Re: [Fis] If always n>0 why we need log

2018-06-03 Thread Terrence W. DEACON
I am in agreement with Guy Hoelzer in his assessment of the use of
log-transformed data.
Since I regularly deal with biological growth processes, using
log-transformed data is the clearest way to anaylyze proportional
relationships in nonlinear sysrtems.
By virtue of the way it compresses multiplicative relations log
transformation makes scale-free comparison much more tractable and
correlations much more obvious.
And compression is one of the most important benefits of mathematical
analysis.

On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 2:04 PM, Guy A Hoelzer  wrote:

> Dear Sung et al.,
>
> I appreciate human bias in terms of numerical scale, but I don’t think
> that is what we actually achieve by using logarithms.  If the universe of
> possibility is fractal, using a logarithm does not eliminate the problem of
> large numbers.  I think the primary outcome achieved by using logarithms is
> that units come to represent proportions rather than absolute (fixed scale)
> amounts.  It reveals an aspect of scale-free form.
>
>
>
> On Jun 3, 2018, at 10:42 AM, Sungchul Ji  wrote:
>
> Hi Krassimir,
>
> I think the main reason that we express 'information'  as a logarithmic
> function of the number of choices available, n, may be because the human
> brain finds it easier to remember (and communicate and reason with)  10
> than  100, or 100 than 10. . . . 0, etc.
>
> All the best.
>
> Sung
>
>
>
> --
> *From:* Krassimir Markov 
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 3, 2018 12:06 PM
> *To:* Foundation of Information Science
> *Cc:* Sungchul Ji
> *Subject:* If always n>0 why we need log
>
> Dear Sung,
>
> A simple question:
>
> If always n>0 why we need log in
>
> I = -log_2(m/n) = - log_2 (m) + log_2(n)   (1)
>
> Friendly greetings
>
> Krassimir
>
>
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-- 
Professor Terrence W. Deacon
University of California, Berkeley
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Re: [Fis] If always n>0 why we need log

2018-06-03 Thread Guy A Hoelzer
Dear Sung et al.,

I appreciate human bias in terms of numerical scale, but I don’t think that is 
what we actually achieve by using logarithms.  If the universe of possibility 
is fractal, using a logarithm does not eliminate the problem of large numbers.  
I think the primary outcome achieved by using logarithms is that units come to 
represent proportions rather than absolute (fixed scale) amounts.  It reveals 
an aspect of scale-free form.



On Jun 3, 2018, at 10:42 AM, Sungchul Ji 
mailto:s...@pharmacy.rutgers.edu>> wrote:


Hi Krassimir,

I think the main reason that we express 'information'  as a logarithmic 
function of the number of choices available, n, may be because the human brain 
finds it easier to remember (and communicate and reason with)  10 than  
100, or 100 than 10. . . . 0, etc.

All the best.

Sung




From: Krassimir Markov mailto:mar...@foibg.com>>
Sent: Sunday, June 3, 2018 12:06 PM
To: Foundation of Information Science
Cc: Sungchul Ji
Subject: If always n>0 why we need log

Dear Sung,

A simple question:

If always n>0 why we need log in

I = -log_2(m/n) = - log_2 (m) + log_2(n)   (1)

Friendly greetings

Krassimir


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Re: [Fis] If always n>0 why we need log

2018-06-03 Thread Pedro C. Marijuan
Sorry Sung, you know about the rules of engagement in this list... you 
have gone to 5 msgs. And that means one and half weeks of sanction. Even 
more after having warned you privately several times.
Anyhow, tomorrow I will make public an embarrassing bureaucratic 
procedure that the list has to suffer next days.

Best wishes--Pedro

El 03/06/2018 a las 19:42, Sungchul Ji escribió:

Hi Krassimir,

I think the main reason that we express 'information'  as a 
logarithmic function of the number of choices available, n, may 
be because the human brain finds it easier to remember (and 
communicate and reason with)  10 than  100, or 100 than 
10. . . . 0, etc.


All the best.

Sung




*From:* Krassimir Markov 
*Sent:* Sunday, June 3, 2018 12:06 PM
*To:* Foundation of Information Science
*Cc:* Sungchul Ji
*Subject:* If always n>0 why we need log
Dear Sung,

A simple question:

If always n>0 why we need log in

I = -log_2(m/n) = - log_2 (m) + log_2(n)   (1)

Friendly greetings

Krassimir




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--
-
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
-



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Re: [Fis] If always n>0 why we need log

2018-06-03 Thread Sungchul Ji
Hi Krassimir,

I think the main reason that we express 'information'  as a logarithmic 
function of the number of choices available, n, may be because the human brain 
finds it easier to remember (and communicate and reason with)  10 than  
100, or 100 than 10. . . . 0, etc.

All the best.

Sung




From: Krassimir Markov 
Sent: Sunday, June 3, 2018 12:06 PM
To: Foundation of Information Science
Cc: Sungchul Ji
Subject: If always n>0 why we need log

Dear Sung,

A simple question:

If always n>0 why we need log in

I = -log_2(m/n) = - log_2 (m) + log_2(n)   (1)

Friendly greetings

Krassimir


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Re: [Fis] If always n>0 why we need log

2018-06-03 Thread Sungchul Ji
Hi Krassimir,


I think the main reason that we express 'information'  as a logarithmic 
function of the number of choices, n, may be because the human brain finds it 
easier to remember (and communicate and reason with)  10 than  100, or 
100 than 10. . . . 0, etc.


All the best.


Sung






From: Krassimir Markov 
Sent: Sunday, June 3, 2018 12:06:54 PM
To: Foundation of Information Science
Cc: Sungchul Ji
Subject: If always n>0 why we need log

Dear Sung,

A simple question:

If always n>0 why we need log in

I = -log_2(m/n) = - log_2 (m) + log_2(n)   (1)

Friendly greetings

Krassimir


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