Re: [Flightgear-devel] FGPiston patch RFC
On 12/20/2008 10:39 PM, Ron Jensen wrote: Here is a dynamometer test report of an engine intended for use in an aircraft: http://members.cox.net/alg3/Dynamometer%20test%20report.htm Ah, good, that's useful data. Please note especially the RPM v. Manifold Pressure chart at the end: http://members.cox.net/alg3/Dynamometer%20test%20report_files/image005.jpg The shape of this curve is the reverse of the curves you've postulated in your figure 3. It also remains above 28 inHg to nearly 5000 RPM. Your proposed model appears unable to duplicate this feat, as your full throttle line is below 0.94 (28 inHg / 29.92 inHg) MAP by 0.07 RPM. Then you may like these MAP (and power) curves better: http://www.av8n.com/fly/engine.htm The MAP curves stay higher longer ... and they are even concave down over part of the range, which makes them look more like the curves at that alg3 site. The analysis runs parallel to yesterday's analysis, except that I used a smarter model of the throttle, namely a nonlinear orifice plate model. This is more plausible physics and generates nicer-looking curves IMHO. While we're at it, please consider this dyno picture http://aagearinc.com/supercharged_na.gif Yes, its a motorcycle engine not an aircraft engine, but both function according to the same principles and studying one will lead to understanding of both. The red line is a normally aspirated engine. You can clearly see the power peak and fall off. OTOH please note the power output at the alg3 site. The power is a monotone increasing function of revs ... indeed a strongly increasing function of revs ... something that the physics model has been predicting would happen under *some* conditions ... but heretofore has been, ummm, unappreciated, to put it politely. The blue line is the same engine with boost. It produces linear power to the top of the RPM run because it can breathe. Let's not pick-and-choose the data. You can't point to the alg3 data and say the MAP must remain high and then point to the motorcycle data and say the engine can't breathe. Feel free to model one *or* the other. Feel free to switch from one model to the other, if you switch cleanly. But it doesn't make sense to ride both horses at the same time. -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] METAR interpolation?
I wrote : Csaba wrote: On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 11:38 PM, Stuart Buchanan wrote: The patch below backs out that change. Unfortunately this means the change to the cloud coverage due to changing METAR will not be reflected in the 3D clouds (2D clouds are unaffected). Unfortunately I don't think it will be possible to fix this before the release. I personally consider that a show-stopper (unless we disable 3d clouds in the release). Just to be clear: a) The patch I provided fixes METAR interpolation. b) However, it means that 3D clouds are not completely interpolated. A change in cloudbase will be interpolated (quite nicely). However, a change in cloud coverage (including the removing or adding of layers) will _not_ have any effect. I agree that its bad. Unfortunately I don't have time to fix it this weekend before the release. I've managed to fix this by differentiating rebuilding the 3D layers (e.g. due to METAR updates) from rebuilding the entire environment (due to a change in scenario). Could someone apply the attached patch please? Thanks -Stuart clouds.tar.gz Description: GNU Zip compressed data -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] CVS: SimGear/simgear/scene/model SGMaterialAnimation.cxx, 1.8, 1.9
* Melchior Franz -- Sunday 21 December 2008: Modified Files: SGMaterialAnimation.cxx Log Message: Merge branch 'master' of ../.sg.osg Whoops, sorry. I thought this problem with my git=cvs gateway wouldn't happen any more. The correct log text is the following (and it's also fixed in CVS): - shininess is in the rage 0..128 - restore fg/plib compatibility (there is/was no shininess group) (we may want to change that in the (near?) future, though) m. -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Doppler
* Maik Justus -- Saturday 20 December 2008: Is there any chance to get to know at compile time, that openal-soft is used? I haven't found anything specific in the header files. At runtime, alGetString(AL_VERSION) should contain ALSOFT . m. -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 1.9.0 ChangeLog Summary
Ladies and Gentlemen, Please find an announcement text and a short summary of the major developments that have been leading up to the 1.9.0 release. Please have a look and let me know if I have missed anything: If I'm correct, the binaries for the windows and Mac platforms are available, and Curt is trying to get the website up to date for the new release. It should be out officially very soon now... :-) Cheers, Durk - FlightGear-1.9.0 Announcement: FlightGear 1.9.0 represents a fundamental code rearrangement, incorporating over two years of development. After finishing the 1.0.0 release in December 2007, the FlightGear development team has directed their full attention to finishing the code overhaul that had already started in October 2006. The current 1.9.0 version of FlightGear is build upon the critically acclaimed OpenSceneGraph library, thereby widely expanding FlightGear's graphical capabilities. To make use of FlightGear's rich feature set, OpenSceneGraph 2.7.3 is minimally required. While the most dramatic changes to FlightGear have been taking place under the hood, the latest version does offer many new exciting features not found in any previous version. Some highlighted new features include: 1. Major new developments and features - Major overhaul of the graphics code. FlightGear 1.9.0 makes use of the OpenSceneGraph library - Easy setup of multidisplay systems using multiple OpenSceneGraph Cameras driven by one single instance of FlightGear. - Multithreaded 3D model loader leads to much smoother performance - New particle system based precipitation code - New dynamically configurable 3D Clouds. - pick animations, which allow for better clickable instrument panels - multiplayer specific on-screen menu - AI code can generate wingmen - At selected airports, it is now possible to start at a predefined parking position, as an alternative to starting at the runway. - Support for Lighter than air vehicles - Shader based tree rendering - Support for png textures - Detailed buildings at various airports and major cities around the world - Scenery can be kept up-to-date by downloading it from and SVN repository using TerraSync - Over 200 Aircraft are now available for separate download. 2. Code Improvements: - Improved Flight Dynamics - Several Improvements to animations - Improved behavior of Taxiing AI Aircraft. - Miscellaneous GUI improvements - Major improvements to FlightGear's route/waypoint manager code. - Improved runway management - Improved encapsulation of Navaids - Improved nasal scripting security - Improved behavior of VOR radios when close to their maximum range. - Configurable Heads up displays - Improved support of GPS instruments - Easier definition of AI traffic patterns - Improved accuracy of coastlines in the scenery -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FGPiston patch RFC
On Sun, 2008-12-21 at 02:50 -0700, John Denker wrote: On 12/20/2008 10:39 PM, Ron Jensen wrote: Here is a dynamometer test report of an engine intended for use in an aircraft: http://members.cox.net/alg3/Dynamometer%20test%20report.htm Ah, good, that's useful data. Please note especially the RPM v. Manifold Pressure chart at the end: http://members.cox.net/alg3/Dynamometer%20test%20report_files/image005.jpg The shape of this curve is the reverse of the curves you've postulated in your figure 3. It also remains above 28 inHg to nearly 5000 RPM. Your proposed model appears unable to duplicate this feat, as your full throttle line is below 0.94 (28 inHg / 29.92 inHg) MAP by 0.07 RPM. Then you may like these MAP (and power) curves better: http://www.av8n.com/fly/engine.htm The MAP curves stay higher longer ... and they are even concave down over part of the range, which makes them look more like the curves at that alg3 site. The analysis runs parallel to yesterday's analysis, except that I used a smarter model of the throttle, namely a nonlinear orifice plate model. This is more plausible physics and generates nicer-looking curves IMHO. At first glance that indeed does look better. There is still, however, two big hurdles to putting this into FGPiston: K (some constant) and a (area of the orifice). Given the data available in the configuration file, how do we create values for K and a for all engines from the smallest engines, like the Rotax582 in the Dragonfly to the Wasp R-5800s in the DC6? And across the RPM spectrum as well, Rotax engines tend to red-line in the 5800+ RPM range. Also, in equation (5) a variable O appears without introduction. While we're at it, please consider this dyno picture http://aagearinc.com/supercharged_na.gif Yes, its a motorcycle engine not an aircraft engine, but both function according to the same principles and studying one will lead to understanding of both. The red line is a normally aspirated engine. You can clearly see the power peak and fall off. OTOH please note the power output at the alg3 site. The power is a monotone increasing function of revs ... indeed a strongly increasing function of revs ... something that the physics model has been predicting would happen under *some* conditions ... but heretofore has been, ummm, unappreciated, to put it politely. The blue line is the same engine with boost. It produces linear power to the top of the RPM run because it can breathe. Let's not pick-and-choose the data. You can't point to the alg3 data and say the MAP must remain high and then point to the motorcycle data and say the engine can't breathe. Feel free to model one *or* the other. Feel free to switch from one model to the other, if you switch cleanly. But it doesn't make sense to ride both horses at the same time. There is no pick and choose. The inlet air pressure on the blue line is boosted above ambient, and the intake orifice is probably larger, too. If we drove the engine fast enough it too would start to fall off like the red line, assuming it didn't fly apart first! These two lines demonstrate power drop-off with throttling. The same engine develops both curves, the only difference is air flow. I am suggesting we should be able model both graphs by only changing theta(v)*a and A. Thanks, Ron -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 1.9.0 ChangeLog Summary
* Durk Talsma -- Sunday 21 December 2008: current 1.9.0 version of FlightGear is build upon the critically acclaimed built capabilities. To make use of FlightGear's rich feature set, OpenSceneGraph 2.7.3 is minimally required. While the most dramatic changes to FlightGear But 2.7.8 is recommended to avoid rendering bugs? Maybe this should be mentioned as well. 1. Major new developments and features - Major overhaul of the graphics code. FlightGear 1.9.0 makes use of the OpenSceneGraph library I'd also add other OSG capabilities that can now be used together with fgfs: various stereo view modes, on-screen statistics, ...(?) We have to sell the whole OSG transition, after all. :-) - New particle system based precipitation code - configurable XML particle animations for smoke, spray, fire, etc. - AI code can generate wingmen That's not strictly an AI thing AFAIK, but submodels with some Nasal controlling code, and it's only implemented in the Buccaneer. Still worth mentioning, of course. - Shader based tree rendering Should mention why this is an advantage: much higher tree density at same frame-rate. - Support for png textures and also jpg. (While they might not be well suited for (non-photographic) textures, they are good for splash screens.) IMHO missing point: - multikey command mode, where multiple key strokes form a command, e.g. :rc1f123 for radio-comm1-set frequency 123 m. -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 1.9.0 ChangeLog Summary
On Sunday 21 December 2008 18:05:33 Melchior FRANZ wrote: Thanks. I've added and fixed all these points. Cheers, Durk -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 1.9.0 ChangeLog Summary
Melchior FRANZ wrote * Durk Talsma -- Sunday 21 December 2008: current 1.9.0 version of FlightGear is build upon the critically acclaimed snip - AI code can generate wingmen That's not strictly an AI thing AFAIK, but submodels with some Nasal controlling code, and it's only implemented in the Buccaneer. Still worth mentioning, of course. snip Unless there are 2 wingman variants around, Durk's original description is more accurate. It is an AI function, not based on submodels. But, yes, only in the Bucc atm, although there's absolutely no reason to restrict it to this. I have one for the Camel almost ready, but not in time for this release. Vivian -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] FlightGear web site is updated.
Hi, In preparation for the official v1.9.0 release announcement, I've made many updates to the flightgear web site and download pages, including many updates to the aircraft downloads page. It would be great if as many people as possible could go through the web site and try the various links and make sure everything is working and there aren't any serious mistakes or pages that are way out of date. Aircraft authors should check out the entries for their aircraft on the aircraft download page, and make sure they like the thumbnail image and the version and authors are correct. These aircraft download packages as well as the download page is all autogenerated from scripts, and all the information about authors and versions is contained within your aircraft. If you have any questions, look at an example aircraft that does things the way you like. :-) Best regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear web site is updated.
Hi, In preparation for the official v1.9.0 release announcement, I've made many updates to the flightgear web site and download pages, including many updates to the aircraft downloads page. It would be great if as many people as possible could go through the web site and try the various links and make sure everything is working and there aren't any serious mistakes or pages that are way out of date. Aircraft authors should check out the entries for their aircraft on the aircraft download page, and make sure they like the thumbnail image and the version and authors are correct. These aircraft download packages as well as the download page is all autogenerated from scripts, and all the information about authors and versions is contained within your aircraft. If you have any questions, look at an example aircraft that does things the way you like. :-) Best regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ What's about the gallery? I think we bnedd many pics of our new features and aircrafts before we rally can start, or? -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear web site aircraft download page
Curtis Olson wrote: These aircraft download packages as well as the download page is all autogenerated from scripts, and all the information about authors and versions is contained within your aircraft. If you have any questions, look at an example aircraft that does things the way you like. :-) Hi Curt, On the aircraft download page I note: *A-10*: Fairchild A-10 (YASim FDM) tank-600-gals AN-ALQ-131 dual-AIM-9 LAU-68 triple-MK-82-LD single-MK-82-LD none none none none none none none none none none none Well I don't really know how to avoid this list of ordnances to appear... Wouldn't the script be overzealous ? Thanks for your help, Alexis -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear web site is updated.
Hi Curt, two pages are suspect : http://www.flightgear.org/Downloads/binary.shtml ( no mention of 1.9.0 ) http://www.flightgear.org/Downloads/ ( still 0.9.10 scenery ) Do you wait the announcement to update them. By the way, it is not clear that the direct links to the mirrors in the main page are for downloading the Windows version -Fred - Curtis Olson a écrit : Hi, In preparation for the official v1.9.0 release announcement, I've made many updates to the flightgear web site and download pages, including many updates to the aircraft downloads page. It would be great if as many people as possible could go through the web site and try the various links and make sure everything is working and there aren't any serious mistakes or pages that are way out of date. Aircraft authors should check out the entries for their aircraft on the aircraft download page, and make sure they like the thumbnail image and the version and authors are correct. These aircraft download packages as well as the download page is all autogenerated from scripts, and all the information about authors and versions is contained within your aircraft. If you have any questions, look at an example aircraft that does things the way you like. :-) Best regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Frédéric Bouvier http://my.fotolia.com/frfoto/ Photo gallery - album photo http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/ FlightGear Scenery Designer -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 1.9.0 ChangeLog Summary
I wrote Melchior FRANZ wrote * Durk Talsma -- Sunday 21 December 2008: current 1.9.0 version of FlightGear is build upon the critically acclaimed snip - AI code can generate wingmen That's not strictly an AI thing AFAIK, but submodels with some Nasal controlling code, and it's only implemented in the Buccaneer. Still worth mentioning, of course. snip Unless there are 2 wingman variants around, Durk's original description is more accurate. It is an AI function, not based on submodels. But, yes, only in the Bucc atm, although there's absolutely no reason to restrict it to this. I have one for the Camel almost ready, but not in time for this release. Ready sometime in the New Year, I would guess: ftp://ftp.abbeytheatre2.dyndns.org/fgfs/Screen-shots/Camel-wingman1.jpg ftp://ftp.abbeytheatre2.dyndns.org/fgfs/Screen-shots/Camel-wingman2.jpg ftp://ftp.abbeytheatre2.dyndns.org/fgfs/Screen-shots/Camel-wingman3.jpg The aircraft with the red V on the upper wing is in the livery of Capt Roy Brown, who was at one time believed to have shot down von Richthofen. Vivian -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] 1.9.0 packages for Slackware
The Slackware packages for the latest release are now available in the usual place: http://flightgear.stockill.org.uk Jon -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear web site aircraft download page
It was looking for description tags in the -set.xml file ... I changed it to stop looking after the first one. Curt. On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 4:48 PM, Alexis Bory - xiii alexis.b...@gmail.comwrote: Curtis Olson wrote: These aircraft download packages as well as the download page is all autogenerated from scripts, and all the information about authors and versions is contained within your aircraft. If you have any questions, look at an example aircraft that does things the way you like. :-) Hi Curt, On the aircraft download page I note: *A-10*: Fairchild A-10 (YASim FDM) tank-600-gals AN-ALQ-131 dual-AIM-9 LAU-68 triple-MK-82-LD single-MK-82-LD none none none none none none none none none none none Well I don't really know how to avoid this list of ordnances to appear... Wouldn't the script be overzealous ? Thanks for your help, Alexis -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
