[Fis] [Fwd: physics and information]-From Jacob Lee

2010-10-06 Thread Pedro C. Marijuan



 Mensaje original 
Asunto: physics and information
Fecha:  Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:23:34 -0700 (PDT)
De: Jacob I Lee jacob...@csufresno.edu
Para:   Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
CC: fis@listas.unizar.es




Hello,

The recent discussion of the fluctuon model has made me curious about 
how closely a theory of information must be wedded to physics. I want to 
think of a theory of information that is independent of any particular 
model of physics, but this seems perilous when, for example, such things 
as the simultaneity of events across frames of reference may have at one 
time been taken as axiomatic. At some level of abstraction is there a 
physics-neutral theory of information universally applicable to any 
possible physics?


My questions are assuredly naive, but naivety is the source of all 
questions.


Best,

Jacob
www.jacoblee.net



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Re: [Fis] [Fwd: physics and information]-From Jacob Lee

2010-10-06 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Replying to Guy --


You are right.  My favorite examples of signals moving across scales
(e.g.,direct interactions) are (a) lightning, where a signal from the planet
scale system directly contacts an organism at a lower scale, and (b) cancer,
where a single cell can destroy a multicellular organism at a higher scale.
 But it can't do this without first growing a population, increasing its
scale.  So, such instances of cross scale signal transitions tend to be
disruptive.  As Simon proposed, the stability of the world depends to some
extent on its being layered into different-scale domains.


Replying to Pedro --


What you are asking for -- a physics-neutral theory of information is, I
think not possible in our culture.  Science is our dominant conceptual
institution, and physics is its basis (with logic as ITS foundation).  The
sciences can be displayed thus, in a subsumptive hierarchy: {logic {physics
{chemistry {biology {psychology {sociology}}, with the last two possibly
reversed.  There can be no statement in any science that would be
incompatible with physics.  Having said that, we can see that physics has
been trying to broaden itself via quantum mechanics.  But note the tern
'mechanics' here.  Our culture is predisposed to mechanistic models.  But
every day we experience 'qualia', and these do not seem to be involved with
anything in that hierarchy. Hence we have radical dualisms -- the epistemic
cut, mind / matter, map / territory, OR, internalism / externalism.


STAN

On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 4:18 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
 wrote:



  Mensaje original   Asunto: physics and information  Fecha:
 Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:23:34 -0700 (PDT)  De: Jacob I Lee
 jacob...@csufresno.edu jacob...@csufresno.edu  Para: Pedro C. Marijuan
 pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es  CC:
 fis@listas.unizar.es


 Hello,

 The recent discussion of the fluctuon model has made me curious about how
 closely a theory of information must be wedded to physics. I want to think
 of a theory of information that is independent of any particular model of
 physics, but this seems perilous when, for example, such things as the
 simultaneity of events across frames of reference may have at one time been
 taken as axiomatic. At some level of abstraction is there a
 physics-neutral theory of information universally applicable to any possible
 physics?

 My questions are assuredly naive, but naivety is the source of all
 questions.

 Best,

 Jacob
 www.jacoblee.net



  --



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 fis mailing list
 fis@listas.unizar.es
 https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis


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