[flexcoders] Re: Brocade Case Study
Dave Thanks for your reply, I like your front to back approach as it enables you to go out and generate customer awarness whilst the product is still in development. It sounds like you are alone in your front to back design, what are the objections to it? Mike --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Dave Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It can be difficult because the devil is often in the details. What we do with our clients is what we refer to as a Model Design. In the MD we develop the entire user interface, bind to static data, include a functional spec, data model, test plan and a project plan. Its the project plan you really need to figure out the engire cost. We've done quite a few of these and they are very popular. Thats because you not only have a price, but every pre-cursor you need to kick off developing the application the next morning. I will tell you that until you work through all the validations, data requirements, flow, security, etc all your estimates will me moot. Take Brocade as an example. Where is the data coming from? How real time is it? How much EAI is involved. Is the data model existing? How about the SOA? What platform? How stringent is the security, etc. In any case, I wish I could give you a side of the barn estimate. This is why we push so hard for folks to push through the front-to-back LookFirst Model Design kind of approach to developing RIA's. We know they work and can point to real proof. -- Dave Wolf Cynergy Systems, Inc. Macromedia Flex Alliance Partner http://www.cynergysystems.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Office: 866-CYNERGY --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, michael457728 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can anyone give me an idea how long it would take and what budget you would need to have an app like the Brocade link below developed? http://flexapps.macromedia.com/flex/brocade/app.mxml I realise that its a difficult question but I just want to get a gut feeling for the size of cash you would guys think it would need. Thanks Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/nhFolB/TM ~- -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[flexcoders] Re: Brocade Case Study
Ya know, its funny. As developers this isnt a value you think of first hand, but I have to saw clients love that they get a demonstrable product very early in the development cycle. Now they are out there generating leads and revenue before the offering is even complete. There are others who also espouse a similar approach. One of them that comes to mind is Jason Fried of 37 signals. He refers to a similar approach as being top down but its basically the same idea. Drive requirements out of the user experience and get that experience into the users hands very early in the process. He has a nice podcast on this here. http://www.itconversations.com/shows/detail471.html So yes this is not a common approach but you will find other thought leaders such as 37 signals (probobly one of the best user experience groups around) who are of a like mind. Our approach comes from melding together a bunch of experience from a bunch of our folks who come from some pretty major development firms (Microsoft, Oracle, Sybase, IBM, BAH, Staples.com, etc). I like to think of it as brain stew wink -- Dave Wolf Cynergy Systems, Inc. Macromedia Flex Alliance Partner http://www.cynergysystems.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Office: 866-CYNERGY --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, michael457728 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave Thanks for your reply, I like your front to back approach as it enables you to go out and generate customer awarness whilst the product is still in development. It sounds like you are alone in your front to back design, what are the objections to it? Mike --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Dave Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It can be difficult because the devil is often in the details. What we do with our clients is what we refer to as a Model Design. In the MD we develop the entire user interface, bind to static data, include a functional spec, data model, test plan and a project plan. Its the project plan you really need to figure out the engire cost. We've done quite a few of these and they are very popular. Thats because you not only have a price, but every pre-cursor you need to kick off developing the application the next morning. I will tell you that until you work through all the validations, data requirements, flow, security, etc all your estimates will me moot. Take Brocade as an example. Where is the data coming from? How real time is it? How much EAI is involved. Is the data model existing? How about the SOA? What platform? How stringent is the security, etc. In any case, I wish I could give you a side of the barn estimate. This is why we push so hard for folks to push through the front-to-back LookFirst Model Design kind of approach to developing RIA's. We know they work and can point to real proof. -- Dave Wolf Cynergy Systems, Inc. Macromedia Flex Alliance Partner http://www.cynergysystems.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Office: 866-CYNERGY --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, michael457728 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can anyone give me an idea how long it would take and what budget you would need to have an app like the Brocade link below developed? http://flexapps.macromedia.com/flex/brocade/app.mxml I realise that its a difficult question but I just want to get a gut feeling for the size of cash you would guys think it would need. Thanks Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job). Welcome to the Sweet Life. http://us.click.yahoo.com/A77XvD/vlQLAA/TtwFAA/nhFolB/TM ~- -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Re: Brocade Case Study
37 Signals is great for UI, no doubt, but those boys seem to have a serious antiFlash angle on web applications. -Original Message- ... So yes this is not a common approach but you will find other thought leaders such as 37 signals (probobly one of the best user experience groups around) who are of a like mind. ... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job). Welcome to the Sweet Life. http://us.click.yahoo.com/A77XvD/vlQLAA/TtwFAA/nhFolB/TM ~- -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[flexcoders] Re: Brocade Case Study
Yup, no doubts. Not everyone can be totally enlightened smile. He just wanted to know if other folks ever approached development using a front-to-back style other then us and was it common. No one likes to feel like they are too much off on a flyer. I can dig that. The net-net though is there are a few others who take a similar approach. I wouldnt call it common, but I would say it has a following from other thought leaders in rich app development. -- Dave Wolf Cynergy Systems, Inc. Macromedia Flex Alliance Partner http://www.cynergysystems.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Office: 866-CYNERGY --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Tim Beynart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 37 Signals is great for UI, no doubt, but those boys seem to have a serious antiFlash angle on web applications. -Original Message- ... So yes this is not a common approach but you will find other thought leaders such as 37 signals (probobly one of the best user experience groups around) who are of a like mind. ... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/nhFolB/TM ~- -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[flexcoders] Re: Brocade Case Study
It can be difficult because the devil is often in the details. What we do with our clients is what we refer to as a Model Design. In the MD we develop the entire user interface, bind to static data, include a functional spec, data model, test plan and a project plan. Its the project plan you really need to figure out the engire cost. We've done quite a few of these and they are very popular. Thats because you not only have a price, but every pre-cursor you need to kick off developing the application the next morning. I will tell you that until you work through all the validations, data requirements, flow, security, etc all your estimates will me moot. Take Brocade as an example. Where is the data coming from? How real time is it? How much EAI is involved. Is the data model existing? How about the SOA? What platform? How stringent is the security, etc. In any case, I wish I could give you a side of the barn estimate. This is why we push so hard for folks to push through the front-to-back LookFirst Model Design kind of approach to developing RIA's. We know they work and can point to real proof. -- Dave Wolf Cynergy Systems, Inc. Macromedia Flex Alliance Partner http://www.cynergysystems.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Office: 866-CYNERGY --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, michael457728 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can anyone give me an idea how long it would take and what budget you would need to have an app like the Brocade link below developed? http://flexapps.macromedia.com/flex/brocade/app.mxml I realise that its a difficult question but I just want to get a gut feeling for the size of cash you would guys think it would need. Thanks Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Most low income households are not online. Help bridge the digital divide today! http://us.click.yahoo.com/cd_AJB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/nhFolB/TM ~- -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
