Re: [Flashcoders] books for flash programming

2008-04-04 Thread Paul Andrews
- Original Message - 
From: Kerry Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'Flash Coders List' flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 2:45 AM
Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] books for flash programming



Vlado Krempl wrote:


I'm a designer who is getting more and more interested in programming and
not just actionscript 3.
From your list above, and in your opinion, which are the must learn
programs to learn?
I have been doing alot of reading on PHP, HTML, Javascript and

Actionscript

3.


Of the languages I know, the only one I could recommend for a young
programmer would be C++ (and, of course, ActionScript 3). Even that is
problematic, though--C++ may be an obsolescent language itself.


C++ would be the last language I would recommend (I worked as a freelance 
database developer using C++ for two years). It has multiple 'gotchas' and 
as Kerry has said is falling behind rapidly as an in-vogue development 
language. Ugh. If your interested, the most problems on my project (five 
developers working on it - not just me!), came from unintended references to 
temporary objects.


More to the point would be what language would I learn that I don't 
already

know. PHP would be near the top of the list. If you want to branch out, I
think C# and .NET is the up-and-coming language for the next few
years--actually, make that Visual Basic and C#, both with .NET.


Thre's also quite a buzz around Ruby right now.


Java would be high on my list, too, especially since it is so similar to
AS3. I think there is a future also for Python and some other Web-oriented
languages.


Java is a pretty good choice right now, and as Kerry says a really good fit 
with Actionscript and avoids many of the problems that C++ has.


What is clear is that, at the moment, Web-oriented development is the 
growth

field, more so than desktop apps.


Very true.


Cordially,

Kerry Thompson 


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Re: [Flashcoders] books for flash programming

2008-04-03 Thread Gert-Jan van der Wel
I agree with Alan. All the books in Jeff's list (
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/20.html) are wonderful. I
especially liked The Pragmatic Programmer: From Journeyman to
Masterhttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/020161622X/codinghorror-20
.

Gert-Jan

2008/4/3, Muzak [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Not to mention that a programmer who knows AS3, Java, and Lisp is
  immensely more valuable than one who just knows AS3. It proves you
  have the capacity to learn, which is a very marketable trait.
 
 
 BS.. Doesn't prove a thing..
 Someone who *just* knows AS3 may have - scratch that - *has* the capacity
 to learn any other language, but may never have had the need to.

 - Original Message - From: Cory Petosky 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Flash Coders List flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
 Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 11:54 PM
 Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] books for flash programming


  A native English speaker, when learning German, will generally remark
  Wow! Because of this feature in German, I now understand English a
  little better.
 
  Programming languages are the same way. Learning another
  object-oriented language will help you identify how features in
  ActionScript work (or don't work). And learning a language from
  another paradigm entirely (functional or procedural, probably) will
  help you identify weaknesses and strengths of object-oriented
  programming.
 
  Not to mention that a programmer who knows AS3, Java, and Lisp is
  immensely more valuable than one who just knows AS3. It proves you
  have the capacity to learn, which is a very marketable trait.
 
 
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Floorplanner.com
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Re: [Flashcoders] books for flash programming

2008-04-03 Thread Cory Petosky
That's not true. I'd say the majority of Flash coders I've met in real
life are pretty awful at AS3, and they're not worth hiring. Yet, they
get hired, because there's not enough Flash programmers to go around,
and the theory (in marketing agencies, anyway) is that a bad Flash
programmer is better than no Flash programmer at all. Beyond that,
most small marketing agencies can't tell a good Flash programmer from
a bad one anyway.

Knowing multiple languages well is a good indicator that you're a good
Flash programmer. This is not a causation statement, merely a
correlation. There are undoubtedly people who know multiple languages
who suck at Flash programming. Similarly, there are definitely people
who only know AS3 but are great Flash programmers. Nevertheless, in my
experience, the guys who have learned multiple languages (myself
included) understand the strengths and weaknesses of AS3/Flash much
better, on average, than those who have only ever used AS3/Flash.

In the end, though, the advantage to learning multiple languages is
that you'll be better at what you do. No question. It's been common
knowledge among programmers since the 1970s.

On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 6:38 PM, Muzak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Not to mention that a programmer who knows AS3, Java, and Lisp is
  immensely more valuable than one who just knows AS3. It proves you
  have the capacity to learn, which is a very marketable trait.
 
 

  BS.. Doesn't prove a thing..
  Someone who *just* knows AS3 may have - scratch that - *has* the capacity
 to learn any other language, but may never have had the need to.

  - Original Message - From: Cory Petosky
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: Flash Coders List flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
  Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 11:54 PM

  Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] books for flash programming



  A native English speaker, when learning German, will generally remark
  Wow! Because of this feature in German, I now understand English a
  little better.
 
  Programming languages are the same way. Learning another
  object-oriented language will help you identify how features in
  ActionScript work (or don't work). And learning a language from
  another paradigm entirely (functional or procedural, probably) will
  help you identify weaknesses and strengths of object-oriented
  programming.
 
  Not to mention that a programmer who knows AS3, Java, and Lisp is
  immensely more valuable than one who just knows AS3. It proves you
  have the capacity to learn, which is a very marketable trait.
 
 


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Minneapolis, MN 55413
Office: 612.216.3924
Mobile: 240.422.9652
Fax: 612.605.9216
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RE: [Flashcoders] books for flash programming

2008-04-03 Thread Kerry Thompson
Cory Petosky wrote:

 In the end, though, the advantage to learning multiple languages is
 that you'll be better at what you do. No question. It's been common
 knowledge among programmers since the 1970s.

I have to agree with Cory. I've been programming since 1981, and, to stay
employed, I have needed to learn Basic, COBOL, Fortran, Assembler, RPG,
Pascal, C, C++, HTML, JavaScript, VBScript, XSLT, Lingo, ActionScript (3
versions), and probably some others that I can't recall at the moment. (For
the record, my all-time favorite is ActionScript 3.)

I'm not saying that to boast, but to point out how quickly the industry
changes, and how adaptable you need to be. The ability to learn new
languages, and apply the algorithms you know to the new syntax, is crucial.
You young whippersnappers may not realize it, but ActionScript 3 will be
obsolete so quickly you won't know what happened. Flash itself may be
obsolete--it's already being replaced by Flex for a lot of code-heavy apps.
Look what happened to Director and Shockwave, once the king of the RIA.

When I started programming, only a few academics and military types knew
what a network was, nobody had e-mail, and even the term hyperlink was a
dreamer's concept. Nobody knows what computer science will look like in 10
years, much less 25. How many people here know how to program a quantum
computer where the unit of information is the Quark, which is not binary,
but may have 28 different states?

Programming languages are much like human languages. Learning a second
language makes it much easier to learn a third, then a fourth, and so on.
Plus, knowing another language helps you understand your primary language
better. I speak from experience (so to speak), as I learned Chinese as an
adult. It was a revelation, as was learning Assembler.

Don't get complacent with your AS3 or AS2 knowledge. You'll get stuck in a
rut, and your understanding of computers will be limited. Ask any programmer
who has done significant assembly-language programming. There's nothing like
getting close to the machine, on the bit level, to help you understand
what's happening in your ActionScript code, and how to optimize and organize
it.

Cordially,

Kerry Thompson


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Re: [Flashcoders] books for flash programming

2008-04-03 Thread Vlado Krempl

Kerry Thompson wrote:


I have to agree with Cory. I've been programming since 1981, and, to stay
employed, I have needed to learn Basic, COBOL, Fortran, Assembler, RPG,
Pascal, C, C++, HTML, JavaScript, VBScript, XSLT, Lingo, ActionScript (3
versions), and probably some others that I can't recall at the moment. (For
the record, my all-time favorite is ActionScript 3.)


Hi Kerry,

I'm a designer who is getting more and more interested in programming and 
not just actionscript 3.
From your list above, and in your opinion, which are the must learn 

programs to learn?
I have been doing alot of reading on PHP, HTML, Javascript and Actionscript 
3.


Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Vlado Krempl
Sydney, Australia

- Original Message - 
From: Kerry Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'Flash Coders List' flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 7:14 AM
Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] books for flash programming



Cory Petosky wrote:


In the end, though, the advantage to learning multiple languages is
that you'll be better at what you do. No question. It's been common
knowledge among programmers since the 1970s.


I have to agree with Cory. I've been programming since 1981, and, to stay
employed, I have needed to learn Basic, COBOL, Fortran, Assembler, RPG,
Pascal, C, C++, HTML, JavaScript, VBScript, XSLT, Lingo, ActionScript (3
versions), and probably some others that I can't recall at the moment. 
(For

the record, my all-time favorite is ActionScript 3.)

I'm not saying that to boast, but to point out how quickly the industry
changes, and how adaptable you need to be. The ability to learn new
languages, and apply the algorithms you know to the new syntax, is 
crucial.

You young whippersnappers may not realize it, but ActionScript 3 will be
obsolete so quickly you won't know what happened. Flash itself may be
obsolete--it's already being replaced by Flex for a lot of code-heavy 
apps.

Look what happened to Director and Shockwave, once the king of the RIA.

When I started programming, only a few academics and military types knew
what a network was, nobody had e-mail, and even the term hyperlink was a
dreamer's concept. Nobody knows what computer science will look like in 10
years, much less 25. How many people here know how to program a quantum
computer where the unit of information is the Quark, which is not binary,
but may have 28 different states?

Programming languages are much like human languages. Learning a second
language makes it much easier to learn a third, then a fourth, and so on.
Plus, knowing another language helps you understand your primary language
better. I speak from experience (so to speak), as I learned Chinese as an
adult. It was a revelation, as was learning Assembler.

Don't get complacent with your AS3 or AS2 knowledge. You'll get stuck in a
rut, and your understanding of computers will be limited. Ask any 
programmer
who has done significant assembly-language programming. There's nothing 
like

getting close to the machine, on the bit level, to help you understand
what's happening in your ActionScript code, and how to optimize and 
organize

it.

Cordially,

Kerry Thompson


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RE: [Flashcoders] books for flash programming

2008-04-03 Thread Kerry Thompson
Vlado Krempl wrote:

 I'm a designer who is getting more and more interested in programming and
 not just actionscript 3.
 From your list above, and in your opinion, which are the must learn
 programs to learn?
 I have been doing alot of reading on PHP, HTML, Javascript and
Actionscript
 3.

Of the languages I know, the only one I could recommend for a young
programmer would be C++ (and, of course, ActionScript 3). Even that is
problematic, though--C++ may be an obsolescent language itself.

More to the point would be what language would I learn that I don't already
know. PHP would be near the top of the list. If you want to branch out, I
think C# and .NET is the up-and-coming language for the next few
years--actually, make that Visual Basic and C#, both with .NET. 

Java would be high on my list, too, especially since it is so similar to
AS3. I think there is a future also for Python and some other Web-oriented
languages.

What is clear is that, at the moment, Web-oriented development is the growth
field, more so than desktop apps.

Cordially,

Kerry Thompson


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Re: [Flashcoders] books for flash programming

2008-04-03 Thread iHuman
I would suggest books where you can learn the principles of object  
oriented programming - as this will carry over to many languages. I  
wish I had learned it from the start!


elaine


On Apr 3, 2008, at 7:45 PM, Kerry Thompson wrote:

Vlado Krempl wrote:

I'm a designer who is getting more and more interested in  
programming and

not just actionscript 3.
From your list above, and in your opinion, which are the must  
learn

programs to learn?
I have been doing alot of reading on PHP, HTML, Javascript and

Actionscript

3.


Of the languages I know, the only one I could recommend for a young
programmer would be C++ (and, of course, ActionScript 3). Even that is
problematic, though--C++ may be an obsolescent language itself.

More to the point would be what language would I learn that I don't  
already
know. PHP would be near the top of the list. If you want to branch  
out, I

think C# and .NET is the up-and-coming language for the next few
years--actually, make that Visual Basic and C#, both with .NET.

Java would be high on my list, too, especially since it is so  
similar to
AS3. I think there is a future also for Python and some other Web- 
oriented

languages.

What is clear is that, at the moment, Web-oriented development is  
the growth

field, more so than desktop apps.

Cordially,

Kerry Thompson


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Re: [Flashcoders] books for flash programming

2008-04-02 Thread Cory Petosky
A native English speaker, when learning German, will generally remark
Wow! Because of this feature in German, I now understand English a
little better.

Programming languages are the same way. Learning another
object-oriented language will help you identify how features in
ActionScript work (or don't work). And learning a language from
another paradigm entirely (functional or procedural, probably) will
help you identify weaknesses and strengths of object-oriented
programming.

Not to mention that a programmer who knows AS3, Java, and Lisp is
immensely more valuable than one who just knows AS3. It proves you
have the capacity to learn, which is a very marketable trait.

On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Alan MacDougall
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


  On 3/24/08, Naveen Bhaskar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
   Hi,
  
   I am a flash designer and I am in intermediate in programming.(AS2).
  
   anybody pls tellme what are the good books I can refer.
  
  
 

  And remember, just learning Actionscript in particular will not teach you
 programming in general. Jeff Atwood has an excellent list of books on topics
 essential to all programmers, even Actionscript programmers:
 http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/20.html

  And if you really want to be a programmer, learn more than just
 Actionscript! A scripting language like Python, Ruby, or Perl will be
 extremely useful to you even as Flash developer -- but you'll never realize
 it until you've learned one.


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1618 Central Ave NE Suite 130
Minneapolis, MN 55413
Office: 612.216.3924
Mobile: 240.422.9652
Fax: 612.605.9216
http://www.punyentertainment.com
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Re: [Flashcoders] books for flash programming

2008-04-02 Thread Muzak

Not to mention that a programmer who knows AS3, Java, and Lisp is
immensely more valuable than one who just knows AS3. It proves you
have the capacity to learn, which is a very marketable trait.



BS.. Doesn't prove a thing..
Someone who *just* knows AS3 may have - scratch that - *has* the capacity to learn any other language, but may never have had the 
need to.


- Original Message - 
From: Cory Petosky [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Flash Coders List flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] books for flash programming



A native English speaker, when learning German, will generally remark
Wow! Because of this feature in German, I now understand English a
little better.

Programming languages are the same way. Learning another
object-oriented language will help you identify how features in
ActionScript work (or don't work). And learning a language from
another paradigm entirely (functional or procedural, probably) will
help you identify weaknesses and strengths of object-oriented
programming.

Not to mention that a programmer who knows AS3, Java, and Lisp is
immensely more valuable than one who just knows AS3. It proves you
have the capacity to learn, which is a very marketable trait.



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Re: [Flashcoders] books for flash programming

2008-04-01 Thread Alan MacDougall



On 3/24/08, Naveen Bhaskar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

Hi,

I am a flash designer and I am in intermediate in programming.(AS2).

anybody pls tellme what are the good books I can refer.



And remember, just learning Actionscript in particular will not teach 
you programming in general. Jeff Atwood has an excellent list of books 
on topics essential to all programmers, even Actionscript programmers: 
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/20.html


And if you really want to be a programmer, learn more than just 
Actionscript! A scripting language like Python, Ruby, or Perl will be 
extremely useful to you even as Flash developer -- but you'll never 
realize it until you've learned one.

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[Flashcoders] books for flash programming

2008-03-24 Thread Naveen Bhaskar
Hi,

I am a flash designer and I am in intermediate in programming.(AS2).

anybody pls tellme what are the good books I can refer.
or is there any good website for learning programming and also have good
tutorials...


thanks in advance

navii
-
thanks and regards
Naveen Bhaskar Menon
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Re: [Flashcoders] books for flash programming

2008-03-24 Thread Allandt Bik-Elliott (Receptacle)

gotoandlearn.com
learnflash.com
flashkit.com

essential actionscript 3.0 (colin moock)

i'd start at these

a


On 24 Mar 2008, at 07:21, Naveen Bhaskar wrote:



I am a flash designer and I am in intermediate in programming.(AS2).

anybody pls tellme what are the good books I can refer.
or is there any good website for learning programming and also have  
good

tutorials...


thanks in advance



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Re: [Flashcoders] books for flash programming

2008-03-24 Thread Stuart (FunkDaWeb)
 have purchased these following books...

 Adobe Flash CS3 Professional Bible

 ActionScript 3.0 Cookbook: Solutions for Flash Platform and Flex Application 
Developers

 How to Cheat in Adobe Flash CS3: The Art of Design and Animation

 Advanced Actionscript 3 with Design Patterns 

   Flash CS3 Professional for Windows and Macintosh:Visual QuickStart Guide 


SM
  - Original Message - 
  From: Allandt Bik-Elliott (Receptacle) 
  To: Flash Coders List 
  Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:56 AM
  Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] books for flash programming


  gotoandlearn.com
  learnflash.com
  flashkit.com

  essential actionscript 3.0 (colin moock)

  i'd start at these

  a


  On 24 Mar 2008, at 07:21, Naveen Bhaskar wrote:

  
   I am a flash designer and I am in intermediate in programming.(AS2).
  
   anybody pls tellme what are the good books I can refer.
   or is there any good website for learning programming and also have  
   good
   tutorials...
  
  
   thanks in advance
  

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Re: [Flashcoders] books for flash programming

2008-03-24 Thread William Chadwick
 Adobe Developer Connection ActionScript Technology Center
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/actionscript/

There's also the LiveDocs site for ActionScript:
http://livedocs.adobe.com/flex/3/html/help.html?content=Part6_ProgAS_1.html

Lynda.com has a collection of eLearning by Joey Lott that is pretty good.

Essential ActionScript 3.0 by Colin Moock
Publisher: O'ReillyPub Date: June 15, 2007
Print ISBN-10: 0-596-52694-6 Print ISBN-13: 978-0-59-652694-8
Pages: 946

Advanced ActionScript 3 with Design Patterns  by Joey Lott, Danny
Patterson
Publisher: Adobe Press  Pub Date: November 02, 2006
Print ISBN-10: 0-321-42656-8 Print ISBN-13: 978-0-321-42656-7
Programming FlexTM 2 by Chafic Kazoun; Joey Lott
Publisher: O'Reilly Pub Date: April 15, 2007
Print ISBN-10: 0-596-52689-X Print ISBN-13: 978-0-59-652689-4
Pages: 502

ActionScript 3.0 Cookbook by Joey Lott; Keith Peters; Darron Schall
Publisher: O'Reilly Pub Date: October 01, 2006
Print ISBN-10: 0-596-52695-4 Print ISBN-13: 978-0-59-652695-5
Pages: 592

ActionScript 3.0 Design Patterns by William B. Sanders; Chandima
Cumaranatunge
Publisher: O'Reilly Pub Date: July 01, 2007
Print ISBN-13: 978-0-59-652846-1
Pages: 532

Here you go!

William

On 3/24/08, Naveen Bhaskar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi,

 I am a flash designer and I am in intermediate in programming.(AS2).

 anybody pls tellme what are the good books I can refer.
 or is there any good website for learning programming and also have good
 tutorials...


 thanks in advance

 navii
 -
 thanks and regards

 Naveen Bhaskar Menon
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