Re: [Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems

2007-01-04 Thread KA5MIR
YES! Look at the Tivo. Standalone box. Completely plug & play. Linux on the inside. Output to standard audio and video jacks. Network GUI. Near 0 maintenance. "It Just Works" For the SDR, a separate transmit/rf module should be available but I would expect a lot of these to end up being

Re: [Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems

2007-01-01 Thread Robert McGwier
Robert McGwier wrote: > Remember how things went after we switched to svn distribution of the > alpha code? There was almost an insurrection because people thought > that the "regular releases" of intermediate steps would stop. This > is similar in that it is outside of people's experience z

Re: [Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems

2007-01-01 Thread KD5NWA
Jerry Harley wrote: > Mike Naruta wrote: >> Most of the customer base is Windows. >> >> It would be nice to thumb our noses at >> Vista by having the Linux version though. >> >> I've been switching my PCs over to Linux. >> >> >> Mike - AA8K >> In the case of Ubuntu, just install it and when it see

Re: [Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems

2007-01-01 Thread Jerry Harley
Mike Naruta wrote: > Most of the customer base is Windows. > > It would be nice to thumb our noses at > Vista by having the Linux version though. > > I've been switching my PCs over to Linux. > > > Mike - AA8K > > > Frank Brickle wrote: > > > ___ > FlexRa

Re: [Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems

2007-01-01 Thread Robert McGwier
Remember how things went after we switched to svn distribution of the alpha code? There was almost an insurrection because people thought that the "regular releases" of intermediate steps would stop. This is similar in that it is outside of people's experience zone rather than hard. With t

Re: [Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems

2007-01-01 Thread Larry Loen
Ed Haskell wrote: >It is possible today to purchase, at WalMart among other places, a PC >complete with preinstalled Linux for less than the purchase price of Vista. >Why not offer one of these with everything including PowerSDR preinstalled >and configured to work as a stand alone 'appliance' for

Re: [Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems

2007-01-01 Thread Ed Haskell
I am a Linux user. However I completely understand why most Windoze users are unwilling to climb a very steep learning curve. The investment in time and frustration is simply not worth it for most people. It's like asking a prospective ham to pass an entry level license exam that is comprised of th

Re: [Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems

2007-01-01 Thread KD5NWA
Ed Haskell wrote: > It is possible today to purchase, at WalMart among other places, a PC > complete with preinstalled Linux for less than the purchase price of > Vista. Why not offer one of these with everything including PowerSDR > preinstalled and configured to work as a stand alone 'applianc

Re: [Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems

2007-01-01 Thread Ed Haskell
It is possible today to purchase, at WalMart among other places, a PC complete with preinstalled Linux for less than the purchase price of Vista. Why not offer one of these with everything including PowerSDR preinstalled and configured to work as a stand alone 'appliance' for those who don't yet wa

Re: [Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems

2007-01-01 Thread KD5NWA
Frank Brickle wrote: > Brad A. Steffler wrote: > >> ... the conversion of SDR to >> Linux is of paramount importance... > > This has been the view of some of the developers since the > beginning. That's why in reality much of the critical development > process has followed the reverse path: do t

Re: [Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems

2007-01-01 Thread Mike Naruta
Most of the customer base is Windows. It would be nice to thumb our noses at Vista by having the Linux version though. I've been switching my PCs over to Linux. Mike - AA8K Frank Brickle wrote: ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz h

Re: [Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems

2007-01-01 Thread Frank Brickle
Brad A. Steffler wrote: > ... the conversion of SDR to > Linux is of paramount importance... This has been the view of some of the developers since the beginning. That's why in reality much of the critical development process has followed the reverse path: do the development first under Linux, t

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Update from Phil C.

2007-01-01 Thread Robert McGwier
Yes. Phil explicitly states on his blog site that he is supporting XP and Vista only. Bob Neal Campbell K3NC wrote: > Given the current state of software, are there any incompatibilities > with Win2K other than Phil's planned development of vSound? I have > been struggling with WGA on severa

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Update from Phil C.

2007-01-01 Thread Neal Campbell K3NC
Given the current state of software, are there any incompatibilities with Win2K other than Phil's planned development of vSound? I have been struggling with WGA on several machines here, made the stupid mistake of paying the 160 ransom to Microsoft to see if I could get a reg nr that would

[Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems

2006-12-31 Thread Brad A. Steffler
Re: Bob McGwier's post: With the advent of the twisted /trusted computing /and the DRM signed driver requirements as well as new hardware requirements for Vista compatible boards, we may be in deep weeds in the future. The great strength of Software Defined Radio can also be its Achilles heel, i

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Update from Phil C.

2006-12-31 Thread Robert McGwier
Tim Ellison wrote: > >From Phil's blog... > > vSound Status > > I have been able to get a prototype of the vSound driver to work on > Windows Vista beta. I am now waiting until the official release of Vista > This is misspelled. It is Windows VIRUS beta. ;-). Actually, this is good news

[Flexradio] vSound Update from Phil C.

2006-12-31 Thread Tim Ellison
>From Phil's blog... vSound Status I have been able to get a prototype of the vSound driver to work on Windows Vista beta. I am now waiting until the official release of Vista to continue development on a driver that will work on both XP and Vista. As it looks now, vSound will support Vista and X

Re: [Flexradio] Vsound Update

2006-10-03 Thread James Courtier-Dutton
Tim Ellison wrote: > OK, folks. Listen up. I have the 411 on Vsound. > > > > First off, a bit of patience is in order. Rome wasn't built in a day. > Neither will Vsound > > > > I had a chance to exchange a few e-mails with Phil regarding the current > state of Vsound development. Just b

Re: [Flexradio] Vsound Update

2006-10-02 Thread Robert McGwier
Tim Ellison wrote: > OK, folks. Listen up. I have the 411 on Vsound. > > Now there you go again, shedding more light than heat on a subject contrary to the clear requirements of a hobby that has the Alligator Net and Flex Radio under the same tent. You are going to have to stop doing thes

Re: [Flexradio] Vsound Update

2006-10-02 Thread Ken Klein
8:26 PM To: Flex Radio Subject: [Flexradio] Vsound Update Importance: High OK, folks. Listen up. I have the 411 on Vsound. First off, a bit of patience is in order. Rome wasn't built in a day. Neither will Vsound I had a chance to exchange a few e-mails with Phil regarding the current

[Flexradio] Vsound Update

2006-10-02 Thread Tim Ellison
OK, folks. Listen up. I have the 411 on Vsound. First off, a bit of patience is in order. Rome wasn't built in a day. Neither will Vsound I had a chance to exchange a few e-mails with Phil regarding the current state of Vsound development. Just because you have not heard anything or see

Re: [Flexradio] vSOUND

2006-08-04 Thread Radio Station W5AMI
On 8/4/06, Philip Covington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't > need a bunch of guys crying like babies when their machines blue > screen because I rushed something out... Believe me, I learned that > lesson with vCOM. > Amen Phil! Being a programmer for over 20 years, I can vouch for that po

Re: [Flexradio] vSOUND

2006-08-04 Thread dave . g0dja
>-- Original Message -- >Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 20:36:40 -0400 >From: "Philip Covington" > >The answer is: It will get done when I get time to finish it. I don't >need a bunch of guys crying like babies when their machines blue >screen because I rushed something out... Believe me, I learned that >

Re: [Flexradio] vSOUND

2006-08-04 Thread Philip Covington
On 8/4/06, Dave Ackrill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I remember sending of a donation in the rush of excitement that was > generated by the idea of what seemed to be a software sound card > connector which would possibly do for digital mode program connections > what vCOM does for other rig control

Re: [Flexradio] vSOUND

2006-08-04 Thread Cecil Bayona
On Friday 04 August 2006 17:54, Dave Ackrill wrote: > I remember sending of a donation in the rush of excitement that was > generated by the idea of what seemed to be a software sound card > connector which would possibly do for digital mode program connections > what vCOM does for other rig contro

Re: [Flexradio] vSOUND

2006-08-04 Thread Mike Naruta
I think that Phil is a bit busy right now with the HPSDR stuff. He is making strides on that. I suspect that when he catches his breath, he will pursue vSOUND. I am eager for it as well. I want to get going on digital. Phil turns out excellent work, it will be worth waiting for. Mike - AA8K

[Flexradio] vSOUND

2006-08-04 Thread Dave Ackrill
I remember sending of a donation in the rush of excitement that was generated by the idea of what seemed to be a software sound card connector which would possibly do for digital mode program connections what vCOM does for other rig control programs like Ham Radio Deluxe. I appreciate that Phil

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Goal Update ... N+1

2006-06-06 Thread Morseman
Decided to put my £16 in as well. (That's $30 US :-) ) -- Dave (G0DJA) ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex

Re: [Flexradio] VSound question

2006-06-05 Thread Mike Naruta
Hi Ken, You can visit Phil's contribution page at: < http://www.philcovington.com/SDR/donation.html > or if you want to log into your PayPal directly, his PayPal e-mail is: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike - AA8K Kenneth Golubski wrote: > Hi Guys > > Missed a whole bunch of the weekend post

Re: [Flexradio] vSOUND Development Starts June 5, 2006!

2006-06-05 Thread Philip Covington
On 6/5/06, KD5NWA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That is why Vista is not in my horizon, I'm in the process of > switching all my PC's to Linux so I will be very interested in > release 17 of the software so I can completely move over to Linux. > > The only PC I foresee for a time staying in Windows

[Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Goal Update ... N+1

2006-06-05 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi Phil, paid $30 via Paypal last night. 73s Karl DK2ZZ -- DK2ZZ Member of ARRL, BCC, DARC, DRCG, GDXF SysOp of DB0SUE-7 DX-Cluster telnet to db0sue-7.ath.cx Port 8000 http://www.drcg.de http://www.dk2zz.de ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-

Re: [Flexradio] vSOUND Development Starts June 5, 2006!

2006-06-05 Thread KD5NWA
That is why Vista is not in my horizon, I'm in the process of switching all my PC's to Linux so I will be very interested in release 17 of the software so I can completely move over to Linux. The only PC I foresee for a time staying in Windows is my Video editing PC. So a Linux port of the VSou

[Flexradio] VSound question

2006-06-05 Thread Kenneth Golubski
Hi Guys Missed a whole bunch of the weekend posts.I see there is a collection for the development of sound software. Where are we sending it to via paypal or mail? Thanks, Ken - N8KJGThanks, Ken Visit: Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely i

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Goal Update ... N+1

2006-06-05 Thread Giuseppe Campana
Hi Phil !! I just sent in $30.00 via PayPal Thank you A++ 73 Beppe IK3VIG ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.co

Re: [Flexradio] vSOUND Development Starts June 5, 2006!

2006-06-04 Thread Paul Shaffer
I would prefer this to be an open source project, something on sourceforge for example. It would be nice if it would target XP and Vista, and be compatible with vs2005. I haven't built a driver in 10 years but I assume you would use visual studio and your driver starter kit or sample code of your

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Goal Update ... N+1

2006-06-04 Thread Wallace Watson
HI All, What the heck, I am in via PayPal for $30 Wally, M0ZAZ -- Wallace Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Croughton RAF Base - England -- ___ FlexRadio

[Flexradio] Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Make it Happen Now!

2006-06-04 Thread kl7jdr
Please count me in also. I am really enjoying the vCOM, will look forward to the vSOUND. 73's , Bruce KL7JDR Bruce W. Mills P.O. Box 1500 Soldotna, Alaska 99669 - USA (907)262-4373 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@f

[Flexradio] Vsound, cant wait !

2006-06-04 Thread inspections
Phil, thanks for your efforts , $30 US on its way through the ether from down under, keep up the excellent work 73 Keith VK6XH -- Keith Bainbridge Air Receiver Inspection Services Unfired Pressure Vessel Inspections Safety Relief Valve Repairs. Mob: 0419 901 539 Fax: 08 9379

[Flexradio] vSOUND Development Starts June 5, 2006!

2006-06-04 Thread Philip Covington
Hi all, Wow, I just got back home from being out of town this Sunday and I find that the development fund goal for vSOUND has been met! I'd better get to work! Thanks to all who donated! You generosity has kick started this vSOUND project. My goal is to support MME, DS, ASIO, and WDM KS interf

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Make it Happen Now!

2006-06-04 Thread Ken Klein
iz Subject: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Make it Happen Now! OK. Looks like there is a lot of interest in getting vSound off the ground. So let's "put our $$ where our posts is." Phil states that there is a $500 target bounty for getting started. Phil, can you give us a

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Goal Update ... N+1

2006-06-04 Thread Everett Palmer
Hello, I just sent in $30.00. Everett, KG6RYB ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Hom

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Goal Update

2006-06-04 Thread N3EVL
June 04, 2006 4:12 PM > To: Edward J White; Philip Covington; FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz > Subject: Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Goal Update > > http://www.philcovington.com/SDR/donation.html > > > -Tim > --- > Tim Ellison ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) >

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Make it Happen Now!

2006-06-04 Thread Mark Gang
Hi Guys, I put in my $30. Mark N6SF ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http

[Flexradio] vSound Developement Fund

2006-06-04 Thread Edward J White
I am in and paid Great idea great group of people! Ed WA3BZT -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20060604/01593497/attachment.html ___ FlexRadio mailing list F

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Goal Update

2006-06-04 Thread Tim Ellison
; FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Subject: Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Goal Update What is the PayPal address to send the money Ed WA3BZT - Original Message - From: "Tim Ellison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Philip Covington" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Sunday

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Goal Update

2006-06-04 Thread Edward J White
What is the PayPal address to send the money Ed WA3BZT - Original Message - From: "Tim Ellison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Philip Covington" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:03 AM Subject: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Goal Update

[Flexradio] vSound development input

2006-06-04 Thread Tim Ellison
Phil has a blog for comments related to vSound if you want to share some ideas. http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=13992472&postID=1121784815792048 12 -Tim --- Tim Ellison Integrated Technical Services Apex, NC USA 919.674.0044 Ext. 25 /

Re: [Flexradio] VSound - Am I reading this wrong

2006-06-04 Thread Tim Ellison
) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KH6GMP Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 1:13 PM To: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Subject: [Flexradio] VSound - Am I reading this wrong I dont know but Phil's original post on VSound seemed to say he wasnt goi

[Flexradio] VSound - Am I reading this wrong

2006-06-04 Thread KH6GMP
I dont know but Phil's original post on VSound seemed to say he wasnt going to make it available like his vcom but he was going to sell it for slightly below the price of VAC. > I would be willing to write a Virtual Audio Cable driver (vSOUND) if > there is enough interest. It doubt that I would

[Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Initial funding Goal Achieved!

2006-06-04 Thread Tim Ellison
DING ..DING...DINGDING...DING...DING. Congratulations to all who so generously contributed to the target bounty for getting the vSound development effort funded! We have made our initial goal of raising $500 for the development effort to begin. All in less than 24 hours! If you haven't contr

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Goal Update

2006-06-04 Thread Richard Kronick
7;" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Goal Update > Tim/Phil > > I'm in! $30. > > Eric2 - AA4SW > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTE

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Make it Happen Now!

2006-06-04 Thread George Bennett
I'm in too! I've sent $30.00. George Bennett, K1GMB ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Goal Update

2006-06-04 Thread Eric Ellison
Tim/Phil I'm in! $30. Eric2 - AA4SW -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Ellison Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:03 AM To: Philip Covington; FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Subject: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Goal Update By my

[Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Goal Update

2006-06-04 Thread Tim Ellison
By my count, from the people who have responded on the reflector that said they have contributed and indicated a dollar amount, we have reached the $400 mark in less than 24 hours. That is 80% of the $500 target bounty for getting vSound development started. That is a fantastic response, but ther

[Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Make it Happen Now!

2006-06-04 Thread Norman Robbins
Many thanks to Phil for all the work he has done on Vcom and Vsound. My $30 paypal contribution is on the way. Norman W4HF ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archi

[Flexradio] Vsound

2006-06-04 Thread Jerry Harley
I haven't even tried the Vcom yet but I just PP $30 to the fund and look forward to the digital modes with SDR. I have not been on PSK since its first year of existance. Jerry Wa2tti ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.fle

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Make it Happen Now!

2006-06-04 Thread Mike Naruta
Hello Dave, Well, if N8VB writes vSOUND, it will get me off my behind to get going on digital, SSTV, and software CW modes. VCOM has not appealed to me because of the version issues and some of the problems, such as demo announcements in the audio after the user has paid. I even bought a third

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Make it Happen Now!

2006-06-04 Thread Morseman
Sorry, I sent this directly to Mel only, instead of to the list. Sorry Mel. Dave (G0DJA) On 04/06/06, Morseman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm interested in the vSound project, but not sure if it will be of > use to me or not. > I understand that it will provide an alternative to using two > s

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Make it Happen Now!

2006-06-03 Thread Mel Whitten
Yes, glad to see Phil consider this vSound as a project. I've also added $30 to the effort. Thanks, Phil. Mel, K0PFX - Original Message - From: "Tim Ellison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Philip Covington" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Saturday, June

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Make it Happen Now!

2006-06-03 Thread Dudley Hurry
Phil and Tim, I sent my $30 to help on the vSOUND development work.. I just don't see how Phil does all these things.. He must have a group of munchkins running around there. 73, Dudley WA5QPZ At 07:42 PM 6/3/2006 -0400, Tim Ellison wrote: >OK. Looks like there is a lot of interest in ge

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Make it Happen Now!

2006-06-03 Thread Ron Kolarik
Another $30 on the way..are we there yet? Ron K0IDT ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Flex

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Make it Happen Now!

2006-06-03 Thread Craig Monsen
Ok, Phil. I also put my money where my mouth is. $30.00 on the way via Paypal. Craig KC2LFI > My $30 is on the way too. > > Ed K5RJI > ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radi

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Make it Happen Now!

2006-06-03 Thread Ed Haskell
My $30 is on the way too. Ed K5RJI On 6/3/06, Lee A Crocker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The cash is in the ether. > > It's worth the donation just to give back for the > great vCOM program. > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mai

[Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Make it Happen Now!

2006-06-03 Thread Lee A Crocker
The cash is in the ether. It's worth the donation just to give back for the great vCOM program. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Make it Happen Now!

2006-06-03 Thread Mike Naruta
Si, Tim E., $37.73 PP for me, hee hee.-Mikeee Tim Ellison wrote: > OK. Looks like there is a lot of interest in getting vSound off the > ground. So let's "put our $$ where our posts is." Phil states that > there is a $500 target bounty for getting started. > > Phil, can you give us an id

Re: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Make it Happen Now!

2006-06-03 Thread Mark Amos
Okey Dokey - I just PayPal'ed $40. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Ellison Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 7:42 PM To: Philip Covington; FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz Subject: [Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Make it Happen Now

[Flexradio] vSound Development Fund - Make it Happen Now!

2006-06-03 Thread Tim Ellison
OK. Looks like there is a lot of interest in getting vSound off the ground. So let's "put our $$ where our posts is." Phil states that there is a $500 target bounty for getting started. Phil, can you give us an idea how far off we are from that goal so we can drum up and meet that goal. I ha