Re: [Fis] list discussions

2008-05-23 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear FIS Colleagues, With due respect to Pedro, my first reaction to Stan's proposed question is a positive very useful. I believe that there are deep issues of randomness or spontaneity, determinism and computability that will emerge from its discussion. Another aspect is whether any order

Re: [Fis] Msg. from W. Riofrio streams of order (III): Logic

2008-06-25 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Walter, These are perfectly ordinary questions that are extraodinarily difficult to answer rapidly. Let me try anyway: 1. The Hegelian structure of thesis - antithesis -synthesis is in my terms abstract and idealized, applicable to linguistic entities. What is the driving force, even in

Re: [Fis] Neuroscience of art

2008-09-21 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Lauri, You wrote: Laws should be independent of each other. Why? Who says so? Cheers, Joseph - Original Message - From: Lauri Gröhn To: fis@listas.unizar.es Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:50 AM Subject: Re: [Fis] Neuroscience of art Hi all, I am

[Fis] Fw: Neuroscience of Art:Insights Leads: Reply to Jerry and Stan

2008-10-01 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Friends, The notes of Jerry and Stan, taken together, give me the chance of clarifying several issues; Jerry wrote: Your post was studied for some time. I would suggest that, from my perspective, that you are developing a internal language that orders your feelings in a manner that is

Re: [Fis] The Fascination of Art

2008-10-04 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Colleagues, I plead guilty to having contributed to the overstretching and apologize herewith. To try to answer Pedro's specific question, I feel that the source of fascination in art definitely goes beyond the art object, the physical antique painting as such. The fascination with art

Re: [Fis] The Fascination of Art

2008-10-05 Thread Joseph Brenner
] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of fis digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: The Fascination of Art (Joseph Brenner) From: Joseph Brenner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 4 October 2008 09:09:41 BST To: Pedro C. Marijuan

Re: [Fis] information(s)

2008-12-06 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear FIS Colleagues, For me, information is a typical English collective noun, with no plural in s, that subtends a number of individuals. These are designated by some modifying phrase, as a piece of information. But I slightly disagree with Guy, since I see the distribution not from zero (the

[Fis] The Assymetry of Information

2009-11-12 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Colleagues, Here is a possible, and timely, FIS discussion topic: The refusal of large numbers of people, especially health professionals, to be vaccinated against H1/N1 flu poses the question of the information, if any, on which they base this decision. If one goes back to the beginning

Re: [Fis] The Assymetry of Information

2009-11-13 Thread Joseph Brenner
is raised for subsequently encountered alternatives. Neither of these biases seem to reflect natural probabilities, although I can imagine that they might have had (still have?) selective value for our ancestors. Regards, Guy on 11/12/09 9:26 AM, Joseph Brenner at joe.bren...@bluewin.ch wrote

Re: [Fis] Information states

2009-11-14 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Colleagues, John's opening of a new topic gives the chance of commenting both on his and on my Assymetry of Information, since both talk about symmetry and symmetry-breaking. John asks how one can make a principled coupling between intrinsic and extrinsic informational entities. I will

Re: [Fis] Information as Asymmetry

2009-11-15 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear FIS Colleagues, I hope that some of you, at least, are as interested as I am by the shift in topic from Assymetry of Information to Information as Assymetry that has taken place. As far as the latter is concerned, I now know much more about the contribution of Leyton and others, its

Re: [Fis] Asymetry and Information: A modest proposal

2009-11-30 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Christophe, I like your approach. Here is something even simpler: the system is the meaning of the information. System and meaning are not totally separable. One's perspective focuses on one or the other, as the case may be. Best wishes, Joseph - Original Message - From:

Re: [Fis] Revisiting the Fluctuon Model

2010-09-28 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Koichiro, Your peripheral remarks were not so to me, but exactly the further grounding in physics that I for one feel necessary. I would like to focus on two statements I found particularly relevant: If information has anything significant in its own right and can stand alone

Re: [Fis] Fluc replies - more. Reply to Gordana

2010-09-29 Thread Joseph Brenner
this back around to logic and Joseph Brenner. Dealing frankly with inconsistencies is paramount here. If our formalism of level is akin to Floridi's Levels of Abstraction, we will be missing something. (These LoAs are formalisms that capture things about the nature of abstraction, but capturing

Re: [Fis] Recapping the discussion? Joseph's Recap

2010-10-15 Thread Joseph Brenner
... or my unanswered question on the materiality of the microphysical laws of nature themselves --as information that acts on information--- appear with more cogency. all the best ---Pedro Joseph Brenner escribió: Dear Friends and Colleagues, The following impressionist recap is intended

Re: [Fis] Tactilizing processing. Resonance

2010-11-01 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Bob and Stan, I also find myself in agreement with you. Resonance is a very good term for a form of reciprocal interaction that defines the entities capable of it. This is what Lupasco called an adequately contradictorial relation that is possible intra- and well as inter-level,

[Fis] Fw: INTELLIGENCE INFORMATION (by Y.X.Zhong)

2010-11-10 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Friends and Colleagues, Distinguished careers in understanding intelligence confront me, a latecomer, in this new project. So the following are just a few comments on the logical-philosophical questions that I see on reading Yi-Xin Zhong's document. First of all, I will be talking only

[Fis] Fw: INTELLIGENCE INFORMATION (by Y.X.Zhong)

2010-11-14 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Gordana, Stan and All, Gordana wrote: From an info-computational approach we may hope to provide a base for the construction of generative explanatory models for the development of intelligence by information processing in living organisms. Stan wrote: Intelligence, I think, lies more in

Re: [Fis] Fw: INTELLIGENCE INFORMATION: A Charicature

2010-11-21 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Colleagues, I have just gone back over the discussion of Intelligence and Information to try to extract the major new thoughts and my conclusion is one of frustration. The introduction of the other thread of the fis digest confused me further, since I could not follow its intention or

Re: [Fis] Fw: INTELLIGENCE INFORMATION: A Charicature. Psychology

2010-11-22 Thread Joseph Brenner
? Shall we see where this track might lead? Best wishes, Joseph - Original Message - From: Loet Leydesdorff To: 'Joseph Brenner' ; 'fis' Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 10:39 PM Subject: RE: [Fis] Fw: INTELLIGENCE INFORMATION: A Charicature Dear Joseph

Re: [Fis] fis Digest, Vol 543, Issue 19

2010-11-22 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Pedro, I beg your indulgence (3rd note) to make one point: Pedro wrote: I understand Joseph lamentations, but do not share them, as logical clarification of an intrinsically evolutionary phenomenon --without any major discontinuity-- as intelligence is (at least in my view), becomes too

[Fis] Fw: INTELLIGENCE INFORMATION (by Y.X.Zhong)

2010-12-11 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear All, I return to the original definition of this project because I am not satisfied with its evolution. There are points in Professor Zhong's perspective on (natural) intelligence that I still would like to call attention to, apart from the connection between intelligence and

[Fis] Fw: reply to Javorsky. Plea for (responsible) dualism

2010-12-12 Thread Joseph Brenner
, and their opposnents actually do with and to information. Best wishes, Joseph - Original Message - From: Robert Ulanowicz u...@umces.edu To: Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu Cc: Karl Javorszky karl.javors...@gmail.com; Joseph Brenner joe.bren...@bluewin.ch; u...@cbl.umces.edu Sent

[Fis] Fw: replies to several. The Key to Time

2011-05-21 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Koichiro, I return to your pertinent summary of May 10 that led me to an unexpected conclusion, half of which you may like and half you may not like. I apologize in advance for the latter. I feel that in point 3. of your note you describe a key to time but you do not use it! 1.

Re: [Fis] Greetings from Varna/FIS Summer School

2011-06-30 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Krassimir, Dear Pedro, Many thanks again to you and your colleagues for all their hard work in making the Varna Conference a success. I would just like to mention one aspect that occurred to me of what might be called a New Information-Scientific Method, as something that emerged from

Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: CfP: Marx is Back - The Importance of...]

2011-07-26 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Colleagues, I can understand Leslie's feeling that a discipline should not be reified - this is the pathetic fallacy. But I completely agree with Pedro that science is embedded in society and its role and function must be compatible with the common good. I note, in this connection, the

Re: [Fis] Fw: The General Information Theory of Sunik

2011-10-03 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Krassimir, Thank you for bringing this document to our attention, for completeness. I would have wished, however, that you had made some comment on it, putting it into relation with your own work and, for example, that of Mark Burgin, which are dismissed out of hand. From my point of

[Fis] Fw: Fw: On Varna and Deacon

2011-10-14 Thread Joseph Brenner
. It dovetails with Rosen's and Conrad's works... best wishes ---Pedro Joseph Brenner escribió: Dear Colleagues, Taken together, the postings of Jamie and Pedro indicate a healthy dissatisfaction with generally available conceptions of information and point to the need for new ones

Re: [Fis] Chemo-informatics as the source of morphogenesis - both practical and logical.

2011-10-18 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Michel, Jerry and Loet, Welcome back to the fray, Jerry, but I recall a kind of gentlemen's agreement we made at our meeting in Liège, namely, that I can find a place for your theory, but you should reciprocally find a place for mine! In the following, I will try to disentangle two major

[Fis] Category Theory and Information. Back to Basics

2011-10-18 Thread Joseph Brenner
and translate meaningfully between them. However this means, as a minimum, accepting the existence and validity of both, as well as the possibility in principle of some areas of overlap, without conflation. Best, Joseph - Original Message - From: Gavin Ritz To: 'Joseph Brenner' Sent

Re: [Fis] Category Theory and Information. Back to Basics

2011-10-28 Thread Joseph Brenner
the existence and validity of both, as well as the possibility in principle of some areas of overlap, without conflation. Best, Joseph - Original Message - From: Gavin Ritz To: 'Joseph Brenner' Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 10:45 AM Subject: RE: [Fis

[Fis] Fw: [Fwd: Re: FW: Meaning Information Theory]

2011-10-28 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Loet, Dear All, Thank you, Loet, for this very clear expression of the state-of-the-art with respect to a dynamic design or measure for meaningful information as associated with negentropy. Today, I would view this position as the analytical skeleton of the real three-level dynamics of

[Fis] Fw: Discussion of Information Science Education

2011-12-03 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Marcin, Gordana, Loet, Krassimir and Colleagues, I did not think I was going to participate in this discussion, being as I am so far outside the place when curricula are established and syllabi needed. Yet when I saw your message, Loet, I was concerned that something very important in

Re: [Fis] Discussion of Information Science Education

2011-12-04 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Gordana and Loet, Ref.: Cat, Jordi. 2007. The Unity of Science. Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. I think you are being too defensive vis à vis the conventional idea of science. The authority of people who have decided to what information science must be limited may be open to

[Fis] Fw: There is no Information Science.

2011-12-18 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Pedro, Dear FIS Colleagues, My thanks and I am sure that of all of us to Pedro for his clear statement of FIS principles in relation to an informational science (IS) syllabus. I would just like to suggest that reference to inter- and transdisciplinarity, in some way, might help to avoid

[Fis] Fw: [Fwd: THEORY AND SCIENCE] From QTQ

2012-01-10 Thread Joseph Brenner
- From: Gyorgy Darvas To: Pedro C. Marijuan ; fis@listas.unizar.es ; whhbs...@sina.com Cc: mjs ; Joseph Brenner ; fislist Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:23 PM Subject: Re: [Fis] [Fwd: THEORY AND SCIENCE] From QTQ I disagree! Theory is a part, an important element of science. Practice

Re: [Fis] Absence and life

2012-05-18 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Colleagues, I am very glad this discussion has started, as (as perhaps no-one but I remembers) I pointed to the potential importance of Deacon's work a year ago, after reading his article What is Missing from Theories of Information? My position is that what is good in this work can be

Re: [Fis] Absence and life

2012-05-21 Thread Joseph Brenner
Leydesdorff To: Joseph Brenner ; fis@listas.unizar.es Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [Fis] Absence and life Dear Joe, Yes, these two notions of interaction information were specified in debate between Klaus Krippendorff and me. See: Krippendorff, K. (2009). Information

[Fis] Fw: The Information Flow

2012-10-27 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Pedro, I and I am sure most of us are grateful when you open up the debate in this way. To go farther, though, people must be ready to ask many questions about familiar concepts such as the following: 1. Are there serious alternatives to Aristotelian causality? 2. Is it possible to

Re: [Fis] Information and Conformal Cyclic Cosmology

2013-05-17 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear John, Dear Sören and All, I think John is basically correct in starting from a physical basis for the origin of information in the universe, but Sören is also correct in that something more is needed to get to meaning. My view is, however, that the latter's cybersemiotics is based on a

[Fis] Information and Logic

2013-05-17 Thread Joseph Brenner
reference to Maimonides in de Waal's book and will be sure to buy it, but those of you who are familiar with Maimonides will be aware of his limitations . . . Best regards, Joseph - Original Message - From: Søren Brier To: 'Joseph Brenner' ; John Collier ; Pedro Clemente

Re: [Fis] Collier's Metaphysics. Bit from It

2013-05-26 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Folks, Julian Barbour wrote a paper entitled Bit from It for the 2011 FQXi Essay Contest, readily accessible on-line at Bit from It - FQXi. It won only 4th prize, but it shows pretty clearly that the It-from-Bit position mistakes abstraction for reality. As Barbour puts it, just because

Re: [Fis] THE SOCIOTYPE: From R. Zimmerman

2013-10-11 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Raquel, Dear Colleagues, I have been following the development of this topic with an interest that is not unmixed with concern. In particular, since we are supposed to deal with 'foundations', with some of the assumptions made by Rainer in his note. First, the reference to levels is

Re: [Fis] fis Digest, Vol 577, Issue 10; Joseph Reply to Jerry

2013-11-08 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Jerry, Thank you as usual for your thought-provoking note, which nevertheless requires the following clarification of your position. You ask, because I assume that your answers to your four questions is no, that there is no tension in the group between the empirical and abstract, given

Re: [Fis] social flow

2013-11-21 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Roly, Dear Pedro, Thank you for taking this thread in a for me very interesting direction. As you know, interesting means what I find my logical system can confirm, improve, validate, etc. The two notes share one feature that one might criticize, namely, that they deal essentially with

[Fis] Fw: social flow. Finding correspondences

2013-11-23 Thread Joseph Brenner
?abstract_id=2355880 . From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 9:53 PM To: Joseph Brenner; Roly Belfer Cc: fis@listas.unizar.es Subject: Re: [Fis] social flow Dear FIS colleagues

Re: [Fis] Article on panpsychism

2014-01-04 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear John, The Koch article is worth reading as a kind of statement within the current reductionist paradigm I believe it is necessary to get beyond. It is all the more insidious because of Koch's research credentials, but it contains all the 'push-button' words that I have seen in his

[Fis] Fw: Social constructivism

2014-01-08 Thread Joseph Brenner
, is meaningless! Is this an achievement? -- to render meaningless the activities within the socially-constructed machinery guided by the socially-constructed theories? In conversation with Joseph Brenner and others I have used the rainbow as a metaphor. The rainbow is a phenomenon that everyone

[Fis] Fw: Responses

2014-01-11 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Hans and All, This is a very useful form of responses, which enables further directed comments. I start with Lars', which is perhaps as Hans says crucial: Lars -- How does QBism differ from Copenhagen? This is a crucial question. It differs not at all in the formalism, and only subtly

[Fis] Fw: Isms Healing the Subject-Object split

2014-01-12 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear All, I think I have discovered what it was that was bothering me about QBism: it was only the particular 'detour' through atomic physics that Hans made, that is, one that requires Bayesian probability to describe its terms (see New Year Lecture). Here are two key tenets of QBism,

Re: [Fis] Probability Amplitudes

2014-01-21 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Hans and Dino, This is a direct question to both of you, to which I have not found a clear answer: are value and amplitude the only parameters that have been assigned to probability? In my theory, the changing value of actuality and potentiality of specific antagonistic process elements

[Fis] Probability Amplitudes in Macroscopic Processes

2014-01-22 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Lars-Göran, Andrei and Hans, As you (I hope) have seen, I am trying to see how the evolution of macroscopic processes can be described in terms of changing probabilities, and I am encouraged to believe this is possible. If you allow the extension from QM, all of the following would seem

[Fis] Varna Conference. Principle for Papers

2014-02-14 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Friends and Colleagues, Congratulations to Pedro and Krassimir on your design for a great meeting! I just take this occasion to mention again an idea of mine, which I think is important, of encouraging speakers to write critically, even primarily, about the work of other active members

[Fis] Fw: [Feedforward II and Anticipation] Joseph Brenner

2014-02-16 Thread Joseph Brenner
, but I much prefer yours. I look forward very much to your comments on the above. Best, Joseph - Original Message - From: Loet Leydesdorff l...@leydesdorff.net To: fis@listas.unizar.es Cc: 'Joseph Brenner' joe.bren...@bluewin.ch Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 11:53 AM Subject

Re: [Fis] Information Science and the City. Trans-in-form-action

2014-06-06 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Francesco, Thank you for a most interesting overview of your work. What I would be most interested in would be a summary of the real processes underlying trans-in-form-action and its relation to information - and trans-information. The use of the prefix 'trans-' in transdisciplinarity is

Re: [Fis] Information Science and the City. Trans-in-form-action

2014-06-07 Thread Joseph Brenner
of information encouraged me to send the above message (without wishing to take any undue credit for myself). Best, Joseph - Original Message - From: Francesco Rizzo To: Joseph Brenner Cc: Pedro C. Marijuan ; fis@listas.unizar.es Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 12:37 PM Subject: Re

Re: [Fis] FIS in Varna. Analogue Computation

2014-07-14 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Colleagues, My first reaction to this suggested project is that the logic and philosophy of information (where I am more comfortable) would have little to contribute. However, analogue computation is an area in which insights from some complex theories of information might be useful.

Re: [Fis] FIS in Varna. Analogue Computation

2014-07-15 Thread Joseph Brenner
discussed the bandwidth of continuous process channels. It is worth looking at. John At 10:28 PM 2014-07-14, Srinandan Dasmahapatra wrote: I think I agree with Joseph Brenner here. Analogue computing is linked to real processes, while living beings find ways of transducing information out

[Fis] Fw: call for vienna 14

2014-07-30 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Shu-Kun, Dear Pedro, Please count me in for any assistance I can give - I live only a short train ride away from Basel. As for participation, it would be very helpful to know already the windows in September you are considering. My personal preference would be as early in September as

[Fis] Krassimir's Information Quadruple and GIT. Quintuples?

2014-07-31 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Krassimir and Colleagues, I have followed this discussion with interest but not total agreement. As I have commented to Krassimir previously, I feel that his system, based on symbols as outlined in his paper, is too static to capture the dynamics of complex information processes and their

[Fis] Energy and Information, Again. Consciousness Perceived

2014-08-03 Thread Joseph Brenner
will not repeat here. Comments welcome, Joseph *Reviewed in SCIENCE, 345:6193, p. 147, 11 July 2014 - Original Message - From: Burgin, Mark To: Joseph Brenner Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 9:19 PM Subject: Re: [Fis] Krassimir's Information Quadruple and GIT

Re: [Fis] The remote Maxwell demon as energy down-converter

2014-08-21 Thread Joseph Brenner
John, Please, if you would, explain the relationship of the theory in this paper to a conception of information. If the 'demon' quote has access to a source of energy unquote, then of course one can draw almost any conclusion one wants. We know from Mark Burgin's note, about which I also

[Fis] Fw: Krassimir's Information Quadruple and GIT. Quintuples?

2014-08-21 Thread Joseph Brenner
some function, as in the paper referred to in John's note, is a formal exercise. Thank you and best wishes, Joseph - Original Message - From: Burgin, Mark To: Joseph Brenner Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 9:19 PM Subject: Re: [Fis] Krassimir's Information Quadruple and GIT. Quintuples

Re: [Fis] Physical Informatics… (J.Brenner)

2014-10-20 Thread Joseph Brenner
the beginning, as information? Please do send me an E-mail copy of the latest version of your book. The one I have is dated December 9, 2011. Best, Joseph - Original Message - From: Bob Logan To: PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ ; fis ; Joseph Brenner Sent: Monday

[Fis] John C. on The Travellers. Protestantism

2014-10-27 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear John, Thank you for your note of October 27 which helped to bring several things into focus for me. First, Pedro's The Travellers can be seen as a questioning of all but some part of any single current approach to information and meaning. Suppose I assume that all existence, including

Re: [Fis] FIS 2015, Workshop on Combinatorics of Genetics, Fundamentals

2014-10-28 Thread Joseph Brenner
Karl, I welcome the intent of your Workshop to deal with real contradictions but I have some doubts that combinatorics by itself suffices. Earlier, you wrote: Therefore, no methodology has evolved of appeasing, soothing, compromise-building among equally valid logical statements that

Re: [Fis] The Travellers

2014-10-30 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Pedro, Dear Sören, Please let me call the attention of both of you to Sören's article in Biosemiotics of 24 May 2012 What Does it Take to Produce Interpretation? Informational, Peircean and Code-Semiotic Views on Biosemiotics. Judging from the abstract, this article criticizes at least

[Fis] Information-as-Process

2014-12-05 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Carolina, Bob L., Bob U., Sören and Krassimir, First of all thanks to Carolina for having launched a most interesting thread, of which I have changed the title since the issues are broader than that of Neuroinformation alone, as Francesco has noted. My first point is a response to

Re: [Fis] Information-as-Process

2014-12-10 Thread Joseph Brenner
...@leydesdorff.net Cc: Joseph Brenner; fis Subject: Re: [Fis] Information-as-Process The problem with this approach (and approaches like it) is that it is descriptive and not explanatory. The distribution of the shape, in my model, can be described, perhaps, but the process or action decision

Re: [Fis] RV: THE FOURTH GREAT DOMAIN OFSCIENCE: INFORMATIONAL? (R.Capurro)

2015-05-19 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear FISers, I have no difficulty in understanding Loet's approach as measuring one form of interdisciplinarity. However, it requires well-defined quantitative entities - classes, categories and journal articles to which they apply. I thus do not think that it exhausts the possibilities of the

Re: [Fis] It from Bit redux . . . Loss of Information

2015-06-15 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Colleagues and Reasoned Opponents, A scientific position may be the object of rational disagreement and discussion, but the 'ganging up' of some individuals on a highly respected colleague is disgraceful and unacceptable. By this note I am suggesting to Pedro that Ericsson-Zenith, Sherman

[Fis] Fw: Philosophy, Computing, and Information - apologies!

2015-06-13 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Colleagues, I completely agree with Krassimir's position and on the importance of the issue on which it taken. Neither he nor I wish to say that there cannot be models and insights for science in religious beliefs, such as the Kabbala, but then John's diagram would be more appropriate if

[Fis] Philosophy, Computing, and Information - apologies!

2015-06-13 Thread Joseph Brenner
- Original Message - From: Joseph Brenner To: fis Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2015 10:13 AM Subject: Fw: [Fis] Philosophy, Computing, and Information - apologies! Dear Colleagues, I completely agree with Krassimir's position and on the importance of the issue on which it taken

[Fis] Fw: It from Bit redux . . . Gain of Information

2015-06-15 Thread Joseph Brenner
of information, adding something to the 'how' side, but there is a lot more to be done here. Best wishes, Joseph - Original Message - From: Loet Leydesdorff To: 'Joseph Brenner' ; 'fis' Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 12:42 PM Subject: RE: [Fis] It from Bit redux . . . Loss of Information

Re: [Fis] It From Bit video. Collier and Muller

2015-05-27 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Srinandan, Dear John and All, At the Vienna Information Summit, I will present a paper in the Symmetry Section of Gyuri Darvas entitled Symmetry and Information; Brothers in Arms. I wished by this title to convey the idea that symmetry and information somehow emerged together from a prior

Re: [Fis] Philosophy, Computing, and Information - apologies! Reply to JC June 13 note

2015-07-01 Thread Joseph Brenner
critique of ‘it-from-bit’ and my ‘proposal’ for going beyond it. Thank you and best regards, Joseph - Original Message - From: John Collier To: Joseph Brenner Cc: fis Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2015 12:45 PM Subject: RE: [Fis] Philosophy, Computing, and Information

[Fis] The Same and Not the Same

2015-07-28 Thread Joseph Brenner
in their dimensionality, with meaning associated with the emergent component with the higher dimensionality. Curious, Joseph - Original Message - From: Robert E. Ulanowicz u...@umces.edu To: John Collier colli...@ukzn.ac.za Cc: l...@leydesdorff.net; 'Joseph Brenner' joe.bren

Re: [Fis] Answer to Mark. Phenomenology and Speculative Realism

2015-08-01 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Mark, Thank you for this note, which points correctly to the fact that there was something missing in the debate. Intersubjectivity is a good word for it, but phenomenology in general is probably no longer the answer, if it ever was. Check out the new book by Tom Sparrow, The End of

Re: [Fis] Answer to Mark

2015-07-30 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear All, This note from Fernando clearly spells out his universe of discourse (practical problems; everyday life). However, in stating that our acts are neither actions nor events... Our acts are phenomenological; but that current information theory is only mathematical, dealing with

Re: [Fis] Answer to the comments made by Joseph

2015-07-25 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Fernando, This is becoming very interesting. I understand your critique, but I do not believe it applies exactly to what I am trying to say. I start from a position that the apodictic statement by Wiener is not or in any case is no longer valid. In my view, the following should be taken

[Fis] Five Momenta. A First Preferred Itinerary

2015-10-23 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Pedro and Colleagues, Pedro's note has brought out more clearly to me the concept of an 'Itinerary' as a path between Momenta. I for one would be willing to accept the discipline that comments should address relations and movement between Momenta in an AGREED UPON SEQUENCE. The one in

Re: [Fis] Mark Johnson. Less is more

2015-10-15 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Mark, I find much novelty in your interesting approach as I read your note of October 1 and this one. This novelty should not be lost by imposing standard patterns of interpretation on it. If we really believe "it's time we confess in science just how little we know about language, that

[Fis] Fw: Sustainability through multilevel research: Energetic Realm-Informational Realm. Social Complexity

2015-12-13 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Pedro, I agree with your presentation here of the dynamics of informational entities and the necessary dominance of the informational realm. But my reaction to your placing the energetic and informational realm in a kind of opposition was a Capurrian 'hm'. What is still and will be always

[Fis] Fw: Sustainability through multilevel research: Bias

2015-12-16 Thread Joseph Brenner
'fis'" <fis@listas.unizar.es Cc: "Joseph Brenner" <joe.bren...@bluewin.ch> Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2015 12:28 PM Subject: Re: [Fis] Sustainability through multilevel research: Energetic Realm-Informational Realm. Social Complexity Dear Joseph and colleagues, Tha

Re: [Fis] The Measurement Problem from the Perspective of an Information-Theoretic Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics

2015-11-26 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear John and All, I have read this paper, but it seems to me that the word 'idealization' has a key place in it. Thus, the statement that 'quantum mechanics is about the structure of information' begs the question of what information is being discussed. Is it not conceivable, in the

[Fis] Fw: Toyabe 2010 [ Information converted to energy ] / Van den Broeck 2010 Thermodynamics of Information: REQUEST TO TERRENCE DEACON

2016-01-14 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Folks, I do not wish to be negative, but I think this example is contaminated by a homunculus. There are so much energy coming into the system from various sources that the alleged result is not surprising. I would be glad to be wrong but the decision should be up to someone like Terry

Re: [Fis] Fw: Information Conservation in black holes

2016-02-12 Thread Joseph Brenner
for reality and one for mathematical reality. The key would seem to me to make sure they are used in their proper respective informational domains. Best, Joseph - Original Message - From: Bruno Marchal To: Joseph Brenner Cc: fis Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:45

[Fis] Fw: Information Conservation in black holes

2016-01-30 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear John, Sorry you have been ill. I agree fully with your statement: All of these explanations, and even stating the problem, require information notions, not just energy as in classical physics. What I object to are statements or implications that information, whether in boundaries or

[Fis] A Meta(information)- scientific comment

2016-01-21 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear FISers, The most scientific aspect of the recent exchanges is their existence. It is obvious that some people feel more comfortable than others in ascribing properties to quantum particles that are characteristic of the thermodynamic world in which we exist, in particular difference (let

[Fis] Fw: Clarifying Posting. Speculative Realism

2016-05-06 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Friends and Colleagues, The last couple of postings have opened the discussion in a direction their authors may not have intended. Bob's felt personal plea for a phenomenological approach to biology, and hence to other sciences, and as the foundation of a philosophy, begs the question of

[Fis] An Agenda of Control

2016-07-13 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Pedro, Most of us would agree that standard Western science does not give a complete answer to questions about life and mind. As we try to seek better foundations in general and for information science in particular, we may be able to benefit from knowledge resources which have not

[Fis] Fw: A Curious Story

2017-01-21 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Pedro and All, Thanks to Pedro again for this thought-provoking theme. We are all in states of greater or lesser ignorance regarding it! Here is just, again, a thought about your quote of Conrad: "when we look at a biological system we are looking at the face of the underlying physics of

Re: [Fis] Scientific Communication and Publishing. Please resend article.

2016-09-26 Thread Joseph Brenner
publishing, maybe we should get rid of the neo-capitalist market system for this as well as other reasons! I also have some comments on Bhaskar but I would like to read the article again. Many thanks. Best regards, Joseph Brenner - Original Message - From: "Mark Johnson"

[Fis] Fw: Scientific communication. Objective and Subjective Probability

2016-10-30 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Francesco and All, The implications of your note go far beyond scientific communication as such, but we can start here. 1. Francesco, you are entirely right to 'open up' the otherwise inert standard concepts of probability to include a qualitative (subjective-objective) component. You

[Fis] Commutativity

2016-11-05 Thread Joseph Brenner
- Original Message - From: Karl Javorszky To: Joseph Brenner Cc: Terrence Deacon ; fis ; John Collier ; Gyorgy Darvas ; Bob Logan ; Andrei Khrennikov ; raf...@capurro.de Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [Fis] Is quantum information the basis of spacetime? Well

Re: [Fis] Commutativity

2016-11-07 Thread Joseph Brenner
'. That principle should apply generally. Thank you. Joseph - Original Message - From: Karl Javorszky To: Joseph Brenner Cc: Terrence Deacon ; fis ; John Collier ; Gyorgy Darvas ; Bob Logan ; Andrei Khrennikov ; raf...@capurro.de Sent: Monday, November 07, 2016 10:22 AM Subject

Re: [Fis] Is quantum information the basis of spacetime?

2016-11-04 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear All, I agree with the consensus I see emerging. Andrei shows the problem of trying to pin down a complex process with a single term - information. And I agree with Rafael that information must have a valence. On the other hand, as such, information cannot be completely defined

[Fis] Brenner and Lupasco logic. Emergent Simplicity

2016-12-11 Thread Joseph Brenner
orsuk-Ulam theorem, A and non-A become T in a dimension lower… Arturo Tozzi AA Professor Physics, University North Texas Pediatrician ASL Na2Nord, Italy Comput Intell Lab, University Manitoba http://arturotozzi.webnode.it/ Messaggio originale---- Da: "Joseph Bre

[Fis] Fw: Fwd: R: Re: Who may proof that consciousness is an Euclidean n-space ??? Logic

2016-12-08 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear Folks, Arturo wrote: "therefore logic, in general, cannot be anymore useful in the description of our world. I'm sad about that, but that's all." The answer is to change logic from one of propositions (Lesniewski-Tarski) or mathematics (Zermelo-Fraenkel) to one of the states of real

[Fis] Fw: A Curious Story

2017-01-12 Thread Joseph Brenner
Dear All, I am sorry but I am still not satisfied with the evolution of this discussion to date. I am still looking forward to some explicit comment on my initial question of why mini black holes would not evaporate. I note that both Alex and Bruno asked the same question, before we have seen

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