Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-17 Thread Charles Parcell
heh  yeah your thread got hijacked.

Charles P.


On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Todd Kerpelman t...@kerp.net wrote:

 By the way, in case anybody was wondering, I ended up picking up the
 O'Reilly Flex Cookbook over the Training From the Source one, primarily
 because the O'Reilly site had a very simple Buy the PDF option. (It's a
 little easier to read and code on the train if I can just have everything
 on
 my laptop.) Somebody oughta tell these Adobe folks about this .pdf format
 I've been hearing so much about. I bet they'd like it!

 --T


 On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 2:29 AM, Paul Andrews p...@ipauland.com wrote:

  I think one of the things that will determine whether you like Flex
  training from the source, is whether you want a book you can just read
 and
  later pick up and thumb through a section. Flex training from the source
 is
  arranged more as a series of hands-on exercises where the reader is told
 how
  to follow through on a computer and any discussion is based on the
 practical
  work done. It's not so much a Pick me up and dip into me type of book
  because so much of the content is centred around actively sitting at a
  computer doing the exercises. It would make a poor reference but is
 strong
  at hands-on. Very much a doing book.
 
  Paul
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RE: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-17 Thread Merrill, Jason
 By the way, in case anybody was wondering, I ended up picking up the
O'Reilly Flex Cookbook
 heh  yeah your thread got hijacked.

Heh, yeah sorry Todd.  

And by the way, in case anyone was wondering, Dave Watts spend a lot of
time with me off list helping me get my copy of Flexbuilder 3 working
again.  Turns out there were two causes to the memory problem.  The
magic solution was to change the xms setting in my flexbuilder.ini file
to 256 instead of 1024 and also upgrade the Java runtime Flexbuilder
uses from 1.5 to 1.6.  

Hope that helps somebody.


Jason Merrill 

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Shared Services Solutions Development 

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Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-16 Thread Todd Kerpelman
By the way, in case anybody was wondering, I ended up picking up the
O'Reilly Flex Cookbook over the Training From the Source one, primarily
because the O'Reilly site had a very simple Buy the PDF option. (It's a
little easier to read and code on the train if I can just have everything on
my laptop.) Somebody oughta tell these Adobe folks about this .pdf format
I've been hearing so much about. I bet they'd like it!

--T


On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 2:29 AM, Paul Andrews p...@ipauland.com wrote:

 I think one of the things that will determine whether you like Flex
 training from the source, is whether you want a book you can just read and
 later pick up and thumb through a section. Flex training from the source is
 arranged more as a series of hands-on exercises where the reader is told how
 to follow through on a computer and any discussion is based on the practical
 work done. It's not so much a Pick me up and dip into me type of book
 because so much of the content is centred around actively sitting at a
 computer doing the exercises. It would make a poor reference but is strong
 at hands-on. Very much a doing book.

 Paul
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Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-15 Thread Paul Andrews
I think one of the things that will determine whether you like Flex training 
from the source, is whether you want a book you can just read and later pick 
up and thumb through a section. Flex training from the source is arranged 
more as a series of hands-on exercises where the reader is told how to 
follow through on a computer and any discussion is based on the practical 
work done. It's not so much a Pick me up and dip into me type of book 
because so much of the content is centred around actively sitting at a 
computer doing the exercises. It would make a poor reference but is strong 
at hands-on. Very much a doing book.


Paul 


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Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-15 Thread Dave Watts
 I understand what you mean, but I am using the stand alone.  If Flexbuilder 
 had been its
 own 100% Adobe-made application (meaning not coupled to Eclipse), having the 
 stand
 alone version of Flexbuilder, I could still download and run Eclipse 
 separately and use it for
 other things.

Oh, you can still do that if you want to. Our training rooms have both
installed - FlexBuilder standalone and Eclipse with the FlexBuilder
plugin. That does take extra disk space, though.

 And Adobe loses a lot of control over the UI by having it be integrated or as 
 a plug-in for
 Eclipse - or at least, they have not modified it to look like other Adobe 
 apps - it looks totally
 separate.

Yes. But I like this. And for what it's worth, there are other Adobe
apps built on Eclipse, like LiveCycle Workbench and the upcoming CF
editor Bolt. Adobe is definitely moving to Eclipse for programming
IDEs.

 Also, due to the nature of working for a huge company with lots of IT 
 security measures, we
 have to go through lengthy architecture reviews of software before it gets 
 installed.  Since
 Eclipse is basically an open-sourced application, and is always changing, it 
 makes it much
 harder to get through our approval process.

Just pick a version and stick with it. You don't have to upgrade
Eclipse. I don't think the version of Eclipse that's bundled with the
FlexBuilder install has changed.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
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Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-15 Thread Dave Watts
 This pattern repeats itself to the end of the book.  It's a terrible way to
 teach something.  We'll teach you the wrong way, then we'll tell you it's
 the wrong way after you already learned the lesson.  Do they know nothing
 about the learning process?  Apparently so.

Actually, this approach is pretty common in all sorts of training
material. You learn the easy way first, then you learn the drawbacks
of the easy way, then you learn the right way.

If you just jump to the right way, students will discover the easy way
on their own after training, and just do that instead. Also, they'll
have to learn a bunch of concepts at once in class, rather than
learning them one at a time.

I know that in Flex classes, the biggest problem students generally
have is understanding why they should use custom events instead of
just binding to component properties. If you took that on all at once,
you'd lose a lot of people.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
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RE: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-15 Thread Merrill, Jason
Just pick a version and stick with it. You don't have to upgrade
Eclipse. 

Right, except in a case like this memory problem, you did say when we
were trying to troubleshoot my problems:

1. Use a different (newer) version of Eclipse.
2. Use a different JVM with Eclipse.

Another part of the problem, is that its open sourced (security risk,
unknown and unfamiliar vendors).  Also its essentially two applications
working together for a single user experience.  Trying to explain that
to the people doing the review and packaging was difficult to say the
least, especially when I didn't really understand how it works - we
eventually got it approved, but because of those two reasons, it took a
lot longer than if it was just say, Photoshop CS4. Plain and simple, it
would have made our lives a lot better if Adobe had developed 100% of
the application themselved and packaged it as a single piece of
software.  Also understanding how the two apps work together makes it
hard to troubleshoot problems.

OK, I don't know why I'm still defending myself and talking about it. :)
It was a royal pain, and despite your points, I still wish Adobe had
taken a different strategy.  Perhaps if I worked for a very small
company, I would feel differently.


Jason Merrill 

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Shared Services Solutions Development 

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Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-15 Thread Dave Watts
  Just pick a version and stick with it. You don't have to upgrade
  Eclipse.

 Right, except in a case like this memory problem, you did say when we
 were trying to troubleshoot my problems:

Well, that's no different from any other upgrade, though. If
Dreamweaver CS4 works better than Dreamweaver CS3, I can upgrade or
not, right? And it'll have to go through the same approval process, I
would think, right?

In any case, I strongly suspect that your Tivoli package was the
problem. Perhaps it didn't set environment variables properly, or
something. I've never had memory problems with Eclipse, from 3.2 to
the current version - the only reason I've upgraded is because Eclipse
itself has added new, useful features.

 Another part of the problem, is that its open sourced (security risk,
 unknown and unfamiliar vendors).

Open source is a security risk? Really? That's just a bizarre
statement to make. I grant you that there's no one you can sue, but
Eclipse is a known quantity, and it's used in environments that I can
guarantee with certainty are as secure as yours.

 Also its essentially two applications working together for a single user
 experience. Trying to explain that to the people doing the review and
 packaging was difficult to say the least, especially when I didn't really
 understand how it works - we eventually got it approved, but because
 of those two reasons, it took a lot longer than if it was just say,
 Photoshop CS4.

If you were using the integrated install option, I don't know why
you'd have to bother telling them anything other than it's
FlexBuilder 3. From the end-user's perspective, when you install it
with the integrated installer, there's no clear separation between
FlexBuilder and Eclipse - you just run setup.exe and click next over
and over again just like any other Windows application, and all the
files get dumped in one directory.

I prefer installing FlexBuilder as an Eclipse plugin because I'm
already using Eclipse. But if that's not the case, you really don't
have to worry about it.

 OK, I don't know why I'm still defending myself and talking about it. :)

Me neither, except in the hope that it'll be helpful to someone. I can
only ask you to remember the glory that was FlexBuilder 1.0. Yecch.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
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RE: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-15 Thread Merrill, Jason
 Right, except in a case like this memory problem, you did say when we 
 were trying to troubleshoot my problems:

Well, that's no different from any other upgrade, And it'll have to go 
through the same approval process, I would think, right?

Well yeah, but each time - so I got FB 3 approved, but now that I have this 
memory problem, to fix it you're saying upgrade Eclipse.  Well guess what?  
That means another lengthy approval process and review (time and resources) to 
approve a newer version of a piece of software that should have worked in the 
first place.

 In any case, I strongly suspect that your Tivoli package was the problem.

Yes, I would almost bet money on that.  But I really think the reason it was so 
hard to package and how it got messed up was because of the complexity of how 
Adobe made it an integrated part of Eclipse - not a single piece of software.  
On my machine, Flexbuilder 3 and Eclipse exist in two different directories, 
I'm not sure how that happened or if that is how Adobe set it up.

Open source is a security risk? Really? That's just a bizarre statement to 
make

Uh, YEAH!  And that's not a bizarre statement. Maybe you don't agree with it, 
but it's certainly not bizarre.  This is a known issue in large corporations. 
Here is a very recent article on a study that explains it better than I can: 
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/072108-open-source-security-risk.html  -  
and another take on the same article: 
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-123151.html  the first paragraph reads, 
Open source software is a significant security risk for corporations that use 
it because in many cases, the open source community fails to adhere to minimal 
security best practices, according a study released Monday. Yes, with open 
source, you don't have business relationships with the company - anyone could 
be part of the development, from anywhere, and because any almost Joe Schmoe 
can contribute to the codebase if they sign up and have skills, they don't 
necessarily adhere to guidelines.  Yes, it is a higher security risk to use 
open source rather !
 than using software developed by Microsoft, Apple, Cisco, IBM or Adobe for 
example.  An entity with a proven track record, including a record of security 
measures, and business relationships with my company.  And you're right, not 
having someone to sue IS a risk.

 From the end-user's perspective, when you install it
with the integrated installer
 you just run setup.exe and click next over
and over again just like any other Windows application, and all the
files get dumped in one directory.

Dave,   you make it sound so simple, it's not that simple.  They tear open the 
installer before it even gets to me.  They look at all the files involved, what 
types they are, what they do, how they interact, etc.  Remember, I work for one 
of the world's largest companies and IT security is one of our top priorities.  
When they guy called me on the phone, he asked about Eclipse, and was confused 
why that was getting installed when what was being approved was Flexbuilder.  
When I tried to explain that its essentially all one app - that Flex uses 
Eclipse as a base, he didn't get it.  When I said Eclipse was an open source 
application that Adobe built Flex on, he was further confused and concerned 
about security.  You can see the headaches that causes.  Well, maybe not, but 
it did. 


Jason Merrill 

Bank of  America   Global Learning 
Shared Services Solutions Development 

Monthly meetings on the Adobe Flash platform for rich media experiences - join 
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-Original Message-
From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com 
[mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Dave Watts
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 11:15 AM
To: Flash Coders List
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

  Just pick a version and stick with it. You don't have to upgrade
  Eclipse.

 Right, except in a case like this memory problem, you did say when we
 were trying to troubleshoot my problems:

Well, that's no different from any other upgrade, though. If
Dreamweaver CS4 works better than Dreamweaver CS3, I can upgrade or
not, right? And it'll have to go through the same approval process, I
would think, right?

In any case, I strongly suspect that your Tivoli package was the
problem. Perhaps it didn't set environment variables properly, or
something. I've never had memory problems with Eclipse, from 3.2 to
the current version - the only reason I've upgraded is because Eclipse
itself has added new, useful features.

 Another part of the problem, is that its open sourced (security risk,
 unknown and unfamiliar vendors).

Open source is a security risk? Really? That's just a bizarre
statement to make. I grant you that there's no one you can sue, but
Eclipse is a known quantity, and it's used in environments that I can
guarantee with certainty are as secure as yours.

 Also its

Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-15 Thread Dave Watts
 Well yeah, but each time - so I got FB 3 approved, but now that I have this 
 memory
 problem, to fix it you're saying upgrade Eclipse.  Well guess what?  That 
 means another
 lengthy approval process and review (time and resources) to approve a newer 
 version of a
 piece of software that should have worked in the first place.

I suggested a variety of things to try. If you can't do one of them,
try the others instead. But I don't see how this is any different from
telling someone that a feature didn't work right in DW CS3 and does
work right in CS4.

That said, the FlexBuilder integrated install works fine in the vast
majority of cases without any configuration after install.

  In any case, I strongly suspect that your Tivoli package was the problem.

 Yes, I would almost bet money on that.  But I really think the reason it was 
 so hard to
 package and how it got messed up was because of the complexity of how Adobe 
 made it
 an integrated part of Eclipse - not a single piece of software.  On my 
 machine, Flexbuilder 3
 and Eclipse exist in two different directories, I'm not sure how that 
 happened or if that is
 how Adobe set it up.

That's not the integrated install. That's Eclipse, with the
FlexBuilder plugin installed separately. I would recommend that you
try building a Tivoli package with just the integrated install.
Everything will end up in c:\program files\adobe\flex builder.

  Open source is a security risk? Really? That's just a bizarre statement to 
  make

 Uh, YEAH!  And that's not a bizarre statement. Maybe you don't agree with 
 it, but it's
 certainly not bizarre. This is a known issue in large corporations. Here is a 
 very recent
 article on a study that explains it better than I can:
 http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/072108-open-source-security-risk.html  
 -  and
 another take on the same article: 
 http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-123151.html  the
 first paragraph reads, Open source software is a significant security risk 
 for corporations
 that use it because in many cases, the open source community fails to adhere 
 to minimal
 security best practices, according a study released Monday. Yes, with open 
 source, you
 don't have business relationships with the company - anyone could be part 
 of the
 development, from anywhere, and because any almost Joe Schmoe can contribute 
 to the
 codebase if they sign up and have skills, they don't necessarily adhere to 
 guidelines.  Yes,
 it is a higher security risk to use open source rather than using software 
 developed by
 Microsoft, Apple, Cisco, IBM or Adobe for example.  An entity with a proven 
 track record,
 including a record of security measures, and business relationships with my 
 company.
 And you're right, not having someone to sue IS a risk.

OK. I'm not much of an open source zealot, but the vast majority of
that is pure bunk.

First, there is no single open source community, just like there is
no single community that encompasses closed-source vendors. The
security practices of development groups vary from one group to the
next, just like the security practices of Microsoft and IBM are almost
certainly different. Most successful large open source projects don't
just let Joe Schmoe contribute. If you take a look at a lot of the
Apache projects, you can see that the developers are being subsidized
by companies like ... Adobe!

The primary salient difference between open source and closed source
is simply this - open source code can be reviewed. Closed source code
cannot.

And, you have to evaluate security concerns from the appropriate
perspective. Eclipse is, at its base, a text editor. The threat
profile for a text editor is very, very low. If you take a look at
your first link, you'll notice that the products in the study are all
application servers, which have a much higher threat profile.
Application servers, by their very nature, allow remote execution of
code, which is a very dangerous thing! Text editors, on the other
hand, can't do much except edit files. Adobe Acrobat is a much more
dangerous product to have installed. With the latest vulnerability
that was open for about a month and fixed a few weeks ago - one that
would allow a malformed PDF to gain control of the entire machine - I
sure hope you've patched that!

And as for that second link, I would recommend that you ignore it;
it's pure propaganda, bought and paid for by Microsoft.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=AdTI-Funding

They also work for Big Tobacco! It's a small world, I guess.

Finally, the problem of mixing open source with proprietary
solutions is becoming more common, so you will simply have to get used
to this - many proprietary software packages contain open source
components. For example, Adobe ColdFusion includes Apache Axis (among
many other things). One of the lead Axis developers was Tom Jordahl -
an Adobe employee. Adobe LiveCycle ES comes with JBoss and MySQL.

  From the end-user's perspective, when you 

RE: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-15 Thread Merrill, Jason
Dave, I'm really growing weary of this thread, I see we're not on the
same side of the issue, and that isn't going to change, but I do have to
respond to one last thing you said:

 So I'm at least aware of security issues within the enterprise. None
of these things should be that big of a hurdle for you.

Well, should is different than is.  I think you are missing that
point - the what you think the situation SHOULD be, vs. the reality of
our security measures. I am not the one who decides if open source
software is considered a higher security risk (though I still agree that
it is, based on the points I raised, but I also love the stuff, I use
FlashDevelop daily for example).  So reality is, it is perceived as a
higher security risk in our enterprise, and I cannot change that fact.
I have other issues with open source like the article mentioned, like
poor customer support and service plans, but that is another issue
altogether and unrelated to this discussion. Also, I used to work in DC
for a government contractor too, 5 years, worked with many agencies, and
I am familiar with how they work.

This is my last post on the subject, thanks,


Jason Merrill 

Bank of  America   Global Learning 
Shared Services Solutions Development 

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Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-15 Thread Dave Watts
 Dave, I'm really growing weary of this thread, I see we're not on the
 same side of the issue, and that isn't going to change, but I do have to
 respond to one last thing you said:

I'm not really on a side here, I'm just trying to provide information.
I'm not trying to antagonize you. But yeah, at this point I'm probably
not helping anymore; I'll be happy to help with any configuration
questions you have, though.

 Well, should is different than is.  I think you are missing that
 point - the what you think the situation SHOULD be, vs. the reality of
 our security measures.

Yeah, I know should is different from is. But that's my point.
There are plenty of places which are equally concerned about security,
and they're able to pull this off. So, saying that Adobe should change
the product because your admins can't deploy it properly is, I think,
a misplaced sentiment.

 So reality is, it is perceived as a higher security risk in our enterprise,
 and I cannot change that fact.

I agree with this. My previous point was that this was a matter of
perception, not an actual statement about how the world works. The
secure computing community is all over open source, and that simply
wouldn't be the case if this perception were actually true.

 I have other issues with open source like the article mentioned, like
 poor customer support and service plans, but that is another issue
 altogether and unrelated to this discussion.

I think that's certainly a valid point generally, but you're right -
in this case it doesn't matter because Adobe supports FlexBuilder
directly.

 This is my last post on the subject, thanks,

Mine too, unless you have any specific configuration questions, I guess.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
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RE: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-15 Thread Merrill, Jason
I'll be happy to help with any configuration questions you have 

I'm going to try and fix Flexbuilder this afternoon - I might if I run
into problems.  I appreciate the offer, thanks!


Jason Merrill 

Bank of  America   Global Learning 
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Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-15 Thread Dave Watts
 I'm going to try and fix Flexbuilder this afternoon - I might if I run
 into problems.  I appreciate the offer, thanks!

Well, one nice thing that I neglected to mention earlier is that there
aren't many ties between Eclipse and your OS - you can zip the whole
thing up on one machine, and unzip it on another. So, you might be
able to set this up without getting the Tivoli guys involved, as you
really don't need to install anything.

In fact, if it would be helpful, I can zip up a copy and put it somewhere.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
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Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
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Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-15 Thread Anthony Pace

Hello,

I have to put my 2 cents in with regard to security.  Open source is 
safer; for, I can scrutinize every line of code without having to jump 
through hoops.


If there is an issue with open source in the enterprise, this is usually 
caused by licensing factors, not security.  (BS intellectual property 
copyright/patent issues.)


Open source equates to progress, and although this create avenues for 
competition, competition is healthy for the marketplace and helps to 
keep costs down.


Thank you,
Anthony


Merrill, Jason wrote:

Dave, I'm really growing weary of this thread, I see we're not on the
same side of the issue, and that isn't going to change, but I do have to
respond to one last thing you said:

  

So I'm at least aware of security issues within the enterprise. None
  

of these things should be that big of a hurdle for you.

Well, should is different than is.  I think you are missing that
point - the what you think the situation SHOULD be, vs. the reality of
our security measures. I am not the one who decides if open source
software is considered a higher security risk (though I still agree that
it is, based on the points I raised, but I also love the stuff, I use
FlashDevelop daily for example).  So reality is, it is perceived as a
higher security risk in our enterprise, and I cannot change that fact.
I have other issues with open source like the article mentioned, like
poor customer support and service plans, but that is another issue
altogether and unrelated to this discussion. Also, I used to work in DC
for a government contractor too, 5 years, worked with many agencies, and
I am familiar with how they work.

This is my last post on the subject, thanks,


Jason Merrill 

Bank of  America   Global Learning 
Shared Services Solutions Development 


Monthly meetings on the Adobe Flash platform for rich media experiences
- join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community 


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RE: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-15 Thread Merrill, Jason
 In fact, if it would be helpful, I can zip up a copy and put it
somewhere.

Yeah, but don't I need a legal copy?  We purchased a license with
charting.


Jason Merrill 

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Shared Services Solutions Development 

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RE: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-15 Thread Merrill, Jason
Ha.  Well great, seems my eclipse.ini file is missing - could you send
me a good one (meaning good settings - I have 2GB ram) or copy and paste
the contents into a reply and I'll make one with notepad and add the
.ini extension?  Thanks.  I had done this before with the
Flexbuilder.ini file because that had been missing too.

Also, my Eclipse seems to be in a folder at the same level as the
Flexbuilder 3 folder -not IN the Flexbuilder 3 folder.  Is that a
problem?  I can get Flexbuilder to run, it just quickly later on gives
me a memory error and quits.

Thanks,

Jason Merrill 

Bank of  America   Global Learning 
Shared Services Solutions Development 

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oders
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Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-15 Thread Dave Watts
 Ha.  Well great, seems my eclipse.ini file is missing - could you send
 me a good one (meaning good settings - I have 2GB ram) or copy and paste
 the contents into a reply and I'll make one with notepad and add the
 .ini extension?  Thanks.  I had done this before with the
 Flexbuilder.ini file because that had been missing too.

OK. On the desktop I'm working with right now, with a default
integrated install of FlexBuilder, here's my FlexBuilder.ini file:

-vmargs
-Xms128m
-Xmx512m
-XX:MaxPermSize=256m
-XX:PermSize=64m
-Djava.net.preferIPv4Stack=true

This machine also has 2GB RAM, and I haven't had any problems with it.
In the case of the integrated install, FlexBuilder will by default use
the JVM installed in c:\program files\adobe\flex builder 3\jre, which
is 1.5.0_11-b03. You can safely increase -Xms to 512m, which would
allocate all of that memory before startup.

 Also, my Eclipse seems to be in a folder at the same level as the
 Flexbuilder 3 folder -not IN the Flexbuilder 3 folder.  Is that a
 problem?  I can get Flexbuilder to run, it just quickly later on gives
 me a memory error and quits.

With the FlexBuilder plugin installed into an existing copy of
Eclipse, you typically have these two directories:

c:\eclipse
c:\program files\adobe\flex builder 3 plug-in

The FB3 plugin directory contains a subdirectory named eclipse, but
that's not where Eclipse actually lives.

If you can, you might check your Eclipse configuration settings. You
can get to this by choosing the last item from the Help menu, then
clicking on Configuration Settings. I'll email you the settings from
both installs on this desktop.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!

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RE: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-15 Thread Merrill, Jason
Awesome, thanks Dave - great info, I appreciate your time spent writing
all that up, and also for the files you send off list.  I really
appreciate it.  I'll plug these in tonight and see if I get better
results.


Jason Merrill 

Bank of  America   Global Learning 
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RE: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-15 Thread Merrill, Jason
 In the case of the integrated install, FlexBuilder will by default
use the JVM installed in c:\program files\adobe\flex builder 3\jre

I looked in that folder, and all I see are license files, copyright,
readme files, etc. and a bin and a lib folder.  Is it installed in one
of those or could I possibly be missing something there too?  What is
the filename(s) of your JRE?


Jason Merrill 

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Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-15 Thread Dave Watts
 I looked in that folder, and all I see are license files, copyright,
 readme files, etc. and a bin and a lib folder.  Is it installed in one
 of those or could I possibly be missing something there too?  What is
 the filename(s) of your JRE?

That's all you should have. Java lives in the bin and lib folders.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!

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RE: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-15 Thread Merrill, Jason
I compared differences between your Flexbuilder 3 directory and mine, the only 
differences I saw were related to log files:

You have:  FlashPlayerMergeModule_InstallLog.log  and 
Adobe_Flex_Builder_3_InstallLog.log  and I don't.
I have: hs_err_pid10724.log, hs_err_pid7148.log, hs_err_pid4728.log and you 
don't.


Jason Merrill 

Bank of  America   Global Learning 
Shared Services Solutions Development 

Monthly meetings on the Adobe Flash platform for rich media experiences - join 
the Bank of America Flash Platform Community 





-Original Message-
From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com 
[mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Dave Watts
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 8:44 PM
To: Flash Coders List
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

 I looked in that folder, and all I see are license files, copyright,
 readme files, etc. and a bin and a lib folder.  Is it installed in one
 of those or could I possibly be missing something there too?  What is
 the filename(s) of your JRE?

That's all you should have. Java lives in the bin and lib folders.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!

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RE: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-15 Thread Merrill, Jason
Oops - meant to send that offlist (Dave was helping me)


Jason Merrill 

Bank of  America   Global Learning 
Shared Services Solutions Development 

Monthly meetings on the Adobe Flash platform for rich media experiences
- join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community 





-Original Message-
From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com
[mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Merrill,
Jason
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 8:53 PM
To: Flash Coders List
Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

I compared differences between your Flexbuilder 3 directory and mine,
the only differences I saw were related to log files:

You have:  FlashPlayerMergeModule_InstallLog.log  and
Adobe_Flex_Builder_3_InstallLog.log  and I don't.
I have: hs_err_pid10724.log, hs_err_pid7148.log, hs_err_pid4728.log and
you don't.


Jason Merrill 

Bank of  America   Global Learning 
Shared Services Solutions Development 

Monthly meetings on the Adobe Flash platform for rich media experiences
- join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community 
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RE: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-14 Thread Merrill, Jason
(On a side note, are there people out there who are successfully using
FlashDevelop with the FlexDesignView plugin for real development? Or
should
I lay down the cash for FlexBuilder?)

I'm using FlashDevelop + the free Flex SDK from Adobe to create Flex
apps.  Works great, no problems.  I didn't know about the FlexDesignView
plugin until you mentioned it!  My only problem with using the Flex SDK
this way is it doesn't include the charting components.  I have
Flexbuilder but don't use it much because I have so many out of memory
errors with it, I haven't been able to get those under control - only
happens with Flexbuilder - not with any other multimedia application.
And I have 2GB RAM.  I'm really disappointed in Adobe for not addressing
this issue - but sorry, back to your topic:

To fit your description, I like the Flex 3 Cookbook from O'Reilly press
- though I does not compare Flash and Flex if that is what you are
looking for.  It's just filled with tons of examples on how you would
solve specific problems with Flex:  

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0596529856/?tag=googhydr-20hvadid=3383658585r
ef=pd_sl_74cudeesgv_e

For training, I like the Adobe Flex training from the source book(s). I
have the one for Flex 2, but here is the latest:

http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Flex-3-Training-Source/dp/0321529189/ref=sr_
1_1?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1239732077sr=1-1

Some people like the Friends of Ed books too - I have some of those and
they are great, but they are for Actionscript 3 and design patterns, not
Flex.  The Friends of Ed books on Flex are probably pretty good too.


Jason Merrill 

Bank of  America   Learning Performance Solutions Instructional
Technology  Media   
Monthly meetings on the Adobe Flash platform for rich media experiences
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-Original Message-
From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com
[mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Todd
Kerpelman
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 1:57 PM
To: Flash Coders List
Subject: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

Hey, guys.

So at this point I feel like I've got a pretty good handle on AS3, but
I'd
like to get some experience with more Flex-specific development. Is
there a
favorite book that people have of the various ones that are out there?
Ideally, I'd like to find one that spends less time rehashing
ActionScript
and a little more time focusing on what's new or different in Flex.

(On a side note, are there people out there who are successfully using
FlashDevelop with the FlexDesignView plugin for real development? Or
should
I lay down the cash for FlexBuilder?)

Thanks!

--T
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Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-14 Thread Dave Watts
 I have Flexbuilder but don't use it much because I have so many out of memory
 errors with it, I haven't been able to get those under control - only
 happens with Flexbuilder - not with any other multimedia application.
 And I have 2GB RAM.  I'm really disappointed in Adobe for not addressing
 this issue ...

Well, this may not have to do with Flex Builder. Flex Builder is an
Eclipse plugin, and Eclipse has its own memory management issues. You
may want to try the following:

1. Use a different (newer) version of Eclipse.
2. Use a different JVM with Eclipse.
3. Configure the eclipse.ini file to allow more memory for the JVM. If
you're using the Flex Builder integrated install, it would be
FlexBuilder.ini.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!

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Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-14 Thread Muzak

I have
Flexbuilder but don't use it much because I have so many out of memory
errors with it, I haven't been able to get those under control - only
happens with Flexbuilder - not with any other multimedia application.


Sounds odd. 
I've used FB on an older P4 with only 1Gb ram without any problems.


As Dave said, you should probably look into tweaking the Eclipse JVM memory 
If you google Eclipse JVM or Eclipse ini I'm sure something useful will come up.


Here's an article on EclipseZone:
http://eclipsezone.com/eclipse/forums/t61618.html

As for Flex books, I never looked into any of them.
There's plenty of things to get you started on the Adobe site:
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/?tab:samples=1
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/quickstart.html

And I spend alot of time reading docs :)
http://livedocs.adobe.com/flex/3/html/help.html?content=Part2_DevApps_1.html
pdf of the above: http://livedocs.adobe.com/flex/3/devguide_flex3.pdf
http://livedocs.adobe.com/flex/3/langref/index.html

regards,
Muzak

- Original Message - 
From: Merrill, Jason jason.merr...@bankofamerica.com

To: Flash Coders List flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 8:06 PM
Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?



(On a side note, are there people out there who are successfully using
FlashDevelop with the FlexDesignView plugin for real development? Or

should

I lay down the cash for FlexBuilder?)


I'm using FlashDevelop + the free Flex SDK from Adobe to create Flex
apps.  Works great, no problems.  I didn't know about the FlexDesignView
plugin until you mentioned it!  My only problem with using the Flex SDK
this way is it doesn't include the charting components.  I have
Flexbuilder but don't use it much because I have so many out of memory
errors with it, I haven't been able to get those under control - only
happens with Flexbuilder - not with any other multimedia application.
And I have 2GB RAM.  I'm really disappointed in Adobe for not addressing
this issue - but sorry, back to your topic:

To fit your description, I like the Flex 3 Cookbook from O'Reilly press
- though I does not compare Flash and Flex if that is what you are
looking for.  It's just filled with tons of examples on how you would
solve specific problems with Flex: 


http://www.amazon.com/dp/0596529856/?tag=googhydr-20hvadid=3383658585r
ef=pd_sl_74cudeesgv_e

For training, I like the Adobe Flex training from the source book(s). I
have the one for Flex 2, but here is the latest:

http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Flex-3-Training-Source/dp/0321529189/ref=sr_
1_1?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1239732077sr=1-1

Some people like the Friends of Ed books too - I have some of those and
they are great, but they are for Actionscript 3 and design patterns, not
Flex.  The Friends of Ed books on Flex are probably pretty good too.


Jason Merrill 



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RE: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-14 Thread Merrill, Jason
 As Dave said, you should probably look into tweaking the Eclipse JVM
memory If you google Eclipse JVM or Eclipse ini I'm sure something
useful will come up.

Dave, Muzak - 

Hey thanks guys.  However, been there and done that tweaking of the ini
a few times to create more heap space. Initally, I discovered the
problem was the ini file was actually MISSING from my
Flexbuilder/Eclipse install (after my license was purchased, it was
pushed to my machine via Tivoli - I'm sure that's what caused the
problem - the person who packed it in Tivoli probably did it wrong), so
I had to manually create it with notepad and then tweak the settings as
per what people on the Flexcoders list advised and also tried things in
articles.  Thanks though.  The version of Eclipse is just what came out
of the box from Adobe, so it should work.  However, I may try
re-installing that too.  I wonder if there are any other files missing -
Flexbuilder works fine with otherwise.

I had not seen that article before in my research Muzak, thanks!  I'll
try that out.  This experience has made me really dislike the fact that
Adobe essentially built an Eclipse Plug-in instead of a single app, but
I also understand why they did it.  It makes it difficult to know what
to tweak, where to tweak it,etc.  And also trying to explain this to the
guy creating the Tivoli push was pretty hard - he didn't get the concept
too well, which is I'm sure what started the problem in the first place
when it wasn't packaged right.

 If you're using the Flex Builder integrated install

What does that mean?  How would I know?  Thanks.


Jason Merrill 

Bank of  America   Global Learning 
Shared Services Solutions Development 

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Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-14 Thread Muzak

If you're using the Flex Builder integrated install


What does that mean?  How would I know?


Flex Builder Standalone
vs
Eclipse + FB plugin.

If you have FB standalone, you typically see the FB startup logo when starting 
the app.
Eclipse + FB plugin shows the Eclipse logo at startup.

The standalone version has Eclipse integrated, so it installs Eclipse for you 
(kinda).
With this config you'll have 1 install directory (e.g. C:\Program Files\Adobe\Flex 
Builder 3)

The plugin version requires Eclipse to be already installed and during the FB 
plugin installation asks for the Eclipse location.
With this config you'll have 2 install locations: e.g. C:\Eclipse (or whereever you installed Eclipse) + C:\Program 
Files\Adobe\Flex Builder 3 plugin


regards,
Muzak

- Original Message - 
From: Merrill, Jason jason.merr...@bankofamerica.com

To: Flash Coders List flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 1:10 AM
Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?



As Dave said, you should probably look into tweaking the Eclipse JVM

memory If you google Eclipse JVM or Eclipse ini I'm sure something
useful will come up.

Dave, Muzak -

Hey thanks guys.  However, been there and done that tweaking of the ini
a few times to create more heap space. Initally, I discovered the
problem was the ini file was actually MISSING from my
Flexbuilder/Eclipse install (after my license was purchased, it was
pushed to my machine via Tivoli - I'm sure that's what caused the
problem - the person who packed it in Tivoli probably did it wrong), so
I had to manually create it with notepad and then tweak the settings as
per what people on the Flexcoders list advised and also tried things in
articles.  Thanks though.  The version of Eclipse is just what came out
of the box from Adobe, so it should work.  However, I may try
re-installing that too.  I wonder if there are any other files missing -
Flexbuilder works fine with otherwise.

I had not seen that article before in my research Muzak, thanks!  I'll
try that out.  This experience has made me really dislike the fact that
Adobe essentially built an Eclipse Plug-in instead of a single app, but
I also understand why they did it.  It makes it difficult to know what
to tweak, where to tweak it,etc.  And also trying to explain this to the
guy creating the Tivoli push was pretty hard - he didn't get the concept
too well, which is I'm sure what started the problem in the first place
when it wasn't packaged right.


If you're using the Flex Builder integrated install


What does that mean?  How would I know?  Thanks.


Jason Merrill


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Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-14 Thread Dave Watts
 This experience has made me really dislike the fact that Adobe essentially
 built an Eclipse Plug-in instead of a single app, but I also understand why
 they did it

No, this is actually a Good Thing(tm). Eclipse is a mature environment
with lots of people improving it regularly. And because of its plugin
architecture, you can use it for all sorts of things. For example, my
Eclipse install includes FlexBuilder, J2EE toolchain, CFEclipse,
Oxygen, Aptana, etc. And there are lots of third-party tools to help
manage Eclipse and plugin updates.

  If you're using the Flex Builder integrated install

 What does that mean?  How would I know?  Thanks.

You can either install Flex Builder with Eclipse, or into an existing
Eclipse install. The version of Eclipse that comes with Flex Builder
is not the latest version - if I recall correctly, it's 3.2.

To find out which you have, the integrated Flex Builder/Eclipse is
installed in c:\program files\adobe, while if you installed Eclipse
separately, it'd be wherever you put it - typically, c:\eclipse. Also,
you get different splash screens.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
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Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-14 Thread Muzak

No, this is actually a Good Thing(tm). Eclipse is a mature environment
with lots of people improving it regularly. And because of its plugin
architecture, you can use it for all sorts of things.


Not to mention a big step forward from Flex 1/1.5 which was a messed up version 
of Dreamweaver.

I have 2 installs:
- FlexBuilder + Subclipse (with integrated Eclipse updated to 3.3)
- Eclipse (Ganymede 3.4 http://www.eclipse.org/ganymede/) + FDT + CFEclipse + 
EclipseNSIS + Subclipse (and a few others)

Why? 
Well Flex Builder standalone can be updated (the Eclipse part) but not to the latest version (3.4). 
Updating Eclipse to 3.3 is fine though. 


The latest CFEclipse plugin requires Eclipse 3.4 so I installed Eclipse 
separatly for that :)

regards,
Muzak

- Original Message - 
From: Dave Watts dwa...@figleaf.com

To: Flash Coders List flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 2:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?



This experience has made me really dislike the fact that Adobe essentially
built an Eclipse Plug-in instead of a single app, but I also understand why
they did it


No, this is actually a Good Thing(tm). Eclipse is a mature environment
with lots of people improving it regularly. And because of its plugin
architecture, you can use it for all sorts of things. For example, my
Eclipse install includes FlexBuilder, J2EE toolchain, CFEclipse,
Oxygen, Aptana, etc. And there are lots of third-party tools to help
manage Eclipse and plugin updates.


 If you're using the Flex Builder integrated install

What does that mean? How would I know? Thanks.


You can either install Flex Builder with Eclipse, or into an existing
Eclipse install. The version of Eclipse that comes with Flex Builder
is not the latest version - if I recall correctly, it's 3.2.

To find out which you have, the integrated Flex Builder/Eclipse is
installed in c:\program files\adobe, while if you installed Eclipse
separately, it'd be wherever you put it - typically, c:\eclipse. Also,
you get different splash screens.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!

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RE: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-14 Thread Merrill, Jason
I have the stand alone version then, not the plug-in.  

 No, this is actually a Good Thing(tm). Eclipse is a mature environment
with lots of people improving it regularly. And because of its plugin
architecture, you can use it for all sorts of things.

I understand what you mean, but I am using the stand alone.  If Flexbuilder had 
been its own 100% Adobe-made application (meaning not coupled to Eclipse), 
having the stand alone version of Flexbuilder, I could still download and run 
Eclipse separately and use it for other things.  And Adobe loses a lot of 
control over the UI by having it be integrated or as a plug-in for Eclipse - or 
at least, they have not modified it to look like other Adobe apps - it looks 
totally separate. Also, due to the nature of working for a huge company with 
lots of IT security measures, we have to go through lengthy architecture 
reviews of software before it gets installed.  Since Eclipse is basically an 
open-sourced application, and is always changing, it makes it much harder to 
get through our approval process.  If Adobe had made their own standalone app, 
life would have been much easier, I wouldn't have spent time trying to tweak 
Flexbuilder memory settings or Eclipse memory settings, it would !
 have been one single app to worry about fixing.  I still don't quite get how 
they are integrated.

Overall, you're probably right though as far as the benefits outweighing 
drawbacks, just from my experience with this memory error and with trying to 
get it packaged for Tivoli, its been very confusing to understand and explain 
how the two work together for a single application experience.  I get along 
just fine now with FlashDevelop + Flex SDK minus the fact the SDK doesn't 
include charting unfortunately.


Jason Merrill 

Bank of  America   Global Learning 
Shared Services Solutions Development 

Monthly meetings on the Adobe Flash platform for rich media experiences - join 
the Bank of America Flash Platform Community 





-Original Message-
From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com 
[mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Dave Watts
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 8:48 PM
To: Flash Coders List
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

 This experience has made me really dislike the fact that Adobe essentially
 built an Eclipse Plug-in instead of a single app, but I also understand why
 they did it

No, this is actually a Good Thing(tm). Eclipse is a mature environment
with lots of people improving it regularly. And because of its plugin
architecture, you can use it for all sorts of things. For example, my
Eclipse install includes FlexBuilder, J2EE toolchain, CFEclipse,
Oxygen, Aptana, etc. And there are lots of third-party tools to help
manage Eclipse and plugin updates.

  If you're using the Flex Builder integrated install

 What does that mean?  How would I know?  Thanks.

You can either install Flex Builder with Eclipse, or into an existing
Eclipse install. The version of Eclipse that comes with Flex Builder
is not the latest version - if I recall correctly, it's 3.2.

To find out which you have, the integrated Flex Builder/Eclipse is
installed in c:\program files\adobe, while if you installed Eclipse
separately, it'd be wherever you put it - typically, c:\eclipse. Also,
you get different splash screens.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
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Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-14 Thread Steven Sacks

  For training, I like the Adobe Flex training from the source book(s).

I personally did not like this book at all.

Here's how the book goes:


Build this like this.

Build that like that.

Now, you know how you built this and that?  That's the wrong way to build it, so 
we're going to refactor everything and build it this new way.


Ok now build on what we just did.

Build again.

Yeah, you know what we just spent a few chapters doing?  That's the incorrect 
way to build stuff, so we're going to completely redo what we've done so far.



This pattern repeats itself to the end of the book.  It's a terrible way to 
teach something.  We'll teach you the wrong way, then we'll tell you it's the 
wrong way after you already learned the lesson.  Do they know nothing about the 
learning process?  Apparently so.

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RE: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-14 Thread Merrill, Jason
OK, if that's true, (I didn't notice), but I still liked it when I was a
beginner - it walked me through holding my hand essentially so I got
more and more comfortable - it turned the lightbulb on for me, so to
speak so I could move off on my own. If it taught me some bad ways to do
things in the beginning, it was only to get the basic concept across,
that's unfortunate of course, but at least, as you say, they show you
why its not good and show you how you're gonna fix it, therefore you get
a good understanding from both perspectives.  I wouldn't

We'll teach you the wrong way, then we'll tell you it's the 
wrong way after you already learned the lesson.  Do they know nothing
about the 
learning process?  

It may sound odd, but I disagree - some learning styles, like apparently
yours would be offended by that and it wouldn't help - but for me, I
like it because its fun learning a basic principle, and then learning,
Oh there is a  better way, let's do that - I don't think you should
necessarily throw everyone in the lake to teach them to swim - even
though some people will learn better that way, others will drown.  This
book obviously wasn't meant for your learning style, but it was for me. 

Jason Merrill 

Bank of  America   Global Learning 
Shared Services Solutions Development 

Monthly meetings on the Adobe Flash platform for rich media experiences
- join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community 





-Original Message-
From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com
[mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Steven
Sacks
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 9:47 PM
To: Flash Coders List
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?


   For training, I like the Adobe Flex training from the source
book(s).

I personally did not like this book at all.

Here's how the book goes:


Build this like this.

Build that like that.

Now, you know how you built this and that?  That's the wrong way to
build it, so 
we're going to refactor everything and build it this new way.

Ok now build on what we just did.

Build again.

Yeah, you know what we just spent a few chapters doing?  That's the
incorrect 
way to build stuff, so we're going to completely redo what we've done so
far.


This pattern repeats itself to the end of the book.  It's a terrible way
to 
teach something.  We'll teach you the wrong way, then we'll tell you
it's the 
wrong way after you already learned the lesson.  Do they know nothing
about the 
learning process?  Apparently so.
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Re: [Flashcoders] Favorite Flex book?

2009-04-14 Thread Steven Sacks

This book obviously wasn't meant for your learning style, but it was for me.


Different strokes for different folks!  :)
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