Folks -- I think that meaning can be generalized to contextuality.
I have proposed, for example, that meaning exists
in occult form in physics, in the function of
constant variables in descriptive equations. We
know that the values of constants in an equation
will influence the result. So, if we have Y =
aX^b, we are putatively interested in the dyadic
relations between X and Y. But these relations
depend upon the values of a and b (which might,
for example, be universal constants). Given
this role for the constants, we in reality have
triadic relations here, with the constants
representing the context. Physical ideology has
obscured this by way of the 'epistemic cut',
delineating the distinction between observer and
observed. But, in utilizing the values of the
constants in order to calculate the value of Y,
they have actually pulled the constant values
into the observer rather than being associated
with the observed, leaving X and Y in evidently
dyadic relations, without context. In many cases
this would seem to be pragmatically reasonable
because the values of some constants may always
be taken to be the same. One branch of chaos
theory illuminated this by showing the range of
different results one gets by changing the
constants instead of the variable parameters.
STAN
Thanks Stan,
Biosemiotics can indeed be part of the story
(<http://crmenant.free.fr/Biosemiotics3/INDEX.HTM>http://crmenant.free.fr/Biosemiotics3/INDEX.HTM
), but part only.
My point is about the importance of the notion
of "meaning" when talking about information.
Interpretation of information (meaning
generation) is key when information is processed
by finalized systems. Our lives are embedded in
meaning generation, from auto-immune disease to
the smile of the Joconde. Meaning generation has
probably an evolutionary story, and can deserves
(I feel) a systemic approach
(http://cogprints.org/6279/ ). So I'm just kind
of surprised not to see the notion of meaning
explicited in the proposal.
Perhaps Pedro could tell us more on this point.
All the best
Christophe
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 15:28:54 -0400
To: christophe.men...@hotmail.fr
From: ssal...@binghamton.edu
Subject: Re: [Fis] FW: Denumerability of information (II)
.ExternalClass blockquote, .ExternalClass dl,
.ExternalClass ul, .ExternalClass ol,
.ExternalClass li
{padding-top:0;padding-bottom:0;}
For your interest, I think you are tending
towards semiotics -- in particular,
Biosemiotics. You could look at the web pages
of the Biosemiotics journal.
STAN
Dear all,
Comments from Michel and Rafael bring up an
aspect of the proposal that has perhaps been
underestimated. It is the interpretation of
information which generates its content, its
meaning. From "Information in cells" to
"information for cells" we precisely have the
interpretating function where an agent creates
meaning for its own usage. Different agents
generate different meanings. And information in
antennas is not for antennas as they contain no
interpretating function.
Can the paragraph "Semantics" cover this point?
Perhaps, but I'm not sure that "semantics for
bioinformation" is currently used.
The concept of interpretation looks to me as key
when talking about information in agents. If the
proposal takes it into account from a different
perspective, perhaps it would be worth
expliciting it.
Best regards
Christophe
> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 13:57:53 +0200
From: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
To: fis@listas.unizar.es
Subject: [Fis] Denumerability of information (II)
(message II, responses from Díaz Nafría and Rafael Capurro)
--------------------------------------------------
Dear Michel:
Thank you for your good remarks. I agree about both. Of course, data
banks may be considered in the list. In any case, that list should be
too long if it were exhaustive. That is to say, "S" concern to a much
> larger list that the enunciated one (and considering length I may say
that there were only 10000 character left to fulfil the "text of
proposal" and we use them all). Anyway, data banks are certainly a
relevant case so they will be mentioned in next submissions.
About (2), I remember the controversy which arose from a question you
stated in December -I think-. I also keep in mind the interesting
answer from Rafael. I wrote him some remarks about the controversy. I
will try to find them to give you my point of view about that
interesting question.
Grateful and cordial greetings,
José María Díaz Nafría
---------------------------------------------------------
Dear Michel and all,
yes, the formulation "there is information in cells..." could be
misleading as it means, IMO, there is information "for" cells or
messages that cells are able to process "as" information, i.e., through
a process of selection and integration "in" them according to their
specific way of life. What is stored in data banks is in fact not
information but potential information for a system capable of
understanding or "processing" it. The question of numerability is one
possible framework of interpretation which means particularly since
modern science, that "we" think we understand something as far as we are
able to interpret it as countable using particularly digital media. In
the 19th century this framework was mainly related to "matter" (what is
not "material" is not understandable). Of course different frameworks or
(metaphysical) "paradigms" compete with each other unless they are
viewed as the only "true" ones... And: they have consequences for
society, politics etc. as we can see everyday
kind regards
Rafael
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