Re: Re[2]: [Flashcoders] AS3 -> Objective-C

[Matt S.]

Thanks, I'll check these out as well!

.m

On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 7:43 AM, Greg Ligierko  wrote:
> I am learning ObjC for about a month. The purpose is porting and
> existing AS2 application to iphone/ipad. Having very poor C experence
> I can say, that knowing C is not something essential to familiarize
> and then working fore real with apple frameworks.
>
> Before I started XCode for good, I bought some books:
>
> 1) "Programming in Objective-C 2.0 (2nd Edition)" by Stephen G. Kochan.
> It's about complete basics of ObjC, this one explains details of the
> ObjC syntax, classes, interfaces, implementation, protocols, special
> characters, memory management... in general - roots.
>
> In Kochan's book, there is an interesting paragraph related directly to
> your question about C (chapter "Underlaying C Language Features"):
> "This chapter describes features of the ObjC language that you don't
> necessarily need to know to write ObjC programs. In fact, most of
> these come from the underlaying C programming language. (...) some of
> these features go against the grain of object oriented programming.
> They can also interfere with some of strategies implemented by
> Foundation framework such as memory allocation methodology or work
> with character strings containing multibyte (UTF8) characters."
>
>
> 2) "Cocoa Design Patterns" Erik M. Buck
> This one is great. It is like GOF translated to Apple frameworks. But
> it is not as general as GOF. It is really based on the Cocoa language
> features.
>
> Kochan's book is like looking at ObjC through a microscope and Buck's
> book is more like looking from a mountain into the cocoa valley :)
>
> 3,4) Two others by Dave Mark, dedicated to pure iPhone development.
> They provide good intro to Interface Builder and iPhone features -
> accelerometer, giro, multitouch, but most important - outlets and
> delegates:
> "Beginning iPhone 3 Development: Exploring the iPhone SDK"
> "More iPhone 3 Development: Tackling iPhone SDK 3 (Beginning)"
>
> g.
>
>
>
> Tuesday, March 16, 2010 (9:36:01 PM):
>
>> I think of the .h files as interfaces - it makes sense after that
>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 16 Mar 2010, at 18:59, "Eric E. Dolecki"  wrote:
>
>>> I have heard that one should know C before diving into Obj-C. I did
>>> not do
>>> that as I wanted to dive in quicker. Once you get your head around
>>> memory
>>> management and how to manipulate NSString, etc. you'll be well on
>>> your way.
>>> The whole .h .m thing is strange, etc. I'm not sure if it would have
>>> made a
>>> big difference for me to learn C first or not, but I chose not to
>>> and spent
>>> a lot of time reading tutorials and books about Obj-C. I suppose it
>>> all
>>> depends on what kind of sponge you are.
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 2:30 PM, .matt  wrote:
>>>
 So is it a fools errand to try to dive into iPhone dev without
 knowing C
 going in? Can one bypass C and dive directly into O-C?

 .m

>
>
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Re: [Flashcoders] AS3 -> Objective-C

[Kevin Newman]

I had no trouble following this tutorial:

http://cocoadevcentral.com/d/learn_objectivec/

The C one was enlightening really. Worth the read even if you don't end 
up developing in C or Objective-C


Kevin N.



On 3/11/10 10:15 AM, Matt S. wrote:

Have any of you taken on the challenge of learning Objective-C (or any
C-based language), coming from an AS/Scripting background? I came to
AS3 from a designer origin, taking the route from design to
HTML/CSS/Javascript to AS's 1,2 and 3, so while I'm pretty comfortable
in an oop/coding environment, I havent ventured into true programming
languages as of yet. The few times I've looked at the code it seems
like its less "natural" and more complex than an ECMA-based scripting
language but maybe thats just an initial reaction and not reality
based.

Anyway I'd love to hear y'alls 2¢... (oh and in case you hadnt guessed
this is iphone related ;) Since Adobe doesnt seem to be planning to
release CS5 any time soon — and no, October 2010 doesn't count as soon
—  I figured it was time to dive in ).

.m

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Re[2]: [Flashcoders] AS3 -> Objective-C

[Greg Ligierko]

I am learning ObjC for about a month. The purpose is porting and
existing AS2 application to iphone/ipad. Having very poor C experence
I can say, that knowing C is not something essential to familiarize
and then working fore real with apple frameworks.

Before I started XCode for good, I bought some books:

1) "Programming in Objective-C 2.0 (2nd Edition)" by Stephen G. Kochan.
It's about complete basics of ObjC, this one explains details of the
ObjC syntax, classes, interfaces, implementation, protocols, special
characters, memory management... in general - roots.

In Kochan's book, there is an interesting paragraph related directly to
your question about C (chapter "Underlaying C Language Features"):
"This chapter describes features of the ObjC language that you don't
necessarily need to know to write ObjC programs. In fact, most of 
these come from the underlaying C programming language. (...) some of
these features go against the grain of object oriented programming.
They can also interfere with some of strategies implemented by
Foundation framework such as memory allocation methodology or work
with character strings containing multibyte (UTF8) characters."


2) "Cocoa Design Patterns" Erik M. Buck
This one is great. It is like GOF translated to Apple frameworks. But
it is not as general as GOF. It is really based on the Cocoa language
features.

Kochan's book is like looking at ObjC through a microscope and Buck's
book is more like looking from a mountain into the cocoa valley :)

3,4) Two others by Dave Mark, dedicated to pure iPhone development.
They provide good intro to Interface Builder and iPhone features -
accelerometer, giro, multitouch, but most important - outlets and
delegates:
"Beginning iPhone 3 Development: Exploring the iPhone SDK"
"More iPhone 3 Development: Tackling iPhone SDK 3 (Beginning)"

g.



Tuesday, March 16, 2010 (9:36:01 PM):

> I think of the .h files as interfaces - it makes sense after that

> Sent from my iPhone

> On 16 Mar 2010, at 18:59, "Eric E. Dolecki"  wrote:

>> I have heard that one should know C before diving into Obj-C. I did  
>> not do
>> that as I wanted to dive in quicker. Once you get your head around  
>> memory
>> management and how to manipulate NSString, etc. you'll be well on  
>> your way.
>> The whole .h .m thing is strange, etc. I'm not sure if it would have  
>> made a
>> big difference for me to learn C first or not, but I chose not to  
>> and spent
>> a lot of time reading tutorials and books about Obj-C. I suppose it  
>> all
>> depends on what kind of sponge you are.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 2:30 PM, .matt  wrote:
>>
>>> So is it a fools errand to try to dive into iPhone dev without  
>>> knowing C
>>> going in? Can one bypass C and dive directly into O-C?
>>>
>>> .m
>>>


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Re: [Flashcoders] AS3 -> Objective-C

[allandt bik-elliott]

I think of the .h files as interfaces - it makes sense after that

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Mar 2010, at 18:59, "Eric E. Dolecki"  wrote:

I have heard that one should know C before diving into Obj-C. I did  
not do
that as I wanted to dive in quicker. Once you get your head around  
memory
management and how to manipulate NSString, etc. you'll be well on  
your way.
The whole .h .m thing is strange, etc. I'm not sure if it would have  
made a
big difference for me to learn C first or not, but I chose not to  
and spent
a lot of time reading tutorials and books about Obj-C. I suppose it  
all

depends on what kind of sponge you are.

Eric

On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 2:30 PM, .matt  wrote:

So is it a fools errand to try to dive into iPhone dev without  
knowing C

going in? Can one bypass C and dive directly into O-C?

.m

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Re: [Flashcoders] AS3 -> Objective-C

[Eric E. Dolecki]

I have heard that one should know C before diving into Obj-C. I did not do
that as I wanted to dive in quicker. Once you get your head around memory
management and how to manipulate NSString, etc. you'll be well on your way.
The whole .h .m thing is strange, etc. I'm not sure if it would have made a
big difference for me to learn C first or not, but I chose not to and spent
a lot of time reading tutorials and books about Obj-C. I suppose it all
depends on what kind of sponge you are.

Eric

On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 2:30 PM, .matt  wrote:

> So is it a fools errand to try to dive into iPhone dev without knowing C
> going in? Can one bypass C and dive directly into O-C?
>
> .m
>
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Re: [Flashcoders] AS3 -> Objective-C

[.matt]

So is it a fools errand to try to dive into iPhone dev without knowing  
C going in? Can one bypass C and dive directly into O-C?


.m
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Re: [Flashcoders] AS3 -> Objective-C

[allandt bik-elliott (thefieldcomic.com)]

hey guys

i picked up several books (because you never know which one will prove to be
the best to use and 4 of them are from a set) and have been flicking through
them and doing some of the tutorials. From my (very) limited experience with
cocoa touch i got some amazing insights into the mvc design pattern (which
it uses extensively) which really helped me so i agree with ericd regarding
learning a different language helping out

one of the books i got was about using blender with sio2 (a framework for
using blender and bullet physics with the iphone) which has been really good
especially going through matrix maths which has always baffled me

i really like the apress books so that's why i've added several from their
library

i've spoken to a couple of devs that have done some iphone work from doing
actionscript and they've all said about a month for a learning curve - i'm
going to be taking a month out around may to do this myself

i've included my booklist with links to amazon(.co.uk - you can find it for
yourself in the states) if it helps

best
a

booklist

apress books
beginning iphone development
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beginning-iPhone-Development-Exploring-SDK/dp/1430224592
more iphone 3 development
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/143022505X
iphone advanced projects
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1430224037
iphone cool projects
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/143022357X

Core Animation: Simplified Animation Techniques for Mac and iPhone
Development (Core Frameworks)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0321617754

whiley press
iphone game development
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0470496665

3D for IPhone Apps with Blender and SIO2
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0470574925



On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 3:57 PM, Steven Loe  wrote:

>
>
> I've dabbled with iPhone development, and in a month or so, you can get
> familiar with the development process and the language. But to be really
> good, you'll probably need something like this:
>
> http://stevenloe.com/iphone/learn_iphone_development_in_5_easy_steps.jpg
>
> -Steven Loe
>
>
> > Right, but I thought the question was, "how challenging was it to switch
> > to Objective-C from Actionscript 3"? - not "can I program for other
> > languages like c++ and PHP using a language similar to Actionscript"?
> > Seems like a completely different question to me.
> >
> >
> > Jason Merrill
> >
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Re: [Flashcoders] AS3 -> Objective-C

[Mark Winterhalder]

For those interested, iTunes-U has a Standford course for iPhone development.




On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Steven Loe  wrote:
>
>
> I've dabbled with iPhone development, and in a month or so, you can get 
> familiar with the development process and the language. But to be really 
> good, you'll probably need something like this:
>
> http://stevenloe.com/iphone/learn_iphone_development_in_5_easy_steps.jpg
>
> -Steven Loe
>
>
>> Right, but I thought the question was, "how challenging was it to switch
>> to Objective-C from Actionscript 3"? - not "can I program for other
>> languages like c++ and PHP using a language similar to Actionscript"?
>> Seems like a completely different question to me.
>>
>>
>> Jason Merrill
>>
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Re: [Flashcoders] AS3 -> Objective-C

[Steven Loe]

I've dabbled with iPhone development, and in a month or so, you can get 
familiar with the development process and the language. But to be really good, 
you'll probably need something like this:

http://stevenloe.com/iphone/learn_iphone_development_in_5_easy_steps.jpg

-Steven Loe


> Right, but I thought the question was, "how challenging was it to switch
> to Objective-C from Actionscript 3"? - not "can I program for other
> languages like c++ and PHP using a language similar to Actionscript"?
> Seems like a completely different question to me.
>
>
> Jason Merrill
>
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Re: [Flashcoders] AS3 -> Objective-C

[Matt S.]

Yeah, that was the question. Haxe looks interesting in its own right
though, and of course whatever gets the job done However, I am
fundamentally interested in the question of what Objective-C is like
and how easy a transition it would be. I'm quite comfortable with OOP,
within an AS3 framework(although I'm still wrapping my head around
Design Patterns), so I feel like I have the conceptual foundation
down, and just need to translate it a new language.

.m

On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Merrill, Jason
 wrote:

> Right, but I thought the question was, "how challenging was it to switch
> to Objective-C from Actionscript 3"? - not "can I program for other
> languages like c++ and PHP using a language similar to Actionscript"?
> Seems like a completely different question to me.
>
>
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Re: [Flashcoders] AS3 -> Objective-C

[tom rhodes]

more than one way to skin a cat :)

just thought it might be handy to look at given that Matt was weighing up
how much of a headache diving into objective-C woudl be...

On 11 March 2010 18:05, Merrill, Jason wrote:

> >> check out haxe (www.haxe.org), you can write in something almost
> identical
> >> to AS3 and target c++, cpp, php, javascript and neko when you
> compile.
>
> Right, but I thought the question was, "how challenging was it to switch
> to Objective-C from Actionscript 3"? - not "can I program for other
> languages like c++ and PHP using a language similar to Actionscript"?
> Seems like a completely different question to me.
>
>
> Jason Merrill
>
> Bank of  America  Global Learning
> Learning & Performance Solutions
>
> Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community  and visit our
> Instructional Technology Design Blog
> (note: these are for Bank of America employees only)
>
>
>
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Re: [Flashcoders] AS3 -> Objective-C

[Eric E. Dolecki]

I'll weigh in here - going for AS3 to Obj-C took me about a month to feel
comfortable with, and I'm learning new things all the time. There are so
many frameworks and methods, you feel overwhelmed when trying to do
something and you don't know the proper framework to do it quite yet. I have
grown to like Obj-C quite a lot. You can't quite make something as quickly
as you can in AS3 (not by a long shot), but it's powerful! And learning
memory management is a great thing that might influence what you do in AS3
to a degree.

Go for it... don't wait for CS5, learn some Obj-C today if you're
interested. The tools are free.

On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Merrill, Jason <
jason.merr...@bankofamerica.com> wrote:

> >> check out haxe (www.haxe.org), you can write in something almost
> identical
> >> to AS3 and target c++, cpp, php, javascript and neko when you
> compile.
>
> Right, but I thought the question was, "how challenging was it to switch
> to Objective-C from Actionscript 3"? - not "can I program for other
> languages like c++ and PHP using a language similar to Actionscript"?
> Seems like a completely different question to me.
>
>
> Jason Merrill
>
> Bank of  America  Global Learning
> Learning & Performance Solutions
>
> Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community  and visit our
> Instructional Technology Design Blog
> (note: these are for Bank of America employees only)
>
>
>
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RE: [Flashcoders] AS3 -> Objective-C

[Merrill, Jason]

>> check out haxe (www.haxe.org), you can write in something almost
identical
>> to AS3 and target c++, cpp, php, javascript and neko when you
compile.

Right, but I thought the question was, "how challenging was it to switch
to Objective-C from Actionscript 3"? - not "can I program for other
languages like c++ and PHP using a language similar to Actionscript"?
Seems like a completely different question to me.


Jason Merrill 

Bank of  America  Global Learning 
Learning & Performance Solutions

Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community  and visit our
Instructional Technology Design Blog
(note: these are for Bank of America employees only)



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Re: [Flashcoders] AS3 -> Objective-C

[.matt]

Good to know! I'll definitely check that out.

Cheers,

.matt

On Mar 11, 2010, at 10:28 AM, tom rhodes  wrote:

check out haxe (www.haxe.org), you can write in something almost  
identical

to AS3 and target c++, cpp, php, javascript and neko when you compile.

i haven't used it for c++ but i've followed conversations on the  
mailing
list about targetting the iphone. probably a good way to dip your  
toe in

while you are waiting for cs5...


On 11 March 2010 16:15, Matt S.  wrote:

Have any of you taken on the challenge of learning Objective-C (or  
any

C-based language), coming from an AS/Scripting background? I came to
AS3 from a designer origin, taking the route from design to
HTML/CSS/Javascript to AS's 1,2 and 3, so while I'm pretty  
comfortable

in an oop/coding environment, I havent ventured into true programming
languages as of yet. The few times I've looked at the code it seems
like its less "natural" and more complex than an ECMA-based scripting
language but maybe thats just an initial reaction and not reality
based.

Anyway I'd love to hear y'alls 2¢... (oh and in case you hadnt gue 
ssed

this is iphone related ;) Since Adobe doesnt seem to be planning to
release CS5 any time soon — and no, October 2010 doesn't count as  
soon

—  I figured it was time to dive in ).

.m

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Re: [Flashcoders] AS3 -> Objective-C

[tom rhodes]

check out haxe (www.haxe.org), you can write in something almost identical
to AS3 and target c++, cpp, php, javascript and neko when you compile.

i haven't used it for c++ but i've followed conversations on the mailing
list about targetting the iphone. probably a good way to dip your toe in
while you are waiting for cs5...


On 11 March 2010 16:15, Matt S.  wrote:

> Have any of you taken on the challenge of learning Objective-C (or any
> C-based language), coming from an AS/Scripting background? I came to
> AS3 from a designer origin, taking the route from design to
> HTML/CSS/Javascript to AS's 1,2 and 3, so while I'm pretty comfortable
> in an oop/coding environment, I havent ventured into true programming
> languages as of yet. The few times I've looked at the code it seems
> like its less "natural" and more complex than an ECMA-based scripting
> language but maybe thats just an initial reaction and not reality
> based.
>
> Anyway I'd love to hear y'alls 2¢... (oh and in case you hadnt guessed
> this is iphone related ;) Since Adobe doesnt seem to be planning to
> release CS5 any time soon — and no, October 2010 doesn't count as soon
> —  I figured it was time to dive in ).
>
> .m
>
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[Flashcoders] AS3 -> Objective-C

[Matt S.]

Have any of you taken on the challenge of learning Objective-C (or any
C-based language), coming from an AS/Scripting background? I came to
AS3 from a designer origin, taking the route from design to
HTML/CSS/Javascript to AS's 1,2 and 3, so while I'm pretty comfortable
in an oop/coding environment, I havent ventured into true programming
languages as of yet. The few times I've looked at the code it seems
like its less "natural" and more complex than an ECMA-based scripting
language but maybe thats just an initial reaction and not reality
based.

Anyway I'd love to hear y'alls 2¢... (oh and in case you hadnt guessed
this is iphone related ;) Since Adobe doesnt seem to be planning to
release CS5 any time soon — and no, October 2010 doesn't count as soon
—  I figured it was time to dive in ).

.m

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