Then trace out event.result.toXMLString() to see what you really got.
From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Gordon Smith
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 12:20 PM
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Simple
Well, for example, using a mask? I know you can put a 'mask' over any
visible object but I don't know how to make a mask which shows a
animated loading swf/image.
--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Alex Harui [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There are so many options, I don't know where to start. You
Hii,
It's really giving me hard time now.
Now, am using blazeds. Have everything in place. My app is compiling fine.
But still control is not reaching to my java code.
I have destination defined like this in my remoting-config.xml:
destination id=loginServiceImpl
properties
one thing to check is whether your app has focus in the browser window
- some browsers do not give the player focus by default. If you click
somewhere on your app running in the browser then press a key do you
get a message?
Another route would be to add a control to your app which definitely
Hi All!
What's the best abstract method to detect maximum width and height of the
container, when its content doesn't force the horizontal and vertical bar to
appear?
For instance, I have VBox and 2 100x100 boxes inside it. In this case
considering the default verticalGap value that is 6,
Hi All
I have a couple of niggling lay out issues that I can't seem to
resolve and was hoping that someone could help me with them.
I have a popup with an HBox in. on the left I have VBOx (lets call it
the controls Vbox) and on the right a text area. Both have height=100%.
With in the controls
On Friday 14 Dec 2007, Tom Chiverton wrote:
Can anyone explain why I don't get asdoc code for the asdoc commented
public variables in the following class (Flex 3 beta 3), or is this a bug ?
I've logged a bug: #SDK-14024
--
Tom Chiverton
Helping to enthusiastically maintain global
On Saturday 15 Dec 2007, Giles Roadnight wrote:
Has anyone ever had anyhtign like this? It really does seem impossible
to me - I had deleted all the code and the compiled swfs. I have no
idea where the swf were being generated from.
Yeah, web browser/server/SSL accelerator 'helpfully' caching
Thanks Tom - it definitely wasn't the browser as I cleared the cache
(several times).
I did change the publish location to a local drive rather than a network
share / web location and I thought that I was still getting the old content
- but I'm not sure.
If the server was caching it then that
On Monday 17 Dec 2007, Giles Roadnight wrote:
If the server was caching it then that does seem like that might be the
reason. How do you clear the cache in server 2003 then?
Linux guy :-)
--
Tom Chiverton
Helping to centrally innovate user-centric bandwidth
on:
Hii..
It's really giving me hard time now.
Now, am using blazeds. Have everything in place. My app is compiling fine.
But still control is not reaching to my java code.
I have destination defined like this in my remoting-config.xml:
destination id=loginServiceImpl
properties
Hi Manu
It seems like you are trying to take two steps at once.
Before working with Cairngorm i would try to create a very simple
Remoting example.
I'm sure you can find one in the help files.
Cheers
Ralf
On Dec 17, 2007 12:35 PM, Manu Dhanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hii..
It's
Hi all,
Am in process of migrating app to Flex 3, as bug in 2.01 prevents
applying Fade to Flash CS3 MovieClips, which is essential for app
(see another flexcoders thread).
Anyway, the first issue I have encountered is that TileLists are
behaving differently.
The TileList click event no
Hello,
I inherited some code and I'm trying to get it to compile. This code
should be straight-forward, but it's saying it can't file the file:
var termsFile:File =
File.applicationStorageDirectory.resolvePath(Terms.txt);
var stream:FileStream = new FileStream();
stream.open(termsFile,
Howdy -
Working on a design-y site that would probably more naturally be done in the
Flash
Authoring tool but I want to understand more about Flex so I'm going that
route. A
designer I'm working with on the project delivered an Illustrator file that is
the background
for the main page of
hi, i'm relatively new to all this so please bear with me... =)
i have something like this in my mxml file:
canvas
vbox
vbox /
canvas /
vbox /
/vbox
/canvas
now, all of this gets stored inside a draggable panel during runtime.
also, during this time, the inner canvas gets zoomed
On Monday 17 Dec 2007, Manu Dhanda wrote:
Using Cairngorm, do we anywhere need to define something like that:
You'll have that call in your Delegate class. I didn't see that in the
snippits of code you gave.
--
Tom Chiverton
Helping to enormously harvest second-generation customers
on:
It's not very clear what you are asking I'm afraid. Also the xml you
supplied is not valid (jsut to be picky). I assume you mean:
canvas
vbox
vbox /
canvas /
vbox
/vbox
/canvas
you coudl try horizontalCenter=0 and verticalCenter=0 on the inner
canvas to keep it centered. I'm not sure what you
ah, thanks for the clarification. somehow I missed that part about
AIR. It seem like it would not be too hard (or a security problem)
to build that functionality into the regular version. I implement
the same functionality by just appending a random string onto the URL
when I want to
I think if you just add
width=100% height=100% to the Application tag and replace it in the
swflaoder tag. You'll probably need to set a parameter that will allow the
swf loader image to change it's aspect ratio as well
On Dec 17, 2007 4:07 AM, nylarch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Howdy -
Check it (the text file) is in the bin directory (normally set by
default to be [projectRoot]/bin , but that may have been set
differently in project properties), which is where the debug version
will be running from...
It's probably a reasonable idea to do a file.exists check in your code
as
Hi all,
I'm creating a custom component in mxml, and discovered a warning
while I was debugging (due to sth else). What followed was a
stripped-down testcase to reproduce the warning, which seems to be
successfull. But I can't get my head around how to get rid of this
warning:
warning:
I completely agree with the Hibernate a lot of joins issue. I look
at some of these queries and it's a little nuts. On the other hand,
we are deep into using Annotations with Hibernate which has been much
easier for us to maintain than the mapping files. I'll have to take a
look at
I am having a problem when I include the Cairngorm Enterprise 2.2.1
in my Flex project (Flex 3 Beta 2), I can no long access my design
view in flex. Has anyone else had this issue and is there a work
around? (Currently I am just not using the design view.) This may
have been fixed in
Is there any way I can make the triangle item renderer point downwards
instead of upwards? We are creating a stock chart and need to have
some down arrows in certain places on the chart..
I don't have too much time to post, as I am at work, but here is a
snippet of a project I've been working on that might help:
//Dump current series to array
var allSeries:Array = bigChart.series;
//Set chart series to the array
I'm communicating with a MS SQL 2005 Server via Flex 2.01.
my original query:
SELECT code,
code_description,
sub_category
FROM flexing_price_list
WHERE (code LIKE 'al%')
UNION ALL
SELECT code,
code_description,
NULL
FROM flexing_products
WHERE (code LIKE 'al%')
gave me the error:
Thanks for the help and insight.
--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Tracy Spratt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here is an example that shows several ways to pass data between a popup
and the main app. It does not use events, which you should also look
into.
Hi.
In a itemrenderer I'd like to access a {data} value in a Script in the
itemrenderer. I just can't figure out how to do this.
I have an ArrayCollection as the dataprovider for the DataGrid.
In a Column, I sue a itemrenderer status
Inside renderer.status.as I have a VBox, with a init()
Hi,
I'm having a problem with a shared object.. it contains basically a
coldfusion structure that holds a bunch of query reuslts and other
structure elements.
For some reason, I've started having trouble loading the shared object.
I'm using Flex Builder 3 beta 2, compiling with the 2.0.1 hot
I put the width of my flex app in the application tag of 1280 but now
I want to center this in case the user has a screen width of say
1920.. Does anyone know how I can accomplish this? I am new to flex
and sorry if this is a stupid question :(
I used to have this code working in Flex 3 Beta 2:
var table:* = e.result.Tables.Table0.Rows;
JFA = new ArrayCollection(table);
Now that I've installed Flex 3 Beta 3, I'm getting a 1034 error, where I
can't convert mx:collections:ArrayCollection to an Array. But it still
appears that the
The HTML Center tag?
greggiec wrote:
I put the width of my flex app in the application tag of 1280 but now
I want to center this in case the user has a screen width of say
1920.. Does anyone know how I can accomplish this? I am new to flex
and sorry if this is a stupid question :(
Worked Great Thanks!!
--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Jeffry Houser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The HTML Center tag?
greggiec wrote:
I put the width of my flex app in the application tag of 1280 but now
I want to center this in case the user has a screen width of say
1920..
perfect! thanks a lot!
2007/12/17, Muzak [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Add the following to the compiler options:
-default-size 1024 768
- Original Message -
From: Bart Wttewaall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 2:13 AM
Subject:
yes. this was fixed in the latest build. thanks. - kevin
On Dec 12, 2007, at 5:25 AM, Igor Costa wrote:
Kevin
witch build do you have?
Im with last flex 3 beta 2 and doesnt approach that error.
Regards
Igor Costa
www.igorcosta.org
www.igorcosta.com
On Dec 11, 2007 7:00 PM, Kevin
--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Giles Roadnight [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think if you just add
width=100% height=100% to the Application tag and replace it in the
swflaoder tag. You'll probably need to set a parameter that will
allow the
swf loader image to change it's aspect ratio as
99% sure its not possible to duplicate display objects
--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, aceoohay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have a couple of display objects such as a panel and an HBox which
have a number of children. I would like to make a copy of them into
another container such as a
Its because you're calling your compute function from the change
event. Try calling it from itemFocusIn or itemClick or something.
HTH,
Ben
--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, m.frigge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hey there,
i found some nice examples for an itemRenderer here
Based on your syntax, it looks like you're trying to return a .NET
DataSet from a WebService?
Have you checked the data type of table? Perhaps it's not an Array? If
WebService's makeObjectsBindable property is set to true (which it is by
default), perhaps you already have an ArrayCollection (in
It worked in Beta 2, which led me to believe that the conversion wasn't
a problem. Based upon what you said, I tried removing the new
operator, and that worked. Using new is pretty automatic to me and I
never really thought about what it did; I suppose I'll study that now to
make sure I know what
I don't have any small examples I could post here but if you want to
dive into using MVC on Flex, check out the Cairngorm framework. It
provides you some useful classes to extend and implement regarding the
structuring of the varous MVC components.
ModelLocator is a simple singleton class with
I forgot to show you how you use it. So anywhwere in the application
you can now say: ModelLocator.getInstance().someProperty...
It provides you global access throughout you application.
--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, JWOpitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't have any small examples I
I'm using Flex Builder 3 beta, the Subclipse plugin, and Subversion to
manage my Flex project. I'd like to add my bin folder to Subversion,
but it appears that whenever I publish, FB deletes the entire bin
directory and recreates it with the new published version. The trouble
is that whenever it
--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, m.frigge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hey there,
i found some nice examples for an itemRenderer here
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui/2007/03/thinking_about_item_renderers_1.h\
tml .
I tried to use one of them for an app i am developing.
In my case i need the
I've run into a strange behavior with a Canvas component. I'm using a
Canvas to do some basic GoogleMap-like functionality: I add images to
the canvas, it's got scrollbars because the added images sometimes
extend the size of the canvas beyond it's container size, and it's
draggable. There are
Hey Ben,
thx for your answer, but it is doing exactly the same when I use the
itemClick event and when I use itemFocusIn it doesn't do anything at
all?! I reckon I either have to customize the column or the Renderer..
something like that. But I don't have enough experience to figure out
what and
Hi,
I have an ActionScript class mapped to a remote Java class using the
[RemoteClass(alias=...)] syntax, and a Java object accessed via a
RemoteObject component that returns objects of that kind.
For some reason, this object doesn't get converted to its
strongly typed ActionScript class (all
It is also worth mentioning that you will likely not be able to read
the URL until APPLICATION_COMPLETE.
http://www.reversefold.com/wordpress/2007/10/09/grabbing-the-swf%e2%80%99s-url-when-the-swf-is-loaded/
On Dec 4, 2007 5:38 PM, ivansebastiansurya
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
didn't work.
Hello, I have a datagrid displaying data, but my last column is
suppose to display an image and when this image is clicked, I'm
suppose to popup a menu that will allow the user to change the color
of the text in that row (kind of like marking that row as read).
As such whenever the user clicks
Hi Johan,
I tried that as well .. I also tried .styleChanged() and it doesn't do
anything. The changed text properties are only visible when the item
gets deselected!?
Cheers, Max
--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, johantrax [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, m.frigge
Thanks Kevin. Your solution is what I ended up doing naturally (I
posted the question few days ago and needed to get something done).
I thought back to my days dealing with Visual Basic 6 and remembered
items like TextBoxes had a DataValue associated with it. So, I
subclassed TextInput, and
I'm owner Flex 2.0.1 License and Charts. Before F2b3 my license for
Flex Builder and Flex Charts works well, but now it said - Invalid key!?
Are licenses incompatible now?
Hi everybody ...
is the latest flex builder 3 beta 3 as i remember is it stable to build
solid and heavily application or should i stick with flex builder 2?
Thanks
Hello,
I inherited some code and I'm trying to get it to compile. This code should be
straight-
forward, but it's saying it can't file the file:
var termsFile:File = File.applicationStorageDirectory.resolvePath(Terms.txt);
var stream:FileStream = new FileStream();
stream.open(termsFile,
Hi,
I have a simple cfc, the function is like this,it get a department
list
cffunction name=getDept displayname=getDept access=remote
output=false returntype=query
cfquery name=getDepartment datasource=bursary
SELECT Id, Dept
Publish to a different folder than bin.
When you create a Flex project, you have the option to publish the output to
any folder you would like. The default is bin. I know that when I publish,
say directly to my web server, the folders are not recreated. Only the SWF
and HTML.
Rob
On Dec 17, 2007
Here's the two that I've used:
http://drumbeatinsight.com/htmlcomponent
http://ccgi.arutherford.plus.com/blog/wordpress/?page_id=132
___
Joseph Balderson, Flash Platform Developer | http://joeflash.ca
Abobe Certified Developer
Hi,
I want to display an XML file as is (like in IE) in an mxml page. Is
it possible to do it in flex?? And if it is, can anyone please tell me
how to do it.
Thank You,
Tarun
Try using the toString() method of the XML class, and then dump it into
a text field.
___
Joseph Balderson, Flash Platform Developer | http://joeflash.ca
Abobe Certified Developer Trainer | 705-466-6345
Writing partner, Community MX |
toXMLString()
From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joseph Balderson
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 9:46 AM
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Can we Display XML file As Is in Flex
Try using the
None
- Original Message
From: markflex2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 12:22:59 PM
Subject: [flexcoders] ArrayCollection question in Cairngorm?
Hi,
I have a simple cfc, the function is like this,it
Yup, there's no good automatic way. I would probably add clone()
methods to the display objects I was interested in cloning, so they can
intelligently reproduce themselves
From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of
It should just be the .data property. What did you try? However, I'd
look at the examples on my blog (blogs.adobe.com/aharui). You probably
don't need to use VBox which is pretty heavy.
From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of
How about using PopUpManager to popup something over the datagrid?
From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of brey_magenta
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 12:08 AM
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Loading
Hi
I am using cfc get a list and want to show the list in Flex ComboBox.
Please give a idea how to do this.
Thanks a lot
Mark
Yes, but remember that IE uses xslt to product that pretty formatted
display.
toXMLString() will print exactly what is in the xml text. If there are
no newlines, it will be hard to read.
Tracy
From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
All of a sudden after upgrading to Flex 3 Beta 3 I am getting the
following error.
faultDetail=Channel.Connect.Failed error NetConnection.Call.Failed:
HTTP: Failed: url: 'http://localhost:8080/myApp/messagebroker/amf'
When I try to access the url directly I get:
Servlet
Greetings All!
I have a major problem, where I have a function that properly scales an
Object *just* before sending it to the printer.
The issue is, the Object isn't scaling fast enough, so by the time it
gets added to the PrintJob, it still isn't the proper scale - and looks
completely wrong on
Set the result of the data service call as the dataProvider of the
ComboBox, set the labelField as needed, and there you go.
Tracy
From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of markflex2007
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 1:06 PM
Yes, in my apps all my input components are extended version of the
Flex ones so that I can add that extra functionality/formatting to
them quickly and easily across the entire app.
- Kevin
On Dec 17, 2007, at 12:06 PM, Todd wrote:
I've basically created about 5 or 6 of my own formatted
I have fixed most of the issues I have run into with the changes but
what is the replacement for Shell.shell?
Because beta 3 need valid Flex _3_ license not Flex _2_ license.
You could order Flex 3 maintenance license from somewhere. Matt has
already mentioned this.
George
lytvynyuk wrote:
I'm owner Flex 2.0.1 License and Charts. Before F2b3 my license for
Flex Builder and Flex Charts works well,
Does anybody know whether there's a way to run a script (or something)
on a code base to make sure that all the imported packages are being
used. I suspect that I've imported a few that I no longer use so I'm
trying to find a way to look for imported packages that have no classes
being used.
In your result method of your Command class try this:
var arr:Array = data.result as Array;
modelLocator.acDept = new ArrayCollection( arr );
DJM
--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, markflex2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Hi,
I have a simple cfc, the function is like
Mark, your result is just fine, just define a labelField or a
labelFunction in your combobox.
something like this
mx:ComboBox labelField=DepartmentName
dataProvider={modelLocator.acDept}/
--
João Fernandes
http://www.onflexwithcf.org
http://www.riapt.org
I tried instructing FB to build to a folder called deploy but the
same thing happened. I created the 'deploy' folder and added it to
SVN, but as soon as I did another build it deleted that folder and
created a new one. Then, when I try to add the new folder to SVN, or
add any of its contents, I
That's what I meant ;) Thanks for the catch.
___
Joseph Balderson, Flash Platform Developer | http://joeflash.ca
Abobe Certified Developer Trainer | 705-466-6345
Writing partner, Community MX | http://www.communitymx.com
Alex Harui
Thanks João Fernandes .
Mark
- Original Message
From: João Fernandes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 1:28:20 PM
Subject: Re: [flexcoders] ArrayCollection question in Cairngorm?
Mark, your result is just fine, just define a labelField or
On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 08:26:17AM -0800, Peter Farland wrote:
note that Beta 3 was just released). Note that very recently (build
189998) further properties were added to the ISOAPDecoder interface to
provide more control over how possibly-reoccuring result parts are
decoded in a response.
Is the URL correct?
Can you check your /WEB-INF/web.xml and check it has the servlet and
servlet-mapping defined for MessageBrokerServlet?
If it is there, can you check your server logs to see if there was an
error initializing your web application?
Did you try and merge any WAR files
Why not a popup with a progressBar? If there's nothing to report progress
on, you can just use a Timer to increment the progress bar and have the
event listener handler get rid of the popup when whatever you're doing is
finished.
~randy
_
From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Hi,
I have a combobox like
mx:ComboBox id=userSelect dataProvider={userList}
labelField=userName/
I have username and userID and I will send the userid to database.
which attribute in ComboBox I can use to save the userid value?
the userList is ArrayCollection and have username and userid.
You can access the user id like this:
Var sUserId:String = userSelect.selectedItem.userid;
From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of markflex2007
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 2:15 PM
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Subject:
What's most noticeable is that on deployed versions of our app, if I
navigate directly to:
myApp/messagebroker/amf
I get a blank screen, but on my dev machine...
Servlet MessageBrokerServlet is not available
This is very weird. It's like the resource disappeared...
I have checked most of
In Flex 3 SDK builds 189998 or later, you should be able to set the
forcePartArrays on the WS operation:
myWebService.myOperation.forcePartArrays = true;
Regards,
Pete
P.S. Another issue is for RPC-Encoded operations responses - by default
these decode as an Array, but often you want
I finally found a fix for this. Shell.shell was replaced by
NativeApplication.nativeApplication
I have narrowed the problem down to my data-management-config
destinations...
I am not sure why this would have broken all of a sudden. But
basically if I take everything but the default channel out of my
destinations file then the server loads correctly and the
messagebroker/amf maps
Tree is buggy in Flex 2. If you can, get on the beta for Flex 3 and see
if you still have problems there.
From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Boson Au
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 10:40 AM
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Could you try chaining Events?
In your function when you scale your object, can you fire off an event
when the object scaling is done. And then in the listener for thisnew
event, fire off the Print Job?
I don't know the specifics of the PrintJob API, or what you're doing
wtih Object scaling.
You can have a function that starts the print job, gets the page width and
height, and then the last thing it does is attach an event listener for an
end-of-scaling event and fires off the scaling function. The scaling
function finishes and dispatches the end-of-scaling event, which runs your
In the code below, the event listerer function should have been:
private function finishPrint(event:CustomEvent)
Sorry, typing faster than I'm thinking.
~randy
--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Randy Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You can have a function that starts the print job, gets
Just add your Panel and HBox to another container, and send this other
container to the print job.
Here's the pseudo code:
var newContainer:VBox = new Vbox();
newContainer.add( hbMainTitle );
newContainer.add( dspChildWithFocus);
printJob.addObject (newContainer);
Viola.
Well, you
In general, you want to store/cache data in the data objects. I would
have some sort of getter for totalQty that knows it hasn't been
calculated yet.
private var _totalQty:int = -1;
public function get totalQty():int
{
if (_totalQty 0)
_totalQty = goAddItUp();
return
Is there a simple way to have vertical axis labels show up on both the
right and left sides of a chart? I have a very wide chart and it
would be helpful if there were reference points on both sides.
Thanks in advance.
Geoff
Hi;
Ive been using the drawing api to create circles, but sometimes they
come out flattened, as if the bottom or right edges were sliced off.
Has anyone seen that? By the way, oddly, if I animate the scale up
and down, it draws correctly. Below is the code I used:
// this extends UIComponent
I'd not worry about crafting a strict Object heiarchy. I've yet to
see a perfect Domain object model that mimics all these relationships,
etc. Especially when trying to mimic that of a relational database.
What tends to happen is that you optimize for your domain model at a
given point in
Hi
I am a newbie with a problem - I have a datagrid with an itemRenderer.
The itemRenderer is an AS class that extends LinkButton and just
checks if the data is 0 or not. If it is 0 then disable the button.
Then it adds an event listener:
addEventListener(MouseEvent.CLICK,
Anybody?
My application fails (error 1009) when it retrieves an object from our
production CF server but works fine when it retrieves the same object
from our testing CF server. From the ColdFusion side the generated
objects appear to be identical. From the Flex side the returned objects
appear to be
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