Re: [Flightgear-devel] making sign of side-slip consistent between fdm (bug 901)
As in this image: http://dodlithr.blogspot.com/2011/09/airplanes-stability-axis.html Beta is positive when the wind hits the right side of the vehicle. This is the only standard convention I have ever seen. I would recommend strongly against artificially changing the sign of this parameter as output from JSBSim. Jon -Original Message- From: jean pellotier [mailto:jean.pellot...@wanadoo.fr] Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 6:27 AM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: [Flightgear-devel] making sign of side-slip consistent between fdm (bug 901) hi there, following this bug report: http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=901 it appears that orientation/side-slip-deg and side-slip-rad don't have the same sign, depending if it's a yasim or a jsbsim plane. is there a commonly adopted convention for this property? if not, shouldn't we document somewhere the meaning of the different fdm properties present in fg tree, to avoid such problems in the future ? jano --- --- See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from AppDynamics Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds. Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48808831iu=/4140/ostg.cl ktrk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from AppDynamics Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds. Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48808831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Positioning Aircraft: accuracy
It seems that we have a problem with the FG/JSBSim-interface or it's a rounding error during JSBSim-initialisation?! Summarizing my observations: - immediately after FG is started the property browser shows the correct values - this values hold true as long as the splash-screen appears - as soon as the splash-screen disappears and the plane pops up, the -- lon/lat values jump to the wrong (rounded?) values - I also noticed that the correct values in the property browser are displayed with the same numbers of digits as typed. Simultaneous with the jump to the wrong values the number of digits increases to their count for double values Maybe this observations help to debug this issue. Best regards D-NXKT How far off is the aircraft placement - how much is the jump? Is it many hundreds of meters, or on the order a meter or two, or just centimeters? Jon -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Turbulence should affect YaSim and JSBSim the same way
..my oversimplification: http://wiki.flightgear.org/YASim guesses how it flies from how it looks, while http://wiki.flightgear.org/JSBSim knows how it flies and tries to show us how that looks, e.g. stalls are assymetrical in YASim but (still?) symmetrical in JSBSim. ..if I guess FG progress correctly, we need to model downwash correctly, and if you want assymetrical stalls in JSBSim, you need 2 halved JSBSim models per plane so each wing etc surface calculation is run independently. I have not tried modeling a piston aircraft in quite some time. [Hal Engel's P-51D does stall in either direction, does it not?] In any case, it should be possible to model aerodynamic effects from the propeller in the XML model file for any JSBSim aircraft (in the aerodynamics section) - effects that would affect stalling, I suspect. It's not that JSBSim doesn't support asymmetric stalls - JSBSim doesn't *not* support it. But, I'm not sure anyone has crafted the aerodynamic/propulsion interactions that would effect that. This isn't necessarily the fault of users, either. We (JSBSim development community) would ideally make available more examples and documentation. JB -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim Synch with FlightGear
Ok, I have pushed the current JSBSim/CVS version to FlightGear git. Please check for and report breakages. In case of aircraft breakages compare aircraft behaviour before and after the JSBSim update, if possible, to determine if the breakage is new or not. Cheers, Anders That's great, thanks, Anders! Jon -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim Synch with FlightGear
Can I request that the current version of JSBSim that is in our cvs as of this moment be synched to FlightGear as early as convenient for the synch-er? What's the proper procedure? Jon From: James Turner [mailto:zakal...@mac.com] Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 1:22 AM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim Synch with FlightGear On 14 Jan 2013, at 02:57, Jon S. Berndt jonsber...@comcast.net wrote: When's the next released scheduled after the upcoming one? http://wiki.flightgear.org/Release_plan So, 7 months from now. While it would be good to have a new version of JSBSim, the whole purpose of the freeze is to give a stable target for testing against - replacing one of the FDMs with a significantly changed version definitely doesn't fit with that! I see Torsten has already updated that page with a new task to sync JSBSim when entering feature freeze - as he said, the process improves! Regards, James -- How ServiceNow helps IT people transform IT departments: 1. A cloud service to automate IT design, transition and operations 2. Dashboards that offer high-level views of enterprise services 3. A single system of record for all IT processes http://p.sf.net/sfu/servicenow-d2d-j___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Jsbsim-devel] about fdm properties
I agree that - at least - we should mention it in the documentation. We could hypothetically also accept data in any of the supported frames. Unfortunately, a lot of the data present in technical reports (NACA/NASA/AIAA) that I have seen is ambiguous as to frame for the rotational coefficients. When I get aero data it has usually already been reduced by the supplier. I do recall seeing aero data being supplied in stability frame, once. By default, we'll always assume rotational coefficients are expressed in body frame. We will think about adding support for other frames, but another thing I've done is to do the conversion inline as a function in the aerodynamics element. Jon - Reply message - From: Alan Teeder ajtee...@v-twin.org.uk To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Cc: issues Development jsbsim-de...@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Jsbsim-devel] [Flightgear-devel] about fdm properties Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 9:28 AM The problem is that it is not documented that JSBSim only accepts body axis derivatives/aero coefficients for the rotary axes. The linear axis has the choice of body or wind/stability axes. I had assumed (wrongly) that as it was not specified, the rotary axes used the same axis frame as the linear axes. The result was an aircraft that was unaccountably uncontrollable at high angles of attack. By posting here I was trying to bring this matter to Flightgear developers attention. I cross posted the same message to JSBSim and Datcom mailing lists. Jon Berndt has replied on the JSBSim list saying I don't recall seeing a set of rotational coefficients given in stability or wind frame. Unfortunately this is far from being the case. In my working life running the research simulator at BAC Weybridge the only body axis data that I can recall being given was for the Concorde, back in 1968/9. All other aircraft that I worked on used wind axis data. Datcom is of particular relevance to JSBSim FDM authors and gives its output in stability axes. Perhaps I should add this to the JSBSim bug list http://sourceforge.net/p/jsbsim/bugs/, but this still has open bugs from 2003/4. What is needed is at minimum is a documentation update. However, due to the number of Datcom based FDMs, it would be better to add full support for stability axes. I have cross-posted this to the JSBSim list. Alan -Original Message- From: Anders Gidenstam Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 3:41 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] about fdm properties On Fri, 3 May 2013, Alan Teeder wrote: It exposes a serious problem in JSBSim which affects all Datcom users. Isn't it rather a missing feature than a fault in JSBSim? The JSBSim documentation and axis names are fairly clear on that the moments are specified around the yaw, pitch and roll axes (but the origin is at AeroRP rather than at the body frame origin/CoG so additional corrections according to the parallel axis theorem are added based on the distance from AeroRP to the actual CoG). If the DATCOM - JSBSim input translation is faulty (I have no professional grounding in aerodynamics and I cannot tell) the best place to get it addressed might be at the mailing list/group for Bill Galbraith's DATCOM+ program (I think it is the most commonly used way to generate a JSBSim configuration from DATCOM): http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_datcom/ Cheers, Anders -- --- Anders Gidenstam WWW: http://gitorious.org/anders-hangar http://www.gidenstam.org/FlightGear/ -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book Graph Databases is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. This 200-page book is written by three acclaimed leaders in the field. The early access version is available now. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/neotech_d2d_may ___ Jsbsim-devel mailing list jsbsim-de...@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jsbsim-devel ___ The JSBSim Flight Dynamics Model project http://www.JSBSim.org ___
Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim Synch with FlightGear
On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Torsten Dreye wrote: Hi JSBSim and FlightGear lists, should we sync the latest JSBSim code into FlightGear for the next release, scheduled for February this year? My vote is not to sync at this point. I'd consider a JSBSim sync to be similar to feature development, particularly given the possible impact on a large portion of the FG fleet. Perhaps if it was only a day or so after the feature freeze we might be flexible, but 4 days before the release branch is cut is too late IMO. -Stuart I had hoped that we could do this a couple of months ago, but not synching JSBSim with the latest FlightGear would be very, very unfortunate. I'm not sure when the last sync occurred (does anyone know?), but there have been a lot of new features and bug fixes. Development has been very active. FlightGear will be very much behind the curve relative to the current JSBSim state if we don't synch. I've been driving FlightGear as an external visuals application from JSBSim lately, but I'd prefer to run sims fully integrated. I've got another reason for it to be integrated, but I need to discuss that with Curt offline, first. Jon -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_123012 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim Synch with FlightGear
Yes, i had hoped, too. However, as you mentioned, many new features have been developed and that violates our feature freeze rule, unfortunately. That rule has been introduced for exactly this situation: not to raise some last minute issues (to avoid bugs here). Sorry - but as we improve our plan with every release, this most likely will not happen again ;-) Torsten When was the last time that JSBSim was synched with FlightGear? Jon -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_123012 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim Synch with FlightGear
Sorry - but as we improve our plan with every release, this most likely will not happen again ;-) Torsten When was the last time that JSBSim was synched with FlightGear? Jon We synced about six months ago just before the last release of FGFS. Outerra will be more up to date than FlightGear with respect to JSBSim. :-( When's the next released scheduled after the upcoming one? JB -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122412 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] (JSBsim) body accelerations
hi, my two cents, as someone interested in better formation flight. First, about using FGAccelerations::GetUVWdot as acceleration, i'm not sure you will have what you want. i'm trying to do (slowly) something about the lag ( http://wiki.flightgear.org/Mp-patch ), and i tried to use UVWdot, but seems to me it give the dérivative of the speed in the aircraft reference, not the acceleration in ECEF, expressed in body coordinate. if the speed vector is stable/aircraft, UVWdot will be 0, but the the body acceleration can be huge in inertial referential. (that's how i understand the effect i see, and the UVWdot props variation in constant g turns, i didn't went to understand the jsbsim code ;) second, could it be possible to have a look at other fdm properties wich are inconsistent between yasim and jsbsim ? i think of velocity_wind_body (maybe a velocity_body is needed) (bug 202) and bug 901 (orientation/side-slip-deg) chears jano We probably need to provide some better documentation on this. Jon JSBSim Development Coordinator -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded
When the HUD no longer works, make sure you haven't deleted anything in FGDATA - like the fonts. You don't need to define the path to the base scenery (within fgdata). If you downloaded additional scenery, in one or multiple separate directories, you can separate the paths with : (works also on Windows). fgfs --fg-root=FGDATA_PATH --fg-scenery=CUSTOM_PATH1:CUSTOM_PATH2:... cheers, Thorsten Still no HUD symbology with the custom scenery. If I leave out the --fg-scenery option on the command line, I don't get my custom scenery, but I *do* get the HUD symbology. If I add in the --fg-scenery option, I do get the custom scenery, but not the HUD symbology. :-) Jon -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_nov ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded
Also, if I specify only the custom scenery path - as in the command line below - I get the errors that follow. Don't know if those are revealing or unexpected ... bin/Win64/fgfs.exe --fg-root=./data --fg-scenery=./scenery --aircraft=CitationX --native-fdm=socket,in,30,,5550,udp --fdm=external --airport=KCHS Cannot find Nasal script './data/Nasal/local_weather ... ... Nasal runtime error: non-objects have no members ... Jon -Original Message- From: Jon S. Berndt [mailto:jonsber...@comcast.net] Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 9:33 AM To: 'FlightGear developers discussions' Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded When the HUD no longer works, make sure you haven't deleted anything in FGDATA - like the fonts. You don't need to define the path to the base scenery (within fgdata). If you downloaded additional scenery, in one or multiple separate directories, you can separate the paths with : (works also on Windows). fgfs --fg-root=FGDATA_PATH --fg-scenery=CUSTOM_PATH1:CUSTOM_PATH2:... cheers, Thorsten Still no HUD symbology with the custom scenery. If I leave out the -- fg-scenery option on the command line, I don't get my custom scenery, but I *do* get the HUD symbology. If I add in the --fg-scenery option, I do get the custom scenery, but not the HUD symbology. :-) Jon --- --- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_nov ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_nov ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded
Am 11.11.2012 17:39, schrieb Jon S. Berndt: Also, if I specify only the custom scenery path - as in the command line below - I get the errors that follow. Don't know if those are revealing or unexpected ... bin/Win64/fgfs.exe --fg-root=./data --fg-scenery=./scenery --aircraft=CitationX --native-fdm=socket,in,30,,5550,udp --fdm=external --airport=KCHS Cannot find Nasal script './data/Nasal/local_weather ... Aha... You must not use relative paths on Windows. Only absolute paths are supported. Thanks for the reply. The path handling in FlightGear seems a bit delicate. Not sure if in Cygwin under Windows I need to be more unix-like, or more windows-like in specifying paths. I'll play with that some, but relative paths do work - at least selectively, for some things. I tried full unix-style path names, and that didn't work at all (couldn't find the base package). Jon -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_nov ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded
Well, I've tried all sorts of combinations of pathnames, using different path name specification forms (windows, linux, etc.) and I can get FlightGear to run using several of the forms - and to load the scenery I desire, as well - I cannot get both the custom scenery and the HUD symbology to work at the same time. Note that I am using the external FDM, if that makes a difference. Using full pathnames I was able to get rid of the Nasal errors - and now have no errors, but like I wrote, I still can't get both the HUD and custom scenery at the same time. :-( I'm currently suggesting that this is a bug. Jon -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_nov ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded
Well, I've tried all sorts of combinations of pathnames, using different path name specification forms (windows, linux, etc.) and I can get FlightGear to run using several of the forms - and to load the scenery I desire, as well - I cannot get both the custom scenery and the HUD symbology to work at the same time. Note that I am using the external FDM, if that makes a difference. Using full pathnames I was able to get rid of the Nasal errors - and now have no errors, but like I wrote, I still can't get both the HUD and custom scenery at the same time. :-( I'm currently suggesting that this is a bug. Jon BTW, the form I used that seems to work for path names in a Cygwin bash shell under Windows Vista 64 is: export FG_ROOT=C:\\cygwin\\home\\jon\\FlightGear\\data export FG_SCENERY= C:\\cygwin\\home\\jon\\FlightGear\\scenery Jon -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_nov ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded
Figured it out. Per the Wiki instructions for installing terrain, apparently you can't just download scenery into the $FG_ROOT path (it's still not clear to me why not). I have a new problem, now, though. I do see the scenery (when I get under about 6000 feet - until then I see only white fog) since I gave the path to the directory outside $FG_ROOT where I placed the terrain, but now I no longer get proper HUD symbology - the numbers aren't there anymore. Any suggestions on how I can do this? I'm not sure how I can set two scenery paths on the cygwin command line for starting FlightGear. Jon -Original Message- From: Jon S. Berndt [mailto:jonsber...@comcast.net] Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 3:59 PM To: 'FlightGear developers discussions' Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded Another thing: the Moon descends through the fog and is still visible - there doesn't seem to be any terrain that gets in the way and occludes it. Even when I am right on top of where the runway should be, there is nothing except blue water. Jon -Original Message- From: Jon S. Berndt [mailto:jonsber...@comcast.net] Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 3:53 PM To: 'FlightGear developers discussions' Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded I'm running the latest FlightGear (64 bit v2.8.0.5, under Windows 7). I'm driving it from an external instance of JSBSim, and it's working very well except that no terrain is loaded. I can see what looks like a planet below me that is covered in fog. Altitude ranges from about 40kft to 200kft, and then down again to an airfield at near sea level. It is very important that I get this running very quickly (within the next 24 hours) so I can make a video. I have downloaded the relevant scenery files and untarred them into the $FG_ROOT/Scenery directory. I downloaded the archives for the south east seaboard of the U.S. Any suggestions and help will be much appreciated. Jon - - - --- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_nov ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel --- --- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_nov ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_nov ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded
I'm running the latest FlightGear (64 bit v2.8.0.5, under Windows 7). I'm driving it from an external instance of JSBSim, and it's working very well except that no terrain is loaded. I can see what looks like a planet below me that is covered in fog. Altitude ranges from about 40kft to 200kft, and then down again to an airfield at near sea level. It is very important that I get this running very quickly (within the next 24 hours) so I can make a video. I have downloaded the relevant scenery files and untarred them into the $FG_ROOT/Scenery directory. I downloaded the archives for the south east seaboard of the U.S. Any suggestions and help will be much appreciated. Jon -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_nov ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded
Another thing: the Moon descends through the fog and is still visible - there doesn't seem to be any terrain that gets in the way and occludes it. Even when I am right on top of where the runway should be, there is nothing except blue water. Jon -Original Message- From: Jon S. Berndt [mailto:jonsber...@comcast.net] Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 3:53 PM To: 'FlightGear developers discussions' Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded I'm running the latest FlightGear (64 bit v2.8.0.5, under Windows 7). I'm driving it from an external instance of JSBSim, and it's working very well except that no terrain is loaded. I can see what looks like a planet below me that is covered in fog. Altitude ranges from about 40kft to 200kft, and then down again to an airfield at near sea level. It is very important that I get this running very quickly (within the next 24 hours) so I can make a video. I have downloaded the relevant scenery files and untarred them into the $FG_ROOT/Scenery directory. I downloaded the archives for the south east seaboard of the U.S. Any suggestions and help will be much appreciated. Jon --- --- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_nov ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_nov ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FSWeekend 2012...
... is already over now, unfortunately. For those who couldn't attend but are interested in what it was like (make sure to join next year!), here are some photos showing the event and FlightGear booth: http://www.flickr.com/photos/70866411@N05/sets/72157631926925511/detail / More details are probably to follow (maybe Durk will explain how he managed to reserve the hall's huge main projection screen exclusively for FlightGear - and how a silly broomstick is connected... :-) ). Thanks to every attending this year! Yet again, it's been a lot of fun :). cheers, Thorsten Did you run into Austin Meyer (X-Plane)? Jon -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fg Fuel System Changes
John,
Yes, there were some changes. I’ll try to help out soon, but am limited on time
at the moment. You might search the JSBSim mailing list for the “tank priority”
terms.
Briefly, as I recall, there is now a “priority” element, with priority “1”
being the highest. I forget if “0” means anything. Any tank with the same
priority provides fuel until all tanks of the same priority are empty. Then,
the next priority tanks are used (1, then 2, then …).
The “new” tank system was introduced by one of our developers who is also an
airline pilot. Unfortunately, I don’t think that the features is widely used,
yet – at least in models in the JSBSim repository. I’m using it in one vehicle
model now, but can’t share that.
I hope this helps. You might try cross-posting to the JSBSim developer list,
too. Let me know if you need more help.
Jon
From: castle...@comcast.net [mailto:castle...@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 10:41 AM
To: FlightGear developers discussions
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Fg Fuel System Changes
HI,
Had been running with fg-2.4 for some time and finally getting around to
upgrading to 2.8. Seems there where some changes to the fuel and tanking
system in JSBSiim starting with 2.6. It breaks the mods made to the code to
support the 737/747 full scale cockpits tanking models in 2.4 and prior.
In large aircraft such as the 7x7 types the fuel is NOT drawn equally from all
tanks. Rather, in terms of graph theory, you should think of the tanking
system as a fully connected graph for the tanks, engines, and crossfeed valves.
Such that any feed tank can feed any engine or all engines can draw from one
feed tank. The case where all tanks feed to a manifold that supplies all
engines is just one special case.
At any rate, is there a writeup on the changes? Or might the author find some
time to describe what was changed?
Having trouble understanding how to the FuelExpended variable to a specific
tank and how to pass the tank contents onto the flightgear side.
Here is how it works in my 2.4:
this was the mod to the FGEngine::ConsumeFuel(void) in 2.4
if ( Active_Tank = 0 ) {
Tank = Propulsion-GetTank(Active_Tank);
if (Tank-GetType() == FGTank::ttFUEL) {
//Fshortage += Tank-Drain(CalcFuelNeed()/TanksWithFuel); // SEE NOTE
ABOVE
Fshortage += Tank-Drain(CalcFuelNeed() );
}
} else Starved = true;
where Active_Tank was a value passed from the cockpit fuel control panel (via
network controls) to fg and the fg/jsbsim interface in jsbsim.cpp.
and this was the code to transfer fuel in the 737 model to the center feed tank
// Remove equal amount of fuel from each feed tank.
// FuelNeeded = FuelToBurn/TanksWithFuel;
// for (i=0; iFeedList.size(); i++) {
//Tank = Propulsion-GetTank(FeedList[i]);
//Tank-Drain(FuelNeeded);
// }
Tank_0 = Propulsion-GetTank(0);
double center_fuel = Tank_0-GetContents();
if ( center_fuel 6000.0 ) transfer = true;
else if ( center_fuel 9000.0 ) transfer = false;
if ( transfer ) {
Tank_1 = Propulsion-GetTank(1);
if ( Tank_1-GetContents() 100.0 ) {
Tank_0-Fill( 0.040 );
Tank_1-Drain( 0.040 );
}
Tank_2 = Propulsion-GetTank(2);
if ( Tank_2-GetContents() 100.0 ) {
Tank_0-Fill( 0.0401 );
Tank_2-Drain( 0.0401 );
}
}
So setting Active_Tank=0 has both engines drawing from the center tank and when
it drops below 6000# the fuel transfer system fills until it reaches 9000# or
the pilot can select, via the fuel control panel, to feed each engine directly
or crossfeed as desired. Setting Active_Tank=-1 starves the engine.
The 747 is much more complex and, in the interest of brevity, is not discussed.
The entire function ConsumeFuel is removed and having some difficulty
undestanding how FuelExpended is interfaced to draw down the tanks.
Any help would be apprecuated.
John
_
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fg Fuel System Changes
Here’s an overview of the fuel system from the perspective of a user – not a developer, but maybe it helps. Do you need the API documentation? Try here for a start: http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGTank.html Jon Here's an overview of the fuel handling in JSBSim now. At load-time the propulsion system (FGPropulsion) reads the configuration file and builds a list of engines and a list of tanks. Each engine creates a list of feed tanks using the feed tag. This list is only created at load-time, but in the future I'd like to see run-time control over this list. The list is owned by each FGEngine and is called SourceTanks. The list is the same size as the number of tanks, and each list item corresponds to a tank. At load-time each list member is set to zero, and when a feed tag is encountered the list member corresponding to that tank is set to non-zero. The engine will only feed from tanks that have a non-zero value in SourceTanks. The non-zero value happens to be equal to the tank's priority, but it's only treated as a non-zero in the ConsumeFuel() algorithm. It could just as well be zeroes and ones. This is, in effect, a map of all the tanks, representing which ones are allowed to feed this engine. The trick in making this run-time modifiable will be to decide on a scheme to allow one property to modify this map. Each tank has a priority value, with 1 being the highest priority. The default value is 1. The priority is an attribute owned by the tank, and it's exposed to the property tree, so the priority can be changed at run-time. Since the priority is owned by the tank, this means that all engines will see the same priority from a given tank. Setting the priority to zero is like closing a valve at the tank. So far this is the only valve you have control over in the fuel system. The SourceTanks list, belonging to each engine, can be thought of as a set of valves too. Each engine is connected to all tanks, but a valve at the engine is closed for each list member with a value of zero. When refueling is activated (by setting the property propulsion/refuel to 1 or true) fuel is added at the same rate to ALL tanks at a total transfer rate of 6000 lbs per minute, hardcoded. This code presently ignores tank priority. It also ignores what fluid is supposed to be in a particular tank, so don't use this with a rocket. The refuel code could use some work. When dumping fuel (by setting the property propulsion/fuel_dump to 1 or true) fuel is removed from ALL tanks down to any standpipe level previously defined at load-time for each tank. The dump rate is defined at load-time, and is the rate for the entire fuel system. This code ignores tank priority. If no standpipe is defined, all fuel will be dumped. Default dump rate is zero. Total fuel quantity is calculated in FGPropulsion::Run() and written to the property propulsion/total-fuel-lbs. Fuel temperature is calculated in FGTank::Calculate(), but only for tanks that had an initial temperature defined at load-time. Fuel quantity is always measured by weight. There is no method in the code for conversion to volume, and there is no tracking of fuel density. FGPiston does provide a gal/hr output, and uses 6.0 lb/gal as the conversion factor. FlightGear manipulates the JSBSim tank quantities by converting gallons to pounds in JSBSim.cxx, using a conversion factor of 6.6 lb/gal. Dave From: Jon S. Berndt [mailto:jonsber...@comcast.net] Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 7:27 PM To: 'FlightGear developers discussions' Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fg Fuel System Changes John, Yes, there were some changes. I’ll try to help out soon, but am limited on time at the moment. You might search the JSBSim mailing list for the “tank priority” terms. Briefly, as I recall, there is now a “priority” element, with priority “1” being the highest. I forget if “0” means anything. Any tank with the same priority provides fuel until all tanks of the same priority are empty. Then, the next priority tanks are used (1, then 2, then …). The “new” tank system was introduced by one of our developers who is also an airline pilot. Unfortunately, I don’t think that the features is widely used, yet – at least in models in the JSBSim repository. I’m using it in one vehicle model now, but can’t share that. I hope this helps. You might try cross-posting to the JSBSim developer list, too. Let me know if you need more help. Jon -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Physics engine of Flightgear
There are two primary ones: - YASim - JSBSim See: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Flight_Dynamics_Model Jon From: kunai...@yahoo.co.jp [mailto:kunai...@yahoo.co.jp] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 12:28 AM To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Physics engine of Flightgear Hello, I’m kunai. Now I use Flight gear but I have three questions. 1 Is there a physics engine of Flight gear in SimGear? 2 What’s name a physics engine? 3 If I study SimGear and physics engine, what should I do? I beg your kindness. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Quad-copters
If I'm not mistaken, there's already a quad copter flight modeled with JSBSim. Jon From: Curtis Olson [mailto:curtol...@flightgear.org] Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 7:05 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Quad-copters Quick question: Do we have any working/flying examples of quad-copters in FlightGear? One of my friends from the U of MN is involved in a cool quad-copter based kickstarter.com project: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/qfolabs/mimixtm-tilt-to-fly-controller-a nd-nanoqtm-copter It's fairly hackable so it might be a fun one to model in FlightGear, and maybe even be able to fly the simulated version with the real controller. Thanks, Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com http://www.atiak.com/ - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org http://www.flightgear.org/ - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org http://gallinazo.flightgear.org/ -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Quad-copters
Yeah, look here: http://diydrones.com/profiles/blog/list?user=0bcj6vzj8r2k0 Jon From: Curtis Olson [mailto:curtol...@flightgear.org] Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 7:05 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Quad-copters Quick question: Do we have any working/flying examples of quad-copters in FlightGear? One of my friends from the U of MN is involved in a cool quad-copter based kickstarter.com project: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/qfolabs/mimixtm-tilt-to-fly-controller-a nd-nanoqtm-copter It's fairly hackable so it might be a fun one to model in FlightGear, and maybe even be able to fly the simulated version with the real controller. Thanks, Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com http://www.atiak.com/ - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org http://www.flightgear.org/ - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org http://gallinazo.flightgear.org/ -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FW:Using FlightGear to visualize JSBSim state
I found that if I waited a little but longer so that FlightGear was completely started up, and used UDP instead of TCP that it worked. Great! -Original Message- From: Jon S. Berndt [mailto:jonsber...@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 6:03 AM To: 'FlightGear developers discussions' Subject: [Flightgear-devel] FW:Using FlightGear to visualize JSBSim state I've been trying to drive FlightGear from an external instance of JSBSim running, over a socket. Not having much luck at the moment. Looks like I have the correct net_fdm header (version 24). I start FlightGear like this: $ FlightGear/projects/VC90/Win32/Release/fgfs.exe --fg-root=c:/cygwin/home/jon/flightgear/fgdata --aircraft=c172p -- native-fdm=socket,in,60,,5500,tcp --fdm=external After that is started up I crank up JSBSim with an output specified in the aircraft config file like this (per the email from HDWysong): output name=localhost type=FLIGHTGEAR port=5500 rate=60/ In the JSBSim console I get this: Successfully connected to socket for output ... send: Software caused connection abort send: Software caused connection abort send: Software caused connection abort ... FlightGear immediately core dumps. Any suggestions? Jon -Original Message- From: Jon S. Berndt [mailto:jonsber...@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 5:20 AM To: 'Development issues' Subject: Re: [Jsbsim-devel] Using FlightGear to visualize JSBSim state That was it. Thanks. Although I did get FlightGear to start up in this mode, it core dumped when I tried to connect from JSBSim. I wonder if I need to update the net fdm header. Jon -Original Message- From: Anders Gidenstam [mailto:anders-...@gidenstam.org] Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:03 AM To: 'Development issues' Subject: Re: [Jsbsim-devel] Using FlightGear to visualize JSBSim state On Tue, 2 Oct 2012, Jon S. Berndt wrote: Not sure it does work: FlightGear/projects/VC90/Win32/Release/fgfs.exe --fg-root=c:/cygwin/home/jon/flightgear/fgdata --aircraft=c172p native-fdm=socket,in,60,,55p --fdm=external Processing command line arguments Fatal error: Failed to open file at native-fdm=socket,in,60,,5500,tcp (received from SimGear XML Parser) Did you drop the '--' that should go before native-fdm when transcribing the command line to the message? Or are they missing there too? If it is the latter SG tried and failed to open the file native- fdm=socket,in,60,,5500,tcp. Cheers, Anders -- --- - - - - Anders Gidenstam WWW: http://gitorious.org/anders-hangar http://www.gidenstam.org/FlightGear/ --- - - - - --- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ Jsbsim-devel mailing list jsbsim-de...@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jsbsim-devel ___ The JSBSim Flight Dynamics Model project http://www.JSBSim.org ___ - - - --- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ Jsbsim-devel mailing list jsbsim-de...@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jsbsim-devel ___ The JSBSim Flight Dynamics Model project http://www.JSBSim.org ___ --- - -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ Jsbsim-devel mailing list jsbsim-de...@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jsbsim-devel
[Flightgear-devel] FW:Using FlightGear to visualize JSBSim state
I've been trying to drive FlightGear from an external instance of JSBSim running, over a socket. Not having much luck at the moment. Looks like I have the correct net_fdm header (version 24). I start FlightGear like this: $ FlightGear/projects/VC90/Win32/Release/fgfs.exe --fg-root=c:/cygwin/home/jon/flightgear/fgdata --aircraft=c172p --native-fdm=socket,in,60,,5500,tcp --fdm=external After that is started up I crank up JSBSim with an output specified in the aircraft config file like this (per the email from HDWysong): output name=localhost type=FLIGHTGEAR port=5500 rate=60/ In the JSBSim console I get this: Successfully connected to socket for output ... send: Software caused connection abort send: Software caused connection abort send: Software caused connection abort ... FlightGear immediately core dumps. Any suggestions? Jon -Original Message- From: Jon S. Berndt [mailto:jonsber...@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 5:20 AM To: 'Development issues' Subject: Re: [Jsbsim-devel] Using FlightGear to visualize JSBSim state That was it. Thanks. Although I did get FlightGear to start up in this mode, it core dumped when I tried to connect from JSBSim. I wonder if I need to update the net fdm header. Jon -Original Message- From: Anders Gidenstam [mailto:anders-...@gidenstam.org] Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:03 AM To: 'Development issues' Subject: Re: [Jsbsim-devel] Using FlightGear to visualize JSBSim state On Tue, 2 Oct 2012, Jon S. Berndt wrote: Not sure it does work: FlightGear/projects/VC90/Win32/Release/fgfs.exe --fg-root=c:/cygwin/home/jon/flightgear/fgdata --aircraft=c172p native-fdm=socket,in,60,,55p --fdm=external Processing command line arguments Fatal error: Failed to open file at native-fdm=socket,in,60,,5500,tcp (received from SimGear XML Parser) Did you drop the '--' that should go before native-fdm when transcribing the command line to the message? Or are they missing there too? If it is the latter SG tried and failed to open the file native- fdm=socket,in,60,,5500,tcp. Cheers, Anders -- - - - Anders Gidenstam WWW: http://gitorious.org/anders-hangar http://www.gidenstam.org/FlightGear/ - - - --- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ Jsbsim-devel mailing list jsbsim-de...@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jsbsim-devel ___ The JSBSim Flight Dynamics Model project http://www.JSBSim.org ___ -- - --- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ Jsbsim-devel mailing list jsbsim-de...@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jsbsim-devel ___ The JSBSim Flight Dynamics Model project http://www.JSBSim.org ___ -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev ___ Jsbsim-devel mailing list jsbsim-de...@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jsbsim-devel ___ The JSBSim Flight Dynamics Model project http://www.JSBSim.org ___ -- Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev
Re: [Flightgear-devel] X-Plane sued for patent infringement
I tried to post, but it appears my post went away. I noticed that one of the comments made a remark about X-plane aerodynamics. I think it might be time for a paper on that which we can use to inform people. Jon From: Curtis Olson [mailto:curtol...@flightgear.org] Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 10:52 AM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] X-Plane sued for patent infringement I posted something to slashdot, but I guess it came out as anonymous coward. Honestly, there are a lot of sharp people that read slashdot, but for every one of them, there are 10 complete morons. And at least on slashdot, the dumber the person and the less information they are armed with, the more emphatic they will make their point. I personally don't have time to correct every statement on slashdot, especially with people that shout louder than me. And my comment probably is ranked so low no one will actually see it, but hey, I did put in 15 minutes of effort here. :-) If someone else wants to be the flightgear slashdot information correctness ambassador I will be happy to give you an appointment and give you an official title, and even an official email address. Curt. On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net wrote: On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 08:42:40 +0200, Tim wrote in message CAPK_1fyqmUGgLrEO8KEUPGNvUHb5Frcr=ypieemg7m_oyjn...@mail.gmail.com: http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/09/14/2048240/patent-troll-sues-x-plane It turns out that the patent has nothing to do with flight simulation but with remote license checking, but still. The Slashdot article has the line X-plane is a cross-platform flight simulator app, notably the only serious one that supports Mac OSX and Linux. In the comments the serious part refers to X-Plane being FAA certified. Now, I know that software isn't FAA certified -- complete systems --are and that FlightGear has been used in commercial simulators too, but someone (Curt?) with the real details might want to chime in with a correction. ..looks like Austin's big sin was make X-plane an Android app. Who are the other 8 app developers? ..he should have dual-licensed X-Plane, _much_ easier to find pro bono lawyer etc help with the GPL. Oh well. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com http://www.atiak.com/ - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org http://www.flightgear.org/ - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org http://gallinazo.flightgear.org/ -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Running Nasal at simulation rate
Concerning your original issue on implementing an autopilot: a much better way to do it is to avoid Nasal for the actual autopilot controller elements (numeric computation). Instead, use XML autopilot rules for the filter, gain, damper, integrator elements: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Autopilot_Configuration_Reference You can then use Nasal for the high level stuff, and enable/disable/switch the individual controller elements (e.g. in order to automatically switch the autopilot mode when capturing the ILS). There are some nice examples with fgdata/Git aircraft. You could look at the 777. This is also how such things are done in the real world: controllers aren't implemented in imperative programming languages these days - especially not in scripting languages. People use model-based design and connect controller elements - using graphical tools like MATLAB/Simulink. Obviously, FG is missing a graphical interface to specify the controller rules - but the idea of specifying through XML is the same and specification is straight forward. cheers, Thorsten I'd strongly agree with Thorsten here. It's nothing against Nasal from me - I've not even used it - but creating an autopilot (or any GNC or system model, for that matter) can be done very effectively with discrete objects such as summers, gains, controllers, filters, switches, etc., much as JSBSim has done with the system components. This is a standard approach in industry as Thorsten mentions as exemplified by Mathwork's $imulink product. Scilab/Scicos is similar in concept. Control system topologies are often diagrammed in a way that can lead to a one-to-one correspondence between a block and a control system object that can be referenced in an XML file, if the control system component library has been defined properly. This, again, is the way that JSBSim has approached the solution. Some benefits to such an approach include (IMHO) better testability, more predictability, and easier interface (someday) with a GUI tool, should one materialize. The downside is that XML can be verbose, but it's a price I've come to accept. Jon -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Gear transit times
Jack, Check out the attached message from the JSBSim developer list. Jon From: castle...@comcast.net [mailto:castle...@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 7:52 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Gear transit times Hi, Is it possible to specify gear up and down transit times for each gear? In real airplanes the gear never ( well rarely, maybe ) sequence in perfect unison. In reviewing the xml files for the 737, I note there are transit times defined for each flap position, but the kinematics for the gear is only a single value for up or down based on gear selection state. Is this something in Nasal? or native code or something in JSBsim? Thanks Jack _ ---BeginMessage--- Happy New Year everybody. I have been working on individual gear motion and failure for the last week and I think the result is usable. This change deals with the following: a) The gear position is computed for each individual gear if it is retractable and stored in a property named gear/unit[n]/pos-norm. The current implementation holds all gear positions in the property gear/gear-pos-norm. The suggested implementation does not break existing configurations that use gear/gear-pos-norm. b) To make a gear prone to failures, a actuator element may be used to drive each individual gear instead of a kinematic element. My configuration for the landing gear looks like this: channel name=Landing Gear actuator name=Gear Nose Actuator inputgear/gear-cmd-norm/input rate_limit0.1/rate_limit outputgear/unit[0]/pos-norm/output /actuator actuator name=Gear Left Actuator inputgear/gear-cmd-norm/input rate_limit0.13/rate_limit outputgear/unit[1]/pos-norm/output /actuator actuator name=Gear Right Actuator inputgear/gear-cmd-norm/input rate_limit0.15/rate_limit outputgear/unit[2]/pos-norm/output /actuator /channel Three files have to be changed for this: FGLGear.h introduces the method GetGearUnitPos() and two variables GearPos for the current gear unit position and useFCSGearPos, a flag for backward compatibility. FGLGear.cpp - implements GetGearUnitPos() which returns the current gear unit position. It checks if the useFCSGearPos flag is set or the gear/gear-pos-norm property has changed. This is for backward compatibility - binds and unbinds the gear/unit[n]/pos-norm properties the the GearPos variable JSBSim.cpp use the new gear-GetGearPos() method instead of FCS-GetGearPos() I have succesfully testet this with an existing unchanged configuration for the 737 and a modified configuration using the above example for the SenecaII. Here are FlightGear screenshots demonstrating the new feature: http://www.t3r.de/fg/gear-failure-1.jpg http://www.t3r.de/fg/gear-failure-2.jpg http://www.t3r.de/fg/gear-failure-3.jpg I hope this finds its way into JSBSim - it's fun to try a landing on a partially failed gear. Comments are welcome. The attached diff is against FlightGear cvs, but I can provide one against current JSBSim cvs. Sorry for the long posting. Torsten Hi, Torsten: Hey, don't apologize for the long posting - it usually means a lot of work has been done. :-) In theory, treating each landing gear individually seems like a good idea. In retrospect, I don't know why we didn't do it that way in the first place. The changes seem sensible. I'll look at this more at lunchtime. Unless anyone has any objections, I'll try to get this into JSBSim cvs in the next day or two. If I don't, please remind me and/or post a Feature Request at the JSBSim web site. I've been trying to address some of those in the past few days, and having the feature request and bug reports has been very helpful. Next, we probably should think about doing something similar for the spoilers, flaps, etc. - that is, treating them individually. I have some thoughts on that, but that's another topic. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Jsbsim-devel mailing list jsbsim-de...@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jsbsim-devel ___ The JSBSim Flight Dynamics Model project http://www.JSBSim.org ___ ---End Message--- -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Earthview - Orbital terrain rendering in FG
2) The high altitude FDM problem: Our only spacecraft (Vostok) makes just 150 km altitude, apparently to prevent it from running into a region where the FDM breaks down. This isn't nearly high enough to see nice orbit scenes without pushing gigabytes of textures at the problem. I have not really understood the reason in detail, but can the JSBSim people comment on that? Is it possible to get JSBSim to fly up to 3000 km, or to otherwise address this problem? Hi, Thorsten, Nice work. You ought to be able to initialize any vehicle at any altitude (up to and even beyond 3000 km). At this time, only the Vostok has control jets, as far as I know. Getting the initial conditions correct might take some thought and trials. If I have time over the next few days maybe I can come up with some initial conditions. I know how to specify these conditions in JSBSim, where we can select any of a number of reference frames, but I'm not sure how to have control over initial conditions in FlightGear. Specifying true airspeed certainly won't work. ;-) 3) Other Spacecraft: We currently have the X-15 (reaches barely 100 km and is in fact better with the default rendering engine), SpaceShip-1 (doesn't really fly, the rocket engine lacks the power to get anywhere, is also just a modern X-15), the Vostok (see above) and a Space Shuttle FDM. Given the Space Shuttle FDM and the discussion of Space Shuttle SRBs in the JSBSim model, it may just a wild stab in the dark, but does Jon have a complete flight-worthy Space Shuttle FDM somewhere? Our space shuttle orbiter model (from many years ago) is incomplete, and based on limited data from publicly available tech reports. I do have a J246 model that is a launch vehicle designed to place heavy payloads into orbit. That is incomplete, and awaiting some simple guidance for the upper stage to try and get it into orbit from the launch pad. A couple of years ago Robin Gerard made a 3D model of that, as well as the pad. It will be nice to see that fly someday. It's one of the things I would like to fly at some point. Now there is something to see in orbit, so maybe that makes it more interesting for 3d modellers and FDM developers to work on some more spacecraft? It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem, modelling orbital rendering isn't really so exciting without a way to fly there, modelling spacecraft isn't interesting without rendering - but I think there is progress. Right now, with Earthview FG looks better than Orbiter out of the box, although Orbiter has the support for hires texturing. But when you descend, Flightgear has a whole planet modelled in really high detail to offer :-) I'm glad to see more effort being put towards this. I think it could be a lot of fun, and educational, too. Jon -- This SF email is sponsosred by: Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 172p cockpit improvement
Ah, yes, found it in McCormick's Chapter six. Should we add some comment in c172p.xml as a reference for future generations? The computation is not very intuitive at first sight (at least for me). Torsten I think that's a very good idea. Also, I guess we should have some discussion on where the official version of some JSBSim aircraft should reside. I think I'll be culling some models from the JSBSim distribution - models that have been untouched for a long time. I'd like to issue a new release - a formal v1.0 release - on the JSBSim site soon, since I've been getting some polite pressure to do so. :-) It's important to maintain some good flight models in the JSBSim distribution, but I can understand the problems that dual-hosting can lead to. I don't have any suggestions in mind... Jon -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] turbine inlet temperature in the seneca (TIT)
Tuomas, I can say for certain that YASim does not model TIT, and I believe JSBsim doesn't either, though there seems to be a stub for TIT modeling which may be where that property comes from. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about JSBsim and TIT. A developer may have written custom code to model turbine inlet temp for a specific model, but I'm not aware of any examples. I'm currently working on a project that aims to handle multi-cylinder temperature reporting and yield results good enough to at least teach the concepts of best power/best economy and LOP operations. Unfortunately my effort doesn't yet model turbocharged engines. Since you're using the JSBsim-based Seneca II, you might want to consider working with JSBsim to add the necessary modeling for TIT, if it doesn't already exist. You might try posting on the JSBsim forum on this topic, as someone may already be developing this. -Gary aka Buckaroo You can implement pretty much anything you want to as a function in an engine specification or a system in JSBSim, as long as the variables that a function depends on are publicly available. Ask on the JSBSim list. I don't have time to answer now, but maybe someone else can. Or, I can provide an example and discussion later tonight - maybe. Jon -- Cloud Services Checklist: Pricing and Packaging Optimization This white paper is intended to serve as a reference, checklist and point of discussion for anyone considering optimizing the pricing and packaging model of a cloud services business. Read Now! http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51491232/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The state of things in Flight Gear
From: thorsten.i.r...@jyu.fi To provide the context: I wrote the above in response to pictures of Mars (from Celestia) being posted and talk about Apollo missions, i.e. having interplanetary missions in mind. (Jon actually knows that, because I explained it later in the thread :-) ) - something which my wording 'orbital flight' actually doesn't reflect. Yes - I wanted it to be understood that *Earth* orbital flight is possible. :-) I will be convinced that stability is not an issue here if someone demonstrates to me that a 4 month fast-forward running the simulation at a factor 1.000.000 time acceleration gets you a few 100.000.000 km later precisely where you're supposed to be. Gravitational slingshots require an incredible precision - you can't be 100 km off at target. Cheers, * Thorsten Yes. Jon -- Got Input? Slashdot Needs You. Take our quick survey online. Come on, we don't ask for help often. Plus, you'll get a chance to win $100 to spend on ThinkGeek. http://p.sf.net/sfu/slashdot-survey ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The state of things in Flight Gear
From: thorsten.i.r...@jyu.fi [mailto:] I think it's grossly unfair to mix these issues: Spaceflight requires to essentially write a space simulator. One of my first statements in the forum was: Orbital flights opens a whole new can of worms besides the need for different rendering - completely different physics, completely different numerical stability issues,... basically you want to write a new orbital simulator, because the amount of stuff you can really use from a flight simulator is pretty small. At one time I thought this to be true, but it is not necessarily. We have been working on JSBSim very hard over the past years (thanks to the efforts of Fröhlich, Coconnier, myself, and others) to make sure that JSBSim can handle orbital dynamics properly - because if orbital dynamic are handled properly, it's a good indicator that aircraft dynamics are, as well. We can now do a high altitude, high inclination, high-eccentricity, orbit (with the spacecraft rotating) and after one simulated day end up a few hundred feet from the spot in space where a well-regarded software tool (AGI's STK product) says we should be. The dynamics of flight are not really different at all. Stability is not a problem. I would disagree with your statements above and in fact my experience has been almost the opposite, except for the rendering problem, which I have no experience with. I have been approached to help with testing JSBSim with Outerra, however, and obviously they are doing rendering very well from space to ground. ... I still think that is a correct statement (up to the part that JSBSim seems adequately equipped to get ascent and descent right, although we don't know about long-term orbital stability - which wasn't clear to me when I wrote it)- so from where I am standing, you are claiming that Flightgear development is failing based on the observation that people could not write a spaceflight simulation in 6 months or tell you how to do that. Just my two cents. * Thorsten Given the criticisms of our high-altitude atmosphere model from previous discussions, I went ahead and revamped our atmosphere model. It's still a work-in-progress, but the atmosphere model should eventually be much more realistic at higher altitudes, and be useful for some limited spaceflight use. I have no idea how well a re-entering spacecraft will track along the expected trajectory, though. That remains to be seen. Personally, I would like to see FlightGear to be made usable for orbital flight, but I can imagine that would be a lot of work. Jon attachment: winmail.dat-- Got Input? Slashdot Needs You. Take our quick survey online. Come on, we don't ask for help often. Plus, you'll get a chance to win $100 to spend on ThinkGeek. http://p.sf.net/sfu/slashdot-survey___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] More realistic videos
I've noticed sometimes that the videos produced by the flightgear community have some characteristics that make them seem unrealistic - not that they aren't still enjoyable to watch. I look for new ones regularly. I think they could be better, though. There are some things that could be done that might make them appear more realistic, but I have no time or idea how to implement the features. One of the things I think would help is to allow the object being looked at by the camera (ostensibly the target aircraft) to drift from the exact center of the view. Looking at the exact center of the aircraft and keeping it in the center of the view looks artificial. There should be some force pulling the camera aim point back to center on the aircraft, but allowing the camera some delay and slop in exactly tracking the aircraft center would help, I think. And turbulence should be turned on. :-) My $0.02. Jon -- 10 Tips for Better Web Security Learn 10 ways to better secure your business today. Topics covered include: Web security, SSL, hacker attacks Denial of Service (DoS), private keys, security Microsoft Exchange, secure Instant Messaging, and much more. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51426210/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Turbulence in YASim vs. JSBSim
Note that the JSBSim environment model is in the middle of a major overhaul so I wouldn't make too much of it at this point. It would be more interesting to see how it compares after the rewrite. Erik The architecture is, but it should not affect the environment modeling. Also, the new code should not be in FlightGear, yet. The turbulence model is an implementation of a widely respected military turbulence model. It should be pretty good. My guess is that the commanding of it from the FlightGear side needs tweaking. Jon -- All of the data generated in your IT infrastructure is seriously valuable. Why? It contains a definitive record of application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2d-c2 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim new atmosphere
The way I understand this, the issues are to some degree separate (?). I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that what Jon is largely talking about is the altitude extrapolation of atmosphere conditions, i.e. given that I specify pressure, temperature and dew point at sea level, how will these change as a function of altitude. Within some reasonable set of assumptions, you can compute these by solving physics equations. What the weather system does is specify these values *at sea level* as a function of (lat, lon) - the altitude interpolation is still done by the built-in Flightgear atmosphere model, and as far as I know it'd be no problem to use the JSBSim atmosphere for that purpose instead. As far as the properties in /environment/ are concerned (I assume they're used by the FDM...), one'd probably just switch from one function calculating the altitude dependence of pressure from the sea level value to a different one. Cheers, * Thorsten Yes, Thorsten understands what I am asking. :-) In the new JSBSim standard atmosphere model - which is based on the information and algorithms in the U.S. Standard Atmosphere 1976 (USSA Document: NASA TM-X-74335) the atmospheric properties are propagated upwards to 86 kilometers in altitude based on temperature and pressure conditions at sea level or at altitude (in the case of temperature). If the default standard pressure and temperature are assumed, what results is the U.S. Standard Atmosphere. However, sea level temperature or pressure can be specified (in one of several units), and then the entire set of key atmospheric properties is recomputed for the entire altitude range. Additionally, not only can a simple temperature bias at sea level be specified, but an additional temperature gradient can be applied, allowing one to alter the standard lapse rates. This latter feature is an experimental one. Another feature I'd like to add at some point is one where some patchiness affects the atmospheric properties, so they are not 100% homogenous at an altitude and over time - sort of like adding some noise. I'm looking at the NASA Global Reference Atmosphere Model to gain some insight on how they do it. As part of this effort on the JSBSim side, the FGAtmosphere class has been modified as a standard interface for other atmosphere models which may follow. So, currently in JSBSim as it exists in our cvs repository, the temperature, pressure, density, viscosity, speed of sound, etc. are provided by the JSBSim atmosphere model. No other sources are used internally for those parameters, no matter what FlightGear does. The interface between FlightGear and JSBSim does (or will, when it is finished) modify the sea level temperature and pressure - although there is some facility for permitting conditions to be specified at an elevation (or altitude), which JSBSim then would transform into sea level conditions, and propagate properties for the rest of the altitude profile algorithmically. What is possible, but highly discouraged, is to permit FlightGear to specify a temperature and pressure at every timestep. A sea level temperature and pressure should be specified only at initialization or periodically as one moves geographically to a new area where weather is changed. Perhaps changing sea level conditions once every five or ten seconds would be often enough? Another thing that the new JSBSim standard atmosphere model does is to allow properties to be queried for a specified altitude, not just the altitude one is at. I guessed that on the FlightGear side there was a capability to express sea level (or ground level) conditions, and that atmospheric properties were determined from those. It would be good, however, to make sure that FlightGear and JSBSim are using very similar models. One thing that JSBSim does not ]yet] do is to model effects of water vapor in the air. According to the USSA reference document, water vapor plays a relatively minor role in atmospheric pressure and density calculations. The approach used in the reference document is to slightly alter the temperature used in calculating pressure and density, depending on the level of humidity present, IIRC. I'd be interested to see your calculations for air pressure when humidity is specified. Jon -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Data protection magic? Nope - It's vRanger. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] JSBSim new atmosphere
I'm working on modifying the interface between JSBSim and FlightGear to work with the new JSBSim standard atmosphere model. There are two or three ways that the atmosphere model can be modified by the calling application: A temperature bias can be added to the entire temperature profile (from sea level to high altitude) by using the SetTemperature() method: SetTemperatureSL(double t, eTemperature unit=eFahrenheit) Or SetTemperature(double t, double h, eTemperature unit=eFahrenheit) Units supported are eFahrenheit, eCelsius, eRankine, eKelvin. Using one of these will cause a bias to be calculated and used to modify the temperature profile. Setting the temperature will cause the pressure calculations to be re-run. A pressure can also be set using this methods: SetPressureSL(double pressure, ePressure unit=ePSF) Currently, only the sea level pressure can be modified. The available units are: ePSF, eMillibars, ePascals, eInchesHg. I may provide a way to set the pressure at an elevation. Neither pressure altitude nor density altitude are currently being calculated in the new standard atmosphere model - those will be added at some point. I should also add that with the new standard atmosphere model there is another way to modify the standard atmosphere temperature profile, but that would be done using properties and not through a standardized atmosphere API call. For more information, see the JSBSim API documentation at www.jsbsim.org/JSBSim/. The documentation has not been updated with the very latest, but it is still very current. Finally, note that the new standard atmosphere model has not quite yet been integrated with FlightGear, but that should be possible in just a few days. Jon -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Data protection magic? Nope - It's vRanger. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim new atmosphere
Torsten, Eventually, there will be a null atmosphere model that will allow flightgear to completely control the temperature pressure and density. There will also be several other atmosphere models available in future versions of JSBSim. I'd strongly recommend using the JSBSim atmosphere when flying JSBSim aircraft models. If there is an additional capability needed, we can probably add that, but I have to ask why fg would not use the JSBSim atmosphere model? Also, I don't recommend including this new model in the new flightgear release thats coming up. Jon Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on ATT Torsten Dreyer tors...@t3r.de wrote: I'm working on modifying the interface between JSBSim and FlightGear to work with the new JSBSim standard atmosphere model. There are two or three ways that the atmosphere model can be modified by the calling application: Hi Jon, since FlightGear has it's own atmosphere model, how will this cooperate with the new JSBSim's atmosphere model? What we should try to avoid is to have two competing models, one for the FDM and one for the other systems. Specially, the altimetry springs to my mind, which caused some trouble in the past. Finally, note that the new standard atmosphere model has not quite yet been integrated with FlightGear, but that should be possible in just a few days. May I ask to extend these few days until we created the release branch on July, 17th? I'd really like to give your new model a try, but prefer to have enough time for testing. Torsten -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Data protection magic? Nope - It's vRanger. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Data protection magic? Nope - It's vRanger. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] JSBSim Functions for Propwash and Downwash [was: Clarification on YASim input]
Hal, Oops! Sorry I attributed code to you that came from somewhere else. :-) I now seem to recall experimenting with your model at that time - actually replacing the older one in JSBSim cvs with yours, then adding the estimated propwash effects. Hal wrote: These were never in any of the code I worked with and were removed before I started working on the FDM. My current Cmde function looks like this: function name=aero/coefficient/Cmde description Pitch_moment_due_to_elevator /description product property aero/qbar-psf /property property metrics/Sw-sqft /property property metrics/cbarw-ft /property property fcs/elevator-pos-rad /property table independentVar velocities/mach /independentVar tableData 0. -0.9 0.66-0.6 0.74-0.4 1. -0.05 /tableData /table /product /function This is using the qbar-psf which is not influenced by prop wash. The Cmde function Jon has above has a lookup table that goes from MACH 0 to MACH 2 in a linear fashion. This looks like something intended for a supersonic aircraft and is not what I would expect from a subsonic aircraft. The table I am using goes from MACH 0 to MACH 1 and has a strong inflection at MACH 0.74 which is unlike the one in Jon's function since it is non-linear. Yes, the above mach effects table looks better. I can't remember where that came from. ... Jon thanks for the above code. I will look into integrating this into the current P-51D. Also shouldn't the same sort of thing happen with the rudder? Yes - in fact, in the version I have in JSBSim cvs, the modified qbar is used for: CLde, Cldr, Cmde, and Cndr. I haven't tested any of these for validity, though. And Jon do you have any ideas on how to go about writing a function to implement downwash pitch moment affects? Yes, that's another thing that could be done. I've thought about that sometimes, too. When the wing is generating lift, the airflow is being deflected downward behind the wing, and so the alpha that the tail sees is affected, since the normal airflow has been given an additional component in the body Z direction (downward from the pilot perspective). Also, if there is an appreciable pitch rate, the alpha at the tail is affected. Finally, if the propeller is producing thrust, then there is that affect, too. So, how do we calculate the alpha at the horizontal tail? I'm making this up right here as we go, but here are my thoughts. First, calculate the wind velocity that the H. tail sees: U_adjusted = U + U_prop Next, the Z axis velocity that the H. tail sees: W_adjusted = W + q*ht_arm - i_wing Where W is the aircraft Z axis wind velocity at the CG, q is the pitch rate, ht_arm is the distance from the CG to the horizontal tail, and i_wing is the induced velocity produced by the wing. At zero lift i_wing would be zero, and at lift=weight (such as at cruise) the i_wing value would be some value - and it might not be trivial to calculate what that would be, though you might be able to estimate it to produce a plausible qualitative effect. There is a NASA paper that might be helpful in calculating this: The Calculation of the Induced Velocity Field of a Wing. It is the translation of a technical paper by Klaus Gersten. It is NASA Technical Translation TT F-12, 436, and you can download it at this URL: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19690023298_1969023298. pdf. Anyhow, then, of course, the calculation is just this: alpha_tail = atan2(W_adjusted, U_adjusted) Maybe I've gone wrong somewhere here, but something similar might work. Also, in situations like a flat spin or tail slide this probably falls apart! Jon attachment: winmail.dat-- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSIm, aeromatic, crosswind taxiiing, et cetera
From: John Denker [mailto:j...@av8n.com] On 06/19/2011 06:46 AM, Jon S. Berndt wrote: Maybe I've gone wrong somewhere here, but something similar might work. Also, in situations like a flat spin or tail slide this probably falls apart! Let's postpone discussion of exotic flight conditions such as flat spins and tail slides. John, I agree, but the comment I made was more of a disclaimer than anything. The value of these features can hardly be exaggerated. For example, according to page 4-3 of the POH the maximum demonstrated crosswind for a C-172 is 15 knots. It is important for pilots to know what happens if they use soft-field takeoff procedure with a 15-knot crosswind. We do not want them to discover this the hard way, in a real airplane. It would be extremely valuable to have a simulator that faithfully models the real behavior. Et cetera. For more perspective and motivation, see appendix below. Returning to the technical issues: AFAICT the most fundamental issues are not JSBSim issues strictly speaking, but rather aeromatic issues. I agree, again. One problem with having a tool such as Aeromatic is that some people use it to generate the template and then don't modify it. Ideally, Aeromatic would be modified to produce better output in these circumstances. I might look into that at some point, but I'll need to find a 26 hour day lying around somewhere... ;-) Another constructive suggestion: While we are reorganizing the aircraft.xml file, we should get rid of the notion of lift due to alpha et cetera. I suggest a more faithful model would work with things like force due to wing and force due to elevator. As a first step, compatible with the existing approach, we can treat the wing as a whole. Then, later, as a second step we can model the wing in four parts: port outboard (with aileron), port inboard (with flap), starboard inboard (with flap), and starboard outboard (with aileron). This is AFAICT the only reasonable way to model the effect of flaps near the stall, the effect of flaps in inverted flight, the loss of aileron authority near the stall, et cetera. It is also the only reasonable way AFAICT to model swept wings. There is soon going to be a donation of JSBSim code mods that *may* be useful in implementing this approach. Stay tuned. I would be happy to discuss the details with anybody who wants to contribute in this area. If you do a writeup for this, it would be helpful. Jon -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Clarification on YASIM input (actionpt)
From: syd adams [mailto:adams@gmail.com] Does jsbsim ? I've just begun to look into it , so I don't really know jsbsim's capabilities. It's not automatic - not a natural effect calculated by JSBSim code itself. Like many things in JSBSim, the facilities are present to let the aircraft flight model developer add these kinds of things. The contributions from the tail, (such as moment due to elevator, lift due to elevator) are functions of alpha and qbar. Both alpha and qbar are affected by propwash, since propwash speeds up the airflow immediately behind it if it is producing thrust. When defining lift or moment contributions from the elevator, the alpha and qbar that are parts of that definition can be modified by a function that includes the effects of propwash. So, it's very configurable. You could even include the effects of beta (sideslip) so the effects are blended out if beta is too high. Here's an example from Hal's P-51D Mustang. This is from an old version, so it may have changed by now, but it illustrates the approach. In the aerodynamics section of the config file - but outside of any axis element - is this definition of qbar due to propwash: [Note: v is shorthand for value, and p is shorthand for property.] function name=aero/thrust-qbar_psf product v 0.5 /v p atmosphere/rho-slugs_ft3 /p pow sum p velocities/u-aero-fps /p product p propulsion/engine/prop-induced-velocity_fps /p v 2.0 /v /product /sum v 2.0 /v /pow /product /function Later, within the pitch axis definition, is this definition: function name=aero/coefficient/Cmde descriptionPitch_moment_due_to_elevator/description product propertyaero/thrust-qbar_psf/property propertymetrics/Sw-sqft/property propertymetrics/cbarw-ft/property propertyfcs/elevator-pos-rad/property table independentVarvelocities/mach/independentVar tableData 0.-0.8 2.-0.200 /tableData /table /product /function [Note that while this function definition is named aero/coefficient/Cmde it is not really a coefficient, but an actual moment in units of foot pounds. The coefficient part of the name is a holdout from years past.] In the second code snippet you can see the aero/thrust-qbar_psf property used. I hope this helps a bit. Jon attachment: winmail.dat-- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Could We Sync JSBSim for 2.3.0, Please?
Does the new atmosphere code work well with FlightGear's atmosphere? I remember we had some issues when fg and jsbsim were fighting for the correct weather values. But you are right - there are some nice new features we should have in 2.4.0. There will be four weeks starting tomorrow (feature-freeze) before we branch for the release. Plenty of time to fix what might be broken. I think Erik is our sync-master? Torsten I am very close to committing the new atmosphere code (and the new FGWinds) to JSBSim cvs. However, it would be prudent to first get a glitch or two fixed and then grab that code and put that in FlightGear first, just in case the newer atmosphere and winds code causes problems. Jon -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Atmosphere heads-up
There is a change coming to the JSBSim modeled atmosphere. A new standard
atmosphere class is being completed that models the U.S. Standard Atmosphere
(1972) all the way up to 1000 km. FlightGear interacts with the FDM
atmosphere in a predictable way, since the user may want to set conditions.
Currently, this is the code that permits the controlling application
(FlightGear) to control the atmosphere:
If the property /environment/params/control-fdm-atmosphere is set to true,
then the JSBSim atmosphere model is set to UseExternal and the Temp, Press,
and Density are set:
Atmosphere-UseExternal();
Atmosphere-UseExternal();
Atmosphere-SetExTemperature(
Atmosphere-SetExPressure(pressure-getDoubleValue()*70.726566);
Atmosphere-SetExDensity(density-getDoubleValue());
Otherwise, UseInternal is set.
Atmosphere-UseInternal();
Each pass through the copyToJSBSim function is called, these parameters are
set:
Atmosphere-SetExTemperature(
Atmosphere-SetExPressure(pressure-getDoubleValue()*70.726566);
Atmosphere-SetExDensity(density-getDoubleValue());
These have no effect if UseInternal is set.
That was the old way. None of these API methods are present in the new
model. The new way isn't here yet, but will be after the upcoming release of
FlightGear. As reported on the JSBSim developer mailing list,
I have submitted new updates to Codestriker for the new standard atmosphere
model if anyone wants to have another look at how it is shaping up:
https://sourceforge.net/apps/codestriker/jsbsim/codestriker.pl?action=list_t
opicssstate=0
The documentation is shaping up at the same time here:
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.htm
l
In the new version of the standard atmosphere model, external applications
such as FlightGear will be able to control the atmosphere by setting sea
level conditions, or at-altitude conditions using any of these API calls
(see the documentation at the second link, above, for more information on
these):
void SetSLTemperature
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml (double t, eTemperature
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml unit=eFahrenheit);
void SetTemperature
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml (double t, double h, eTemperature
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml unit=eFahrenheit) {};
void SetTemperatureBias
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml (double t, eTemperature
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml unit=eFahrenheit);
void SetSLTemperatureGradedDelta
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml (double t, eTemperature
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml unit=eFahrenheit);
void SetTemperatureGradedDelta
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml (double t, double h, eTemperature
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml unit=eFahrenheit);
void SetSeaLevelPressure
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml (double pressure, ePressure
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml unit=ePSF);
Several units are available for the setters - both metric and English. The
density is calculated from the temperature and pressure, so it is not
specified. The point of this is that the temperature - and the temperature
profile - are controllable by the calling application. The sea level
pressure can be set by the calling application. I will be adding the ability
to set the pressure at a particular altitude/elevation, but that's not ready
yet. These two items should allow a great deal of control over the
atmosphere, with the atmosphere remaining internally consistent.
The winds modeling have been moved to another class, FGWinds. Additional
wind effects are hoped to be modeled, such as downbursts, 1 minus cosine
gusts, etc.
Additionally, I am considering the modeling of temperature and pressure
turbulence, as well - slight fluctuations of those parameters based on
temporal and spatial conditions.
Comments?
Jon
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[Flightgear-devel] Atmosphere
What is the requirement from the FlightGear side for an atmosphere model? I'd like to remove the capability to drive the JSBSim standard atmosphere model from FlightGear, but first I'd like to get a clear picture of how FlightGear users interact with the atmosphere, if at all. Comments? Jon -- What Every C/C++ and Fortran developer Should Know! Read this article and learn how Intel has extended the reach of its next-generation tools to help Windows* and Linux* C/C++ and Fortran developers boost performance applications - including clusters. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Atmosphere
What is the requirement from the FlightGear side for an atmosphere model? I'd like to remove the capability to drive the JSBSim standard atmosphere model from FlightGear, but first I'd like to get a clear picture of how FlightGear users interact with the atmosphere, if at all. Comments? Jon In other words, this property: /environment/params/control-fdm-atmosphere Will then be deprecated and have no effect. Jon -- What Every C/C++ and Fortran developer Should Know! Read this article and learn how Intel has extended the reach of its next-generation tools to help Windows* and Linux* C/C++ and Fortran developers boost performance applications - including clusters. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim turbulence models: revealing an almost hidden gem
Credit the new JSBSim milspec/tustin turbulence model to some great work by Andreas Gaeb last September. Jon Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on ATT Torsten Dreyer tors...@t3r.de wrote: Great! Thank you! I really like the turbulence model of JSBSim- feels much more realistic than the one from YASim. All the credit for the model goes to the excellent JSBSim devs. I just built the bridge that linked it into FG. Torsten -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution. http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Vostok-1
Good description by Durk. If you want to know more about ascent guidance and control, this is an interesting and more basic look at that: http://www.aero.org/publications/crosslink/winter2004/06.html And this, http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2 http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2doc=GetTRDoc.pdfAD=AD0643 209 doc=GetTRDoc.pdfAD=AD0643209 Derivation of Linear Tangent Steering Laws. Jon From: Durk Talsma [mailto:durkt...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 10:17 AM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Vostok-1 Hi Curt, As far as I know, some of the early rocket models either had secondary attitude thrusters or deflector plates placed inside the main rocket exhaust. Modern types (i.e. anything from the 1950s onward) have used gimbaling main engines. If you watch prelaunch space shuttle footage, you can usually see the 3 SSMEs do a full motion cycle just before ignition. Additionally, some rockets, including the Saturn 5 first stage, used airfoils for improved stability. Also, the more sophisticated engines can throttle. IIRC, the Space Shuttle can throttle between approx 65% and 104% of its rated thrust. Typically it throttles back to 65 during a period of max dynamic pressure, just around the time of solid booster separation. At this time, it's already picked up quite a bit of velocity, but is still going through a relatively thick atmosphere. Interestingly, another challenge is to restart a rocket engine in orbit, because the liquid fuels are just floating around. The Saturn 5 third stage, needing to reignite for lunar trajectory insertion, had a separate set of solid fuel engines, which only served the purpose of pushing the fuels down in order to enable a restart. Rather fascinating if you think about what kind of extraordinary challenges space poses for things we take for granted Cheers, Durk On 18 Apr 2011, at 16:41, Curtis Olson wrote: I've never looked into it, but I've always wondered how (or how much) control they have over those giant rockets. I know the space shuttle flies a very precise profile and rolls over at a particular point, so they must have some good control. But I have never thought about how that control is implemented. Do they have secondary thrusters? Can they vector or deflect their thrust? Can they throttle? I know that some smaller rockets will spin along their longitudinal axis to help average out any built in imbalances and keep a stable course (probably the same idea as a rifle bullet.) Curt. On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net wrote: On Mon, 18 Apr 2011 06:31:09 -0700 (PDT), Gene wrote in message alpine.lfd.2.00.1104180630330.13...@grumble.deltasoft.com: On Mon, 18 Apr 2011, AJ MacLeod wrote: On Sun, 17 Apr 2011 00:39:52 +0200 Torsten Dreyer wrote: 156MB!? Isn't that a bit - huge? Maybe... but it looks like a fantastic model. If only I had the time to actually work out how to fly it :-) Really impressive work though. Fly it? I thought you just lit a match and then did your best to hang on until the big noisy thing at the other end runs out of gas. :) g. ..fly it, means control it well enough to do e.g. touch-n-go's at will, not by accident. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com http://www.atiak.com/ - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org http://www.flightgear.org/ - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org http://gallinazo.flightgear.org/ -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Vostok-1
Take a look at the J246 model in the JSBSim distribution or in our CVS browser. That's a hypothetical heavy launch vehicle flight model that is under (slow) development. Jon -Original Message- From: AJ MacLeod [mailto:aj-li...@adeptopensource.co.uk] Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 6:24 AM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Vostok-1 On Sun, 17 Apr 2011 00:39:52 +0200 Torsten Dreyer wrote: 156MB!? Isn't that a bit - huge? Maybe... but it looks like a fantastic model. If only I had the time to actually work out how to fly it :-) Really impressive work though. -- --- --- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware- sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Vostok-1
I thought I was going to post the first rocket but it looks like you beat me to it! :-) Cool! Jon Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on ATT -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Vostok-1
What perfect timing for this model too, given the recent 50th anniversary of Yuri Gagarin's first human spaceflight. Jon Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on ATT -- Benefiting from Server Virtualization: Beyond Initial Workload Consolidation -- Increasing the use of server virtualization is a top priority.Virtualization can reduce costs, simplify management, and improve application availability and disaster protection. Learn more about boosting the value of server virtualization. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Building FlightGear with MSVC++ 10.0
I didn't find a project file for building FlightGear with MSVC++ Express 2010. Is there one yet? Jon -- Xperia(TM) PLAY It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. And it wants your games. http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improving the elevator modeling
Forwarded to the JSBSim-devel list. Jon On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 11:05 AM, cas...@mminternet.com wrote: Hi, ... The only parts lacking in the JSBSim as best as I can determine are some numbers to define the elevator aero coefficents, hinge moments as a function of tail alpha and deflection, and changes in the aspect ratio of the wing as a function of flap deflections that will be used to calculate the downwash for a specific wing configuration and flight condition Any comments?? John John, You might try posting this on the JSBSim developer list. I know that Agostino De Marco has done some modeling of hinge moments using JSBSim. I seem to recall that he wrote an AIAA paper that included hinge moment modeling, etc. -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Calculating free stick position and forces
Perhaps downwash and hinge force calculations should be the subject of a section in the xml aerodynamics file so that they can be tailored on a per-aircraft basis. Alan the xml files should be used to load the respective aircraft data for aero coefficients, tail geometry, and metrics. For speed and efficiency the actual calculations should reside in the JSBSim code John Actually, Alan is correct, as Ron also mentioned in the JSBSim-devel list, where this topic is cross-posted. I think it is quite possible that we can already do this using function definitions in the aerodynamics section of an aircraft spec. file. There is no perceptible performance hit to using function definitions. The functions are implemented in C++, are fairly efficient, and calculations are cached per-frame. I'd prefer not to see possibly type-specific hard-coded calculations going into the codebase - I think we can implement this in the current codebase using existing capabilities. Jon -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improving the elevator modeling
Hi, ... The only parts lacking in the JSBSim as best as I can determine are some numbers to define the elevator aero coefficents, hinge moments as a function of tail alpha and deflection, and changes in the aspect ratio of the wing as a function of flap deflections that will be used to calculate the downwash for a specific wing configuration and flight condition Any comments?? John John, You might try posting this on the JSBSim developer list. I know that Agostino De Marco has done some modeling of hinge moments using JSBSim. I seem to recall that he wrote an AIAA paper that included hinge moment modeling, etc. Downwash can probably be calculated as a function (perhaps as a function of lift force generated), and a local alpha for the elevator can be calculated that accounts for the downwash angle. Jon -- Enable your software for Intel(R) Active Management Technology to meet the growing manageability and security demands of your customers. Businesses are taking advantage of Intel(R) vPro (TM) technology - will your software be a part of the solution? Download the Intel(R) Manageability Checker today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmar ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Quiet
It's been quiet here. -- Colocation vs. Managed Hosting A question and answer guide to determining the best fit for your organization - today and in the future. http://p.sf.net/sfu/internap-sfd2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Logos and licensing
I suspect that msfs and xplane have licensing agreements with trademark holders. It would of course be good to know this! Jon Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on ATT Vivian Meazza vivian.mea...@lineone.net wrote: Chris On Thu, 2011-03-03 at 09:43 +, Vivian Meazza wrote: I'm going to set you all a simple multiple choice test - pay attention because I'm only going to say this once: Okay, now it's my turn. Please answer the following: 1. Is there a difference between a trademark and a copyright? A. Yes B. No C. It doesn't matter because we should be able to ignore either of them and include well-known logos on aircraft liveries if we want. A. There is a very great difference, at least in the UK. In turns out that Trademark protection is really quite limited. For example, the Cessna trademark (word and logo) is registered only in Class 12. We would be able to use Cessna in Class 9. Just like Polo (a sweet) and Polo (a car). Copyright of the logo - different question. Well known or not doesn't change the equation. Interestingly, Red Bull was once refused an injunction in the US against a fizzy drinks company marketing a drink called Bullshit. http://www.lawdit.co.uk/reading_room/room/view_article.asp?name=../articles/ Red Bull Trade Mark is Bullshit.htm Which made me smile (yes, I'm easily amused) and perhaps sums up Red Bull's corporate behavior pretty well IMO. 2. Another flight simulator (X-Plane, MSFS, whatever) includes trademarks in their liveries. Therefore... A. It must be okay to do this because *they* do it. B. Even if it's not okay, we can do it because *they* do it. C. It really doesn't matter what they do. What matters is what *we* do. A and B. Precedent is important. If Company A does not pursue Company B for unlicenced use of their trademark or copyright then it is reasonable to assume: a. Company A doesn't care about such unlicenced use, or indeed might see it as free advertising Or b. Company B is not, in fact, infringing that trademark (see Cessna above) If we are in exactly the same business or class as Company B and we are sure that the use is in fact unlicensed, it is also reasonable to assume that we will get the same treatment. 3. Scenario: It's against the law to drive 60 mph (100 kph) in a 30 mph (50 kph) zone. I drive 60 mph in a 30 mph zone but I always: (a) make sure there are no police around, and (b) don't ask the police if I can do this. Which of the following statements is true? A. It's only wrong to drive 60 mph in a 30 mph zone if you hit something or run over somebody. B. Because I didn't ask permission (and so I couldn't be told I couldn't do it) and because no police are around, it is now okay to drive 60 mph in a 30 mph zone. C. No matter what, it's wrong to drive 60 mph in a 30 mph zone. D. It is however tacitly accepted that it is OK to drive at an _indicted_ 79 mph on UK motorways (the unwritten 10% + 2 rule). Same as the answer above. 3. Scenario: The FlightGear Project decides they will only distribute aircraft with liveries containing trademark icons if the trademark owner grants permission. This means there are very few liveries containing trademarks in the distribution package. However, anyone wanting to have liveries with trademarks can easily obtain them by Googling flightgear liveries and then going to a multitude of independent sites that have livery repositories. Which of the following statements is true? A. That will spell the end of the FlightGear Project B. That would work So we would have to ask our users to add dodgy liveries to our AI aircraft? If they are classed as FlightGear Liveries, and we take no steps to object to other websites use of our name/logo, could we not also be guilty of a infringement of the law by association? I don't know, I haven't researched it, but shoveling a problem around is not solving it. It would certainly lead to fragmentation of the project, but I think that's already happening to a certain extent. Not really a good idea. Personally, I don't care if I never see another airliner in FG, but there are others who do. Hmm, all thought provoking, and stimulated more research, Thanks, Chris Vivian -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Logos and licensing
I'm going to set you all a simple multiple choice test - pay attention because I'm only going to say this once: 7. Do I have to ask permission of the motor manufacturer, the professional photographer, or you to make or to publish my work on the internet? A. No B. Yes 8. I got there first. Does the professional photographer have to ask my permission, or the motor manufacturer or you to publish his work? A. No B. Yes Right. Hands up anyone who answered anything but straight As. Oh dear - in Germany apparently I must seek permission from the motor manufacturer. I expect BMW are very busy handling all the requests. That's probably why they can't fix mine ... but that's another saga. When photographing *people*, if you plan to publish *and profit from* your photographs, then you may need a model release form. I've been involved several times in group events where photographers would not profit from the photographs they took, but got people to sign release forms anyhow out of courtesy, at least (see, for instance, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_release, which expresses the same sentiments I have seen at professional photographer periodical web sites). This is interesting, but I don't know if it offers any assistance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark. Jon -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Logos and licensing
I think that a key with all this is that none of the models will be sold for profit. You could argue that even if the models are on a cd that is sold for profit since they are also available freely that the models are not the source of the profit. Jon Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on ATT Heiko Schulz aeitsch...@yahoo.de wrote: Hi, * Heiko Schulz aeitsch...@yahoo.de: I will write some Emails to some copyright-holders this weekend like Lufthansa, ADAC,... I'm curious to see how they react, but I also fear a bit the answers and consequences. Severe tactical error a.k.a. shooting yourself in the foot. What if they (or some of them) are well aware of our use, but they just decided not to care, pretending not to know officially, because it's a small, harmless, not-for-profit sim. But once you officially asked, they can no longer pretend. And the answer will be *no* in most cases. Then the silent gentlemen agreement is voided. By us! And now they *have* to take measures to protect their brand. They might think: You idiots! Why did you have to ask?! It's like asking a policeman if you may cross the street at red traffic light. He might have ignored you doing it. But he sure can't say go ahead, nor can he then tolerate you ignoring his order. m. I thought about that, but hoped no one will raise this up The question is still: how to proceed? One of my liveries uses like Jack a copyrighted logo (taken from an own phto) and may not be used without permission. -- http://www.adac.de/impressum/default.aspx?ComponentId=6019SourcePageId=6729#ank6019-5 On the other side: there are many hundreds liveries with this Logo out there available. Feeling a bit helpless -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Logos and licensing
Staying beneath the radar might be effective but do you feel good about it? Is it the ethical thing to do? Unethical? Hoping that ignorance is bliss? Trying to ignore a perceived problem and wishing it would go away because it is too hard to do things the right way? OTOH even if a company feels that a violation is taking place they would surely make a friendly request first. Jon Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on ATT Gary Neely grne...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with Melchior. In the most situations they will be obliged to say no. It's the easiest, safest, most proven course for them. It seems rare that someone in our community is approached by a copyright-holder and told to remove some objectionable element. Even if it does happen, it's likely that someone will get a letter from a law firm saying Take-XYZ-down-or-else. You shrug, comply, and move on. There's a saying in English about bearding the lion in his den. It's probably better to stay beneath the lion's radar. -Gary -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Logos and licensing
From: Curtis Olson [mailto:curtol...@gmail.com] Jon: I respect your position, but I humbly ask then that you please post or send me your letters for usage permission from Boeing, Airbus, Douglas, Lockheed, Aérospatiale, BAC, deHavilland, McDonnell, Cessna, Fokker, (New) Piper, etc. etc. all of which (and more) you have modeled in JSBSim and distribute on the official JSBSim web site. Best regards, Curt. Curt, As you may recall, a few years ago myself and at least one other JSBSim developer did have an event that caused us to look over our operating procedures - and I won't go into the details, but suffice it to say that it was not a pleasant experience, although it turned out OK and in my case I was apologized to for the inconvenience. I never did figure out the exact reason why I was contacted and questioned. As you may also recall I did post the correspondence I received from Boeing IP personnel here in this thread a couple of weeks ago. It was that response that lead us to reevaluate our process and to withdraw some aircraft models from distribution for a while. We then added some disclaimers and statements in most of them and made sure that our data was traceable to public sources. We have it much easier than FlightGear does, since the reference to an aircraft type using the company name (such as Boeing 737) is far different than the use of a trademark or logo - particularly for a logo. I can't tell you guys what to do, but if it was me I would take maybe one of two approaches: 1) Make a README file that contains an appropriate disclaimer and distribute that with each model. I don't know what that disclaimer would state. 2) Continue as if nothing had changed, but contact the various trademark/logo owners and very carefully inform them of the project and ask them for permission. In any case, I strongly suspect that the worst that can happen is that if a company takes issue with the unauthorized use of its IP it will simply ask that further use be discontinued and that will be the end of it. Jon attachment: winmail.dat-- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Logos and licensing
From: Curtis Olson Hi Jon, I apologize for being persnickety here, but I am searching for clarity and consistency on this issue. Has the JSBSim project asked permission from all the aircraft manufacturers that you create and distribute models for? If not, have you only dealt with Boeing in terms of asking for and receiving permission? If you've only received permission from one company, then why? I assume it's because they contacted you and forced this issue. In any case, why is it ok to proceed with explicit permission from Boeing, and at the same time ok to proceed *without* explicit permission from every other aircraft manufacturer on the planet? If it's ok for JSBSim to proceed without permission from most companies, then why suggest that FlightGear should get permission before we model aircraft from various manufacturers with logos representing various owners of specific aircraft? ... Curt, Actually, I contacted Boeing myself - and only Boeing. It was for no other reason than it's the only one (with the exception of the Fokker aircraft) that mention a company name. [I have no reason to believe that they were in any way responsible for the complaint that lead to the incident years ago.] The other aircraft names in the JSBSim CVS repository do not feature the company name or any other trademark, logo, or other proprietary material. The type names such as 172, 747, F4N, etc. are not proprietary or trademarked designations or anything, as far as I can tell. Nevertheless, we went beyond what was probably necessary and included a disclaimer in many (perhaps all?) of the aircraft in the JSBSim repository, taking the input from Boeing and proceeding with an excess of caution. To be safest we probably ought to rename the Fokker aircraft models as F100 and F50. Jon attachment: winmail.dat-- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Logos and licensing
From: Stuart Buchanan [mailto:*.*.*] I agree with Jon on this - ideally we should be pro-active about asking for permission, even if we don't like the answer. ... Jon - could you post the disclaimer text you eventually used? -Stuart With JSBSim, our situation is a little different, considering that we deal with data and performance characteristics and not tangible, visual, IP (logos, etc.). So, this is the disclaimer we ended up using: This model was created using publicly available data, publicly available technical reports, textbooks, and guesses. It contains no proprietary or restricted data. It has been validated only to the extent that it seems to fly right, and possibly to comply to published, publicly known, performance data (maximum speed, endurance, etc.). Thus, this model is meant for educational and entertainment purposes only. This simulation model is not endorsed by the manufacturer. This model is not to be sold. I think that last sentence maybe should have for profit tacked on the end, and even that might still cause some heartburn within the OSS community. It might also have a bearing on the Fli*ght Pr* S*m discussion. ;-) I found Boeing's response to our query to be friendly and reasonable. Jon attachment: winmail.dat-- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Incorrect conversion used for lbs to gallon of fuel
Hi Bertrand, I am currently working on a more generic solution to the issue based on your patch. Currently we have at least three different places within FlightGear calculating tank contents and converting them between different units. The idea is to have a TankProperties class encapsulating all property- conversions and to have the fdm_shell create instances of the class. With that, you can write to any of it's properties (level, capacity, density) using any unit and have all other properties correct. There is no need to have this in every FDM and also in Nasal. I'm curently testing various aircraft on Windows and Linux and I hope to get this commited later today. Greetings, Torsten I've been so busy I missed this one earlier. Maybe I am missing something here. I certainly agree that doing things in several places (redundantly) is a bad idea. But I wonder if the creation of a TankProperties class is needed, or rather if there is some deficiency in the way tanks are handled in the FDMs at this time? In JSBSim (and I assume in YASim) the JSBSim API provides sufficient insight into the tank state. Certain properties are also available. I know that the tank-related properties are probably not referred to the same way on the FlightGear side and on the JSBSim (and other FDM) side. Is that what your TankProperties class is supposed to coordinate? Would it be better to use the API rather than properties, if that is the case? This also leads to an interesting situation which has probably been discussed before, but which I don't recall. The existing tanks in any vehicle model may be filled as specified by the modeler (hopefully the fuel tanks are filled up). That is very important for when running JSBSim in a standalone mode. Of course FlightGear can and should allow filling of the tanks to any degree desired, so the TankContents value in the JSBSim aircraft config file is irrelevant for FlightGear - although it might allow for a default fill level if desired. But the location, capacity, and other values should be respected, as I assume they are. Jon -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway
I think ya'll just need to hang this one up and let it alone. g. I know. What a love-fest, eh? ;-) jb -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSIM Aircraft Crash at Reset
Bertrand, Is this patch supposed to be applied to JSBSim as it currently exists in JSBSim CVS, or applied against the patch that Thorsten mentions? Jon -Original Message- From: Bertrand Coconnier [mailto:bcoco...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 6:09 AM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSIM Aircraft Crash at Reset 2011/2/5 ThorstenB bre...@gmail.com: On 05.02.2011 16:21, ThorstenB wrote: I'm currently testing a different patch for the same issue: instead of untieing all properties below the /fdm/jsbsim (only), I added a list to JSBSim's FGPropertyManagager, so it keeps track of all the properties it has actually bound. It can then use this list to untie all its properties - no matter where these are located in the property tree. New patch pushed to flightgear/next: http://www.gitorious.org/fg/flightgear/commit/ad8d46ba648263630b8777c5 3f852b75cad7ecdd This will be overwritten by the next JSBSim update, however it's a short-term fix and candidate for our pending 2.2 release. So, please test if you still see reset issues with JSBSim aircraft. If we find it's an improvement (maybe/hopefully the final fix for this issue), then we'll be pushing this to the 2.2 branch also. But remember, none of the reset fixes is part of the 2.2 branch just yet. The long term fix needs to be part of the JSBSim repository of course. Jon, Erik: please check if you want to use this patch or have some other solution to the problem. Hi Thorsten, Good catch ! I had a quick look at your patch and have a couple of comments on it : * Some templates of the Tie() method are located in FGPropertyManager.h and have been overlooked in your patch (this is quite important because it leaves a hole in the bottom of which some bugs may have stayed hidden) * I would only add the successfully tied properties to the tied_properties list. In your patch the name of the properties are unconditionally added to the list. I don't think that does any harm but the code now looks cleaner to me. * The method FGFDMExec::checkTied() is now redundant with FGPropertyManager::Unbind() so the former has been removed in favour of the latter (this one is rather internal JSBSim stuff, I have included it for the sake of completeness). * I would rather make tied_properties a list of SGPropertyNode* rather than a list of strings (same as above : internal JSBSim stuff) * Traditionally, method names in JSBSim have the first letter of their name capitalized (very very minor this one !) Attached patch includes all the above suggestions. The patch has been made against the last revision of the 'next' branch of git. Wow ! This issue is really hard to fix. However it exemplifies the Open Source model superiority in allowing such a team work to fix quite a reluctant and annoying bug. Cheers, Bertrand. -- The modern datacenter depends on network connectivity to access resources and provide services. The best practices for maximizing a physical server's connectivity to a physical network are well understood - see how these rules translate into the virtual world? http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnlfb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSIM Aircraft Crash at Reset
2011/2/6 Jon S. Berndt jonsber...@comcast.net: Bertrand, Is this patch supposed to be applied to JSBSim as it currently exists in JSBSim CVS, or applied against the patch that Thorsten mentions? BTW, this patch won't apply automatically due to path issues. I am required to enter specific path names to the file. Any ideas how to fix that? Jon -- The modern datacenter depends on network connectivity to access resources and provide services. The best practices for maximizing a physical server's connectivity to a physical network are well understood - see how these rules translate into the virtual world? http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnlfb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSIM Aircraft Crash at Reset
On Sun, 2011-02-06 at 13:18 +0100, Bertrand Coconnier wrote: Hi Jon, You may already know that but the current behaviour of Flight Gear reset process is coded at a higher level than JSBSim glue code (JSBSim.cxx). The reset process is to unbind - delete - create a new instance of the FDM no matter which FDM is used in Flight Gear (check FDMShell:reinit() in src/FDM/fdm_shell.cxx). So in order to make Flight Gear use the improvements you are mentioning, this will need to be a joint effort between Flight Gear, JSBSim and possibly the developers of the other FDMs. However this should not prevent this improvement to be made on JSBSim side :-) Actually I think this is good behavior regardless what Jon comes up with and I vote to include the patch from Bertrand to JSBSim anyhow. Erik I'm incorporating it on my side right now. (I vote with you, Erik! ;-) We need to address two things here - and maybe they need to be addressed the same way when integrated within FlightGear (I don't know): 1) Reinitialize at some position and state, with the same aircraft. - This may not require anything more than setting initial conditions and reinitializing the aircraft at that position and state without deleting the entire JSBSim instance. This is preferable for JSBSim standalone, and I would think it would be preferable anywhere, but in another sense I can see that nuking the instance and starting from scratch might be appealing. This is particularly true if our startup process is very fast. 2) Changing aircraft and position/state. - This is a more complex issue and I do think it requires nuking the JSBSim instance and creating a new one. Jon -- The modern datacenter depends on network connectivity to access resources and provide services. The best practices for maximizing a physical server's connectivity to a physical network are well understood - see how these rules translate into the virtual world? http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnlfb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSIM Aircraft Crash at Reset
Go to JSBSim/src and add '-p 4' to the patch command line. (this skips 4 levels of directory entries) Erik That works. Sort of. But it's trying to patch JSBSim.cxx which we no longer have in JSBSim standalone. Jon -- The modern datacenter depends on network connectivity to access resources and provide services. The best practices for maximizing a physical server's connectivity to a physical network are well understood - see how these rules translate into the virtual world? http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnlfb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSIM Aircraft Crash at Reset
PS: I've made several reset tests, all look good now. Also, no side-effects with the previous patches were reported, so I'm also pushing the patches to FG/2.2 now (trying to remember the entire patch sequence... :) ). cheers, Thorsten We'll definitely want to be sure that we don't lose anything between JSBSim and FlightGear. Bertrand has suggested that for now JSBSim uses Ron Jensen's GIT repository at http://gitorious.org/jsbsim, and that sounds like a good idea to me. SourceForge CVS is still down, as AFAICT. Jon -- The modern datacenter depends on network connectivity to access resources and provide services. The best practices for maximizing a physical server's connectivity to a physical network are well understood - see how these rules translate into the virtual world? http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnlfb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSIM Aircraft Crash at Reset
How can I update my FlightGear development codebase (which was created a few months ago) from git so I can try to see this problem? Jon -Original Message- From: Erik Hofman [mailto:e...@ehofman.com] Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:42 AM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSIM Aircraft Crash at Reset On Sat, 2011-02-05 at 13:31 +0100, henri orange wrote: Hi, Erik Sorry for the question is there somewhere a specific fg2.2 source ? I am using the git version with git pull, though i don't understand the meaning of it, it does work and give me an update. I thought it was the fg devel version. with fgfs --version i get FlightGear version: 2.2.0 I get that too, with the developers version in git.. It looks like you are using the developers version indeed which is a pity since I had hoped this was fixed now. Erik --- --- The modern datacenter depends on network connectivity to access resources and provide services. The best practices for maximizing a physical server's connectivity to a physical network are well understood - see how these rules translate into the virtual world? http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnlfb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- The modern datacenter depends on network connectivity to access resources and provide services. The best practices for maximizing a physical server's connectivity to a physical network are well understood - see how these rules translate into the virtual world? http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnlfb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSIM Aircraft Crash at Reset
From: ThorstenB [mailto:bre...@gmail.com] Hi, probably spotted the cause for the reported reset crash: it's the same as already reported before - targeted by this earlier patch: http://www.gitorious.org/fg/flightgear/commit/287cc74965e11ff3888117a9d 9b88ed2bdbb9252 This patch unties all JSBSim properties prior to reset. However, it's not quite sufficient and misses some JSBSim properties. Problem is that JSBSim can also tie properties outside the /fdm/jsbsim branch - using property paths which can be configured in aircraft-specific configuration files. ... I'm currently testing a different patch for the same issue: instead of untieing all properties below the /fdm/jsbsim (only), I added a list to JSBSim's FGPropertyManagager, so it keeps track of all the properties it has actually bound. It can then use this list to untie all its properties - no mattere where these are located in the property tree. This patch seems to fix the issue for me. I'll do a few more tests and (hopefully :) ) propose this a new patch... cheers, Thorsten I thought we already had something like this in JSBSim - I thought I had added such a feature already, myself, actually, but maybe I just dreamed it. ;-) I'll have to go back and look at the [JSBSim] code again. I'd like to figure out how to make resetting work better from the API - more naturally and without having to reload the aircraft model. This would be useful for both the JSBSim standalone executable and for any larger simulation framework that incorporates JSBSim. Jon www.JSBSim.org www.facebook.com/jsbsim -- The modern datacenter depends on network connectivity to access resources and provide services. The best practices for maximizing a physical server's connectivity to a physical network are well understood - see how these rules translate into the virtual world? http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnlfb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] altimeter problem
Need new graphics cards amd will upgrade to a quad-core machine. In the meantime going to offload some of the number crunching for one of the projectors to a slave to shoot the videos for the UCD presentation. UCD ?? jb -- Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim merge
-Original Message- From: Erik Hofman [mailto:e...@ehofman.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 5:55 AM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim merge On Mon, 2011-01-24 at 15:40 +, James Turner wrote: Okay - I'm going to re-apply my patches locally, and also apply Andreas Gaeb's NaN fixes (and to the release branch too), but of course they all need to be merged to JSBSim proper. After a bit of discussion it was decided that the FlightGear/JSBSim glue code in JSBSim.[ch]xx located in FlightGear/src/FDM/JSBSim now is maintained by FlightGear developers instead of by JSBSim developers and therefore these files will not be overwritten in future updates. Instead they are now copied over to JSBSim instead to act as example code. Erik I have received and applied patches from several places recently. Make sure that patches are not accidentally reversed. It is very important that patches - and *very*especially* **any** patches to FGPropagate - go through the proper channels, tested thoroughly using several specified scripts on the JSBSim side. All patches must be posted and/or explained on the JSBSim developer list first prior to being committed. I'm not writing this to be heavy-handed, but to avoid problems going forward, based on past experiences. Sometimes I will see problem reports in various places and be working locally on the best approach for a fix. So, merging *from* the flightgear tree to JSBSim might cause problems when I try to apply my (or another JSBSim developer's) fixes. So, let's please funnel ALL problem reports about JSBSim issues to the JSBSim developer list OR via the bug reporting tool: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=119399group_id=19399func=browse Thanks - and sorry if this comes across as rude or controlling. It's not meant to. :-) Jon -- Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tried to initialize a non-existent engine!
It comes up when at reset , for instance c172p.and we get a crash with that message: Tried to initialize a non-existent engine! It was solved, but my was over-written when Erik updated JSBSim (because I didn't remember to submit it to JSBSim). But last night I re-appllied the fix to Git, so it should work again - I spent some time with the C172 resetting and repositioning and everything worked fine. (I didn't try any other aircraft, due to lack of time) James What patch? Jon -- Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] NaNs when resetting JSBSim
No, the JSBSim object is created on the heap memory - not on the stack. Only local variables (including local static objects) are on the stack. Heap isn't initialized, neither stack. So member variables have random values - unless explicitly set. Most compilers provide warnings for uninitialized local variables (on the stack), but unfortunately I don't know any compiler (yet) producing warning for uninitialized member variables. [First: Guys, can you trim quotes, please? And the use of HTML is a pain in email.] From a JSBSim perspective, we are very careful about using variables before they are set/initialized. We have gotten reports from multiple user communities over years, and this is something that has been addressed continuously. I'd like to find a way to reinitialize an instance of JSBSim in FlightGear without having to destruct it and reinstantiate it. A couple of years ago I changed the construction process and separated out a reset/reinitialization feature to permit a sim to be reset, bypassing the loading of aircraft models. That saved a lot of time. I think that process should be looked at for resetting JSBSim in FlightGear, too. It's possible that some newer feature is causing a problem due to an uninitialized variable that has been so far overlooked, but I expect the problem lies in a different area. I think it points out that we should have more error checking, though, so the problem is more gracefully handled and the user informed. Jon -- Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Hang on reset
I seem to vaguely recall some issue with resetting (with JSBSim). I had thought that the most recent JSBSim code fixed that, though. Jon From: henri orange [mailto:hohora...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2011 7:32 AM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Hang on reset 2010/12/31 AJ MacLeod aj-li...@adeptopensource.co.uk Am I alone in seeing flightgear hanging every time after doing a reset? My SG/FG/Data are all current, though I haven't built OSG in a while... AJ -- - No, you are not alone. I noticed some isues with every JSBSIM models, recent fg git version and osg devel-version 2.9.9 You may refer to these link http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailaid=3139100group_id=19399atid =119399 aid=3139100group_id=19399atid=119399 http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=24500694.1391483129 2331331212.JavaMail.root%40spooler4-g27.priv.proxad.net http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=24500694.139148312 92331331212.JavaMail.root%40spooler4-g27.priv.proxad.netforum_name=flightge ar-devel forum_name=flightgear-devel -- Best regards, Henri, aka Alva Official grtux hangar maintainer -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] p51d-jsbsim merge request
From: Hal V. Engel [mailto:hven...@gmail.com] snip Property /engines/engine[0]/mp-inhg is already defined. Property /engines/engine/oil-temperature-degf is already defined. Property /controls/fuel/tank-selector is already defined. Property /controls/engines/engine/throttle is already defined. Property ap/ap_map_hold is already defined. Property ap/throttle-cmd-norm is already defined. The above happen when I forward declare these in the JSBSIm xml files to avoid messages like the next message. FGPropertyManager::GetNode() No node found for ap/map-error In condition: ap/map-error LT 0.0. Unknown property ap/map-error referenced. Creating property. Check usage. Failed to tie property ap/throttle-cmd-out to object methods Failed to tie property ap/cooling-cmd-out to object methods I don't know why the Failed to tie.. messages are happening. The two above are from two jsbsim autopilots that are part of the engine control systems. One is for the auto manifold pressure system and the second is for the automatic coolant temperature controls. Both systems work in spite of these messages. I would like to eliminate these messages. Can someone give me a clue what to look for? Hal, Some time ago we (I) added some checks to prevent problems with config files due to spelling errors. Sometimes things can get misspelled and there is no warning to the user, nor any obvious ill effects. The way that the property system is supposed to work (to my recollection) is that it should not matter in which order properties are declared, and when a property is encountered that has not been referenced before, the property is simply created. This is both useful and dangerous, as we have seen. So, what we did to try and prevent problems is to notify the user when a property is being defined that has already been defined, or when a property is referenced that has not been created. Unfortunately, it can be problematic when a property is created on the FlightGear side, but used in the JSBSim side, if one wants to use the aircraft model in both FlightGear and in standalone JSBSim - or in another simulation architecture (which would not have nasal support, FWIW). The system we have set up for handling presumed property creation problems probably is not perfect, and it can be excessively wordy. We might find a way to suppress the messages, but I'd want to take another look at them and make sure I understand why the messages are being shown. Some of them don't look harmless. Jon -- Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some Aircraft ( jsbsim fdm ?) cannot reset
I wonder when this started happening? When was the previous time that a sync with JSBSim occurred? -Original Message- From: James Turner [mailto:zakal...@mac.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 6:13 AM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some Aircraft ( jsbsim fdm ?) cannot reset On 14 Dec 2010, at 11:51, henri orange wrote: II do not notice any similar error with, others fdm (yasim, uiuc ) though i did not tried all of these ~400 models Is it just me ? is it specific to some jsbsim Aircraft ? is it specific to jsbsim ? http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=204 It seems to affect all JSBSim aircraft. We haven't yet pinpointed the changes (in JSBSim or FG) that introduced this regression. James --- --- Lotusphere 2011 Register now for Lotusphere 2011 and learn how to connect the dots, take your collaborative environment to the next level, and enter the era of Social Business. http://p.sf.net/sfu/lotusphere-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Lotusphere 2011 Register now for Lotusphere 2011 and learn how to connect the dots, take your collaborative environment to the next level, and enter the era of Social Business. http://p.sf.net/sfu/lotusphere-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] flight data playback
It would be really, really cool if you could do this using the JSBSim internal features so it could run in stand-alone, too. :) Ron This is true, because JSBSim is well-suited to various GNC systems modeling. This has already been done to some degree, but not a lot of time has been spent on it, yet. I am becoming more and more concerned with the intermixing of required nasal scripts with JSBSim aircraft simply because it makes it harder to run the models in a standalone batch mode (for testing) and to carry them over to another simulator (such as OpenEaagles or Outerra). Jon -- Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL, new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages, OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Squaring Control Inputs
If it was important that a JSBSim aircraft model gets a non-squared joystick input - that is, a linear joystick position from -1. To +1 (regardless of what is in the joystick file), how would we command (at runtime) the squaring to be false? The thinking is that there should be a class method in FGJSBSim for turning off squaring. Jon -- Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL, new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages, OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Aircraft model/cockpit rating
Running through the same exercise for the p51d-jsbsim: FDM: 5 Systems: 4 (still needs some electrical systems stuff) Model: 3 (missing cooling door animation, liveries and Ambient Occlusion effect) Cockpit: 3 (what is there is a 4 but it is missing a few things IE. not complete) Total is 15 average is 3.75. For a developer this is very quick to do as it took me all of perhaps 2 minutes. In addition this has very few things that are at all subjective. I like it. ... Hal I also think that the criteria laid out is good. One thing, though (and I apologize if this has already been discussed), but it might be fair to point out examples of a five somewhere for each category. The point being that can we really expect to find an aircraft model that is a solid 5? What is the gold standard? We know how much effort Hal has expended on the P51 flight model, and I will certainly agree that it rates a 5. Which aircraft models rate a 5 in which categories? Jon -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSImulator
Woohoo!!! I clicked on one of those ProFlightSimulator ads, and it took me to a page saying: ACCOUNT SUSPENDED. See for yourself here! http://www.proflightsimulator.com/cgi- sys/suspendedpage.cgi?hop=txflyer20 Cheers! Drinks all around! Check Six, Jack It's back. I was viewing a page on Facebook (with a picture of an older jet fighter on the Hornet that someone had taken ... you may have seen it :-) and the simulator ad was right there. It links to this page: http://www.pennystock-pro.info/ProFligthSimulator.html It's funny, because flight simulator isn't even spelled right in the link. Jon -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Bouncing JSBSim aircraft
There was an update to the gear code yesterday. I suppose it's possible that the new update has side effects. We'll look into it. Does anyone know when the last good code is dated? Jon Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on ATT Gijs de Rooy gijsr...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi all, after updating fgdata from Gitorious this evening and installing the win32 nightly binary from Hudson (28-nov-2010 7:00:55), JSBSim aircraft suddenly bounce, when at the ground. Some aircraft bounce more than others (747-400 and C172P for example crash due to the extreme forces), while the followme car only bounces up and down a little. I was able to drive around normally (apart from the bouncing) with the followme. So it looks like it depends on the gear compression/spring settings of the aircraft being operated. The YASim aircraft I tried did not show this behaviour. I suspect the problem arised after this commit by Erik: http://www.gitorious.org/fg/flightgear/commit/ad51a9bde2995605984161af1b4273b28ce4fddc Any clue on what's wrong? Can anyone confirm this behaviour? Cheers, Gijs -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] p51d-jsbsim merge request.
-Original Message- From: Hal V. Engel [mailto:hven...@gmail.com] I just created a merge request to move updates to the JSBSim p51d into fgdata. Changes include: ... Hal Would love to see a video of a flight showing these updated features. I think it would be a really nice showcase for what FlightGear can do. JB -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] p51d-jsbsim merge request.
There is tons of stuff that remains to be done still. You sound like me: always seeing what is yet left to be done. From my point of view, your work on this model is at the top of the charts. There are also things that I have not attempted to implement yet because they are not supported by JSBSim. The most significant of these for this model is support for liquid cooled piston engines. The doors on the dog house for engine and oil cooling control exist and have animation hooks but there is currently no way to setup the cooling system since the JSBSIm piston engine model assumes air cooling and almost none of the cooling related stuff is exposed in the property tree. Even if all of these were exposed I am not sure if it would be possible to fake the behavior of a liquid cooled engine. Remember that we have implemented pre and post functions in engine modeling. That is, any arbitrary function can be defined and set to execute either before or after the main engine model code. That won't help if the appropriate properties are not exposed, though, of course. Do you have a list of which properties you still need from the engine model? Jon -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Further properties heads-up - property objects.
It has another interesting feature, suggested by ThorstenB - if you try to read an invalid path, it doesn't silently succeed - it throws an exception! This is to avoid lurking typos in property paths, which has been an issue. (I will be adding a 'weak' variant, that takes a default value, for the cases where people want to read a property that might not exist) ... I'm not going to start converting tied properties to use propertyObjects next week, or next month, but certainly next year. The hope is that by that time, this code is mature, efficient and so on - so please try it, use it and fix it! Regards, James This concerns me a bit. JSBSim grabs a copy of the relevant simgear code to support properties once every couple of years. When JSBSim is built within FlightGear, we of course just use what's there in the FlightGear tree. But, when JSBSim is incorporated into other products, they use what we have in our codebase. I'm concerned that at some point the property system will evolve to the point where serious conflicts arise, and backwards compatibility is broken. We (JSBSim) depend on the property system. I'm wondering if the property code should just be left well enough alone... Jon -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] How use FG without graphics
Yes. How do you want to send it? To what? See the JSBSim Reference Manual at www.jsbsim.org. Jon -Original Message- From: ing. Petr Ondra [mailto:petr.on...@erm.cz] Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 3:13 AM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: [Flightgear-devel] How use FG without graphics Hi, I need to use FG for calculate the flight and navigation, and as an image generator using a different system. Can I use the FG without loading and rendering any graphics? Is it possible to send over FG JSBSim information about the ground reaction? Thx Petr --- --- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fwd: in air starts and all preset control/trim settings broke
This would be a good change to test. Note that JSBSim is experience NaNs for me on reset/re-position, much of the time - I think I'm more prone to this than other people, for some reason. I see the same behaviour before and after the change, and Anders informs me it's a long-standing bug, but obviously if you're testing reset or reposition you're likely to encounter it. (If someone could get to the bottom of it, that would of course be even better) Regards, James I think this might be our child FDM counter bug. Jon -- Achieve Improved Network Security with IP and DNS Reputation. Defend against bad network traffic, including botnets, malware, phishing sites, and compromised hosts - saving your company time, money, and embarrassment. Learn More! http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpdev2dev-nov ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] 747-400 causing crash of fgfs
The URL given doesn't work. Jon See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA9Kato1Cx. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA9Kato1Cx.%20A A , but that is for upward loading. Winking smile emoticon Alan image001.gif-- Download new Adobe(R) Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 The new Adobe(R) Flex(R) 4 and Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 (formerly Flex(R) Builder(TM)) enable the development of rich applications that run across multiple browsers and platforms. Download your free trials today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Yasim, Quadcopter and MatLab
I once toyed with a quadracopter model based on JSBSim. The propeller model wasn't sufficient to the task, and I haven't tried again with the newer rotor model. There is a simple 3D model you could integrate with the YASim version perhaps. The repository is on gitorious: http://gitorious.org/ron-s-hanger/quadracopter Good luck. Ron I thought that the Paparazzi project had one. The BoozSimulator uses JSBSim. http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/BoozSimulator I haven't looked at this at all. Jon -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Yasim, Quadcopter and MatLab
I once toyed with a quadracopter model based on JSBSim. The propeller model wasn't sufficient to the task, and I haven't tried again with the newer rotor model. There is a simple 3D model you could integrate with the YASim version perhaps. The repository is on gitorious: http://gitorious.org/ron-s-hanger/quadracopter Good luck. Ron There also may be a way to do this with the new JSBSim rotor model. There will probably be an update to that code sometime soon. Jon -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Yasim, Quadcopter and MatLab
There also may be a way to do this with the new JSBSim rotor model. There will probably be an update to that code sometime soon. Jon From: Julien Peeters Great to know that. I thought JSBSim cannot model rotor based aircrarft. Some one knows when this will be released? Julien. Hi, Julien, Thomas Kreitler donated a rotor model. That was incorporated into JSBSim. There was also an Apache AH-1 model that worked within FlightGear with the new JSBSim rotor model, I believe. It's still in a beta stage. We'd like to see that model be generalized a bit more. Thomas believes he will be able to do this next month. So, there are still some things that need to be done with it. You can see the code in the JSBSim project as FGRotor.cpp. Jon attachment: winmail.dat-- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] C++ for Simulation
I should mention that the code in question is being rewritten, anyhow - and we have a good set of regression tests already. Jon -Original Message- From: Christian Mayer m...@christianmayer.de Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 12:48 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] C++ for Simulation -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Jon S. Berndt schrieb: If cost is an issue (isn't it always?), is it worth it to expend the resources to clean up code that may have been gathering flotsam and jetsam for years - particularly if you want to add some new features (base on new requirements), anyhow? I'm sure you know the never change a running system. This is IMHO responsible for the many old fashioned Fortan stuff that's still used today (although modern C++ would give better performance, etc. pp.) On the other hand at my day job the embedded software development team next to me does change languages (from hand coded C to ASCET to TargetLink to Simulink Embedded Coder) - but that's a slow process and only parts that need a redesign are affected. The parts that need only minor additions will stay in the same language unless there's a big need to -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] C++ for Simulation
Guys, I've got a question that's come up in my day job. I'd like to ask for your opinion. If you had to justify to your boss the rewrite of old C code in C++, could you do it? If cost is an issue (isn't it always?), is it worth it to expend the resources to clean up code that may have been gathering flotsam and jetsam for years - particularly if you want to add some new features (base on new requirements), anyhow? Jon -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] NASA 3D Models
Can these be converted to the format that FlightGear uses - particularly the crawler, the VAB, and the launch complex - as well as the launch vehicle models? Jon -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] NASA 3D Models
How did I manage to forget to post the link! :-\ JB From: Leonardo Fabian Grodek [mailto:fabian.gro...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 9:41 AM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] NASA 3D Models What a coincidence! I discovered those models just yesterday! I managed to open the Shuttle model in Blender, so I guess it would be possible to have them exported to Flightgear. BTW, here's the link to the site: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/3d_resources/models.html Regards, Fabián On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 9:34 AM, Jon S. Berndt jonsber...@comcast.net wrote: Can these be converted to the format that FlightGear uses - particularly the crawler, the VAB, and the launch complex - as well as the launch vehicle models? Jon -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] NASA 3D Models
Reading the NASA guidelines it seems to be compatible with GPL, so I put the VAB is in git in Models/Structures. Do you have any plans for it? Vivian Not for the VAB, so much, but to launch things from KSC the launch pad is needed. :-) And the Ares-1 vehicle would be nice, too. I'll try and look over my model to make sure there is no sensitive stuff in there and I may place the model in JSBSim CVS. Jon -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Building FlightGear under Vista
Hi Jon, If you don't do local changes updating is as easy as cd:ing into fgdata Done. (and the respective source repositories) How do I do this? and type 'git pull'. JB -- This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by: Show off your parallel programming skills. Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Building FlightGear under Vista
Like this? git pull git://gitorious.org/fg/fgdata.git ?? Which branch should I specify? Jon -Original Message- From: Jon S. Berndt [mailto:jonsber...@comcast.net] Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 11:26 AM To: 'FlightGear developers discussions' Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Building FlightGear under Vista Hi Jon, If you don't do local changes updating is as easy as cd:ing into fgdata Done. (and the respective source repositories) How do I do this? and type 'git pull'. JB --- --- This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by: Show off your parallel programming skills. Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by: Show off your parallel programming skills. Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
