Re: [Fis] The Identity of Ethics

Dear Michael and colleagues, Am afraid I cannot make such elegant a response to your comments as Stan has done. Both the integrity of the individual and his/her contemplation of the natural environment appear indeed as crucial factors for the ethical standpoint. I do not see very clearly how

Re: [Fis] The Identity of Ethics

Dear colleagues, If ethics relates mostly to the quest for the good or for the good reasons of our social behavior, apparently it can be treated as another discipline --really? An initial complication is about the subject --good... to whom? It maybe one's personal interests, or his/her

Re: [Fis] Limited info

At 18:41 21/06/2006, you wrote: Pedro -- OK, I think I see your basic point. If so, then we do agree because I have concluded (tentatively) that, in the context of Universal disequibilibrium, the principle of least action can be explained by the maximum entropy production principle [e.g., the

Re: [Fis] QI-session: concluding remarks

Dear Andrei and colleagues, Thanks a lot for your re-capping of the session. It is a very thoughtful perspective on information from the quantum side. My only comments would relate to your (partial) identification of models, reality, and mathematics. It sounds too strong to my hears. We have

[Fis] Re: Concluding reply: social construction of human knowledge

Dear Andrei and FIS colleagues, Your expression, days ago, about information transformers is very suggestive in the sense that it highlights far better than other terms (e.g., proposed by complexity theoreticians: information gatherers information users) what happens, say, to an

Re: [Fis] Re: request - Biological Computing

Dear John and colleagues, As usual I am having too short a time (will attempt to answer properly next week, also to James and Jerry), but your reflections connecting with mechanics and computability have initially reminded me a rather obscure paper by Michel Conrad and Efim Liberman, where

Re: [Fis] INTRODUCING SOCIAL AND CULTURAL COMPLEXITY

Dear Joe, and FIS colleagues Given that I will be away for several days (trip--and not computer availability), let me rush to make a few anticipated comments on ideas I would like to rewrite in the future. First of all, it is an exciting, scholarly piece you have prepared. Thanks! Maybe I

Re: [Fis] Joseph Tainter's Social and Cultural Complexity

Dear FIS colleagues, I disagree with the comments by Steven and Stan on the nature of complexity. How can one substantiate and quantify social complexity if the previous complexity within the society's individuals has not been solved? At the time being, there is no accepted rigorous

RE: [Fis] Social and Cultural Complexity

Dear Loet and colleagues, see interleavings: At 20:49 19/12/2006, you wrote: Dear Pedro: 1. You are changing the subject from social and cultural complexity to the nature of complexity. Thus, our previous communications seem to be discardable as irrelevant. ... I don't expect anybody to

[Fis] Knowledge and social complexity

Dear FIS colleagues, A litle bit late, but best wishes for the New Year! One of these days Joe will recap the exchanges we have had on social complexity. In the interim, I have a couple of abstruse points somehow related to the intrinsic / extrinsic theme. First, that the notion of

[Fis] information/complexity limits

Dear FIS colleagues, In Nature 444, 9 Nov. 2006, there is an experimental paper on quantum limits to heat flow and also to electronic current. It is quite interesting that the editorial comments by the Journal relate to maximum information content and foundations of information physics (p.

Re: [Fis] Re: Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity

Dear Igor and colleagues, Your question is fascinating, perhaps at the time being rather puzzling or even un-answerable... What are the complexity limits of societies? Our individual limits are obvious ---the size of natural bands depended both on ecosystems and on the number of people with

RE: [Fis] Re: fis Digest, Vol 501, Issue 5

Dear colleagues, Maybe I should postpone these comments and have a careful reading of Bob's paper, John's list of bionfo articles, and the many well-crafted arguments exchanged these days---but as usual one is overwhelmed... On the discussion track about complexity info limits (followed by

Re: [Fis] Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity

Dear Igor and colleagues, I have the impression that there is an agreement about the existence of biological and sociocultural constraints that impact on our ability to understand and manage socioeconomic complexity. These constraints are organized hierarchically, as Stan puts it,

Re: [Fis] Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity

Dear Igor and Stan, Just a couple of pills to continue the e-conversation. Rather than an outlandish theme, I consider this discussion of social complexity as central to FIS agenda and --should be crucial-- to the new science of this century. it is so obvious that our personal limitations and

Re: [Fis] Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity

Dear colleagues, As for the first track (planning vs. markets) I would try to plainly put the informational problem in terms of distinction on the adjacent (Guy has also argued in a similar vein). Social structures either in markets or in central plans become facultative instances of

RE: [Fis] Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity

Thanks, Stan and others. Very briefly, I was thinking on the economy (together with most of social structure) as the arrows or bonds that connect the nodes of individuals. Take away the arrows, the bonds, and you are left with a mere swarm of structureless, gregarious individuals. Change the

[Fis] collective mind

Dear FIS colleagues, An additional aspect of social complexity, not much focused in general, is the group capability to transcend individual limitations. Collective intelligence, collective mind, is what results from the ability of individuals to influence and be influenced by others,

[Fis] Social Complexity: concluding comments

Dear FIS collegues, It was not possible for Joe sending his concluding comments to the session (at the time being he is involved in several trips and in general has been caught in a real avalanche of work these months). So, we have talked during this session, as usual, on a number of

[Fis] about fis discussions

Dear FIS colleagues, During last five years we have had quite many discussion sessions in a row (for the new parties arrived recently, there are a couple of web sites where messages are systematically archived--see below). As suggested by some discussants, having some long pause was needed

Re: [Fis] about fis discussions

Dear FIS colleagues, About the approaches to the information concept commented by Karl, Loet, John, and Stan, let me argue that some of them have a rather narrow conceptual domain of applicability. In Karl's approach I have already argued that his highly suggestive conflation of the

Re: [Fis] about fis discussions (2)

Dear FIS colleagues, Thanks a lot for the responses. It is nice that we will have a good theme to deal with during these months of lull (the planned sessions will start around beginings of September)... Ted has made a very valiant presentation on fundamental aspects of our strategy. Time

Re: [Fis] about fis discussions (2)

Dear FIS colleagues, We have had a couple of self-introductions these two days, Robin and Javier. It may be a good idea that other parties recently arrived into the list follow this trend, and introduce themselves during these weeks of lull. Actually I agree, but partially, in what Robin

Re: [Fis] FIS mailing list

Dear colleagues, At 12:08 27/06/2007, you wrote: Though I am interested in the logic and evolution of cooperation in living systems in general, the special focus of my thesis is directed towards human social systems and the role that technology plays in the unfolding of cooperative action

[Fis] More introductions to the FIS list

Dear FIS colleagues, It was nice seeing these artistic oriented presentations (including Stan's! --I sort of remember having read a few years ago an elegant poem of him on entropy... am I right?). Hopefully, more people of the list will venture into this humanistic arena these vacation weeks.

[Fis] ANNOUNCING THE 12th SESSION

Announcing the 12th FIS Discussion Session: ON INFORMATION AND MEANING The Relativity of Information and Its Relationship to Materiality, Meaning and Organization Chaired by: Robert K. Logan Professor Emeritus Department of Physics University of Toronto

Re: [Fis] info meaning

Dear Bob and colleagues, Thanks for the scholarly work. It was nice reading the vast landscape, historical and otherwise, you have covered around that new biotic interpretation of information as Propagating Organization or POE. Perhaps in this list we have already arrived to a truce on

Re: [Fis] Re: info meaning

Dear colleagues, Answering to a couple of Jerry's questions, Under what circumstances can the speaker's meaning or the writer's meaning be _exact_? Is _meaning_ a momentary impulse with potential for settling into a local minimum in the biochemical dynamic? A previous point could

Re: [Fis] info meaning

Dear colleagues, What if meaning is equivalent to zero? I mean, if we backtrack to the origins of zero, we find those obscure philosophers related to Buddhism in India, many centuries ago (Brahmagupta, 600 ad). It was something difficult to grasp, rather bizarre, the fruit of quite a long

Re: [Fis] An invitation

Dear Bob, Many thanks for the info on your splendid book. Let me pen a couple of brief aspects related to the publisher description: At 03:27 27/11/2007, you wrote: Building on his previous study, The Sixth Language (2000), and making use of emer-gence theory, Logan seeks to explain how

[Fis] concluding the session season greetings

Dear FIS colleagues, It is time to put a formal end to the ongoing information and meaning session, and return to the freewheeling mode. Let us thank Bob for his thoughtful Introduction and responses... As usual, during these weeks, we will have the Xmas pause, and then will wait for 2008

[Fis] Informational Bookkeeping

Dear FIS colleagues, A very interesting comment by Bob about energy as a bookkeeping device in the other discussion track motivates these rough reflections. Actually, within the culture of mechanics (following Frank Wilczek) energy appears as the more reliable concept, beyond its cousins force

[Fis] Concluding the Lecture!

Dear colleagues, this New Year Lecture is over. Our invitee will make his final statements and ALL should abide by the courtesy constraint of not replying further... Thanks Terry for all your informational work! Best--Pedro BlackBerry de movistar, allí donde estés está tu oficin@

Re: [Fis] Answer to Mark. Phenomenology and Speculative Realism

Dear Plamen and colleagues, What you propose is an excellent initiative, besides the multidisciplinary nature of that compilation may inspire a genuine dialog on today's sciences and phenomenology. As for Marcos' response, he is quite right (my hurried message was not very accurate with some

Re: [Fis] NEW DISCUSSION SESSION: THE BIOLOGIC

Thanks Bob, in a while Louis himself will send his kickoff text and presentation file (not me!) --Pedro BlackBerry de movistar, allí donde estés está tu oficin@ -Original Message- From: Bob Logan Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2016 12:50:25 To: PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN

[Fis] _ MODERATION NOTE

Participants are kindly reminded that only two messages per week are allowed. BlackBerry de movistar, allí donde estés está tu oficin@ -Original Message- From: Louis H Kauffman Sender: Fis Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 00:18:08 To: