Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives
Using ZK and Java is great. I'm still sticking to Flex for developing desktop applications and gaming. Of course, many will still using it for animations, there is no such thing as abandon, some developers are just over use Flash and end up hurting user experience than necessary. When it comes to web application, I stick to PHP but will definitely use Flex for mobile, desktop and components within the web browser. On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 10:16 AM, michael_reg...@dell.com wrote: ** Staying with Flex. Not looking elsewhere. ** ** *Michael* ** ** *From:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Ron G *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2012 8:15 PM *To:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives ** ** Yes, we have also abandoned Flex in favor of ZKoss. Since we are already a Java shop, on the server side, it seemed logical to use a Java based framework on the client-side. The thing I really like about ZK or ZKoss is that it has equivalent components to Flex. In fact, it actually has more components than Flex. It implements an approach that I really like of separating the UI into appearance and behavior - much like the Spark components of Flex. Well, not exactly, but sort of. :) Here's what I mean. For each UI object, it has a client side (widget) and server side (component). I won't go into further detail, but it gives you a nice separation of concerns that you can avail yourself of. This feature also greatly insulates the rendered pages from x-browser compatibility issues. Check it out for yourself at their site (zkoss.org). Ron --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Sal sal.celli@... wrote: hi, as i can sadly see from the message history bottom grid, many programmers are leaving flex. So this thread is to ask you all, if you have already found a valid alternative to flex for RIA development.
RE: [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives
Unless I'm not understanding it right, ZKoss looks like it requires some web server configuration in order to run. Flex doesn't, which is nice for people like me who work in server environments they can't control. But it looks like awesome tech! Am I right about it needing server side configuration? Jason Merrill Instructional Technology Architect II Bank of America Global Learning ___ From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron G Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 9:15 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives Yes, we have also abandoned Flex in favor of ZKoss. Since we are already a Java shop, on the server side, it seemed logical to use a Java based framework on the client-side. The thing I really like about ZK or ZKoss is that it has equivalent components to Flex. In fact, it actually has more components than Flex. It implements an approach that I really like of separating the UI into appearance and behavior - much like the Spark components of Flex. Well, not exactly, but sort of. :) Here's what I mean. For each UI object, it has a client side (widget) and server side (component). I won't go into further detail, but it gives you a nice separation of concerns that you can avail yourself of. This feature also greatly insulates the rendered pages from x-browser compatibility issues. Check it out for yourself at their site (zkoss.org). Ron --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.commailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, Sal sal.celli@... wrote: hi, as i can sadly see from the message history bottom grid, many programmers are leaving flex. So this thread is to ask you all, if you have already found a valid alternative to flex for RIA development. -- This message w/attachments (message) is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or proprietary. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender, and then please delete and destroy all copies and attachments, and be advised that any review or dissemination of, or the taking of any action in reliance on, the information contained in or attached to this message is prohibited. Unless specifically indicated, this message is not an offer to sell or a solicitation of any investment products or other financial product or service, an official confirmation of any transaction, or an official statement of Sender. Subject to applicable law, Sender may intercept, monitor, review and retain e-communications (EC) traveling through its networks/systems and may produce any such EC to regulators, law enforcement, in litigation and as required by law. The laws of the country of each sender/recipient may impact the handling of EC, and EC may be archived, supervised and produced in countries other than the country in which you are located. This message cannot be guaranteed to be secure or free of errors or viruses. References to Sender are references to any subsidiary of Bank of America Corporation. Securities and Insurance Products: * Are Not FDIC Insured * Are Not Bank Guaranteed * May Lose Value * Are Not a Bank Deposit * Are Not a Condition to Any Banking Service or Activity * Are Not Insured by Any Federal Government Agency. Attachments that are part of this EC may have additional important disclosures and disclaimers, which you should read. This message is subject to terms available at the following link: http://www.bankofamerica.com/emaildisclaimer. By messaging with Sender you consent to the foregoing.
[flexcoders] Re: How to access IP camera with Adobe air?
Hi James, Thanks for help. how to to access offline mjpeg video? please give me a help. Thanks Mark --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, James Ong yanlilei64@... wrote: Video stream back through mjpeg and output to AIR will be tricky unless you have a streaming server and serve over UDP protocol. Definitely need a server to push data into the AIR application. If you prefer to access offline mjpeg video, it should be easy as using netconnection. On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 3:00 AM, markflex2007 markflex2007@...wrote: ** IP camera is not attached to current computer. and just provide a access ip that is a mjpeg format file. Any idea to do this.Thanks Mark --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, markflex2007 markflex2007@ wrote: Hi IP camera can provide a link/url with mjpeg format. I am not sure how air/flex can access it. The problem is how to load mjpeg link in Flex/Air now. mjpeg is motion jpeg. I try different ways and I can not load the link in flex. Please help. Thanks Mark
[flexcoders] Re: Flex Virtual Camera
any way flex can access Virtual Camera? Thanks Mark --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Dave Cates dave.cates@... wrote: Hey Mark, Camera.getCamera will only work for physically connected devices to the machine where the Flash app is running - like a USB webcam. What you want to do is access the IP camera via a StageWebView component - basically a webkit browser. Just point the component at the URL for the camera. http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FlashPlatform/reference/actionscript/3/flash/media/StageWebView.html That will display the camera output as it would do in a standard browser. Hope that helps! Dave. On 11 Jan 2012, at 19:42, markflex2007 wrote: Hi, I have a ip camera and it is hard to access it with Flex app directly now. I plan to the following things. 1. install virtual camera software in local pc. 2. use virtual camera access the ip camera. 3. use Flex access Virtual camera. Do you think if it is possible. I am not sure if the following code can work with virtual camera. any idea? var cam:Camera = Camera.getCamera(); Thanks for help Mark --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Fernando Lobos fernandolobos@ wrote: Flash media server is your best friend On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 4:14 PM, markflex2007 markflex2007@wrote: ** Is someone know how to use flex access virtual camera? Thanks Mark --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Zuberul Islam zuberul@ wrote: hi all, the problem isnt solved yet. my virtual camera works well with all other applications. but flex crashes to detect them. whats the property that flex searches for ? or is there any special interface property that must be preset ?? Thanks in Advance. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Zuberul Islam zuberul@ wrote: Hello All, i have written a virtual webcam application as a directshow filter have registered it in windows. from flex when i call Camera.names the flex application crashes. but when the virtual camera's are unregistered the application runs well. so what's the problem with these virtual cameras ?? Thanks.
[flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives
Hi Jason, The only configuration is that I had to drop several of their jar files into the endorsed directory of Tomcat. Ron --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Merrill, Jason jason.merrill@... wrote: Unless I'm not understanding it right, ZKoss looks like it requires some web server configuration in order to run. Flex doesn't, which is nice for people like me who work in server environments they can't control. But it looks like awesome tech! Am I right about it needing server side configuration? Jason Merrill Instructional Technology Architect II Bank of America Global Learning ___ From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron G Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 9:15 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives Yes, we have also abandoned Flex in favor of ZKoss. Since we are already a Java shop, on the server side, it seemed logical to use a Java based framework on the client-side. The thing I really like about ZK or ZKoss is that it has equivalent components to Flex. In fact, it actually has more components than Flex. It implements an approach that I really like of separating the UI into appearance and behavior - much like the Spark components of Flex. Well, not exactly, but sort of. :) Here's what I mean. For each UI object, it has a client side (widget) and server side (component). I won't go into further detail, but it gives you a nice separation of concerns that you can avail yourself of. This feature also greatly insulates the rendered pages from x-browser compatibility issues. Check it out for yourself at their site (zkoss.org). Ron --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.commailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, Sal sal.celli@ wrote: hi, as i can sadly see from the message history bottom grid, many programmers are leaving flex. So this thread is to ask you all, if you have already found a valid alternative to flex for RIA development. -- This message w/attachments (message) is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or proprietary. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender, and then please delete and destroy all copies and attachments, and be advised that any review or dissemination of, or the taking of any action in reliance on, the information contained in or attached to this message is prohibited. Unless specifically indicated, this message is not an offer to sell or a solicitation of any investment products or other financial product or service, an official confirmation of any transaction, or an official statement of Sender. Subject to applicable law, Sender may intercept, monitor, review and retain e-communications (EC) traveling through its networks/systems and may produce any such EC to regulators, law enforcement, in litigation and as required by law. The laws of the country of each sender/recipient may impact the handling of EC, and EC may be archived, supervised and produced in countries other than the country in which you are located. This message cannot be guaranteed to be secure or free of errors or viruses. References to Sender are references to any subsidiary of Bank of America Corporation. Securities and Insurance Products: * Are Not FDIC Insured * Are Not Bank Guaranteed * May Lose Value * Are Not a Bank Deposit * Are Not a Condition to Any Banking Service or Activity * Are Not Insured by Any Federal Government Agency. Attachments that are part of this EC may have additional important disclosures and disclaimers, which you should read. This message is subject to terms available at the following link: http://www.bankofamerica.com/emaildisclaimer. By messaging with Sender you consent to the foregoing.
[flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives
Hi James, I certainly respect the decision of those who are sticking with Flex, but I would suggest that developers do so with the recognition that they may be developing with a technology that isn't going to be around that long. I could write at length about this, but, in a nutshell, here's why. On the one hand, you have an open-source project that is geared toward enterprise application development, but it is completely dependent on a proprietary runtime. That runtime is manufactured by a company who has stated its future is digital media and digital marketing, and that it believes the future of enterprise web application development is HTML5. It then begs the question, How long will they bloat their Flashplayer to support an open-source Flex community's enterprise web application development goals and wishes? To accommodate the Flex community, Adobe gets nothing in return for its expenditure of time and money in designing, developing, testing the features the Flex community requires now and in the future. It also means that, by supporting Flex in their runtime, the Flashplayer has an unnecessarily larger footprint than would otherwise be required. So, ask yourself if you truly believe Flex will be a supported product by Adobe in 5-10 years from now. I highly doubt it. On the other hand, I think if a developer uses Flash Pro to develop digital media for their applications, they can probably count on that being around indefinitely. But, not Flex. Ron --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, James Ong yanlilei64@... wrote: Using ZK and Java is great. I'm still sticking to Flex for developing desktop applications and gaming. Of course, many will still using it for animations, there is no such thing as abandon, some developers are just over use Flash and end up hurting user experience than necessary. When it comes to web application, I stick to PHP but will definitely use Flex for mobile, desktop and components within the web browser. On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 10:16 AM, michael_regert@... wrote: ** Staying with Flex. Not looking elsewhere. ** ** *Michael* ** ** *From:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Ron G *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2012 8:15 PM *To:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives ** ** Yes, we have also abandoned Flex in favor of ZKoss. Since we are already a Java shop, on the server side, it seemed logical to use a Java based framework on the client-side. The thing I really like about ZK or ZKoss is that it has equivalent components to Flex. In fact, it actually has more components than Flex. It implements an approach that I really like of separating the UI into appearance and behavior - much like the Spark components of Flex. Well, not exactly, but sort of. :) Here's what I mean. For each UI object, it has a client side (widget) and server side (component). I won't go into further detail, but it gives you a nice separation of concerns that you can avail yourself of. This feature also greatly insulates the rendered pages from x-browser compatibility issues. Check it out for yourself at their site (zkoss.org). Ron --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Sal sal.celli@ wrote: hi, as i can sadly see from the message history bottom grid, many programmers are leaving flex. So this thread is to ask you all, if you have already found a valid alternative to flex for RIA development.
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives
Flex is an awesome product.Period. Atleast until version 3. Then they bloated it. The new spark component makes it easy to do the skinning but it costs a big deal in download time. I am not sure there is anything flex specific in the Flash Player Runtime. Flex is totally written with AS3 and the flash player runs AS3. The path I would suggest the Apache Flex guys to go is towards creating a Flex to JS/HTML5 Cross compiler. This would be something that would help them quite a lot. Write code with AS3 and output to JS. There are quite a lot of Flex apps out there ( especially in the corprate world ). Given that adobe has given up on Flex ( which means they wont have any premium support ) these guys will be looking for a solution that can work as good as their current applications. Ofcourse, the big players ( especially in the financial industry ) are going to be slow to move. They wont change something just because Adobe wont support it quite in the future. They would be looking to change. This is the point where the Apache Flex community needs to catch up on. Flex is currently the biggest load on a ship called Flash Player Runtime. There is a significantly large hole in this ship. That would not have been the case, if Adobe had not shot itself in the foot, but that is a different topic altogether. Now, if one of the biggest load happens to unload quite fast onto another boat the rest of the smaller entities on the ship can jump on. If not, the other smaller entities wont die. They will just become a fish :) . Everything evolves, the question is how do you want to evolve! On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Ron G rgri...@sinclairoil.com wrote: ** Hi James, I certainly respect the decision of those who are sticking with Flex, but I would suggest that developers do so with the recognition that they may be developing with a technology that isn't going to be around that long. I could write at length about this, but, in a nutshell, here's why. On the one hand, you have an open-source project that is geared toward enterprise application development, but it is completely dependent on a proprietary runtime. That runtime is manufactured by a company who has stated its future is digital media and digital marketing, and that it believes the future of enterprise web application development is HTML5. It then begs the question, How long will they bloat their Flashplayer to support an open-source Flex community's enterprise web application development goals and wishes? To accommodate the Flex community, Adobe gets nothing in return for its expenditure of time and money in designing, developing, testing the features the Flex community requires now and in the future. It also means that, by supporting Flex in their runtime, the Flashplayer has an unnecessarily larger footprint than would otherwise be required. So, ask yourself if you truly believe Flex will be a supported product by Adobe in 5-10 years from now. I highly doubt it. On the other hand, I think if a developer uses Flash Pro to develop digital media for their applications, they can probably count on that being around indefinitely. But, not Flex. Ron --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, James Ong yanlilei64@... wrote: Using ZK and Java is great. I'm still sticking to Flex for developing desktop applications and gaming. Of course, many will still using it for animations, there is no such thing as abandon, some developers are just over use Flash and end up hurting user experience than necessary. When it comes to web application, I stick to PHP but will definitely use Flex for mobile, desktop and components within the web browser. On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 10:16 AM, michael_regert@... wrote: ** Staying with Flex. Not looking elsewhere. ** ** *Michael* ** ** *From:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Ron G *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2012 8:15 PM *To:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives ** ** Yes, we have also abandoned Flex in favor of ZKoss. Since we are already a Java shop, on the server side, it seemed logical to use a Java based framework on the client-side. The thing I really like about ZK or ZKoss is that it has equivalent components to Flex. In fact, it actually has more components than Flex. It implements an approach that I really like of separating the UI into appearance and behavior - much like the Spark components of Flex. Well, not exactly, but sort of. :) Here's what I mean. For each UI object, it has a client side (widget) and server side (component). I won't go into further detail, but it gives you a nice separation of concerns that you can avail yourself of. This feature also greatly insulates the rendered pages from x-browser compatibility issues. Check it out for
RE: [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives
Yep, and with no ability to access or make mods to the server like that, it would be a no-go for us unfortunately. Jason Merrill Instructional Technology Architect II Bank of America Global Learning ___ From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron G Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 12:13 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives Hi Jason, The only configuration is that I had to drop several of their jar files into the endorsed directory of Tomcat. Ron --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.commailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, Merrill, Jason jason.merrill@... wrote: Unless I'm not understanding it right, ZKoss looks like it requires some web server configuration in order to run. Flex doesn't, which is nice for people like me who work in server environments they can't control. But it looks like awesome tech! Am I right about it needing server side configuration? Jason Merrill Instructional Technology Architect II Bank of America Global Learning ___ From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.commailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.commailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron G Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 9:15 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.commailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives Yes, we have also abandoned Flex in favor of ZKoss. Since we are already a Java shop, on the server side, it seemed logical to use a Java based framework on the client-side. The thing I really like about ZK or ZKoss is that it has equivalent components to Flex. In fact, it actually has more components than Flex. It implements an approach that I really like of separating the UI into appearance and behavior - much like the Spark components of Flex. Well, not exactly, but sort of. :) Here's what I mean. For each UI object, it has a client side (widget) and server side (component). I won't go into further detail, but it gives you a nice separation of concerns that you can avail yourself of. This feature also greatly insulates the rendered pages from x-browser compatibility issues. Check it out for yourself at their site (zkoss.org). Ron --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.commailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.commailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, Sal sal.celli@ wrote: hi, as i can sadly see from the message history bottom grid, many programmers are leaving flex. So this thread is to ask you all, if you have already found a valid alternative to flex for RIA development. -- This message w/attachments (message) is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or proprietary. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender, and then please delete and destroy all copies and attachments, and be advised that any review or dissemination of, or the taking of any action in reliance on, the information contained in or attached to this message is prohibited. Unless specifically indicated, this message is not an offer to sell or a solicitation of any investment products or other financial product or service, an official confirmation of any transaction, or an official statement of Sender. Subject to applicable law, Sender may intercept, monitor, review and retain e-communications (EC) traveling through its networks/systems and may produce any such EC to regulators, law enforcement, in litigation and as required by law. The laws of the country of each sender/recipient may impact the handling of EC, and EC may be archived, supervised and produced in countries other than the country in which you are located. This message cannot be guaranteed to be secure or free of errors or viruses. References to Sender are references to any subsidiary of Bank of America Corporation. Securities and Insurance Products: * Are Not FDIC Insured * Are Not Bank Guaranteed * May Lose Value * Are Not a Bank Deposit * Are Not a Condition to Any Banking Service or Activity * Are Not Insured by Any Federal Government Agency. Attachments that are part of this EC may have additional important disclosures and disclaimers, which you should read. This message is subject to terms available at the following link: http://www.bankofamerica.com/emaildisclaimer. By messaging with Sender you consent to the foregoing. -- This message w/attachments (message) is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or proprietary. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender, and then please delete and destroy all copies and attachments, and be advised that any review or
RE: [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives
I think it will be interesting to see how many people actually show up at MAX this year. Jason Merrill Instructional Technology Architect II Bank of America Global Learning ___ From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ganaraj p r Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 1:15 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives Flex is an awesome product.Period. Atleast until version 3. Then they bloated it. The new spark component makes it easy to do the skinning but it costs a big deal in download time. I am not sure there is anything flex specific in the Flash Player Runtime. Flex is totally written with AS3 and the flash player runs AS3. The path I would suggest the Apache Flex guys to go is towards creating a Flex to JS/HTML5 Cross compiler. This would be something that would help them quite a lot. Write code with AS3 and output to JS. There are quite a lot of Flex apps out there ( especially in the corprate world ). Given that adobe has given up on Flex ( which means they wont have any premium support ) these guys will be looking for a solution that can work as good as their current applications. Ofcourse, the big players ( especially in the financial industry ) are going to be slow to move. They wont change something just because Adobe wont support it quite in the future. They would be looking to change. This is the point where the Apache Flex community needs to catch up on. Flex is currently the biggest load on a ship called Flash Player Runtime. There is a significantly large hole in this ship. That would not have been the case, if Adobe had not shot itself in the foot, but that is a different topic altogether. Now, if one of the biggest load happens to unload quite fast onto another boat the rest of the smaller entities on the ship can jump on. If not, the other smaller entities wont die. They will just become a fish :) . Everything evolves, the question is how do you want to evolve! On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Ron G rgri...@sinclairoil.commailto:rgri...@sinclairoil.com wrote: Hi James, I certainly respect the decision of those who are sticking with Flex, but I would suggest that developers do so with the recognition that they may be developing with a technology that isn't going to be around that long. I could write at length about this, but, in a nutshell, here's why. On the one hand, you have an open-source project that is geared toward enterprise application development, but it is completely dependent on a proprietary runtime. That runtime is manufactured by a company who has stated its future is digital media and digital marketing, and that it believes the future of enterprise web application development is HTML5. It then begs the question, How long will they bloat their Flashplayer to support an open-source Flex community's enterprise web application development goals and wishes? To accommodate the Flex community, Adobe gets nothing in return for its expenditure of time and money in designing, developing, testing the features the Flex community requires now and in the future. It also means that, by supporting Flex in their runtime, the Flashplayer has an unnecessarily larger footprint than would otherwise be required. So, ask yourself if you truly believe Flex will be a supported product by Adobe in 5-10 years from now. I highly doubt it. On the other hand, I think if a developer uses Flash Pro to develop digital media for their applications, they can probably count on that being around indefinitely. But, not Flex. Ron --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.commailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, James Ong yanlilei64@... wrote: Using ZK and Java is great. I'm still sticking to Flex for developing desktop applications and gaming. Of course, many will still using it for animations, there is no such thing as abandon, some developers are just over use Flash and end up hurting user experience than necessary. When it comes to web application, I stick to PHP but will definitely use Flex for mobile, desktop and components within the web browser. On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 10:16 AM, michael_regert@... wrote: ** Staying with Flex. Not looking elsewhere. ** ** *Michael* ** ** *From:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.commailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.commailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Ron G *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2012 8:15 PM *To:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.commailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com *Subject:* [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives ** ** Yes, we have also abandoned Flex in favor of ZKoss. Since we are already a Java shop, on the server side, it seemed logical to use a Java based framework on the client-side. The thing I really like about ZK or ZKoss is that it has equivalent components to Flex. In fact, it actually has
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 4.5: Flex in 5 Days
I went through the entire series a few months ago . no crashes, no problems. From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Davidson, Jerry Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 5:58 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Flex 4.5: Flex in 5 Days I'm going through the Flex in 5 Days tutorial on the Adobe website. Has anyone else done this? I ask because I get 1-2 crashes for ever session in every day. I don't get the warm and fuzzies when a product crashes so often. I assume it was all written in LC, but it's the same company. Does anyone know of less buggy tutorials? They can't be YouTube based as our firewall blocks that. I'd love to see one for 4.0 as we might not upgrade to 4.5, but even that is closer than 3.5. TIA, Jerry image001.jpgimage002.jpg
[flexcoders] date problem?
Why does:
trace((new Date(2012,01,15)).toString());
and
trace((new Date('2012','01','15')).toString());
return:
Wed Feb 15 00:00:00 GMT-0800 2012
February??
[flexcoders] Re: date problem?
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FlashPlatform/reference/actionscript/3/Date.html#methodSummary
says:
If you pass two or more arguments, the Date object is assigned a time value
based on the argument values passed, which represent the date's year, month,
date, hour, minute, second, and milliseconds.
--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, luvfotography ygroups@... wrote:
Why does:
trace((new Date(2012,01,15)).toString());
and
trace((new Date('2012','01','15')).toString());
return:
Wed Feb 15 00:00:00 GMT-0800 2012
February??
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 4.5: Flex in 5 Days
So did I. I just wanted to try it out. It may have helped that Ive been using flex for years but Im sure I just followed the whole course and can't remember do any work-rounds or anything like that. I thought, for a free training set is was actually really good. I don't really know of anything any better video wise without actually paying for a Lynda one or something like that. It covered the basics in enough details to defiantly get you well started From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Hindman Sent: 12 January 2012 20:23 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 4.5: Flex in 5 Days I went through the entire series a few months ago . no crashes, no problems. From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Davidson, Jerry Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 5:58 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Flex 4.5: Flex in 5 Days I'm going through the Flex in 5 Days tutorial on the Adobe website. Has anyone else done this? I ask because I get 1-2 crashes for ever session in every day. I don't get the warm and fuzzies when a product crashes so often. I assume it was all written in LC, but it's the same company. Does anyone know of less buggy tutorials? They can't be YouTube based as our firewall blocks that. I'd love to see one for 4.0 as we might not upgrade to 4.5, but even that is closer than 3.5. TIA, Jerry
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives
I can’t think of anything the FlashPlayer could unload from its footprint that wouldn’t just “break the web” for lots of other non-Flex swfs. Adobe has no interest in “breaking the web” and thus it will continue to invest in not doing so. I’m not sure of your definition of “supported product”. If you mean that you can get a support contract from Adobe, we are still deciding on whether to offer extended support. If you mean that Adobe will be developing and selling Flex, it has already stopped. Adobe will be continuing to release FlashBuilder, but all significant Flex work will be done in the Apache project. So, how long will Flex be around? Probably forever, since once you get in the enterprise infrastructure, it is hard to get out. There are still COBOL programs running in the world. How long will Flex be a choice as a development technology? It could be forever as well, it will depend on how you define what Flex is. If you say that it is ActionScript and the Flash Platform, then when HTML5 delivers on its promise of power and productivity, the need for Flash in the browser will likely diminish, but AIR will still remain an attractive way to develop cross-platform desktop apps. But under the definition that Flex is a development paradigm (declarative markup for UI, some script mixed in that supports OOP), Flex may transform to become a popular paradigm for creating HTML5 apps. On 1/12/12 9:38 AM, Ron G rgri...@sinclairoil.com wrote: Hi James, I certainly respect the decision of those who are sticking with Flex, but I would suggest that developers do so with the recognition that they may be developing with a technology that isn't going to be around that long. I could write at length about this, but, in a nutshell, here's why. On the one hand, you have an open-source project that is geared toward enterprise application development, but it is completely dependent on a proprietary runtime. That runtime is manufactured by a company who has stated its future is digital media and digital marketing, and that it believes the future of enterprise web application development is HTML5. It then begs the question, How long will they bloat their Flashplayer to support an open-source Flex community's enterprise web application development goals and wishes? To accommodate the Flex community, Adobe gets nothing in return for its expenditure of time and money in designing, developing, testing the features the Flex community requires now and in the future. It also means that, by supporting Flex in their runtime, the Flashplayer has an unnecessarily larger footprint than would otherwise be required. So, ask yourself if you truly believe Flex will be a supported product by Adobe in 5-10 years from now. I highly doubt it. On the other hand, I think if a developer uses Flash Pro to develop digital media for their applications, they can probably count on that being around indefinitely. But, not Flex. Ron --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com , James Ong yanlilei64@... wrote: Using ZK and Java is great. I'm still sticking to Flex for developing desktop applications and gaming. Of course, many will still using it for animations, there is no such thing as abandon, some developers are just over use Flash and end up hurting user experience than necessary. When it comes to web application, I stick to PHP but will definitely use Flex for mobile, desktop and components within the web browser. On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 10:16 AM, michael_regert@... wrote: ** Staying with Flex. Not looking elsewhere. ** ** *Michael* ** ** *From:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com ] *On Behalf Of *Ron G *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2012 8:15 PM *To:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com *Subject:* [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives ** ** Yes, we have also abandoned Flex in favor of ZKoss. Since we are already a Java shop, on the server side, it seemed logical to use a Java based framework on the client-side. The thing I really like about ZK or ZKoss is that it has equivalent components to Flex. In fact, it actually has more components than Flex. It implements an approach that I really like of separating the UI into appearance and behavior - much like the Spark components of Flex. Well, not exactly, but sort of. :) Here's what I mean. For each UI object, it has a client side (widget) and server side (component). I won't go into further detail, but it gives you a nice separation of concerns that you can avail yourself of. This feature also greatly insulates the rendered pages from x-browser compatibility issues. Check it out for yourself at their site (zkoss.org). Ron --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
[flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives
I think you make my point for me by comparing the future of Flex to COBOL. Yes, it's still around, but we all wish it wasn't and curse it everytime we have to deal with it. As you say, it is hard to get out. So, yes, I still have projects written in Flex that will undoubtedly continue to run for years to come. But, it's hardly a justification for continuing to develop in COBOL...er, uh, I mean Flex. As you say, the need for Flash in the browser will likely diminish. Again, you help make my point against using Flex or FlashBuilder. I find it amusing that some have suggested that Flex and FlashBuilder could be retooled to render HTML5 pages. It confounds me as to why I would want to write MXML and AS3 so it can be translated to HTML and JS. If that is the desired end product, then I suggest developers just develop in HTML and JS to begin with. Translated code is never as efficient as code specifically written in that sytax. Ron --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Alex Harui aharui@... wrote: So, how long will Flex be around? Probably forever, since once you get in the enterprise infrastructure, it is hard to get out. There are still COBOL programs running in the world. How long will Flex be a choice as a development technology? It could be forever as well, it will depend on how you define what Flex is. If you say that it is ActionScript and the Flash Platform, then when HTML5 delivers on its promise of power and productivity, the need for Flash in the browser will likely diminish, but AIR will still remain an attractive way to develop cross-platform desktop apps. But under the definition that Flex is a development paradigm (declarative markup for UI, some script mixed in that supports OOP), Flex may transform to become a popular paradigm for creating HTML5 apps. On 1/12/12 9:38 AM, Ron G rgrimes@... wrote: Hi James, I certainly respect the decision of those who are sticking with Flex, but I would suggest that developers do so with the recognition that they may be developing with a technology that isn't going to be around that long. I could write at length about this, but, in a nutshell, here's why. On the one hand, you have an open-source project that is geared toward enterprise application development, but it is completely dependent on a proprietary runtime. That runtime is manufactured by a company who has stated its future is digital media and digital marketing, and that it believes the future of enterprise web application development is HTML5. It then begs the question, How long will they bloat their Flashplayer to support an open-source Flex community's enterprise web application development goals and wishes? To accommodate the Flex community, Adobe gets nothing in return for its expenditure of time and money in designing, developing, testing the features the Flex community requires now and in the future. It also means that, by supporting Flex in their runtime, the Flashplayer has an unnecessarily larger footprint than would otherwise be required. So, ask yourself if you truly believe Flex will be a supported product by Adobe in 5-10 years from now. I highly doubt it. On the other hand, I think if a developer uses Flash Pro to develop digital media for their applications, they can probably count on that being around indefinitely. But, not Flex. Ron --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com , James Ong yanlilei64@ wrote: Using ZK and Java is great. I'm still sticking to Flex for developing desktop applications and gaming. Of course, many will still using it for animations, there is no such thing as abandon, some developers are just over use Flash and end up hurting user experience than necessary. When it comes to web application, I stick to PHP but will definitely use Flex for mobile, desktop and components within the web browser. On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 10:16 AM, michael_regert@ wrote: ** Staying with Flex. Not looking elsewhere. ** ** *Michael* ** ** *From:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com ] *On Behalf Of *Ron G *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2012 8:15 PM *To:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com *Subject:* [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives ** ** Yes, we have also abandoned Flex in favor of ZKoss. Since we are already a Java shop, on the server side, it seemed logical to use a Java based framework on the client-side. The thing I really like about ZK or ZKoss is that it has equivalent components to Flex. In fact, it actually has more components than Flex. It implements an approach that I really like of separating the UI into appearance and behavior - much like the Spark components of Flex.
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives
I’ve never used COBOL, but I haven’t heard anyone say they really liked working in with it. That’s not true for Flex so even if it gets marginalized because it always remains locked to ActionScript and FlashPlayer, it may not be the subject of cursing. I’m not in disagreement that in the long term, the advantages of Flex/ActionScript/FlashPlayer will be diminished by advances in the HTML/CSS/JS stack. That’s why Adobe has made a major strategic shift to become the tooling leader in the HTML stack. But that doesn’t mean that you should stop using Flex/ActionScript/FlashPlayer right now. Many folks who work with HTML/CSS/JS, even using the many libraries and development methodologies available for it, still feel like the Flex paradigm is superior. Apparently, even Google agrees because they are trying to create their own version of that paradigm with DART. While translated code is never as good, the productivity advantages of a better paradigm have been pretty much proven to be worth it, otherwise, Flex wouldn’t have been that successful either since MXML isn’t as efficient as pure ActionScript, and Google wouldn’t have invested so much in writing their website logic in Java and/or Google Closure and/or DART. There is general support in the Apache Flex project for exploring ways of using the Flex paradigm to create HTML5 apps. Those working on the project are motivated to future-proof their investment in Flex. I don’t see any technical issue blocking us from translating the paradigm to HTML5, and I invite all those who like the Flex paradigm to participate. But at the same time, there is lots of work to be done, lots of solutions to be built, and lots of money to be made on the Flex/AS/FP stack while we wait for the HTML5 stack to deliver on its promises. On 1/12/12 3:37 PM, Ron G rgri...@sinclairoil.com wrote: I think you make my point for me by comparing the future of Flex to COBOL. Yes, it's still around, but we all wish it wasn't and curse it everytime we have to deal with it. As you say, it is hard to get out. So, yes, I still have projects written in Flex that will undoubtedly continue to run for years to come. But, it's hardly a justification for continuing to develop in COBOL...er, uh, I mean Flex. As you say, the need for Flash in the browser will likely diminish. Again, you help make my point against using Flex or FlashBuilder. I find it amusing that some have suggested that Flex and FlashBuilder could be retooled to render HTML5 pages. It confounds me as to why I would want to write MXML and AS3 so it can be translated to HTML and JS. If that is the desired end product, then I suggest developers just develop in HTML and JS to begin with. Translated code is never as efficient as code specifically written in that sytax. Ron --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com , Alex Harui aharui@... wrote: So, how long will Flex be around? Probably forever, since once you get in the enterprise infrastructure, it is hard to get out. There are still COBOL programs running in the world. How long will Flex be a choice as a development technology? It could be forever as well, it will depend on how you define what Flex is. If you say that it is ActionScript and the Flash Platform, then when HTML5 delivers on its promise of power and productivity, the need for Flash in the browser will likely diminish, but AIR will still remain an attractive way to develop cross-platform desktop apps. But under the definition that Flex is a development paradigm (declarative markup for UI, some script mixed in that supports OOP), Flex may transform to become a popular paradigm for creating HTML5 apps. On 1/12/12 9:38 AM, Ron G rgrimes@... wrote: Hi James, I certainly respect the decision of those who are sticking with Flex, but I would suggest that developers do so with the recognition that they may be developing with a technology that isn't going to be around that long. I could write at length about this, but, in a nutshell, here's why. On the one hand, you have an open-source project that is geared toward enterprise application development, but it is completely dependent on a proprietary runtime. That runtime is manufactured by a company who has stated its future is digital media and digital marketing, and that it believes the future of enterprise web application development is HTML5. It then begs the question, How long will they bloat their Flashplayer to support an open-source Flex community's enterprise web application development goals and wishes? To accommodate the Flex community, Adobe gets nothing in return for its expenditure of time and money in designing, developing, testing the features the Flex community requires now and in the future. It also means that, by supporting Flex in their runtime, the Flashplayer has an unnecessarily larger footprint than would otherwise be
[flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives
So, I think we have a similar vision for where things are going with respect to Adobe supporting HTML5 for the enterprise. But, I fail to see why Flex and FlashBuilder would have any part of that. Why not just fall back to your excellent product, Dreamweaver, and enhance it as the IDE for building HTML5 style web applications? No translation is then required. I too like the FlashBuilder/Flex paradigm for development. But, it seems to me that, sooner or later, what you end up with is the FlashBuilder paradigm that allows the user to code with a pseudo OO type of HTML5 as an alternative option to MXML and AS3, since we agree that it's not the translation from as3 to HTML5 that makes sense, but the paradigm itself. As for that doesn't mean you should stop using Flex/ActionScript/FlashPlayer right now, I would disagree. Over the past dozen years, I have already gone through 4 generations of web architecture: 1) CGI 2) server side XSLT transformation rendering a DHTML web page for client side 3) Flash 2004 until Adobe abandoned the push for developers to use Flash for applications and created... 4) Flex I would like to settle upon a single client-side technology that I can rely upon to be here in 15 years. Novell and Adobe have failed me in this regard. The only piece of my stack to not drop the ball on me is Java, which is why we are going with a Java based framework where the UI logic can reside server side. Do you know how hard it is to hire someone that can come in and be competent in all 4 of my web architecture generations? Very difficult. So, it's better to stop developing in Flex now so that I have less older generation architectures to eventually convert to ZKoss. Once that is done, finding someone who can help maintain all of our projects becomes a much easier task. Anyway, I very much appreciate hearing from an Adobe Flex SDK staff member. You have helped clarify that the direction I am taking is the right one. Hopefully, it's convinced a few others to not waste time writing in a technology that will one day require migration of an even greater backlog of projects to their inevitably new chosen technology stack. Ron --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Alex Harui aharui@... wrote: I'm not in disagreement that in the long term, the advantages of Flex/ActionScript/FlashPlayer will be diminished by advances in the HTML/CSS/JS stack. That's why Adobe has made a major strategic shift to become the tooling leader in the HTML stack. But that doesn't mean that you should stop using Flex/ActionScript/FlashPlayer right now. Many folks who work with HTML/CSS/JS, even using the many libraries and development methodologies available for it, still feel like the Flex paradigm is superior. Apparently, even Google agrees because they are trying to create their own version of that paradigm with DART. While translated code is never as good, the productivity advantages of a better paradigm have been pretty much proven to be worth it, otherwise, Flex wouldn't have been that successful either since MXML isn't as efficient as pure ActionScript, and Google wouldn't have invested so much in writing their website logic in Java and/or Google Closure and/or DART. There is general support in the Apache Flex project for exploring ways of using the Flex paradigm to create HTML5 apps. Those working on the project are motivated to future-proof their investment in Flex. I don't see any technical issue blocking us from translating the paradigm to HTML5, and I invite all those who like the Flex paradigm to participate. But at the same time, there is lots of work to be done, lots of solutions to be built, and lots of money to be made on the Flex/AS/FP stack while we wait for the HTML5 stack to deliver on its promises.
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives
Well Ron, I don't agree with you. There is a difference between a reality and our own perception. I have seen a huge demand for flex based solution in Education (hmh, piersons) Finance (j p morgon, boa) Healthcare (hospira) Entertainment (directv) Ecommerce ( eBay ) and the list goes on and on... If as of today companies decide to change the strategy and port all the existing flex based application into HTML 5, then it would take around 5 years to do so as HTML 5 is still not mature for web and desktop. Check the percent of browser which support HTML 5. N what about desktop apps that are so beautifully created using adobe air. My personal thought is that some people are trying to take advantage of this bad rumours and advertising the dead tools which were existed for years. Please be patience and watch the change. N Stop spreading the rumours. Regards Rishi Tandon Software Development Adviser Flex Sent from my iPad On 13-Jan-2012, at 7:40 AM, Ron G rgri...@sinclairoil.com wrote: So, I think we have a similar vision for where things are going with respect to Adobe supporting HTML5 for the enterprise. But, I fail to see why Flex and FlashBuilder would have any part of that. Why not just fall back to your excellent product, Dreamweaver, and enhance it as the IDE for building HTML5 style web applications? No translation is then required. I too like the FlashBuilder/Flex paradigm for development. But, it seems to me that, sooner or later, what you end up with is the FlashBuilder paradigm that allows the user to code with a pseudo OO type of HTML5 as an alternative option to MXML and AS3, since we agree that it's not the translation from as3 to HTML5 that makes sense, but the paradigm itself. As for that doesn't mean you should stop using Flex/ActionScript/FlashPlayer right now, I would disagree. Over the past dozen years, I have already gone through 4 generations of web architecture: 1) CGI 2) server side XSLT transformation rendering a DHTML web page for client side 3) Flash 2004 until Adobe abandoned the push for developers to use Flash for applications and created... 4) Flex I would like to settle upon a single client-side technology that I can rely upon to be here in 15 years. Novell and Adobe have failed me in this regard. The only piece of my stack to not drop the ball on me is Java, which is why we are going with a Java based framework where the UI logic can reside server side. Do you know how hard it is to hire someone that can come in and be competent in all 4 of my web architecture generations? Very difficult. So, it's better to stop developing in Flex now so that I have less older generation architectures to eventually convert to ZKoss. Once that is done, finding someone who can help maintain all of our projects becomes a much easier task. Anyway, I very much appreciate hearing from an Adobe Flex SDK staff member. You have helped clarify that the direction I am taking is the right one. Hopefully, it's convinced a few others to not waste time writing in a technology that will one day require migration of an even greater backlog of projects to their inevitably new chosen technology stack. Ron --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Alex Harui aharui@... wrote: I'm not in disagreement that in the long term, the advantages of Flex/ActionScript/FlashPlayer will be diminished by advances in the HTML/CSS/JS stack. That's why Adobe has made a major strategic shift to become the tooling leader in the HTML stack. But that doesn't mean that you should stop using Flex/ActionScript/FlashPlayer right now. Many folks who work with HTML/CSS/JS, even using the many libraries and development methodologies available for it, still feel like the Flex paradigm is superior. Apparently, even Google agrees because they are trying to create their own version of that paradigm with DART. While translated code is never as good, the productivity advantages of a better paradigm have been pretty much proven to be worth it, otherwise, Flex wouldn't have been that successful either since MXML isn't as efficient as pure ActionScript, and Google wouldn't have invested so much in writing their website logic in Java and/or Google Closure and/or DART. There is general support in the Apache Flex project for exploring ways of using the Flex paradigm to create HTML5 apps. Those working on the project are motivated to future-proof their investment in Flex. I don't see any technical issue blocking us from translating the paradigm to HTML5, and I invite all those who like the Flex paradigm to participate. But at the same time, there is lots of work to be done, lots of solutions to be built, and lots of money to be made on the Flex/AS/FP stack while we wait for the HTML5 stack to deliver on its promises.
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives
Hi All, someone said adobe will not support flex in 5 to 10 years time and hence it poses a threat to flex developers. I beg to deffer because we need to clearly distinct a vendor from her products. A vendor changes focus to another phase of technology does not mean the vendor will outrightly discard her old and stable products.Its discouraging though that flex will not practically evolve to a better framework if adobe denies support in the nearest future but the consolation is the relative strength,robustness and stability of the framework when compared with other RIAs If technologies like cobol, powerbuilder,Vb6, classic ASP (though not RIAs) are still existing in the industry even though they are no longer in vogue i dont see a framework that is rich, stable ,platform independent and shows cross browser compatibility face out in the market at all. Look, i cant imagine a standard browser (in existence or still to come) that will deny compatibility with flash and yet expect to be widely used? No browser vendor will shoot herself on the leg by taking such a weak strategy. If you see a possible end for flex, what would you say of silverlight? (lol) Yet silverlight users are optimistic that Microsoft will find a way to integrate the framework to all other browsers The advent of RIAs addresses a critical need that is so significant, it saves you from the hassles of html/JS/CSS in the areas of presentation consistency across browsers and business security (though .swf files can be decompiled but its not a piece of cake) and i strongly believe flex is the most powerful RIA in the market, i cant even compare zkoss with it. Such frameworks are not abandoned, they come to stay !!! Warm Regards Tunde Majolagbe +2348028320370, 018782170. *Exchange a Dollar, we still have ONE each, exchange an idea, we have TWO each. *Calm Down!!! It’s just a mirage, like other worries it will soon fade away. From: Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 12 January 2012, 16:19 Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives I’ve never used COBOL, but I haven’t heard anyone say they really liked working in with it. That’s not true for Flex so even if it gets marginalized because it always remains locked to ActionScript and FlashPlayer, it may not be the subject of cursing. I’m not in disagreement that in the long term, the advantages of Flex/ActionScript/FlashPlayer will be diminished by advances in the HTML/CSS/JS stack. That’s why Adobe has made a major strategic shift to become the tooling leader in the HTML stack. But that doesn’t mean that you should stop using Flex/ActionScript/FlashPlayer right now. Many folks who work with HTML/CSS/JS, even using the many libraries and development methodologies available for it, still feel like the Flex paradigm is superior. Apparently, even Google agrees because they are trying to create their own version of that paradigm with DART. While translated code is never as good, the productivity advantages of a better paradigm have been pretty much proven to be worth it, otherwise, Flex wouldn’t have been that successful either since MXML isn’t as efficient as pure ActionScript, and Google wouldn’t have invested so much in writing their website logic in Java and/or Google Closure and/or DART. There is general support in the Apache Flex project for exploring ways of using the Flex paradigm to create HTML5 apps. Those working on the project are motivated to future-proof their investment in Flex. I don’t see any technical issue blocking us from translating the paradigm to HTML5, and I invite all those who like the Flex paradigm to participate. But at the same time, there is lots of work to be done, lots of solutions to be built, and lots of money to be made on the Flex/AS/FP stack while we wait for the HTML5 stack to deliver on its promises. On 1/12/12 3:37 PM, Ron G rgri...@sinclairoil.com wrote: I think you make my point for me by comparing the future of Flex to COBOL. Yes, it's still around, but we all wish it wasn't and curse it everytime we have to deal with it. As you say, it is hard to get out. So, yes, I still have projects written in Flex that will undoubtedly continue to run for years to come. But, it's hardly a justification for continuing to develop in COBOL...er, uh, I mean Flex. As you say, the need for Flash in the browser will likely diminish. Again, you help make my point against using Flex or FlashBuilder. I find it amusing that some have suggested that Flex and FlashBuilder could be retooled to render HTML5 pages. It confounds me as to why I would want to write MXML and AS3 so it can be translated to HTML and JS. If that is the desired end product, then I suggest developers just develop in HTML and JS to begin with. Translated code is never as efficient as code specifically written
[flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives
Rishi Tandon, Seems to me, from your signature, that you have an invested interest in Flex continuing. I would say that makes it difficult for you to see the difference between a reality and our own perception, as you so aptly put it. The least Adobe could do, after kicking Flex out to go live with the neighbor is be honest with their customers and say, We recommend that you stop developing in Flex because targeting web applications for the Flashplayer is a dead-end endeavor. We recommend that you begin any new projects (not already in progress) in HTML5 or another technology. Instead, being embarrassed at pulling the rug out from under their developer base, they feed them the lie that they're going to be there for the Flex developers in the long haul. Anyone with reading comprehension knows such a declaration, in light of other statements from Adobe, is a request that we practice cognitive dissonance voluntarily. Flee maya, Rishi. Ron --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Rishi Tandon rishitandon123@... wrote: Well Ron, I don't agree with you. There is a difference between a reality and our own perception. I have seen a huge demand for flex based solution in Education (hmh, piersons) Finance (j p morgon, boa) Healthcare (hospira) Entertainment (directv) Ecommerce ( eBay ) and the list goes on and on... If as of today companies decide to change the strategy and port all the existing flex based application into HTML 5, then it would take around 5 years to do so as HTML 5 is still not mature for web and desktop. Check the percent of browser which support HTML 5. N what about desktop apps that are so beautifully created using adobe air. My personal thought is that some people are trying to take advantage of this bad rumours and advertising the dead tools which were existed for years. Please be patience and watch the change. N Stop spreading the rumours. Regards Rishi Tandon Software Development Adviser Flex Sent from my iPad
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives
Flex and FlashBuilder are not part of Adobe’s HTML strategy per-se. FlashBuilder is being directed towards Gaming in Flash, Flex is being donated to the community. It is the community that has lots of investment in the Flex/AS/FP stack that are looking reworking the Flex paradigm to output to the HTML/CSS/JS stack. Meanwhile Adobe is not only updating Dreamweaver (see the PhoneGap features added in 5.5) but also looking at new tools for new development methodologies. While classic Java has been around for a while, and HTML/CSS/JS will likely meet your 15 year requirement, the question remains whether you will be willing to use more efficient and powerful development frameworks and methodologies over those years. If you don’t, you might lose competitive advantage as your competition gets their products finished better or faster, but if you do, you run the risk of choosing a new set of tools that turns out not to have lasting power. Tough call, no right answer, the choice is yours. It looks like the Apache Flex folks are going to try to provide one of those new sets of tools by making it possible to use the Flex paradigm for the HTML stack. On 1/12/12 6:10 PM, Ron G rgri...@sinclairoil.com wrote: So, I think we have a similar vision for where things are going with respect to Adobe supporting HTML5 for the enterprise. But, I fail to see why Flex and FlashBuilder would have any part of that. Why not just fall back to your excellent product, Dreamweaver, and enhance it as the IDE for building HTML5 style web applications? No translation is then required. I too like the FlashBuilder/Flex paradigm for development. But, it seems to me that, sooner or later, what you end up with is the FlashBuilder paradigm that allows the user to code with a pseudo OO type of HTML5 as an alternative option to MXML and AS3, since we agree that it's not the translation from as3 to HTML5 that makes sense, but the paradigm itself. As for that doesn't mean you should stop using Flex/ActionScript/FlashPlayer right now, I would disagree. Over the past dozen years, I have already gone through 4 generations of web architecture: 1) CGI 2) server side XSLT transformation rendering a DHTML web page for client side 3) Flash 2004 until Adobe abandoned the push for developers to use Flash for applications and created... 4) Flex I would like to settle upon a single client-side technology that I can rely upon to be here in 15 years. Novell and Adobe have failed me in this regard. The only piece of my stack to not drop the ball on me is Java, which is why we are going with a Java based framework where the UI logic can reside server side. Do you know how hard it is to hire someone that can come in and be competent in all 4 of my web architecture generations? Very difficult. So, it's better to stop developing in Flex now so that I have less older generation architectures to eventually convert to ZKoss. Once that is done, finding someone who can help maintain all of our projects becomes a much easier task. Anyway, I very much appreciate hearing from an Adobe Flex SDK staff member. You have helped clarify that the direction I am taking is the right one. Hopefully, it's convinced a few others to not waste time writing in a technology that will one day require migration of an even greater backlog of projects to their inevitably new chosen technology stack. Ron --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com , Alex Harui aharui@... wrote: I'm not in disagreement that in the long term, the advantages of Flex/ActionScript/FlashPlayer will be diminished by advances in the HTML/CSS/JS stack. That's why Adobe has made a major strategic shift to become the tooling leader in the HTML stack. But that doesn't mean that you should stop using Flex/ActionScript/FlashPlayer right now. Many folks who work with HTML/CSS/JS, even using the many libraries and development methodologies available for it, still feel like the Flex paradigm is superior. Apparently, even Google agrees because they are trying to create their own version of that paradigm with DART. While translated code is never as good, the productivity advantages of a better paradigm have been pretty much proven to be worth it, otherwise, Flex wouldn't have been that successful either since MXML isn't as efficient as pure ActionScript, and Google wouldn't have invested so much in writing their website logic in Java and/or Google Closure and/or DART. There is general support in the Apache Flex project for exploring ways of using the Flex paradigm to create HTML5 apps. Those working on the project are motivated to future-proof their investment in Flex. I don't see any technical issue blocking us from translating the paradigm to HTML5, and I invite all those who like the Flex paradigm to participate. But at the same time, there is lots of work to be done, lots of solutions to be
[flexcoders] Re: Flex alternatives
I have used Flex since 2006, and I have used ZKoss within the last year. I can tell you that the learning curve of ZKoss is much lower than Flex, and the development cycle is even faster. In your spare time, if you're curious like me and like to check out different technologies, give it a whirl, just so you'll have a good comparison. I think you'll be impressed - even if you don't ever use it for a project. I think you'll agree that HTML/CSS/JS is not a faster development environment, regardless of IDE. Would truly love to hear your assessment of it at some point. Don't get me wrong. I was always a big fan of Flex and touted its virtues whenever I could over the past several years. So, I have nothing against it. I'll be using it for years as I maintain existing projects written in Flex. But, with respect, I think you do a disservice to continue to tell developers to use Flex. You are only telling them to build a backlog of projects that will have to be converted one day. But, I understand you work for Adobe and can't very well say exactly what you think developers should do. Ron --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Alex Harui aharui@... wrote: Flex and FlashBuilder are not part of Adobe's HTML strategy per-se. FlashBuilder is being directed towards Gaming in Flash, Flex is being donated to the community. It is the community that has lots of investment in the Flex/AS/FP stack that are looking reworking the Flex paradigm to output to the HTML/CSS/JS stack. Meanwhile Adobe is not only updating Dreamweaver (see the PhoneGap features added in 5.5) but also looking at new tools for new development methodologies. While classic Java has been around for a while, and HTML/CSS/JS will likely meet your 15 year requirement, the question remains whether you will be willing to use more efficient and powerful development frameworks and methodologies over those years. If you don't, you might lose competitive advantage as your competition gets their products finished better or faster, but if you do, you run the risk of choosing a new set of tools that turns out not to have lasting power. Tough call, no right answer, the choice is yours. It looks like the Apache Flex folks are going to try to provide one of those new sets of tools by making it possible to use the Flex paradigm for the HTML stack.
