Re: [Flightgear-devel] making sign of side-slip consistent between fdm (bug 901)

2013-07-29 Thread Jon S. Berndt
As in this image:

http://dodlithr.blogspot.com/2011/09/airplanes-stability-axis.html

Beta is positive when the wind hits the right side of the vehicle. This is
the only standard convention I have ever seen. I would recommend strongly
against artificially changing the sign of this parameter as output from
JSBSim.

Jon


 -Original Message-
 From: jean pellotier [mailto:jean.pellot...@wanadoo.fr]
 Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 6:27 AM
 To: FlightGear developers discussions
 Subject: [Flightgear-devel] making sign of side-slip consistent between
 fdm (bug 901)
 
 hi there,
 
 following this bug report:
 
 http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=901
 
 it appears that orientation/side-slip-deg and side-slip-rad don't have
 the same sign, depending if it's a yasim or a jsbsim plane.
 
 is there a commonly adopted convention for this property?
 
 if not, shouldn't we document somewhere the meaning of the different
 fdm properties present in fg tree, to avoid such problems in the future
 ?
 
 jano
 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Positioning Aircraft: accuracy

2013-06-24 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 It seems that we have a problem with the FG/JSBSim-interface or it's a
 rounding error during JSBSim-initialisation?!
 
 Summarizing my observations:
 - immediately after FG is started the property browser shows the
 correct values
 - this values hold true as long as the splash-screen appears
 - as soon as the splash-screen disappears and the plane pops up, the --
 lon/lat values jump to the wrong (rounded?) values
 - I also noticed that the correct values in the property browser are
 displayed with the same numbers of digits as typed. Simultaneous with
 the jump to the wrong values the number of digits increases to their
 count for double values
 
 Maybe this observations help to debug this issue.
 
 Best regards
 D-NXKT

How far off is the aircraft placement - how much is the jump? Is it many
hundreds of meters, or on the order a meter or two, or just centimeters?

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Turbulence should affect YaSim and JSBSim the same way

2013-06-16 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 ..my oversimplification: http://wiki.flightgear.org/YASim guesses how
 it flies from how it looks, while http://wiki.flightgear.org/JSBSim
 knows how it flies and tries to show us how that looks, e.g. stalls
 are assymetrical in YASim but (still?) symmetrical in JSBSim.
 
 ..if I guess FG progress correctly, we need to model downwash
 correctly, and if you want assymetrical stalls in JSBSim, you need 2
 halved JSBSim models per plane so each wing etc surface calculation is
 run independently.

I have not tried modeling a piston aircraft in quite some time. [Hal Engel's
P-51D does stall in either direction, does it not?] In any case, it should
be possible to model aerodynamic effects from the propeller in the XML model
file for any JSBSim aircraft (in the aerodynamics section) - effects that
would affect stalling, I suspect. It's not that JSBSim doesn't support
asymmetric stalls - JSBSim doesn't *not* support it. But, I'm not sure
anyone has crafted the aerodynamic/propulsion interactions that would effect
that. This isn't necessarily the fault of users, either. We (JSBSim
development community) would ideally make available more examples and
documentation.

JB



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim Synch with FlightGear

2013-06-11 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 Ok, I have pushed the current JSBSim/CVS version to FlightGear git.
 
 Please check for and report breakages. In case of aircraft breakages
 compare aircraft behaviour before and after the JSBSim update, if
 possible, to determine if the breakage is new or not.
 
 Cheers,
 
 Anders

That's great, thanks, Anders!

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim Synch with FlightGear

2013-06-09 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Can I request that the current version of JSBSim that is in our cvs as of
this moment be synched to FlightGear as early as convenient for the
synch-er? What's the proper procedure?

 

Jon

 

 

From: James Turner [mailto:zakal...@mac.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 1:22 AM
To: FlightGear developers discussions
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim Synch with FlightGear

 

 

On 14 Jan 2013, at 02:57, Jon S. Berndt jonsber...@comcast.net wrote:





When's the next released scheduled after the upcoming one?

 

  http://wiki.flightgear.org/Release_plan

 

So, 7 months from now.

 

While it would be good to have a new version of JSBSim, the whole purpose of
the freeze is to give a stable target for testing against - replacing one of
the FDMs with a significantly changed version definitely doesn't fit with
that!

 

I see Torsten has already updated that page with a new task to sync JSBSim
when entering feature freeze - as he said, the process improves!

 

Regards,

James

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Jsbsim-devel] about fdm properties

2013-05-11 Thread Jon S. Berndt
I agree that - at least - we should mention it in the documentation. We could  
hypothetically also accept data in any of the supported frames. Unfortunately, 
a lot of the data present in technical reports (NACA/NASA/AIAA) that I have 
seen is ambiguous as to frame for the rotational coefficients. When I get aero 
data it has usually already been reduced by the supplier. I do recall seeing 
aero data being supplied in stability frame, once. By default, we'll always 
assume rotational coefficients are expressed in body frame. We will think about 
adding support for other frames, but another thing I've done is to do the 
conversion inline as a function in the aerodynamics element.

Jon

- Reply message -
From: Alan Teeder ajtee...@v-twin.org.uk
To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Cc: issues Development jsbsim-de...@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Jsbsim-devel] [Flightgear-devel] about fdm properties
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 9:28 AM


The problem is that it is not documented that JSBSim only accepts body axis 
derivatives/aero coefficients for the rotary axes. The linear axis has the 
choice of body or wind/stability axes. I had assumed (wrongly) that as it 
was not specified, the rotary axes used the same axis frame as the linear 
axes. The result was an aircraft that was unaccountably  uncontrollable at 
high angles of attack.

By posting here I was trying to bring this matter to Flightgear developers 
attention. I cross posted the same message to JSBSim and Datcom mailing 
lists.

Jon Berndt has replied on the JSBSim list saying I don't recall seeing a 
set of rotational coefficients given in stability or wind frame. 
Unfortunately this is far from being the case.

In my working life running the research simulator at BAC Weybridge the only 
body axis data that I can recall being given was for the Concorde, back in 
1968/9. All other aircraft that I worked on used wind axis data.   Datcom is 
of particular relevance to JSBSim FDM authors and gives its output in 
stability axes.

Perhaps I should add this to the JSBSim bug list 
http://sourceforge.net/p/jsbsim/bugs/, but this still has open bugs from 
2003/4.

What is needed is at minimum is a documentation update. However, due to the 
number of Datcom based FDMs, it would be better to add full support for 
stability axes.

I have cross-posted this to the JSBSim list.

Alan




-Original Message- 
From: Anders Gidenstam
Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 3:41 PM
To: FlightGear developers discussions
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] about fdm properties

On Fri, 3 May 2013, Alan Teeder wrote:

 It exposes a serious problem in JSBSim which affects all Datcom users.

Isn't it rather a missing feature than a fault in JSBSim?

The JSBSim documentation and axis names are fairly clear on that the
moments are specified around the yaw, pitch and roll axes (but the origin
is at AeroRP rather than at the body frame origin/CoG so additional
corrections according to the parallel axis theorem are added based on the
distance from AeroRP to the actual CoG).

If the DATCOM - JSBSim input translation is faulty (I have no
professional grounding in aerodynamics and I cannot tell) the best place
to get it addressed might be at the mailing list/group for Bill
Galbraith's DATCOM+ program (I think it is the most commonly used way
to generate a JSBSim configuration from DATCOM):

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_datcom/

Cheers,

Anders
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim Synch with FlightGear

2013-01-13 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Torsten Dreye wrote:
  Hi JSBSim and FlightGear lists,
 
  should we sync the latest JSBSim code into FlightGear for the next
  release, scheduled for February this year?
 
 My vote is not to sync at this point.
 
 I'd consider a JSBSim sync to be similar to feature development,
 particularly given the possible impact on a large portion of the FG
 fleet.
 
 Perhaps if it was only a day or so after the feature freeze we might be
 flexible, but 4 days before the release branch is cut is too late IMO.
 
 -Stuart

I had hoped that we could do this a couple of months ago, but not synching 
JSBSim with the latest FlightGear would be very, very unfortunate. I'm not
sure when the last sync occurred (does anyone know?), but there have been
a lot of new features and bug fixes. Development has been very active.
FlightGear will be very much behind the curve relative to the current JSBSim
state if we don't synch. I've been driving FlightGear as an external visuals
application from JSBSim lately, but I'd prefer to run sims fully integrated.
I've got another reason for it to be integrated, but I need to discuss that
with Curt offline, first.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim Synch with FlightGear

2013-01-13 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 Yes, i had hoped, too. However, as you mentioned, many new features
 have been developed and that violates our feature freeze rule,
 unfortunately.
 That rule has been introduced for exactly this situation: not to raise
 some last minute issues (to avoid bugs here).
 
 Sorry - but as we improve our plan with every release, this most likely
 will not happen again ;-)
 
 Torsten

When was the last time that JSBSim was synched with FlightGear? 

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim Synch with FlightGear

2013-01-13 Thread Jon S. Berndt
   Sorry - but as we improve our plan with every release, this most
   likely will not happen again ;-)
  
   Torsten
 
  When was the last time that JSBSim was synched with FlightGear?
 
  Jon
 
 We synced about six months ago just before the last release of FGFS.

Outerra will be more up to date than FlightGear with respect to JSBSim.

:-(

When's the next released scheduled after the upcoming one?

JB



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] (JSBsim) body accelerations

2012-12-19 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 hi, my two cents, as someone interested in better formation flight.
 
 First, about using FGAccelerations::GetUVWdot as acceleration, i'm not
 sure you will have what you want. i'm trying to do (slowly) something
 about the lag ( http://wiki.flightgear.org/Mp-patch ), and i tried to
 use UVWdot, but seems to me  it give the dérivative of the speed in the
 aircraft reference, not the acceleration in ECEF, expressed in body
 coordinate.
 if the speed vector is stable/aircraft, UVWdot will be 0, but the the
 body acceleration can be huge in inertial referential. (that's how i
 understand the effect i see, and the UVWdot props variation in constant
 g turns, i didn't went to understand the jsbsim code ;)
 
 
 second, could it be possible to have a look at other fdm properties
 wich are inconsistent between yasim and jsbsim ?
 i think of velocity_wind_body  (maybe a velocity_body is needed) (bug
 202) and bug 901 (orientation/side-slip-deg)
 
 chears
 
 jano

We probably need to provide some better documentation on this.

Jon
JSBSim Development Coordinator



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded

2012-11-11 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 When the HUD no longer works, make sure you haven't deleted anything in
 FGDATA - like the fonts. You don't need to define the path to the base
 scenery (within fgdata). If you downloaded additional scenery, in one
 or multiple separate directories, you can separate the paths with :
 (works also on Windows).
 
 fgfs --fg-root=FGDATA_PATH --fg-scenery=CUSTOM_PATH1:CUSTOM_PATH2:...
 
 cheers,
 Thorsten

Still no HUD symbology with the custom scenery. If I leave out the
--fg-scenery option on the command line, I don't get my custom scenery, but
I *do* get the HUD symbology. If I add in the --fg-scenery option, I do get
the custom scenery, but not the HUD symbology. :-)

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded

2012-11-11 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Also, if I specify only the custom scenery path - as in the command line
below - I get the errors that follow. Don't know if those are revealing or
unexpected ...

bin/Win64/fgfs.exe --fg-root=./data --fg-scenery=./scenery
--aircraft=CitationX --native-fdm=socket,in,30,,5550,udp --fdm=external
--airport=KCHS

Cannot find Nasal script './data/Nasal/local_weather ...
...
Nasal runtime error: non-objects have no members
...

Jon

 -Original Message-
 From: Jon S. Berndt [mailto:jonsber...@comcast.net]
 Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 9:33 AM
 To: 'FlightGear developers discussions'
 Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded
 
  When the HUD no longer works, make sure you haven't deleted anything
  in FGDATA - like the fonts. You don't need to define the path to the
  base scenery (within fgdata). If you downloaded additional scenery,
 in
  one or multiple separate directories, you can separate the paths with
 :
  (works also on Windows).
 
  fgfs --fg-root=FGDATA_PATH --fg-scenery=CUSTOM_PATH1:CUSTOM_PATH2:...
 
  cheers,
  Thorsten
 
 Still no HUD symbology with the custom scenery. If I leave out the --
 fg-scenery option on the command line, I don't get my custom scenery,
 but I *do* get the HUD symbology. If I add in the --fg-scenery option,
 I do get the custom scenery, but not the HUD symbology. :-)
 
 Jon
 
 
 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded

2012-11-11 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 Am 11.11.2012 17:39, schrieb Jon S. Berndt:
  Also, if I specify only the custom scenery path - as in the command
  line below - I get the errors that follow. Don't know if those are
  revealing or unexpected ...
 
  bin/Win64/fgfs.exe --fg-root=./data --fg-scenery=./scenery
  --aircraft=CitationX --native-fdm=socket,in,30,,5550,udp
  --fdm=external --airport=KCHS
 
  Cannot find Nasal script './data/Nasal/local_weather ...
 
 Aha... You must not use relative paths on Windows. Only absolute paths
 are supported.

Thanks for the reply. The path handling in FlightGear seems a bit delicate.
Not sure if in Cygwin under Windows I need to be more unix-like, or more
windows-like in specifying paths. I'll play with that some, but relative
paths do work - at least selectively, for some things. I tried full
unix-style path names, and that didn't work at all (couldn't find the base
package).

Jon





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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded

2012-11-11 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Well, I've tried all sorts of combinations of pathnames, using different
path name specification forms (windows, linux, etc.) and I can get
FlightGear to run using several of the forms - and to load the scenery I
desire, as well - I cannot get both the custom scenery and the HUD symbology
to work at the same time. Note that I am using the external FDM, if that
makes a difference.

Using full pathnames I was able to get rid of the Nasal errors - and now
have no errors, but like I wrote, I still can't get both the HUD and custom
scenery at the same time. :-(

I'm currently suggesting that this is a bug.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded

2012-11-11 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 Well, I've tried all sorts of combinations of pathnames, using
 different path name specification forms (windows, linux, etc.) and I
 can get FlightGear to run using several of the forms - and to load the
 scenery I desire, as well - I cannot get both the custom scenery and
 the HUD symbology to work at the same time. Note that I am using the
 external FDM, if that makes a difference.
 
 Using full pathnames I was able to get rid of the Nasal errors - and
 now have no errors, but like I wrote, I still can't get both the HUD
 and custom scenery at the same time. :-(
 
 I'm currently suggesting that this is a bug.
 
 Jon

BTW, the form I used that seems to work for path names in a Cygwin bash
shell under Windows Vista 64 is:

export FG_ROOT=C:\\cygwin\\home\\jon\\FlightGear\\data
export FG_SCENERY= C:\\cygwin\\home\\jon\\FlightGear\\scenery

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded

2012-11-10 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Figured it out. Per the Wiki instructions for installing terrain, apparently
you can't just download scenery into the $FG_ROOT path (it's still not clear
to me why not). 

I have a new problem, now, though. I do see the scenery (when I get under
about 6000 feet - until then I see only white fog) since I gave the path to
the directory outside $FG_ROOT where I placed the terrain, but now I no
longer get proper HUD symbology - the numbers aren't there anymore. Any
suggestions on how I can do this? I'm not sure how I can set two scenery
paths on the cygwin command line for starting FlightGear.

Jon


 -Original Message-
 From: Jon S. Berndt [mailto:jonsber...@comcast.net]
 Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 3:59 PM
 To: 'FlightGear developers discussions'
 Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded
 
 Another thing: the Moon descends through the fog and is still visible -
 there doesn't seem to be any terrain that gets in the way and occludes
 it.
 Even when I am right on top of where the runway should be, there is
 nothing except blue water.
 
 Jon
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Jon S. Berndt [mailto:jonsber...@comcast.net]
  Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 3:53 PM
  To: 'FlightGear developers discussions'
  Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded
 
  I'm running the latest FlightGear (64 bit v2.8.0.5, under Windows 7).
  I'm driving it from an external instance of JSBSim, and it's working
  very well except that no terrain is loaded. I can see what looks like
  a planet below me that is covered in fog. Altitude ranges from about
  40kft to 200kft, and then down again to an airfield at near sea
 level.
  It is very important that I get this running very quickly (within the
  next 24 hours) so I can make a video. I have downloaded the relevant
  scenery files and untarred them into the $FG_ROOT/Scenery directory.
 I
  downloaded the archives for the south east seaboard of the U.S.
 
  Any suggestions and help will be much appreciated.
 
  Jon
 
 
 
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[Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded

2012-11-09 Thread Jon S. Berndt
I'm running the latest FlightGear (64 bit v2.8.0.5, under Windows 7). I'm
driving it from an external instance of JSBSim, and it's working very well
except that no terrain is loaded. I can see what looks like a planet below
me that is covered in fog. Altitude ranges from about 40kft to 200kft, and
then down again to an airfield at near sea level. It is very important that
I get this running very quickly (within the next 24 hours) so I can make a
video. I have downloaded the relevant scenery files and untarred them into
the $FG_ROOT/Scenery directory. I downloaded the archives for the south east
seaboard of the U.S.

Any suggestions and help will be much appreciated.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded

2012-11-09 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Another thing: the Moon descends through the fog and is still visible -
there doesn't seem to be any terrain that gets in the way and occludes it.
Even when I am right on top of where the runway should be, there is nothing
except blue water.

Jon

 -Original Message-
 From: Jon S. Berndt [mailto:jonsber...@comcast.net]
 Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 3:53 PM
 To: 'FlightGear developers discussions'
 Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery not being loaded
 
 I'm running the latest FlightGear (64 bit v2.8.0.5, under Windows 7).
 I'm driving it from an external instance of JSBSim, and it's working
 very well except that no terrain is loaded. I can see what looks like a
 planet below me that is covered in fog. Altitude ranges from about
 40kft to 200kft, and then down again to an airfield at near sea level.
 It is very important that I get this running very quickly (within the
 next 24 hours) so I can make a video. I have downloaded the relevant
 scenery files and untarred them into the $FG_ROOT/Scenery directory. I
 downloaded the archives for the south east seaboard of the U.S.
 
 Any suggestions and help will be much appreciated.
 
 Jon
 
 
 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FSWeekend 2012...

2012-11-04 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 ... is already over now, unfortunately.
 
 For those who couldn't attend but are interested in what it was like
 (make sure to join next year!), here are some photos showing the event
 and FlightGear booth:
 
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/70866411@N05/sets/72157631926925511/detail
 /
 
 More details are probably to follow (maybe Durk will explain how he
 managed to reserve the hall's huge main projection screen exclusively
 for FlightGear - and how a silly broomstick is connected... :-) ).
 
 Thanks to every attending this year! Yet again, it's been a lot of fun
 :).
 
 cheers,
 Thorsten



Did you run into Austin Meyer (X-Plane)?

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fg Fuel System Changes

2012-10-22 Thread Jon S. Berndt
John,

 

Yes, there were some changes. I’ll try to help out soon, but am limited on time 
at the moment. You might search the JSBSim mailing list for the “tank priority” 
terms. 

 

Briefly, as I recall, there is now a “priority” element, with priority “1” 
being the highest. I forget if “0” means anything. Any tank with the same 
priority provides fuel until all tanks of the same priority are empty. Then, 
the next priority tanks are used (1, then 2, then …).

 

The “new” tank system was introduced by one of our developers who is also an 
airline pilot. Unfortunately, I don’t think that the features is widely used, 
yet – at least in models in the JSBSim repository. I’m using it in one vehicle 
model now, but can’t share that.

 

I hope this helps. You might try cross-posting to the JSBSim developer list, 
too. Let me know if you need more help.

 

Jon

 

 

From: castle...@comcast.net [mailto:castle...@comcast.net] 
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 10:41 AM
To: FlightGear developers discussions
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Fg Fuel System Changes

 

HI,

Had been running with fg-2.4 for some time and finally getting around to 
upgrading to 2.8.  Seems there where some changes to the fuel and tanking 
system in JSBSiim starting with 2.6.  It breaks the mods made to the code to 
support the 737/747 full scale cockpits tanking models in 2.4 and prior.

In large aircraft such as the 7x7 types the fuel is NOT drawn equally from all 
tanks.  Rather, in terms of graph theory, you should think of the tanking 
system as a fully connected graph for the tanks, engines, and crossfeed valves. 
Such that any feed tank can feed any engine or all engines can draw from one 
feed tank.  The case where all tanks feed to a manifold that supplies all 
engines is just one special case.

At any rate, is there a writeup on the changes? Or might the author find some 
time to describe what was changed?

Having trouble understanding how to the FuelExpended variable to a specific 
tank and how to pass the tank contents onto the flightgear side.
Here is how it works in my 2.4:

this was the mod to the FGEngine::ConsumeFuel(void) in 2.4

   if ( Active_Tank = 0 ) {
 Tank = Propulsion-GetTank(Active_Tank);
if (Tank-GetType() == FGTank::ttFUEL) {
   //Fshortage += Tank-Drain(CalcFuelNeed()/TanksWithFuel);  // SEE NOTE 
ABOVE
Fshortage += Tank-Drain(CalcFuelNeed() );
}
  } else Starved = true;

where Active_Tank was a value passed from the cockpit fuel control panel (via 
network controls) to fg and the fg/jsbsim interface in jsbsim.cpp.

and this was the code to transfer fuel in the 737 model to the center feed tank

  // Remove equal amount of fuel from each feed tank.  
//  FuelNeeded = FuelToBurn/TanksWithFuel;
//  for (i=0; iFeedList.size(); i++) {
//Tank = Propulsion-GetTank(FeedList[i]);
//Tank-Drain(FuelNeeded); 
//  }

Tank_0 = Propulsion-GetTank(0);
double center_fuel = Tank_0-GetContents();
if ( center_fuel  6000.0 ) transfer = true;
else if ( center_fuel  9000.0 ) transfer = false;
if ( transfer ) {
Tank_1 = Propulsion-GetTank(1);
if ( Tank_1-GetContents()  100.0 ) {
Tank_0-Fill( 0.040 );
Tank_1-Drain( 0.040 );
}
Tank_2 = Propulsion-GetTank(2);
if ( Tank_2-GetContents()  100.0 ) {
Tank_0-Fill( 0.0401 );
Tank_2-Drain( 0.0401 );
}
}

So setting Active_Tank=0 has both engines drawing from the center tank and when 
it drops below 6000# the fuel transfer system fills until it reaches 9000# or 
the pilot can select, via the fuel control panel, to feed each engine directly 
or crossfeed as desired.  Setting Active_Tank=-1 starves the engine.

The 747 is much more complex and, in the interest of brevity, is not discussed.

The entire function ConsumeFuel is removed and having some difficulty 
undestanding how FuelExpended is interfaced to draw down the tanks.

Any help would be apprecuated.

John

  _  

 

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fg Fuel System Changes

2012-10-22 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Here’s an overview of the fuel system from the perspective of a user – not a 
developer, but maybe it helps.

 

Do you need the API documentation? Try here for a start: 

 

http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGTank.html

 

Jon

 

 

 

Here's an overview of the fuel handling in JSBSim now.

 

At load-time the propulsion system (FGPropulsion) reads the configuration file 
and builds a list of engines and a list of tanks.

 

Each engine creates a list of feed tanks using the feed tag.  This list is 
only created at load-time, but in the future I'd like to see run-time control 
over this list.  The list is owned by each FGEngine and is called SourceTanks.  
The list is the same size as the number of tanks, and each list item 
corresponds to a tank.  At load-time each list member is set to zero, and when 
a feed tag is encountered the list member corresponding to that tank is set 
to non-zero.  The engine will only feed from tanks that have a non-zero value 
in SourceTanks.  The non-zero value happens to be equal to the tank's priority, 
but it's only treated as a non-zero in the ConsumeFuel() algorithm.  It could 
just as well be zeroes and ones.  This is, in effect, a map of all the tanks, 
representing which ones are allowed to feed this engine.  The trick in making 
this run-time modifiable will be to decide on a scheme to allow one property to 
modify this map. 

 

Each tank has a priority value, with 1 being the highest priority.  The 

default value is 1.   The priority is an attribute owned by the tank, and 

it's exposed to the property tree, so the priority can be changed at run-time.  
Since the priority is owned by the tank, this means that all engines will see 
the same priority from a given tank.  Setting the priority to zero is like 
closing a valve at the tank.  So far this is the only valve you have control 
over in the fuel system.  

 

The SourceTanks list, belonging to each engine, can be thought of as a set of 
valves too.  Each engine is connected to all tanks, but a valve at the engine 
is closed for each list member with a value of zero.

 

When refueling is activated (by setting the property propulsion/refuel to 1 
or true) fuel is added at the same rate to ALL tanks at a total transfer rate 
of 6000 lbs per minute, hardcoded.  This code presently ignores tank priority.  
It also ignores what fluid is supposed to be in a particular tank, so don't use 
this with a rocket.  The refuel code could use some work.

 

When dumping fuel (by setting the property propulsion/fuel_dump to 1 or

true)  fuel is removed from ALL tanks down to any standpipe level previously 
defined at load-time for each tank.  The dump rate is defined at load-time, and 
is the rate for the entire fuel system.  This code ignores tank priority.  

If no standpipe is defined, all fuel will be dumped.  Default dump rate is zero.

 

Total fuel quantity is calculated in FGPropulsion::Run() and written to the 
property propulsion/total-fuel-lbs.

 

Fuel temperature is calculated in FGTank::Calculate(), but only for tanks that 
had an initial temperature defined at load-time.

 

Fuel quantity is always measured by weight.  There is no method in the code for 
conversion to volume, and there is no tracking of fuel density.  FGPiston does 
provide a gal/hr output, and uses 6.0 lb/gal as the conversion factor.  

FlightGear manipulates the JSBSim tank quantities by converting gallons to 
pounds in JSBSim.cxx, using a conversion factor of 6.6 lb/gal.

 

Dave

 

 

From: Jon S. Berndt [mailto:jonsber...@comcast.net] 
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 7:27 PM
To: 'FlightGear developers discussions'
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fg Fuel System Changes

 

John,

 

Yes, there were some changes. I’ll try to help out soon, but am limited on time 
at the moment. You might search the JSBSim mailing list for the “tank priority” 
terms. 

 

Briefly, as I recall, there is now a “priority” element, with priority “1” 
being the highest. I forget if “0” means anything. Any tank with the same 
priority provides fuel until all tanks of the same priority are empty. Then, 
the next priority tanks are used (1, then 2, then …).

 

The “new” tank system was introduced by one of our developers who is also an 
airline pilot. Unfortunately, I don’t think that the features is widely used, 
yet – at least in models in the JSBSim repository. I’m using it in one vehicle 
model now, but can’t share that.

 

I hope this helps. You might try cross-posting to the JSBSim developer list, 
too. Let me know if you need more help.

 

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Physics engine of Flightgear

2012-10-17 Thread Jon S. Berndt
There are two primary ones:

 

-  YASim

-  JSBSim

 

See: http://wiki.flightgear.org/Flight_Dynamics_Model

 

Jon

 

 

From: kunai...@yahoo.co.jp [mailto:kunai...@yahoo.co.jp] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 12:28 AM
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Physics engine of Flightgear

 

 

Hello, I’m kunai.

Now I use Flight gear but I have three questions.

1 Is there a physics engine of Flight gear in SimGear?

2 What’s name a physics engine?

3 If I study SimGear and physics engine, what should I do?

I beg your kindness.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Quad-copters

2012-10-14 Thread Jon S. Berndt
If I'm not mistaken, there's already a quad copter flight modeled with
JSBSim.

 

Jon

 

 

From: Curtis Olson [mailto:curtol...@flightgear.org] 
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 7:05 PM
To: FlightGear developers discussions
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Quad-copters

 

Quick question:  Do we have any working/flying examples of quad-copters in
FlightGear?  One of my friends from the U of MN is involved in a cool
quad-copter based kickstarter.com project:

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/qfolabs/mimixtm-tilt-to-fly-controller-a
nd-nanoqtm-copter

 

It's fairly hackable so it might be a fun one to model in FlightGear, and
maybe even be able to fly the simulated version with the real controller.


 

Thanks,

 

Curt.

-- 

Curtis Olson:

http://www.atiak.com http://www.atiak.com/  - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/

http://www.flightgear.org http://www.flightgear.org/  -
http://gallinazo.flightgear.org http://gallinazo.flightgear.org/ 

 

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Quad-copters

2012-10-14 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Yeah, look here:

 

http://diydrones.com/profiles/blog/list?user=0bcj6vzj8r2k0

 

Jon

 

 

From: Curtis Olson [mailto:curtol...@flightgear.org] 
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 7:05 PM
To: FlightGear developers discussions
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Quad-copters

 

Quick question:  Do we have any working/flying examples of quad-copters in
FlightGear?  One of my friends from the U of MN is involved in a cool
quad-copter based kickstarter.com project:

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/qfolabs/mimixtm-tilt-to-fly-controller-a
nd-nanoqtm-copter

 

It's fairly hackable so it might be a fun one to model in FlightGear, and
maybe even be able to fly the simulated version with the real controller.


 

Thanks,

 

Curt.

-- 

Curtis Olson:

http://www.atiak.com http://www.atiak.com/  - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/

http://www.flightgear.org http://www.flightgear.org/  -
http://gallinazo.flightgear.org http://gallinazo.flightgear.org/ 

 

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FW:Using FlightGear to visualize JSBSim state

2012-10-04 Thread Jon S. Berndt
I found that if I waited a little but longer so that FlightGear was
completely started up, and used UDP instead of TCP that it worked. Great!


 -Original Message-
 From: Jon S. Berndt [mailto:jonsber...@comcast.net]
 Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 6:03 AM
 To: 'FlightGear developers discussions'
 Subject: [Flightgear-devel] FW:Using FlightGear to visualize JSBSim
 state
 
 I've been trying to drive FlightGear from an external instance of
 JSBSim running, over a socket. Not having much luck at the moment.
 Looks like I have the correct net_fdm header (version 24).
 
 I start FlightGear like this:
 
 $ FlightGear/projects/VC90/Win32/Release/fgfs.exe
 --fg-root=c:/cygwin/home/jon/flightgear/fgdata --aircraft=c172p --
 native-fdm=socket,in,60,,5500,tcp --fdm=external
 
 After that is started up I crank up JSBSim with an output specified in
 the aircraft config file like this (per the email from HDWysong):
 
 output name=localhost type=FLIGHTGEAR port=5500 rate=60/
 
 In the JSBSim console I get this:
 
 Successfully connected to socket for output ...
 send: Software caused connection abort
 send: Software caused connection abort
 send: Software caused connection abort
 ...
 
 FlightGear immediately core dumps.
 
 Any suggestions?
 
 Jon
 
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Jon S. Berndt [mailto:jonsber...@comcast.net]
  Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 5:20 AM
  To: 'Development issues'
  Subject: Re: [Jsbsim-devel] Using FlightGear to visualize JSBSim
 state
 
  That was it. Thanks.
 
  Although I did get FlightGear to start up in this mode, it core
 dumped
  when I tried to connect from JSBSim. I wonder if I need to update the
  net fdm header.
 
  Jon
 
   -Original Message-
   From: Anders Gidenstam [mailto:anders-...@gidenstam.org]
   Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:03 AM
   To: 'Development issues'
   Subject: Re: [Jsbsim-devel] Using FlightGear to visualize JSBSim
  state
  
   On Tue, 2 Oct 2012, Jon S. Berndt wrote:
  
Not sure it does work:
   
FlightGear/projects/VC90/Win32/Release/fgfs.exe
--fg-root=c:/cygwin/home/jon/flightgear/fgdata --aircraft=c172p
native-fdm=socket,in,60,,55p --fdm=external
   
Processing command line arguments
Fatal error: Failed to open file
at native-fdm=socket,in,60,,5500,tcp (received from SimGear XML
Parser)
  
   Did you drop the '--' that should go before native-fdm when
   transcribing the command line to the message? Or are they missing
   there too?
  
   If it is the latter SG tried and failed to open the file native-
   fdm=socket,in,60,,5500,tcp.
  
   Cheers,
  
   Anders
   --
   ---
 -
   -
  -
   -
   
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   WWW: http://gitorious.org/anders-hangar
 http://www.gidenstam.org/FlightGear/
  
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 Relic
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[Flightgear-devel] FW:Using FlightGear to visualize JSBSim state

2012-10-03 Thread Jon S. Berndt
I've been trying to drive FlightGear from an external instance of JSBSim
running, over a socket. Not having much luck at the moment. Looks like I
have the correct net_fdm header (version 24).

I start FlightGear like this:

$ FlightGear/projects/VC90/Win32/Release/fgfs.exe
--fg-root=c:/cygwin/home/jon/flightgear/fgdata --aircraft=c172p
--native-fdm=socket,in,60,,5500,tcp --fdm=external

After that is started up I crank up JSBSim with an output specified in the
aircraft config file like this (per the email from HDWysong):

output name=localhost type=FLIGHTGEAR port=5500 rate=60/

In the JSBSim console I get this:

Successfully connected to socket for output ...
send: Software caused connection abort
send: Software caused connection abort
send: Software caused connection abort
...

FlightGear immediately core dumps.

Any suggestions?

Jon




 -Original Message-
 From: Jon S. Berndt [mailto:jonsber...@comcast.net]
 Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 5:20 AM
 To: 'Development issues'
 Subject: Re: [Jsbsim-devel] Using FlightGear to visualize JSBSim state
 
 That was it. Thanks.
 
 Although I did get FlightGear to start up in this mode, it core dumped 
 when I tried to connect from JSBSim. I wonder if I need to update the 
 net fdm header.
 
 Jon
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Anders Gidenstam [mailto:anders-...@gidenstam.org]
  Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:03 AM
  To: 'Development issues'
  Subject: Re: [Jsbsim-devel] Using FlightGear to visualize JSBSim
 state
 
  On Tue, 2 Oct 2012, Jon S. Berndt wrote:
 
   Not sure it does work:
  
   FlightGear/projects/VC90/Win32/Release/fgfs.exe
   --fg-root=c:/cygwin/home/jon/flightgear/fgdata --aircraft=c172p 
   native-fdm=socket,in,60,,55p --fdm=external
  
   Processing command line arguments
   Fatal error: Failed to open file
   at native-fdm=socket,in,60,,5500,tcp (received from SimGear XML
   Parser)
 
  Did you drop the '--' that should go before native-fdm when 
  transcribing the command line to the message? Or are they missing 
  there too?
 
  If it is the latter SG tried and failed to open the file native- 
  fdm=socket,in,60,,5500,tcp.
 
  Cheers,
 
  Anders
  --
  
  -
 -
  -
  
  Anders Gidenstam
  WWW: http://gitorious.org/anders-hangar
http://www.gidenstam.org/FlightGear/
 
  
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] X-Plane sued for patent infringement

2012-09-16 Thread Jon S. Berndt
I tried to post, but it appears my post went away.

 

I noticed that one of the comments made a remark about X-plane aerodynamics.
I think it might be time for a paper on that which we can use to inform
people.

 

Jon

 

 

From: Curtis Olson [mailto:curtol...@flightgear.org] 
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 10:52 AM
To: FlightGear developers discussions
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] X-Plane sued for patent infringement

 

I posted something to slashdot, but I guess it came out as anonymous
coward.   Honestly, there are a lot of sharp people that read slashdot, but
for every one of them, there are 10 complete morons.  And at least on
slashdot, the dumber the person and the less information they are armed
with, the more emphatic they will make their point.  I personally don't have
time to correct every statement on slashdot, especially with people that
shout louder than me.  And my comment probably is ranked so low no one will
actually see it, but hey, I did put in 15 minutes of effort here. :-)

 

If someone else wants to be the flightgear slashdot information correctness
ambassador I will be happy to give you an appointment and give you an
official title, and even an official email address.


Curt.

 

On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net wrote:

On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 08:42:40 +0200, Tim wrote in message
CAPK_1fyqmUGgLrEO8KEUPGNvUHb5Frcr=ypieemg7m_oyjn...@mail.gmail.com:


 http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/09/14/2048240/patent-troll-sues-x-plane

 It turns out that the patent has nothing to do with flight simulation
 but with remote license checking, but still. The Slashdot article has
 the line X-plane is a cross-platform flight simulator app, notably
 the only serious one that supports Mac OSX and Linux. In the comments
 the serious part refers to X-Plane being FAA certified. Now, I
 know that software isn't FAA certified -- complete systems --are and
 that FlightGear has been used in commercial simulators too, but
 someone (Curt?) with the real details might want to chime in with a
 correction.

..looks like Austin's big sin was make X-plane an Android app.
Who are the other 8 app developers?

..he should have dual-licensed X-Plane, _much_ easier to
find pro bono lawyer etc help with the GPL.   Oh well.

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http://www.atiak.com http://www.atiak.com/  - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/

http://www.flightgear.org http://www.flightgear.org/  -
http://gallinazo.flightgear.org http://gallinazo.flightgear.org/ 

 

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Running Nasal at simulation rate

2012-08-29 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 Concerning your original issue on implementing an autopilot: a much
 better way to do it is to avoid Nasal for the actual autopilot
 controller elements (numeric computation). Instead, use XML autopilot
 rules for the filter, gain, damper, integrator elements:
 http://wiki.flightgear.org/Autopilot_Configuration_Reference
 
 You can then use Nasal for the high level stuff, and
 enable/disable/switch the individual controller elements (e.g. in order
 to automatically switch the autopilot mode when capturing the ILS).
 There are some nice examples with fgdata/Git aircraft. You could look
 at the 777.
 
 This is also how such things are done in the real world: controllers
 aren't implemented in imperative programming languages these days -
 especially not in scripting languages. People use model-based design
 and connect controller elements - using graphical tools like
 MATLAB/Simulink. Obviously, FG is missing a graphical interface to
 specify the controller rules - but the idea of specifying through XML
 is the same and specification is straight forward.
 
 cheers,
 Thorsten

I'd strongly agree with Thorsten here. It's nothing against Nasal from me -
I've not even used it - but creating an autopilot (or any GNC or system
model, for that matter) can be done very effectively with discrete objects
such as summers, gains, controllers, filters, switches, etc., much as JSBSim
has done with the system components. This is a standard approach in industry
as Thorsten mentions as exemplified by Mathwork's $imulink product.
Scilab/Scicos is similar in concept. Control system topologies are often
diagrammed in a way that can lead to a one-to-one correspondence between a
block and a control system object that can be referenced in an XML file, if
the control system component library has been defined properly. This, again,
is the way that JSBSim has approached the solution.

Some benefits to such an approach include (IMHO) better testability, more
predictability, and easier interface (someday) with a GUI tool, should one
materialize. The downside is that XML can be verbose, but it's a price I've
come to accept.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Gear transit times

2012-08-29 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Jack,

 

Check out the attached message from the JSBSim developer list.

 

Jon

 

 

From: castle...@comcast.net [mailto:castle...@comcast.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 7:52 PM
To: FlightGear developers discussions
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Gear transit times

 

Hi,
 
Is it possible to specify gear up and down transit times for each gear?  In 
real airplanes the gear never ( well rarely, maybe ) sequence in perfect 
unison.  In reviewing the xml files for the 737, I note there are transit times 
defined for each flap position, but the kinematics for the gear is only a 
single value for up or down based on gear selection state.

Is this something in Nasal?  or native code or something in JSBsim?

Thanks
Jack

  _  

 

---BeginMessage---
 Happy New Year everybody. 
 
 I have been working on individual gear motion and failure for 
 the last week and I think the result is usable.
 This change deals with the following:
 
 a) The gear position is computed for each individual gear if 
 it is retractable and stored in a property named 
 gear/unit[n]/pos-norm. The current implementation holds all 
 gear positions in the property gear/gear-pos-norm.
 The suggested implementation does not break existing 
 configurations that use gear/gear-pos-norm. 
 
 b) To make a gear prone to failures, a actuator element may 
 be used to drive each individual gear instead of a 
 kinematic element.
 
 My configuration for the landing gear looks like this:
 
 channel name=Landing Gear
 actuator name=Gear Nose Actuator
 inputgear/gear-cmd-norm/input
 rate_limit0.1/rate_limit
 outputgear/unit[0]/pos-norm/output
 /actuator
 actuator name=Gear Left Actuator
 inputgear/gear-cmd-norm/input
 rate_limit0.13/rate_limit
 outputgear/unit[1]/pos-norm/output
 /actuator
 actuator name=Gear Right Actuator
 inputgear/gear-cmd-norm/input
 rate_limit0.15/rate_limit
 outputgear/unit[2]/pos-norm/output
 /actuator
 /channel
 
 Three files have to be changed for this:
 FGLGear.h
 introduces the method GetGearUnitPos() and two variables 
 GearPos for the current gear unit position and useFCSGearPos, 
 a flag for backward compatibility.
 
 FGLGear.cpp
 - implements GetGearUnitPos() which returns the current gear 
 unit position. It checks if the useFCSGearPos flag is set or 
 the gear/gear-pos-norm property has changed. This is for 
 backward compatibility
 - binds and unbinds the gear/unit[n]/pos-norm properties the 
 the GearPos variable
 
 JSBSim.cpp
 use the new gear-GetGearPos() method instead of FCS-GetGearPos()
 
 I have succesfully testet this with an existing unchanged 
 configuration for the 737 and a modified configuration using 
 the above example for the SenecaII.
 
 Here are FlightGear screenshots demonstrating the new feature:
 http://www.t3r.de/fg/gear-failure-1.jpg
 http://www.t3r.de/fg/gear-failure-2.jpg
 http://www.t3r.de/fg/gear-failure-3.jpg
 
 I hope this finds its way into JSBSim - it's fun to try a 
 landing on a partially failed gear. Comments are welcome.
 
 The attached diff is against FlightGear cvs, but I can 
 provide one against current JSBSim cvs.
 
 Sorry for the long posting.
 
 Torsten

Hi, Torsten:

Hey, don't apologize for the long posting - it usually means a lot of
work has been done. :-)

In theory, treating each landing gear individually seems like a good
idea. In retrospect, I don't know why we didn't do it that way in the
first place.

The changes seem sensible. I'll look at this more at lunchtime. Unless
anyone has any objections, I'll try to get this into JSBSim cvs in the
next day or two. If I don't, please remind me and/or post a Feature
Request at the JSBSim web site. I've been trying to address some of
those in the past few days, and having the feature request and bug
reports has been very helpful.

Next, we probably should think about doing something similar for the
spoilers, flaps, etc. - that is, treating them individually. I have some
thoughts on that, but that's another topic.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Earthview - Orbital terrain rendering in FG

2012-03-16 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 2) The high altitude FDM problem:
 
 Our only spacecraft (Vostok) makes just 150 km altitude, apparently to
 prevent it from running into a region where the FDM breaks down. This
 isn't nearly high enough to see nice orbit scenes without pushing
 gigabytes of textures at the problem. I have not really understood the
 reason in detail, but can the JSBSim people comment on that? Is it
 possible to get JSBSim to fly up to 3000 km, or to otherwise address
 this problem?

Hi, Thorsten,

Nice work.

You ought to be able to initialize any vehicle at any altitude (up to and
even beyond 3000 km). At this time, only the Vostok has control jets, as far
as I know.

Getting the initial conditions correct might take some thought and trials.
If I have time over the next few days maybe I can come up with some initial
conditions. I know how to specify these conditions in JSBSim, where we can
select any of a number of reference frames, but I'm not sure how to have
control over initial conditions in FlightGear. Specifying true airspeed
certainly won't work. ;-)

 3) Other Spacecraft:
 
 We currently have the X-15 (reaches barely 100 km and is in fact better
 with the default rendering engine), SpaceShip-1 (doesn't really fly,
 the rocket engine lacks the power to get anywhere, is also just a
 modern X-15), the Vostok (see above) and a Space Shuttle FDM.
 
 Given the Space Shuttle FDM and the discussion of Space Shuttle SRBs in
 the JSBSim model, it may just a wild stab in the dark, but does Jon
 have a complete  flight-worthy Space Shuttle FDM somewhere?

Our space shuttle orbiter model (from many years ago) is incomplete, and
based on limited data from publicly available tech reports. I do have a
J246 model that is a launch vehicle designed to place heavy payloads into
orbit. That is incomplete, and awaiting some simple guidance for the upper
stage to try and get it into orbit from the launch pad. A couple of years
ago Robin Gerard made a 3D model of that, as well as the pad. It will be
nice to see that fly someday.

 It's one of the things I would like to fly at some point. Now there is
 something to see in orbit, so maybe that makes it more interesting for
 3d modellers and FDM developers to work on some more spacecraft? It's a
 bit of a chicken and egg problem, modelling orbital rendering isn't
 really so exciting without a way to fly there, modelling spacecraft
 isn't interesting without rendering - but I think there is progress.
 Right now, with Earthview FG looks better than Orbiter out of the box,
 although Orbiter has the support for hires texturing. But when you
 descend, Flightgear has a whole planet modelled in really high detail
 to offer :-)

I'm glad to see more effort being put towards this. I think it could be a
lot of fun, and educational, too.

Jon





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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 172p cockpit improvement

2011-12-22 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 Ah, yes, found it in McCormick's Chapter six. Should we add some
 comment in c172p.xml as a reference for future generations? The
 computation is not very intuitive at first sight (at least for me).
 
 Torsten

I think that's a very good idea. 

Also, I guess we should have some discussion on where the official version
of some JSBSim aircraft should reside. I think I'll be culling some models
from the JSBSim distribution - models that have been untouched for a long
time. I'd like to issue a new release - a formal v1.0 release - on the
JSBSim site soon, since I've been getting some polite pressure to do so. :-)

It's important to maintain some good flight models in the JSBSim
distribution, but I can understand the problems that dual-hosting can lead
to.

I don't have any suggestions in mind...

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] turbine inlet temperature in the seneca (TIT)

2011-12-06 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 Tuomas,
 
 I can say for certain that YASim does not model TIT, and I believe
 JSBsim doesn't either, though there seems to be a stub for TIT
 modeling which may be where that property comes from. Someone please
 correct me if I'm wrong about JSBsim and TIT. A developer may have
 written custom code to model turbine inlet temp for a specific model,
 but I'm not aware of any examples.
 
 I'm currently working on a project that aims to handle multi-cylinder
 temperature reporting and yield results good enough to at least teach
 the concepts of best power/best economy and LOP operations.
 Unfortunately my effort doesn't yet model turbocharged engines.
 
 Since you're using the JSBsim-based Seneca II, you might want to
 consider working with JSBsim to add the necessary modeling for TIT, if
 it doesn't already exist. You might try posting on the JSBsim forum on
 this topic, as someone may already be developing this.
 
 -Gary aka Buckaroo

You can implement pretty much anything you want to as a function in an
engine specification or a system in JSBSim, as long as the variables that a
function depends on are publicly available. Ask on the JSBSim list. I don't
have time to answer now, but maybe someone else can. Or, I can provide an
example and discussion later tonight - maybe.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] The state of things in Flight Gear

2011-08-01 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 From: thorsten.i.r...@jyu.fi
 
 To provide the context: I wrote the above in response to pictures of Mars
 (from Celestia) being posted and talk about Apollo missions, i.e. having
 interplanetary missions in mind. (Jon actually knows that, because I
 explained it later in the thread :-) ) - something which my wording
 'orbital flight' actually doesn't reflect.

Yes - I wanted it to be understood that *Earth* orbital flight is possible.

:-)

 I will be convinced that stability is not an issue here if someone
 demonstrates to me that a 4 month fast-forward running the simulation
 at a factor 1.000.000 time acceleration gets you a few 100.000.000 km
later
 precisely where you're supposed to be. Gravitational slingshots require
 an incredible precision - you can't be 100 km off at target.
 
 Cheers,
 
 * Thorsten

Yes.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] The state of things in Flight Gear

2011-07-29 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 From: thorsten.i.r...@jyu.fi [mailto:]
 
 I think it's grossly unfair to mix these issues: Spaceflight requires
 to essentially write a space simulator. One of my first statements in the
 forum was:
 
 Orbital flights opens a whole new can of worms besides the need for
 different rendering - completely different physics, completely different
 numerical stability issues,... basically you want to write a new orbital
 simulator, because the amount of stuff you can really use from a flight
 simulator is pretty small.

At one time I thought this to be true, but it is not necessarily. We have
been working on JSBSim very hard over the past years (thanks to the efforts
of Fröhlich, Coconnier, myself, and others) to make sure that JSBSim can
handle orbital dynamics properly - because if orbital dynamic are handled
properly, it's a good indicator that aircraft dynamics are, as well. We can
now do a high altitude, high inclination, high-eccentricity, orbit (with the
spacecraft rotating) and after one simulated day end up a few hundred feet
from the spot in space where a well-regarded software tool (AGI's STK
product) says we should be. The dynamics of flight are not really different
at all. Stability is not a problem. I would disagree with your statements
above and in fact my experience has been almost the opposite, except for the
rendering problem, which I have no experience with. I have been approached
to help with testing JSBSim with Outerra, however, and obviously they are
doing rendering very well from space to ground.

 ...
 
 I still think that is a correct statement (up to the part that JSBSim
 seems adequately equipped to get ascent and descent right, although we
 don't know about long-term orbital stability - which wasn't clear to me
 when I wrote it)- so from where I am standing, you are claiming that
 Flightgear development is failing based on the observation that people
 could not write a spaceflight simulation in 6 months or tell you how to
 do that.

 Just my two cents.
 
 * Thorsten

Given the criticisms of our high-altitude atmosphere model from previous
discussions, I went ahead and revamped our atmosphere model. It's still a
work-in-progress, but the atmosphere model should eventually be much more
realistic at higher altitudes, and be useful for some limited spaceflight
use. I have no idea how well a re-entering spacecraft will track along the
expected trajectory, though. That remains to be seen.

Personally, I would like to see FlightGear to be made usable for orbital
flight, but I can imagine that would be a lot of work.

Jon

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[Flightgear-devel] More realistic videos

2011-07-22 Thread Jon S. Berndt
I've noticed sometimes that the videos produced by the flightgear community
have some characteristics that make them seem unrealistic - not that they
aren't still enjoyable to watch. I look for new ones regularly.

I think they could be better, though. There are some things that could be
done that might make them appear more realistic, but I have no time or idea
how to implement the features. One of the things I think would help is to
allow the object being looked at by the camera (ostensibly the target
aircraft) to drift from the exact center of the view. Looking at the exact
center of the aircraft and keeping it in the center of the view looks
artificial. There should be some force pulling the camera aim point back to
center on the aircraft, but allowing the camera some delay and slop in
exactly tracking the aircraft center would help, I think.

And turbulence should be turned on. :-)

My $0.02.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Turbulence in YASim vs. JSBSim

2011-07-11 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 Note that the JSBSim environment model is in the middle of a major
 overhaul so I wouldn't make too much of it at this point. It would be
 more interesting to see how it compares after the rewrite.
 
 Erik

The architecture is, but it should not affect the environment modeling.
Also, the new code should not be in FlightGear, yet.

The turbulence model is an implementation of a widely respected military
turbulence model. It should be pretty good. My guess is that the commanding
of it from the FlightGear side needs tweaking.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim new atmosphere

2011-06-23 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 The way I understand this, the issues are to some degree separate (?).
 
 I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that what Jon is largely talking about
 is the altitude extrapolation of atmosphere conditions, i.e. given that I
 specify pressure, temperature and dew point at sea level, how will these
 change as a function of altitude. Within some reasonable set of
 assumptions, you can compute these by solving physics equations.
 
 What the weather system does is specify these values *at sea level* as a
 function of (lat, lon) - the altitude interpolation is still done by the
 built-in Flightgear atmosphere model, and as far as I know it'd be no
 problem to use the JSBSim atmosphere for that purpose instead. As far as
 the properties in /environment/ are concerned (I assume they're used by
 the FDM...), one'd probably just switch from one function calculating
 the altitude dependence of pressure from the sea level value to a
different
 one.

 Cheers,

 * Thorsten

Yes, Thorsten understands what I am asking. :-) 

In the new JSBSim standard atmosphere model - which is based on the
information and algorithms in the U.S. Standard Atmosphere 1976 (USSA
Document: NASA TM-X-74335) the atmospheric properties are propagated
upwards to 86 kilometers in altitude based on temperature and pressure
conditions at sea level or at altitude (in the case of temperature). If the
default standard pressure and temperature are assumed, what results is the
U.S. Standard Atmosphere. However, sea level temperature or pressure can be
specified (in one of several units), and then the entire set of key
atmospheric properties is recomputed for the entire altitude range.
Additionally, not only can a simple temperature bias at sea level be
specified, but an additional temperature gradient can be applied, allowing
one to alter the standard lapse rates. This latter feature is an
experimental one.

Another feature I'd like to add at some point is one where some patchiness
affects the atmospheric properties, so they are not 100% homogenous at an
altitude and over time - sort of like adding some noise. I'm looking at the
NASA Global Reference Atmosphere Model to gain some insight on how they do
it.

As part of this effort on the JSBSim side, the FGAtmosphere class has been
modified as a standard interface for other atmosphere models which may
follow.

So, currently in JSBSim as it exists in our cvs repository, the temperature,
pressure, density, viscosity, speed of sound, etc. are provided by the
JSBSim atmosphere model. No other sources are used internally for those
parameters, no matter what FlightGear does. The interface between FlightGear
and JSBSim does (or will, when it is finished) modify the sea level
temperature and pressure - although there is some facility for permitting
conditions to be specified at an elevation (or altitude), which JSBSim then
would transform into sea level conditions, and propagate properties for
the rest of the altitude profile algorithmically. What is possible, but
highly discouraged, is to permit FlightGear to specify a temperature and
pressure at every timestep. A sea level temperature and pressure should be
specified only at initialization or periodically as one moves geographically
to a new area where weather is changed. Perhaps changing sea level
conditions once every five or ten seconds would be often enough?

Another thing that the new JSBSim standard atmosphere model does is to allow
properties to be queried for a specified altitude, not just the altitude one
is at.

I guessed that on the FlightGear side there was a capability to express sea
level (or ground level) conditions, and that atmospheric properties were
determined from those. It would be good, however, to make sure that
FlightGear and JSBSim are using very similar models. One thing that JSBSim
does not ]yet] do is to model effects of water vapor in the air. According
to the USSA reference document, water vapor plays a relatively minor role in
atmospheric pressure and density calculations. The approach used in the
reference document is to slightly alter the temperature used in calculating
pressure and density, depending on the level of humidity present, IIRC. I'd
be interested to see your calculations for air pressure when humidity is
specified.

Jon






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[Flightgear-devel] JSBSim new atmosphere

2011-06-22 Thread Jon S. Berndt
I'm working on modifying the interface between JSBSim and FlightGear to work
with the new JSBSim standard atmosphere model. There are two or three ways
that the atmosphere model can be modified by the calling application:

A temperature bias can be added to the entire temperature profile (from sea
level to high altitude) by using the SetTemperature() method:

SetTemperatureSL(double t, eTemperature unit=eFahrenheit)

Or

SetTemperature(double t, double h, eTemperature unit=eFahrenheit)

Units supported are eFahrenheit, eCelsius, eRankine, eKelvin. Using one of
these will cause a bias to be calculated and used to modify the temperature
profile. Setting the temperature will cause the pressure calculations to be
re-run.

A pressure can also be set using this methods:

SetPressureSL(double pressure, ePressure unit=ePSF)

Currently, only the sea level pressure can be modified. The available units
are: ePSF, eMillibars, ePascals, eInchesHg.

I may provide a way to set the pressure at an elevation. 

Neither pressure altitude nor density altitude are currently being
calculated in the new standard atmosphere model - those will be added at
some point.

I should also add that with the new standard atmosphere model there is
another way to modify the standard atmosphere temperature profile, but that
would be done using properties and not through a standardized atmosphere API
call.

For more information, see the JSBSim API documentation at
www.jsbsim.org/JSBSim/. The documentation has not been updated with the very
latest, but it is still very current.

Finally, note that the new standard atmosphere model has not quite yet been
integrated with FlightGear, but that should be possible in just a few days.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim new atmosphere

2011-06-22 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Torsten, 

Eventually, there will be a null atmosphere model that will allow flightgear to 
completely control the temperature pressure and density. There will also be 
several other atmosphere models available in future versions of JSBSim. I'd 
strongly recommend using the JSBSim atmosphere when flying JSBSim aircraft 
models. If there is an additional capability needed, we can probably add that, 
but I have to ask why fg would not use the JSBSim atmosphere model?

Also, I don't recommend including this new model in the new flightgear release 
thats coming up.

Jon


Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on ATT

Torsten Dreyer tors...@t3r.de wrote:

 I'm working on modifying the interface between JSBSim and FlightGear to
 work with the new JSBSim standard atmosphere model. There are two or three
 ways that the atmosphere model can be modified by the calling application:
Hi Jon,

since FlightGear has it's own atmosphere model, how will this cooperate with 
the new JSBSim's atmosphere model? What we should try to avoid is to have two 
competing models, one for the FDM and one for the other systems. Specially, 
the altimetry springs to my mind, which caused some trouble in the past.


 Finally, note that the new standard atmosphere model has not quite yet been
 integrated with FlightGear, but that should be possible in just a few days.
May I ask to extend these few days until we created the release branch on 
July, 17th? I'd really like to give your new model a try, but prefer to have 
enough time for testing.

Torsten

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[Flightgear-devel] JSBSim Functions for Propwash and Downwash [was: Clarification on YASim input]

2011-06-19 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Hal,

Oops! Sorry I attributed code to you that came from somewhere else. :-) I
now seem to recall experimenting with your model at that time - actually
replacing the older one in JSBSim cvs with yours, then adding the estimated
propwash effects.

Hal wrote: 

These were never in any of the code I worked with and were
removed before I started working on the FDM. My current Cmde function looks
like this:

function name=aero/coefficient/Cmde
  description Pitch_moment_due_to_elevator /description
  product
property aero/qbar-psf /property
property metrics/Sw-sqft /property
property metrics/cbarw-ft /property
property fcs/elevator-pos-rad /property
table
  independentVar velocities/mach /independentVar
  tableData
0.  -0.9
0.66-0.6
0.74-0.4 
1.  -0.05
  /tableData
/table
  /product
/function

This is using the qbar-psf which is not influenced by prop
wash. The Cmde function Jon has above has a lookup table that goes from MACH
0 to MACH 2 in a linear fashion. This looks like something intended for a
supersonic aircraft and is not what I would expect from a subsonic aircraft.
The table I am using goes from MACH 0 to MACH 1 and has a strong inflection
at MACH 0.74 which is unlike the one in Jon's function since it is
non-linear.

Yes, the above mach effects table looks better. I can't remember where that
came from.

...

Jon thanks for the above code. I will look into integrating
this into the current P-51D. Also shouldn't the same sort of thing happen
with the rudder?

Yes - in fact, in the version I have in JSBSim cvs, the modified qbar is
used for: CLde, Cldr, Cmde, and Cndr. I haven't tested any of these for
validity, though.

And Jon do you have any ideas on how to go about writing a
function to implement downwash pitch moment affects?

Yes, that's another thing that could be done. I've thought about that
sometimes, too. When the wing is generating lift, the airflow is being
deflected downward behind the wing, and so the alpha that the tail sees is
affected, since the normal airflow has been given an additional component in
the body Z direction (downward from the pilot perspective). Also, if there
is an appreciable pitch rate, the alpha at the tail is affected. Finally, if
the propeller is producing thrust, then there is that affect, too. So, how
do we calculate the alpha at the horizontal tail? 

I'm making this up right here as we go, but here are my thoughts. First,
calculate the wind velocity that the H. tail sees:

U_adjusted = U + U_prop

Next, the Z axis velocity that the H. tail sees:

W_adjusted = W + q*ht_arm - i_wing

Where W is the aircraft Z axis wind velocity at the CG, q is the pitch rate,
ht_arm is the distance from the CG to the horizontal tail, and i_wing is the
induced velocity produced by the wing. At zero lift i_wing would be zero,
and at lift=weight (such as at cruise) the i_wing value would be some value
- and it might not be trivial to calculate what that would be, though you
might be able to estimate it to produce a plausible qualitative effect.
There is a NASA paper that might be helpful in calculating this: The
Calculation of the Induced Velocity Field of a Wing. It is the translation
of a technical paper by Klaus Gersten. It is NASA Technical Translation TT
F-12, 436, and you can download it at this URL:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19690023298_1969023298.
pdf.

Anyhow, then, of course, the calculation is just this:

alpha_tail = atan2(W_adjusted, U_adjusted)

Maybe I've gone wrong somewhere here, but something similar might work.
Also, in situations like a flat spin or tail slide this probably falls
apart!

Jon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSIm, aeromatic, crosswind taxiiing, et cetera

2011-06-19 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 From: John Denker [mailto:j...@av8n.com]
 
 On 06/19/2011 06:46 AM, Jon S. Berndt wrote:
 
  Maybe I've gone wrong somewhere here, but something similar might
 work.
  Also, in situations like a flat spin or tail slide this probably
 falls
  apart!
 
 Let's postpone discussion of exotic flight conditions such as flat
 spins and tail slides.

John,

I agree, but the comment I made was more of a disclaimer than anything.

 The value of these features can hardly be exaggerated.  For example,
 according to page 4-3 of the POH the maximum demonstrated crosswind
 for a C-172 is 15 knots.  It is important for pilots to know what
 happens if they use soft-field takeoff procedure with a 15-knot
 crosswind.  We do not want them to discover this the hard way, in a
 real airplane.  It would be extremely valuable to have a simulator
 that faithfully models the real behavior.
 
 Et cetera.  For more perspective and motivation, see appendix below.
 
 Returning to the technical issues:  AFAICT the most fundamental issues
 are not JSBSim issues strictly speaking, but rather aeromatic issues.

I agree, again. One problem with having a tool such as Aeromatic is that
some people use it to generate the template and then don't modify it.
Ideally, Aeromatic would be modified to produce better output in these
circumstances. I might look into that at some point, but I'll need to find a
26 hour day lying around somewhere... ;-)

 Another constructive suggestion:  While we are reorganizing the
 aircraft.xml file, we should get rid of the notion of lift due to
 alpha et cetera.  I suggest a more faithful model would work with
 things like force due to wing and force due to elevator.  As a
 first step, compatible with the existing approach, we can treat the
 wing as a whole.  Then, later, as a second step we can model the
 wing in four parts:  port outboard (with aileron), port inboard (with
 flap), starboard inboard (with flap), and starboard outboard (with
 aileron).  This is AFAICT the only reasonable way to model the effect
 of flaps near the stall, the effect of flaps in inverted flight, the
 loss of aileron authority near the stall, et cetera.  It is also the
 only reasonable way AFAICT to model swept wings.

There is soon going to be a donation of JSBSim code mods that *may* be
useful in implementing this approach. Stay tuned.

 I would be happy to discuss the details with anybody who wants to
 contribute in this area.

If you do a writeup for this, it would be helpful.

Jon




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Clarification on YASIM input (actionpt)

2011-06-18 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 From: syd adams [mailto:adams@gmail.com]
 
 Does jsbsim ? I've just begun to look into it , so I don't really know
 jsbsim's capabilities.

It's not automatic - not a natural effect calculated by JSBSim code itself.
Like many things in JSBSim, the facilities are present to let the aircraft
flight model developer add these kinds of things. The contributions from the
tail, (such as moment due to elevator, lift due to elevator) are functions
of alpha and qbar. Both alpha and qbar are affected by propwash, since
propwash speeds up the airflow immediately behind it if it is producing
thrust. When defining lift or moment contributions from the elevator, the
alpha and qbar that are parts of that definition can be modified by a
function that includes the effects of propwash. So, it's very configurable.
You could even include the effects of beta (sideslip) so the effects are
blended out if beta is too high.

Here's an example from Hal's P-51D Mustang. This is from an old version, so
it may have changed by now, but it illustrates the approach. In the
aerodynamics section of the config file - but outside of any axis
element - is this definition of qbar due to propwash:

[Note: v is shorthand for value, and p is shorthand for property.]

function name=aero/thrust-qbar_psf
  product
v 0.5 /v
p atmosphere/rho-slugs_ft3 /p
pow
  sum
p velocities/u-aero-fps /p
product
  p propulsion/engine/prop-induced-velocity_fps /p
  v 2.0 /v
/product
  /sum
  v 2.0 /v
/pow
  /product
/function

Later, within the pitch axis definition, is this definition:

function name=aero/coefficient/Cmde
  descriptionPitch_moment_due_to_elevator/description
  product
propertyaero/thrust-qbar_psf/property
propertymetrics/Sw-sqft/property
propertymetrics/cbarw-ft/property
propertyfcs/elevator-pos-rad/property
table
  independentVarvelocities/mach/independentVar
  tableData
0.-0.8
2.-0.200
  /tableData
/table
  /product
/function

[Note that while this function definition is named aero/coefficient/Cmde
it is not really a coefficient, but an actual moment in units of foot
pounds. The coefficient part of the name is a holdout from years past.]

In the second code snippet you can see the aero/thrust-qbar_psf property
used.

I hope this helps a bit.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Could We Sync JSBSim for 2.3.0, Please?

2011-06-16 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 Does the new atmosphere code work well with FlightGear's atmosphere?
 I remember we had some issues when fg and jsbsim were fighting for the
 correct weather values.
 
 But you are right - there are some nice new features we should have in
 2.4.0. There will be four weeks starting tomorrow (feature-freeze)
 before we branch for the release. Plenty of time to fix what might be
 broken.
 
 I think Erik is our sync-master?
 
 Torsten

I am very close to committing the new atmosphere code (and the new FGWinds)
to JSBSim cvs. However, it would be prudent to first get a glitch or two
fixed and then grab that code and put that in FlightGear first, just in case
the newer atmosphere and winds code causes problems.

Jon



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[Flightgear-devel] Atmosphere heads-up

2011-06-10 Thread Jon S. Berndt
There is a change coming to the JSBSim modeled atmosphere. A new standard
atmosphere class is being completed that models the U.S. Standard Atmosphere
(1972) all the way up to 1000 km. FlightGear interacts with the FDM
atmosphere in a predictable way, since the user may want to set conditions.
Currently, this is the code that permits the controlling application
(FlightGear) to control the atmosphere:

If the property /environment/params/control-fdm-atmosphere is set to true,
then the JSBSim atmosphere model is set to UseExternal and the Temp, Press,
and Density are set:

Atmosphere-UseExternal();
Atmosphere-UseExternal();
Atmosphere-SetExTemperature(
Atmosphere-SetExPressure(pressure-getDoubleValue()*70.726566);
Atmosphere-SetExDensity(density-getDoubleValue());

Otherwise, UseInternal is set.

Atmosphere-UseInternal();

Each pass through the copyToJSBSim function is called, these parameters are
set:

Atmosphere-SetExTemperature(
Atmosphere-SetExPressure(pressure-getDoubleValue()*70.726566);
Atmosphere-SetExDensity(density-getDoubleValue());

These have no effect if UseInternal is set.

That was the old way. None of these API methods are present in the new
model. The new way isn't here yet, but will be after the upcoming release of
FlightGear. As reported on the JSBSim developer mailing list, 


I have submitted new updates to Codestriker for the new standard atmosphere
model if anyone wants to have another look at how it is shaping up:

https://sourceforge.net/apps/codestriker/jsbsim/codestriker.pl?action=list_t
opicssstate=0 

The documentation is shaping up at the same time here:

http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.htm
l


In the new version of the standard atmosphere model, external applications
such as FlightGear will be able to control the atmosphere by setting sea
level conditions, or at-altitude conditions using any of these API calls
(see the documentation at the second link, above, for more information on
these):

void SetSLTemperature
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml (double t, eTemperature
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml  unit=eFahrenheit);
void SetTemperature
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml (double t, double h, eTemperature
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml  unit=eFahrenheit) {};
void SetTemperatureBias
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml (double t, eTemperature
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml  unit=eFahrenheit);
void SetSLTemperatureGradedDelta
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml (double t, eTemperature
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml  unit=eFahrenheit);
void SetTemperatureGradedDelta
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml (double t, double h, eTemperature
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml  unit=eFahrenheit);

void SetSeaLevelPressure
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml (double pressure, ePressure
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSim/classJSBSim_1_1FGStandardAtmosphere.ht
ml  unit=ePSF);

Several units are available for the setters - both metric and English. The
density is calculated from the temperature and pressure, so it is not
specified. The point of this is that the temperature - and the temperature
profile - are controllable by the calling application. The sea level
pressure can be set by the calling application. I will be adding the ability
to set the pressure at a particular altitude/elevation, but that's not ready
yet. These two items should allow a great deal of control over the
atmosphere, with the atmosphere remaining internally consistent.

The winds modeling have been moved to another class, FGWinds. Additional
wind effects are hoped to be modeled, such as downbursts, 1 minus cosine
gusts, etc.

Additionally, I am considering the modeling of temperature and pressure
turbulence, as well - slight fluctuations of those parameters based on
temporal and spatial conditions.

Comments?

Jon


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[Flightgear-devel] Atmosphere

2011-05-17 Thread Jon S. Berndt
What is the requirement from the FlightGear side for an atmosphere model?
I'd like to remove the capability to drive the JSBSim standard atmosphere
model from FlightGear, but first I'd like to get a clear picture of how
FlightGear users interact with the atmosphere, if at all.

Comments?

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Atmosphere

2011-05-17 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 What is the requirement from the FlightGear side for an atmosphere
 model?
 I'd like to remove the capability to drive the JSBSim standard
 atmosphere
 model from FlightGear, but first I'd like to get a clear picture of how
 FlightGear users interact with the atmosphere, if at all.
 
 Comments?
 
 Jon

In other words, this property:

/environment/params/control-fdm-atmosphere

Will then be deprecated and have no effect.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim turbulence models: revealing an almost hidden gem

2011-05-08 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Credit the new JSBSim milspec/tustin turbulence model to some great work by 
Andreas Gaeb last September. 

Jon


Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on ATT

Torsten Dreyer tors...@t3r.de wrote:

 Great! Thank you! I really like the turbulence model of JSBSim- feels much
 more realistic than the one from YASim.
All the credit for the model goes to the excellent JSBSim devs. I just built 
the bridge that linked it into FG.

Torsten

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Vostok-1

2011-04-25 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Good description by Durk.

 

If you want to know more about ascent guidance and control, this is an
interesting and more basic look at that:

 

http://www.aero.org/publications/crosslink/winter2004/06.html

 

And this,

 

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2doc=GetTRDoc.pdfAD=AD0643
209 doc=GetTRDoc.pdfAD=AD0643209

 

Derivation of Linear Tangent Steering Laws.

 

Jon

 

 

 

From: Durk Talsma [mailto:durkt...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 10:17 AM
To: FlightGear developers discussions
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Vostok-1

 

Hi Curt,

 

As far as I know, some of the early rocket models either had secondary
attitude thrusters or deflector plates placed inside the main rocket
exhaust. Modern types (i.e. anything from the 1950s onward) have used
gimbaling main engines. If you watch prelaunch space shuttle footage, you
can usually see the 3 SSMEs do a full motion cycle just before ignition.
Additionally, some rockets, including the Saturn 5 first stage, used
airfoils for improved stability.  Also, the more sophisticated engines can
throttle. IIRC, the Space Shuttle can throttle between  approx 65% and 104%
of its rated thrust. Typically it throttles back to 65 during a period of
max dynamic pressure, just around the time of solid booster separation. At
this time, it's already picked up quite a bit of velocity, but is still
going through a relatively thick atmosphere. 

 

Interestingly, another challenge is to restart a rocket engine in orbit,
because the liquid fuels are just floating around. The Saturn 5 third stage,
needing to reignite for lunar trajectory insertion, had a separate set of
solid fuel engines, which only served the purpose of pushing the fuels down
in order to enable a restart. Rather fascinating if you think about what
kind of extraordinary challenges space poses for things we take for
granted

 

Cheers,

Durk 

 

On 18 Apr 2011, at 16:41, Curtis Olson wrote:





I've never looked into it, but I've always wondered how (or how much)
control they have over those giant rockets.  I know the space shuttle flies
a very precise profile and rolls over at a particular point, so they must
have some good control.  But I have never thought about how that control is
implemented.  Do they have secondary thrusters?  Can they vector or deflect
their thrust?  Can they throttle?  I know that some smaller rockets will
spin along their longitudinal axis to help average out any built in
imbalances and keep a stable course (probably the same idea as a rifle
bullet.)

 

Curt.

 

On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net wrote:

On Mon, 18 Apr 2011 06:31:09 -0700 (PDT), Gene wrote in message
alpine.lfd.2.00.1104180630330.13...@grumble.deltasoft.com:


 On Mon, 18 Apr 2011, AJ MacLeod wrote:

  On Sun, 17 Apr 2011 00:39:52 +0200
  Torsten Dreyer wrote:
 
  156MB!? Isn't that a bit - huge?
 
  Maybe... but it looks like a fantastic model.  If only I had the
  time to actually work out how to fly it :-)  Really impressive work
  though.

 Fly it?  I thought you just lit a match and then did your best to
 hang on until the big noisy thing at the other end runs out of gas. :)

 g.


..fly it, means control it well enough to do
e.g. touch-n-go's at will, not by accident. ;o)

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...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
 Scenarios always come in sets of three:
 best case, worst case, and just in case.



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Vostok-1

2011-04-18 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Take a look at the J246 model in the JSBSim distribution or in our CVS
browser. That's a hypothetical heavy launch vehicle flight model that is
under (slow) development.

Jon


 -Original Message-
 From: AJ MacLeod [mailto:aj-li...@adeptopensource.co.uk]
 Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 6:24 AM
 To: FlightGear developers discussions
 Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Vostok-1
 
 On Sun, 17 Apr 2011 00:39:52 +0200
 Torsten Dreyer wrote:
 
  156MB!? Isn't that a bit - huge?
 
 Maybe... but it looks like a fantastic model.  If only I had the time
 to actually work out how to fly it :-)  Really impressive work though.
 --
 
 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Vostok-1

2011-04-17 Thread Jon S. Berndt
I thought I was going to post the first rocket but it looks like you beat me to 
it! :-)

Cool! 

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Vostok-1

2011-04-17 Thread Jon S. Berndt
What perfect timing for this model too, given the recent 50th anniversary of 
Yuri Gagarin's first human spaceflight.

Jon

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[Flightgear-devel] Building FlightGear with MSVC++ 10.0

2011-04-11 Thread Jon S. Berndt
I didn't find a project file for building FlightGear with MSVC++ Express
2010. Is there one yet?

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improving the elevator modeling

2011-03-31 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Forwarded to the JSBSim-devel list.

 

Jon

 

 

 

 

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 11:05 AM, cas...@mminternet.com wrote:

 Hi,

...

 The only parts lacking in the JSBSim as best as I can determine are some
 numbers to define the elevator aero coefficents, hinge moments as a
 function of tail alpha and deflection, and changes in the aspect ratio
 of the wing as a function of flap deflections that will be used to
 calculate the downwash for a specific wing configuration and flight
 condition

 Any comments??

 John

 John,

 You might try posting this on the JSBSim developer list. I know that
 Agostino De Marco has done some modeling of hinge moments using JSBSim. I
 seem to recall that he wrote an AIAA paper that included hinge moment
 modeling, etc.




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Calculating free stick position and forces

2011-03-31 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 
  Perhaps downwash and hinge force calculations should be the subject of a
  section in the xml aerodynamics file so that they can be tailored on a
  per-aircraft basis.
 
  Alan
 
 the xml files should be used to load the respective aircraft data for aero
 coefficients, tail geometry, and metrics.  For speed and efficiency the
 actual calculations should reside in the JSBSim code
 
 John

Actually, Alan is correct, as Ron also mentioned in the JSBSim-devel list,
where this topic is cross-posted. I think it is quite possible that we can
already do this using function definitions in the aerodynamics section
of an aircraft spec. file. There is no perceptible performance hit to using
function definitions. The functions are implemented in C++, are fairly
efficient, and calculations are cached per-frame. I'd prefer not to see
possibly type-specific hard-coded calculations going into the codebase - I
think we can implement this in the current codebase using existing
capabilities.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improving the elevator modeling

2011-03-30 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 Hi,

...
 
 The only parts lacking in the JSBSim as best as I can determine are some
 numbers to define the elevator aero coefficents, hinge moments as a
 function of tail alpha and deflection, and changes in the aspect ratio
 of the wing as a function of flap deflections that will be used to
 calculate the downwash for a specific wing configuration and flight
condition
 
 Any comments??
 
 John

John,

You might try posting this on the JSBSim developer list. I know that
Agostino De Marco has done some modeling of hinge moments using JSBSim. I
seem to recall that he wrote an AIAA paper that included hinge moment
modeling, etc.

Downwash can probably be calculated as a function (perhaps as a function of
lift force generated), and a local alpha for the elevator can be
calculated that accounts for the downwash angle.

Jon



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[Flightgear-devel] Quiet

2011-03-15 Thread Jon S. Berndt
It's been quiet here.



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Logos and licensing

2011-03-04 Thread Jon S. Berndt
I suspect that msfs and xplane have licensing agreements with trademark 
holders. It would of course be good to know this!

Jon


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Vivian Meazza vivian.mea...@lineone.net wrote:

Chris

 On Thu, 2011-03-03 at 09:43 +, Vivian Meazza wrote:
  I'm going to set you all a simple multiple choice test - pay attention
  because I'm only going to say this once:
 
 Okay, now it's my turn.  Please answer the following:
 
 1.  Is there a difference between a trademark and a copyright?
 
 A.  Yes
 B.  No
 C.  It doesn't matter because we should be able to ignore either of them
 and include well-known logos on aircraft liveries if we want.

A. There is a very great difference, at least in the UK. In turns out that
Trademark protection is really quite limited. For example, the Cessna
trademark (word and logo) is registered only in Class 12. We would be able
to use Cessna in Class 9. Just like Polo (a sweet) and Polo (a car). 

Copyright of the logo - different question. Well known or not doesn't
change the equation.

Interestingly, Red Bull was once refused an injunction in the US against a
fizzy drinks company marketing a drink called Bullshit.

http://www.lawdit.co.uk/reading_room/room/view_article.asp?name=../articles/
Red Bull Trade Mark is Bullshit.htm

Which made me smile (yes, I'm easily amused) and perhaps sums up Red Bull's
corporate behavior pretty well IMO.

 2.  Another flight simulator (X-Plane, MSFS, whatever) includes
 trademarks in their liveries.  Therefore...
 
 A.  It must be okay to do this because *they* do it.
 B.  Even if it's not okay, we can do it because *they* do it.
 C.  It really doesn't matter what they do.  What matters is what *we*
 do.

A and B. Precedent is important. If Company A does not pursue Company B for
unlicenced use of their trademark or copyright then it is reasonable to
assume:

   a. Company A doesn't care about such unlicenced use, or indeed might
see it as free advertising
Or b. Company B is not, in fact, infringing that trademark (see Cessna
above) 

If we are in exactly the same business or class as Company B and we are sure
that the use is in fact unlicensed, it is also reasonable to assume that we
will get the same treatment. 

 3.  Scenario:  It's against the law to drive 60 mph (100 kph) in a 30
 mph (50 kph) zone.  I drive 60 mph in a 30 mph zone but I always:  (a)
 make sure there are no police around, and (b) don't ask the police if I
 can do this.  Which of the following statements is true?
 
 A.  It's only wrong to drive 60 mph in a 30 mph zone if you hit
 something or run over somebody.
 B.  Because I didn't ask permission (and so I couldn't be told I
 couldn't do it) and because no police are around, it is now okay to
 drive 60 mph in a 30 mph zone.
 C.  No matter what, it's wrong to drive 60 mph in a 30 mph zone.

D. It is however tacitly accepted that it is OK to drive at an _indicted_ 79
mph on UK motorways (the unwritten 10% + 2 rule). Same as the answer above.

 3.  Scenario:  The FlightGear Project decides they will only distribute
 aircraft with liveries containing trademark icons if the trademark owner
 grants permission.  This means there are very few liveries containing
 trademarks in the distribution package.  However, anyone wanting to have
 liveries with trademarks can easily obtain them by Googling flightgear
 liveries and then going to a multitude of independent sites that have
 livery repositories.  Which of the following statements is true?
 
 A.  That will spell the end of the FlightGear Project
 B.  That would work
 

So we would have to ask our users to add dodgy liveries to our AI aircraft?
If they are classed as FlightGear Liveries, and we take no steps to object
to other websites use of our name/logo, could we not also be guilty of a
infringement of the law by association? I don't know, I haven't researched
it, but shoveling a problem around is not solving it.  It would certainly
lead to fragmentation of the project, but I think that's already happening
to a certain extent. Not really a good idea. 

Personally, I don't care if I never see another airliner in FG, but there
are others who do.

Hmm, all thought provoking, and stimulated more research,

Thanks, Chris

Vivian







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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Logos and licensing

2011-03-03 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 I'm going to set you all a simple multiple choice test - pay attention
 because I'm only going to say this once:
 
 7. Do I have to ask permission of the motor manufacturer, the
 professional
 photographer, or you to make or to publish my work on the internet?
 
 A. No
 B. Yes
 
 8. I got there first. Does the professional photographer have to ask my
 permission, or the motor manufacturer or you to publish his work?
 
 A. No
 B. Yes
 
 Right. Hands up anyone who answered anything but straight As. Oh dear -
 in
 Germany apparently I must seek permission from the motor manufacturer.
 I
 expect BMW are very busy handling all the requests. That's probably why
 they
 can't fix mine ... but that's another saga.

When photographing *people*, if you plan to publish *and profit from* your
photographs, then you may need a model release form. I've been involved
several times in group events where photographers would not profit from the
photographs they took, but got people to sign release forms anyhow out of
courtesy, at least (see, for instance,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_release, which expresses the same
sentiments I have seen at professional photographer periodical web sites). 

This is interesting, but I don't know if it offers any assistance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Logos and licensing

2011-02-26 Thread Jon S. Berndt
I think that a key with all this is that none of the models will be sold for 
profit. You could argue that even if the models are on a cd that is sold for 
profit since they are also available freely that the models are not the source 
of the profit.

Jon


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Heiko Schulz aeitsch...@yahoo.de wrote:

Hi,


 * Heiko Schulz aeitsch...@yahoo.de:
  I will write some Emails to some copyright-holders
 this weekend
  like Lufthansa, ADAC,... I'm curious to see how they
 react, but
  I also fear a bit the answers and consequences.
 
 Severe tactical error a.k.a. shooting yourself in the
 foot.
 
 What if they (or some of them) are well aware of our use,
 but they just
 decided not to care, pretending not to know officially,
 because
 it's a small, harmless, not-for-profit sim. But once you
 officially
 asked, they can no longer pretend. And the answer will be
 *no* in
 most cases. Then the silent gentlemen agreement is voided.
 By us!
 And now they *have* to take measures to protect their
 brand.
 
 They might think: You idiots! Why did you have to ask?!
 
 It's like asking a policeman if you may cross the street at
 red
 traffic light. He might have ignored you doing it. But he
 sure
 can't say go ahead, nor can he then tolerate you ignoring
 his
 order.
 
 m.


I thought about that, but hoped no one will raise this up
The question is still: how to proceed?

One of my liveries uses like Jack a copyrighted logo (taken from an own phto) 
and may not be used without permission. 
--
http://www.adac.de/impressum/default.aspx?ComponentId=6019SourcePageId=6729#ank6019-5

On the other side: there are many hundreds liveries with this Logo out there 
available. 

Feeling a bit helpless




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Logos and licensing

2011-02-26 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Staying beneath the radar might be effective but do you feel good about it? 
Is it the ethical thing to do? Unethical? Hoping that ignorance is bliss? 
Trying to ignore a perceived problem and wishing it would go away because it is 
too hard to do things the right way? 

OTOH even if a company feels that a violation is taking place they would surely 
make a friendly request first.

Jon

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Gary Neely grne...@gmail.com wrote:

I agree with Melchior. In the most situations they will be obliged to
say no. It's the easiest, safest, most proven course for them.

It seems rare that someone in our community is approached by a
copyright-holder and told to remove some objectionable element. Even
if it does happen, it's likely that someone will get a letter from a
law firm saying Take-XYZ-down-or-else. You shrug, comply, and move
on.

There's a saying in English about bearding the lion in his den. It's
probably better to stay beneath the lion's radar.

-Gary

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Logos and licensing

2011-02-26 Thread Jon S. Berndt
From: Curtis Olson [mailto:curtol...@gmail.com] 

Jon: I respect your position, but I humbly ask then that you
please post or send me your letters for usage permission from Boeing,
Airbus, Douglas, Lockheed, Aérospatiale, BAC, deHavilland, McDonnell,
Cessna, Fokker, (New) Piper, etc. etc.  all of which (and more) you have
modeled in JSBSim and distribute on the official JSBSim web site.

Best regards,

Curt.


Curt,

As you may recall, a few years ago myself and at least one other JSBSim
developer did have an event that caused us to look over our operating
procedures - and I won't go into the details, but suffice it to say that it
was not a pleasant experience, although it turned out OK and in my case I
was apologized to for the inconvenience. I never did figure out the exact
reason why I was contacted and questioned.

As you may also recall I did post the correspondence I received from Boeing
IP personnel here in this thread a couple of weeks ago. It was that response
that lead us to reevaluate our process and to withdraw some aircraft models
from distribution for a while. We then added some disclaimers and statements
in most of them and made sure that our data was traceable to public sources.

We have it much easier than FlightGear does, since the reference to an
aircraft type using the company name (such as Boeing 737) is far
different than the use of a trademark or logo - particularly for a logo. 

I can't tell you guys what to do, but if it was me I would take maybe one of
two approaches:

1)  Make a README file that contains an appropriate disclaimer and
distribute that with each model. I don't know what that disclaimer would
state.
2)  Continue as if nothing had changed, but contact the various
trademark/logo owners and very carefully inform them of the project and ask
them for permission.

In any case, I strongly suspect that the worst that can happen is that if a
company takes issue with the unauthorized use of its IP it will simply ask
that further use be discontinued and that will be the end of it.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Logos and licensing

2011-02-26 Thread Jon S. Berndt
From: Curtis Olson

Hi Jon,

I apologize for being persnickety here, but I am searching
for clarity and consistency on this issue.  

Has the JSBSim project asked permission from all the
aircraft manufacturers that you create and distribute models for?

If not, have you only dealt with Boeing in terms of asking
for and receiving permission?

If you've only received permission from one company, then
why?  I assume it's because they contacted you and forced this issue.  In
any case,  why is it ok to proceed with explicit permission from Boeing, and
at the same time ok to proceed *without* explicit permission from every
other aircraft manufacturer on the planet?

If it's ok for JSBSim to proceed without permission from
most companies, then why suggest that FlightGear should get permission
before we model aircraft from various manufacturers with logos representing
various owners of specific aircraft?

... 


Curt,

Actually, I contacted Boeing myself - and only Boeing. It was for no other
reason than it's the only one (with the exception of the Fokker aircraft)
that mention a company name. [I have no reason to believe that they were in
any way responsible for the complaint that lead to the incident years
ago.] The other aircraft names in the JSBSim CVS repository do not feature
the company name or any other trademark, logo, or other proprietary
material. The type names such as 172, 747, F4N, etc. are not proprietary or
trademarked designations or anything, as far as I can tell. Nevertheless, we
went beyond what was probably necessary and included a disclaimer in many
(perhaps all?) of the aircraft in the JSBSim repository, taking the input
from Boeing and proceeding with an excess of caution.

To be safest we probably ought to rename the Fokker aircraft models as F100
and F50.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Logos and licensing

2011-02-18 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 From: Stuart Buchanan [mailto:*.*.*]
 
 I agree with Jon on this - ideally we should be pro-active about
 asking for permission, even if we don't like the answer.

 ... 
 
 Jon - could you post the disclaimer text you eventually used?
 
 -Stuart


With JSBSim, our situation is a little different, considering that we deal
with data and performance characteristics and not tangible, visual, IP
(logos, etc.). So, this is the disclaimer we ended up using:

This model was created using publicly available data,
publicly available technical reports, textbooks, and guesses. It contains no
proprietary or restricted data. It has been validated only to the extent
that it seems to fly right, and possibly to comply to published, publicly
known, performance data (maximum speed, endurance, etc.). Thus, this model
is meant for educational and entertainment purposes only.

This simulation model is not endorsed by the manufacturer.
This model is not to be sold.

I think that last sentence maybe should have for profit tacked on the end,
and even that might still cause some heartburn within the OSS community. It
might also have a bearing on the Fli*ght Pr* S*m discussion. ;-)

I found Boeing's response to our query to be friendly and reasonable.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Incorrect conversion used for lbs to gallon of fuel

2011-02-12 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 Hi Bertrand,
 
 I am currently working on a more generic solution to the issue based on
 your
 patch. Currently we have at least three different places within
 FlightGear
 calculating tank contents and converting them between different units.
 The idea is to have a TankProperties class encapsulating all property-
 conversions and to have the fdm_shell create instances of the class.
 With
 that, you can write to any of it's properties (level, capacity,
 density) using
 any unit and have all other properties correct. There is no need to
 have this
 in every FDM and also in Nasal.
 I'm curently testing various aircraft on Windows and Linux and I hope
 to get
 this commited later today.
 
 Greetings, Torsten


I've been so busy I missed this one earlier. Maybe I am missing something
here. I certainly agree that doing things in several places (redundantly) is
a bad idea. But I wonder if the creation of a TankProperties class is
needed, or rather if there is some deficiency in the way tanks are handled
in the FDMs at this time? In JSBSim (and I assume in YASim) the JSBSim API
provides sufficient insight into the tank state. Certain properties are
also available.

I know that the tank-related properties are probably not referred to the
same way on the FlightGear side and on the JSBSim (and other FDM) side. Is
that what your TankProperties class is supposed to coordinate? Would it be
better to use the API rather than properties, if that is the case?

This also leads to an interesting situation which has probably been
discussed before, but which I don't recall. The existing tanks in any
vehicle model may be filled as specified by the modeler (hopefully the fuel
tanks are filled up). That is very important for when running JSBSim in a
standalone mode. Of course FlightGear can and should allow filling of the
tanks to any degree desired, so the TankContents value in the JSBSim
aircraft config file is irrelevant for FlightGear - although it might allow
for a default fill level if desired. But the location, capacity, and other
values should be respected, as I assume they are.

Jon




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sinking feeling - c172 on gravel runway

2011-02-11 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 I think ya'll just need to hang this one up and let it alone.
 
 g.

I know. What a love-fest, eh? ;-)

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSIM Aircraft Crash at Reset

2011-02-06 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Bertrand,

Is this patch supposed to be applied to JSBSim as it currently exists in
JSBSim CVS, or applied against the patch that Thorsten mentions?

Jon


 -Original Message-
 From: Bertrand Coconnier [mailto:bcoco...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 6:09 AM
 To: FlightGear developers discussions
 Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSIM Aircraft Crash at Reset
 
 2011/2/5 ThorstenB bre...@gmail.com:
  On 05.02.2011 16:21, ThorstenB wrote:
 
  I'm currently testing a different patch for the same issue: instead
  of untieing all properties below the /fdm/jsbsim (only), I added a
  list to JSBSim's FGPropertyManagager, so it keeps track of all the
  properties it has actually bound. It can then use this list to untie
  all its properties - no matter where these are located in the
  property tree.
 
 
  New patch pushed to flightgear/next:
 
 http://www.gitorious.org/fg/flightgear/commit/ad8d46ba648263630b8777c5
  3f852b75cad7ecdd
 
  This will be overwritten by the next JSBSim update, however it's a
  short-term fix and candidate for our pending 2.2 release.
  So, please test if you still see reset issues with JSBSim aircraft.
 If
  we find it's an improvement (maybe/hopefully the final fix for this
  issue), then we'll be pushing this to the 2.2 branch also. But
  remember, none of the reset fixes is part of the 2.2 branch just yet.
 
  The long term fix needs to be part of the JSBSim repository of
 course.
  Jon, Erik: please check if you want to use this patch or have some
  other solution to the problem.
 
 
 Hi Thorsten,
 
 Good catch ! I had a quick look at your patch and have a couple of
 comments on it :
 
 * Some templates of the Tie() method are located in FGPropertyManager.h
 and have been overlooked in your patch (this is quite important because
 it leaves a hole in the bottom of which some bugs may have stayed
 hidden)
 * I would only add the successfully tied properties to the
 tied_properties list. In your patch the name of the properties are
 unconditionally added to the list. I don't think that does any harm but
 the code now looks cleaner to me.
 * The method FGFDMExec::checkTied() is now redundant with
 FGPropertyManager::Unbind() so the former has been removed in favour of
 the latter (this one is rather internal JSBSim stuff, I have included
 it for the sake of completeness).
 * I would rather make tied_properties a list of SGPropertyNode* rather
 than a list of strings (same as above : internal JSBSim stuff)
 * Traditionally, method names in JSBSim have the first letter of their
 name capitalized (very very minor this one !)
 
 Attached patch includes all the above suggestions. The patch has been
 made against the last revision of the 'next' branch of git.
 
 Wow ! This issue is really hard to fix. However it exemplifies the Open
 Source model superiority in allowing such a team work to fix quite a
 reluctant and annoying bug.
 
 Cheers,
 
 Bertrand.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSIM Aircraft Crash at Reset

2011-02-06 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 2011/2/6 Jon S. Berndt jonsber...@comcast.net:
  Bertrand,
 
  Is this patch supposed to be applied to JSBSim as it currently exists
 in
  JSBSim CVS, or applied against the patch that Thorsten mentions?
 


BTW, this patch won't apply automatically due to path issues. I am required
to enter specific path names to the file. Any ideas how to fix that?

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSIM Aircraft Crash at Reset

2011-02-06 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 On Sun, 2011-02-06 at 13:18 +0100, Bertrand Coconnier wrote:
  Hi Jon,
 
  You may already know that but the current behaviour of Flight Gear
  reset process is coded at a higher level than JSBSim glue code
  (JSBSim.cxx). The reset process is to unbind - delete - create a new
  instance of the FDM no matter which FDM is used in Flight Gear (check
  FDMShell:reinit() in src/FDM/fdm_shell.cxx). So in order to make
  Flight Gear use the improvements you are mentioning, this will need
  to be a joint effort between Flight Gear, JSBSim and possibly the
  developers of the other FDMs. However this should not prevent this
  improvement to be made on JSBSim side :-)
 
 Actually I think this is good behavior regardless what Jon comes up
 with and I vote to include the patch from Bertrand to JSBSim anyhow.
 
 Erik


I'm incorporating it on my side right now. (I vote with you, Erik! ;-)

We need to address two things here - and maybe they need to be addressed the
same way when integrated within FlightGear (I don't know):

1) Reinitialize at some position and state, with the same aircraft.

- This may not require anything more than setting initial conditions and
reinitializing the aircraft at that position and state without deleting the
entire JSBSim instance. This is preferable for JSBSim standalone, and I
would think it would be preferable anywhere, but in another sense I can see
that nuking the instance and starting from scratch might be appealing. This
is particularly true if our startup process is very fast.

2) Changing aircraft and position/state.

- This is a more complex issue and I do think it requires nuking the JSBSim
instance and creating a new one.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSIM Aircraft Crash at Reset

2011-02-06 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 Go to JSBSim/src and add '-p 4' to the patch command line.
 (this skips 4 levels of directory entries)
 
 Erik

That works. Sort of. But it's trying to patch JSBSim.cxx which we no longer
have in JSBSim standalone.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSIM Aircraft Crash at Reset

2011-02-06 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 PS: I've made several reset tests, all look good now. Also, no
 side-effects with the previous patches were reported, so I'm also
 pushing the patches to FG/2.2 now (trying to remember the entire patch
 sequence... :) ).
 
 cheers,
 Thorsten


We'll definitely want to be sure that we don't lose anything between JSBSim
and FlightGear. Bertrand has suggested that for now JSBSim uses Ron Jensen's
GIT repository at http://gitorious.org/jsbsim, and that sounds like a good
idea to me. SourceForge CVS is still down, as AFAICT.

Jon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSIM Aircraft Crash at Reset

2011-02-05 Thread Jon S. Berndt
How can I update my FlightGear development codebase (which was  created a
few months ago) from git so I can try to see this problem?

Jon

 -Original Message-
 From: Erik Hofman [mailto:e...@ehofman.com]
 Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:42 AM
 To: FlightGear developers discussions
 Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSIM Aircraft Crash at Reset
 
 On Sat, 2011-02-05 at 13:31 +0100, henri orange wrote:
  Hi, Erik
 
  Sorry for the question is there somewhere a specific fg2.2 source ?
 
  I am using the git version with git pull, though i don't understand
  the meaning of it, it does work and give me an update.
  I thought it was the fg devel version.
 
  with  fgfs --version i get
  FlightGear version: 2.2.0
 
 I get that too, with the developers version in git..
 It looks like you are using the developers version indeed which is a
 pity since I had hoped this was fixed now.
 
 Erik
 
 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSIM Aircraft Crash at Reset

2011-02-05 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 From: ThorstenB [mailto:bre...@gmail.com]
 
 Hi,
 
 probably spotted the cause for the reported reset crash: it's the same
 as already reported before - targeted by this earlier patch:
 http://www.gitorious.org/fg/flightgear/commit/287cc74965e11ff3888117a9d
 9b88ed2bdbb9252
 
 This patch unties all JSBSim properties prior to reset. However, it's
 not quite sufficient and misses some JSBSim properties.
 Problem is that JSBSim can also tie properties outside the /fdm/jsbsim
 branch - using property paths which can be configured in
 aircraft-specific configuration files.

 ...

 I'm currently testing a different patch for the same issue: instead of
 untieing all properties below the /fdm/jsbsim (only), I added a list to
 JSBSim's FGPropertyManagager, so it keeps track of all the properties
 it has actually bound. It can then use this list to untie all its
 properties - no mattere where these are located in the property tree.
 
 This patch seems to fix the issue for me. I'll do a few more tests and
 (hopefully :) ) propose this a new patch...
 
 cheers,
 
 Thorsten

I thought we already had something like this in JSBSim - I thought I had
added such a feature already, myself, actually, but maybe I just dreamed
it. ;-)

I'll have to go back and look at the [JSBSim] code again. I'd like to figure
out how to make resetting work better from the API - more naturally and
without having to reload the aircraft model. This would be useful for both
the JSBSim standalone executable and for any larger simulation framework
that incorporates JSBSim. 

Jon
www.JSBSim.org
www.facebook.com/jsbsim



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] altimeter problem

2011-01-27 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 Need new graphics cards amd will upgrade to a quad-core machine.  In
 the
 meantime going to offload some of the number crunching for one of the
 projectors to a slave to shoot the videos for the UCD presentation.

UCD ??

jb


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim merge

2011-01-26 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 -Original Message-
 From: Erik Hofman [mailto:e...@ehofman.com]
 Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 5:55 AM
 To: FlightGear developers discussions
 Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim merge
 
 On Mon, 2011-01-24 at 15:40 +, James Turner wrote:
 
  Okay - I'm going to re-apply my patches locally, and also apply
 Andreas Gaeb's NaN fixes (and to the release branch too), but of course
 they all need to be merged to JSBSim proper.
 
 After a bit of discussion it was decided that the FlightGear/JSBSim
 glue
 code in JSBSim.[ch]xx located in FlightGear/src/FDM/JSBSim now is
 maintained by FlightGear developers instead of by JSBSim developers and
 therefore these files will not be overwritten in future updates.
 Instead
 they are now copied over to JSBSim instead to act as example code.
 
 Erik

I have received and applied patches from several places recently. Make sure
that patches are not accidentally reversed.

It is very important that patches - and *very*especially* **any** patches to
FGPropagate - go through the proper channels, tested thoroughly using
several specified scripts on the JSBSim side. All patches must be posted
and/or explained on the JSBSim developer list first prior to being
committed.

I'm not writing this to be heavy-handed, but to avoid problems going
forward, based on past experiences. Sometimes I will see problem reports in
various places and be working locally on the best approach for a fix. So,
merging *from* the flightgear tree to JSBSim might cause problems when I try
to apply my (or another JSBSim developer's) fixes.

So, let's please funnel ALL problem reports about JSBSim issues to the
JSBSim developer list OR via the bug reporting tool:

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=119399group_id=19399func=browse

Thanks - and sorry if this comes across as rude or controlling. It's not
meant to. 

:-)


Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tried to initialize a non-existent engine!

2011-01-25 Thread Jon S. Berndt
  It comes up when at reset , for instance c172p.and we get a crash
 with that message: Tried to initialize a non-existent engine!
 
 It was solved, but my was over-written when Erik updated JSBSim
 (because I didn't remember to submit it to JSBSim). But last night I
 re-appllied the fix to Git, so it should work again - I spent some time
 with the C172 resetting and repositioning and everything worked fine.
 
 (I didn't try any other aircraft, due to lack of time)
 
 James

What patch?

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] NaNs when resetting JSBSim

2011-01-23 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 No, the JSBSim object is created on the heap memory - not on 
 the stack. Only local variables (including local static 
 objects) are on the stack. Heap isn't initialized, neither 
 stack. So member variables have random values - unless 
 explicitly set. Most compilers provide warnings for 
 uninitialized local variables (on the stack), but 
 unfortunately I don't know any compiler (yet) producing 
 warning for uninitialized member variables.

[First: Guys, can you trim quotes, please? And the use of HTML is a pain in
email.]

From a JSBSim perspective, we are very careful about using variables before
they are set/initialized. We have gotten reports from multiple user
communities over years, and this is something that has been addressed
continuously.

I'd like to find a way to reinitialize an instance of JSBSim in FlightGear
without having to destruct it and reinstantiate it. A couple of years ago I
changed the construction process and separated out a reset/reinitialization
feature to permit a sim to be reset, bypassing the loading of aircraft
models. That saved a lot of time. I think that process should be looked at
for resetting JSBSim in FlightGear, too.

It's possible that some newer feature is causing a problem due to an
uninitialized variable that has been so far overlooked, but I expect the
problem lies in a different area. I think it points out that we should have
more error checking, though, so the problem is more gracefully handled and
the user informed.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Hang on reset

2011-01-01 Thread Jon S. Berndt
I seem to vaguely recall some issue with resetting (with JSBSim). I had
thought that the most recent JSBSim code fixed that, though.

 

Jon

 

 

From: henri orange [mailto:hohora...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2011 7:32 AM
To: FlightGear developers discussions
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Hang on reset

 

 

2010/12/31 AJ MacLeod aj-li...@adeptopensource.co.uk

Am I alone in seeing flightgear hanging every time after doing a reset?  My
SG/FG/Data are all current, though I haven't built OSG in a while...

AJ

--


-

No, you are not alone.
I noticed some isues with every  JSBSIM models, recent fg git version and
osg devel-version 2.9.9
You may refer to these link 
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailaid=3139100group_id=19399atid
=119399 aid=3139100group_id=19399atid=119399
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=24500694.1391483129
2331331212.JavaMail.root%40spooler4-g27.priv.proxad.net
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=24500694.139148312
92331331212.JavaMail.root%40spooler4-g27.priv.proxad.netforum_name=flightge
ar-devel forum_name=flightgear-devel

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Best regards,

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] p51d-jsbsim merge request

2010-12-27 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 From: Hal V. Engel [mailto:hven...@gmail.com]

 snip
 
Property /engines/engine[0]/mp-inhg is already defined.
Property /engines/engine/oil-temperature-degf is already defined.
Property /controls/fuel/tank-selector is already defined.
Property /controls/engines/engine/throttle is already defined.
Property ap/ap_map_hold is already defined.
Property ap/throttle-cmd-norm is already defined.
 
 The above happen when I forward declare these in the JSBSIm xml files
 to avoid messages like the next message.
 
  FGPropertyManager::GetNode() No node found for ap/map-error
In condition: ap/map-error LT 0.0. Unknown property ap/map-error
  referenced. Creating property.  Check usage.
 
  Failed to tie property ap/throttle-cmd-out to object methods
  Failed to tie property ap/cooling-cmd-out to object methods
 
 I don't know why the Failed to tie.. messages are happening.  The two
 above are from two jsbsim autopilots that are part of the engine control
 systems.
 One is for the auto manifold pressure system and the second is for the
 automatic coolant temperature controls. Both systems work in spite of
these
 messages.  I would like to eliminate these messages.  Can someone give
 me a clue what to look for?


Hal,

Some time ago we (I) added some checks to prevent problems with config files
due to spelling errors. Sometimes things can get misspelled and there is no
warning to the user, nor any obvious ill effects. The way that the property
system is supposed to work (to my recollection) is that it should not matter
in which order properties are declared, and when a property is encountered
that has not been referenced before, the property is simply created. This is
both useful and dangerous, as we have seen.

So, what we did to try and prevent problems is to notify the user when a
property is being defined that has already been defined, or when a property
is referenced that has not been created.

Unfortunately, it can be problematic when a property is created on the
FlightGear side, but used in the JSBSim side, if one wants to use the
aircraft model in both FlightGear and in standalone JSBSim - or in another
simulation architecture (which would not have nasal support, FWIW).

The system we have set up for handling presumed property creation problems
probably is not perfect, and it can be excessively wordy. We might find a
way to suppress the messages, but I'd want to take another look at them and
make sure I understand why the messages are being shown. Some of them don't
look harmless.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some Aircraft ( jsbsim fdm ?) cannot reset

2010-12-14 Thread Jon S. Berndt
I wonder when this started  happening? When was the previous time that a
sync with JSBSim occurred?


 -Original Message-
 From: James Turner [mailto:zakal...@mac.com]
 Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 6:13 AM
 To: FlightGear developers discussions
 Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some Aircraft ( jsbsim fdm ?) cannot
 reset
 
 
 On 14 Dec 2010, at 11:51, henri orange wrote:
 
  II do  not notice any similar error with, others fdm (yasim, uiuc
 ) though i did not tried all of  these ~400 models
 
  Is it just me ? is it specific to some jsbsim Aircraft ? is it
 specific to jsbsim ?
 
 http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=204
 
 It seems to affect all JSBSim aircraft. We haven't yet pinpointed the
 changes (in JSBSim or FG) that introduced this regression.
 
 James
 
 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] flight data playback

2010-12-10 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 It would be really, really cool if you could do this using the JSBSim
 internal features so it could run in stand-alone, too.  :)
 
 Ron

This is true, because JSBSim is well-suited to various GNC systems modeling.
This has already been done to some degree, but not a lot of time has been
spent on it, yet. I am becoming more and more concerned with the intermixing
of required nasal scripts with JSBSim aircraft simply because it makes it
harder to run the models in a standalone batch mode (for testing) and to
carry them over to another simulator (such as OpenEaagles or Outerra).

Jon



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[Flightgear-devel] Squaring Control Inputs

2010-12-10 Thread Jon S. Berndt
If it was important that a JSBSim aircraft model gets a non-squared joystick
input - that is, a linear joystick position from -1. To +1 (regardless of
what is in the joystick file), how would we command (at runtime) the
squaring to be false? The thinking is that there should be a class method in
FGJSBSim for turning off squaring.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Aircraft model/cockpit rating

2010-12-01 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 Running through the same exercise for the p51d-jsbsim:
 
 FDM: 5
 Systems: 4 (still needs some electrical systems stuff)
 Model: 3 (missing cooling door animation, liveries and Ambient
 Occlusion
 effect)
 Cockpit: 3 (what is there is a 4 but it is missing a few things IE. not
 complete)
 
 Total is 15 average is 3.75.  For a developer this is very quick to do
 as it
 took me all of perhaps 2 minutes.  In addition this has very few things
 that
 are at all subjective.  I like it. 

 ...
 
 Hal

I also think that the criteria laid out is good. One thing, though (and I
apologize if this has already been discussed), but it might be fair to point
out examples of a five somewhere for each category. The point being that can
we really expect to find an aircraft model that is a solid 5? What is the
gold standard? We know how much effort Hal has expended on the P51 flight
model, and I will certainly agree that it rates a 5. Which aircraft models
rate a 5 in which categories? 

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ProFlightSImulator

2010-12-01 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 Woohoo!!! I clicked on one of those ProFlightSimulator ads, and it
 took me to a page saying: ACCOUNT SUSPENDED.
 
 See for yourself here! http://www.proflightsimulator.com/cgi-
 sys/suspendedpage.cgi?hop=txflyer20
 
 Cheers! Drinks all around!
 
 Check Six,
 Jack

It's back.

I was viewing a page on Facebook (with a picture of an older jet fighter on
the Hornet that someone had taken ... you may have seen it :-) and the
simulator ad was right there. It links to this page:

http://www.pennystock-pro.info/ProFligthSimulator.html

It's funny, because flight simulator isn't even spelled right in the link.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Bouncing JSBSim aircraft

2010-11-28 Thread Jon S. Berndt
There was an update to the gear code yesterday. I suppose it's possible that 
the new update has side effects. We'll look into it. Does anyone know when the 
last good code is dated?

Jon


Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on ATT

Gijs de Rooy gijsr...@hotmail.com wrote:


Hi all,

after updating fgdata from Gitorious this evening and installing the win32 
nightly binary from
Hudson (28-nov-2010 7:00:55), JSBSim aircraft suddenly bounce, when at the 
ground. Some
aircraft bounce more than others (747-400 and C172P for example crash due to 
the extreme 
forces), while the followme car only bounces up and down a little. I was able 
to drive around
normally (apart from the bouncing) with the followme. So it looks like it 
depends on the gear 
compression/spring settings of the aircraft being operated.

The YASim aircraft I tried did not show this behaviour. I suspect the problem 
arised after this
commit by Erik: 
http://www.gitorious.org/fg/flightgear/commit/ad51a9bde2995605984161af1b4273b28ce4fddc

Any clue on what's wrong? Can anyone confirm this behaviour?



Cheers,
Gijs 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] p51d-jsbsim merge request.

2010-11-28 Thread Jon S. Berndt
-Original Message-
 From: Hal V. Engel [mailto:hven...@gmail.com]
 I just created a merge request to move updates to the JSBSim p51d into
 fgdata. Changes include:

 ...

 Hal

Would love to see a video of a flight showing these updated features. I
think it would be a really nice showcase for what FlightGear can do.

JB



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] p51d-jsbsim merge request.

2010-11-28 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 There is tons of stuff that remains to be done still.

You sound like me: always seeing what is yet left to be done. From my point
of view, your work on this model is at the top of the charts.

 There are also things that I have not attempted to implement yet
 because they
 are not supported by JSBSim.  The most significant of these for this
 model is
 support for liquid cooled piston engines.  The doors on the dog house
 for
 engine and oil cooling control exist and have animation hooks but there
 is
 currently no way to setup the cooling system since the JSBSIm piston
 engine
 model assumes air cooling and almost none of the cooling related stuff
 is
 exposed in the property tree.  Even if all of these were exposed I am
 not sure
 if it would be possible to fake the behavior of a liquid cooled engine.

Remember that we have implemented pre and post functions in engine modeling.
That is, any arbitrary function can be defined and set to execute either
before or after the main engine model code. That won't help if the
appropriate properties are not exposed, though, of course. Do you have a
list of which properties you still need from the engine model?

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Further properties heads-up - property objects.

2010-11-20 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 It has another interesting feature, suggested by ThorstenB - if you try
 to read an invalid path, it doesn't silently succeed - it throws an
 exception! This is to avoid lurking typos in property paths, which has
 been an issue. (I will be adding a 'weak' variant, that takes a default
 value, for the cases where people want to read a property that might
 not exist)

 ...
 
 I'm not going to start converting tied properties to use
 propertyObjects next week, or next month, but certainly next year. The
 hope is that by that time, this code is mature, efficient and so on -
 so please try it, use it and fix it!
 
 Regards,
 James

This concerns me a bit. JSBSim grabs a copy of the relevant simgear code to
support properties once every couple of years. When JSBSim is built within
FlightGear, we of course just use what's there in the FlightGear tree. But,
when JSBSim is incorporated into other products, they use what we have in
our codebase.  I'm concerned that at some point the property system will
evolve to the point where serious conflicts arise, and backwards
compatibility is broken. We (JSBSim) depend on the property system.

I'm wondering if the property code should just be left well enough alone...

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] How use FG without graphics

2010-11-19 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Yes. How do  you want to send it? To what? See the JSBSim Reference Manual
at www.jsbsim.org.

Jon


 -Original Message-
 From: ing. Petr Ondra [mailto:petr.on...@erm.cz]
 Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 3:13 AM
 To: FlightGear developers discussions
 Subject: [Flightgear-devel] How use FG without graphics
 
 Hi,
 I need to use FG for calculate the flight and navigation, and as an
 image generator using a different system. Can I use the FG without
 loading and rendering any graphics? Is it possible to send over FG
 JSBSim information about the ground reaction?
 
 Thx Petr
 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fwd: in air starts and all preset control/trim settings broke

2010-11-03 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 This would be a good change to test. Note that JSBSim is experience
 NaNs for me on reset/re-position, much of the time - I think I'm more
 prone to this than other people, for some reason. I see the same
 behaviour before and after the change, and Anders informs me it's a
 long-standing bug, but obviously if you're testing reset or reposition
 you're likely to encounter it.
 
 (If someone could get to the bottom of it, that would of course be even
 better)
 
 Regards,
 James

I think this might be our child FDM counter bug.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 747-400 causing crash of fgfs

2010-10-17 Thread Jon S. Berndt
The URL given doesn't work.

 

Jon

 

 

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA9Kato1Cx.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA9Kato1Cx.%20A  A , but that is for upward
loading.  Winking smile emoticon

 

Alan

 

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Yasim, Quadcopter and MatLab

2010-09-19 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 I once toyed with a quadracopter model based on JSBSim.  The propeller
 model
 wasn't sufficient to the task, and I haven't tried again with the newer
 rotor
 model.  There is a simple 3D model you could integrate with the YASim
 version
 perhaps.  The repository is on gitorious:
 http://gitorious.org/ron-s-hanger/quadracopter
 
 Good luck.
 Ron

I thought that the Paparazzi project had one. The BoozSimulator uses JSBSim.

http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/BoozSimulator

I haven't looked at this at all.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Yasim, Quadcopter and MatLab

2010-09-19 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 
 I once toyed with a quadracopter model based on JSBSim.  The propeller
 model
 wasn't sufficient to the task, and I haven't tried again with the newer
 rotor
 model.  There is a simple 3D model you could integrate with the YASim
 version
 perhaps.  The repository is on gitorious:
 http://gitorious.org/ron-s-hanger/quadracopter
 
 Good luck.
 Ron

There also may be a way to do this with the new JSBSim rotor model. There
will probably be an update to that code sometime soon.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Yasim, Quadcopter and MatLab

2010-09-19 Thread Jon S. Berndt
There also may be a way to do this with the new
JSBSim rotor model. There will probably be an
update to that code sometime soon.

Jon
  
  From: Julien Peeters 

  Great to know that. I thought JSBSim cannot model
  rotor based aircrarft.

  Some one knows when this will be released?

  Julien.


Hi, Julien,

Thomas Kreitler donated a rotor model. That was incorporated into JSBSim.
There was also an Apache AH-1 model that worked within FlightGear with the
new JSBSim rotor model, I believe. It's still in a beta stage. We'd like to
see that model be generalized a bit more. Thomas believes he will be able to
do this next month. So, there are still some things that need to be done
with it. You can see the code in the JSBSim project as FGRotor.cpp.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] C++ for Simulation

2010-09-17 Thread Jon S. Berndt
I should mention that the code in question is being rewritten, anyhow - and we 
have a good set of regression tests already.

Jon


-Original Message-
From: Christian Mayer m...@christianmayer.de
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 12:48 PM
To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] C++ for Simulation

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Jon S. Berndt schrieb:
 If cost is an issue (isn't it always?), is it worth
 it to expend the resources to clean up code that may have been gathering
 flotsam and jetsam for years - particularly if you want to add some new
 features (base on new requirements), anyhow?

I'm sure you know the never change a running system. This is IMHO
responsible for the many old fashioned Fortan stuff that's still used
today (although modern C++ would give better performance, etc. pp.)

On the other hand at my day job the embedded software development team
next to me does change languages (from hand coded C to ASCET to
TargetLink to Simulink Embedded Coder) - but that's a slow process and
only parts that need a redesign are affected. The parts that need only
minor additions will stay in the same language unless there's a big need to
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[Flightgear-devel] C++ for Simulation

2010-09-16 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Guys, I've got a question that's come up in my day job. I'd like to ask for
your opinion. If you had to justify to your boss the rewrite of old C code
in C++, could you do it? If cost is an issue (isn't it always?), is it worth
it to expend the resources to clean up code that may have been gathering
flotsam and jetsam for years - particularly if you want to add some new
features (base on new requirements), anyhow?

Jon



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[Flightgear-devel] NASA 3D Models

2010-09-12 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Can these be converted to the format that FlightGear uses - particularly the
crawler, the VAB, and the launch complex - as well as the launch vehicle
models?

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] NASA 3D Models

2010-09-12 Thread Jon S. Berndt
How did I manage to forget to post the link!

 

:-\

 

JB

 

 

From: Leonardo Fabian Grodek [mailto:fabian.gro...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 9:41 AM
To: FlightGear developers discussions
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] NASA 3D Models

 

What a coincidence! I discovered those models just yesterday!

I managed to open the Shuttle model in Blender, so I guess it would be
possible to have them exported to Flightgear.

BTW, here's the link to the site:
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/3d_resources/models.html

Regards,
Fabián

On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 9:34 AM, Jon S. Berndt jonsber...@comcast.net
wrote:

Can these be converted to the format that FlightGear uses - particularly the
crawler, the VAB, and the launch complex - as well as the launch vehicle
models?

Jon




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] NASA 3D Models

2010-09-12 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 Reading the NASA guidelines it seems to be compatible with GPL, so I
 put
 the VAB is in git in Models/Structures. Do you have any plans for it?
 
 Vivian

Not for the VAB, so much, but to launch things from KSC the launch pad is
needed. :-)

And the Ares-1 vehicle would be nice, too. I'll try and look over my model
to make sure there is no sensitive stuff in there and I may place the model
in JSBSim CVS.

Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Building FlightGear under Vista

2010-09-06 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 Hi Jon,
 
 If you don't do local changes updating is as easy as cd:ing into fgdata

Done.

 (and the respective source repositories)

How do I do this?

 and type 'git pull'.

JB




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Building FlightGear under Vista

2010-09-06 Thread Jon S. Berndt
Like  this?

git pull git://gitorious.org/fg/fgdata.git

??

Which branch should I specify?

Jon


 -Original Message-
 From: Jon S. Berndt [mailto:jonsber...@comcast.net]
 Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 11:26 AM
 To: 'FlightGear developers discussions'
 Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Building FlightGear under Vista
 
  Hi Jon,
 
  If you don't do local changes updating is as easy as cd:ing into
 fgdata
 
 Done.
 
  (and the respective source repositories)
 
 How do I do this?
 
  and type 'git pull'.
 
 JB
 
 
 
 
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