Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

[John Collier]

 
> >> 
> >> STAN
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Christophe Menant
 wrote:
> >> 
> >> Dear FISers, 
> >> Indeed information can be considered downwards (physical &
meaningless) and upwards (biological & meaningful). The difference being
about interpretation or not. 
> >> It also introduces an evolutionary approach to information
processing and meaning generation.
> >> There is a chapter on that subject in a recent book
(http://www.amazon.co.uk/Information-Computation-Philosophical-Understanding-Foundations/dp/toc/9814295477).

> >> "Computation on Information, Meaning and Representations.An
Evolutionary Approach"
> >> Content of the chapter:
> >> 1. Information and Meaning. Meaning Generation
> >> 1.1. Information.Meaning of information and quantity of
information
> >> 1.2. Meaningful information and constraint satisfaction. A
systemic approach
> >> 2. Information, Meaning and Representations. An Evolutionary
Approach 
> >> 2.1. Stay alive constraint and meaning generation for organisms
> >> 2.2. The Meaning Generator System (MGS). A systemic and
evolutionary approach
> >> 2.3. Meaning transmission
> >> 2.4. Individual and species constraints. Group life constraints.
Networks of meanings
> >> 2.5. From meaningful information to meaningful representations
> >> 3. Meaningful Information and Representations in Humans
> >> 4. Meaningful Information and Representations in Artificial
Systems
> >> 4.1. Meaningful information and representations from traditional
AI to Nouvelle AI. Embodied-situated AI
> >> 4.2. Meaningful representations versus the guidance theory of
representation
> >> 4.3. Meaningful information and representations versus the
enactive approach
> >> 5. Conclusion and Continuation
> >> 5.1. Conclusion
> >> 5.2. Continuation
> >> A version close to the final text can be reached at
http://crmenant.free.fr/2009BookChapter/C.Menant.211009.pdf
> >> 
> >> As Plamen says, we may be at the beginning of a new scientific
revolution. But I'm afraid that an understanding of the meaning of
information needs clear enough an understanding of the constraint at the
source of the meaning generation process. And even for basic organic
meanings coming from a "stay alive" constraint, we have to face the
still mysterious nature of life. And for human meanings, the even more
mysterious nature of human mind.
> >> This is not to discourage our efforts in investigating these
questions. Just to put a stick in the ground showing where we stand. 
> >> Best,
> >> Christophe
> >> 
> >> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:47:28 +0100
> >> From: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
> >> To: fis@listas.unizar.es
> >> Subject: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.
> >> 
> >>  Mensaje original 
> >> 
> >> Asunto:
> >> 
> >> Re: [Fis] Physics of computing
> >> 
> >> Fecha:
> >> 
> >> Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:24:38 +0100
> >> 
> >> De:
> >> 
> >> Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov 
> >> 
> >> Para:
> >> 
> >> Pedro C. Marijuan 
> >> 
> >> Referencias:
> >> 
> >> <20120316041607.66ffc68000...@1w8.tpn.terra.com>
<4f6321c3.5000...@aragon.es>
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> +++
> >> 
> >> Dear All,
> >> 
> >> I could not agree more with Pedro's opinion. The referred article
is interesting indeed. but, information is only physical in the narrow
sense taken by conventional physicalistic-mechanistic-computational
approaches. Such a statement defends the reductionist view at nature:
sorry. But information is more than bits and Shanno's law and biology
has far more to offer. I think we are at the beginning of a new
scientific revolution. So, we may need to take our (Maxwell) "daemons"
and (Turing) "oracles" closer under the lens. In fact, David Ball, the
author of the Nature paper approached me after my talk in Brussels in
2010 on the Integral Biomathics approach and told me he thinks it were a
step in the right direction: biology driven mathematics and computation.

> >> 
> >> By the way, our book of ideas on IB will be released next month by
Springer:
http://www.springer.com/engineering/computational+intelligence+and+complexity/book/978-3-642-28110-5
> >> If you wish to obtain it at a lower price (65 EUR incl. worldwide
delive

Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

[Steven Ericsson-Zenith]

n Evolutionary 
> >> Approach"
> >> Content of the chapter:
> >> 1. Information and Meaning. Meaning Generation
> >> 1.1. Information.Meaning of information and quantity of information
> >> 1.2. Meaningful information and constraint satisfaction. A systemic 
> >> approach
> >> 2. Information, Meaning and Representations. An Evolutionary Approach 
> >> 2.1. Stay alive constraint and meaning generation for organisms
> >> 2.2. The Meaning Generator System (MGS). A systemic and evolutionary 
> >> approach
> >> 2.3. Meaning transmission
> >> 2.4. Individual and species constraints. Group life constraints. Networks 
> >> of meanings
> >> 2.5. From meaningful information to meaningful representations
> >> 3. Meaningful Information and Representations in Humans
> >> 4. Meaningful Information and Representations in Artificial Systems
> >> 4.1. Meaningful information and representations from traditional AI to 
> >> Nouvelle AI. Embodied-situated AI
> >> 4.2. Meaningful representations versus the guidance theory of 
> >> representation
> >> 4.3. Meaningful information and representations versus the enactive 
> >> approach
> >> 5. Conclusion and Continuation
> >> 5.1. Conclusion
> >> 5.2. Continuation
> >> A version close to the final text can be reached at 
> >> http://crmenant.free.fr/2009BookChapter/C.Menant.211009.pdf
> >> 
> >> As Plamen says, we may be at the beginning of a new scientific revolution. 
> >> But I'm afraid that an understanding of the meaning of information needs 
> >> clear enough an understanding of the constraint at the source of the 
> >> meaning generation process. And even for basic organic meanings coming 
> >> from a "stay alive" constraint, we have to face the still mysterious 
> >> nature of life. And for human meanings, the even more mysterious nature of 
> >> human mind.
> >> This is not to discourage our efforts in investigating these questions. 
> >> Just to put a stick in the ground showing where we stand. 
> >> Best,
> >> Christophe
> >> 
> >> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:47:28 +0100
> >> From: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
> >> To: fis@listas.unizar.es
> >> Subject: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.
> >> 
> >>  Mensaje original 
> >> 
> >> Asunto:
> >> 
> >> Re: [Fis] Physics of computing
> >> 
> >> Fecha:
> >> 
> >> Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:24:38 +0100
> >> 
> >> De:
> >> 
> >> Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov 
> >> 
> >> Para:
> >> 
> >> Pedro C. Marijuan 
> >> 
> >> Referencias:
> >> 
> >> <20120316041607.66ffc68000...@1w8.tpn.terra.com> 
> >> <4f6321c3.5000...@aragon.es>
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> +++
> >> 
> >> Dear All,
> >> 
> >> I could not agree more with Pedro's opinion. The referred article is 
> >> interesting indeed. but, information is only physical in the narrow sense 
> >> taken by conventional physicalistic-mechanistic-computational approaches. 
> >> Such a statement defends the reductionist view at nature: sorry. But 
> >> information is more than bits and Shanno's law and biology has far more to 
> >> offer. I think we are at the beginning of a new scientific revolution. So, 
> >> we may need to take our (Maxwell) "daemons" and (Turing) "oracles" closer 
> >> under the lens. In fact, David Ball, the author of the Nature paper 
> >> approached me after my talk in Brussels in 2010 on the Integral Biomathics 
> >> approach and told me he thinks it were a step in the right direction: 
> >> biology driven mathematics and computation. 
> >> 
> >> By the way, our book of ideas on IB will be released next month by 
> >> Springer: 
> >> http://www.springer.com/engineering/computational+intelligence+and+complexity/book/978-3-642-28110-5
> >> If you wish to obtain it at a lower price (65 EUR incl. worldwide 
> >> delivery) please send me your names, mailing addresses and phone numbers 
> >> via email to: pla...@simeio.org. There must be at least 9 orders to keep 
> >> that discount price..
> >> 
> >> Best,
> >> 
> >> Plamen
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Pedr

Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

[John Collier]

en
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es
[mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of Bob Logan
>> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 10:55 PM
>> To: Stanley N Salthe
>> Cc: fis
>> Subject: Re: [Fis] FW: [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Stan - great formula but as I learned from Anthony Reading who wrote
a lovely book on information Meaningful Information - it is the
recipient that brings the meaning to the information. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> PS My book What is Information was been translated into Portuguese
and published in Brazil where I am doing a 4 city, 5 university speaking
tour. The book has not yet appeared in English but it is scheduled to be
published soon by Demo press.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Regards from Brazil - Bob
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 2012-03-17, at 11:17 AM, Stanley N Salthe wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Concerning the meaning (or effect) of information (or constraint) in
general, I have proposed that context is crucial in modulating the
effect -- in all cases.  Thus: it would be like the logical example:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Effect = context a   x   Constraint ^context b
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> STAN
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Christophe Menant
 wrote:
>> 
>> Dear FISers, 
>> Indeed information can be considered downwards (physical &
meaningless) and upwards (biological & meaningful). The difference being
about interpretation or not. 
>> It also introduces an evolutionary approach to information
processing and meaning generation.
>> There is a chapter on that subject in a recent book
(http://www.amazon.co.uk/Information-Computation-Philosophical-Understanding-Foundations/dp/toc/9814295477).

>> *Computation on Information, Meaning and Representations.An
Evolutionary Approach*
>> Content of the chapter:
>> 1. Information and Meaning. Meaning Generation
>> 1.1. Information.Meaning of information and quantity of information
>> 1.2. Meaningful information and constraint satisfaction. A systemic
approach
>> 2. Information, Meaning and Representations. An Evolutionary
Approach 
>> 2.1. Stay alive constraint and meaning generation for organisms
>> 2.2. The Meaning Generator System (MGS). A systemic and evolutionary
approach
>> 2.3. Meaning transmission
>> 2.4. Individual and species constraints. Group life constraints.
Networks of meanings
>> 2.5. From meaningful information to meaningful representations
>> 3. Meaningful Information and Representations in Humans
>> 4. Meaningful Information and Representations in Artificial Systems
>> 4.1. Meaningful information and representations from traditional AI
to Nouvelle AI. Embodied-situated AI
>> 4.2. Meaningful representations versus the guidance theory of
representation
>> 4.3. Meaningful information and representations versus the enactive
approach
>> 5. Conclusion and Continuation
>> 5.1. Conclusion
>> 5.2. Continuation
>> A version close to the final text can be reached at
http://crmenant.free.fr/2009BookChapter/C.Menant.211009.pdf
>> 
>> As Plamen says, we may be at the beginning of a new scientific
revolution. But I*m afraid that an understanding of the meaning of
information needs clear enough an understanding of the constraint at the
source of the meaning generation process. And even for basic organic
meanings coming from a *stay alive* constraint, we have to face the
still mysterious nature of life. And for human meanings, the even more
mysterious nature of human mind.
>> This is not to discourage our efforts in investigating these
questions. Just to put a stick in the ground showing where we stand. 
>> Best,
>> Christophe
>> 
>> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:47:28 +0100
>> From: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
>> To: fis@listas.unizar.es
>> Subject: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.
>> 
>>  Mensaje original 
>> 
>> Asunto:
>> 
>> Re: [Fis] Physics of computing
>> 
>> Fecha:
>> 
>> Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:24:38 +0100
>> 
>> De:
>> 
>> Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov 
>> 
>> Para:
>> 
>> Pedro C. Marijuan 
>> 
>> Referencias:
>> 
>> <20120316041607.66ffc68000...@1w8.tpn.terra.com>
<4f6321c3.5000...@aragon.es>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> +++
>> 
>> Dear All,
>> 
>> I could not agree more with Pedro's opinion. The referred article is
interesting indeed. but, information is only physical i

Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

[Stanley N Salthe]

Bob -- I seem to have missed your statement here, and id not answer, so I
do so now.

Dear Stanley - how can there be information in the abiotic world?
Information is the noun associated with the verb to inform or informing. A
rock can not be informed. An abiotic entity can not be informed.
Information begins with life. A bacterium can be informed but not an
abiotic entity. When we look at stars or the moon or a fossil, they are not
information. Our interpretation of the things in nature we observe, biotic
or abiotic is the information. Perhaps I am missing something but that is
how I see things from my naive point of view. The star, the moon or the
fossil are not signs unless you believe that God exists and he or she made
these signs for us to interpret. What do you mean that semiosis is a
universal phenomenon?

The short answer is that any condition or context that persists
significantly beyond the time required for some process or event to occur
is a nonholonomic constraint on that process, and 'informs' it.  This is
represented by the values of constants in a physical equation.

STAN




On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 5:54 AM, Søren Brier  wrote:

> Dear Bill and Bob
>
> Thanks. I hope to see you both here if you pass through Copenhagen. We are
> having a PhD. course on cybersemiotics based on the book the 22-26. of
> August here. We hope for a lovely discussion.
>
> Venlig hilsen/best wishes
>
> Søren Brier
>
> Professor of semiotics of Information , Cognition and Communication, at
> Department of International Studies of Culture and Communication, research
> group on Language, Cognition and Communication (LaCoMe), CBS.
>  uk.cbs.dk/staff/soeren_brier
> Dalgas Have 15, DK-2000 Frederiksberg. Room DH2Ø042. Tel. (+ 45) 38153132
> Ed. Cybernetics & Human Knowing http://www.imprint.co.uk/C&HK/ ,
> Subscription $ 104
> Book: Cybersemiotics: Why Information Is Not Enough, Toronto University
> Press, 2008, sec. ed. 2010. Google book.
> ENTROPI, Special Issue "Cybersemiotics—Integration of the informational
> and semiotic paradigms of cognition and communication"
> http://www.mdpi.com/journal/entropy/special_issues/cybersemiotics-paradigms/
> 
> From: Bob Logan [lo...@physics.utoronto.ca]
> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 2:48 PM
> To: Bill Seaman
> Cc: Loet Leydesdorff; Stanley N Salthe; fis; Søren Brier
> Subject: Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.
>
> Dear Bill - thanks for alerting me to Soren's book. When I was last in
> Copenhagen two years ago I had a very enjoyable meeting with Soren. I look
> forward to reading his book. - Bob
>
> Hi Soren - congrats on what looks to be a fascinating book. Hope all is
> well in Copenhagen - Bob
>
>
> On 2012-03-30, at 2:09 PM, Bill Seaman wrote:
>
> I came across this book which is quite interesting and related to the
> topic:
>
>
> Cybersemiotics: Why Information Is Not Enough (Toronto Studies in
> Semiotics and Communication) [Hardcover]
> Soren Brier<
> http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_1?_encoding=UTF8&sort=relevancerank&search-alias=books&ie=UTF8&field-author=Soren%20Brier>
> (Author)
>
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Cybersemiotics-Information-Toronto-Semiotics-Communication/dp/0802092209
>
> Book description:
> A growing field of inquiry, biosemiotics is a theory of cognition and
> communication that unites the living and the cultural world. What is
> missing from this theory, however, is the unification of the information
> and computational realms of the non-living natural and technical world.
> Cybersemiotics provides such a framework.
>
> By integrating cybernetic information theory into the unique semiotic
> framework of C.S. Peirce, Søren Brier attempts to find a unified conceptual
> framework that encompasses the complex area of information, cognition, and
> communication science. This integration is performed through Niklas
> Luhmann's autopoietic systems theory of social communication. The link
> between cybernetics and semiotics is, further, an ethological and
> evolutionary theory of embodiment combined with Lakoff and Johnson's
> 'philosophy in the flesh.' This demands the development of a
> transdisciplinary philosophy of knowledge as much common sense as it is
> cultured in the humanities and the sciences. Such an epistemological and
> ontological framework is also developed in this volume.
>
> Cybersemiotics not only builds a bridge between science and culture, it
> provides a framework that encompasses them both. The cybersemiotic
> framework offers a platform for a new level of global dialogue between
> knowledge systems, including a view of science that does not compete with
> religion but o

Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

[Søren Brier]

Dear Bill and Bob

Thanks. I hope to see you both here if you pass through Copenhagen. We are 
having a PhD. course on cybersemiotics based on the book the 22-26. of August 
here. We hope for a lovely discussion.

Venlig hilsen/best wishes

Søren Brier

Professor of semiotics of Information , Cognition and Communication, at 
Department of International Studies of Culture and Communication, research 
group on Language, Cognition and Communication (LaCoMe), CBS.
 uk.cbs.dk/staff/soeren_brier
Dalgas Have 15, DK-2000 Frederiksberg. Room DH2Ø042. Tel. (+ 45) 38153132
Ed. Cybernetics & Human Knowing http://www.imprint.co.uk/C&HK/ , Subscription $ 
104
Book: Cybersemiotics: Why Information Is Not Enough, Toronto University Press, 
2008, sec. ed. 2010. Google book.
ENTROPI, Special Issue "Cybersemiotics—Integration of the informational and 
semiotic paradigms of cognition and communication" 
http://www.mdpi.com/journal/entropy/special_issues/cybersemiotics-paradigms/

From: Bob Logan [lo...@physics.utoronto.ca]
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 2:48 PM
To: Bill Seaman
Cc: Loet Leydesdorff; Stanley N Salthe; fis; Søren Brier
Subject: Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

Dear Bill - thanks for alerting me to Soren's book. When I was last in 
Copenhagen two years ago I had a very enjoyable meeting with Soren. I look 
forward to reading his book. - Bob

Hi Soren - congrats on what looks to be a fascinating book. Hope all is well in 
Copenhagen - Bob


On 2012-03-30, at 2:09 PM, Bill Seaman wrote:

I came across this book which is quite interesting and related to the topic:


Cybersemiotics: Why Information Is Not Enough (Toronto Studies in Semiotics and 
Communication) [Hardcover]
Soren 
Brier<http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_1?_encoding=UTF8&sort=relevancerank&search-alias=books&ie=UTF8&field-author=Soren%20Brier>
 (Author)

http://www.amazon.com/Cybersemiotics-Information-Toronto-Semiotics-Communication/dp/0802092209

Book description:
A growing field of inquiry, biosemiotics is a theory of cognition and 
communication that unites the living and the cultural world. What is missing 
from this theory, however, is the unification of the information and 
computational realms of the non-living natural and technical world. 
Cybersemiotics provides such a framework.

By integrating cybernetic information theory into the unique semiotic framework 
of C.S. Peirce, Søren Brier attempts to find a unified conceptual framework 
that encompasses the complex area of information, cognition, and communication 
science. This integration is performed through Niklas Luhmann's autopoietic 
systems theory of social communication. The link between cybernetics and 
semiotics is, further, an ethological and evolutionary theory of embodiment 
combined with Lakoff and Johnson's 'philosophy in the flesh.' This demands the 
development of a transdisciplinary philosophy of knowledge as much common sense 
as it is cultured in the humanities and the sciences. Such an epistemological 
and ontological framework is also developed in this volume.

Cybersemiotics not only builds a bridge between science and culture, it 
provides a framework that encompasses them both. The cybersemiotic framework 
offers a platform for a new level of global dialogue between knowledge systems, 
including a view of science that does not compete with religion but offers the 
possibility for mutual and fruitful exchange.

Best
Bill




Bill Seaman
Professor, Department of Art, Art History & Visual Studies
DUKE UNIVERSITY
114 b East Duke Building
Box 90764
Durham, NC 27708, USA
+1-919-684-2499
http://billseaman.com/
http://fds.duke.edu/db/aas/AAH/faculty/william.seaman
http://www.dibs.duke.edu/research/profiles/98-william-seaman

RadioSeaman
Paste into itunes (Advanced/open audio streams) for internet radio:
http://smw-aux.trinity.duke.edu:8000/radioseaman



On Mar 30, 2012, at 9:36 AM, Loet Leydesdorff wrote:

Dear Bob,

I read the book of Anthony Reading on Meaningful Information, but I am a bit 
disappointed. It seems to me not a good idea to uncouple information from 
uncertainty and probabilistic entropy, and to use energy-transfer instead as 
the lead metaphor for information. The objection that two kinds of entropies 
are otherwise introduced (on p. 148) reveals that the author has not really 
studied the issue because thermodynamic entropy is expressed in Watts/Kelvin 
and probabilistic entropy in bits, and the two can be related transparently via 
S = k(B) * H. Furthermore, we have the notion of negentropy of Brillouin 
(1962), and the elaborations of Ashby, Krippendorff, and others about the 
difference between entropy and information.

Thus, we have a much richer apparatus. The other objection that one should 
focus on forms is also not a major one, because any form can be written as a 
multi-variate probability distribution and 

Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

[Bob Logan]

close to the final text can be reached at 
> http://crmenant.free.fr/2009BookChapter/C.Menant.211009.pdf
> 
> As Plamen says, we may be at the beginning of a new scientific revolution. 
> But I’m afraid that an understanding of the meaning of information needs 
> clear enough an understanding of the constraint at the source of the meaning 
> generation process. And even for basic organic meanings coming from a “stay 
> alive” constraint, we have to face the still mysterious nature of life. And 
> for human meanings, the even more mysterious nature of human mind.
> This is not to discourage our efforts in investigating these questions. Just 
> to put a stick in the ground showing where we stand. 
> Best,
> Christophe
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:47:28 +0100
> From: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
> To: fis@listas.unizar.es
> Subject: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.
> 
>  Mensaje original 
> Asunto:
> Re: [Fis] Physics of computing
> Fecha:
> Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:24:38 +0100
> De:
> Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov 
> Para:
> Pedro C. Marijuan 
> Referencias:
> <20120316041607.66ffc68000...@1w8.tpn.terra.com> <4f6321c3.5000...@aragon.es>
> 
> 
> 
> +++
> 
> Dear All,
> 
> I could not agree more with Pedro's opinion. The referred article is 
> interesting indeed. but, information is only physical in the narrow sense 
> taken by conventional physicalistic-mechanistic-computational approaches. 
> Such a statement defends the reductionist view at nature: sorry. But 
> information is more than bits and Shanno's law and biology has far more to 
> offer. I think we are at the beginning of a new scientific revolution. So, we 
> may need to take our (Maxwell) "daemons" and (Turing) "oracles" closer under 
> the lens. In fact, David Ball, the author of the Nature paper approached me 
> after my talk in Brussels in 2010 on the Integral Biomathics approach and 
> told me he thinks it were a step in the right direction: biology driven 
> mathematics and computation. 
> 
> By the way, our book of ideas on IB will be released next month by Springer: 
> http://www.springer.com/engineering/computational+intelligence+and+complexity/book/978-3-642-28110-5
> If you wish to obtain it at a lower price (65 EUR incl. worldwide delivery) 
> please send me your names, mailing addresses and phone numbers via email to: 
> pla...@simeio.org. There must be at least 9 orders to keep that discount 
> price..
> 
> Best,
> 
> Plamen
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Pedro C. Marijuan 
>  wrote:
> Dear discussants,
> 
> I tend to disagree with the motto "information is physical" if taken too 
> strictly. Obviously if we look "downwards" it is OK, but in the "upward" 
> direction it is different. Info is not only physical then, and the dimension 
> of self-construction along the realization of life cycle has to be entered. 
> Then the signal, the info, has "content" and "meaning". Otherwise if we 
> insist only in the physical downward dimension we have just conventional 
> computing/ info processing. My opinion is that the notion of absence is 
> crucial for advancing in the upward, but useless in the downward. 
> By the way, I already wrote about info and the absence theme in a 1994 or 
> 1995 paper in BioSystems...
> 
> best
> 
> ---Pedro
> 
> 
> 
> walter.riof...@terra.com.pe escribió:
> Thanks John and Kevin to update issues in information, computation, energy 
> and reality.
>  I would like point out to other articles more focused in how coherence and 
> entanglement are used by living systems (far from thermal equilibrium): 
>  
> Engel G.S., Calhoun T.R., Read E.L., Ahn T.K., Mancal T., Cheng Y.C., 
> Blankenship R.E., Fleming G.R. (2007) Evidence for wavelike energy transfer 
> through quantum coherence in photosynthetic systems. Nature, 446(7137): 
> 782-786.
>  
> Collini E., Scholes G. (2009) Coherent intrachain energy in migration in a 
> conjugated polymer at room temperature.  Science, vol. 323 No. 5912 pp. 
> 369-373.
>  
> Gauger E.M., Rieper E., Morton J.J.L., Benjamin S.C., Vedral V. (2011) 
> Sustained Quantum Coherence and Entanglement in the Avian Compass. Phys. Rev. 
> Lett., 106: 040503.
>  
> Cia, J. et al, (2009)  Dynamic entanglement in oscillating molecules.  
> arXiv:0809.4906v1 [quant-ph]
>  
>  
> Sincerely,
>  
>  
> Walter
>  
>  
> 
>  
> ___
> fis mailing list
> fis@listas.unizar.es
> https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
>   
> 
> ___

Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

[Søren Brier]

Dear Bill

Thank you for your interest. I am giving a Ph.D. course on the subject this  
August for any interested researchers.

Dear all



We have just announced the PhD course ’Cybersemiotics and Transdisciplinarity: 
Applications in linguistics, communication, semiotics, and art-technology 
analysis’ on the web. The course takes place from 20 – 24 August 2012, and you 
can read more here



http://www.cbs.dk/Forskning/Forskeruddannelser/Forskerskoler/De-nye-forskerskoler/Language-Law-Informatics-Operations-Management-Accounting-and-Culture/Menu/Kurser/Kursus-overside/Cybersemiotics-and-Transdisciplinarity-Applications-in-linguistics-communication-semiotics-and-art-technology-analysis-20-24-August-2012



Deadline for registration is 29 June 2012.



Venlig hilsen | Kind Regards

Katja Høeg Tingleff

Ph.d. administrator / PhD Administrator

Dekansekretariatet for forskning / Dean's Office, Research

Copenhagen Business School
Kilevej 14 A, K.1.95, DK-2000 Frederiksberg
Tel.: (+45) 3815 2839 | kht.resea...@cbs.dk




Venlig hilsen/best wishes

Søren Brier

Professor of semiotics of Information , Cognition and Communication, at 
Department of International Studies of Culture and Communication, research 
group on Language, Cognition and Communication (LaCoMe), CBS.
 uk.cbs.dk/staff/soeren_brier
Dalgas Have 15, DK-2000 Frederiksberg. Room DH2Ø042. Tel. (+ 45) 38153132
Ed. Cybernetics & Human Knowing http://www.imprint.co.uk/C&HK/ , Subscription $ 
104
Book: Cybersemiotics: Why Information Is Not Enough, Toronto University Press, 
2008, sec. ed. 2010. Google book.
ENTROPI, Special Issue "Cybersemiotics—Integration of the informational and 
semiotic paradigms of cognition and communication" 
http://www.mdpi.com/journal/entropy/special_issues/cybersemiotics-paradigms/

From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of 
Bill Seaman [bill.sea...@duke.edu]
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 8:09 PM
To: Loet Leydesdorff
Cc: 'fis'
Subject: Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

I came across this book which is quite interesting and related to the topic:


Cybersemiotics: Why Information Is Not Enough (Toronto Studies in Semiotics and 
Communication) [Hardcover]
Soren 
Brier<http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_1?_encoding=UTF8&sort=relevancerank&search-alias=books&ie=UTF8&field-author=Soren%20Brier>
 (Author)

http://www.amazon.com/Cybersemiotics-Information-Toronto-Semiotics-Communication/dp/0802092209

Book description:
A growing field of inquiry, biosemiotics is a theory of cognition and 
communication that unites the living and the cultural world. What is missing 
from this theory, however, is the unification of the information and 
computational realms of the non-living natural and technical world. 
Cybersemiotics provides such a framework.

By integrating cybernetic information theory into the unique semiotic framework 
of C.S. Peirce, Søren Brier attempts to find a unified conceptual framework 
that encompasses the complex area of information, cognition, and communication 
science. This integration is performed through Niklas Luhmann's autopoietic 
systems theory of social communication. The link between cybernetics and 
semiotics is, further, an ethological and evolutionary theory of embodiment 
combined with Lakoff and Johnson's 'philosophy in the flesh.' This demands the 
development of a transdisciplinary philosophy of knowledge as much common sense 
as it is cultured in the humanities and the sciences. Such an epistemological 
and ontological framework is also developed in this volume.

Cybersemiotics not only builds a bridge between science and culture, it 
provides a framework that encompasses them both. The cybersemiotic framework 
offers a platform for a new level of global dialogue between knowledge systems, 
including a view of science that does not compete with religion but offers the 
possibility for mutual and fruitful exchange.

Best
Bill




Bill Seaman
Professor, Department of Art, Art History & Visual Studies
DUKE UNIVERSITY
114 b East Duke Building
Box 90764
Durham, NC 27708, USA
+1-919-684-2499
http://billseaman.com/
http://fds.duke.edu/db/aas/AAH/faculty/william.seaman
http://www.dibs.duke.edu/research/profiles/98-william-seaman

RadioSeaman
Paste into itunes (Advanced/open audio streams) for internet radio:
http://smw-aux.trinity.duke.edu:8000/radioseaman



On Mar 30, 2012, at 9:36 AM, Loet Leydesdorff wrote:

Dear Bob,

I read the book of Anthony Reading on Meaningful Information, but I am a bit 
disappointed. It seems to me not a good idea to uncouple information from 
uncertainty and probabilistic entropy, and to use energy-transfer instead as 
the lead metaphor for information. The objection that two kinds of entropies 
are otherwise introduced (on p. 148) reveals that the author has not really 
studied the issue becaus

Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

[Loet Leydesdorff]

Dear Bob, 

 

I read the book of Anthony Reading on Meaningful Information, but I am a bit
disappointed. It seems to me not a good idea to uncouple information from
uncertainty and probabilistic entropy, and to use energy-transfer instead as
the lead metaphor for information. The objection that two kinds of entropies
are otherwise introduced (on p. 148) reveals that the author has not really
studied the issue because thermodynamic entropy is expressed in Watts/Kelvin
and probabilistic entropy in bits, and the two can be related transparently
via S = k(B) * H. Furthermore, we have the notion of negentropy of Brillouin
(1962), and the elaborations of Ashby, Krippendorff, and others about the
difference between entropy and information.

 

Thus, we have a much richer apparatus. The other objection that one should
focus on forms is also not a major one, because any form can be written as a
multi-variate probability distribution and thus introduced into information
theory as a calculus. A geometrical form, for example, can be represented as
a three-dimensional probability distribution. Information theory furthermore
allows for combining the static and dynamic analysis into a calculus
(Bar-Hillel, Theil).

 

In my opinion, Shannon-type information can be considered as only a series
of differences (in a probability distribution), and a “difference which
makes a difference” (Bateson) can be considered as “meaningful information”,
but requires the specification of a system of reference, for which the
meaningless differences can make a difference. This can be operationalized
as “negentropy” (Delta-H or minus Delta-H). The difference which makes a
difference can reduce the complexity or add to it. J

 

Since differences can be made at each moment and over time, we obtain a
difference(1) which makes a difference(2) at each moment  and a
difference(3) over time. If the system of reference is able to recombine
differences (2) and (3), a difference(4) can be envisaged that can be used
for the self-organization in the present. It seems to me that the different
senses of meaningful information and meaning can thus be distinguished,
operationalized, and measured (in bits), and at a more abstract level than
only in a biology.

 

Best,

Loet

 

  _  

Loet Leydesdorff 

Professor, University of Amsterdam
Amsterdam School of Communications Research (ASCoR), 
Kloveniersburgwal 48, 1012 CX Amsterdam. 
Tel.: +31-20- 525 6598; fax: +31-842239111
l...@leydesdorff.net  <mailto:l...@leydesdorff.net> ;
http://www.leydesdorff.net/ ;
http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYJ
<http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYJ&hl=en> &hl=en 

 

From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On
Behalf Of Bob Logan
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2012 5:31 PM
To: Stanley N Salthe
Cc: fis
Subject: Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

 

Dear Stanley - how can there be information in the abiotic world?
Information is the noun associated with the verb to inform or informing. A
rock can not be informed. An abiotic entity can not be informed. Information
begins with life. A bacterium can be informed but not an abiotic entity.
When we look at stars or the moon or a fossil, they are not information. Our
interpretation of the things in nature we observe, biotic or abiotic is the
information. Perhaps I am missing something but that is how I see things
from my naive point of view. The star, the moon or the fossil are not signs
unless you believe that God exists and he or she made these signs for us to
interpret. What do you mean that semiosis is a universal phenomenon? 

 

best Bob

On 2012-03-18, at 11:48 AM, Stanley N Salthe wrote:





As my first posting for this week:

 

Bob, Loet -- I respond by clarifying that my meaning in this little equation
is that (following Sebeok) semiosis is a universal phenomenon.  The system
of interpretance in my effort here is the LOCALE.  It is such locales that
have evolved into organisms and social systems.  In organisms and other
distinct systems of interpretance, the sign is the context for
interpretation.  So, in the little equation, I am GENERALIZING semiosis into
abiotic Nature.

 

STAN

  

On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 2:57 AM, Loet Leydesdorff 
wrote:

Dear Bob, 

 

Yes, I agree: the difference that makes a difference is operationally
generated by a receiving system; information itself is nothing but a series
of differences (contained in a probability distribution). The selection
mechanisms in the receiving systems that position the incoming uncertainty
have to be specified (as hypotheses). Meaningful information emerges from
selecting the signal from the noise.

 

The meaningful information (the differences that make a difference) can
again be communicated as information (for example, in and among biological
systems). Thus, the operation is recursive and the communication /
autopoiesis continues. Meaning can only be com

Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

[Loet Leydesdorff]

Dear Stan, 

 

Let me perhaps add to the confusion by claiming that semiosis always
operates with information that is already selected from the uncertainty in
the environment. The latter uncertainty can be considered as the
Shannon-type information. Semiosis operates by using information as “a
difference which makes a difference” (Bateson). The second difference is
made by positioning the uncertainty within a system. This can be done at
each moment of time. 

 

When the system is also able to position this information (“a difference
which makes a difference”) over time, meaning can be generated from the
perspective of hindsight. A third difference can then be added. In
information theory these differences (in orthogonal dimensions) can nicely
be written as subscripts (i, j, k) to the probability distribution: Sigma
p(I,j,k). 

 

Self-organization assumes that the system has one more degree of freedom
which allows it to reorganize the (eigen)structures at each moment of time
with the (eigen)frequencies over time. The system (semiosis) can then
proceed from shaping along a localized trajectory to bifurcating into a
global regime.

 

Crucial is, in my opinion, to distinguish the different “differences” as
dimensionalities of the probability distributions.

 

Best wishes, 

Loet

 

From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On
Behalf Of Stanley N Salthe
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2012 3:49 PM
To: fis
Subject: Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

 

As my first posting for this week:

 

Bob, Loet -- I respond by clarifying that my meaning in this little equation
is that (following Sebeok) semiosis is a universal phenomenon.  The system
of interpretance in my effort here is the LOCALE.  It is such locales that
have evolved into organisms and social systems.  In organisms and other
distinct systems of interpretance, the sign is the context for
interpretation.  So, in the little equation, I am GENERALIZING semiosis into
abiotic Nature.

 

STAN

  

On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 2:57 AM, Loet Leydesdorff 
wrote:

Dear Bob, 

 

Yes, I agree: the difference that makes a difference is operationally
generated by a receiving system; information itself is nothing but a series
of differences (contained in a probability distribution). The selection
mechanisms in the receiving systems that position the incoming uncertainty
have to be specified (as hypotheses). Meaningful information emerges from
selecting the signal from the noise.

 

The meaningful information (the differences that make a difference) can
again be communicated as information (for example, in and among biological
systems). Thus, the operation is recursive and the communication /
autopoiesis continues. Meaning can only be communicated by systems which are
able to entertain a symbolic order reflexively such as human beings and in
interhuman discourses.

 

I’ll read the book by Reading.

Best,

Loet

 

  _  

Loet Leydesdorff 

Professor, University of Amsterdam
Amsterdam School of Communications Research (ASCoR), 
Kloveniersburgwal 48, 1012 CX Amsterdam. 
Tel.: +31-20- 525 6598  ; fax: +31-842239111
 
l...@leydesdorff.net  <mailto:l...@leydesdorff.net> ;
http://www.leydesdorff.net/ ;
http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYJ
<http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYJ&hl=en> &hl=en 

 

From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On
Behalf Of Bob Logan
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 10:55 PM
To: Stanley N Salthe
Cc: fis
Subject: Re: [Fis] FW: [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

 

Stan - great formula but as I learned from Anthony Reading who wrote a
lovely book on information Meaningful Information - it is the recipient that
brings the meaning to the information. 

 

PS My book What is Information was been translated into Portuguese and
published in Brazil where I am doing a 4 city, 5 university speaking tour.
The book has not yet appeared in English but it is scheduled to be published
soon by Demo press.

 

Regards from Brazil - Bob

 

 

 

On 2012-03-17, at 11:17 AM, Stanley N Salthe wrote:

 

Concerning the meaning (or effect) of information (or constraint) in
general, I have proposed that context is crucial in modulating the effect --
in all cases.  Thus: it would be like the logical example:

 

 Effect = context a   x   Constraint ^context b

 

STAN

 

 

 

On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Christophe Menant
 wrote:

Dear FISers, 
Indeed information can be considered downwards (physical & meaningless) and
upwards (biological & meaningful). The difference being about interpretation
or not. 
It also introduces an evolutionary approach to information processing and
meaning generation.
There is a chapter on that subject in a recent book
(http://www.amazon.co.uk/Information-Computation-Philosophical-Understanding
-Foundations/dp/toc/9814295477). 
“Computation on Information, Meaning and Representations.An Evolu

Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

[Steven Ericsson-Zenith]

king tour. 
>> The book has not yet appeared in English but it is scheduled to be published 
>> soon by Demo press.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Regards from Brazil - Bob
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 2012-03-17, at 11:17 AM, Stanley N Salthe wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Concerning the meaning (or effect) of information (or constraint) in 
>> general, I have proposed that context is crucial in modulating the effect -- 
>> in all cases.  Thus: it would be like the logical example:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Effect = context a   x   Constraint ^context b
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> STAN
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Christophe Menant 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Dear FISers, 
>> Indeed information can be considered downwards (physical & meaningless) and 
>> upwards (biological & meaningful). The difference being about interpretation 
>> or not. 
>> It also introduces an evolutionary approach to information processing and 
>> meaning generation.
>> There is a chapter on that subject in a recent book 
>> (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Information-Computation-Philosophical-Understanding-Foundations/dp/toc/9814295477).
>>  
>> “Computation on Information, Meaning and Representations.An Evolutionary 
>> Approach”
>> Content of the chapter:
>> 1. Information and Meaning. Meaning Generation
>> 1.1. Information.Meaning of information and quantity of information
>> 1.2. Meaningful information and constraint satisfaction. A systemic approach
>> 2. Information, Meaning and Representations. An Evolutionary Approach 
>> 2.1. Stay alive constraint and meaning generation for organisms
>> 2.2. The Meaning Generator System (MGS). A systemic and evolutionary approach
>> 2.3. Meaning transmission
>> 2.4. Individual and species constraints. Group life constraints. Networks of 
>> meanings
>> 2.5. From meaningful information to meaningful representations
>> 3. Meaningful Information and Representations in Humans
>> 4. Meaningful Information and Representations in Artificial Systems
>> 4.1. Meaningful information and representations from traditional AI to 
>> Nouvelle AI. Embodied-situated AI
>> 4.2. Meaningful representations versus the guidance theory of representation
>> 4.3. Meaningful information and representations versus the enactive approach
>> 5. Conclusion and Continuation
>> 5.1. Conclusion
>> 5.2. Continuation
>> A version close to the final text can be reached at 
>> http://crmenant.free.fr/2009BookChapter/C.Menant.211009.pdf
>> 
>> As Plamen says, we may be at the beginning of a new scientific revolution. 
>> But I’m afraid that an understanding of the meaning of information needs 
>> clear enough an understanding of the constraint at the source of the meaning 
>> generation process. And even for basic organic meanings coming from a “stay 
>> alive” constraint, we have to face the still mysterious nature of life. And 
>> for human meanings, the even more mysterious nature of human mind.
>> This is not to discourage our efforts in investigating these questions. Just 
>> to put a stick in the ground showing where we stand. 
>> Best,
>> Christophe
>> 
>> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:47:28 +0100
>> From: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
>> To: fis@listas.unizar.es
>> Subject: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.
>> 
>>  Mensaje original 
>> 
>> Asunto:
>> 
>> Re: [Fis] Physics of computing
>> 
>> Fecha:
>> 
>> Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:24:38 +0100
>> 
>> De:
>> 
>> Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov 
>> 
>> Para:
>> 
>> Pedro C. Marijuan 
>> 
>> Referencias:
>> 
>> <20120316041607.66ffc68000...@1w8.tpn.terra.com> <4f6321c3.5000...@aragon.es>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> +++
>> 
>> Dear All,
>> 
>> I could not agree more with Pedro's opinion. The referred article is 
>> interesting indeed. but, information is only physical in the narrow sense 
>> taken by conventional physicalistic-mechanistic-computational approaches. 
>> Such a statement defends the reductionist view at nature: sorry. But 
>> information is more than bits and Shanno's law and biology has far more to 
>> offer. I think we are at the beginning of a new scientific revolution. So, 
>> we may need to take our (Maxwell) "daemons" and (Turing) "oracles" closer 
>> under the lens. In fact, 

Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

[Bob Logan]

ion and constraint satisfaction. A systemic approach
> 2. Information, Meaning and Representations. An Evolutionary Approach 
> 2.1. Stay alive constraint and meaning generation for organisms
> 2.2. The Meaning Generator System (MGS). A systemic and evolutionary approach
> 2.3. Meaning transmission
> 2.4. Individual and species constraints. Group life constraints. Networks of 
> meanings
> 2.5. From meaningful information to meaningful representations
> 3. Meaningful Information and Representations in Humans
> 4. Meaningful Information and Representations in Artificial Systems
> 4.1. Meaningful information and representations from traditional AI to 
> Nouvelle AI. Embodied-situated AI
> 4.2. Meaningful representations versus the guidance theory of representation
> 4.3. Meaningful information and representations versus the enactive approach
> 5. Conclusion and Continuation
> 5.1. Conclusion
> 5.2. Continuation
> A version close to the final text can be reached at 
> http://crmenant.free.fr/2009BookChapter/C.Menant.211009.pdf
> 
> As Plamen says, we may be at the beginning of a new scientific revolution. 
> But I’m afraid that an understanding of the meaning of information needs 
> clear enough an understanding of the constraint at the source of the meaning 
> generation process. And even for basic organic meanings coming from a “stay 
> alive” constraint, we have to face the still mysterious nature of life. And 
> for human meanings, the even more mysterious nature of human mind.
> This is not to discourage our efforts in investigating these questions. Just 
> to put a stick in the ground showing where we stand. 
> Best,
> Christophe
> 
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:47:28 +0100
> From: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
> To: fis@listas.unizar.es
> Subject: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.
> 
>  Mensaje original 
> 
> Asunto:
> 
> Re: [Fis] Physics of computing
> 
> Fecha:
> 
> Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:24:38 +0100
> 
> De:
> 
> Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov 
> 
> Para:
> 
> Pedro C. Marijuan 
> 
> Referencias:
> 
> <20120316041607.66ffc68000...@1w8.tpn.terra.com> <4f6321c3.5000...@aragon.es>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +++
> 
> Dear All,
> 
> I could not agree more with Pedro's opinion. The referred article is 
> interesting indeed. but, information is only physical in the narrow sense 
> taken by conventional physicalistic-mechanistic-computational approaches. 
> Such a statement defends the reductionist view at nature: sorry. But 
> information is more than bits and Shanno's law and biology has far more to 
> offer. I think we are at the beginning of a new scientific revolution. So, we 
> may need to take our (Maxwell) "daemons" and (Turing) "oracles" closer under 
> the lens. In fact, David Ball, the author of the Nature paper approached me 
> after my talk in Brussels in 2010 on the Integral Biomathics approach and 
> told me he thinks it were a step in the right direction: biology driven 
> mathematics and computation. 
> 
> By the way, our book of ideas on IB will be released next month by Springer: 
> http://www.springer.com/engineering/computational+intelligence+and+complexity/book/978-3-642-28110-5
> If you wish to obtain it at a lower price (65 EUR incl. worldwide delivery) 
> please send me your names, mailing addresses and phone numbers via email to: 
> pla...@simeio.org. There must be at least 9 orders to keep that discount 
> price..
> 
> Best,
> 
> Plamen
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Pedro C. Marijuan 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dear discussants,
> 
> I tend to disagree with the motto "information is physical" if taken too 
> strictly. Obviously if we look "downwards" it is OK, but in the "upward" 
> direction it is different. Info is not only physical then, and the dimension 
> of self-construction along the realization of life cycle has to be entered. 
> Then the signal, the info, has "content" and "meaning". Otherwise if we 
> insist only in the physical downward dimension we have just conventional 
> computing/ info processing. My opinion is that the notion of absence is 
> crucial for advancing in the upward, but useless in the downward. 
> By the way, I already wrote about info and the absence theme in a 1994 or 
> 1995 paper in BioSystems...
> 
> best
> 
> ---Pedro
> 
> 
> 
> walter.riof...@terra.com.pe escribió:
> 
> Thanks John and Kevin to update issues in information, computation, energy 
> and reality.
>  I would like point out to other articles more focused in how coherence and 
> entanglement are used by living systems (far from thermal e

Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

[Stanley N Salthe]

tion and representations from traditional AI to
> Nouvelle AI. Embodied-situated AI**
> 4.2. Meaningful representations versus the guidance theory of
> representation
> 4.3. Meaningful information and representations versus the enactive
> approach
> **5. Conclusion and Continuation**
> **5.1. Conclusion**
> **5.2. Continuation**
> **A version close to the final text can be reached at **
> http://crmenant.free.fr/2009BookChapter/C.Menant.211009.pdf*
>
> *As Plamen says, we may be at the beginning of a new scientific
> revolution. But I’m afraid that an understanding of the meaning of
> information needs clear enough an understanding of the constraint at the
> source of the meaning generation process. And even for basic organic
> meanings coming from a “stay alive” constraint, we have to face the still
> mysterious nature of life. And for human meanings, the even more mysterious
> nature of human mind.*
> *This is not to discourage our efforts in investigating these questions.
> Just to put a stick in the ground showing where we stand. *
> *Best,*
> *Christophe *
> --
>
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:47:28 +0100
> From: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
> To: fis@listas.unizar.es
> Subject: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.
>
>  Mensaje original  
>
> *Asunto: *
>
> Re: [Fis] Physics of computing
>
> *Fecha: *
>
> Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:24:38 +0100
>
> *De: *
>
> Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov 
> 
> 
>
> *Para: *
>
> Pedro C. Marijuan  *
> ***
>
> *Referencias: *
>
> <20120316041607.66ffc68000...@1w8.tpn.terra.com><20120316041607.66ffc68000...@1w8.tpn.terra.com>
> <4f6321c3.5000...@aragon.es> <4f6321c3.5000...@aragon.es>
>
>
>
>
> +++
>
> Dear All,
>
> I could not agree more with Pedro's opinion. The referred article is
> interesting indeed. but, information is only physical in the narrow sense
> taken by conventional physicalistic-mechanistic-computational approaches.
> Such a statement defends the reductionist view at nature: sorry. But
> information is more than bits and Shanno's law and biology has far more to
> offer. I think we are at the beginning of a new scientific revolution. So,
> we may need to take our (Maxwell) "daemons" and (Turing) "oracles" closer
> under the lens. In fact, David Ball, the author of the Nature paper
> approached me after my talk in Brussels in 2010 on the Integral Biomathics
> approach and told me he thinks it were a step in the right direction:
> biology driven mathematics and computation.
>
> By the way, our book of ideas on IB will be released next month by
> Springer:
> http://www.springer.com/engineering/computational+intelligence+and+complexity/book/978-3-642-28110-5
> If you wish to obtain it at a lower price (65 EUR incl. worldwide
> delivery) please send me your names, mailing addresses and phone numbers
> via email to: pla...@simeio.org. There must be at least 9 orders to keep
> that discount price..
>
> Best,
>
> Plamen
>
>
> 
>
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Pedro C. Marijuan <
> pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es> wrote:
>
> Dear discussants,
>
> I tend to disagree with the motto "information is physical" if taken too
> strictly. Obviously if we look "downwards" it is OK, but in the "upward"
> direction it is different. Info is not only physical then, and the
> dimension of self-construction along the realization of life cycle has to
> be entered. Then the signal, the info, has "content" and "meaning".
> Otherwise if we insist only in the physical downward dimension we have just
> conventional computing/ info processing. My opinion is that the notion of
> absence is crucial for advancing in the upward, but useless in the
> downward.
> By the way, I already wrote about info and the absence theme in a 1994 or
> 1995 paper in BioSystems...
>
> best
>
> ---Pedro
>
>
>
> walter.riof...@terra.com.pe escribió: 
>
> Thanks John and Kevin to update issues in information, computation, energy
> and reality.
>  I would like point out to other articles more focused in how coherence
> and entanglement are used by living systems (far from thermal equilibrium):
>
> Engel G.S., Calhoun T.R., Read E.L., Ahn T.K., Mancal T., Cheng Y.C.,
> Blankenship R.E., Fleming G.R. (2007) Evidence for wavelike energy transfer
> through quantum coherence in photosynthetic systems. Nature, 446(7137):
> 782-786.
>
> Collini E., Scholes G. (2009) Coherent intrachain energy in migration in a
> conjugated polymer at room temperature.  Science, vol.

[Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

[Loet Leydesdorff]

Dear Bob, 

 

Yes, I agree: the difference that makes a difference is operationally
generated by a receiving system; information itself is nothing but a series
of differences (contained in a probability distribution). The selection
mechanisms in the receiving systems that position the incoming uncertainty
have to be specified (as hypotheses). Meaningful information emerges from
selecting the signal from the noise.

 

The meaningful information (the differences that make a difference) can
again be communicated as information (for example, in and among biological
systems). Thus, the operation is recursive and the communication /
autopoiesis continues. Meaning can only be communicated by systems which are
able to entertain a symbolic order reflexively such as human beings and in
interhuman discourses.

 

I’ll read the book by Reading.

Best,

Loet

 

  _  

Loet Leydesdorff 

Professor, University of Amsterdam
Amsterdam School of Communications Research (ASCoR), 
Kloveniersburgwal 48, 1012 CX Amsterdam. 
Tel.: +31-20- 525 6598; fax: +31-842239111
l...@leydesdorff.net  <mailto:l...@leydesdorff.net> ;
http://www.leydesdorff.net/ ;
http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYJ
<http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYJ&hl=en> &hl=en 

 

From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On
Behalf Of Bob Logan
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 10:55 PM
To: Stanley N Salthe
Cc: fis
Subject: Re: [Fis] FW: [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

 

Stan - great formula but as I learned from Anthony Reading who wrote a
lovely book on information Meaningful Information - it is the recipient that
brings the meaning to the information. 

 

PS My book What is Information was been translated into Portuguese and
published in Brazil where I am doing a 4 city, 5 university speaking tour.
The book has not yet appeared in English but it is scheduled to be published
soon by Demo press.

 

Regards from Brazil - Bob

 

 

 

On 2012-03-17, at 11:17 AM, Stanley N Salthe wrote:





Concerning the meaning (or effect) of information (or constraint) in
general, I have proposed that context is crucial in modulating the effect --
in all cases.  Thus: it would be like the logical example:

 

 Effect = context a   x   Constraint ^context b

 

STAN

 

 

 

On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Christophe Menant
 wrote:

Dear FISers, 
Indeed information can be considered downwards (physical & meaningless) and
upwards (biological & meaningful). The difference being about interpretation
or not. 
It also introduces an evolutionary approach to information processing and
meaning generation.
There is a chapter on that subject in a recent book
(http://www.amazon.co.uk/Information-Computation-Philosophical-Understanding
-Foundations/dp/toc/9814295477). 
“Computation on Information, Meaning and Representations.An Evolutionary
Approach”
Content of the chapter:
1. Information and Meaning. Meaning Generation
1.1. Information.Meaning of information and quantity of information
1.2. Meaningful information and constraint satisfaction. A systemic approach
2. Information, Meaning and Representations. An Evolutionary Approach 
2.1. Stay alive constraint and meaning generation for organisms
2.2. The Meaning Generator System (MGS). A systemic and evolutionary
approach
2.3. Meaning transmission
2.4. Individual and species constraints. Group life constraints. Networks of
meanings
2.5. From meaningful information to meaningful representations
3. Meaningful Information and Representations in Humans
4. Meaningful Information and Representations in Artificial Systems
4.1. Meaningful information and representations from traditional AI to
Nouvelle AI. Embodied-situated AI
4.2. Meaningful representations versus the guidance theory of representation
4.3. Meaningful information and representations versus the enactive approach
5. Conclusion and Continuation
5.1. Conclusion
5.2. Continuation
A version close to the final text can be reached at
<http://crmenant.free.fr/2009BookChapter/C.Menant.211009.pdf>
http://crmenant.free.fr/2009BookChapter/C.Menant.211009.pdf

As Plamen says, we may be at the beginning of a new scientific revolution.
But I’m afraid that an understanding of the meaning of information needs
clear enough an understanding of the constraint at the source of the meaning
generation process. And even for basic organic meanings coming from a “stay
alive” constraint, we have to face the still mysterious nature of life. And
for human meanings, the even more mysterious nature of human mind.
This is not to discourage our efforts in investigating these questions. Just
to put a stick in the ground showing where we stand. 
Best,
Christophe 

  _  

Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:47:28 +0100
From: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
To: fis@listas.unizar.es
Subject: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

 Mensaje original  


Asunto: 

Re: [Fis] Physics of computing

[Fis] [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

[Pedro C. Marijuan]

 Mensaje original 
Asunto: Re: [Fis] Physics of computing
Fecha:  Fri, 16 Mar 2012 13:24:38 +0100
De: Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov 
Para:   Pedro C. Marijuan 
Referencias: 	<20120316041607.66ffc68000...@1w8.tpn.terra.com> 
<4f6321c3.5000...@aragon.es>





+++

Dear All,

I could not agree more with Pedro's opinion. The referred article is 
interesting indeed. but, information is only physical in the narrow 
sense taken by conventional physicalistic-mechanistic-computational 
approaches. Such a statement defends the reductionist view at nature: 
sorry. But information is more than bits and Shanno's law and biology 
has far more to offer. I think we are at the beginning of a new 
scientific revolution. So, we may need to take our (Maxwell) "daemons" 
and (Turing) "oracles" closer under the lens. In fact, David Ball, the 
author of the Nature paper approached me after my talk in Brussels in 
2010 on the Integral Biomathics approach and told me he thinks it were a 
step in the right direction: biology driven mathematics and computation.


By the way, our book of ideas on IB will be released next month by 
Springer: 
http://www.springer.com/engineering/computational+intelligence+and+complexity/book/978-3-642-28110-5
If you wish to obtain it at a lower price (65 EUR incl. worldwide 
delivery) please send me your names, mailing addresses and phone numbers 
via email to: pla...@simeio.org . There must 
be at least 9 orders to keep that discount price..


Best,

Plamen

On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Pedro C. Marijuan 
mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es>> wrote:


   Dear discussants,

   I tend to disagree with the motto "information is physical" if taken
   too strictly. Obviously if we look "downwards" it is OK, but in the
   "upward" direction it is different. Info is not only physical then,
   and the dimension of self-construction along the realization of life
   cycle has to be entered. Then the signal, the info, has "content"
   and "meaning". Otherwise if we insist only in the physical downward
   dimension we have just conventional computing/ info processing. My
   opinion is that the notion of absence is crucial for advancing in
   the upward, but useless in the downward.
   By the way, I already wrote about info and the absence theme in a
   1994 or 1995 paper in BioSystems...

   best

   ---Pedro



   walter.riof...@terra.com.pe 
   escribió:


Thanks John and Kevin to update issues in information,
computation, energy and reality.

 I would like point out to other articles more focused in how
coherence and entanglement are used by living systems (far from
thermal equilibrium):

 


Engel G.S., Calhoun T.R., Read E.L., Ahn T.K., Mancal T., Cheng
Y.C., Blankenship R.E., Fleming G.R. (2007) Evidence for wavelike
energy transfer through quantum coherence in photosynthetic
systems. Nature, 446(7137): 782-786.

 


Collini E., Scholes G. (2009) Coherent intrachain energy in
migration in a conjugated polymer at room temperature.  Science,
vol. 323 No. 5912 pp. 369-373.

 


Gauger E.M., Rieper E., Morton J.J.L., Benjamin S.C., Vedral V.
(2011) Sustained Quantum Coherence and Entanglement in the Avian
Compass. Phys. Rev. Lett., 106: 040503.

 


Cia, J. et al, (2009)  Dynamic entanglement in oscillating
molecules.  arXiv:0809.4906v1 [quant-ph]

 

 


Sincerely,

 

 


Walter

 

 





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Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov
landline:   +49.30.38.10.11.25
fax/ums:   +49.30.48.49.88.26.4
mobile: +44.12.23.96.85.69
email: pla...@simeio.org 
URL:  www.simeio.org 
 
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