Re: [Fis] The Identity of Ethics

2006-04-25 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
Commenting upon Michael's: A term that has been widely used (after Sartre) to stand for integrity was 'authenticity'. I feel that this is deeply important, but I would not exaggerate its connection to 'aloneness' so much. As one who is much (by choice) alone, I realize that I am not REALLY

Re: [Fis] : Reality of Information World?!!!

2006-07-17 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
Responding to Igor -- I don't see how information can be a fundamental category along with space, time, matter -- because it is a triadic concept, requiring a system of interpretance that considers certain configurations of matter in space and/or time to be significant. So, a complixated

Re: [FIS] Re: Concluding replies

2006-10-06 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
: Stanley N. Salthe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [FIS] Re: Concluding replies Commenting on Arne's posting, with which I substantially agree. I find it useful to construct a specification hierarchy of 'realms of nature' (each of which is a cultural construct), as: {physical dynamics {material

Re: [Fis] Response to Arne and Stan

2006-10-30 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
Richard -- A good question! Note first that my statement is minimalist in order just to note its large difference from the other two common conceptions of information. Now, in order to see that the genetic system would come under this general usage of information as carrying meaning, we need to

Re: [Fis] Joseph Tainter's Social and Cultural Complexity

2006-12-14 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
Steven's criticisms of of Joseph's text are good ones. I would like to address one question he raises: I feel a clear definition of complexity is missing from Tainter's discussion and I see distinct concepts being confused. I find myself, for example, wanting a clear specification of complexity

Re: [Fis] Joseph Tainter's Social and Cultural Complexity

2006-12-15 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
Using my last posting for the week, I will support Guy's posting below: As I pointed out in my 1985 book on scale/compositional hierarchically organized systems, the fact that different levels cannot dynamically interact (must be separated by order of magnitude differences if they ARE to be

Re: [Fis] Re: fis Digest, Vol 501, Issue 5

2007-02-05 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
This is my reply to Jerry (acknowledging that John's reply to Jerry below says it as well as -- probably better than -- I can), who said: Stan's comment deserves to be attended to. The many complexities facing us as society can be parsed as follows, using a specification hierarcy: {physical

RE: [Fis] Re: fis Digest, Vol 501, Issue 5

2007-02-07 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
Replying to LOET, who said: Dear colleagues,I agree with most of what is said, but it does not apply to social systems because these -- and to a lesser extent also psychological ones -- operate differently from the hierarchical formations that are generated naturally. That is why we

RE: [Fis] Re: fis Digest, Vol 501, Issue 5

2007-02-16 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
Replying to Pedro, who said: Those hierarchical schemes that with a few categories cover realms and realms of knowledge have an undeniable allure --but are they useful? S: This depends upon the meaning of useful. As my work is in Natural Philosophy, they are useful there in the sense of

RE: [Fis] Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity

2007-03-01 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
and adjacent probable. If this is correct, then it would seem to render the economy as almost pure information. In fact, I think it would render all emergent systems as pure information. Wouldn't it? Regards, Guy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Stanley N. Salthe Sent

RE: [Fis] Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity

2007-03-04 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
Pedro notes : Thanks, Stan and others. Very briefly, I was thinking on the economy (together with most of social structure) as the arrows or bonds that connect the nodes of individuals. Take away the arrows, the bonds, and you are left with a mere swarm of structureless, gregarious individuals.

Re: [Fis] Mind, matter, meaning and information

2007-03-15 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
Commenting on Robin's text, he said: In this paper I combine and extend some ideas of Daniel Dennett with one from Wittgenstein and another from physics. Dennett introduced the concepts of the physical, design and intentional stances (1987), and has suggested (with John Haugeland) that â*œsome

Re: [Fis] Mind, matter, meaning and information

2007-03-17 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
Continuing with Robin -- Thursday, March 15, 2007, 7:46:47 PM, Stanley wrote: Commenting on Robin's text, he said: In this paper I combine and extend some ideas of Daniel Dennett with one from Wittgenstein and another from physics. Dennett introduced the concepts of the physical, design and

Re: [Fis] More introductions to the FIS list

2007-07-07 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
Pedro said -- Dear FIS colleagues, It was nice seeing these artistic oriented presentations (including Stan's! --I sort of remember having read a few years ago an elegant poem of him on entropy... am I right?). et puis, je hésite -- je refuse d'avoir

[Fis] Info meaning

2007-09-25 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
First I comment on Pedro's: The information overload theme (in the evolution of social modes of communication), is really intriguing. Should we take it, say, in its prima facie? I am inclined to put it into question, at least to have an excuse and try to unturn that pretty stone... The question

Re: [Fis] Re: info meaning

2007-10-02 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
Here I react to Guy's Greetings All, In my view meaning  exists (or not) exclusively within systems. It exists to the extent that inputs (incoming information) resonate within the structure of the system. The resonance can either reinforce the existing architecture (confirmation),

Re: [Fis] Info meaning

2007-10-07 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
Bob said: Hi Stan - interesting ideas - I resonate with the thought that the meaning of info is associated with Aritostle's final cause - cheers Bob Here I follow up with an extract from a text I am working on at present, just to amplify this a bit more: Finally, what is the justification for

Re: [Fis] definitions of information

2007-10-31 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
Commenting upon Pedro's Dear FIS colleagues, Sorry that I could barely follow and participate in the recent exchanges (bureaucratic work overload). I was very interested in all the exchanges, particularly in the early stages of the discussion. Notwithstanding the high quality of the postings

Re: [Fis] more thoughts about Shannon info

2007-11-07 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
Commenting first on Bob's and then on Karl's: Bob said-- Dear colleagues - please forgive my lapse in communications. I have been studying the question of Shannon info and have come up with the following thoughts I want to share with you. As always comments are solicited. Rather than answering

RE: [Fis] definitions of information

2007-11-10 Thread Stanley N. Salthe
Pedro said -- Dear FIS colleagues, Adding to Bob's and Karl's on Shannonian info, I am still under the influence of Seth Lloyd (one of the founders of quantum computation) insights about inf physics. For him, the second law is but a statement about information processing, how the underlying

Re: [Fis] On the Origin of Gravity and the Laws of Newton

2010-07-13 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Steven -- -- Forwarded message -- From: Steven Ericsson Zenith ste...@semeiosis.org Date: Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 2:56 PM Subject: [Fis] On the Origin of Gravity and the Laws of Newton To: Foundations of Information Science Information Science fis@listas.unizar.es Dear

Re: [Fis] Curious chronicle

2010-07-19 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Has anyone suggested the function of contact sports to be the 'moral equivalent' of war. Many young men requires this kind of excitement because of their hormone mix. STAN On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es wrote: Dear FISers, Looking for an

Re: [Fis] Curious chronicle

2010-07-22 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Pedro -- This sentiment seems odd to me. This is because I have retired to an out-of-the-way rural area and no longer travel to conferences, and so my only contact with other than family members is through e-mail, including lists. And my wife does all our communications with the locals. I do NOT

Re: [Fis] Beijing FIS Group

2010-09-20 Thread Stanley N Salthe
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.eduwrote: Regarding the question: What is your opinion about Leroy E. Hood' words: Biology Is an Informational Science? In a general sense the meaning is that, although every locale in the world is mediated by history

Re: [Fis] Revisiting the Fluctuon Model

2010-09-24 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Folks -- Comments upon Kirby’s Brenner’s ‘Opening Remarks’ (1) I used Conrad’s early information-based work in developing my conception of the scale/compositional hierarchy as applied to material systems. As a materialist, I may have ‘mis-read’ his work. I think this now, upon glimpsing

[Fis] replies

2010-09-25 Thread Stanley N Salthe
JOSEPH: If the principle of scale hierarchy says that information flows are not possible across scales, perhaps we need to take another look at that principle ;-). S: Let me be more specific; no information flows UNMEDIATED across levels whose changes occur at different scales. Example:

[Fis] replying to Kevin and to Joseph

2010-10-01 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Replying to Kevin -- On Tuesday, Sep 28, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Kevin Kirby ki...@nku.edu wrote: -snip- On flows across scales, this itself need not be mysterious. Take a single photon hitting a rhodopsin molecule in the retina of a vertebrate then [...long chain here...] triggering a

Re: [Fis] replying to Kevin and to Joseph

2010-10-02 Thread Stanley N Salthe
in the current context? Isn’t the important thing that information often does percolate across levels? Regards, Guy On 10/1/10 1:23 PM, Stanley N. Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu wrote: Replying to Kevin -- On Tuesday, Sep 28, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Kevin Kirby ki...@nku.edu mailto: ki...@nku.edu

Re: [Fis] [Fwd: physics and information]-From Jacob Lee

2010-10-06 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Replying to Guy -- You are right. My favorite examples of signals moving across scales (e.g.,direct interactions) are (a) lightning, where a signal from the planet scale system directly contacts an organism at a lower scale, and (b) cancer, where a single cell can destroy a multicellular

Re: [Fis] Recapping the discussion? Joseph's Recap

2010-10-15 Thread Stanley N Salthe
I would like to comment upon Conrad's statement: When we look at a biological system we are looking at the face of the underlying physics of the universe... The picture is not one of simple upscale percolation. The higher levels act down scale on the lower levels to redefine their fundamental

Re: [Fis] Recapping the discussion? Joseph's Recap

2010-10-16 Thread Stanley N Salthe
-boun...@listas.unizar.es] *On Behalf Of *Stanley N Salthe *Sent:* Friday, October 15, 2010 3:35 PM *To:* fis@listas.unizar.es *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Recapping the discussion? Joseph's Recap I would like to comment upon Conrad's statement: When we look at a biological system we are looking

[Fis] Stan to Loet

2010-10-21 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Loet -- On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Loet Leydesdorff l...@leydesdorff.net wrote: Dear Stan, Wasn’t it Tycho Brahe’s suscipio descipiendo, descipio suscipiendo? Nothing but uncertainty; if order emerges, selection mechanisms must have been specified. S: If uncertainty emerges,

Re: [Fis] Tactilizing processing

2010-10-29 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Jorge -- Then, it is hard to get away from the model where, in 'downward causation', large scale signals impact simultaneously many small scale processes, while in upward causation, small scale signals need to accumulate into some kind of ensemble message. But Conrad 'fluctuons' seem to be trying

Re: [Fis] Tactilizing processing

2010-10-30 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Bob -- On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Robert Ulanowicz u...@umces.edu wrote Subject: Re: [Fis] Tactilizing processing To: Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu Cc: u...@cbl.umces.edu Quoting Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu: I suggested that a single small scale

Re: [Fis] Tactilizing processing

2010-10-31 Thread Stanley N Salthe
the precision or definiteness of the lower scale 'messages', which are still a kind of 'mass action', but with clearer, more reliable and less muddy, 'colors'. STAN On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 5:43 PM, Robert Ulanowicz u...@umces.edu wrote: Quoting Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu

[Fis] Fwd: [Fwd: Discussion Colophon] From J.Brenner

2010-11-04 Thread Stanley N Salthe
-- Forwarded message -- From: Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu Date: Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 10:03 AM Subject: Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Discussion Colophon] From J.Brenner To: Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es A comment on Joseph's concluding statement: It seems clear to me

Re: [Fis] Fwd: [Fwd: Discussion Colophon] From J.Brenner

2010-11-05 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Of *Stanley N Salthe *Sent:* Thursday, November 04, 2010 3:05 PM *To:* fis@listas.unizar.es *Subject:* [Fis] Fwd: [Fwd: Discussion Colophon] From J.Brenner -- Forwarded message -- From: *Stanley N Salthe* ssal...@binghamton.edu Date: Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 10:03 AM Subject: Re: [Fis

Re: [Fis] INTELLIGENCE INFORMATION (by Y.X.Zhong)

2010-11-13 Thread Stanley N Salthe
[mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] *On Behalf Of *Stanley N Salthe *Sent:* den 13 november 2010 23:03 *To:* fis@listas.unizar.es *Subject:* Re: [Fis] INTELLIGENCE INFORMATION (by Y.X.Zhong) Concerning: The minimal claim would be that there is no intelligence without information. For an agent

[Fis] footnote to fluctuon discussion

2010-11-20 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Folks -- This cut is Figure 1 from Sejnowsky, T., 2006. The computational self. * Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences* 1001: 262-271. Note that the levels are found to be orders of magnitude different in size. No change in any single unit at any level can have an effect at the next

Re: [Fis] fis Digest, Vol 543, Issue 19 (John Collier) and footnote to fluctuon discussion (Stanley N Salthe)

2010-11-21 Thread Stanley N Salthe
discussion (Stanley N Salthe) *From: *Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu *Date: *November 20, 2010 9:18:18 AM EST *To: *...@listas.unizar.es *Subject: **[Fis] footnote to fluctuon discussion* Folks -- This cut is Figure 1 from Sejnowsky, T., 2006. The computational self. * Annals

[Fis] Fwd: Doctrine of Limitation

2010-11-26 Thread Stanley N Salthe
As my second posting for the week: -- Forwarded message -- From: Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu Date: Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [Fis] Doctrine of Limitation To: Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es Replying to Pedro, who asked: Optimality

[Fis] replies to Walter, loet Joseph

2010-11-30 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Replying to Walter -- On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 8:41 PM, walter.riof...@terra.com.pe wrote: Dear Colleagues, It seems that a good start point is to look at the “dissipative structures world”. And we could ask if in every dissipative structure it is possible to find information and/or

[Fis] reply to Javorsky

2010-12-03 Thread Stanley N Salthe
*Replying to Karl, who said:* one can use a stable model used by neurology and psychology to come closer to understanding how our brain works. This can help to formulate the thoughts Pedro mentioned being obscure. One pictures the brain as a quasi-meteorological model of an extended world

Re: [Fis] reply to Javorsky. Plea for (responsible) dualism

2010-12-09 Thread Stanley N Salthe
| University of Maryland University of Florida | Email u...@cbl.umces.edu Gainesville, FL 32611-8525 USA | Web http://www.cbl.umces.edu/~ulan -- Quoting Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu: *Replying

[Fis] Replies to Walter Loet

2010-12-18 Thread Stanley N Salthe
As my last for this week: Replying to Walter -- The dark matter and dark energy examples are not very strong as examples of demonstrating discoveries rather than invention! These are stand-ins, just names, for disparities between predictions and observations. They are provisionally (I hope!)

Re: [Fis] Replies to Walter Loet

2010-12-20 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Replying to Loet -- On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 1:59 AM, Loet Leydesdorff l...@leydesdorff.netwrote: Replying to Loet -- Your distinction between the backward looking institutional viewpoint and the forward looking evolutionary perspective is cogent, but it plays down the fact that the

Re: [Fis] reply to Javorsky. Plea for (responsible) trialism

2011-01-06 Thread Stanley N Salthe
One of the most special properties of science -- indeed its core that differentiates it from natural philosophy -- is the practice of testing hypotheses. Leaving aside the 'human' weaknesses involved here, there is, however, the 'Duhem-Quine thesis' to be faced. In order to test an hypothesis,

Re: [Fis] Future discussions

2011-01-19 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Tagging on after Joseph -- On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 9:19 PM, joe.bren...@bluewin.ch joe.bren...@bluewin.ch wrote: Dear Pedro and All, Thank you for your note and the ambitious program. My brief comments by theme: --Theme 1: Historical Foundations of Modern Science. Sounds very

[Fis] Replies to Gavin Jerry

2011-01-29 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Gavin -- I send this reply to you, but, since we on this list are allowed only two messages per week, I will reserve sending it to the list until later in the week. On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 6:41 AM, Gavin Ritz garr...@xtra.co.nz wrote: Hi there Stan SS: Info theory presumably applies to

Re: [Fis] On Stan's reply to Gavin

2011-01-31 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Robin -- On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:42 AM, Robin Faichney ro...@robinfaichney.orgwrote: Saturday, January 29, 2011, 9:39:09 PM, Stanley wrote: On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 6:41 AM, Gavin Ritz garr...@xtra.co.nz wrote: SS: Info theory presumably applies to everything and anything. GR: It was

[Fis] replies to Gavin, Guy, Jerry

2011-02-09 Thread Stanley N Salthe
As u first for the week: On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Gavin Ritz garr...@xtra.co.nz wrote: Hi Stan Using my last message for the week, Reacting to the below(s): As a materialist, I see the deformations initiated by Guy's propagated waves (e.g., as sensations) as forming the basis for

[Fis] Reply to Jerry

2011-03-06 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Replying to Jerry (with implications for the postings of our Chinese members) -- On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 9:43 PM, Jerry LR Chandler jerry_lr_chand...@me.com wrote: (Pedro: Please Post to FIS) James Hannam, Stan, Pedro, List: Thank you for taking the time to express your point of view. For

[Fis] replies to Steven and James

2011-03-12 Thread Stanley N Salthe
As my second posting for the week: Replying to Steven and James -- On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 6:46 PM, Steven Ericsson-Zenith ste...@semeiosis.org wrote: Dear Stan, You wrote: On Mar 6, 2011, at 12:42 PM, Stanley N Salthe wrote: ... There can be no 'objective' knowledge of properties

[Fis] replies to Steven, Gary, and Jerry

2011-03-16 Thread Stanley N Salthe
As my first posting for this week -- Replying to Steven -- On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Steven Ericsson-Zenith ste...@semeiosis.org wrote: On Mar 12, 2011, at 5:52 AM, Stanley N Salthe wrote: ... On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 6:46 PM, Steven Ericsson-Zenith ste...@semeiosis.org wrote

[Fis] replying to James, Jerry

2011-03-26 Thread Stanley N Salthe
As my last posting for this week: reacting to James' fine summary -- On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 7:02 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es wrote: -snip- A second, smaller camp of historians of science where I have pitched my own tent want to know what caused modern science. They

Re: [Fis] Discussion colophon--James Hannam. Orders and Ordering Principles

2011-04-01 Thread Stanley N Salthe
It seems obvious to me that any property held by a very complex entity (e.g., human being), IF it can be modeled, then that model can be used to generalize that property ANYWHERE we wish to. On these grounds I have been busy working on 'physiosemiosis' using the triadic formulation of semiosis of

[Fis] exchanges with Gordana

2011-04-02 Thread Stanley N Salthe
On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 4:12 PM, Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic gordana.dodig-crnko...@mdh.se wrote: Dear Stan, Ø The key is whether the trait involved can be modeled; on these grounds it has not yet been shown that 'qualia' can be generalized beyond the human experience, yet even a child can see,

Re: [Fis] ON INFORMATION THEORY--Mark Burgin

2011-04-10 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Replying to Gavin -- I think you make the 'error of misplaced concreteness'. Information theory -- and all theories and laws are modeling tools, not actual phenomena. So, it is also true that when an apple falls it is not being pulled by gravitation. Gravitation is our way of understanding the

[Fis] testing

2011-09-01 Thread Stanley N Salthe
I am having problems communicating with lists, So I am trying to see if this gets through. STAN ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis

Re: [Fis] Chemical information: a field of fuzzy contours ?

2011-09-17 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Michel -- Organic chemistry was known to be the most difficult course in Columbia University. But I got interested in it, worked very hard constantly, and I achieved an 'A'. But what you say here indicates several orders of magnitude more difficulty than what I played with in university. For

[Fis] Fwd: Chemical information: a field of fuzzy contours ?

2011-09-24 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Michel -- Regarding: Now, I ask you the following: please can you provide an extremely simple example (the most simple you could imagine) of situation in which you can say: in this situation, information is ... . Chemical information is welcome, but an example from physics would be great, too.

Re: [Fis] Category Theory and Information. Back to Basics

2011-10-28 Thread Stanley N Salthe
by this math? STAN Cheers, Joseph - Original Message - *From:* Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu *To:* joe.bren...@bluewin.ch ; fis@listas.unizar.es *Sent:* Tuesday, October 18, 2011 11:16 PM *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Category Theory and Information. Back to Basics Joseph -- SS

Re: [Fis] Discussion of Information Science Education

2011-12-03 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Regarding: Information Science is a perfect tool for integration of curriculum, especially in the context of Liberal Arts education. Which other concept, if not information, can be applied in all possible contexts of education? I would point out that there have been two previous disciplines that

Re: [Fis] Discussion of Information Science Education

2011-12-05 Thread Stanley N Salthe
And it could feature in 'Science for Non-Majors' courses as well. STAN On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Guy A Hoelzer hoel...@unr.edu wrote: Hi All, I agree with those who are suggesting that Information Science makes sense as a widely useful way to think about different scientific

Re: [Fis] THEORY AND SCIENCE From QTQ

2012-01-11 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Bob -- Agreed. The way I see it is that there are two orientations in science, and these depend upon personality. One is the strategy of confirmation (of a favored theory), the other is the strategy of testing (of other's theories). The gist of confirmation is to conjure, and then firm up, a

Re: [Fis] FW: [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

2012-03-17 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Concerning the meaning (or effect) of information (or constraint) in general, I have proposed that context is crucial in modulating the effect -- in all cases. Thus: it would be like the logical example: Effect = context a x Constraint ^context b STAN On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 2:18 PM,

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-10-21 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Pedro -- it is of interest to me that On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 3:38 PM, PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es wrote: Dear FISers, Continuing with the comments on the how versus the what, it is an important topic in mammalian (vertebrate) nervous systems. They are

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-10-27 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Pedro -- The Aristotelian causal categories are conceptual tools, providing language for distinguishing aspects of a scene. Without them we are liable to miss certain aspects of nature. For example, Francis Bacon eliminated final cause from science discourse, explicitly stating that finality can

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-11-13 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Bruno said -- but this does not mean that Mechanism is a good *explanation* of anything. On the contrary, I prefer to look at it as a tool, perhaps a simplifying tool, to *formulate* the problems (notably the mind-body problem), to explain it is not yet solved, even in that simplifying frame,

[Fis] dark matter

2012-12-29 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Gordana has said: Information and Energy/Matter What can we hope for from studies of information related to energy/matter (as it appears for us in space/time)? Information is a concept known for its ambiguity in both common, everyday use and in its specific technical applications throughout

[Fis] Fwd: It's (Almost) Alive! Scientists Create a Near-Living Crystal | Wired Science | Wired.com

2013-02-04 Thread Stanley N Salthe
-- Forwarded message -- From: Malcolm Dean malcolmd...@gmail.com Date: Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 11:14 PM Subject: Fwd: It's (Almost) Alive! Scientists Create a Near-Living Crystal | Wired Science | Wired.com To: Stanley N. Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu -- Forwarded message

Re: [Fis] [Fwd: SV: Science, Philosophy and Information. An Alternative Relation] S.Brier

2013-02-11 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Søren -- Your science without philosophy is what we have mostly been having since the industrial revolution. In this period sciences has mostly been the handmaid of engineering and technology, following Francis Bacon's recommendation. Now that our culture has captured and partly destroyed much

Re: [Fis] THE SOCIOTYPE: SOCIAL RELATIONSHIPS AND BEYOND

2013-10-08 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Krassimir -- you said: Social organization is a separate level of living matter hierarchy with specific “emerged” [Ashby] features. There is no direct “smooth” transition from one level of living matter to another. What is common for all levels of living matter organization are the “information

Re: [Fis] Praxotype

2013-10-15 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Kark, all -- I have question about this numbers -- words concept. For users of a given language much an be communicated by connotation as well as denotation. It seems to me that the matching of numbers to words would not encompass this -- would it? As well, what about synonyms with slightly

Re: [Fis] reply to Loet

2013-11-01 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Loet -- You wrote: This is the case for natural systems and engineered systems (Herbert Simon). However, above the individual the hierarchy is inverted because collectively the communication is faster than the individual can reflexively follow. S: In general, while smaller scale systems can

Re: [Fis] reply to Loet

2013-11-02 Thread Stanley N Salthe
As my last posting for the week ... Loet, Gordana -- Loet Leydesdorff 3:21 AM (6 hours ago) to *Инга*, me, fis S: (Nothing can go against the 'entropy law'.) A nice example for you might be communication over distances by flashing lights using the Morse code. The actual local operations

Re: [Fis] reply to Loet

2013-11-04 Thread Stanley N Salthe
as a circular motion (bottom-up--top-down— and-back-again)? Just a thought. All the best, Gordana http://www.mrtc.mdh.se/~gdc/ From: Loet Leydesdorff l...@leydesdorff.net Date: Saturday, November 2, 2013 8:21 AM To: 'Stanley N Salthe' ssal...@binghamton.edu, 'fis' fis@listas.unizar.es

[Fis] QBism

2014-01-07 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Here I advance a viewpoint for Hans. There has been an ongoing critique of the very scientific viewpoint that you eschew -- namely the notion that there is an objective world out there that we might discover. This attack on science as it has been is known as social constructivism, and it is

Re: [Fis] Social constructivism

2014-01-08 Thread Stanley N Salthe
In my last posting for the week, I Reply to Hans -- QBism does not change any of the impressive successes of quantum mechanics. It simply says that quantum mechanics is a very complex, abstract encoding of the experiences of generations of scientists interacting with atomic systems. S: These

[Fis] replies to Loet Joseph

2014-02-19 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Replying to Loet and Joseph: Loet: I am not sure that you mean this with actuality. (which seems an Aristotelian notion to me). S: I have been using 'Actuality' (and 'Reality') as proposed by: Roth G, Schwegler H (1990) Self-organization, emergent properties and the study of the world. In

Re: [Fis] [Fwd: closing the session] John Prpic

2014-04-28 Thread Stanley N Salthe
With hierarchy theory serving as a dressmaker's dummy, these statements: From Guy: *I think of collective intelligence as synonymous with collective information processing*. I would not test for its existence by asking if group-level action is smart or adaptive, nor do I think it is relevant to

[Fis] information.energy

2014-08-03 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu 9:32 AM (0 minutes ago) to Joseph Joseph -- Commenting on: We may agree that, if they are not identical, energy and information always accompany one another and may have emerged together from some as yet incompletely defined substrate. However, they may

Re: [Fis] information.energy

2014-08-04 Thread Stanley N Salthe
, but the concept of information (its history) tends to imply interaction. STAN On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 11:13 PM, Robert E. Ulanowicz u...@umces.edu wrote: Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu 9:32 AM (0 minutes ago) to Joseph Joseph -- Commenting on: ... Is there not also a sense

Re: [Fis] Fw: Krassimir's Information Quadruple and GIT. Quintuples?

2014-08-25 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Bob wrote: Recall that some thermodynamic variables, especially work functions like Helmholz Gibbs free energies and exergy all are tightly related to information measures. In statistical mechanical analogs, for example, the exergy becomes RT times the mutual information among the molecules S:

Re: [Fis] Physical Informatics… (J.Brenner)

2014-10-20 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Bob -- I think the viewpoint on information being expressed by Gerhard is that which sees information to be embodied in configuration/conformation. If a configured entity is in the world it necessarily will encounter other configurations/conformations which will result in an 'interpretation' by

[Fis] Fwd: Beginnings and ends---Steps to a theory of reference significance

2015-01-19 Thread Stanley N Salthe
-- Forwarded message -- From: Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es Date: Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [Fis] Beginnings and ends---Steps to a theory of reference significance To: Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu Good comment! But not only to me, it has

Re: [Fis] MEPP

2015-01-10 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Terry -- Replying T: Stan: Abiotic dissipative structures will degrade their gradients as fast as possible given the bearing constraints. They are unconditional maximizers. Life that has survived has been able to apply conditions upon its entropy production, but that does not mean that it has

[Fis] MEPP

2015-01-09 Thread Stanley N Salthe
TD: Autogenesis is also not a Maximum Entropy Production process because it halts dissipation before its essential self-preserving constraints are degraded and therefore does not exhaust the gradient(s) on which its persistence depends. S: Abiotic dissipative structures will degrade their

[Fis] Intelligence Science

2015-03-02 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Stanley N Salthe wrote: Pedro -- Here are my reactions : Intelligence Science is a new science. It is the scientific spirit applied to thought and mental processes and phenomena; it is an emergent multidisciplinary direction of research. At the same time, it represents a long-standing

Re: [Fis] Philosophy, Computing, and Information - apologies!

2015-06-15 Thread Stanley N Salthe
://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYJhl=en *From:* Fis [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] *On Behalf Of *Stanley N Salthe *Sent:* Sunday, June 14, 2015 3:14 PM *To:* fis *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Philosophy, Computing, and Information - apologies! Krassimir -- Thanks. Now I see what your

Re: [Fis] Philosophy, Computing, and Information - apologies!

2015-06-12 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Pedro -- Your list: physical, biological, social, and Informational is implicitly a hierarchy -- in fact, a subsumptive hierarchy, with the physical subsuming the biological and the biological subsuming the social. But where should information appear? Following Wheeler, we should have:

Re: [Fis] THE FOURTH GREAT DOMAIN OF SCIENCE: INFORMATIONAL? - What is a discipline?

2015-05-23 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Bob-- As one who has strayed from the Darwinian discipline of evolutionary biology (my erstwhile field), I can say that I have 'paid the price'. But I have had a wonderful time exploring wherever my thinking has gone. I think the discipline has in a sense guided me anyway, as turning away from it

Re: [Fis] Fw: It-from-Bit and information interpretation of QM

2015-06-30 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Terry, list -- Terry wrote: We should not expect such a quip to be a sufficient explanation of information in all its complexity. It is merely a useful mnemonic (coined also by MacKay as a distinction that makes a difference) that captures both Shannon's logic and Bateson's cybernetic

Re: [Fis] Locality & Five Momenta . . .

2015-10-30 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Marcus wrote: – I find myself thinking Five Momenta must represent five types of localities. I ask if that “smells right” to you. If so, I would think that “localizing hierarchies” would also be needed. For example, I see: 1) passive descriptions of Nature (aka natural philosophy, general

[Fis] hierarchy

2015-10-21 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Pedro wrote: I see but five different and interrelated "momenta" that should be aligned for the hypothetical advancement of the common info field. The first one corresponds to philosophy, as the critical playground where dissatisfaction with the existing views should conduce to attempting more

[Fis] life cycles

2015-10-05 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Pedro wrote: Unfortunately, the neglect of the life cycle is almost universal. Neither neuroscientists nor psychologists nor social scientists are sufficiently aware of this invisible "water" that permeates all living stuff. Echoing some old evolutionary statement, everything should made sense

Re: [Fis] Information and Locality Introduction

2015-09-11 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Pedro wrote" >Most attempts to enlarge informational thought and to extend it to life, economies, societies, etc. continue to be but a reformulation of the former ideas with little added value. S: Well, I have generalized the Shannon concept of information carrying capacity under 'variety'...

Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Information is a linguistic description of structures]--T...

2015-10-01 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Loet wrote: I suggest to distinguish between three levels (following Weaver): A. (Shannon-type) information processing ; B. meaning sharing using languages; C. translations among coded communications. So, here we have a subsumptive hierarchy" {reduction of possibilities {interpretation

Re: [Fis] Sustainability through multilevel research: The Lifel, Deep Society Build-A-Thon - 1

2015-12-12 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Loet -- A metabiolgy does not imply that there would not be more-than-biological properties and processes going on. We would not bother to identify a higher level unless it had some of its own emergent properties. STAN On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 5:35 AM, Loet Leydesdorff

Re: [Fis] Sustainability through multilevel research: The Lifel, Deep Society Build-A-Thon - 1

2015-12-18 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Nikhil -- Leaving aside details of hierarchical structure, I point out, concerning economics: It seems that you have in mind a global economic system in your planning. Is that so? I think that the current global capitalist system would need to be eschewed. Then, this also would seem to involve

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