Re: [Flightgear-devel] Realistic daytime skycolor
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 18:25:31 +0100, Durk wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tuesday 22 November 2005 18:02, Curtis L. Olson wrote: Vassilii Khachaturov wrote: Like in the dawn screenshot where I tried to show that off; http://www.adeptopensource.co.uk/personal/fg/747-Heathrow-dawn_mo on.jpg [snip] I forget who posted this original 'dark' screen shot, but here's the issue, due to gamma differences, this image comes out completely black on my screen. From that standpoint, it's not a useful screen shot. Many people that download it are going to say, huh! This isn't an easy problem to circumvent because there is a wide swath of gamma configurations and monitors out there. But in this case, we simply need something with more light to make it widely useable. My old crt screen on my linux box had a pretty bad gamma curve, but it went down with a bang the day before yesterday. I just got back online with a brand new 19 TFT screen and now this screenshot looks really good. FWIW, isn't it possible to run the image through one of the ImageMagick tools to improve the gamma curves. Obviously, I'm biased because I like screenshots featuring the moon :-) ..looks like you're not alone, or should I see daaark red shadows? ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] OT: picture of two USAF thuderbirds in mirror formation
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 07:49:16 -0500, Ima wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Off topic, but something similar to this might make two interesting AI aircraft for around KSFO or KDCA or Nellis AFB, Nevada, USA where they're based. 8-) Best regards, Ima From netscape.com gallery: http://cdn-channels.netscape.com/gallery/i/p/popular112105/apohcomrr _AVIATION_NATIO_1B.jpg ..heh, reminds me of a couple of my buddies, they flew 2 Curare-20's on 25 or 40 power AFAIR, training for some air show, F3A mirror style. Worked all nicely until that last big nice lazy loop. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 16:42:24 +0100, Oliver wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I suggest to remove the SF bay scenery in the corresponding 10x10 scenery file. This allows us to place the SF bay, which comes allready with the base package, in the main scenery folder like all the other 10x10 chunks. ..good idea, and can it be combined with locally made stuff too? And when someone installs the corresponding scenery tile w130n30.tar.gz it won't overwrite the SF bay. ..why do (or don't?) we want this file overwritten? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Announcement: First TerraGear landcover database
On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:11:00 -0600, Curtis wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I should also point out that the next scenery build (which is happening concurrent to the v0.9.9 release and causing my head to spin 3x faster than normal (not factoring in beer)) will be based on this data export. ..how much size growth, compared to the (0.9.7?) last scenery? (url to the new?) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pending v0.9.9 release
On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 10:32:22 + (UTC), Martin wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Erik Hofman wrote: Martin Spott wrote: RANTWe know exactly this phenomenon for several years now and to my [...] supporters for this idea./RANT Guess why the next release is 0.9.9 and not 1.0 and why 1.0 is released early next year? ...some time after 0.9.10, 0.9.11, 0.9.12, 0.9.13... Yep, but sipmly _delaying_ the next release doesn't cure anything. This only makes sense if the developers agree on a feature freeze and announce a bugfix-only phase. ..or if it can be enforced somehow. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pending v0.9.9 release
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 03:24:21 +0200 (IST), Vassilii wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yep, but sipmly _delaying_ the next release doesn't cure anything. This only makes sense if the developers agree on a feature freeze and announce a bugfix-only phase. ..or if it can be enforced somehow. ;o) or that a separate branch is created for the feature freeze while the development continues at the trunk, with only hand-picked patches getting into the release branch... ...with some release dictator growling Test this! ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Announcement: First TerraGear landcover database
On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 19:48:37 -0600, Curtis wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..how much size growth, compared to the (0.9.7?) last scenery? (url to the new?) I haven't really started building a lot of tiles yet. I'm still hung up on a shapefile processing issue. Might be shade bigger, but I'm not expecting a huge difference ... ..thanks. :o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lightning
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 09:49:56 +0100, Erik wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Josh Babcock wrote: Dave Culp wrote: All you experienced modelers, please tell me, is this possible? Can you set a piece of a model to flash somewhat randomly using only XML animation code? I'm pretty sure you would need to have each t-storm running its own instance of a simple Nasal script. I remembered we've added random animations in the past and looking at the code, the times animation accept a random value. That said, I really think the AIThunderstorm calls should be without a visual model and should be called by the 3d clouds code and METAR weather code instead. ..attic candidate? Chances are I can use some of it to model these: http://flyingkettle.com/ and http://perso.wanadoo.fr/ballonsolaire/en-index.htm ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI Aircraft Models
On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 09:43:20 -0200, Rodrigo wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: There�s lot of flightplans for lots of carriers designed by indepedent simmers on usual flight sim sites: www.avsim.com , www.fsfreeware.com , www.flightsim.com so, no need for PAI flight plans. About models and flightplans, there�s a nice general aviation site on http://www.ultimatega.com/ Also, great jetliners models on http://www.ai-aardvark.com/ Although, in my opinion, would be better to keep low polygons on FlightGear... Not sure if it�s possible to convert on FlightGear, but SquawkBox and FSSinn programs have thousands of models. Finally, there�s a new group releasing complete packages of flightplans and models for FS: http://www.world-of-ai.com/ Don�t think would be a problem for them to allow to use in FlightGear. My 0,02 cents:-) .._using_ them is usually no problem, because their EULA contractual terms usually allow end users usage. ..our problem is when their terms clash with our GPL terms on distributing the source code and allowing commercial use. This is best solved with the authors using the GPL too, and they can dual license their stuff as they please. Groklaw.net has _plenty_ more. ..what's wrong with the GPL? Ask Microsoft as a freelance journalist on behalf of some news rag and smell the fear. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Buildings ?????
On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 16:15:22 +1030, George wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sat, 2005-11-05 at 05:02 +0100, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 14:03:10 -0800, Andy wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Mike Kopack wrote: It's not so much an issue of San Fran being BAD, it's just that KSFO is pretty far from downtown. We're talking about small slow-flying UAV's in my project (I'm using the Piper as a surrogate), so having to take off that far away means my demo is like 45 minutes long. As a left-field suggestion: how about defining the runways of the old NAS Alameda, which is just south of downtown Oakland and immediately across the bay from San Francisco. The base was closed in the mid 90's, I believe, and is now being converted into industrial loft space. But the runways are still there clear as day: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=37.786114,-122.318387spn=0.027226,0.028824t=khl=en The folks who like to play with the carrier aircraft probably wouldn't mind having this active, either. ..if it's modelled correctly historically, setting the date back a decade or so should make it active. Hmm, interesting idea.. Can you get the METAR data from a decade or so back in time? ..hmmm, I doubt that, but many countries do archive weather data, so we should at least be able generate it off those archives. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Buildings ?????
On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 15:40:08 +0100, Arnt wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 16:15:22 +1030, George wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sat, 2005-11-05 at 05:02 +0100, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 14:03:10 -0800, Andy wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Mike Kopack wrote: It's not so much an issue of San Fran being BAD, it's just that KSFO is pretty far from downtown. We're talking about small slow-flying UAV's in my project (I'm using the Piper as a surrogate), so having to take off that far away means my demo is like 45 minutes long. As a left-field suggestion: how about defining the runways of the old NAS Alameda, which is just south of downtown Oakland and immediately across the bay from San Francisco. The base was closed in the mid 90's, I believe, and is now being converted into industrial loft space. But the runways are still there clear as day: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=37.786114,-122.318387spn=0.027226,0.028824t=khl=en The folks who like to play with the carrier aircraft probably wouldn't mind having this active, either. ..if it's modelled correctly historically, setting the date back a decade or so should make it active. Hmm, interesting idea.. Can you get the METAR data from a decade or so back in time? ..hmmm, I doubt that, but many countries do archive weather data, so we should at least be able generate it off those archives. ..and at least Debian Sid offers these utilities: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/www/01-gas/fmb.no/gas $ apt-cache search METAR gkrellweather - A weather monitor plugin for GKrellM libgeo-metar-perl - Geo::METAR, Accessing Aviation Weather Information with Perl libmdsp-dev - METAR Decoder Software Package Library development files metar - utility to download/decode METAR reports php-services-weather - acts as an interface to various online weather-services python-pymetar - Python interface to METAR reports vdr-plugin-weather - Weather plugin for vdr wmweather - WindowMaker dockapp that shows your current weather -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Compiling FG on Suse
On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 11:16:53 -0500, Steve wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 02:22:55 -0600, you wrote: Steve, you seem to have the following missing. - C++ compiler - X delopment libraries and header files are missing - OpenGL libraries and header file Have you compiled something else other than FlightGear? Not on this installation. Everything has been installed through their package manager. I was focused on the GL library missing, but I will see if it has the C++ available. And the X development libraries. Could use a more specific message than missing X I thought it meant I hadn't go X up and running. I thought I had OpenGL support with the ATI drivers, control panel and etc. Maybe that is only direct graphics support, will look for OpenGL. ..MWAGI the X module you want is radeon. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Buildings?????
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 08:55:57 -0500, Josh wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Jim Wilson wrote: From: Mike Kopack snip Is there a way to get buildings to appear (like the wash monument, white house, pentagon, capital, etc.?) Did I load the scenery in wrong? Or is this just a glaring big black hole with the FG scenery (no building data.) I'd prefer to demonstrate somewhere other than San Fran. Just curious...what is wrong with San Francisco? There are all sorts of recognizable landmark details there and it is obviously ready to go. Best, Jim Too many hippies. They don't like to see that in government contracts :) ..just wait out this current neocon regime, the next team oughtta be less hostile. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Threading for SMP, boon or bane?
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:08:06 -0700, Andy wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Curtis L. Olson wrote: I would like to make a case for non-threading from the standpoint of simplicity. We have had (and probably still have) some extremely subtle and extremely difficult to track bugs in our threaded tile loader. I don't disagree at all. Everything you say is true, and a reason to avoid threading wherever possible. Naive thread architectures are invariably a disaster. But unfortunately the hardware world conspires against us -- SMP is rapidly becoming the rule rather than the exception for high performance desktops. Note that there are a few spots where we could split out separate threads in a relatively clean manner: + FDM: Put a lock around the input and output stages (or wrap them into an object that can be placed in a synchronized queue) and let the actual numerics work happen on a different CPU. The advantage here is that you can crank up the simulation rate quite a bit on SMP/multicore boxes, leading to (at least with YASim) more stable ground handling. ..and clusters. ;o) + Audio: drive the OpenAL thread with a simple command stream from the main loop. One many systems, this will (might, if OpenAL doesn't already do this) move the mixing off of the main CPU, which is good. Even better, it will decouple the audio stream from the main loop latency issues and make skips easier to handle. + Rendering: One idea here would be to clone a separate scene graph (just the non-leaf animation nodes, really) and let one thread (the renderer) draw it while another (the main loop) gets the next one ready for rendering. When done, you do a synchronized graph swap, or even triple-buffer it for higher throughput at the expense of latency. This would require significant surgery to the existing model/animation code (and, to a lesser extent, the GUI and tile code) to store the property values somewhere instead of reading them at render-time. ..can we get both multi screen wrap around cockpit style immersion movie theaters and formation flight? + Everything else: This thread would contain the existing main loop, and its basic structure wouldn't change. Note that this design allows threads live by relatively simple rules. The main loop doesn't change much except where direct calls are replaced by commands to be queued. And the worker threads all work only on their internal data; they don't need (and are forbidden) to touch external state like the property tree. The first two could be done with fairly minimal code, actually. The renderer changes would be more significant. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Driving real instruments.
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:59:31 +0100, Dave wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Just wondering if anyone (pos historically) has driven physical instruments using FlightGear on Linux. I'm thinking the analog variety (ASI AI ALT etc) from the likes of SimKits. Obviously the SimKits stuff couldn't work directly because their proprietary software to drive the CCU is for Windows and MSFS only. So are there, or have there been any examples of someone succesfully driving analog instruments using FlightGear on Linux? ..the closest thing I'm aware of this far, would be the Discovery TV show on Red Baron's (Richthofen) final dog fight, they used FG and a commercial FS (MSFS?) hooked up together. I think Michael Selig at UIUC was involved, Michael, Curt? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Winter Textures - screenshot
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 23:11:19 +0200, Oliver wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Sunday 23 October 2005 22:16, Ralf Gerlich wrote:
Hi,
Arnt Karlsen schrieb:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:27:56 +0200, Ralf wrote in message
I'd say we need different texture-names for lakes which freeze in
the winter and those that don't.
..aye. Delay lake freezing around river mouths and speed thawing
there, the currents. We want Artic ocean 'n bay 'n fjord freezing
too? ;o)
Erm, ok...working on custom scenery all the time I forgot that the
VMAP0 data does not give us this information. %-)
Does VMAP0 data has different data for salt water and freshwater?
If yes, then:
// Beginning Pseudocode
if (water==freshwater)
{
if (temperature 0 )
..Kelvin? ;o)
{
usetexture(freshwater_freezed);
}
else
{
usetexture(freshwater_unfreezed);
}
}
else
{
usetexture(saltwater);
..freezes too, the salt just drops the freezing a coupla degree (or
Kelvin ;o) ), depending on salinity. Most lakes above sea level stay
fresh because the salt is run off to sea or a lower lake, like the Dead
Sea in between Palestine and Jordan. The higher-than-sea-level
salty lakes are usually quite far from the seas.
}
This is not a perfect solution, but better than nothing in most cases.
:)
--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.
___
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Winter Textures - screenshot
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:27:56 +0200, Ralf wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, Dave Culp schrieb: screenshot: http://home.comcast.net/~davidculp2/PC7-winter.jpg BTW, my lakes are still blue. Do we need an ice-water texture? The Lake of Constance - the greatest lake in German-speaking Europe - only seldomly freezes. The last so-called Seegfr�rne (lake-freezing in the local dialect) was in the 60's. I'd say we need different texture-names for lakes which freeze in the winter and those that don't. ..aye. Delay lake freezing around river mouths and speed thawing there, the currents. We want Artic ocean 'n bay 'n fjord freezing too? ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: A question regarding accurate taxiways
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:50:00 + (UTC), Martin wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You won't be able to reverse-engineer the shape of such a junction because in real live they don't follow geometric perfection. ..maybe use some curve fitting library to generate those shapes at runtime? [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ $ apt-cache search curve fitting fityk - general-purpose nonlinear curve fitting and data analysis [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ $ apt-cache search --full curve fitting Package: fityk Priority: optional Section: science Installed-Size: 3084 Maintainer: Carlo Segre [EMAIL PROTECTED] Architecture: i386 Version: 0.5.1-2 Depends: libc6 (= 2.3.5-1), libgcc1 (= 1:4.0.1), libncurses5 (= 5.4-5), libreadline5, libstdc++6 (= 4.0.1), libwxgtk2.4-1 (= 2.4.4.1.1) Recommends: gnuplot Suggests: menu Filename: pool/main/f/fityk/fityk_0.5.1-2_i386.deb Size: 1144392 MD5sum: a72ffd8d76510b9290668b383a0bc2cb Description: general-purpose nonlinear curve fitting and data analysis Fityk is a flexible and portable program for nonlinear fitting of analytical functions (especially peak-shaped) to data (usually experimental data). In other words, for nonlinear peak separation and analysis. . It was developed for analyzing diffraction patterns, but can be also used in other fields, since concepts and operations specific for crystallography are separated from the rest of the program. . Fityk offers various nonlinear fitting methods, subtracting background, calibrating data, easy placement of peaks and changing peak parameters, automation of common tasks with scripts, and much more. The main advantage of the program is flexibility - parameters of peaks can be arbitrarily bound to each other, eg. the width of a peak can be an independent variable, can be the same as the width of another peak or can be given by a complicated - common to all peaks - formula. . Homepage: http://www.unipress.waw.pl/fityk/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ $ ..it might be a clever idea and could even a smart idea but I'm not gonna be saying it's a wise idea. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..we're not re-inventing pcproxy?, was
On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:11:51 +0200 (IST), Vassilii wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I wonder if the flightgear server though should support the fsd protocol at some future point of time to be a gateway between our and VATSIM/IVAO flying... It's not a matter if it _should_ or not. The relevant details of the protocol, at least as used by VASTIM, are 'closed', Security by obscurity, as far as I am reading the forums... stupid. Apparently the pcproxy is in Debian (which made me believe we can interface the protocol, too) because it just forwards the packets w/o examining their contents too much. Hopefully one day we'll provide an open source alternative to that. ..one way is simply set up a pcproxy box to interface between our stuff and the VATSIM/IVAO guys. Or, between our stuff and http://www.wbfree.net/index.php ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] DME range
On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 13:02:48 +0200 (IST), Vassilii wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: With VOR-DME it is definitely the slant range. I don't know about VORTACs, never flew a TACAN-equipped aircraft in the real life... ..sure? If you flew red star planes during the Cold War, you guys would be using similarly working gear but with other names? Hehe :-) I haven't come of age when the Cold War eneded, and my private pilot certificate (PP-ASEL) is US-issued :-) ..brat. ;o) Jolly good thing Mathias Rust didn't carry a nuke to the Red Square. :o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer ports
On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:30:44 +0100, Jim wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi guys, Without wishing to start a flame war and perhaps starting another thread!! Anyone transmitting un-encrypted data across a world wide internet (as opposed to a private intranet) needs to think ahead a little. Every hacker will be rubbing their hands with glee before trying to hit you on these ports you have just announced. A server/client or even peer-to-peer client can implement TLS/SSL fairly easily. For those with restricted firewalls you can tunnel through SSH port 22 if you want to keep it simple. Firewall/NAT configurations are difficult enough for admins to configure without having to allow special FlightGear port rules to allow access to ports on machines in-the-clear which may then get hacked thus compromising the security of everyone behind the firewall. ..yes, but can ssh give us any good udp tunnelling? Maybe I am paranoid (well known for it in my previous job!) but a denial-of-service attack on your multi-player ports will soon wreck your response times! cheers Jim ..try put an outboard in your kettle and casually wield a chainsaw on asking the white coat guys for constructive critisism. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] ..we're not re-inventing pcproxy?, was README.multiplayer update
On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 11:36:22 +0200, Oliver wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Am Freitag 14 Oktober 2005 19:28 schrieb Andy Ross: The NAT router will create a temporary IP/port combination for the client, and this combination is what the server will see when receiving data. The server assumes that this combination will not change. But this assumption is wrong, especially with UDP as there is no connection. So the server has to reread the port from the UDP header everytime it reseives new data from the client and recreate a socket for it (and clse the existing one of course). That will result in multiple create/close socket operations per second for every client. And that will simply result in multiple already in use errors per second. You can argue that you've never noticed such NAT behavior, and you are possibly right. But it will really only work with a so called cone NAT router, which will make IP/port combination persistent. Interesting reading, although not directly connected to this discussion, is: http://gnunet.org/papers/nat.pdf ..we're not re-inventing pcproxy, are we? [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/www/01-gas/fmb.no/gas $ apt-cache --full show pcproxy Package: pcproxy Priority: optional Section: games Installed-Size: 196 Maintainer: Kees Leune [EMAIL PROTECTED] Architecture: all Version: 1.1.1-2 Depends: tk8.0 | tk8.2 | tk8.3 | tk8.4 Filename: pool/main/p/pcproxy/pcproxy_1.1.1-2_all.deb Size: 38294 MD5sum: 8d02f7c3a9d11db4938697f32e3c0239 Description: A masquerading proxy for flight simulation networks PCProxy allows multiple flight simulation clients to share a single network connection to a flight simulation network, such as VATSIM or IVAO, which is based on the fsd (Flight Simulator Daemon) protocol. This is particulary useful for players who wish to have multiple network clients active at the same time. In tech-terms, PCProxy is a multi-connect masquerading proxy for fsd traffic over TCP/IP. . PCProxy currently only supports networks which operate using the fsd protocol, like VATSIM and IVAO. Tag: use::proxying -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] A question regarding accurate taxiways
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:54:47 +0200, Harald wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Martin Spott wrote: Erik Hofman wrote: To my opinion the X-Plane format isn't qualified for accurate runway and taxiway layout. This is Harald's opinion as well as mine ! _But_: Our opinion on this format actually does not change it. Right ? And as long as FG sticks to rely on this X-Plane data it makes little sense to generate airports in a different format - as long as we are unable to convert back and forth. For example it would be a nice feature to automagically create outlines and a centerline from X-Plane data and create a set of overrides from FAA/SIA/whoever data. I can see two kind of airports in the Robin database : - those with detailed taxiways and apron : they have no more any taxiway description because the mass of little pseudo-apron used to make details and curves have replaced the one or two default taxiways ; - those without detaild taxiways; they have one or two taxiways paralel to the runways. So I have the feeling that we can not extract any meaningfull information from the runways data from this database, the side effect is that there is no need to convert from one format to another hypothetical format. Probably we are going to merge this data into a single set of airport descriptions in vector format for FlightGear. What are we going to do if something is being changed in Robin's database ? Are we going to maintain a parallel database ? We have 20.000+ airports in Robin base, we want to change 50 or 500 of them. I think we should keep Robin's database and use it as we use it today, and use a new database for the few airports we want to upgrade with a new format. Durk Taslma is using a network to describe the ground traffic pattern, we are no more talking about polygons. ..IMHO, the wise thing to do is extend Robin's database format to do our thing the way we wanna do it, and use that to win him over our way exporting to his format, and ship him both. Robin's user's corrections remains useful to us, even if they stick with their current format. ..and, we can reel them in pretty nicely our way setting up a web site taxi way editor app for user input of their database corrections, to output the corrected data on the spot, and in both formats. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] ..picky preach to the choir, was: A revised README.Joystick.html
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:58:51 +0200, Melchior wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: * [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Friday 14 October 2005 10:23: At the company where I work as an IT guy if we update someone's work we add ourselves as the author so that people can see who are the authors and ask questions about the document to the new author also. I would still not call that author. Just editor. ..say maintainer, if you mean the guy who updates old docs and answers questions etc. ..adding new content to something old, you become an author. Too. But not the original author to the document. Only to whatever you add to it. Also when that add word means remove old stuff. ;o) And I know this only as adding a copyright line with appropriate date, and mostly in source code. This isn't normally done in fgfs documents AFAIK. There's ususally only one -- the real -- author named in the documents. ..say original. All fgfs developers that edit the file can be found in the cvs log and are of no interest to the reader. ..that would depend on the reader's purpose for his reading. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] DME range
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:04:09 +0200 (IST), Vassilii wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Does anyone know if the DME calculation to a VORTAC is based on slant range? Noticed when flying over a fix say at FL350, the range goes down to zero at station passage. It should be the AGLvalue of the aircraft over the station. OTH a waypoint based on radial intersections or GPS would go to zero. With VOR-DME it is definitely the slant range. I don't know about VORTACs, never flew a TACAN-equipped aircraft in the real life... ..sure? If you flew red star planes during the Cold War, you guys would be using similarly working gear but with other names? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [PATCH] README.multiplayer update
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:27:08 +0200 (IST), Vassilii wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: + +Options needed to enable multiplayer game with a server: Player1: ---multiplay=out,10,serveraddress,6000 --multiplay=in,10,myaddress,5500 ..this works ok with X in lan's? (X uses port 6000 too.) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [PATCH] README.multiplayer update
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:36:43 +0200 (IST), Vassilii wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: + +Options needed to enable multiplayer game with a server: Player1: ---multiplay=out,10,serveraddress,6000 --multiplay=in,10,myaddress,5500 I'm confused. The CVS had my patch accepted, I updated from the CVS, and I see no occurence of the number 6000 in README.multiplayer now. ..this works ok with X in lan's? (X uses port 6000 too.) Apparently not. ..aouch. Ok, the first X session on any box will use port 6000, the next 6001 etc, similarly 5900, 5901 upwards for vnc etc. ..how about putting the server on 5500 like we have done, and commandeer 5501 upwards for all clients? (Assuming they're vacant? Excluding non-FG app ports, I suspect METAR fetches has an established procedure, with ports and all.) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft artwork (!) in the 707 panel
On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 21:09:53 +0200, Georg wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hans-Georg Wunder schrieb: ... - Do we have a place to store aircrafts with uncompliant aircrafts ??? Hi Hans-Georg, there is an AVSIM category in the file library named FlightGear with 4 sub-categories: - base distribution, - source code, -scenery and terrain and miscellaneous files. You could place anything there as it is your problem and risk and not related to FlightGear if there are copyright problems but I think this is not prudent and useful. And you would be pretty lonely there as only 1 (!) file is there, in the wrong category and with obvious copyright infringements as the 747 repaint is a commercial movie theme. ..seriously, 0 is enough for trouble makers. http://groklaw.net/ Despite the bad place I will upload a tool to AVSIM as the license of the compiler is a non profit and personal one and I don't want any problems for FlightGear. In Germany it is pretty clear that I am allowed to give this *.exe to other people as long as I do not take money with it. But what's about other parts of the world? I don't know. ..you wanna ask please help me find the copyright owners to these files on putting _any_ of these online. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Adding Reverse thrust to the b1900d
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 16:43:52 +0200, Melchior wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: * Martin Spott -- Monday 03 October 2005 16:36: Didn't some asian airline 'lose' a B767 after the reverser was activated on _one_ engine during flight ? It was *in* Asia, but an Austrian airline: Lauda Air. It was caused by a software bug. http://www.rvs.uni-bielefeld.de/publications/Incidents/DOCS/ComAndRep/LaudaAir/LaudaSYN.html ..has anyone here tried redo this flight in FG? ..that rudder trim requirement, could that be the outboard reverser door swinging open into the thrust jet, deflecting it? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] mp3 intro
On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 12:55:15 +0200, Erik wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Ladislav Michnovič wrote: Hello. I want to ask if it is poissible to substitute intro mp3 with wav or ogg format. Because of legal problems distributing the mp3 playing software in USA with linux distro, like SuSE LINUX, it will be fine if this only mp3 dissapears. We could actually argue whether we still want the intro music option to be available. It hasn't been on by default since FlightGear 0.8.x I think. ..3 very good reasons for an _optional_ ogg or wav. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Adding Reverse thrust to the b1900d
On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 13:10:35 -0400, Ampere wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: If I want to bind it to the throttle instead, can I make the idle position to cut in at about 10% of the range of the stick with the reverser starting to kick in below that point. Bad idea. You don't want the pilot to accidently deploy the thrust reverser in mid air when all he/she wants to do is slowing down. ..very true. However some idiots build their planes this way, and even gets away with selling them this way. So, is FG a truthful simulator, or a good idea game? ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Microsoft artwork (!) in the 707 panel
On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:06:40 -0400, Jim wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: From: Andy Ross Hans-Georg Wunder wrote: In the package there is a GPL-license. If this is enough, then everything is OK regarding the panel. Unfortunately, due to clear evidence of (minor, admittedly) copyright violation, this is not enough. The issue isn't license compatibility, it is copyright ownership. John Carty cannot legally grant a license to artwork he does not own. We need to be 100% sure that the people granting the license (GPL or otherwise) own the copyright. I wrote John a mail and told him, what Iam going to do, but I got no answer. At this point, I think a statement from Mr. Carty is really the only thing that will be acceptable. It's possible he didn't understand the rules, and generated some of the artwork via screenshots of other aircraft in MSFS. That's a showstopper for us. Obviously Innis's model and FDM configuration are fine. But my strong suggestion is not to commit the panel until we can trace the history of every image in it. Andy's view on this is the same as my own. If OSS developers learned a lesson from SCO it is this. Although it is hard to see now, some day FGFS or a derivative is likely to be a real threat to whatever is left of the future MSFS desktop market and the last thing we want to do is give some bunch of copyright lawyers a toehold. ..aye. http://groklaw.net/ We're not too worried about tSCOG anymore, ;o) but we do peel off layer by layer onion peel style who's done what etc and who's next and why and how etc. ;o) So, John Carty, your statement, please. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Crash carnage
On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 14:12:13 -0500, Curtis wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..ahem, the big guys use opening shock damper rings to keep chute loads safe throughout the speed range, these rings use the chute opening loads to slow the chute opening. ;o) Except that I heard a story recently about a guy that got himself into a bad high speed situation, deployed the chute and had is airplane shreaded to pieces. They probably have systems in place (as you suggest) to minimize potential problems, but a chute obviously can't handle every situation. ..true, is why you time it or hook up an autopilot to deploy it. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new multiplayer patch
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:21:27 +0200, Erik wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: AJ MacLeod wrote: Certainly... Unfortunately it appears that the problem (for whatever reason) is still there... http://www.adeptopensource.co.uk/personal/fg/server_map_screenshot.png Hmm, this looks like a signed/unsigned mismatch. ..fwiw, this is precisely how Google Maps looks in Konqueror and those-other-than-Firefox web browsers I've tried, appending fc=1 immediately turns off Google's somewhat whiny browser support check page and dumps you a more or less ok map page. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Question: Online forums?
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:21:59 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I think a forum is a great idea. The biggest advantage I see over most mailing lists is that a forum is searchable. I see too many F/OSS projects with mailing lists that aren't searchable. Having a searchable forum/list really cuts down on duplicate questions. ..huh? Any modern email client can do backtraffic searches. Having said that, I really like phpBB for forum software. It's actively developed, has a lot of mods, and has an active community. It can also use PostgreSQL, so you won't have to use MySQL. Another feature I really like is a mod for phpBB called Mail 2 Forum or m2f. It allows people to post and see responses to a forum using e-mail. It's a nice feature if you have some people who want a forum and some who want a mailing list. I've used this mod in the past and it's pretty neat. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Question: Online forums?
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:53:14 +0200, Erik wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Alex Perry wrote: From: Curtis L. Olson - I'm getting really sick of spam. I think we do a pretty good job of protecting the list members themselves, but the list admins get continually pummeled with spam rates measured in messages per hour and sometimes messages per minute ... Fix the real problem. Make the admin messages go through a procmail. An autoresponse tells people to use the web page subscribe/unsubscribe if they're having trouble, mentions the message size limit, points out the web archive of old traffic, and explains that anybody really wanting to contact the list admins should be able to figure it out using Google. Maybe that can be a good solution, create an autoresponder that returns instructions on how to contact the mailinglist admin using a web page? ..yup, could be a web email form page. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Question: Online forums?
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:21:59 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I think a forum is a great idea. The biggest advantage I see over most mailing lists is that a forum is searchable. I see too many F/OSS projects with mailing lists that aren't searchable. Having a searchable forum/list really cuts down on duplicate questions. ..huh? Any modern email client can do backtraffic searches. Having said that, I really like phpBB for forum software. It's actively developed, has a lot of mods, and has an active community. It can also use PostgreSQL, so you won't have to use MySQL. Another feature I really like is a mod for phpBB called Mail 2 Forum or m2f. It allows people to post and see responses to a forum using e-mail. It's a nice feature if you have some people who want a forum and some who want a mailing list. I've used this mod in the past and it's pretty neat. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [Flightgear-users] RE: Turbine Engine (Concorde, Hunter, and Citation Information Needed)
On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 20:33:09 +0200, Christian wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: AFAIK Porsche were the only ones that have build an extra electrical motor to turn the turbo after shut down. As car turbos get turned only ..turn the turbo??? You mean pump lube oil thru it till it's as cool as the engine? by aerodynamic forces it is much more difficult to add an extra motor than with gas turbines or jet engines (that allways need an gear box to get started - execpt perhaps the model engines) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Conference
On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 07:48:35 -0500, Jon wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I'd give a lot to know what these two papers are presenting! See below: ..looks a lot like FUD to me, best handled by Groklaw or the Nazgul. ;o) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Conference 26 - 29 Sep 2005 Hyatt Regency Crystal City Arlington, Virginia Session 71 COTS Software in Mission Critical Systems 0930 AIAA-2005-7108 Open Source Software: Cheap Isn't Exactly Free! B. Calloni, J. McGowan, and R. Stanley, Lockheed Martin Corporation, Fort Worth, TX 1000 AIAA-2005-7106 Bazaar Meets Cathedral: Concerns About Open Source Software in Mission Critical Systems [invited] R. Kwan, Lightsaber Computing, Fremont, CA -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] OT: Mojave, CA
On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 16:10:54 -0500, Curtis wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The Draken is a really impressive bird, especially considering the era in which it was designed. The US is pretty cocky about stuff invented over here, but the Draken had some really impressive specs for it's day. ..me, I'm just wondering how their J22 would have done at altitude with turbos off interned B-17F|G's. http://anycities.com/user/j22/j22/ ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] suggestions/questions regarding multiplayer
On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 18:59:21 +0100, David wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Harald JOHNSEN writes: Oliver Schroeder wrote: 2) chat messages [...] protocoll supports chat-messages and the ATC-module has functions to queue and display them on screen. So it should'nt be too hard to combine them and enable chat-messages. Somebody willing to give it a try? As Pigeon said, make that a separate window, because the ATC line is allready nearly impossible to read ;) It should not be hard to code but the atc code is not good for that (anyway it does not queue messages). Correct - it's not intended to queue messages. Messages transmitted at the same time end up displayed on top of each other and appear garbled, much as messages transmitted at the same time probably sound garbled, screeched, or one non-existant in real life. All the message collision logic is in the ATC and AI units, which attempt to speak only when the frequency is clear. There are a few bugs in there, so sometimes garbled speech occurs! ..garbled speech occurs in RL too. Bug in RL, feature in FG. ;o) I do agree though that the basic ATC display can be nearly unreadable under some colour conditions - it's very much a quick hack ;-) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] NVIDIA 1.0-7667 breaks shadows entirely.
On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 15:13:54 +0200, Gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Le lundi 01 août 2005 à 00:18 +0200, Arnt Karlsen a écrit : On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 16:40:58 +0200, Oliver wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Saturday 30 July 2005 16:25, Dave Martin wrote: I don't know if anyone has brought this up yet but the 1.0-7667 driver from NVIDIA for linux breaks the drawn shadows as in they don't appear at all. This tested and confirmed on a FX5800U and 6600GT PCIE Dave Martin No, it works here. You just need to start flightgear in 24 bit mode. fgfs --bpp=24 ...does --bpp=32 work any better than 24bpp for you? (Assuming X run at 32 on Nvidia cards) Being Nvidia and X installed , i continu to search a good answer : After many experimentations, I did not notice any change between 24bpp and 32 bpp. ..glxgears, FlightGear etc f/s? I am not an expert in graphics development, may be the differences depends on the GPU itself and the capability to handle both definitions, The main question could be about CPU: does CPU time used and is it any losses with one or the other ? Does somebody can give an answer ? ..pass, what I learned from my own research on gpu's before buying an ATI 9250 clone, is ATI are native 24bpp and 24bpp only, where Nvidia is 1x32bpp or 2x16bpp, suggesting ATI would suck at 16bpp doing less than 3x8bpp and at 32bpp not being able to see or make any use of the top 8 bits. My understanding of Nvidea is their cards should work better at 32bpp and 16bpp than at 24bpp, because 24bpp wastes half a 16bpp engine. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] NVIDIA 1.0-7667 breaks shadows entirely.
On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 23:08:03 +0200, Gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Le lundi 01 août 2005 à 21:53 +0200, Arnt Karlsen a écrit : Being Nvidia and X installed , i continu to search a good answer : After many experimentations, I did not notice any change between 24bpp and 32 bpp. ...glxgears, FlightGear etc f/s? Ouaf. glxgears isn't a representative benchmark, with it we cannot get a good performance analysis. ..I said etc. ;o) I have played to demonstrate that my old ati 9200 and my other old nvidia 5200 is better than the NVIDIA 6600GT. assuming we use the Nvidia 7xxx driver (not the 6xxx) FG says 6600GT is x2.5 more (32 bpp or 24 seem the same performance ) Celestia says (depending on the render choice) from x3 to x4 more (probably 32bpp, my Xserver is permanently 32bpp) ..benchmark start-up commandline ideas will help benchmark apples and oranges, as such, rather than as bananas and pineapples. ;o) I am not an expert in graphics development, may be the differences depends on the GPU itself and the capability to handle both definitions, The main question could be about CPU: does CPU time used and is it any losses with one or the other ? Does somebody can give an answer ? ...pass, what I learned from my own research on gpu's before buying an ATI 9250 clone, is ATI are native 24bpp and 24bpp only, where Nvidia is 1x32bpp or 2x16bpp, suggesting ATI would suck at 16bpp doing less than 3x8bpp and at 32bpp not being able to see or make any use of the top 8 bits. My understanding of Nvidea is their cards should work better at 32bpp and 16bpp than at 24bpp, because 24bpp wastes half a 16bpp engine. Ok , i will try to analyse it. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] NVIDIA 1.0-7667 breaks shadows entirely.
On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 16:40:58 +0200, Oliver wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Saturday 30 July 2005 16:25, Dave Martin wrote: I don't know if anyone has brought this up yet but the 1.0-7667 driver from NVIDIA for linux breaks the drawn shadows as in they don't appear at all. This tested and confirmed on a FX5800U and 6600GT PCIE Dave Martin No, it works here. You just need to start flightgear in 24 bit mode. fgfs --bpp=24 ..does --bpp=32 work any better than 24bpp for you? (Assuming X run at 32 on Nvidia cards) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Free simulator of the Frecce Tricoloriaerobatic jet
On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 23:01:28 +0100, Lee wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thursday 28 Jul 2005 15:15, Vivian Meazza wrote: Dave Culp ... snip ... The present system makes smoke/contrails by releasing AI objects rapidly. There are three problems with it now: 1) Orienting the objects properly. Only applies for long (i.e. cylindrical, rectangular) models. 2) Matching the release rate to the airplane's speed. 3) Making a smoke model that merges well with the others. I've heard (on this list) that this may be a plib limitation. It may require the use of a different visual model, like billboards or particle fields. On the other hand, maybe a whole new tactic is needed. I think Harald is working on this as an offshoot of his 3d clouds. I'm quite sure we can't do better with the AI ballistic approach as it stands. Vivian I've been wondering if Harald's clouds could be adapted for smoke, contrails, gun-puffs and touch-down smoke... It started me thinking when I saw a 'tower' of 3d clouds over some high ground and it looked like a pretty good volcano plume, and it occurred to me that it could be possible to add pretty good volcano hazards to FG. .._sexy_ way to sneak in war game features: we need to model anti-aircraft lava ammo 'n turbine blade ash etc damage. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Free simulator of the Frecce Tricoloriaerobatic jet
On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 14:11:40 +0200, Gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ..._sexy_ way to sneak in war game features: we need to model anti-aircraft lava ammo 'n turbine blade ash etc damage. ;o) We don't need it, only watch the TV, and wait for Iraki News. :=( ..bull, I see no reason any of Sissy Boy George's idiot stunts should stop any new FlightGear development. ..since we do have guns now in FG, and since Slobodan's shills didn't dare challenge my rulings ;o) on Geneva Convention disputes in soc.culture.yugoslavia, alt.war.yugoslavia etc a decade ago, I believe we can code both a kill score AI engine, and a war crime score AI, basing the latter on the full 4 Geneva Conventions. ..and, this latter bit can get us some seriously fat funding: FlightGear helps war game authors teach soldiers how to prevent war crimes. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Free simulator of the Frecce
On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 15:02:04 + (UTC), Martin wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..since we do have guns now in FG, and since Slobodan's shills didn't dare challenge my rulings ;o) on Geneva Convention disputes in soc.culture.yugoslavia, alt.war.yugoslavia etc a decade ago, I believe we can code both a kill score AI engine, and a war crime score AI, basing the latter on the full 4 Geneva Conventions. I heavily object because this lets FlightGear definitely cross the line between serious simulation and war games, Martin. ..overruled or sustained by any new code in cvs. ;o) boom -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] jsbsim won't start with w110n40 or w110n30airports
On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 00:47:26 +0200, Gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Le mercredi 27 juillet 2005 à 23:15 +0200, Arnt Karlsen a écrit : On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:18:34 +0200, Gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I did NOT ask for deleting that piece of code which is rather good (and could be improved), i only ask for to remove the new AGL test ^^ which delete the UNDERCARIAGE facilities. Am i understandable ? ...well, not neccessarily in the precise way you intended to, if you're in doubt, also write in your native language so we can play with babelfish.org, a couple of your recent post reads out far worse in english than what I believe you meant them to. ;o) for BabeFish.org En français j'écrirai exactement la même chose. ..that's the first half of communication, the part where you _are_ in charge, regardless of whether or not you know what you are saying. ..in the second half of communication, you're _not_ in charge, so you can merely hope, that I'll heed your suggestions in what you say, of what you would like me to read and do etc. ..I judge and rule on that. ;o) boom. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] ..copyright infringement???, was: Free simulator of the Frecce Tricolori aerobatic jet
On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 14:39:34 +0100, Dave wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Congratulation to the Author. The flight is wonderful, very accurate. Only little difficulties under Linux with the Upper-case, Lower-case mixing (direct.xml = Direct.xml, *.ase = *.ASE, instruments name, and flap = Flap). Arrh MS Windows. I would fix the faults and make a cross-platform version available but apparently the License doesn't allow this :( ..it's all in their README: MB339-PAN package Copyright HCI Lab, University of Udine, Frecce Tricolori, 2005 OFFICIAL WEBSITE: http://hcilab.uniud.it/pan Visit the site for more information and updates (Don't forget to watch the video about The making of MB-339 PAN) LEGAL NOTICE The contents of all the files included in the MB339-PAN package are protected by copyright laws. Except as provided below, you may not modify, reproduce, republish, post, transmit or distribute any materials without the express written consent of the University of Udine. To request such consent, write a mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You may use the files for personal or educational purposes only, provided that you do not modify them, and you include all the copyright, URL and legal information. ..this means we can _not_ use this new model. To make it a part of FlightGear, we need you to license it under the GPL. ..as authors, you can _also_ use _other_ licenses, but if you want _us_ (FlightGear.org) to make your MB339 part of FlightGear, we need to be able to distribute your MB339 under the exact same license as we distribute everything else in FlightGear, under the GPL. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY You expressly understand and agree that HCI Lab, the University of Udine and Frecce Tricolori shall not be liable for any direct, indirect, incidental, special, consequential, or exemplary damages, including but not limited to, damages for loss of profits, goodwill, use, data, or other intangible losses, resulting from the use or the inability to use this software. If you do not agree to the above terms, DO NOT install or use this software. ..are they in copyright infringement? That depends on how they represent FlightGear licensing. IMHO, we cannot link to these people as related until they clarify the legal issues here. ..and here I was gonna start pointing out how we need to model downwash and wing tip vortices so this new MB339 could be flown the way Frecce Tricolori does, in acrobatic formations. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] ..on multiple licenses, also for MB339? , was: Cirrus SR20 Model?
Hi Augusto, .. I cc'd you this because the licensing discussion here is relevant to your MB339. :o) ..for the rest of you guys, this discusses why-n-how the GPL is _the_ superior commersial and academic license, IMHO. ;o) On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:15:44 -0500, Curtis wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ..and Sylpheed-1.9.6 was too alpha, so I'm back at 1.0.4-1. ;o) Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 20:38:39 -0500, Curtis wrote in message This could go two possible directions. If someone wants to volunteer to do this, it could be contributed to FlightGear for everyone to enjoy. The person requesting this might also be able to pay some smallish amount (yet to be determined) to have this done, but if he pays for it, he wants to own the result for his own use, and it couldn't be contributed to flightgear.. ..he who pays can _both_ own his paid-for SR20 and have us distribute it for him under the GPL. sigh I'm not sure if it's worth the bother to reply here /sigh But he who pays for something to be developed can do whatever he wants with it. In this case if he pays for the model's development, he doesn't want to give it away to everyone for free. That's his right and his choice to make. If someone is developing something on their own, they can dual, triple, quadruple license it however they want, ..precisely. ;o) And, preaching this to the choir here is meant to leave this advice on record here for new and future FG developers, at least I find this worthwhile. ;o) but if they want to do an open-source + commercial license, they are going to have to find someone to buy it commercially, and if it's already available as open-source, why should someone pay for it? And there may be answers to that retorical question, but in this specific case, if there's already an SR20 model in FlightGear, why would this guy want to pay for it? ..eh. Not quite how this came across to me, the context I saw when I wrote grandparent msg last week, allowed a few litigation traps. ..it _is_ possible to both couple and de-couple commercial with open source, eg Microsoft does the latter with contract law, closing their code with contracts known as End User License Agreement, which is well established legalese for contract. In courts, they litigate their cases primarily on the merits of the contracts. Just a wee dispute here, no bad guys here. ;o) ..the GPL instead makes use of copyright law and of _not_ entering into any contractual agreement, but instead _allowing_ something that is otherwise forbidden (distribution), and on a certain condition, your source too, please. The language nothing else in this license allows, is designed to make the GPL irrelevant in any case of disagreement or absense of compliance, so all cases fall back onto copyright law in courts as Software Piracy!!![Tm]. Ugly. ;o) ..I know of _no_ other copyright scheme that can match the GPL's proven slam dunk track record in courts. Now, the FUD meisters will have you believe the GPL is not proven in courts, conveniently ignoring the common practice of making secrecy, _part_ of the settlements. ;o) ..once this rather powerful law and licence combination is fully understood by he-who-pays, he's going to prefer the GPL over his current licensing scheme. I think it is worthwhile to spend this wee bit of extra effort to get those who pays, get that bit home between their ears. ;o) ..it is perfectly legal to sell GPL software, and make _GPL_compliance_, _part_ of the sales contract terms. So, there is _no_ conflict between commercial and the GPL. ;o) Feel free to contact me off-line if you like. If more than one persons responds, I guess I need to reserve the right to make some hard decisions. :-) ..one of them could be spend more time explaining copyright law enforcement and the GPL to him, he either misses RMS' copyright law enforcement scheme behind the GPL, or he pretends to, like the SCO Group in Lindon, Utah. None of this last paragraph seems to make any sense in the context of ..thread context was missing. ;o) this discussion. I'm not sure how useful it is to launch into a GPL/RMS/Groklaw/SCO rant every time the word commercial passes across your computer screen, especially when your comments don't seem to make any logical sense or have any connection to the topic at hand. Sorry if that sounded harsh, but I could be having a stressful day here or something like that. :-) .. ;o) ..there _are_ a few people out there who are happy to destroy us, these pays proxies to lure us open source people into various litigation traps, using baits quite similar to that in your OP in this thread, so we do need to beware of these schemes. Now, I also wrote grandparent msg 3days ago before I got the rest of this thread, those posts covered context in this thread better. ;o) Apparently no one
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Free simulator of the Frecce Tricolori aerobatic jet
On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:48:01 -0500, Dave wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Since the MB-339 PAN is an on-going project, we plan to release an improved version of the aircraft (with smokes?). We have smoke/contrails now, but they need a lot of work: http://home.comcast.net/~davidculp2/contrails.jpg They look OK from some angles, and look bad from others. I tried to add a smoke generator to the OV-10 model (The real OV-10 can inject oil into the right exhaust stack to make white smoke), but it doesn't look good enough to use. ..white smoke, for smoke signalling? ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Free simulator of the Frecce Tricolori aerobatic jet
On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 19:20:38 +0200, Erik wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Andy Ross wrote: Basically, it seems to me like these guys are fine, with a few nit-picky exceptions like the joystick configuration. I don't think Yes, but why the joystick configuration and not the sound configuration (which was created by me for the c172) for instance. we need to raise a stink, except to get their derived stuff released as a separate tarball somewhere. ..hey, give Augusto some time to get this fixed, eh? ;o) ..Augusto, if you need any help with winning your team over to the GPL, just holler. ;o) I would really like to see it available. But they claim copyright over work done by someone else (and also restrict it afterwards). To me they just have to say which files where modified and that those files still fall under the terms of the GPL. ..diff's, anyone? ;o) ..keep in mind _some_ of our stuff like trivial header files, does not qualify as copyrightable, simply because there are only so many ways to get 4 outta 2-n-2. .._lots_ of background on this over at Groklaw.net. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Free simulator of the Frecce Tricolori aerobatic jet
On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:34:13 -0700 (PDT), Craig wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello all, Where do I find this aircraft. Is it released yet? ..chk down the $FGROOT/data/aircraft/ tree. Craig Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:48:01 -0500, Dave wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Since the MB-339 PAN is an on-going project, we plan to release an improved version of the aircraft (with smokes?). We have smoke/contrails now, but they need a lot of work: http://home.comcast.net/~davidculp2/contrails.jpg They look OK from some angles, and look bad from others. I tried to add a smoke generator to the OV-10 model (The real OV-10 can inject oil into the right exhaust stack to make white smoke), but it doesn't look good enough to use. ..white smoke, for smoke signalling? ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] jsbsim won't start with w110n40 or w110n30airports
On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:18:34 +0200, Gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I did NOT ask for deleting that piece of code which is rather good (and could be improved), i only ask for to remove the new AGL test ^^ which delete the UNDERCARIAGE facilities. Am i understandable ? ..well, not neccessarily in the precise way you intended to, if you're in doubt, also write in your native language so we can play with babelfish.org, a couple of your recent post reads out far worse in english than what I believe you meant them to. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cirrus SR20 Model?
On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 20:38:39 -0500, Curtis wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This could go two possible directions. If someone wants to volunteer to do this, it could be contributed to FlightGear for everyone to enjoy. The person requesting this might also be able to pay some smallish amount (yet to be determined) to have this done, but if he pays for it, he wants to own the result for his own use, and it couldn't be contributed to flightgear.. ..he who pays can _both_ own his paid-for SR20 and have us distribute it for him under the GPL. Feel free to contact me off-line if you like. If more than one persons responds, I guess I need to reserve the right to make some hard decisions. :-) ..one of them could be spend more time explaining copyright law enforcement and the GPL to him, he either misses RMS' copyright law enforcement scheme behind the GPL, or he pretends to, like the SCO Group in Lindon, Utah. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: gui theming
On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 17:18:50 -0400, Jim wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: From: Melchior FRANZ * Ampere K. Hardraade -- Tuesday 12 July 2005 19:15: On July 11, 2005 04:26 am, Melchior FRANZ wrote: http://members.aon.at/mfranz/fgfs_gui8.jpg [50 kB] That's so nice. I would have no objection if that is made default. Maybe a new style for fgfs 1.0.0 would be a good idea. I'm biased, though, and can't vote for it. Excellent work Melchior! A long overdue update. ..no need to wait for 1.0.0, if we like it now, we put it in now. 0.9.9 could have us see a need for 0.9.10, 0.9.11, 0.9.12 etc, as we all like to get 1.0.0 damn right. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Custom scenery integration
On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 21:51:24 + (UTC), Martin wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Norman Vine wrote: Ralf Gerlich writes: Actually, I _do_ agree that having preprocessed scenery _is_ an advantage. But it does have disadvantages as well: 1.) At the current state it appears (to me) nearly impossible to inject user-contributed additions into the scenery, 2.) I don't manage to build the necessary tools on my server ;-)) Share your problems with us, perhaps we can help ;-) I simply chose the 'wrong' hardware: I'm running AIX on my RS6k server. A great machine to build FlightGear scenery (4 GByte RAM, 8 CPU's) but without a compiler that meets the requirements. ..stupid Q: Can this iron run User Mode Linux? Qemu? Bochs? ..emulator overhead, but allows running all the goodies. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] About 3D Clouds
On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 09:00:52 +0200, Mathias wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: That is it. Setting bits-per-pixel to 32 makes the models throw phantastic well looking shadows! At least for my box with the binary ati driver. ..AFAIK, ATI cards cannot do 32bpp. They use 24 bit hardware. They will do 24bpp very nicely both when set to 24bpp and 32bpp. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] ..multi-X trick ideas, was: FlightGear got killed (seems like memory problem)
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 20:28:04 -0400, Ampere wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello, I uninstalled Xorg and went back to XFree today so I could do some testing with XFree and the latest FlightGear CVS. ..a tad drastic, for FG development, you could simply set up two runlevels, say runlevel 2 to run xorg and runlevel 3 to run XFree, these 2 runlevels could othervise be identical. ..to push this further, you could also use runlevel 4 to run both at the same time, say xorg on /dev/tty7 as :0 and XFree on /dev/tty8 as :1, hopping between them is then [ctrl]+[alt]+[F7] and [ctrl]+[alt]+[F8]. Etc. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] New aircraft ideas ?
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:26:40 -0700 (PDT), Alex wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Got an idea for a new aircraft (not airplane) you'd like to try ? http://www.dodsbir.net/Topics/Default.asp Topic: A05-208 ..concerns semiballistic 40-105 mm munitions with enhanced lethality capable of striking targets of opportunity along the modifiable ballistic trajectory. ..I'd like to see such devices make full use of the 4 Geneva Conventions to save lives and instead maximize combat damage to the enemy, as wounded men are about 4 to 5 times more expensive to any military force than dead men. A successful small arms femur shot takes a year to heal back into combatworthy status. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Debugging Throttle control in Native-ctrls
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:51:01 -0500, bass wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi all, I'm sending joystick input through Simulink in Matlab to Flightgear using the Native-ctrls structure. I am able to control everything pretty satisfactorily, everything except the throttle... its gone digital on me!!! It fluctuates between a one and a zero in almost a random manner when I vary the slider on the joystick. I know I've setup the input data right... its scaled between one and zero. ..this is the correct behavior for early WWI era planes powered with rotary engines such as the Gnome, Rhone and Oberursel rotaries, these were throttled by blipping the ignition off-n-on to cut power to a desirable level. If you're _not_ doing a rotary, it's a bug. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] New turbo/supercharger code
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 09:08:05 -0700, Andy wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Arnt Karlsen wrote: Andy Ross wrote: Yeah, but that's a bug. There is only one manifold pressure. Surely you don't want *both* mp-inhg and supercharger-output-inhg, which mean exactly the same thing. ..I beg to differ; flow always means there are flow losses. The discussion was about software, not engines. If you really want to nit, we should be modelling the MP as a 3D scalar field, so that the user can decide where to put the probe. :) ..aye. ;o) The point was that there is no need for a new property to represent the value displayed by the manifold pressure gauge. ..agreed, and my point was just keep open space for code modelling those losses, until it is written. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] RE: msvc7.1 compiling problem
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 19:14:06 +0200, Harald wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: eagle monart wrote: other problem is about strange rectangles in sim... I ve the same problem even in 0.9.8 release compile.. i can see these rectangles almost everywhere in clouds , on the sea and on the ground. here some screens http://www.geocities.com/fgscreens/fgfs-screen-011.jpg http://www.geocities.com/fgscreens/fgfs-screen-002.jpg http://www.geocities.com/fgscreens/fgfs-screen-005.jpg First time I see that, could it be a problem in the texture file ? Harald. ..I saw all but http://www.geocities.com/fgscreens/fgfs-screen-005.jpg, on 005, Geocities whines Sorry, this site is temporarily unavailable! The web site you are trying to access has exceeded its allocated data transfer. Visit our help area for more information. ..did I miss anything important, or is it the same rectangles? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Off Topic: Father's Day Card/Gift
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 17:03:19 -0400, Theo wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: If anyone needs a Father's Day card, I made this one for my Dad (one of those guys who has everything). It's non-flightsim related, but kind of tech-ish and completely free for use: http://www.wintergreen.ws/fathersday/present.html ..it better be, Konqueror shows a blank page, Firefox shows a grey rectangle. ..quit posting html mail and fix your page: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.wintergreen.ws/fathersday/present.html http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator/?uri=http://www.wintergreen.ws/fathersday/present.html http://validator.w3.org/checklink/?uri=http://www.wintergreen.ws/fathersday/present.html ..and use a capable swf maker, swfplayer segfaults. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Short Reference Document error?
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 19:33:19 -0500, Jon wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: So, you think the UK is part of Europe, eh? We use the same convention as the US for ./, Vivian. Heh. :-) What's above the number 4 (not on the numeric keypad)? Is it a $ or a ? (not sure that will print correctly)? ..a horn mine: tic-tic-tic ( ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] New turbo/supercharger code
On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 15:24:09 -0700, Andy wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Vivian Meazza wrote: OK with the name. PSI(gauge) is what we use over here, otherwise it's inhg absolute for the US. Gauge-inhg makes no sense. In real life there's no difference between the way the US and UK measure the pressure, it's the zero on the gauge which is different, so I think it's correct the way it is. Gives the right gauge readings anyway. In this case, gauge is important though: it indicates that the value is a delta (the difference between MP and ambient pressure) and not an absolute pressure. Do you not want this value? That is what is normally termed boost when one talks about super/turbochargers. I named it that way to distinguish it from mp-inhg, which in the current code reports supercharger output before the 'wastegate' is applied. Yeah, but that's a bug. There is only one manifold pressure. Surely you don't want *both* mp-inhg and supercharger-output-inhg, which mean exactly the same thing. ..I beg to differ; flow always means there are flow losses. The important thing is for the pressure, in whatever units you want (apart from gauge-inhg), is reported _after_ the 'wastegate' etc. have been applied to the supercharger output. So it sounds to me like all you wanted was mp-inhg in the first place... I'll just chuck the new properties. Andy -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] RE: msvc7.1 compiling problem
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 03:02:53 +, eagle wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: thank you guys , finaly compiled the latest source : )) but still i am looking for the puffy clouds that i saw in devel mailing list. How can I enable puffy clouds??? . I played with layers types and also enable 3dclouds in fgrun but didnt succeed. Also I everytime i compiled flightgear i see some rectangles on the ground and in the air..here are two screens http://s22.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3VSGYF2CMMS911EUK0QW4CFCSS http://s22.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0G451XWMBMCHN03PNCRTVFUWPA ..next time you wanna show us something, put it on a proper web server, not some damn spam site. If you have a spare box and can put it online for a week or more, quickest way is run http://damnsmalllinux.org off ramdisk, boot it off a cd image with ' dsl toram ', set up networking and the web server, dump in those screen shots and post the url here. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: old 3d clouds code
On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 09:35:23 +0100, Vivian wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Mathias Frhlich wrote On Mittwoch 15 Juni 2005 11:00, Vivian Meazza wrote: When browsing Mark Harris' web page I got the impression that he simulates the airflow. This one? http://www.markmark.net/clouds/ I can't find any reference in the site or the papers there to simulating airflow. It just renders clouds. http://www.markmark.net/cloudsim/index.html Look into that. I believed that this was integrated somehow. That looks phantastic and does things like that. Watch the video on the bottom of that page. Wonderful - just what we need! However, where's the code? I don't think it's what we have. The OpenGL stuff for download from Mark's site just renders cloud. This is Simulation of Cloud Dynamics on Graphics Hardware From his paper: 5. Hardware Implementation As mentioned before, we perform all of the numerical computation for our cloud simulator in the programmable, floating point fragment unit of a graphics processor. Hmmm. Have I got this one wrong? Mark's code (OpenGL) renders up to 51 fixed shape clouds. His lighting and shading is good. I like the way the aircraft penetrates cloud from an outside view. Harald's clouds are nicer, more varied, but perhaps not quite as well lit and shaded. The cloud penetration from an outside view could be improved (and I'm sure will be). Mark's code does not seem to be under active development, while Harald's is. I therefore support the retirement of Mark's OpenGL code. Of course, if we can go the Simulation of Cloud Dynamics on Graphics Hardware route, then wow! All bets are off. Anyone know how to program graphics hardware so that any/all cards would work? ..I proposed using the graphics hardware a while back, in January: Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Is this usefull for flightgear/jsbsim? Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Is this usefull for flightgear/jsbsim? Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ..Andy cautioned in Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] SP_FMDS
On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 09:54:28 +0200, Erik wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've noticed in the cockpit.cxx file the instance of ENABLE_SP_FMDS and a search uncovers a trail into the fg_init, config.h, as well as into the HUD.cxx files. There seems to infer the existance of special FDM's, although they seem to be disabled or hidden. Can anyone offer any information surrounding these Special FDM's ? Do they relate to particular aircraft? It's nothing fancy, currently it covers an FDM from a research group in Pakistan (ADA) and a helper FDM to replay ACMS files. See FlightGear/src/FDM/SP/ for more info. ..speaking of which; Are those Big-Overhaul-So-Lay-Off-cvs jobs done in the FG and JSBSim cvs trees? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] SP_FMDS
On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 22:09:18 +0200, Erik wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..speaking of which; Are those Big-Overhaul-So-Lay-Off-cvs jobs done in the FG and JSBSim cvs trees? As far as I know, yes (?) ..ok, I've seen no further notices yet in the *-announce lists. ;o) Subject: [Jsbsim-announce] JSBSIM CVS in TRANSITION Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Hurricane
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:07:13 +0100, Jon wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Erik Hofman wrote: Jon Stockill wrote: As he said - extensive studies of people who spent upwards of 8 hours at a time sitting in front of such instruments has shown that they're losing teeth and hair, their remaining hair is turning grey, they have mobility problems, and some are dropping dead. Oddly enough the same can also be said of the control group. What was th test period, 60 years? He was hinting at WW2 bomber crews, who probably spent more time in front of such instruments than anyone else. ..and they were trained to last how many missions? Sick. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] New turbo/supercharger code
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:26:33 -0700, Andy wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The cleanest solution at this point, IMHO, would to split out the x-charger implementation and do it twice: once for gear-driven superchargers and again for exhaust-driven turbochargers. ..these can re-use code between themselves, the most important differences between them is how the compressor shaft is spun, and how these superchargers are controlled. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Completely OT (but aviation related.)
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 03:50:18 +0200, Arnt wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:39:21 -0500, Curtis wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:14:09 -0500, Curtis wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://www.flightgear.org/~curt/Models/Current/MidwestCitabria/ If you scroll down a bit there's a take off picture (with the tail wheel just coming up) and then two landing pictures (notice the position of the airplane relative to the shadow.) ..but there were other arrivals? ;o) http://www.flightgear.org/~curt/Models/Current/MidwestCitabria/Link/IMG_2045.html That's one of my favorite non-flight pictures because of the sun angle. It's taken in my driveway so there was no flying that day. ..those prop tips, ... taxiing? ;o) One of these days it would be fun to rig up a wireless camera on board. I could do several flights with different camera placements and orientations, mix in some ground footage, set to music, and it could come out looking really cool. I've got an ultra cheap wireless video system, but it has horribly short range and horribly heavy batteries, and a really crappy camera so it's not very good for flying (and not much good for anything else for that matter.) :-) ..you're thinking about flying the video? Use those batteries in your 1/4 scale Colditz bath tub and wind up a generator spool and feed it magnetism off your magnetic prop drive flange. Tap that spool thru a diode bridge and a 7805, smooth things with a coupla capasitors each side of the 7805, and hike the 7805's 5.0VDC with a .3V zener diode to 5.3VDC. You want sound too. ;o) ..duh, you bought the Sullivan generator for $79! ;o) http://www.sullivanproducts.com/GenesysContent.htm ..for downlink, a pc-card or usb wifi/802.11 radio with an omnidirectional antenna in the airborne end, for the ground station, an aimed satellite dish feeding a cantenna, will cover miles: http://huizen.deds.nl/~pa0hoo/helix_wifi/linkbudgetcalc/wlan_budgetcalc.html ..how about AoA sensors for the flight computer? This is the only thing I see missing in an optics+gps based flight computer, a wee downwind gust can both break and make a slightly downwind computer landing. ..one way is gut a pc mouse for the diode pairs, electronics and mouse pin wheels, and ball case, cut the ball case in 2 to make 2 vane pin bearing mounts, glue vanes onto each mouse roller pin, and stick both vane assemblies outside the prop blast area, one for each wing. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Completely OT (but aviation related.)
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:40:23 -0500, Curtis wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..duh, you bought the Sullivan generator for $79! ;o) http://www.sullivanproducts.com/GenesysContent.htm Yes, I'm hoping I can rig up an onboard power system based on the genesys. For what I'll be doing, batteries would work fine too, but I thought it would be an interesting avenue to explore. ..according to Sullivan, you can hang 3 of those spools on one magnetic prop flange. You want a battery as backup and load damper. ..for downlink, a pc-card or usb wifi/802.11 radio with an omnidirectional antenna in the airborne end, for the ground station, an aimed satellite dish feeding a cantenna, will cover miles: http://huizen.deds.nl/~pa0hoo/helix_wifi/linkbudgetcalc/wlan_budgetcalc.html I was curious about the idea of removing the case from my Linksys WRT54G wireless router and powering that by battery. Supposedly it's running linux and is hackable, but I haven't played around with trying to hack into it yet. ..workable, especially for a signal relay plane. Also chk those nice nano-itx etc things Jon S suggested, some are _really_ sweet, chk out mini-itx.com/projects.asp and mini-itx.com/news/91875682/ . ..how about AoA sensors for the flight computer? This is the only thing I see missing in an optics+gps based flight computer, a wee downwind gust can both break and make a slightly downwind computer landing. That might be important for some airplanes, but the Kadet I've chosen is basically impossible to stall at any speed. ..lessee when you're loaded all the cool stuff in it. ;o) ..one way is gut a pc mouse for the diode pairs, electronics and mouse pin wheels, and ball case, cut the ball case in 2 to make 2 vane pin bearing mounts, glue vanes onto each mouse roller pin, and stick both vane assemblies outside the prop blast area, one for each wing. That's an interesting idea. My next step is to get my flight computer up and running and once I do that and get some basic code in place, I can start experimenting with other things. An RPM sensor and a CHT/EGT would also be nice additions. ..read the sullivan's AC frequency and the glow plug resistance. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Completely OT (but aviation related.)
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:14:09 -0500, Curtis wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://www.flightgear.org/~curt/Models/Current/MidwestCitabria/ If you scroll down a bit there's a take off picture (with the tail wheel just coming up) and then two landing pictures (notice the position of the airplane relative to the shadow.) ..but there were other arrivals? ;o) http://www.flightgear.org/~curt/Models/Current/MidwestCitabria/Link/IMG_2045.html -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] poll
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 01:50:21 +0200, Gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Le lundi 13 juin 2005 01:13 +0200, Gerard Robin a crit : Le dimanche 12 juin 2005 22:07 +0200, Arnt Karlsen a crit : On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 10:43:44 +0200, Paul wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sunday, 12 June 2005 09:22, Erik Hofman wrote: Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: I like that idea. It would be nice to fly along the coast of a tropical island, look down and be able to see the white sand under the water... or flying above a coral reef and see the corals on the sea floor. =) Seperating land and water will also allow tidal effects to be modelled. As for underwater exploration, I for one wouldn't mind taking the UFO down and see some underwater landmarks such as the Titanic. hehe. I think we're all getting carried away a bit. We are aiming at a professional *flightsimulator* to be used as a training aid, not for Hollywood film making. ...the funny thing is, FG _is_ useable for film making, and wasting some time on making an Hollywood film could easily land us some serious funding to do the things we wanna do. Erik Personally I don't care much for submarines and sealife in a flight sim. What Flight Unlimited did was when you crashed in water the screen went a murky water color and your altitude starts heading for negative figures. No fish, no sharks and no coral but you get the point that you just crashed into water and that should be sufficient in my opinion. ...true, but landing a sea plane in any significant weather, means we should model sea states, waves behave differently depending on things like currents, depth, wind etc, also on lakes and rivers. If someone wants to make a submarine simulator then they are welcome to make a fork of FlightGear and name it SubGear but I'm interested in aerodynamics and not aquadynamics. ...then we have the waves made by the aircraft floats. ;o) You are right and today we have to search for the best effect with an object animated like the aircraft shadow. I have tried to do it http://ghours.club.fr/Walrus-Villefranche1.jpg ..neat plane, but your sparkling waveless spray demos my point nicely, dunk a Walrus into 5 thru 25ft seas, and you'll find that the one ton big toothed seal can spank you mildly thru _roundly_, just like the water the plane lands or dunks into. ;o) May be with Sparkle we could get a better aspect And I forgot: Plib include some functions in _SSG Auxiliary Libraries_ which are very useful. ..useful to model physical forces? Or just to hit the degauss button remotely to simulate a nose punch? ;o) ..don't read me as we have enough fancy eyecandy, we need more of that too, but we also need running water here. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] poll
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 22:11:42 +0200, Gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It was said that we do not have to make the Hollywood quality movie and i agree. ..we have enough to get funding for the missing bits. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Completely OT (but aviation related.)
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:39:21 -0500, Curtis wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:14:09 -0500, Curtis wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://www.flightgear.org/~curt/Models/Current/MidwestCitabria/ If you scroll down a bit there's a take off picture (with the tail wheel just coming up) and then two landing pictures (notice the position of the airplane relative to the shadow.) ..but there were other arrivals? ;o) http://www.flightgear.org/~curt/Models/Current/MidwestCitabria/Link/IMG_2045.html That's one of my favorite non-flight pictures because of the sun angle. It's taken in my driveway so there was no flying that day. ..those prop tips, ... taxiing? ;o) One of these days it would be fun to rig up a wireless camera on board. I could do several flights with different camera placements and orientations, mix in some ground footage, set to music, and it could come out looking really cool. I've got an ultra cheap wireless video system, but it has horribly short range and horribly heavy batteries, and a really crappy camera so it's not very good for flying (and not much good for anything else for that matter.) :-) ..you're thinking about flying the video? Use those batteries in your 1/4 scale Colditz bath tub and wind up a generator spool and feed it magnetism off your magnetic prop drive flange. Tap that spool thru a diode bridge and a 7805, smooth things with a coupla capasitors each side of the 7805, and hike the 7805's 5.0VDC with a .3V zener diode to 5.3VDC. You want sound too. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] poll
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 10:43:44 +0200, Paul wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sunday, 12 June 2005 09:22, Erik Hofman wrote: Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: I like that idea. It would be nice to fly along the coast of a tropical island, look down and be able to see the white sand under the water... or flying above a coral reef and see the corals on the sea floor. =) Seperating land and water will also allow tidal effects to be modelled. As for underwater exploration, I for one wouldn't mind taking the UFO down and see some underwater landmarks such as the Titanic. hehe. I think we're all getting carried away a bit. We are aiming at a professional *flightsimulator* to be used as a training aid, not for Hollywood film making. ..the funny thing is, FG _is_ useable for film making, and wasting some time on making an Hollywood film could easily land us some serious funding to do the things we wanna do. Erik Personally I don't care much for submarines and sealife in a flight sim. What Flight Unlimited did was when you crashed in water the screen went a murky water color and your altitude starts heading for negative figures. No fish, no sharks and no coral but you get the point that you just crashed into water and that should be sufficient in my opinion. ..true, but landing a sea plane in any significant weather, means we should model sea states, waves behave differently depending on things like currents, depth, wind etc, also on lakes and rivers. If someone wants to make a submarine simulator then they are welcome to make a fork of FlightGear and name it SubGear but I'm interested in aerodynamics and not aquadynamics. ..then we have the waves made by the aircraft floats. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] property cloning solution
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:38:55 +0200, Gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Le vendredi 10 juin 2005 13:21 -0500, Dave Culp a crit : //FDMctr++; Tested with my own carrier landing patched release : IT IS OK == no clone now, JSB specific Functions working after reset. Thanks Gerard, I've commited the fix to the JSBSim CVS branches. Note that this will not allow multiple instances of JSBSim, which nobody is using right now (I don't think?). In the future we'll fix it so that the user instance of JSBSim is always the zeroeth instance, and other instances will start at instance number one. Dave As far as i try to understand, i don't find any specific needs which can ask for multiple instances of JSBSimmay be several aircrafts in the same FG (a waco glider towed by a -C47 ???) ..formation flight, comparing a JSBSim C47 to a YaSim C47 flying side by side? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] poll
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:36:35 -0400, Josh wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dave Culp wrote: This is a poll. Does anyone really want the FDM to allow flying under the terrain, or was that a misunderstanding by me? If nobody wants it then I think it should be disallowed. Maybe with the magic carpet FDM. Real FDMs though, no way. ..that hack would introduce a bug here: ;o) http://home.online.no/~hasto/reiser/hurtigruta/torghatt-hol-syd.jpg ..biggest one thru is a RNoAF TwinOtter on a partly autorized trip back in the Cold War days. It's a fairly safe bet this record will stand above any Cub stunt, or any Bird Dog stunt, as these are looser fits. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] poll
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:53:23 +0200, Frederic wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dave Culp a crit : This is a poll. Does anyone really want the FDM to allow flying under the terrain, or was that a misunderstanding by me? If nobody wants it then I think it should be disallowed. Fly under terrain : no Fly under bridges : yes Taxi under hangars : yes ..fly thru hangars and hear colorful language from TWR: yes ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] property cloning solution
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:16:06 +0200, Gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Le vendredi 10 juin 2005 22:59 +0200, Arnt Karlsen a crit : On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:38:55 +0200, Gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Le vendredi 10 juin 2005 13:21 -0500, Dave Culp a crit : //FDMctr++; Tested with my own carrier landing patched release : IT IS OK == no clone now, JSB specific Functions working after reset. Thanks Gerard, I've commited the fix to the JSBSim CVS branches. Note that this will not allow multiple instances of JSBSim, which nobody is using right now (I don't think?). In the future we'll fix it so that the user instance of JSBSim is always the zeroeth instance, and other instances will start at instance number one. Dave As far as i try to understand, i don't find any specific needs which can ask for multiple instances of JSBSimmay be several aircrafts in the same FG (a waco glider towed by a -C47 ???) ...formation flight, comparing a JSBSim C47 to a YaSim C47 flying side by side? STOP. i am becoming crazy :-/\ ..hush, we don't some white coats come grab you. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] poll
On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 01:44:39 +0100, Vivian wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Ampere K. Hardraade wrote hmm... flying undersea. Isn't that what submarines do? Nope ... they just float a bit lower down than surface ships. Hydrofoils fly. ..let's qualify fly; both submarines and airship can and often do use _some_ aero|hydrodynamic lift, usually the bulk is aero|hydrostatic displacement lift. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Main Airports Conflict with Graphic Card6600GT !!!
On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 15:45:40 +0200, Gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: IT IS UNUSUAL that i give the question and later on the answer :-) ..but very helpful for FlightGear and the next guys wonderng about the same thing, it also allows the Hell No!, you got it all wrong! because you post instead of keeping quiet about your solution. :o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] RE: R22 alpha version
On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:54:20 +1000, Mostyn wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: * Melchior FRANZ -- Monday 06 June 2005 09:16: I *HATE* competition! Please, make it go away! ... Fortunately, one could almost say that I have a *tiny* head start. So, don't panic ... panic? Whaahh ... Okay, crunchy! After consulting my therapist, I can only say: See you at Saturday, high noon in LOXL! http://members.aon.at/mfranz/duel.jpg [55 kB] Unless you pay me *one* *billion* *dollars*! Ha ha ha ha ... HA HA HA ... If you really want to take me on I can have my UH-1D Bushranger, or my AH-1G Cobra, or my Eurocopter Tigre converted within a fortnight. ..he said Saturday, high noon. ;o) Or I could just push your tiny toy helicopter into my Mi-26 Halo and fly off with it. I could even convert my Chinook or Skycrane and sling you off with that. At least when people get injured my H-13 will be able to fly in and evacuate the casualties to the nearest M*A*S*H unit. :) Cheers, Mostyn ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Terrain height below aircraft
On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:19:02 -0700, Drew wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Is there a reliable way to determine the terrain height below the aircraft that is independent of the view being used? I've tried the property /environment/ground-elevation-m, but when I use tower view, it returns the elevation at the view origin. I'm trying to develop an RC-type application, so knowing the height from the controller's position is worthless. How can I get the terrain height below the aircraft? It would be helpful if I could determine the height of any arbitrary lat/lon position, as well, if that's possible. ..think gun elevation, as in aim at it. I view your terrain height angle a detour, you fly either above _or_ in front of terrain, and orient your plane relative to yourself and vice versa, looking at it. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Airports Data + Zoom + SHIPs
On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 23:55:33 +0100, AJ wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tuesday 07 Jun 2005 23:16, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) I am using FGFS Version 0.9.4, I noticed that the Airport Data file extensions changed to tgz, does the data can be used on the version 0.9.4. Have you any reason not to upgrade? There's been a fair amount of improvement since 0.9.4 really. 3) Is there others boats, or just the sail boat? There's a working aircraft carrier! (it's working in CVS at least, I'm not certain about the last release.) It's great, by the way, those of you who worked on it - really impressive. Yet another way to have fun with the excellent Hunter and Seahawk! The way it travels through land is a bit disconcerting, mind you ;-) ..what, the US Navy sank the Canadian lighthouse??? ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Colditz Glider
On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 10:35:03 +0100, Steve wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sat, 2005-06-04 at 00:42, Josh Babcock wrote: OK, model's done, same address. Now I'm going to do the animation XML. If I'm really cool I'll be able to make the wind ribbon look good. Otherwise, just controls and control surfaces. Also, I didn't know what the rudder pedals looked like, so I left them out. I would assume that it's just a stick on a pivot which would be super easy to add. I'm not sure about historical accuracy though. Of course, the entire inside of the cockpit is a WAG anyway. Thoughts? For certain, it will just be a centre-pivoted piece of wood with two wires (probably connected to the far ends) running back to a similar piece of stick fixed to the rudder pivot. The POWs built the whole thing out of floorboards and intended it to survive just a single flight. They will have done nothing fancy. ..don't be too sure, I grew up with an unique music instrument on the wall, looks like a balalaika but is flat bottomed and has 4 strings, some russian folk music group members I met a few years back told me this was not a russian instrument they knew about. It was likely built in a WWII POW KZ camp at Trondenes just outside Harstad, Norway, those camps were set up to provide manpower to build an heavy gun batteriy (4x406mm) there from guns made surplus when Hitler grounded his navy, the inmates were mostly Soviet and Yugoslav army and guerilla POW's who were denied proper POW status. ..expect good workmanship on the floor board product, it was built to carry 2 POW's for about 5 minutes after being catapulted outta the attic by a bathtub full of concrete. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: R22 alpha version
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:58:52 +0200, Melchior wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: * Melchior FRANZ -- Monday 06 June 2005 09:16: I *HATE* competition! Please, make it go away! ... Fortunately, one could almost say that I have a *tiny* head start. So, don't panic ... panic? Whaahh ... Okay, crunchy! After consulting my therapist, I can only say: See you at Saturday, high noon in LOXL! http://members.aon.at/mfranz/duel.jpg [55 kB] Unless you pay me *one* *billion* *dollars*! Ha ha ha ha ... HA HA HA ... ..uhoh. Mostyn, you wanna keep him at rotor blade lenght and stay between his 2 inner rocket tubes until you get your own guns hung. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Building joystick hardware
On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:46:55 -0700, Andy wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Torsten Dreyer wrote: Well - it's not really a serial driver, the interface connects thru the handshake lines rts/cts and dtr with rxd and txd left unconnected since the LTC1090 speaks a synchronous protocol. Oh, heh. Well, if the hardware is non-standard, then one hack is as good as another. Never mind what I said, this is actually pretty elegant. Short of putting a microcontroller on your board, I have no suggestions. :) ..I see Torsten's boxes as R/C transmitters minus the transmitter plus a /dev/ttyS for the stick etc pulse train. All we need to do is read the pulse train signal and decode it like R/C receivers do, and output to the property tree instead of to the servo motors. As far as doing control line stuff from userspace, though, this is possible under Linux (and maybe elsewhere -- I'm not sure how portable these APIs are) using the TIOCMGET/TIOCMSET ioctl's with the TIOCM_RTS and TIOCM_DTR flags. Since you are using them for synchronous I/O, though, you will have to poll them to watch for changes on the clock line. Obvoiusly polling hardware from userspace is a recipe for disaster. ..oh? R/C gear uses a reset pulse pair (too short + too long or vise versa) to reset the R/C receiver decoder pulse counter. So can we. ;o) And a suggestion for your site: could you list sources and part numbers and sources for the components? The sliders in particular (with colored knobs, even) look really useful for throttles, and I haven't seen that kind of thing before. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Help... aircraft texture
On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:54:48 +0200, Melchior wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: When asked for the Compression Type, choose Aggressive RLE (Not supported by SGI). (This *is* supported by SGI, it's in SGI's own SGI image format spec. This compression type is supported by GIMP, KDE, ImageMagick, Blender, plib, ... and is the smallest that GIMP can write. (Could be made smaller by other programs. Just ask. :-) ..hey, what happened to RTFM? ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re:[Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS: data/Models/Airport beacon.xml, 1.8,
On Mon, 30 May 2005 08:50:43 +0200, Melchior wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: * Jon Berndt -- Monday 30 May 2005 00:26: Melchior FRANZ wrote: When you fly over a beacon, the ground cache has to eat all these triangles, which makes the FDM stutter or even hang. Is the ground cache for the benefit of the FDM? The FDMs are currently the only users of the groundcache, and yes, they benefit from it. A lot. Per-wheel/contact-point ground awareness hadn't been done before Mathias implemented the ground cache. And probably it would have been a big performance problem to constantly do intersection test with the whole tile. Still, I didn't mean to blame the problems on the FDMs. I just called it FDM stuttering because this is what the user sees (and because the ground-cache code is in the FDM/ directory :-) But the FDM only stuttered, because it wasn't called in time, because of unfortunate groundcache/beacon interaction. And that wasn't really a bug, either. Neither in the beacon, nor in the ground cache. Just a detail that had to be tuned for better performance. :-) ..so we need it on the ground, and immediately before impact. ;o) ..if we disable it at altitude, how much time do we need to load it immediately before impact ? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] Re: [Flightgear-flightmodel] Ground observer position
On Sun, 29 May 2005 14:38:24 +0200, Sam wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, I am trying to create a new view for my RC UAV. The view I would like is a ground observer, standing by the edge of the runway, near the aircraft. This is the view section I have included in my aircraft-set file: location ground-observer-lon-deg48.6124/ground-observer-lon-deg ground-observer-lat-deg63.1243/ground-observer-lat-deg ground-observer-alt-ft123.5/ground-observer-alt-ft /location view nameGround Observer/name typelookat/type config eye-lat-deg-path/location/ground-observer-lat-deg/eye-lat-d eg-path eye-lon-deg-path/location/ground-observer-lon-deg/eye-lon-de g eye-alt-ft-path/location/ground-observer-alt-ft/eye-alt-ft eye-roll-deg-path/sim/tower/roll-deg/eye-roll-deg-path eye-pitch-deg-path/sim/tower/pitch-deg/eye-pitch-deg-path eye-heading-deg-path/sim/tower/heading-deg/eye-heading-deg-p ath at-model type=booltrue/at-model at-model-idx type=int0/at-model-idx /config /view Questions: 1) When I add this to my file, the aircraft no longer loads (not displayed in the aircraft list) - which is not a good start! 2) What should I specify in the location section, so that any airport can be chosen and the observer always stands next to the runway? Thanks a lot! Sam ..this is not a FG FDM issue, but a FG-devel issue, so I CCFU there. ..I just chked the FG-devel backtraffic for tower view back, and found these posts and threads relevant to your idea: Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Boslough, Mark B [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'flightgear-devel@flightgear.org' flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Subject: RE: [Flightgear-devel] Multiple monitors Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 To: flightgear-devel@flightgear.org From: Michael Selig [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tower view From: David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlightGear Development flightgear-devel@flightgear.org X-Mailer: VM 7.00 under 21.4 (patch 6) Common Lisp XEmacs Lucid Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Rationalizing view Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] simple tower view From: Jim Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Translate linear model of Pioneer UAV to JSBSim? Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-BeenThere: flightgear-devel@flightgear.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: flightgear-devel@flightgear.org X-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Post: mailto:flightgear-devel@flightgear.org List-Subscribe: http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Id: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel.flightgear.org List-Unsubscribe: http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: http://mail.flightgear.org/pipermail/flightgear-devel/ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 9:25:6 +0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:12:32 -0400 From: Matt Fienberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:14:34 -0500 To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] RE: Instant replay system In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] .g ov.au References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] .g ov.au X-Mailer: VM 7.16 under Emacs 21.2.1 From: Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:53:49 +0200 From: Matevz Jekovec [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Lee Elliott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 22:16:32 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Wish-list idea From: Cameron Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Using Nasal for view calcs in preferences.xml Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mail-Followup-To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@flightgear.org References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 12:41:40 +0200 From: Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 15:51:49 -0500 From: Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:15:35 -0500 From: Curtis
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot
On Fri, 27 May 2005 15:26:58 -0500, Curtis wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Vance Souders wrote: I want to implement an acrobatic AI autopilot and was debating a few different ways of tackling the problem. I was thinking of either creating a spline based system or tuning the current autopilot to fit my needs. In a spline based system, the user can sit in the cockpit as the plane flies the spline if I do it this way, I would ignore the FDM and provide the gauges with bogus data that would most likely be interpolated from values specified at nodes along the spline. It seems to me that the spline system would be easier than getting the autopilot to do exactly what I need (precision formation flying, landing, taxiing). Im still investigating different ways of handling this, so Im open to any suggestions people can provide. I think it all boils down to what you want to accomplish. If you just need to see the aircraft going through the desired path then you could fake it ... but an autopilot that knows how to fly aerobatics would also be a really interesting project to tackle. It all depends on what you want to get out of it as the end result. ..I read him as wanting to do a RC F3A etc pattern work autopilot, this can both drift with the wind, and crab upwind to stay in the box, say taking a tournament program as input and just fly it, some guys fly these for a living. I managed to get my part of such a tournament at least as expensive, I shut down town, as in half of the city. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FDM freeze
On Thu, 26 May 2005 11:37:13 + (UTC), Martin wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dave Culp wrote: Lately I've been flying around German terrain and have been getting an FDM freeze at seemingly random occasions after flying for ten minutes or so. Here's a screenshot of the freeze: http://home.comcast.net/~davidculp2/fdm_freeze.jpg You should not do these manouvres with such an old aircraft ;-) I _might_ know a similar szenario. I thought I'd post a description last week but I held it back - until now. The effect _I_ see is that the FDM does _not_ feeze _immediately_ but instead it slows down at a very high rate and I get at least one or two more state changes. I'm able to reproduce the effect under the following circumstances: 1.) Choose the A-10fl, 2.) take off at EKOD, 3.) switch to some outside view, 4.) activate the autopilot to altitude-hold and select 800 ft, 5.) put EKSB as the first item on the list of waypoints, 6.) put EDXF as the second item on the list of waypoints. The aircraft heads towards EKSB at a constant altitude of approx. 950 (!?!?) ft. After arriving overhead EKSB the aircraft _should_ turn right to head for EDXF. The last picture I see is in the moment of having the aircraft right overhead EKSB, then I encounter a delay of about 15 sec. and the next frame I get shows the aircraft in the mid of the turn towards EDXF. With a bit of luck I get another frame about 20 sec. later. ..what happens if you slow the simulation by 15-20 times the clock time? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: FlightGear startup time
On Tue, 24 May 2005 14:26:17 +0200, Melchior wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: * Norman Vine -- Tuesday 24 May 2005 14:05: I guess I should mention the deficiencies of non MSoft OSs but I will leave the *flames* for another time :-) Yeah, don't bother. 99% of Windows users don't know alternatives, but 99% of Linux/Unix users *do* know Windows. Of course, there are deficiencies in Unix too (hmm ... game support?). But while deciding for Windows is mostly a matter of ignorance and inertia, ..you forgot viscosity here. ;o) deciding for Unix is a matter of reason. ;-) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Strange acceleration issues with 9.8---possibly terrain related?
On Tue, 24 May 2005 13:17:43 -0500, Wesley wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi all, I have Gentoo Linux 2.6.9 running on a 1 GHz Pentium III, with an ATI Radeon Mobility M6 card. ..and lspci calls it a what??? 1 or 2 years ago, I remember having FlightGear working properly. Now, I have no success, and someone on the IRC channel recommend I forward my issues to this list. First, the good news. If I delete all the terrain files, FlightGear starts, and runs with very acceptable framerates---although I'm just in the middle of a giant ocean. The bad news, is that with terrain files, it either doesn't start at all, or starts with frame rates on the order of 1 per every 10 seconds. ..you wanna see at least 10 fps, with everything turned on, I got 1-5 off an 128bit 128MB 9250 clone on an Epox MVP3G2 with an AMD K6-2 450MHz w 384MB ram. When it doesn't start, it's killed by the kernel for exhausting all of my 500MB of ram and 1GB of swap (ouch!). I've tried running it with everything disabled I could think of: specular highlighting, textures, enhanced lighting, etc. etc.. It would still either fail to start, or start and be unusably slow. glxgears gives me 700fps (as good as it's ever given me), and I have ..run glxinfo??? You want something like: name of display: :0.0 display: :0 screen: 0 direct rendering: Yes server glx vendor string: SGI server glx version string: 1.2 server glx extensions: etc xorg 6.8, and the xorg ati drivers (the ati drivers don't support my card). .._which_ ati drivers??? ..Debian Sid's XFree86-4.3.0.dfsg.1-13 looks like it can do X.org vintage tricks, judging by my /var/log/XFree86.0.log : (II) ATI: ATI driver (version 6.5.5) for chipsets: ati, ativga (II) R128: Driver for ATI Rage 128 chipsets: ATI Rage 128 Mobility M3 LE (PCI), ATI Rage 128 Mobility M3 LF (AGP),ATI Rage 128 Mobility M4 MF (AGP), ATI Rage 128 Mobility M4 ML (AGP),ATI Rage 128 Pro GL PA (AGP?), ATI Rage 128 Pro GL PB (AGP?),ATI Rage 128 Pro GL PC (AGP?), ATI Rage 128 Pro GL PD (PCI),ATI Rage 128 Pro GL PE (AGP?), ATI Rage 128 Pro GL PF (AGP),ATI Rage 128 Pro VR PG (AGP?), ATI Rage 128 Pro VR PH (AGP?),ATI Rage 128 Pro VR PI (AGP?), ATI Rage 128 Pro VR PJ (AGP?),ATI Rage 128 Pro VR PK (AGP?), ATI Rage 128 Pro VR PL (AGP?),ATI Rage 128 Pro VR PM (AGP?), ATI Rage 128 Pro VR PN (AGP?),ATI Rage 128 Pro VR PO (AGP?), ATI Rage 128 Pro VR PP (PCI),ATI Rage 128 Pro VR PQ (AGP?), ATI Rage 128 Pro VR PR (PCI),ATI Rage 128 Pro VR PS (AGP?), ATI Rage 128 Pro VR PT (AGP?),ATI Rage 128 Pro VR PU (AGP?), ATI Rage 128 Pro VR PV (AGP?),ATI Rage 128 Pro VR PW (AGP?), ATI Rage 128 Pro VR PX (AGP?),ATI Rage 128 GL RE (PCI), ATI Rage 128 GL RF (AGP), ATI Rage 128 RG (AGP), ATI Rage 128 VR RK (PCI), ATI Rage 128 VR RL (AGP), ATI Rage 128 4X SE (AGP?), ATI Rage 128 4X SF (AGP?), ATI Rage 128 4X SG (AGP?), ATI Rage 128 4X SH (AGP?), ATI Rage 128 4X SK (AGP?), ATI Rage 128 4X SL (AGP?), ATI Rage 128 4X SM (AGP), ATI Rage 128 4X SN (AGP?), ATI Rage 128 Pro ULTRA TF (AGP), ATI Rage 128 Pro ULTRA TL (AGP), ATI Rage 128 Pro ULTRA TR (AGP),ATI Rage 128 Pro ULTRA TS (AGP?), ATI Rage 128 Pro ULTRA TT (AGP?),ATI Rage 128 Pro ULTRA TU (AGP?) (II) RADEON: Driver for ATI Radeon chipsets: ATI Radeon QD (AGP), ATI Radeon QE (AGP), ATI Radeon QF (AGP), ATI Radeon QG (AGP), ATI Radeon VE/7000 QY (AGP/PCI), ATI Radeon VE/7000 QZ (AGP/PCI),ATI Radeon Mobility M7 LW (AGP), ATI Mobility FireGL 7800 M7 LX (AGP), ATI Radeon Mobility M6 LY (AGP), ATI Radeon Mobility M6 LZ (AGP),ATI Radeon IGP320 (A3) 4136, ATI Radeon IGP320M (U1) 4336, ATI Radeon IGP330/340/350 (A4) 4137, ATI Radeon IGP330M/340M/350M (U2) 4337, ATI Radeon 7000 IGP (A4+) 4237, ATI Radeon Mobility 7000 IGP 4437,ATI FireGL 8700/8800 QH (AGP), ATI Radeon 8500 QL (AGP), ATI Radeon 9100 QM (AGP), ATI Radeon 8500 AIW BB (AGP), ATI Radeon 8500 AIW BC (AGP), ATI Radeon 7500 QW (AGP/PCI), ATI Radeon 7500 QX (AGP/PCI), ATI Radeon 9000/PRO If (AGP/PCI), ATI Radeon 9000 Ig (AGP/PCI), ATI FireGL Mobility 9000 (M9) Ld (AGP),ATI Radeon Mobility 9000 (M9) Lf (AGP), ATI Radeon Mobility 9000 (M9) Lg (AGP), ATI Radeon 9100 IGP (A5) 5834, ATI Radeon Mobility 9100 IGP (U3) 5835, ATI Radeon 9200PRO 5960 (AGP), ATI Radeon 9200 5961 (AGP), ATI Radeon 9200 5962 (AGP), ATI Radeon 9200SE 5964 (AGP), ATI Radeon Mobility 9200 (M9+) 5C61 (AGP), ATI Radeon Mobility 9200 (M9+) 5C63 (AGP), ATI Radeon 9500 AD (AGP),ATI Radeon 9500 AE (AGP), ATI Radeon 9600TX AF (AGP), ATI FireGL Z1 AG (AGP), ATI Radeon 9700 Pro ND (AGP), ATI Radeon 9700/9500Pro NE (AGP), ATI Radeon 9700 NF (AGP), ATI FireGL X1
Re: [Flightgear-devel] today's 3d clouds commit
On Sun, 22 May 2005 23:23:49 +0100, Lee wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Saturday 21 May 2005 17:33, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Sat, 21 May 2005 10:54:30 +0100, Lee wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The system that has the problem is fitted with an ATI 9200 256MB card and I've had to use some drivers that I got via the developers of the 3d s/w I use for their s/w to work correctly (apparently there was a problem with GL threading in the standard drivers). .._which_ standard drivers? ATI's, XFree86's or X.org's? ATI's ..try X.org latest (or Debian Sid's XFree86 4.3.0.dfsg.1-13) radeon driver, with DRI turned on, it should perform better than ATI's. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] today's 3d clouds commit
On Sat, 21 May 2005 10:54:30 +0100, Lee wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Monday 16 May 2005 23:47, Lee Elliott wrote: On Monday 16 May 2005 13:42, Curtis L. Olson wrote: Dave Culp wrote: MenuBar-View-Rendering-Enable 3d clouds I can't get the new 3d clouds to appear here either. Same here. I don't get 3D clouds. Using CVS from ten minutes ago. I set the weather scenario to thunderstorm and I get rain. I select Enable 3d clouds in the Rendering options dialog and nothing happens. I'm pretty sure the new clouds don't work in 16 bit graphics mode. I have a laptop here I get to use once in a while and that has to run at 16bit graphics ... no clouds. I go down to my desktop with 24/32 bit graphics and I have clouds. Regards, Curt. Most definitely in 24 bpp here but still no go. I'll be able to test more systematically tomorrow. LeeE I just got everything running on a different m/c, with plib, SimGear FlightGear compiled from the same cvs state as the m/c with the problem and the latest 3d clouds work ok. It looks like the problem is due to the graphics card drivers. The system that has the problem is fitted with an ATI 9200 256MB card and I've had to use some drivers that I got via the developers of the 3d s/w I use for their s/w to work correctly (apparently there was a problem with GL threading in the standard drivers). .._which_ standard drivers? ATI's, XFree86's or X.org's? As it took quite a lot of effort to get it running and stable I've been reluctant to update so it's still using pretty old s/w, albeit with current cvs stuff. The system that works ok is fitted with a new nVidia 6600 256MB card that I've just got to replace the ATI one. Once I've replaced the ATI card on my main system I'll put it in a backup W/S as it'll be less critical to run the 3d modeller on it and I can afford to mess about with it more. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
