Re: [Fis] fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2

2013-04-16 Thread john . holgate


Dear Xueshan,

Another interesting source for Bateson's DTMD is in 'Angels Fear:
towards an epistemiology of the sacred' (1988):

'That which gets from territory to map is news of difference, and at
that point I recognized that news of difference was a synonym for
information' (http://www.oikos.org/angelsfear.htm#introduction [1] )

Reading from James Gleik's book 'The Information' recently and his
description of the seminal Macy's Conferencesof 1941 it would seem
that Shannon Wiener and Bateson were coming from the same new idea of
'information' but with different formulations. Mackay's formal
approach (in-form-ation) is closer to the historical/philosophical
concept inherited from Plato and Aristotle. 

I think 'news of information' (cf  Shannon's 'surprise') is related
to the symmetry-breaking phenomenon that Pedro and John Collier
identified back in 1996 as an essential feature of in-formation at
work (where the in- prefix implies the deconstructive force of the
Greek 'ana' (as in the verb _anamorpheoin_, to transform by breaking
down the shape).  Without the antisymmetric force of
'news' difference does not become a dynamic phenomenon (as in
differentiation) but remains a speculative abstraction (like 'drawing
a distinction'). 

The key question for IS is  - to what , for whom and how is the
difference made. 

John H

- Original Message -

  From:y...@pku.edu.cn 

To:
Cc:
Sent:Sun, 14 Apr 2013 16:52:40 +0800
Subject:Re: [Fis] fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2

Dear Pedro, Dear Joseph,

About the Milton Keynes Conference, i.e., about DTMD
definition, we saw this quote long long ago, but there two
different sayings: One is Information is a distinction that
makes a difference from Donald M. MacKay in his
Information, Mechanism and Meaning (1969), and another is
Information is a difference that makes a difference from
Gregory Bateson in his Steps to an Ecology of Mind (1972).

Although I have checked it page by page in Donald M.
MacKay's book but can't found it, whereas it is easy to find
Information is a difference that makes a difference in
Gregory Bateson's Steps to an Ecology of Mind at page 230,
361, 339, etc., who can tell the accurate priority about
DTMD?

Best wishes,

Xueshan
16:49, April 14, 2013 Peking University

 -Original Message-
 From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es 
 [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of 
 fis-requ...@listas.unizar.es
 Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 12:00 AM
 To: fis@listas.unizar.es
 Subject: fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2
 
 Send fis mailing list submissions to
 fis@listas.unizar.es
 
 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
 or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help'
to
 fis-requ...@listas.unizar.es
 
 You can reach the person managing the list at
 fis-ow...@listas.unizar.es
 
 When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more

 specific than Re: Contents of fis digest...
 
 
 Today's Topics:
 
 1. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (joe.bren...@bluewin.ch)
 2. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN
FERNANDEZ)
 3. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (Gyorgy Darvas)
 
 


--
 
 Message: 1
 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 17:11:58 + (GMT+00:00)
 From: joe.bren...@bluewin.ch 
 Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013)
 To: , 
 Message-ID:

 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
 
 
 
 
 
 Dear Pedro,
 
 Glad to hear from you. Your silence was, of course, 
 expressive, containing much information . . .
 
 Now all of us will be waiting impatiently to learn about
the 
 the new, exciting themes that were discussed at the Milton

 Keynes Conference.
 
 Best wishes,
 
 Joseph
 
 Message d'origine
 De: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
 Date: 12.04.2013 11:02
 À: 
 Objet: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013)
 
 Dear FIS Friends,
 
 Apologies for my long silence. As I have already said
several 
 times, my science management duties are killing not only
my 
 time but also my nerve (well, not completely!). Imagine
what 
 is happening with the financing and organization of
Spanish 
 science these years...
 
 Anyhow, a couple of good news about our common Information

 Science endeavor. First, there has been an excellent 
 conference in Milton Keynes, organized by the Open 
 University, about Information (the difference that makes
a 
 difference). Quite exciting discussions on our most dear 
 themes, and some new ones that we have rarely addressed
here. 
 The organizers, a very active team indeed, are cordially 
 invited to lead a discussion session in our FIS list to 
 continue with the conceptual explorations addressed in
their 
 conference.
 
 And the second news is about an imminent FIS CONFERENCE, 
 MOSCOW 2013, the Sixth FIS, and the 1st of the ISIS 
 organization. It will be held this May, from 21 to 24 in 
 Moscow. This time the Russian organizers have followed

Re: [Fis] fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2

2013-04-14 Thread Xueshan Yan
Dear Pedro, Dear Joseph,

About the Milton Keynes Conference, i.e., about DTMD
definition, we saw this quote long long ago, but there two
different sayings: One is Information is a distinction that
makes a difference from Donald M. MacKay in his
Information, Mechanism and Meaning (1969), and another is
Information is a difference that makes a difference from
Gregory Bateson in his Steps to an Ecology of Mind (1972).

Although I have checked it page by page in Donald M.
MacKay's book but can't found it, whereas it is easy to find
Information is a difference that makes a difference in
Gregory Bateson's Steps to an Ecology of Mind at page 230,
361, 339, etc., who can tell the accurate priority about
DTMD?

Best wishes,

Xueshan
16:49, April 14, 2013   Peking University

 -Original Message-
 From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es 
 [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of 
 fis-requ...@listas.unizar.es
 Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 12:00 AM
 To: fis@listas.unizar.es
 Subject: fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2
 
 Send fis mailing list submissions to
   fis@listas.unizar.es
 
 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
 or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help'
to
   fis-requ...@listas.unizar.es
 
 You can reach the person managing the list at
   fis-ow...@listas.unizar.es
 
 When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more

 specific than Re: Contents of fis digest...
 
 
 Today's Topics:
 
1. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (joe.bren...@bluewin.ch)
2. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN
FERNANDEZ)
3. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (Gyorgy Darvas)
 
 


--
 
 Message: 1
 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 17:11:58 + (GMT+00:00)
 From: joe.bren...@bluewin.ch joe.bren...@bluewin.ch
 Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013)
 To: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es, fis@listas.unizar.es
 Message-ID:
15776686.90091365786718476.javamail.webm...@bluewin.ch
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
 
 
 
 
 
 Dear Pedro,
 
 Glad to hear from you. Your silence was, of course, 
 expressive, containing much information . . .
 
 Now all of us will be waiting impatiently to learn about
the 
 the new, exciting themes that were discussed at the Milton

 Keynes Conference.
 
 Best wishes,
 
 Joseph
 
 Message d'origine
 De: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
 Date: 12.04.2013 11:02
 À: fis@listas.unizar.es
 Objet: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013)
 
 Dear FIS Friends,
 
 Apologies for my long silence. As I have already said
several 
 times, my science management duties are killing not only
my 
 time but also my nerve (well, not completely!). Imagine
what 
 is happening with the financing and organization of
Spanish 
 science these years...
 
 Anyhow, a couple of good news about our common Information

 Science endeavor. First, there has been an excellent 
 conference in Milton Keynes, organized by the Open 
 University, about Information (the difference that makes
a 
 difference). Quite exciting discussions on our most dear 
 themes, and some new ones that we have rarely addressed
here. 
 The organizers, a very active team indeed, are cordially 
 invited to lead a discussion session in our FIS list to 
 continue with the conceptual explorations addressed in
their 
 conference.
 
 And the second news is about an imminent FIS CONFERENCE, 
 MOSCOW 2013, the Sixth FIS, and the 1st of the ISIS 
 organization. It will be held this May, from 21 to 24 in 
 Moscow. This time the Russian organizers have followed a 
 singular procedure, a relatively closed conference
centered 
 in the diffusion of information science in the Russian 
 scientific community.  At the time being, to my knowledge
(I 
 could not follow very well the process), only the members
of 
 the ISIS board have been enlisted as foreign participants.

 But given that there will be several absences, interested
FIS 
 parties might ask about their possible participation.  
 The schedule is too tight for travels, visas etc, and
again I 
 have to apologize for not having posted this info before 
 (info glut!). In any case, am sure that our colleague 
 Konstantin  Kolin ( koli...@mail.ru ), leading organizer,
and 
 member of the Russian Academy of Science, will be happy to

 respond to interested parties and help them to accelerate
the process.
 
 Best wishes to all
 
 ---Pedro
 
 -
 Pedro C. Marijuán
 Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto 
 Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Centro de Investigación 
 Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA) Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13,
planta X
 50009 Zaragoza, Spain
 Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (amp; 6818)
 pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
 http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
 -
 
 ___
 fis mailing list
 fis@listas.unizar.es
 

Re: [Fis] fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2

2013-04-14 Thread Bob Logan
Dear Dr. Yan

I make reference to the MacKay quote in my article that can be found here: 
www.mdpi.com/2078-2489/3/1/68/pdf

I make reference to 
 Hayles, K. How We Became Posthuman; University of Chicago Press: Chicago, IL, 
USA, 1999.

where you will find an extensive discussion of Donald MacKay's formulation of 
his definition of information:  Information is a distinction that makes a 
difference–MacKay

If you google  Information is a distinction that makes a difference you will 
find many more references to this quote.

with kind regards - Bob Logan


On 2013-04-14, at 4:52 AM, Xueshan Yan wrote:

 Information is a distinction that
 makes a difference

__

Robert K. Logan
Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD
Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto 
www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan




___
fis mailing list
fis@listas.unizar.es
https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis


Re: [Fis] fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2

2013-04-14 Thread Julio Stern
Dear All: I have to agree with  Xueshan Yan on that one: In  G.Batesson (1979) 
Mind and Nature: A Necessary Unity NY: Dutton. We find at the Glassary p. 228: 
 Information: Any difference taht makes a difference. see also Ch.3, Multiple 
Versions of the World, Sec.1, The Case of Difference. All the best, ---Julio 
Stern  

From: lo...@physics.utoronto.ca
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 09:45:54 -0400
To: y...@pku.edu.cn
CC: fis@listas.unizar.es
Subject: Re: [Fis] fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2

Dear Dr. Yan
I make reference to the MacKay quote in my article that can be found here: 
www.mdpi.com/2078-2489/3/1/68/pdf
I make reference to  Hayles, K. How We Became Posthuman; University of Chicago 
Press: Chicago, IL, USA, 1999.
where you will find an extensive discussion of Donald MacKay's formulation of 
his definition of information:  Information is a distinction that makes a 
difference–MacKay
If you google  Information is a distinction that makes a difference you will 
find many more references to this quote.
with kind regards - Bob Logan

On 2013-04-14, at 4:52 AM, Xueshan Yan wrote:Information is a distinction that
makes a difference

__
Robert K. LoganChief Scientist - sLab at OCADProf. Emeritus - Physics - U. of 
Toronto www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan




___
fis mailing list
fis@listas.unizar.es
https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis  
  ___
fis mailing list
fis@listas.unizar.es
https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis