Re: [Fis] Progress on black hole information paradox
That is insulting. Please be more careful in the future. John Collier Professor Emeritus and Senior Research Associate University of KwaZulu-Natal http://web.ncf.ca/collier From: Krassimir Markov [mailto:mar...@foibg.com] Sent: Tuesday, 28 June 2016 7:00 PM To: John Collier ; fis Subject: Re: [Fis] Progress on black hole information paradox Dear John and FIS Colleagues, The main paradox of the “black hole information paradox” is that maybe someone knows what is the “black hole” but in the same time he/she has no imagination what is “information”. Friendly regards Krassimir From: John Collier<mailto:colli...@ukzn.ac.za> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 2:01 PM To: fis<mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es> Subject: [Fis] Progress on black hole information paradox Not solved yet, as method applies only EM radiation, and not to gravity (where the real problem lies in any case). I note that the problem can be stated properly only by using information theory (or something that is equivalent – same models). http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2016/jun/08/soft-hairs-help-resolve-the-black-hole-information-paradox John Collier Professor Emeritus and Senior Research Associate University of KwaZulu-Natal http://web.ncf.ca/collier ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es<mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] Progress on black hole information paradox
That is one limited way to think of information . It is reasonably precise, which is an advantage. But ignores and in fact rules out other usages that share important basic properties, suggesting a unified notion that goes well beyond the narrow usage you prefer, Krassimir. John Collier Professor Emeritus and Senior Research Associate University of KwaZulu-Natal http://web.ncf.ca/collier From: Fis [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of Krassimir Markov Sent: Tuesday, 28 June 2016 8:58 PM To: FIS Subject: [Fis] Progress on black hole information paradox Dear Francesco, Thank you for the polite words! In addition to your explanation, I have to point that, from mine point of view, we have principally and opposite understandings of the concept information. Your position is that the information is primary and matter and energy are secondary, i.e. information created both of them. My understanding is that the information is a kind of reflection in the material entities but not every reflection is information. The “reflection” is internal structural of functional difference which has been created after an interaction between entities. Only living creatures may operate with reflections in their consciousness. In other words, the “information” is a reflection in the consciousness for which in the same consciousness there exist evidence what the refection reflects. Friendly regards Krassimir PS: This is my second post for this week. Next half month I will spend on Summer Session of ITHEA International Conferences (http://www.ithea.org/conferences/itaf2016.htm). Because of this I shall be silent till middle of July. Have nice and happy summer! From: Francesco Rizzo<mailto:13francesco.ri...@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 8:29 PM To: Krassimir Markov<mailto:mar...@foibg.com> Subject: Re: [Fis] Progress on black hole information paradox Cari John, Krassimir e Tutti, informazione è un infinito o molteplice modo di prendere forma (neg-entropia), dis-informazione è un infinito o molteplice modo di perdere forma (entropia). Con il mio processo di tras-in-formazione, cuore della "Nuova economia", consistente nell'immissione (input) di materia, energia e informazione e nell'emissione (output) di materia, energia e informazione in stati diversi, ho capito 20 anni prima di S. Hawking, pur essendo un economista, che la sua teoria non funzionava. Lui è arrivato alle mie, modeste, stesse conclusioni nel 2004-2005. Inoltre energia e materia non sono altro che due tipi di informazione, quindi l'unica o fondamentale legge dell vita e della scienza è l'INFORMAZIONE. Questo ora stanno incominciando a conoscerlo od ammetterlo tanti, ma io l'ho sempre pensato, scritto e proposto agli economisti che sono spesso duri di cervice come l'apostolo Pietro. Non mi dilungo ad esporre i dettagli o particolari di questa problematica contenuti almeno in una dozzina di miei libri, a proposito soprattutto dell'indeterminazione quantistica e dell'indeterminazione gravitazionale. Ad onor del vero sono stato stimolato a trasmettere questa e-mail molto, troppo, sintetica dal problema the black-hole-infromation-paradox presentato e suggerito in modo magnifico da John Collier e dalla domanda di Krassimir Markov, altrettanto notevole, "qualcuno, lui/lei non immagina cosa sia informazione". Mille grazie a tutti e due e a a tutti Voi che sopportate il mio (essere) italiano. Un abbraccio veramente affettuoso e riconoscente. Francesco 2016-06-28 19:00 GMT+02:00 Krassimir Markov mailto:mar...@foibg.com>>: Dear John and FIS Colleagues, The main paradox of the “black hole information paradox” is that maybe someone knows what is the “black hole” but in the same time he/she has no imagination what is “information”. Friendly regards Krassimir From: John Collier<mailto:colli...@ukzn.ac.za> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 2:01 PM To: fis<mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es> Subject: [Fis] Progress on black hole information paradox Not solved yet, as method applies only EM radiation, and not to gravity (where the real problem lies in any case). I note that the problem can be stated properly only by using information theory (or something that is equivalent – same models). http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2016/jun/08/soft-hairs-help-resolve-the-black-hole-information-paradox John Collier Professor Emeritus and Senior Research Associate University of KwaZulu-Natal http://web.ncf.ca/collier ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es<mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es<mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
[Fis] Progress on black hole information paradox
Dear Francesco, Thank you for the polite words! In addition to your explanation, I have to point that, from mine point of view, we have principally and opposite understandings of the concept information. Your position is that the information is primary and matter and energy are secondary, i.e. information created both of them. My understanding is that the information is a kind of reflection in the material entities but not every reflection is information. The “reflection” is internal structural of functional difference which has been created after an interaction between entities. Only living creatures may operate with reflections in their consciousness. In other words, the “information” is a reflection in the consciousness for which in the same consciousness there exist evidence what the refection reflects. Friendly regards Krassimir PS: This is my second post for this week. Next half month I will spend on Summer Session of ITHEA International Conferences (http://www.ithea.org/conferences/itaf2016.htm). Because of this I shall be silent till middle of July. Have nice and happy summer! From: Francesco Rizzo Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 8:29 PM To: Krassimir Markov Subject: Re: [Fis] Progress on black hole information paradox Cari John, Krassimir e Tutti, informazione è un infinito o molteplice modo di prendere forma (neg-entropia), dis-informazione è un infinito o molteplice modo di perdere forma (entropia). Con il mio processo di tras-in-formazione, cuore della "Nuova economia", consistente nell'immissione (input) di materia, energia e informazione e nell'emissione (output) di materia, energia e informazione in stati diversi, ho capito 20 anni prima di S. Hawking, pur essendo un economista, che la sua teoria non funzionava. Lui è arrivato alle mie, modeste, stesse conclusioni nel 2004-2005. Inoltre energia e materia non sono altro che due tipi di informazione, quindi l'unica o fondamentale legge dell vita e della scienza è l'INFORMAZIONE. Questo ora stanno incominciando a conoscerlo od ammetterlo tanti, ma io l'ho sempre pensato, scritto e proposto agli economisti che sono spesso duri di cervice come l'apostolo Pietro. Non mi dilungo ad esporre i dettagli o particolari di questa problematica contenuti almeno in una dozzina di miei libri, a proposito soprattutto dell'indeterminazione quantistica e dell'indeterminazione gravitazionale. Ad onor del vero sono stato stimolato a trasmettere questa e-mail molto, troppo, sintetica dal problema the black-hole-infromation-paradox presentato e suggerito in modo magnifico da John Collier e dalla domanda di Krassimir Markov, altrettanto notevole, "qualcuno, lui/lei non immagina cosa sia informazione". Mille grazie a tutti e due e a a tutti Voi che sopportate il mio (essere) italiano. Un abbraccio veramente affettuoso e riconoscente. Francesco 2016-06-28 19:00 GMT+02:00 Krassimir Markov : Dear John and FIS Colleagues, The main paradox of the “black hole information paradox” is that maybe someone knows what is the “black hole” but in the same time he/she has no imagination what is “information”. Friendly regards Krassimir From: John Collier Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 2:01 PM To: fis Subject: [Fis] Progress on black hole information paradox Not solved yet, as method applies only EM radiation, and not to gravity (where the real problem lies in any case). I note that the problem can be stated properly only by using information theory (or something that is equivalent – same models). http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2016/jun/08/soft-hairs-help-resolve-the-black-hole-information-paradox John Collier Professor Emeritus and Senior Research Associate University of KwaZulu-Natal http://web.ncf.ca/collier -- ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] Progress on black hole information paradox
Dear John and FIS Colleagues, The main paradox of the “black hole information paradox” is that maybe someone knows what is the “black hole” but in the same time he/she has no imagination what is “information”. Friendly regards Krassimir From: John Collier Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 2:01 PM To: fis Subject: [Fis] Progress on black hole information paradox Not solved yet, as method applies only EM radiation, and not to gravity (where the real problem lies in any case). I note that the problem can be stated properly only by using information theory (or something that is equivalent – same models). http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2016/jun/08/soft-hairs-help-resolve-the-black-hole-information-paradox John Collier Professor Emeritus and Senior Research Associate University of KwaZulu-Natal http://web.ncf.ca/collier ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
[Fis] Progress on black hole information paradox
Not solved yet, as method applies only EM radiation, and not to gravity (where the real problem lies in any case). I note that the problem can be stated properly only by using information theory (or something that is equivalent - same models). http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2016/jun/08/soft-hairs-help-resolve-the-black-hole-information-paradox John Collier Professor Emeritus and Senior Research Associate University of KwaZulu-Natal http://web.ncf.ca/collier ___ Fis mailing list Fis@listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis