Re: [Flashcoders] best way to save as pdf from flash?
Hi Paul, No one else uses Xara, and it lacks a lot of photo editing and brush customization features; however, it does look neat for vectors. The situation is, the flash IDE doesn't work the way I would like, so I have decided to make my own little application that outputs to pdf. I might also make an extension, as that would be useful to more people than just me; yet, I would need to put aside a little time to mess around. Thanks, Anthony Paul Andrews wrote: - Original Message - From: "Taka Kojima" To: "Flash Coders List" Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] best way to save as pdf from flash? I believe he is trying to export as a PDF from FlashPlayer, not from Flash itself You could be right, but Antony has been going on about the IDE and illustrator, so for such a simple subject, I'm a bit confused what exactly he's up to.. On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Paul Andrews wrote: If you're using Flash as some high end illustration program, do yourself a favour and use Xara Xtreme (http://www.xara.com/uk/products/xtreme/) - it has native PDF export and is far more capable than flash for illustration.. Paul - Original Message - From: "Anthony Pace" To: "Flash Coders List" Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] best way to save as pdf from flash? I was referring to the ide; yet, even the flashplayer has the the same printing bugs -screenshots are out of the question; as I usually am printing very large files -I have already tried printing directly to a PDF print server, from the flash IDE; however, the effects I place on MCs don't seem to stay. -I would use illustrator; yet, it just doesn't have a lot of flash's capabilities, and vise versa when doing extrusions for illustration or using livepaint. I know I can export the paths to illustrator; yet, the effects don't transfer well, if at all, and I am not a fan of the poor quality of some of the illustrator effects. -I know that I could convert the movie clip to a bitmap in as3 and then either convert it to a pdf or png/jpg using a decent library, or printing it as a converted bitmap to a pdf server(as long as the pixel count is less than 16,775,168, a problem when converting to posters that need a bare minimum quality of 300 dpi at 27" x 41" or 99,630,000 pixels), and it will be the direction I am going in; however, I really shouldn't have to program this myself, as it should already be a capability of the ide, along with better integration with photoshop and illustrator and much much better file conversion. Printing from the flash IDE or a much better form of integration with illustrator and photoshop would be best. Glen Pike wrote: Hi, I am assuming you are talking about the IDE? Are you doing screenshots for the client? It might not be helpful, but I just do Test Movie then Alt+Print Screen or Ctrl+Print Screen and paste into my graphics program... Alternatively look at CutePDF or one of the "free" PDF printers that might help. Printing from SWF's with the FP Printer - you can draw into a bitmap first, then print the MC with that in - this means all your filters & fonts should have been rasterised. HTH - might have misunderstood your request... Glen Anthony Pace wrote: I would print directly to pdf; yet, I lose the effects I have placed on MCs; as well, saving it to illustrator directly is a problem, because flash will screw up the file header when a custom font that I use is required. Thus, because flash doesn't have a decent printer driver, and its file conversion methods suck, my current process is: I create an swf of the dimensions I want in inches (e.g. 8.5 x 11) I convert to png and choose a DPI of something like 300 to indicate high resolution, and I select 24 bit, with no alpha channel, in order to avoid the ARGB conversion that is screwed for flash. I open that png and I open something like photoshop/illustrator that allows you to convert to a pdf. Is there a better way? ___ Flashcoders mailing list [email protected] http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list [email protected] http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list [email protected] http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list [email protected] http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list [email protected] http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/fl
Re: [Flashcoders] best way to save as pdf from flash?
- Original Message - From: "Anthony Pace" To: "Flash Coders List" Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] best way to save as pdf from flash? Hi Paul, No one else uses Xara, and it lacks a lot of photo editing and brush customization features; however, it does look neat for vectors. Xara is Vector programme with a bit of photoediting. Your comment is a bit like criticising Flash for not being as good as photoshop for playing with pixels. Xara is way ahead of flash in terms of vector illustration. As for nobody else using Xara, well the Xara community know it's a well kept secret. They keep churning out great artwork and use it in preference to illustrator. Anyway.. The situation is, the flash IDE doesn't work the way I would like, so I have decided to make my own little application that outputs to pdf. I think you're trying to say that the IDE should export to PDF. Is that right? At first I thought you were talking about flash at runtime, not the IDE. I use flash for motion work and really a PDF export would be pointless since most of my motion work doesn't use the timeline. Anyway, I've finally twigged what you're up to. Have fun. Paul I might also make an extension, as that would be useful to more people than just me; yet, I would need to put aside a little time to mess around. Thanks, Anthony Paul Andrews wrote: - Original Message - From: "Taka Kojima" To: "Flash Coders List" Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] best way to save as pdf from flash? I believe he is trying to export as a PDF from FlashPlayer, not from Flash itself You could be right, but Antony has been going on about the IDE and illustrator, so for such a simple subject, I'm a bit confused what exactly he's up to.. On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Paul Andrews wrote: If you're using Flash as some high end illustration program, do yourself a favour and use Xara Xtreme (http://www.xara.com/uk/products/xtreme/) - it has native PDF export and is far more capable than flash for illustration.. Paul - Original Message - From: "Anthony Pace" To: "Flash Coders List" Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] best way to save as pdf from flash? I was referring to the ide; yet, even the flashplayer has the the same printing bugs -screenshots are out of the question; as I usually am printing very large files -I have already tried printing directly to a PDF print server, from the flash IDE; however, the effects I place on MCs don't seem to stay. -I would use illustrator; yet, it just doesn't have a lot of flash's capabilities, and vise versa when doing extrusions for illustration or using livepaint. I know I can export the paths to illustrator; yet, the effects don't transfer well, if at all, and I am not a fan of the poor quality of some of the illustrator effects. -I know that I could convert the movie clip to a bitmap in as3 and then either convert it to a pdf or png/jpg using a decent library, or printing it as a converted bitmap to a pdf server(as long as the pixel count is less than 16,775,168, a problem when converting to posters that need a bare minimum quality of 300 dpi at 27" x 41" or 99,630,000 pixels), and it will be the direction I am going in; however, I really shouldn't have to program this myself, as it should already be a capability of the ide, along with better integration with photoshop and illustrator and much much better file conversion. Printing from the flash IDE or a much better form of integration with illustrator and photoshop would be best. Glen Pike wrote: Hi, I am assuming you are talking about the IDE? Are you doing screenshots for the client? It might not be helpful, but I just do Test Movie then Alt+Print Screen or Ctrl+Print Screen and paste into my graphics program... Alternatively look at CutePDF or one of the "free" PDF printers that might help. Printing from SWF's with the FP Printer - you can draw into a bitmap first, then print the MC with that in - this means all your filters & fonts should have been rasterised. HTH - might have misunderstood your request... Glen Anthony Pace wrote: I would print directly to pdf; yet, I lose the effects I have placed on MCs; as well, saving it to illustrator directly is a problem, because flash will screw up the file header when a custom font that I use is required. Thus, because flash doesn't have a decent printer driver, and its file conversion methods suck, my current process is: I create an swf of the dimensions I want in inches (e.g. 8.5 x 11) I convert to png and choose a DPI of something like 300 to indicate high resolution, and I select 24 bit, with no alpha channel, in order to avoid the AR
Re: [Flashcoders] best way to save as pdf from flash?
- Original Message - From: "Taka Kojima" To: "Flash Coders List" Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] best way to save as pdf from flash? I believe he is trying to export as a PDF from FlashPlayer, not from Flash itself You could be right, but Antony has been going on about the IDE and illustrator, so for such a simple subject, I'm a bit confused what exactly he's up to.. On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Paul Andrews wrote: If you're using Flash as some high end illustration program, do yourself a favour and use Xara Xtreme (http://www.xara.com/uk/products/xtreme/) - it has native PDF export and is far more capable than flash for illustration.. Paul - Original Message - From: "Anthony Pace" To: "Flash Coders List" Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] best way to save as pdf from flash? I was referring to the ide; yet, even the flashplayer has the the same printing bugs -screenshots are out of the question; as I usually am printing very large files -I have already tried printing directly to a PDF print server, from the flash IDE; however, the effects I place on MCs don't seem to stay. -I would use illustrator; yet, it just doesn't have a lot of flash's capabilities, and vise versa when doing extrusions for illustration or using livepaint. I know I can export the paths to illustrator; yet, the effects don't transfer well, if at all, and I am not a fan of the poor quality of some of the illustrator effects. -I know that I could convert the movie clip to a bitmap in as3 and then either convert it to a pdf or png/jpg using a decent library, or printing it as a converted bitmap to a pdf server(as long as the pixel count is less than 16,775,168, a problem when converting to posters that need a bare minimum quality of 300 dpi at 27" x 41" or 99,630,000 pixels), and it will be the direction I am going in; however, I really shouldn't have to program this myself, as it should already be a capability of the ide, along with better integration with photoshop and illustrator and much much better file conversion. Printing from the flash IDE or a much better form of integration with illustrator and photoshop would be best. Glen Pike wrote: Hi, I am assuming you are talking about the IDE? Are you doing screenshots for the client? It might not be helpful, but I just do Test Movie then Alt+Print Screen or Ctrl+Print Screen and paste into my graphics program... Alternatively look at CutePDF or one of the "free" PDF printers that might help. Printing from SWF's with the FP Printer - you can draw into a bitmap first, then print the MC with that in - this means all your filters & fonts should have been rasterised. HTH - might have misunderstood your request... Glen Anthony Pace wrote: I would print directly to pdf; yet, I lose the effects I have placed on MCs; as well, saving it to illustrator directly is a problem, because flash will screw up the file header when a custom font that I use is required. Thus, because flash doesn't have a decent printer driver, and its file conversion methods suck, my current process is: I create an swf of the dimensions I want in inches (e.g. 8.5 x 11) I convert to png and choose a DPI of something like 300 to indicate high resolution, and I select 24 bit, with no alpha channel, in order to avoid the ARGB conversion that is screwed for flash. I open that png and I open something like photoshop/illustrator that allows you to convert to a pdf. Is there a better way? ___ Flashcoders mailing list [email protected] http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list [email protected] http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list [email protected] http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list [email protected] http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list [email protected] http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list [email protected] http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] best way to save as pdf from flash?
I believe he is trying to export as a PDF from FlashPlayer, not from Flash itself On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Paul Andrews wrote: > If you're using Flash as some high end illustration program, do yourself a > favour and use Xara Xtreme (http://www.xara.com/uk/products/xtreme/) - it > has native PDF export and is far more > capable than flash for illustration.. > > Paul > - Original Message - From: "Anthony Pace" > To: "Flash Coders List" > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 6:07 PM > Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] best way to save as pdf from flash? > > >> I was referring to the ide; yet, even the flashplayer has the the same >> printing bugs >> >> -screenshots are out of the question; as I usually am printing very large >> files >> -I have already tried printing directly to a PDF print server, from the >> flash IDE; however, the effects I place on MCs don't seem to stay. >> -I would use illustrator; yet, it just doesn't have a lot of flash's >> capabilities, and vise versa when doing extrusions for illustration or >> using livepaint. I know I can export the paths to illustrator; yet, the >> effects don't transfer well, if at all, and I am not a fan of the poor >> quality of some of the illustrator effects. >> -I know that I could convert the movie clip to a bitmap in as3 and then >> either convert it to a pdf or png/jpg using a decent library, or printing >> it as a converted bitmap to a pdf server(as long as the pixel count is >> less than 16,775,168, a problem when converting to posters that need a >> bare minimum quality of 300 dpi at 27" x 41" or 99,630,000 pixels), and it >> will be the direction I am going in; however, I really shouldn't have to >> program this myself, as it should already be a capability of the ide, >> along with better integration with photoshop and illustrator and much much >> better file conversion. >> >> Printing from the flash IDE or a much better form of integration with >> illustrator and photoshop would be best. >> >> >> Glen Pike wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I am assuming you are talking about the IDE? >>> >>> Are you doing screenshots for the client? >>> It might not be helpful, but I just do Test Movie then Alt+Print >>> Screen or Ctrl+Print Screen and paste into my graphics program... >>> >>> Alternatively look at CutePDF or one of the "free" PDF printers that >>> might help. >>> >>> Printing from SWF's with the FP Printer - you can draw into a bitmap >>> first, then print the MC with that in - this means all your filters & >>> fonts should have been rasterised. >>> >>> HTH - might have misunderstood your request... >>> >>> Glen >>> >>> Anthony Pace wrote: >>>> >>>> I would print directly to pdf; yet, I lose the effects I have placed on >>>> MCs; as well, saving it to illustrator directly is a problem, because >>>> flash will screw up the file header when a custom font that I use is >>>> required. >>>> >>>> Thus, because flash doesn't have a decent printer driver, and its file >>>> conversion methods suck, my current process is: >>>> >>>> I create an swf of the dimensions I want in inches (e.g. 8.5 x 11) >>>> I convert to png and choose a DPI of something like 300 to indicate high >>>> resolution, and I select 24 bit, with no alpha channel, in order to >>>> avoid the ARGB conversion that is screwed for flash. >>>> I open that png and I open something like photoshop/illustrator that >>>> allows you to convert to a pdf. >>>> >>>> Is there a better way? >>>> ___ >>>> Flashcoders mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders >>>> >>>> >>> >>> ___ >>> Flashcoders mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders >>> >> ___ >> Flashcoders mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders > > ___ > Flashcoders mailing list > [email protected] > http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders > ___ Flashcoders mailing list [email protected] http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] best way to save as pdf from flash?
If you're using Flash as some high end illustration program, do yourself a favour and use Xara Xtreme (http://www.xara.com/uk/products/xtreme/) - it has native PDF export and is far more capable than flash for illustration.. Paul - Original Message - From: "Anthony Pace" To: "Flash Coders List" Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] best way to save as pdf from flash? I was referring to the ide; yet, even the flashplayer has the the same printing bugs -screenshots are out of the question; as I usually am printing very large files -I have already tried printing directly to a PDF print server, from the flash IDE; however, the effects I place on MCs don't seem to stay. -I would use illustrator; yet, it just doesn't have a lot of flash's capabilities, and vise versa when doing extrusions for illustration or using livepaint. I know I can export the paths to illustrator; yet, the effects don't transfer well, if at all, and I am not a fan of the poor quality of some of the illustrator effects. -I know that I could convert the movie clip to a bitmap in as3 and then either convert it to a pdf or png/jpg using a decent library, or printing it as a converted bitmap to a pdf server(as long as the pixel count is less than 16,775,168, a problem when converting to posters that need a bare minimum quality of 300 dpi at 27" x 41" or 99,630,000 pixels), and it will be the direction I am going in; however, I really shouldn't have to program this myself, as it should already be a capability of the ide, along with better integration with photoshop and illustrator and much much better file conversion. Printing from the flash IDE or a much better form of integration with illustrator and photoshop would be best. Glen Pike wrote: Hi, I am assuming you are talking about the IDE? Are you doing screenshots for the client? It might not be helpful, but I just do Test Movie then Alt+Print Screen or Ctrl+Print Screen and paste into my graphics program... Alternatively look at CutePDF or one of the "free" PDF printers that might help. Printing from SWF's with the FP Printer - you can draw into a bitmap first, then print the MC with that in - this means all your filters & fonts should have been rasterised. HTH - might have misunderstood your request... Glen Anthony Pace wrote: I would print directly to pdf; yet, I lose the effects I have placed on MCs; as well, saving it to illustrator directly is a problem, because flash will screw up the file header when a custom font that I use is required. Thus, because flash doesn't have a decent printer driver, and its file conversion methods suck, my current process is: I create an swf of the dimensions I want in inches (e.g. 8.5 x 11) I convert to png and choose a DPI of something like 300 to indicate high resolution, and I select 24 bit, with no alpha channel, in order to avoid the ARGB conversion that is screwed for flash. I open that png and I open something like photoshop/illustrator that allows you to convert to a pdf. Is there a better way? ___ Flashcoders mailing list [email protected] http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list [email protected] http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list [email protected] http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list [email protected] http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] best way to save as pdf from flash?
I was referring to the ide; yet, even the flashplayer has the the same printing bugs -screenshots are out of the question; as I usually am printing very large files -I have already tried printing directly to a PDF print server, from the flash IDE; however, the effects I place on MCs don't seem to stay. -I would use illustrator; yet, it just doesn't have a lot of flash's capabilities, and vise versa when doing extrusions for illustration or using livepaint. I know I can export the paths to illustrator; yet, the effects don't transfer well, if at all, and I am not a fan of the poor quality of some of the illustrator effects. -I know that I could convert the movie clip to a bitmap in as3 and then either convert it to a pdf or png/jpg using a decent library, or printing it as a converted bitmap to a pdf server(as long as the pixel count is less than 16,775,168, a problem when converting to posters that need a bare minimum quality of 300 dpi at 27" x 41" or 99,630,000 pixels), and it will be the direction I am going in; however, I really shouldn't have to program this myself, as it should already be a capability of the ide, along with better integration with photoshop and illustrator and much much better file conversion. Printing from the flash IDE or a much better form of integration with illustrator and photoshop would be best. Glen Pike wrote: Hi, I am assuming you are talking about the IDE? Are you doing screenshots for the client? It might not be helpful, but I just do Test Movie then Alt+Print Screen or Ctrl+Print Screen and paste into my graphics program... Alternatively look at CutePDF or one of the "free" PDF printers that might help. Printing from SWF's with the FP Printer - you can draw into a bitmap first, then print the MC with that in - this means all your filters & fonts should have been rasterised. HTH - might have misunderstood your request... Glen Anthony Pace wrote: I would print directly to pdf; yet, I lose the effects I have placed on MCs; as well, saving it to illustrator directly is a problem, because flash will screw up the file header when a custom font that I use is required. Thus, because flash doesn't have a decent printer driver, and its file conversion methods suck, my current process is: I create an swf of the dimensions I want in inches (e.g. 8.5 x 11) I convert to png and choose a DPI of something like 300 to indicate high resolution, and I select 24 bit, with no alpha channel, in order to avoid the ARGB conversion that is screwed for flash. I open that png and I open something like photoshop/illustrator that allows you to convert to a pdf. Is there a better way? ___ Flashcoders mailing list [email protected] http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list [email protected] http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list [email protected] http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] best way to save as pdf from flash?
You can print what you have inside a MovieClip if you want.
just put a label on the first frame of the MC that holds all the
things you want printed and put a "#p"
then place a "#b" on a frame in the MC that holds the other MC that
has the "#p" and the print button.
Then on the button use this script to trigger:
on (press) {
printAsBitmap("(MC that everything is loaded in)", "bmax");
}
There are other options to this that you can google, this worked for
me, but I use "bmax" to get the max area of what I'm printing.
I just haven't figured out how to get it to ignore a mask if there is
one over the image. Oh and I'm programing in AS2. Don't know if that
would matter with this code.
It does not print a PDF but once your in the dialog box you should
have a "save as PDF" button
(I think you have this PDF button on PCs but not sure, I'm on a MAC
and we have one)
Then you can make a PDF from the bitmapData. or if you have a "create-
a-PDF class",
you could format the bitmapData into that.
Just a thought. :)
HTH
Karl DeSaulniers
Design Drumm
http://designdrumm.com
On May 13, 2009, at 3:24 AM, Glen Pike wrote:
Hi,
I am assuming you are talking about the IDE?
Are you doing screenshots for the client?
It might not be helpful, but I just do Test Movie then Alt
+Print Screen or Ctrl+Print Screen and paste into my graphics
program...
Alternatively look at CutePDF or one of the "free" PDF printers
that might help.
Printing from SWF's with the FP Printer - you can draw into a
bitmap first, then print the MC with that in - this means all your
filters & fonts should have been rasterised.
HTH - might have misunderstood your request...
Glen
Anthony Pace wrote:
I would print directly to pdf; yet, I lose the effects I have
placed on MCs; as well, saving it to illustrator directly is a
problem, because flash will screw up the file header when a custom
font that I use is required.
Thus, because flash doesn't have a decent printer driver, and its
file conversion methods suck, my current process is:
I create an swf of the dimensions I want in inches (e.g. 8.5 x 11)
I convert to png and choose a DPI of something like 300 to
indicate high resolution, and I select 24 bit, with no alpha
channel, in order to avoid the ARGB conversion that is screwed for
flash.
I open that png and I open something like photoshop/illustrator
that allows you to convert to a pdf.
Is there a better way?
___
Flashcoders mailing list
[email protected]
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
___
Flashcoders mailing list
[email protected]
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
___
Flashcoders mailing list
[email protected]
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] best way to save as pdf from flash?
Hi, I am assuming you are talking about the IDE? Are you doing screenshots for the client? It might not be helpful, but I just do Test Movie then Alt+Print Screen or Ctrl+Print Screen and paste into my graphics program... Alternatively look at CutePDF or one of the "free" PDF printers that might help. Printing from SWF's with the FP Printer - you can draw into a bitmap first, then print the MC with that in - this means all your filters & fonts should have been rasterised. HTH - might have misunderstood your request... Glen Anthony Pace wrote: I would print directly to pdf; yet, I lose the effects I have placed on MCs; as well, saving it to illustrator directly is a problem, because flash will screw up the file header when a custom font that I use is required. Thus, because flash doesn't have a decent printer driver, and its file conversion methods suck, my current process is: I create an swf of the dimensions I want in inches (e.g. 8.5 x 11) I convert to png and choose a DPI of something like 300 to indicate high resolution, and I select 24 bit, with no alpha channel, in order to avoid the ARGB conversion that is screwed for flash. I open that png and I open something like photoshop/illustrator that allows you to convert to a pdf. Is there a better way? ___ Flashcoders mailing list [email protected] http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list [email protected] http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
