Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-21 Thread allandt bik-elliott (thefieldcomic.com)
adobe has been saying that the next version of flash will be designer-driven so it's maybe something that is being looked at at the moment On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 6:22 PM, daniele tassone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Double click on the component/botton and auto-creation of AS3 code is other

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-21 Thread Brian Mays
This has been the pendulum usually swings. Good to hear it. Brian Mays On 7/21/08 6:02 AM, allandt bik-elliott (thefieldcomic.com) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: adobe has been saying that the next version of flash will be designer-driven so it's maybe something that is being looked at at the

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-18 Thread allandt bik-elliott (thefieldcomic.com)
The problem with splitting Flash up into the Designer App and the Coder App (Talking Flash here, not Flex which i've never used) is that those of us that have to deal with Flash as a scaling entity (I'm a freelance developer so this week it's banners, next week it's site development and OOP) will

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-18 Thread Jordan L. Chilcott
I don't know if I could agree with the statement below. I have no real use for Flex as I can get everything I need from Flash, and can take it down as granular as I want. Flash's failure, IMHO, is providing a proper coding IDE for just plain ol' AS3, sans Flex. Thank goodness for things like

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-18 Thread Jordan L. Chilcott
I'm in the same boat here (been working with Flash since v4 came out, but have been coding for 25 years). Most of the stuff that has been iterated in this thread somewhat echo my opinions. I particularly agree with the one statement down below: AS3 is easier to use. The stigma is that AS2

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-18 Thread Abe Pazos
I think most of the people who would agree with these charges are not in this mailing list. Are there more AS3 coders out there? Or more designers who sometimes use a line or two of ActionScript with gotoAndPlays, loadMovies, on release/rollover/rollout? I wonder how would this discussion look

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-18 Thread Juan Pablo Califano
You're probably right. Nevertheless, I think the spirit of the article has been misunderstood. As I read it, it pointed out the need to have a higher-level visual-style user interface to make simple things easier for non programmers. Visual tools that can intuitively generate the AS 3 code for

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-18 Thread allandt bik-elliott (thefieldcomic.com)
i think someone has touched on it before, but if there is to be code applicable to movieclips / buttons on stage then they should work similarly to the way motion tweens can be copied as actionscript - allow the bad behaviour for numpties and quick jobs, but then compensate to move the code to

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-18 Thread daniele tassone
Double click on the component/botton and auto-creation of AS3 code is other solution in order to keep good code and good humor for people that don't want to write code; 3 weeks ago i have explain at creative team that will work with me, how we can work togheter with as3; not happy to see that we

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-17 Thread elibol
The only one that makes any sense is #2, and that is being addressed with Loader.unloadAndStop(), except for the most part I'm kind of wary about having the Loader class tear my loaded swfs a new one. I kind of agree with Sacks when he more subtly articulates that this is for noobs. I was

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-17 Thread Ashim D'Silva
I like the way Steven split this into child's toy and adult's toy because at heart: yes, Flash is indeed a toy. But like in all cases of everything, everywhere, things do need to grow. This big jump has been at the expense of the easy-of-use aspect of Flash, just as the introduction of Filters and

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-17 Thread Beatrix Kr├╝mmer-Frau
Juan Pablo Califano schrieb: I agree with the article and with what Steve has pointed out already. Even from an historical point of view, I think that what made the flash platform ubiquitous was that many people started to create cool stuff for it. Hi, at this point i just want to remember

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-17 Thread daniele tassone
I agree with this point. I use with no particular difficult c#, sql, asp.net, java, as3, as2, Flex and i think that as3 is better than as2/as1 because my skill give me the opportunity to work with a language that can be great (that is at first version ... so with a little bit of problem). But

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-17 Thread Meinte van't Kruis
I don't see why people make such a distinction between designer and programmer, I think, espessially in the flash environment, this distinction is very vague and you'll see alot of designers doing programmer work and vice versa. That said I think that anyone who was used to as2 and the way things

RE: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-17 Thread Brian Mays
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Meinte van't Kruis Sent: Thu 7/17/2008 3:59 AM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0 I don't see why people make such a distinction between designer and programmer, I think

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-17 Thread Paul Andrews
- Original Message - From: Steven Sacks [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Flash Coders List flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0 Everyone forgets their roots. Nobody remembers what it was like

RE: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-17 Thread Romuald Quantin
] On Behalf Of Paul Andrews Sent: 17 July 2008 15:11 To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0 - Original Message - From: Steven Sacks [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Flash Coders List flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 10:53 PM

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-17 Thread Matt S.
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:59 AM, Meinte van't Kruis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't see why people make such a distinction between designer and programmer, I think, espessially in the flash environment, this distinction is very vague and you'll see alot of designers doing programmer work and

RE: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-17 Thread Merrill, Jason
and technologies? Check out our internal GTO Innovative Learning Blog subscribe. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt S. Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 11:36 AM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-17 Thread Matt S.
. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt S. Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 11:36 AM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0 On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:59 AM, Meinte van't Kruis [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-17 Thread Zeh Fernando
Matt S. wrote: But I think part of the problem is the increasingly schizophrenic nature of Flash's identity as an application. This is the money quote of this whole discussion, IMO. AS3 is fine as a language. The charges are indicative of a bigger problem, however. Zeh

RE: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-17 Thread Merrill, Jason
Maybe THREE Apps then ;) Flash CS3, FlexBuilder, and some sort of Animation/Timeline focused app, called, lets say, FutureSplash. ;) There you go! Jason Merrill Bank of America Enterprise Technology Global Risk LLD Instructional Technology Media Join the Bank of America Flash Platform

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-17 Thread Brian Mays
On 7/17/08 10:35 AM, Matt S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But I think part of the problem is the increasingly schizophrenic nature of Flash's identity as an application. I like that. That's my new mantra :-) Brian Mays ___ Flashcoders mailing list

RE: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-17 Thread Kerry Thompson
Matt S. wrote: it seems like Flash may need to become two apps in the long run. Or rather, EXPLICITLY become two apps, since at this point it already basically is. It IS two apps. Flash and Flex. More and more of us hard-core coder types are using Flex for heavy-duty development. I often

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-17 Thread Matt S.
I know, Jason called me on that :) But I guess my real point was that there needs to be another version of Flash which is explicitly targeted at the non-coder, at the people who want to timeline and tween and drag-drop their way to an animated/interactive product. Flash for dummies as it were.

RE: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-17 Thread Kerry Thompson
Matt S. wrote: I know, Jason called me on that :) Yeah, I saw that. He beat me to the punch. (Jason, you _will_ pay! ;-) But I guess my real point was that there needs to be another version of Flash which is explicitly targeted at the non-coder, at the people who want to timeline and

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-17 Thread Matt S.
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Kerry Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Flash CS3 has all the features of Flash 8--in fact, Flash 6. You can still write AS2 code, and you can still do all the tweening and timeline animation you want. I work with artists regularly who don't do a lick of coding,

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-17 Thread Meinte van't Kruis
Yeah I know, but I'm suggesting a version which is explicitly targetted at that user. So you mean flash cs3, but without the actionscript ;) :P But I think part of the problem is the increasingly schizophrenic nature of Flash's identity as an application. Well, this has maybe always been

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-17 Thread Matt S.
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Meinte van't Kruis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah I know, but I'm suggesting a version which is explicitly targetted at that user. So you mean flash cs3, but without the actionscript ;) :P Exactly! .m ___

RE: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-17 Thread Jason Van Pelt
The negative side to creating a flash without the as3 application is that many of us grew up with Flash and used it as a way to learn to be developers. I think Colin's point isn't to provide a basic app to basic users, necessarily, but to make the point of entry easy for new users -- as it was

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-17 Thread Matt S.
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 5:38 PM, Jason Van Pelt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The negative side to creating a flash without the as3 application is that many of us grew up with Flash and used it as a way to learn to be developers. I think Colin's point isn't to provide a basic app to basic users,

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-16 Thread Brian Mays
Awesome. Thanks. This reinforces some points I've been making to so colleagues. Brian Mays On 7/15/08 3:06 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi all, i just published an article called Charges Against ActionScript 3.0 covering the things people don't like about ActionScript 3.0.

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-16 Thread Jordan L. Chilcott
I'm on the other side of this... I hardly agree with any of these points. jord Brian Mays wrote: Awesome. Thanks. This reinforces some points I've been making to so colleagues. Brian Mays On 7/15/08 3:06 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi all, i just published an article

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-16 Thread Matt S.
Even the garbage collection and unload movie issues? .m On 7/16/08, Jordan L. Chilcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm on the other side of this... I hardly agree with any of these points. jord Brian Mays wrote: Awesome. Thanks. This reinforces some points I've been making to so colleagues.

RE: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-16 Thread Merrill, Jason
I'm on the other side of this... I hardly agree with any of these points. Are you serious? Did you read the article? Jason Merrill Bank of America Enterprise Technology Global Risk LLD Instructional Technology Media Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Developer Community Are you a

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-16 Thread Jordan L. Chilcott
Let me rephrase this: I hardly agree with MOST of the issues. jord Matt S. wrote: Even the garbage collection and unload movie issues? .m ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-16 Thread Jordan L. Chilcott
Of course I did... I don't deny his points. I just don't agree with them all. We're talking about opinions here. I'm no more incorrect as the next guy, including Colin. jord Merrill, Jason wrote: I'm on the other side of this... I hardly agree with any of these points. Are you

RE: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-16 Thread Merrill, Jason
] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jordan L. Chilcott Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 2:28 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0 jord Matt S. wrote: Even the garbage collection and unload movie issues? .m

RE: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-16 Thread Kerry Thompson
Jord wrote: Let me rephrase this: I hardly agree with MOST of the issues. Fair enough. It would be a valuable contribution to the discussion if you told us which issues you have, ahem issues with, and why. I personally am not in a position to argue with Colin Moock, but I do enjoy a good

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-16 Thread Jordan L. Chilcott
Let's be fair: I'm not looking to argue. I have a wife for that. :) I intend to state my issues, but it may have to wait a couple of days because I'm sure most, if not all, of you are in a working situation and faced with some slimy brown stuff rolling downhill towards you. I was going to

RE: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-16 Thread Patrick Matte | BLITZ
-551-0200 x214 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jordan L. Chilcott Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 12:03 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0 Let's be fair: I'm not looking to argue. I have

RE: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-16 Thread Merrill, Jason
. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Matte | BLITZ Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 4:17 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0 I've always admired Colin Moock, but after reading those 9

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-16 Thread Steven Sacks
Everyone forgets their roots. Nobody remembers what it was like when they were first learning Flash and learning the basics of programming. Colin Moock forgot his roots when six months ago he wrote an article about how easy AS3 was to learn and how n00bs should be learning it right out the

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-16 Thread Steve Mathews
The more I read here, the more I am on the fence. On the one hand, I use FlexBuilder every day and love AS3 as a language. But at the same time I think Steven has a good point here. In the end I actually think Colin is 'mostly' correct with his post. What we need is for the tools to support

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-16 Thread Ashim D'Silva
I love flash and have been using it since 5. And although at the time, it was almost possible to drag and drop what you needed to get something going, we know there were a host of disadvantages that came with everything being so dynamic and code being everywhere. So as Flash has gotten stricter,

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-16 Thread Steven Sacks
Ashim D'Silva wrote: Flash is not a toy. You can't pick it up, with no prior knowledge, and expect to have a app 2 hours later. --- This is where we part ways. Flash used to be a toy, and, up until Flash 8, it still could be. Now, with AS3, Flash has ceased to be a child's toy and is now

RE: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-16 Thread Barry Hannah
: Thursday, 17 July 2008 12:18 p.m. To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0 Ashim D'Silva wrote: Flash is not a toy. You can't pick it up, with no prior knowledge, and expect to have a app 2 hours later. --- This is where we part ways. Flash used

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-16 Thread Juan Pablo Califano
] On Behalf Of Steven Sacks Sent: Thursday, 17 July 2008 12:18 p.m. To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0 Ashim D'Silva wrote: Flash is not a toy. You can't pick it up, with no prior knowledge, and expect to have a app 2 hours later

RE: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-16 Thread Kerry Thompson
Steven Sacks wrote: Flash used to be a toy, and, up until Flash 8, it still could beThe reason you see so much BAD Flash is because it was SO EASY to use for even non programmers. Steven has a point (even though I cut most of his post). Remember the days when Flash's nickname was

Re: [Flashcoders] The Charges Against ActionScript 3.0

2008-07-15 Thread Moshen Chan
Great article Colin, thanks for your work! On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 1:06 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi all, i just published an article called Charges Against ActionScript 3.0 covering the things people don't like about ActionScript 3.0. it's posted on O'Reilly's