Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings - memory consumption

2012-05-27 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 7:18 AM, Mathias Fröhlich wrote: Good morning, On Friday, May 25, 2012 19:48:32 Stuart Buchanan wrote: Thanks for taking a look. I think that the SGBuildingBin destructor will be called when I call the list clear() method on the SGBuldingBinList (SGBuildingBin.cxx

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings - memory consumption

2012-05-26 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
Good morning, On Friday, May 25, 2012 19:48:32 Stuart Buchanan wrote: Thanks for taking a look. I think that the SGBuildingBin destructor will be called when I call the list clear() method on the SGBuldingBinList (SGBuildingBin.cxx line 654). That in turn calls clear() I have no current

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings - memory consumption

2012-05-25 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 7:07 AM, Mathias Fröhlich wrote: I may be false since I really only spent *very* little time on that. But I believe you never free the content of the building bin list. That means the pointers stored in the list are gone, but the building bins - the pointees - are still

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings - memory consumption

2012-05-25 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Emilian Huminiuc wrote: All this ignores the fact that Stuart was actualy using the live weather hence we don't actualy know the visibility/ number of tiles loaded, that we don't know which way he was facing, the fact that in reality just 1/6 of the surface

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings - memory consumption

2012-05-24 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
Hi, On Wednesday, May 23, 2012 10:37:00 Stuart Buchanan wrote: So - Does anyone have any bright ideas on what I can do to reduce the base memory occupancy? One option might be to not generate the basement if the terrain is level. - Could a fresh pair of eyes take a look at the obj.cxx,

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings - memory consumption

2012-05-24 Thread scosu
Hi, I don't have any clue of the opengl and simgear based stuff, so I looked only at the struct Building and how to optimize that. In the attachment you can find 3 structs representing the data. The original is yours. 'small' is a very small optimization that doesn't require you to map floats to

[Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings - memory consumption

2012-05-23 Thread Stuart Buchanan
Hi All, Emilian and Vivian have pointed out a problem with the random buildings - they gobble memory. I'd like to get some advice on whether there's any solution, and also to ask someone with more C++ knowledge than myself to take a look at the code and check I'm not doing something stupid. The

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings - memory consumption

2012-05-23 Thread Renk Thorsten
Using the default random building density, the tiles that are loaded initially when sitting on the runway generates ~ 340k random buildings. We might be generating too many buildings then? The greater Los Angeles area has between 13 and 16 million inhabitants (dependent on what you count).

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings - memory consumption

2012-05-23 Thread Emilian Huminiuc
On Wednesday 23 May 2012 10:23:12 Renk Thorsten wrote: Using the default random building density, the tiles that are loaded initially when sitting on the runway generates ~ 340k random buildings. We might be generating too many buildings then? The greater Los Angeles area has between

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings - memory consumption

2012-05-23 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 11:54 AM, Emilian Huminiuc wrote: Besides being totally off topic, you can't do that direct comparison. I don't think it's off-topic. The parameters I've used for generating random buildings are somewhat a guess based on the densly populated regions of the UK First

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings - memory consumption

2012-05-23 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Renk Thorsten wrote: Using the default random building density,  the tiles that are loaded initially when sitting on the runway generates ~ 340k random buildings. We might be generating too many buildings then? The greater Los Angeles area has between 13

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings - memory consumption

2012-05-23 Thread Emilian Huminiuc
On Wednesday 23 May 2012 12:10:16 Stuart Buchanan wrote: Actualy the Geater LA + Inland Empire area should use more somewhat small buildings, as the overwhelming majority of the residential buildings in that area are individual houses, all the way E to San Bernardino. So, are these

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings - memory consumption

2012-05-23 Thread Renk Thorsten
Besides being totally off topic, you can't do that direct comparison. First off, our default scenery lacks a lot of detail in the urban area boundaries in that area thus marking a far larger area as being urban - a far larger area on which to generate buildings That'd makes my point

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings - memory consumption

2012-05-23 Thread Emilian Huminiuc
On Wednesday 23 May 2012 14:16:02 Emilian Huminiuc wrote: So, are these areas defined as Urban, or Suburban/Town in our global scenery? -Stuart Just by looking at how the terrain is textured in FG, I can say they are defined as Urban. And the mapserver seems to agree with that

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings - memory consumption

2012-05-23 Thread Emilian Huminiuc
On Wednesday 23 May 2012 11:20:28 Renk Thorsten wrote: We're not talking a regionalized building placement concept here... we're doing an order of magnitude case study for our average US-themed city. * Thorsten No, I think you're extrapolating from a particularly bad case of mismatch

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings - memory consumption

2012-05-23 Thread Renk Thorsten
No, I think you're extrapolating from a particularly bad case of mismatch between reality and simulation. I wasn't talking about regionalized building placement, I was talking about bad landclass representation in that particular area, representation from which come the figures you used

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings - memory consumption

2012-05-23 Thread Emilian Huminiuc
On Wednesday 23 May 2012 12:05:05 Renk Thorsten wrote: No, I think you're extrapolating from a particularly bad case of mismatch between reality and simulation. I wasn't talking about regionalized building placement, I was talking about bad landclass representation in that particular

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings - memory consumption

2012-05-23 Thread Björn Kesten
Would trimming down building variety help? -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings - memory consumption

2012-05-23 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Björn Kesten wrote: Would trimming down building variety help? Unfortunately not. Individual buildings aren't instantiations of a small number of objects, as the random vegetation is. Instead, a huge group of buildings are a single OSG object, which limits the

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings - memory consumption

2012-05-23 Thread Björn Kesten
In other words, object batching is imlemented and used. Good to know, thanks. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings - memory consumption

2012-05-23 Thread Frederic Bouvier
Hi Stuart, De: Stuart Buchanan On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Björn Kesten wrote: Would trimming down building variety help? Unfortunately not. Individual buildings aren't instantiations of a small number of objects, as the random vegetation is. Instead, a huge group of buildings

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings - memory consumption

2012-05-23 Thread Martin Spott
Emilian Huminiuc wrote: http://mapserver.flightgear.org/map/?lon=-118.18562lat=33.91857zoom=11layers=0B00TFFFTFFFTFFF Just as a reminder the colour legend is here: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/LandcoverDB_CS_Detail Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2

2012-05-13 Thread Emilian Huminiuc
On Saturday 12 May 2012 21:49:46 Stuart Buchanan wrote: Unfortunately, it appears to no longer work when the lightfield shader is enabled - the buildings all lose their textures. I've had a look at the hierarchy of effects files, but can't see any obvious problem. Do you have any idea what

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2

2012-05-12 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 7:29 AM, Renk Thorsten wrote: Since the random buildings are now in the effect system, I've run a few tests with the lightfield shaders yesterday. The good news is: It works just fine. With some help from Emilian, we've changed the buildings to make use of the

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2

2012-05-05 Thread Gene Buckle
The guy with the i5@3.3/8G/GT450 (and taking 50ms/frame for full-noise rembrandt) has a crapton of hardware grunt -- no current commercial game is going to bring that machine to its knees -- we're just *slow*. X-Plane 10 would kill it dead as a post. :) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2

2012-05-05 Thread Björn Kesten
On Sat, May 5, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Gene Buckle ge...@deltasoft.com wrote: The guy with the i5@3.3/8G/GT450 (and taking 50ms/frame for full-noise rembrandt) has a crapton of hardware grunt -- no current commercial game is going to bring that machine to its knees -- we're just *slow*. X-Plane 10

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2

2012-05-04 Thread Renk Thorsten
For the purpose of making the tests more comparable, would not it be better to use a standard setting/script/options which would set FG to some defined state? In this case clearly no. I'm interested in the relative change matrix of framerates for two features being on or off, not in the

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2

2012-05-04 Thread Alan Teeder
-Original Message- From: Renk Thorsten Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 1:31 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2 For the purpose of making the tests more comparable, would not it be better to use a standard

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2

2012-05-04 Thread James Turner
On 4 May 2012, at 14:21, Alan Teeder wrote: At the moment it seems to me that FG requirements are increasing faster than the performance of affordable computers. A few months ago I was getting over 60 fps with an Intel i5-2500k CPU @3.30GHz, 8Gb Ram, Nvidia GTS 450 combination. This is

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2

2012-05-04 Thread Renk Thorsten
At the moment it seems to me that FG requirements are increasing faster than the performance of affordable computers. I can't confirm that. The 'bare' current binary (= all shaders off) runs even a bit faster for me than previous releases. I think one clearly needs to distinguish between

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2

2012-05-04 Thread Geoff McLane
I agree that for this question, a standardized benchmark would be useful. Hi, Not exactly 'standardized' but certainly agree the some comparative information is important, not only which video/resolution/OS/... These were all run as default, noon, full screen, 1440x900, c172p, motor idling,

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2

2012-05-04 Thread Alan Teeder
-Original Message- From: James Turner Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 2:32 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2 On 4 May 2012, at 14:21, Alan Teeder wrote: At the moment it seems to me that FG requirements

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2

2012-05-04 Thread Chris Forbes
I would be happy to set up an automated are we fast yet-style system for FG. It would be nice to have perhaps 10 minutes worth of (representative) test that the machine can just run against every commit. What hardware do people think is actually a sensible baseline? The guy with the

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2

2012-05-03 Thread Renk Thorsten
Since the random buildings are now in the effect system, I've run a few tests with the lightfield shaders yesterday. The good news is: It works just fine. The bad news is: It eats performance like mad. For comparison: Without lightfield shading, I had a test case involving a large urban area

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2

2012-05-03 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 7:29 AM, Renk Thorsten wrote: Since the random buildings are now in the effect system, I've run a few tests with the lightfield shaders yesterday. The good news is: It works just fine. The bad news is: It eats performance like mad. For comparison: Without

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2

2012-05-02 Thread Gene Buckle
On Tue, 1 May 2012, Stuart Buchanan wrote: Hi All, I've just committed a change that adds emissive lighting to the random buildings: http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/buildings-evening.jpg That looks fantastic Stuart! It'll be cool when you can fly over and catch someone playing Tetris

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2

2012-05-02 Thread Jon Stockill
On Wed, 2 May 2012 07:17:45 -0700 (PDT), Gene Buckle wrote: On Tue, 1 May 2012, Stuart Buchanan wrote: Hi All, I've just committed a change that adds emissive lighting to the random buildings: http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/buildings-evening.jpg That looks fantastic Stuart!

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2

2012-05-02 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Björn Kesten wrote: Stu, do you have plans to regionalize the autogenerated buildings? This is already supported in the code, and just needs someone to spend some time creating textures and changing some XML. The buildings (including the texture to use) are

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2

2012-05-02 Thread Björn Kesten
Good to know, thanks. Texture work is not important, since there's way more people who know their way around PS/GIMP than people who can code such autogen systems. :) -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2

2012-05-02 Thread Gene Buckle
On Wed, 2 May 2012, Jon Stockill wrote: http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/buildings-evening.jpg That looks fantastic Stuart! It'll be cool when you can fly over and catch someone playing Tetris on the side of one of those buildings. :D Damnit, now I need to find time to model the

[Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2

2012-05-01 Thread Stuart Buchanan
Hi All, I've just committed a change that adds emissive lighting to the random buildings: http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/buildings-evening.jpg At present, this only works with rembrandt and the skydome switched off. You'll need generic shaders switched on. -Stuart

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings improvements - phase 1

2012-04-30 Thread Renk Thorsten
I've just checked in a change so the buildings now use the Effects system properly, which includes a global cache of the textures. This might help. Nice - have to try this. Btw - could you take a look at the ambient value of the material declaration? I have the feeling it is very low, I'm

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings improvements - phase 1

2012-04-30 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Renk Thorsten wrote: Btw - could you take a look at the ambient value of the material declaration? I have the feeling it is very low, I'm getting very black shadows for low sun, much more than for the typical static building. From memory, I've set it to 0.3.

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings improvements - phase 1

2012-04-30 Thread Renk Thorsten
From memory, I've set it to 0.3. It is configurable in the data/Effects/buidling.eff file under parameters/material/ambient if you want to have a look yourself. I'm happy to accept a change to the value - I haven't spent any time tuning it. Okay, that explains it. I think it should be in

[Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings improvements - phase 1

2012-04-28 Thread Stuart Buchanan
Hi All, I've made a couple of updates to the random buildings to address some of the feedback received so far. 1) As suggested by Thorsten R. I've changed the placement algorithm from random to a grid-like arrangement. This should allow faster scenery generation, as it allows me to reduce the

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-28 Thread Gijs de Rooy
Heiko wrote: With todays GIT it seems to me that the buttons in all dialogs are much smaller than before- optical illusion, or does someone else noticed it? I've noticed the same on every dialog, except advanced weather... Gijs

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings improvements - phase 1

2012-04-28 Thread James Turner
On 28 Apr 2012, at 20:10, Stuart Buchanan wrote: 3) I've reduce the number of Drawables generated by reducing the quad tree depth from 3 to 2, and reducing the number of LoD leaf nodes from 10 to 4. James Turner - I'd be very interested if this change improves your framerates. Sadly no (I

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-26 Thread Frederic Bouvier
Hi Stuart, On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Renk Thorsten wrote: Hm... I'm getting good performance, but the rendering of the random buildings do not seem to go via model-default.eff - they respond to the normal visibility, but not to the terrain haze layer, so they remain visible when

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-26 Thread James Turner
On 25 Apr 2012, at 14:56, Stuart Buchanan wrote: If you're going to be looking in the code anyway, the depth of the quad tree is set in some constants at the top of the SGBuildingBin.cxx file, and (IIRC) the LoD range is also set up there, so you could see if reducing the depth makes a

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-26 Thread Björn Kesten
Vivian: A combination of canopy features with individual features scattered around the edge? Just like in the Enemy Engaged series of helicopter sims? (See picture) http://www.nexgam.de/media/cache/nexgam/img/articles/8753/Enemy-Engaged-Comanche-vs-Hokum-1.jpg I say this would be a viable

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-26 Thread Vivian Meazza
Björn Vivian: A combination of canopy features with individual features scattered around the edge? Just like in the Enemy Engaged series of helicopter sims? (See picture) http://www.nexgam.de/media/cache/nexgam/img/articles/8753/Enemy- Engaged-Comanche-vs-Hokum-1.jpg I say this

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-26 Thread Björn Kesten
Vivian: It surely isn't, but who cares, as long as it works. (It works very well in Enemy Engaged and still looks quite good, despite being from 1999 (original version).) B. -- Live Security Virtual Conference

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-26 Thread Stuart Buchanan
2012/4/26 Björn Kesten : Vivian: A combination of canopy features with individual features scattered around the edge? Just like in the Enemy Engaged series of helicopter sims? (See picture) http://www.nexgam.de/media/cache/nexgam/img/articles/8753/Enemy-Engaged-Comanche-vs-Hokum-1.jpg I

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-26 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
Hi, On Thursday, April 26, 2012 08:32:19 James Turner wrote: On 25 Apr 2012, at 14:56, Stuart Buchanan wrote: If you're going to be looking in the code anyway, the depth of the quad tree is set in some constants at the top of the SGBuildingBin.cxx file, and (IIRC) the LoD range is also

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread flightgear
Yves: Towns are not point features. The vmap0 represents towns as points, but these particular points are parsed by terragear and turned into 1km by 1km polygons which are burned into the terrain. That gives the square appearance in the default scenery. Hi John Yes, I’m aware of this

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 9:03 AM, wrote: Yes, I’m aware of this behaviour of terragear and vmap0. But I also remember this town model, a european church-like building with some houses grouped, all with same elevation. This looked very ugly i.e. in mountain areas (half of the village in the

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread Martin Spott
Stuart Buchanan wrote: I don't believe the town model has been used for some time. It was supersede by the random object masking I introduced a while back. I think what John and Yves are talking about is the introduction of the various zone_maison models for each spot (therefore the term

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 9:26 AM, Martin Spott wrote: Stuart Buchanan wrote: I don't believe the town model has been used for some time. It was supersede by the random object masking I introduced a while back. I think what John and Yves are talking about is the introduction of the various

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread Erik Hofman
On Wed, 2012-04-25 at 08:26 +, Martin Spott wrote: Stuart Buchanan wrote: I don't believe the town model has been used for some time. It was supersede by the random object masking I introduced a while back. I think what John and Yves are talking about is the introduction of the

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread Martin Spott
Erik Hofman wrote: On Wed, 2012-04-25 at 08:26 +, Martin Spott wrote: Unfortunately Erik never bothered responding to this issue, therefore it's uncertain wether he'd silently agree or silently disagree to reverting the above commit. I don't mind if it gets reverted but I did respond

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread James Turner
On 24 Apr 2012, at 22:09, Stuart Buchanan wrote: Feedback is welcome as always. For me, the builds are extremely expensive - no idea why. The actual density doesn't make a huge different (1.0 vs 2.0, I will experiment more later). Eg my draw + GPU times go from 15msec to 100msec when I

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 10:06 AM, James Turner wrote: For me, the builds are extremely expensive - no idea why. The actual density doesn't make a huge different (1.0 vs 2.0, I will experiment more later). Eg my draw + GPU times go from 15msec to 100msec when I enable random buildings. This

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread Renk Thorsten
Hm... I'm getting good performance, but the rendering of the random buildings do not seem to go via model-default.eff - they respond to the normal visibility, but not to the terrain haze layer, so they remain visible when I turn on heavy ground fog. Is there a conceptual problem, or can this be

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Renk Thorsten wrote: Hm... I'm getting good performance, but the rendering of the random buildings do not seem to go via model-default.eff - they respond to the normal visibility, but not to the terrain haze layer, so they remain visible when I turn on

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread Vivian Meazza
Stuart -Original Message- From: Buchanan [mailto:stuar...@gmail.com] Sent: 25 April 2012 10:20 To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 10:06 AM, James Turner wrote: For me, the builds are extremely expensive

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread Vivian Meazza
Stuart -Original Message- From: Stuart Buchanan [mailto:stuar...@gmail.com] Sent: 25 April 2012 10:20 To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 10:06 AM, James Turner wrote: For me, the builds are extremely

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread Vivian Meazza
-Original Message- From: Vivian Meazza [mailto:vivian.mea...@lineone.net] Sent: 25 April 2012 10:46 To: 'FlightGear developers discussions' Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings One random thought - I think the texture (data/Textures/buildings.png) may still have

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread James Turner
On 25 Apr 2012, at 11:53, Vivian Meazza wrote: Removed in Git Alas this makes no difference. Performance drop is roughly linear in the building density, though I won't claim it's strictly linear. Given that this is an Ati 5770, I would be *extremely* surprised if I'm fill-rate limited.

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:05 PM, James Turner wrote: Performance drop is roughly linear in the building density, though I won't claim it's strictly linear. Given that this is an Ati 5770, I would be *extremely* surprised if I'm fill-rate limited. Very suspicious. Have you tried areas

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread James Turner
On 25 Apr 2012, at 12:35, Stuart Buchanan wrote: I must admit that I've only tested Edinburgh and San Francisco, which may simply not have as much Urban area as Berlin. I'll try Berlin when I get the chance, but could you see if the same problem occurs at EGPH and KSFO? Yep, second run

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread James Turner
On 25 Apr 2012, at 12:56, James Turner wrote: Right, I can see that too. The draw / GPU times increases proportionally as the tiles (re-)load with buildings. It points to the actual geometry being the limiting factor, which is very odd.

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread James Turner
On 25 Apr 2012, at 13:35, James Turner wrote: Other suggestions most welcome. Emilian suggested I check random vegetation (which generates many more quads), at LOWI with vegetation off/onthe difference is from 50 fps down to 30ish, and quad count goes from 100k to 200k - but nothing like

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 1:35 PM, James Turner wrote: Observations        - where did all the quads come from? Is my card going to a slow path to submit quads? The Quads came from all the random buildings you've just created (or have I misunderstood?) Each building consists of 9-12 quads,

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 1:57 PM, James Turner wrote: Emilian suggested I check random vegetation (which generates many more quads), at LOWI with vegetation off/onthe difference is from 50 fps down to 30ish, and quad count goes from 100k to 200k - but nothing like what happens for buildings

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread James Turner
On 25 Apr 2012, at 14:22, Stuart Buchanan wrote: Perhaps I should be using a QUAD_STRIP instead. Don't know if that would make much difference though. Doubtful, I'd say, if they are already in a single primitive set. The extra 300 Drawables are from the quadtree that is generated to a)

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 2:44 PM, James Turner wrote: On 25 Apr 2012, at 14:22, Stuart Buchanan wrote: The extra 300 Drawables are from the quadtree that is generated to a) make culling fast b) to provide a mixture of LOD so that buildings don't all appear in big blocks.  That code is taken

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread Oliver Thurau
Emilian suggested I check random vegetation (which generates many more quads), at LOWI with vegetation off/onthe difference is from 50 fps down to 30ish, and quad count goes from 100k to 200k - but nothing like what happens for buildings with draw / GPU time. Interesting to note that

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread James Turner
On 25 Apr 2012, at 14:56, Stuart Buchanan wrote: One benefit is better culling. The other is that we can have buildings gradually appear rather than all springing into view at once when you get within the LoD range of the center of the time (where objects at the edge might be significantly

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread ThorstenB
Am 25.04.2012 13:35, schrieb Stuart Buchanan: Also, there is a significant slow-down in scenery loading. I can certainly confirm ;-). It's not just a longer delay for initial start-up (splash screen takes much longer to drop), it's also causing issues with scenery taking too long to be loaded

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-25 Thread Heiko Schulz
Hello, Well done! A great enhancement! Now towns and Cities looks like they should! Here on my system Framerates are really good, but yes scenery loading needs some time- until framerates are stable enough to use it needs a much longer time. A very big surprise to me was that all buildings

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-24 Thread HB-GRAL
Am 23.04.12 17:40, schrieb Stuart Buchanan: On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 1:17 AM, HB-GRAL wrote: Just a small question because I’m currently looking to OSM street data and try to use it for scenery creation ... in your last screenshot of your improvements I still see buildings on streets (not the

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-24 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 9:19 AM, HB-GRALwrote: Maybe just another dumb question, but wouldn’t it be possible to dynamically create a generalized mask with .stg point coords from the custom objects? Yes, but the current architecture separates the .stg loading from the .btg loading in such a way

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-24 Thread Stuart Buchanan
The initial commit of the random buildings is now available in git. To enable this, you'll need to set /sim/rendiner/random-buildings=true. This is available through the Rendering Options dialog, and requires the scenery tile to be reloaded to take effect (via the Reload Scenery button on that

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-24 Thread flightgear
On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Stuart Buchanan wrote: The initial commit of the random buildings is now available in git. One thing I forgot to mention: you need to be running with data/materials/default/materials.xml or data/materials/dds/materials.xml. The data/materials[-dds],xml are

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-24 Thread J. Holden
Yves: Towns are not point features. The vmap0 represents towns as points, but these particular points are parsed by terragear and turned into 1km by 1km polygons which are burned into the terrain. That gives the square appearance in the default scenery. In custom scenery, medium to low

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-23 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 1:17 AM, HB-GRAL wrote: Just a small question because I’m currently looking to OSM street data and try to use it for scenery creation ... in your last screenshot of your improvements I still see buildings on streets (not the streets on urban textures, I mean the real

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-22 Thread HB-GRAL
Am 19.04.12 17:52, schrieb Stuart Buchanan: On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 4:39 PM, rickbritto wrote: hello friends, Is possible to separate the random loading by types of buildings? Yes. The materials.xml file allows you to define different parameters for different landlclasses (e.g. Urban,

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-19 Thread rickbritto
hello friends, Is possible to separate the random loading by types of buildings? as residential areas with houses,urban areas with Great Buildings,Commercial areas with buildings commercial stores. I separated some models I made in blocks, as shown below, and we could implement them in 

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-19 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 4:39 PM, rickbritto wrote: hello friends, Is possible to separate the random loading by types of buildings? Yes. The materials.xml file allows you to define different parameters for different landlclasses (e.g. Urban, Suburban, Commercial), and as mentioned above I'm

[Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-18 Thread Stuart Buchanan
Hi All, A while back I initiated a discussion about improving our random buildings, and got lots of very useful feedback and suggestions. The first part of this (masking of random object and vegetation placement to match the underlying terrain texture) has been in git for some time. I have

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-18 Thread James Turner
On 18 Apr 2012, at 10:25, Stuart Buchanan wrote: There are still some bugs to be worked out before this can be pushed to git, but I'm hoping to get it checked in over the weekend. Fantastic. And, the performance numbers confirm many discussions here - the batched geometry with no state

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-18 Thread Renk Thorsten
Before and after screenshots: Before - http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/buildings-old.jpg After - http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/buildings.jpg Wow, this looks pretty good! Why are there buildings on the street though - isn't that a different landclass? Does this have to an US-style

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-18 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 10:30 AM, James Turner wrote: Could you make the density controllable? If the hit is really 'almost zero', I think about double the density in your screenshot would look even better. Yes, the density is controllable in the same way as the random vegetation density (i.e.

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-18 Thread Renk Thorsten
However, one of the issues I'm hitting right now is that I have to avoid overlapping buildings by binning buildings that are too close to other buildings. As density increases you get more overlapping, and spend more time binning points, so scenery loading starts taking longer. Create a

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-18 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Renk Thorsten wrote: Wow, this looks pretty good! Why are there buildings on the street though - isn't that a different landclass? That's a bug in the placement algorithm - the buildings shouldn't extend past the edges of the city landclass. I'm planning to

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-18 Thread Björn Kesten
Wow, this is beyond awesome! And even better than the buggy shader! I'd take a look at the texture(s) used and see what I can do. B. -- Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to monitoring Big Data

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-18 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
Hi, On Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:25:55 Stuart Buchanan wrote: For those interested, the technical background is as follows: - a Quadtree is used to ensure very fast culling of the buildings - based on the work that Tim Moore did for the forests. - a single 1024x1024 texture is used for

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-18 Thread Stuart Buchanan
2012/4/18 Mathias Fröhlich wrote: Let me be somehow picky: You are talking about having the houses in the same geometry, that's already fine. The next thing to care for is that they are also in a minimum amount of osg::PrimitiveSet instances. That's about minimizing the amount of draw calls

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random Buildings

2012-04-18 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
Hi, On Wednesday, April 18, 2012 17:21:56 Stuart Buchanan wrote: I think I've already got that covered. I'm using a single osg::PrimitiveSet, and a single list of QUADS/vertices/normals/colors/textureCoords at the leaf of each Quadtree. Great! Thanks! Mathias