Re: [Flightgear-devel] anti windup for the pi-simple-controller

2010-03-10 Thread Torsten Dreyer
> I just greped through the current CVS aircraft and found the following > results: > > 51 Aircraft and the generic-autopilot uses the pi-simple-controller > > 49 of these aircraft and the generic-autopilot uses the > pi-simple-controller with a Ki of zero aka P-only > > the remaining 2 Aircraf

Re: [Flightgear-devel] anti windup for the pi-simple-controller

2010-03-10 Thread Gene Buckle
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010, leee wrote: > On Wednesday 10 Mar 2010, Martin Spott wrote: >> leee wrote: >>> On Wednesday 10 Mar 2010, Stuart Buchanan wrote: That might provide some idea of how much of an issue this is, though obviously doesn't address non-CVS aircraft. >>> >>> This is exactly th

Re: [Flightgear-devel] anti windup for the pi-simple-controller

2010-03-10 Thread Martin Spott
leee wrote: > On Wednesday 10 Mar 2010, Martin Spott wrote: >> In a continuous process of improving FlightGear there's no point >> in keeping an 'undesired' (or, in some cases even a buggy) >> feature as being the default just because some unknown 3rd party >> software _might_ depend on it. >> If

Re: [Flightgear-devel] anti windup for the pi-simple-controller

2010-03-10 Thread Torsten Dreyer
> On Wednesday 10 Mar 2010, Stuart Buchanan wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 3:55 PM, leee wrote: > > > There is always a risk associated with changing default > > > behaviour and the bottom line is that there is no immediate > > > need to do so, nor any overhead incurred by not doing so. > > > >

Re: [Flightgear-devel] anti windup for the pi-simple-controller

2010-03-10 Thread leee
On Wednesday 10 Mar 2010, Martin Spott wrote: > leee wrote: > > On Wednesday 10 Mar 2010, Stuart Buchanan wrote: > >> That might provide some idea of how much of an issue this is, > >> though obviously doesn't address non-CVS aircraft. > > > > This is exactly the sort of think I'd hope to see at th

Re: [Flightgear-devel] anti windup for the pi-simple-controller

2010-03-10 Thread Martin Spott
leee wrote: > On Wednesday 10 Mar 2010, Stuart Buchanan wrote: >> That might provide some idea of how much of an issue this is, >> though obviously doesn't address non-CVS aircraft. > This is exactly the sort of think I'd hope to see at the end of the > transition/notification period and just be

Re: [Flightgear-devel] anti windup for the pi-simple-controller

2010-03-10 Thread leee
On Wednesday 10 Mar 2010, Stuart Buchanan wrote: > On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 3:55 PM, leee wrote: > > There is always a risk associated with changing default > > behaviour and the bottom line is that there is no immediate > > need to do so, nor any overhead incurred by not doing so. > > > > This just

Re: [Flightgear-devel] anti windup for the pi-simple-controller

2010-03-10 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 3:55 PM, leee wrote: > There is always a risk associated with changing default behaviour > and the bottom line is that there is no immediate need to do so, > nor any overhead incurred by not doing so. > > This just seems like a commonsense policy to me, and was one of the >

Re: [Flightgear-devel] anti windup for the pi-simple-controller

2010-03-10 Thread leee
On Wednesday 10 Mar 2010, Curtis Olson wrote: > On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 9:27 AM, leee wrote: > > I agree that windup == bad and antiwindup == good, and that in > > a perfect world no one would have leveraged windup and that > > everyone would have implemented their PI simple controllers > > correct

Re: [Flightgear-devel] anti windup for the pi-simple-controller

2010-03-10 Thread Curtis Olson
On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 9:27 AM, leee wrote: > I agree that windup == bad and antiwindup == good, and that in a > perfect world no one would have leveraged windup and that everyone > would have implemented their PI simple controllers correctly. The > trouble is that It's not a perfect world. >

Re: [Flightgear-devel] anti windup for the pi-simple-controller

2010-03-10 Thread leee
On Wednesday 10 Mar 2010, Curtis Olson wrote: > On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 7:50 AM, leee wrote: > > As this would be a new feature, and one which might affect > > existing behaviours, I _really_ think it ought to be off by > > default. > > I really can't imagine any sane system that is designed to >

Re: [Flightgear-devel] anti windup for the pi-simple-controller

2010-03-10 Thread Curtis Olson
On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 7:50 AM, leee wrote: > As this would be a new feature, and one which might affect existing > behaviours, I _really_ think it ought to be off by default. > I really can't imagine any sane system that is designed to leverage windup as a feature. It's like closing your eyes

Re: [Flightgear-devel] anti windup for the pi-simple-controller

2010-03-10 Thread leee
On Tuesday 09 Mar 2010, Curtis Olson wrote: > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Torsten Dreyer wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I am about to commit a change that adds anti windup logic to > > the pi-simple- controller (FGPISimpleController) which > > currently lacks such functionality. > > > > The FGPIDContr

Re: [Flightgear-devel] anti windup for the pi-simple-controller

2010-03-09 Thread Curtis Olson
On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Torsten Dreyer wrote: > Hi, > > I am about to commit a change that adds anti windup logic to the pi-simple- > controller (FGPISimpleController) which currently lacks such functionality. > > The FGPIDController has some anti windup logic but that controller does not