Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-20 Thread Arnt Karlsen
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 20:32:47 +0100, joac...@gmx.de wrote in message 20120215203247.3ae11bce@Lenotebook: On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 19:38:34 +0100 Jan Mattsson jan...@gmail.com wrote: The concept of ownership does not work well with GPL. ..disagreed, and agreed, the idea is, whenever things does

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-17 Thread thorsten . i . renk
All people need to know that 60% (or more... it's approximate) of aircraft available for flightgear are created by helijah. More than 80% of them are totaly crappy ! They aren't a good point for FlightGear project ! I think you're mistaking Flightgear for a commercial project here. Sure, in

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-17 Thread Erik Hofman
On Fri, 2012-02-17 at 12:00 +0200, thorsten.i.r...@jyu.fi wrote: Which the rating scheme makes a lot easier now. This makes me think that it may be a nice idea to have the top 10 of best rated aircraft available somewhere as an add-on to the base package. Or something like that. Erik

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-17 Thread Heiko Schulz
All people need to know that 60% (or more... it's approximate) of aircraft available for flightgear are created by helijah. More than 80% of them are totaly crappy ! They aren't a good point for FlightGear project ! vs. If you want to blame someone, you have to blame the people who made

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-17 Thread Martin Spott
Heiko Schulz wrote: I agree that OpenSource allows to add unfinished aircraft and that it can be a Plus for OpenSource. But that doesn't mean that you automatically have to do this! No, there's no written law that you have to do it. But's it's the well-known recpe behind the success of

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-17 Thread Edheldil
On 02/17/2012 12:10 PM, Heiko Schulz wrote: I agree that OpenSource allows to add unfinished aircraft and that it can be a Plus for OpenSource. But that doesn't mean that you automatically have to do this! It can be also a Minus as it seems for me as our system has been abused here, and

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-17 Thread thorsten . i . renk
The fact that we have now 3 different threads about the same topics: DC3, licence violation and cooperation in an OpenSource project, makes it difficult to see where the real problems are. There's a number of separate issues here. * license violation of some commits - this is a real problem,

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-17 Thread Gijs de Rooy
Heiko write: It can be also a Minus as it seems for me as our system has been abused here, and yes, the fact that all aircraft are downloadable without any sign of their state may FGFS let look bad! You might like to start adding status ratings to your own aircraft then ;) It's all

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-16 Thread Erik Hofman
On Thu, 2012-02-16 at 01:19 +0100, David Van Mosselbeen wrote: Should i remind everyone that this all is about open source and GPL v2 data. Some spirit that have already proved it's capacity and functionality. It's all about data that is contribute by different talented peoples from all

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-16 Thread Martin Spott
Erik Hofman wrote: This is hopefully also a good encouragement for the PAF team to keep developing their version and keep it available in their own hangar. There's nothing wrong with two different version of the same aircraft floating around. It's not really custom to FlightGear but almost

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-16 Thread Alan Teeder
Erik Hofman wrote: This is hopefully also a good encouragement for the PAF team to keep developing their version and keep it available in their own hangar. There's nothing wrong with two different version of the same aircraft floating around. It's not really custom to FlightGear but almost

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-16 Thread Erik Hofman
On Thu, 2012-02-16 at 09:18 +, Martin Spott wrote: Erik Hofman wrote: This is hopefully also a good encouragement for the PAF team to keep developing their version and keep it available in their own hangar. There's nothing wrong with two different version of the same aircraft

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-16 Thread Durk Talsma
On 11 Feb 2012, at 21:46, Clement de l'Hamaide wrote: Hi all, [ SNIP] Cheers, Clément -- I'm trying to take a neutral position here, so I'm not going to comment on who is right and who's wrong, but instead would

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-16 Thread Detlef Faber
Am 15.02.2012 19:30, schrieb kreuzritter2000: Am Sonntag, den 12.02.2012, 11:00 +0100 schrieb Erik Hofman: So Emanuel has every right to dismiss any modifications on *his* model and to update git accordingly. I agree he is the owner of the model, but he is not the owner of the FlightGear

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-16 Thread syd adams
For what its worth , I see several of my aircraft in this hangar and I wasn't asked permission for that so sounds like a ridiculous argument from the start . This team should others as they wish to be treated .Good place to end the discussion.

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-16 Thread Clement de l'Hamaide
Hi, This team should others as they wish to be treated An huge difference exist here : you haven't received insult. Helijah insult PAF members ! PAF team and you are not in bad relation (AFAIK) : this difference is important. All people need to know that 60% (or more... it's approximate) of

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-16 Thread Heiko Schulz
For what its worth , I see several of my aircraft in this hangar and I wasn't asked permission for that so sounds like a ridiculous argument from the start . This team should others as they wish to be treated .Good place to end the discussion. Several? I only see one aircraft (Aerostar

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-16 Thread syd adams
yes my mistake i misread a name. My point was that the whole argument was about getting permission , and it seemed a little one-sided. All the aircraft in that hangar are someone else original work.And I dont have a problem with that, just the basis of the argument. Yes the 'its GPL so i can do

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-16 Thread HB-GRAL
Hi Clément Am 16.02.12 17:45, schrieb Clement de l'Hamaide: I have create a discussion here : http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=28709446 and I haven't received answer from devel list ... I noticed this post. Maybe it is better to clone the gitorious repo fgdata, send a

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-15 Thread kreuzritter2000
Am Sonntag, den 12.02.2012, 11:00 +0100 schrieb Erik Hofman: So Emanuel has every right to dismiss any modifications on *his* model and to update git accordingly. I agree he is the owner of the model, but he is not the owner of the FlightGear project. I see the aircraft name DC-3 as a

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-15 Thread Jan Mattsson
The concept of ownership does not work well with GPL. /J 2012/2/15 kreuzritter2000 kreuzritter2...@gmx.de: I agree he is the owner of the model, but he is not the owner of the FlightGear project. -- Virtualization

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-15 Thread joacher
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 19:38:34 +0100 Jan Mattsson jan...@gmail.com wrote: The concept of ownership does not work well with GPL. What about maintainers? Who is the official maintainer of a 'placeholder'? --

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-15 Thread Heiko Schulz
Hello, I agree he is the owner of the model, but he is not the owner of the FlightGear project. I would disagree here in one point. From my understanding of the law, he is just the owner = copyright-holder of the parts he made (basic 3d-model, basic .xmls), but not the parts which had been

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-15 Thread David Van Mosselbeen
Should i remind everyone that this all is about open source and GPL v2 data. Some spirit that have already proved it's capacity and functionality. It's all about data that is contribute by different talented peoples from all around the world. It's all about little self made parts from each other

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-14 Thread Arnt Karlsen
On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 23:58:40 +0100, Clement wrote in message col120-w338be1e3c58ca9cef19e38c3...@phx.gbl: Hi Martin, The original author of the model is Emmanuel Baranger ..which answers the chicken-and-egg question any competent judge or lawyer would ask on who decided on the license on

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-12 Thread Clement de l'Hamaide
Hi, In my precedent mail I have forgot to say that Ernest Teutcher, Alexis Laille, Christian Thiriot and Clément de l'Hamaide (it's me) are the members of the PAF team. We can consider the current DC-3 is here because the PAF team had created 80% of the DC-3. And E.Baranger had created 20% of

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-12 Thread Erik Hofman
On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 10:45 +0100, Clement de l'Hamaide wrote: Hi, In my precedent mail I have forgot to say that Ernest Teutcher, Alexis Laille, Christian Thiriot and Clément de l'Hamaide (it's me) are the members of the PAF team. We can consider the current DC-3 is here because the PAF

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-12 Thread HB-GRAL
Am 12.02.12 11:00, schrieb Erik Hofman: On Sun, 2012-02-12 at 10:45 +0100, Clement de l'Hamaide wrote: Hi, In my precedent mail I have forgot to say that Ernest Teutcher, Alexis Laille, Christian Thiriot and Clément de l'Hamaide (it's me) are the members of the PAF team. We can consider the

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-12 Thread Alexis Bory
Le 12/02/2012 11:00, Erik Hofman a écrit : That said, it's sad to see the situation end up like this. I always found it quite pleasing to work with others that updated my model byt frankly I would get mad when at one point they would claim ownership like you do. I second Erik on that one. I

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-12 Thread Clement de l'Hamaide
Hi all, You are right, we are here to improve FG. In our next release we will include a file with the list off all our last improvment. After this release I stop to improve the DC-3 C47 To close this discussion : DC-3 C47 released by helijah : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNp6ub7hQak DC-3

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-12 Thread Martin Spott
Clement de l'Hamaide wrote: To close this discussion : DC-3 C47 released by helijah : DC-3 C47 released by PAF team : No, I'm certainly _not_ going to look at the videos, because I consider this sort of competition in an OpenSource project as plain stupid. Why didn't the various authors of

[Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-11 Thread Clement de l'Hamaide
Hi all, The PAF team just seeing our integral contributions have been uploaded on GIT by E.Baranger aka helijah. (Commit : https://gitorious.org/fg/fgdata/commit/4fb29b9010ae69e01b46a7ea074259b04b12064e ) This member haven't asked any

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-11 Thread Martin Spott
Salut Clement, Clement de l'Hamaide wrote: The PAF team just seeing our integral contributions have been uploaded on GIT by E.Baranger aka helijah. (Commit : https://gitorious.org/fg/fgdata/commit/4fb29b9010ae69e01b46a7ea074259b04b12064e ) This member haven't asked any

[Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-11 Thread Clement de l'Hamaide
Hi Martin, The original author of the model is Emmanuel Baranger The original author of basic XML animation for model is Emmanuel Baranger The original author of instruments panel is Alexis Laille The original author of the Dual Control (copilot passenger) adapted for DC-3 is Clément de

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fair practice autorisations

2012-02-11 Thread syd adams
Clément ,Not trying to start a flame war , but you modified someone else's work , so this sounds a bit odd , but i do understand your point .Ive seen a lot of things Ive modelled end up in other's 'original' work , but i've also borrowed nasal scripts and ideas from others so I can't complain .I