Re: [Flightgear-devel] Projection system question

2012-02-14 Thread Arnt Karlsen
On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:59:21 -0800, Roy wrote in message 
4f382829.80...@gmail.com:

 Hi everyone,
 
 I've been speaking with some of the folks on the FG forum about a 
 problem I'm having, and I was recommended to contact this group for
 some possible help. I'm trying to build a sim using Paul Bourke's
 projection method. Simply put, you can achieve an immersive, 180+
 degree field-of-view using a single projector, a hemispherical
 mirror, and any geometry screen your wish (it could be a dome, a
 cylinder, or walls and a ceiling). You can get more details in his
 papers:
 
 http://paulbourke.net/papers/jmm/jmm.pdf
 
 http://paulbourke.net/papers/cgat09b/
 
 Paul was kind enough to share his code libraries with me that make
 this work. The problem, however, is that the code is written in C and
 uses the features of OpenGL, not OSG.  Here they are:
 
 domelib.h: http://codepad.org/i2EaRFsz
 
 domelib.c: http://codepad.org/42EVHWo4
 
 I'm not a programmer, so I have no idea if upgrading the code to use
 C++ and OSG is difficult or not. I'm also not trying to replicate his 
 process exactly. His method uses four different views to get a 
 180-degree field of view in all directions. When flying, horizontal 
 field of view is much more important than vertical. I'd like to get a 
 210-degree horizontal field of view and about a 118-degree vertical 
 (that's a 16:9 image). This isn't just for home use, by the way. I
 plan on using this setup at a flight school here and seeing how well
 it works as a training aid.
 
 Here's an experimental camera group I've developed to get the look
 I want (I'm not sure if it's useful for this discussion or not):
 
 http://codepad.org/zGfzR79D
 
 Any help or advice the community can give me will be greatly 
 appreciated! Also, if I can help in some way, please let me know. As
 I said, I'm not a programmer, but I am a flight instructor and
 part-time aviation faculty. So if I can help with things like
 training, human factors, or simulator fidelity, I'll help as much as
 I can.
 
 Finally, I know you folks are busy with the new build. If this is a
 bad time, I can ask again after the release date. Thanks in advance!

..hopefully, the guys will have enough self discipline to stay away from
something this kinky until they have the old hag (FG-2.6) out the door,
should be happening around the 17'th, I'm having my gear coming into my
new workshop home on the 16'th and the 17'th.

 Roy


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  best case, worst case, and just in case.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] The Douglas Dc 3 in GIT

2012-02-14 Thread Arnt Karlsen
On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 17:53:24 + (GMT), Pierre wrote in message 
1329069204.84188.yahoomail...@web29801.mail.ird.yahoo.com:

 On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 16:50:11 +0100, BARANGER wrote in message 
 4f37dfb3.4010...@free.fr:
 
 I always took the time to report the authors of the additions in my
 site because it seems normal for me. If the team of the PAF not
 appreciate the principle of respect of the original authors of the
 open source, they go to make aircraft for FS X or X Plane. In
 addition, it can make money
 
 Muaahahaha - ROFL! 

..it can, and in full compliance to the GPL. ;o)
A lot of anti-GPL FUD tries to peddle the belief that the GPL is
somehow anti-business.  You can charge anything you want for GPL
binaries, as long as you publish the source code at cost or on 
the web for free.

-- 
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...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-14 Thread Arnt Karlsen
On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 23:58:40 +0100, Clement wrote in message 
col120-w338be1e3c58ca9cef19e38c3...@phx.gbl:

 
 Hi Martin,
 
 The original author of the model is Emmanuel Baranger

..which answers the chicken-and-egg question any competent judge or
lawyer would ask on who decided on the license on this c47/dc3 egg.

 The original author of basic XML animation for model is Emmanuel
 Baranger The original author of instruments panel is Alexis Laille

..snip long incomplete list/

 DC-3 is Emmanuel Baranger (but need my intervention 

..nope, all you've got and will get, under the GPL and copyright law, 
is GPL compliance, e.g. with Emmanuel putting whatever he accepts of
your work into his own work, as source code, on a public git website. 


 for it works) ... ... ... The list can be very long :)

..and, it _must_ be _complete_, if you wanna litigate this.
If it is not, you will face the wrath of the court for 
frivolous litigation and or incompetence.
 
 But here it's not the problem of who is the author model. The
 problem is = the minimum politeness is to ask to the PAF team if we
 accept to see our contributions committed.

..if you built your own work on somebody elses work under the GPL,
you're stuck with the GPL.  Exactly like the Linux Kernel team is
happily stuck with Linus Benedict Thorvalds' dictatorship. ;o)

..if you don't like Emmanuel anymore, you may tell him what 4-letter
things to do, and fork your own _and_ his work, and move on without 
him, in e.g. your own gooneybird repository, under the GPL. ;o)

..if you don't like the GPL, it get's a little worse for you, ;oD
you'll need to ditch all your GPL work and watch Emmanuel et al carry 
on using it under the GPL, and you'll need to start all over again from 
scratch, with your own new thing, under your own favorite license.

..if you do it under the GPLv3 and catch up on FG, I just _might_ 
take a look. ;o)

 I know the GPL give the
 possibility to commit without asking anything

...but compliance.  It works pretty much like an highway speed limit,
you may drive on my road only on the condition that you drive below 
my speed limit, otherwise you may not be on my road at all.

 but here we speak about fair practice. 

..the fair use doctrine is not part of the GPL, it's part of copyright
law.  If e.g. Emmanuel takes one of your proprietary copyrighted
commercial airliner liveries and wraps it around a condom in a
gay porn movie, to mock you, he will be in full compliance with 
copyright law under the fair use doctrine, exactly because he is 
mocking you. ;o)

 When you decide to download a package from a website and upload it on
 your website and GIT the minimum politeness is to ask to the author
 of the improvement if he's agreed with this isn't it ?

..nope, the only requirement under copyright law and the GPL licenses,
is publish the source code too, if you publish _anything_, works 
like if you drive on my highway, stay below my speed limit.

.._nobody_ asks you to agree with a speed limit, and you may even try
to change it if you disagree, just get elected into office and pass
the law to change it.  Or, do it my way. ;o)

..use or usability, is irrelevant, what's relevant, is who owns what,
and, under which license did you publish it.


 Thanks you for your attention
 
 Cheers,
 Clément de l'Hamaide (F-JJTH)
 


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  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Scenery web and scene models

2012-02-14 Thread Jon Stockill
On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 19:43:17 + (UTC), Martin Spott wrote:

 To be honest, there's a lot of ugly cruft in some of the web site 
 code
 and the plan was to cast this into a nicer shape before making it
 public.  Unfortunately the plan was never pursued.

Actually it's *mostly* ugly cruft. I had intended splitting the logic 
from the page layout (my design skills are even worse than my code ;-) 
but that's been on my todo list for way too long.

-- 
Jon Stockill
li...@stockill.net

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sanitizing materials.xml

2012-02-14 Thread Emilian Huminiuc
On Monday 13 February 2012 22:13:04 Stuart Buchanan wrote:
 On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Emilian Huminiuc wrote:
  On Friday 10 February 2012 23:05:45 Stuart Buchanan wrote:
  Hi All,
  
  
  - The forest effect doesn't currently use the default fog effect
  (include_fog.[vert|frag] etc.).. For consistency with the rest of the
  terrain, and
the tree effect, I think it should. Is there any particular reason
  why it doesn't?
  
  -Stuart
  
  Hi, just an oversight on my part. I'll fix it ASAP.
  
  Emilian,
 
 Thanks very much Emilian.  I've also noticed a different bug with the
 ShrubCover landclass at high quality.
 
 http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=650
 
 I've made no headway in understanding the problem, other than possible the
 geometry shader doesn't set up gl_Fog correctly.  Any idea what's going
 wrong?
 
 -Stuart
 
Hi,
Pushed a fix for #650 into master.
Also got rid of an extra vec3 along the way.

If we're on the subject of materials*.xml:
1. could Construction, Industrial, Port be split from Urban/BuiltUpCover as 
they are now in materials-dds.xml?
2. We should remove big-apartment.ac from the urban areas. It's rather ugly, 
out of scale and pretty much pops up everywhere :(.
3. For urban/town areas I would do the same with water-tower.ac (for the same 
reasons as #2).
4. If we do #1 then we could limit oil-tanks.ac to those areas. Now you've got 
an oil-tank popping up in every village. (wish I had one of those in my 
backyard :P ).

Cheers,
Emilian

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sanitizing materials.xml

2012-02-14 Thread Martin Spott
Emilian Huminiuc wrote:

 If we're on the subject of materials*.xml:
 1. could Construction, Industrial, Port be split from Urban/BuiltUpCover as 
 they are now in materials-dds.xml?

I'd say yes - as soon as we have distinct textures for the different
types.
I don't think we need to have highly accurate textures for each of
them.  Just having different ones *now* is worth a lot more than having
different _and_ accurate ones next year.

Cheers,
Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Scenery web and scene models

2012-02-14 Thread Pedro Morgan
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Jon Stockill li...@stockill.net wrote:

 On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 19:43:17 + (UTC), Martin Spott wrote:

  To be honest, there's a lot of ugly cruft in some of the web site
  code
  and the plan was to cast this into a nicer shape before making it
  public.  Unfortunately the plan was never pursued.

 Actually it's *mostly* ugly cruft. I had intended splitting the logic
 from the page layout (my design skills are even worse than my code ;-)
 but that's been on my todo list for way too long.


Have you considered Smarty templating (am biased as am a developer)

Pete
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[Flightgear-devel] Re : Re : Scenery web and scene models

2012-02-14 Thread Olivier
Hi Pete,

May I suggest to make things step by step:

1. Finish the upload of all the concerned files to GIT ;
2. Update the sphere filesystem organization so the changes are easier to 
implement  (for the moment, each user has a specific access to the server and 
specific permission on files). Once all files are on GIT, we'll have to find a 
proper solution to reflect changes down to Sphere.
3. Once this step is done, we'll have a better view on the whole stuff, able to 
delete old files, make things common, etc.
4. Finish our to-do list (mostly mass import + 3D models import): this will 
save time for Martin and others - and enable him to work on other scenery 
important stuff.
5. Then, go on on big scenery-website enhancement (such as smarty, or others) 
to make things easier to maintain on the long term.

Oliver

N.B. : let's say Jon, Martin, and myself now quite have a good overview on how 
this works (at least for the real scenery stuff). We also have our RL 
timetables. With you, we would - will be 4. However, making cooperation work is 
something needing steps 1 and 2 to be achieved. Will be happy to welcome you on 
the 3 to 5 steps, but for the moment, we have to keep things simple - I'm sure 
you'll understand once all files are gitted.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sanitizing materials.xml

2012-02-14 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Emilian Huminiuc wrote:
 Pushed a fix for #650 into master.

Great. I'll try it out shortly. Thanks very much for looking at this.

 If we're on the subject of materials*.xml:

 1. could Construction, Industrial, Port be split from Urban/BuiltUpCover as
 they are now in materials-dds.xml?

Yes - this is on my ToDo list.

 2. We should remove big-apartment.ac from the urban areas. It's rather ugly,
 out of scale and pretty much pops up everywhere :(.

I'll check the scaling, and reduce the frequency. I personally quite
like the combination
of the urban shader and some additional random object (churches,
apartments etc.)

 3. For urban/town areas I would do the same with water-tower.ac (for the
 same reasons as #2).
This is probably a bug from me not keeping materials-dds.xml and materials.xml
in step.  water-tower.ac should be present for towns, but not urban areas.

 4. If we do #1 then we could limit oil-tanks.ac to those areas. Now you've
 got an oil-tank popping up in every village. (wish I had one of those in my
 backyard :P ).

Absolutely. I'm also going to get rid of one of the industrial models
that currently
covers a huge area with four or five separate buildings.  With the new masking,
this is better handled by placing individual buildings separately.

FYI I'm also going to reduce the saturation of some of the woodland textures.
At present they are a real emerald green, and over-saturated in my
experience.

-Stuart

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sanitizing materials.xml

2012-02-14 Thread Emilian Huminiuc
On Tuesday 14 February 2012 21:37:16 Stuart Buchanan wrote:
 On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Emilian Huminiuc wrote:
  2. We should remove big-apartment.ac from the urban areas. It's rather
  ugly, out of scale and pretty much pops up everywhere :(.
 
 I'll check the scaling, and reduce the frequency. I personally quite
 like the combination
 of the urban shader and some additional random object (churches,
 apartments etc.)

I wasn't suggesting to get rid of the random objects in urban areas.
I'm refering to that speciffic model, that big ugly yellow building (looks 
like a ) from above ). The rest are ok.

Emilian.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sanitizing materials.xml

2012-02-14 Thread HB-GRAL
Am 14.02.12 22:37, schrieb Stuart Buchanan:


 FYI I'm also going to reduce the saturation of some of the woodland textures.
 At present they are a real emerald green, and over-saturated in my
 experience.

 -Stuart

Hi Stuart

Which textures are you going to change exactly?

-Yves

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sanitizing materials.xml

2012-02-14 Thread Erik Hofman
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 17:30:37 + (UTC)
Martin Spott martin.sp...@mgras.net wrote:

 Emilian Huminiuc wrote:
 
  If we're on the subject of materials*.xml:
  1. could Construction, Industrial, Port be split from Urban/BuiltUpCover as 
  they are now in materials-dds.xml?
 
 I'd say yes - as soon as we have distinct textures for the different
 types.
 I don't think we need to have highly accurate textures for each of
 them.  Just having different ones *now* is worth a lot more than having
 different _and_ accurate ones next year.

There should already be an Industrial texture available. I made one way back 
that has been used for a while but was rendered unused when flightgear switched 
to vmap0 only.

Erik

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sanitizing materials.xml

2012-02-14 Thread HB-GRAL
Am 14.02.12 23:12, schrieb HB-GRAL:
 Am 14.02.12 22:37, schrieb Stuart Buchanan:


 FYI I'm also going to reduce the saturation of some of the woodland textures.
 At present they are a real emerald green, and over-saturated in my
 experience.

 -Stuart

 Hi Stuart

 Which textures are you going to change exactly?

 -Yves


Ok, I see now the forest textures/shader has really too high saturation. 
I confess this is some kind of unfinished work of me. I planned once to 
change ALL the textures. So I think recently the woodland saturation 
have to be changed- unless someone starts a shader/texture project for 
the whole thing?

I will try to contribute this year again probably, but first I have to 
check what came in with the new shaders from Emilian/Vivian (and others) 
and the new materials-dds etc.

Thank you all for your work!

-Yves

PS: And just to say it once here: Many thanks to Fred, Emilian, Vivian 
taking over my 2.x shader work, improving and fixing here and there, and 
working in and pushing so many important changes.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Re : Scenery web and scene models

2012-02-14 Thread Pedro Morgan
I got some spare time.. so thats why am purusing this..

What I'm actually doing is using SceneryWeb as a guineapig and r+n for Rl
job.. (in geotchnical testing)...

So ive created a pyqt interface GUI, with an embedded marblemap map, and
would like to  aquire data about scene models online via ajax.. so I can
splat on the map.. and being clever with which models are used where etc..

So the full web interface is not required really, merely a way to aqquire
the data machine to machine via ajax and preferably being able to page
by lat_lon and positions..

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 8:26 PM, Olivier acom...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Hi Pete,

 May I suggest to make things step by step:

I understand there's a lot involved.. am only looking at scenemodels
which is php application and looks complete gitfiles/etc,
More info about the server and its state and limitations would be
appreciated..


 1. Finish the upload of all the concerned files to GIT ;

afaik the scenemodels/ web is there completely, but am curious where the
$db* credentails come from.. , are there is a pre preocessor on php or
alike..

2. Update the sphere filesystem organization so the changes are easier to
 implement  (for the moment, each user has a specific access to the server
 and specific permission on files). Once all files are on GIT, we'll have to
 find a proper solution to reflect changes down to Sphere.

Not quite sure what Sphere is, but the scenemodels is not in sphere? umm
where are images stored..

3. Once this step is done, we'll have a better view on the whole stuff,
 able to delete old files, make things common, etc.
 4. Finish our to-do list (mostly mass import + 3D models import): this
 will save time for Martin and others - and enable him to work on other
 scenery important stuff.

Where is the todo list? or am i missing something


 5. Then, go on on big scenery-website enhancement (such as smarty, or
 others) to make things easier to maintain on the long term.


Am working on this.. think it will make it quicker in the shortterm also..
;-)


 Oliver

 N.B. : let's say Jon, Martin, and myself now quite have a good overview on
 how this works (at least for the real scenery stuff). We also have our RL
 timetables. With you, we would - will be 4. However, making cooperation
 work is something needing steps 1 and 2 to be achieved. Will be happy to
 welcome you on the 3 to 5 steps, but for the moment, we have to keep things
 simple - I'm sure you'll understand once all files are gitted.


is there a staging play server somewhere for the scenemodels web? if not
then I dont mind hosting one.. Only snag is I need the db databases and
subset of data, could even be a slave... or even ro to live db

Pete
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Re : Scenery web and scene models

2012-02-14 Thread Pedro Morgan
Actually can I ask some questions..and some feedback.. maybe..

1) the server is using mod python and php ?

how did it end up like that.. I;ve never succesfully actually managed to
run python so am dead curious..
Also I assume there are a few mod reqrites on the server to make index.psp
appear as homepage..

2) is there a platform target moving forwards ?
I guess not.. its an apache server.. rather than nginx

however i have two views about stuff, having moved apps from php to python
wsgi, I am now in a way backporting..

the python wsgi server has to be stopped for an update to occur, and
restarted.. with apache what is everyone..
with nginx, only the process needs to be killed and restarted..

php however is a script, so no wsgi server to update, just the file for a
hot patch/ uploaded via ftp or scp..

wsgi and nginx had the advantage of the url rewrite to be in the server
configuration.. wheras a mod_reqrite is something upon server.

3) everyone can play..
I think what would be useful is to create a scenery web  internationally,
so we can all share data somehow..

This means that I based in wales in Uk am only really interested in this
part, and could create new objects for my space.. eg a scholl
ciriculum..

having an api via ajaax to the backed DB of scenemodel is the only way to
do this safely and scurly without stressing the server...

anyway.. some thoughts.

/me in the meantime is knocking up a html interface, for fun ... ;-)

pete
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Re : Scenery web and scene models

2012-02-14 Thread Pedro Morgan
Can I make a suggestion;;

To split the sceneryweb into two repositories..
eg
fg-www-mapserver
fg-www-scenemodels

This is splitting the scenery data which is models and positions and
written in php
and the mapserver which is another caper...

Just a logical idea IMHO

pete
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re : Re : Scenery web and scene models

2012-02-14 Thread Pedro Morgan
Guys take a look at this in php
http://flightgear.daffodil.uk.com/index.php

code is here
https://github.com/ac001/flightgear-php

So what it boils down to is the fact that all of us are working on
different tangents in php// and alike..

So create a nice lib outta this for run on my machine here is possible..

Php is cool, we need to encourage users to download , investage the a ltest
scenemodels and place new ones on the scenery..Ie we wanna run a test
version first...somewhere somehow//

Lets face some facts in my local Area..
In the south wales area and connection to english person
There are two bridges across the severn bridge..
I would like the scene models for that..

Regardless of that, i would position a few sheds of significance along the
way..
eg
being a kid bored at home, place a  house or structure somewhere.. or add a
feature..

Regardless  of that the hit rate on this site is probably zeror..

So the interface we want to create is one of..
Well its the new fg=scenery-app
and am looking down satallitle level.. and some things are missings..

we need some buildings.. and traffic..

So to acieve that we need a RO only version so we can see whats wrong, and
then consider how to update///

is the kinda idea..

thinking out loud and sorry for verbosity... (and love u all for V)

pedro
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