information science and technology have a 
unique combination of factors that immediately raise ethical questions about 
the use of resources by the society, the value of informational exchanges and 
so on.

I would rather err on the side of too much emphasis on ethical aspects of 
information science than of too little.

Best,

Joseph   
  - Original Message - 
  From: Pedro C. Marijuan 
  To: Leslie Smith 
  Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 1:29 PM
  Subject: Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: CfP: Marx is Back - The Importance of...]


  Thanks, Leslie, but I do not think that "all disciplines are created equal". 
For instance, electrotechnics and thermodynamics were crucial for the second 
industrial revolution, and you can find in the writings of some of the most 
prestigious researchers of that time the sense of social "mission" for their 
research & applications, strongly in the wake of the social "progress". In some 
cases that we call "revolutionary", maybe applying to the current info society 
or info revolution, a new discipline promoting a new way of thinking becomes 
not just like the typewriter writing a blank paper, but the general inspiration 
for most of the authors, the canon to follow. In our times "sustainability" has 
substituted for progress, and a mature info science, in the sense that Steven 
and Shu-Kun were exchanging (I was happy to spend one of my two weekly shots 
entering it), has interesting things to say about info-circulation, knowledge, 
values, markets, planning, self-organization, democracy, etc. ---which 
seemingly should be crucial for achieving sustainable societies.

  best

  ---Pedro

  Leslie Smith escribió: 
Information science does not have a social mission, any more than 
Mathematics or Statistics has a social mission. 


Information scientists and Mathematicians often do have a social mission, 
but that is not to say that their discipline has a social mission. Computers 
(for example) can be used to aid democracy or tyranny, to help religions or 
atheism or humanism, etc. You might as well ask what the social mission of a 
typewriter is. It depends what is being typed.


--Leslie Smith






On 25 Jul 2011, at 15:20, Pedro C. Marijuan wrote:


  What is the social mission of information science?


Professor Leslie S. Smith B.Sc. Ph.D. SMIEEE,
Head, Institute of Computing Science and Mathematics, School of Natural 
Sciences
University of Stirling,
Stirling FK9 4LA, Scotland
l.s.sm...@cs.stir.ac.uk  
Tel (44) 1786 467435 Fax (44) 1786 464551
www http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~lss/














The Sunday Times Scottish University of the Year 2009/2010
The University of Stirling is a charity registered in Scotland, number SC 
011159.



-- 
-
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Avda. Gómez Laguna, 25, Pl. 11ª
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Telf: 34 976 71 3526 (& 6818) Fax: 34 976 71 5554
pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
-


--


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Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: CfP: Marx is Back - The Importance of...]

[Pedro C. Marijuan]

Thanks, Leslie, but I do not think that "all disciplines are created 
equal". For instance, electrotechnics and thermodynamics were crucial 
for the second industrial revolution, and you can find in the writings 
of some of the most prestigious researchers of that time the sense of 
social "mission" for their research & applications, strongly in the wake 
of the social "progress". In some cases that we call "revolutionary", 
maybe applying to the current info society or info revolution, a new 
discipline promoting a new way of thinking becomes not just like the 
typewriter writing a blank paper, but the general inspiration for most 
of the authors, the canon to follow. In our times "sustainability" has 
substituted for progress, and a mature info science, in the sense that 
Steven and Shu-Kun were exchanging (I was happy to spend one of my two 
weekly shots entering it), has interesting things to say about 
info-circulation, knowledge, values, markets, planning, 
self-organization, democracy, etc. ---which seemingly should be crucial 
for achieving sustainable societies.


best

---Pedro

Leslie Smith escribió:
Information science does not have a social mission, any more than 
Mathematics or Statistics has a social mission.


Information scientists and Mathematicians often do have a social 
mission, but that is not to say that their discipline has a social 
mission. Computers (for example) can be used to aid democracy or 
tyranny, to help religions or atheism or humanism, etc. You might as 
well ask what the social mission of a typewriter is. It depends what 
is being typed.


--Leslie Smith



On 25 Jul 2011, at 15:20, Pedro C. Marijuan wrote:


What is the social mission of information science?


Professor Leslie S. Smith B.Sc. Ph.D. SMIEEE,
Head, Institute of Computing Science and Mathematics, School of 
Natural Sciences

University of Stirling,
Stirling FK9 4LA, Scotland
l.s.sm...@cs.stir.ac.uk   
Tel (44) 1786 467435 Fax (44) 1786 464551

www http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~lss/ 







The Sunday Times Scottish University of the Year 2009/2010
The University of Stirling is a charity registered in Scotland, number 
SC 011159.


--
-
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Avda. Gómez Laguna, 25, Pl. 11ª
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Telf: 34 976 71 3526 (& 6818) Fax: 34 976 71 5554
pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
-

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[Fis] [Fwd: Re: CfP: Marx is Back - The Importance of...]

[Pedro C. Marijuan]

Dear FIS colleagues,

the further exchange, below, between Steven and Shu-Kun is highly 
interesting. What is the social mission of information science?

---Pedro


__

(Steven)

We agree, in fact, though I would use different terms: our property 
notions are the basis of unmerited privilege and class, to change such 
injustice we must change our property notions. It is certainly the case 
that "the right of prior claim" (the currently dominant property notion) 
is the distribution of the "rights of kings" and the product of 
religious ideology.

Also, though I would challenge your use of the term "meaningful 
information" here, I take you to advocate that individuals in a 
sustainable society develop "social collateral." We agree.As a modern 
Positivist I certainly like to see work done in at the foundations of 
information science that will lead us to a better understanding of 
social behavior, in order for us to build political theories that are 
based upon science and not religion. All I meant to do in my remarks to 
you was advocate/encourage this point of view.

Information Science is a science that is in its infancy and its 
foundations need work. Ultimately we must find our way to a unification 
of science so that it can be universally applied. I see Information 
Science as a part of that movement. As to Marx, we need to move on - 
social circumstances have long moved beyond anything that Marx 
considered. The communist manifesto no longer serves the working-class 
and it cannot be their cause.

With respect,

Steven


On Jul 22, 2011, at 6:11 AM, Dr. Shu-Kun Lin wrote:

> Dear Steven,
> 
> Thanks. In my humble idea, people in a sustainable society should seek
> for virtue (honor, reputation, etc.), or the possession of some kind of
> "meaningful information", not for the possession of "capital" or
> material (or gold, or big house or being very rich). The possession of
> material properties will destroy the nonrenewable resources. If the
> world is dominated and governed by religion or ideology (Christianity,
> Islam, Confucianism, or the modern ideology communism) and people live
> in a spiritually rich life, it will be better than "material girl" life
> (example is Wendi Deng Murdoch, see:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendi_Deng, a Chinese married the Mr.
> Murdoch who is in trouble these days).
> 
> Maybe the capital itself may be defined by "information"--to be
> symbolized as some pure number, not valued by kg of gold bar.
> 
> There should be a lot to do with information concepts.
> 
> I am a publisher. I am trying to set up many new journals to promote
> sustainability at www.mdpi.com.
> 
> Best regards,
> Shu-Kun
> 
> On 21.07.2011 19:54, Steven Ericsson-Zenith wrote:
>> 
>> You need to add "none of the above," which I take to mean the
>> disassembly of globalization and the elimination of centralized
>> government and "central planning."
>> 
>> However, I fail to see what this has to do with the Foundations of
>> Information Science unless you propose some information science
>> foundations to reasoning about social order that may lead to a
>> scientific foundation to political theory.
>> 
>> With respect, Steven
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 21, 2011, at 10:40 AM, Dr. Shu-Kun Lin wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear Igor,
>>> 
>>> Dictatorship and democracy is another topic we need to discuss.
>>> Maybe there are 4 combinatorial systems:
>>> 
>>> planned/communist + democracy (Is this the most ideal one?)
>>> planned/communist + dictatorship (USSR?, North Korea) free
>>> market/capitalism + dictatorship (China now?) free
>>> market/capitalism + democracy (Most of the Western countries, now)
>>> 
>>> Best regards, Shu-Kun
>>> 
>>> 


-- 
-
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Avda. Gómez Laguna, 25, Pl. 11ª
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Telf: 34 976 71 3526 (& 6818) Fax: 34 976 71 5554
pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
-

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