FW: SV: [Fis] info meaning

2007-10-04 Thread Christophe Menant
Dear Soren, I agree with your reading of Pedro’s proposal as to start with cellular meaning, and then go thru the higher levels of evolution. It has the advantage of beginning with the simplest case and then look at more complex ones. See (1) for a corresponding approach.But I’m afraid I

TR: SV: [Fis] info meaning

2007-10-05 Thread Christophe MENANT
at MGS as a building block can offers some possibilities (see http://cogprints.org/4531/ ). All the best Christophe -Message d'origine- De : Steven Ericsson-Zenith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Envoyé : vendredi 5 octobre 2007 01:26 À : Christophe Menant Cc : fis@listas.unizar.es Objet : Re: SV

[Fis] Information - Meaning - Knowledge

2008-09-18 Thread Christophe Menant
Folks, Answering to Joseph, I relate meaning to information by a systemic approach based on constraint satisfaction that allows an evolutionary/bottom-up usage (http://cogprints.org/6014/). So with this, a meaning exists relatively to a system submitted to a constraint. A meaning (a

Re: [Fis] Information - Meaning - Knowledge

2008-09-21 Thread Christophe Menant
Robin, Wittgenstein’s “meaning as use” is mostly related to meaning of words and sentences. And analytic philosophy is not in favour of considering evolutionary approaches.As the systemic approach goes with a bottom-up perspective usable for simple organisms, I do not feel that it can be

[Fis] FW: Denumerability of information (II)

2009-03-31 Thread Christophe Menant
Dear all, Comments from Michel and Rafael bring up an aspect of the proposal that has perhaps been underestimated. It is the interpretation of information which generates its content, its meaning. From “Information in cells” to “information for cells” we precisely have the interpretating

[Fis] The notion of meaning in the COST proposal

2009-04-01 Thread Christophe Menant
Thanks Stan, Biosemiotics can indeed be part of the story (http://crmenant.free.fr/Biosemiotics3/INDEX.HTM ), but part only. My point is about the importance of the notion of ”meaning” when talking about information. Interpretation of information (meaning generation) is key when information

Re: [Fis] The notion of meaning... (impredicativity)

2009-04-02 Thread Christophe Menant
and in the living brain would always keep the upper hand of complexity with respect any syntactic, computational procedures... Christophe Menant escribió: Thanks Stan, Biosemiotics can indeed be part of the story (http://crmenant.free.fr/Biosemiotics3/INDEX.HTM ), but part only. My

[Fis] FW: Fw: Definition of Knowledge?

2009-10-06 Thread Christophe Menant
Dear FIS colleagues, Knowledge is a wide and interesting subject as applied to us humans. But what about knowledge in the world of animals ? What about an evolutionary approach to knowledge that takes into account simpler forms of knowledge management as existing in animals ? We Humans can

Re: [Fis] Asymetry and Information: A modest proposal

2009-11-30 Thread Christophe Menant
, I like your approach. Here is something even simpler: the system is the meaning of the information. System and meaning are not totally separable. One's perspective focuses on one or the other, as the case may be. Best wishes, Joseph - Original Message - From: Christophe Menant


2010-11-24 Thread Christophe Menant
Resent to the correct address From: christophe.men...@hotmail.fr To: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es Subject: FW: [Fis] Fw: INTELLIGENCE INFORMATION Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 21:33:12 +0100 Dear Colleagues, Looking at relations between information and intelligence brings in the need to

[Fis] Closing Comments?‏‏

2010-12-22 Thread Christophe Menant
Dear Colleagues, In a few sentences, a summary of my contribution addressing some of Pedro’s formulations of Yixin's questions: It is difficult to consider a unique perspective on the relations between intelligence and information as they depend upon the agent being considered (bacteria,

[Fis] FW: BBC Doco; Cell

2011-03-31 Thread Christophe Menant
Gavin, Let me put it a bit differently, in terms of systems and types of laws. Prior the emergence of life in evolution we have only physico-chemical laws. Energy exchanges just obey these laws. There is no purpose, just matter in the interaction of laws (putting aside the question of the

Re: [Fis] replies to several

2011-05-09 Thread Christophe Menant
Dear Loet, Joe and all, We are reaching again the question of “meaning” as attached to information. Let me remind a few points addressed more or less explicitly in some previous posts: 1) A “meaning” does not exist by itself. It is a “meaningful information” (Shannon type information) related

Re: [Fis] replies to several

2011-05-11 Thread Christophe Menant
Loet, Commenting the points 2 to 5, you write: “Yes, but the differentia specifica is that meaning can be communicated using human language as an evolutionary achievement. Biological systems generate meaning, but cannot communicate it.” Human language is indeed a great evolutionary advantage.

[Fis] FW: [Fwd: Re: FW: Meaning Information Theory] ---From Gavin

2011-10-24 Thread Christophe Menant
Dear Gavin, As you find some interest for a Theory of Meaningful Information, it may be pertinent to recall a systemic approach to meaning generation: When a system submitted to a constraint (stay alive, avoid obstacle, ...) receives from its environment an information that has a connection

[Fis] FW: [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

2012-03-16 Thread Christophe Menant
Dear FISers, Indeed information can be considered downwards (physical meaningless) and upwards (biological meaningful). The difference being about interpretation or not. It also introduces an evolutionary approach to information processing and meaning generation. There is a chapter

Re: [Fis] FW: [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

2012-03-18 Thread Christophe Menant
to the rules of language transformation. With respect, Steven -- Dr. Steven Ericsson-Zenith Institute for Advanced Science Engineering http://iase.info On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:18 AM, Christophe Menant wrote: Dear FISers, Indeed information can


2017-09-16 Thread Christophe Menant
Interesting points Guy, Let me proposed a few things that can come in addition. “Fitness” could be worded “conformance to a demand”, or “satisfaction of a constraint”. And there we are talking about existing relations, like satisfying a ”stay alive” constraint for animals, a ”look for happiness

[Fis] TR: Data - Reflection - Information

2017-10-10 Thread Christophe Menant
Thanks for these comments Terry. We should indeed be careful not to focus too much on language because 'meaning' is not limited to human communication. And also because starting at basic life level allows to address 'meaning' without the burden of complex performances like self-consciousness

[Fis] TR: Principles of IS

2017-09-30 Thread Christophe Menant
Dear FISers, A hot discussion indeed... We can all agree that perspectives on information depend on the context. Physics, mathematics, thermodynamics, biology, psychology, philosophy, AI, ... But these many contexts have a common backbone: They are part of the evolution of our universe and of

Re: [Fis] TR: Principles of IS

2017-10-03 Thread Christophe Menant
Dear John, It is interesting you bring us to the Interpretant in the Peircean triad where “meaning” is indeed key. The Interpretant is understood as the meaning of a sign, created by the mind of the Interpreter (Nöth, Handbook of Semiotics). But the triad Sign/Object/Interpretant does not

[Fis] TR: What is “Agent”?

2017-10-19 Thread Christophe Menant
Resent to FIS correct address De : Christophe Menant Envoyé : jeudi 19 octobre 2017 11:15 À : is Cc : Krassimir Markov Objet : RE: [Fis] What is “Agent”? Dear FIS colleagues, Looking at defining agency is an interesting subject, somehow close to information

[Fis] TR: What is “Agent”?

2017-10-22 Thread Christophe Menant
Yes Stan, the Moreno-Mossio book is an interesting and recent treatment of autonomy but, as the title indicates, it is focused on biological autonomy. FYI there is also a 2009 paper by Barandiaran & all (some from the Moreno IAS team) that addresses agency and autonomy in a different way,

[Fis] TR: some notes

2017-11-13 Thread Christophe Menant
Thanks for that Pedro, Just a few comments. All the best, Christophe De : Fis de la part de Pedro C. Marijuan Envoyé : lundi 13 novembre 2017 14:30 À : 'fis' Objet : [Fis] some notes Dear All,

[Fis] TR: What is ³Agent²?

2017-10-22 Thread Christophe Menant
Dear Gordana, Your proposal for elementary particles and social institutions as two limit cases for agency is interesting as it also positions limit cases for normative/teleological properties highlighted as implicit parts of agency by Terry. And it brings in perspectives on your subject.

Re: [Fis] Is information physical? A logical analysis

2018-05-25 Thread Christophe Menant
don’t see very well how they can be taken into account without the availability of a description or modeling of the Interpreter. Did I miss something? Best Christophe De : Søren Brier <sbr@cbs.dk> Envoyé : vendredi 25 mai 2018 13:13 À : Christophe Menan

Re: [Fis] Is information physical? A logical analysis

2018-05-25 Thread Christophe Menant
Dear Soren, You are right to recall that a transdisciplinary theory of cognition and communication has to include meaning. But I’m not sure that the Peircean approach is enough for that. The triad (Object, Sign, Interpretant) positions the Interpretant as being the meaning of the Sign created

Re: [Fis] The unification of the theories of information based on the cateogry theory

2018-02-13 Thread Christophe Menant
Dear Terry and FISers, It looks indeed reasonable to position the term 'language' as ‘simply referring to the necessity of a shared medium of communication’. Keeping in mind that communications exist only because agents need to manage meanings for given purposes. And the concept of agent can be

Re: [Fis] The unification of the theories of information based on the cateogry theory

2018-02-14 Thread Christophe Menant
5:22 À : Christophe Menant; Terrence W. DEACON Cc : FIS Group Objet : RE: [Fis] The unification of the theories of information based on the cateogry theory Dear Christophé I think you hit on a most interesting problem of how to establish interpretation and agency in a philosophical fra

Re: [Fis] The unification of the theories of information based on the cateogry theory

2018-02-14 Thread Christophe Menant
laws valid everywhere. Another subject interesting to many of us All the best Christophe De : Guy A Hoelzer <hoel...@unr.edu> Envoyé : mardi 13 février 2018 18:18 À : Foundations of Information Science Information Science Cc : Terry Deacon; Christophe