Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2012-08-28 Thread Julien Nguyen
So if it's normal, it's ok for me!

Thank you! Sorry for the noise!

Cheers,

 Julien

Le 28/08/2012 04:28, Ryan M a écrit :
 Hello Julien,

 Those files are dummy models; they serve no purpose whatsoever
 except to specify the texture paths for the different airlines in the
 jetway models. Trying to load them as full models will cause
 FlightGear to not find a model, and- you guessed it- not find this
 mythical AirlineSign object.;-)

 I'll admit it is an odd setup, and probably one that deserves a
 rethink in the future. I'm considering a partial rewrite of my Nasal
 files during the FG 3.0.0 development cycle, so I'll definitely take a
 look here.

 ~Ryan


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2012-08-27 Thread Martin Spott
Hi Ryan,

A Person wrote:

 I can assure you that I do care. Over the past several months, life
 has been really occupying me and I have not had much time to check
 email or keep up with the FlightGear mailing list. Sorry for missing
 your messages; the only reason I was able to catch this one was
 because a friend on IRC informed me of it.

I really wonder how you manage to afford time for IRC when your budget
is too tight to check EMail  :-)

Anyhow, the reason why I had been writing EMail several times is the
removal of the /sim/paths/use-custom-scenery-data clause.  This
property has been removed, the state which had been activated by the
flag is now permanent - see:

  
http://mapserver.flightgear.org/git/gitweb.pl?p=flightgear;a=commit;h=8d3e1b06be9ad55b17b90a9ee4c38b97cb362913

and:

  
http://mapserver.flightgear.org/git/gitweb.pl?p=fgdata;a=commit;h=85c4550cc9e10bd3a0169906155be6d5199b45ee


For the other stuff I'll try to guide the person reporting the issues
to this thread.

Cheers,
Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2012-08-27 Thread Julien Nguyen
Hi Ryan,

When I wanted to create some thumbnails for the models in 
scenemodels.com, every models named generic.airline.***.xml doesn't 
display anything in Flightgear and I met the following error:

Could not find at least one of the following objects for animation: 
'AirlineSign'

Same problem with the model from fgdata git and terrasync.

Don't know where it comes, I'm not really an expert on it.

Cheers,

 Julien

Le 26/08/2012 03:19, A Person a écrit :
 Martin,

 I can assure you that I do care. Over the past several months, life
 has been really occupying me and I have not had much time to check
 email or keep up with the FlightGear mailing list. Sorry for missing
 your messages; the only reason I was able to catch this one was
 because a friend on IRC informed me of it.

 Feel free to discuss the problems with the jetways. I _did_ push a
 small maintenance commit before 2.8 was released; as of now, they
 should work fine.

 On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 12:13 AM, Martin Spott martin.sp...@mgras.net wrote:
 Hi, if anybody meets Ryan Miller, please let him know that there appear
 to be issues with the current state of the Jetways.
 I've tried to get in contact with him several times over the past
 months, but never got a response - I have no idea wether his EMail
 address changed or if he just doesn't care.

 Cheers,
  Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2012-08-27 Thread Ryan M
Martin Spott wrote:
 Anyhow, the reason why I had been writing EMail several times is the
 removal of the /sim/paths/use-custom-scenery-data clause.  This
 property has been removed, the state which had been activated by the
 flag is now permanent - see:

Ah, I missed that change. :-) It turns out it doesn't really make a
difference, at least for now. The Nasal file will search for the
models in the $FG_SCENERY directory if this (now-removed) property is
turned on; otherwise it will search in $FG_ROOT (which is now in-sync
with the master object repository). Obviously this does create dead
code. I'll revise it soon.

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 2:51 AM, Julien Nguyen jngu...@etu.emse.fr wrote:
 Hi Ryan,

 When I wanted to create some thumbnails for the models in
 scenemodels.com, every models named generic.airline.***.xml doesn't
 display anything in Flightgear and I met the following error:

 Could not find at least one of the following objects for animation:
 'AirlineSign'

 Same problem with the model from fgdata git and terrasync.

 Don't know where it comes, I'm not really an expert on it.

 Cheers,

  Julien


Hello Julien,

Those files are dummy models; they serve no purpose whatsoever
except to specify the texture paths for the different airlines in the
jetway models. Trying to load them as full models will cause
FlightGear to not find a model, and- you guessed it- not find this
mythical AirlineSign object. ;-)

I'll admit it is an odd setup, and probably one that deserves a
rethink in the future. I'm considering a partial rewrite of my Nasal
files during the FG 3.0.0 development cycle, so I'll definitely take a
look here.

~Ryan

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2012-08-25 Thread A Person
Martin,

I can assure you that I do care. Over the past several months, life
has been really occupying me and I have not had much time to check
email or keep up with the FlightGear mailing list. Sorry for missing
your messages; the only reason I was able to catch this one was
because a friend on IRC informed me of it.

Feel free to discuss the problems with the jetways. I _did_ push a
small maintenance commit before 2.8 was released; as of now, they
should work fine.

On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 12:13 AM, Martin Spott martin.sp...@mgras.net wrote:
 Hi, if anybody meets Ryan Miller, please let him know that there appear
 to be issues with the current state of the Jetways.
 I've tried to get in contact with him several times over the past
 months, but never got a response - I have no idea wether his EMail
 address changed or if he just doesn't care.

 Cheers,
 Martin.
 --
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2012-08-23 Thread Martin Spott
Hi, if anybody meets Ryan Miller, please let him know that there appear
to be issues with the current state of the Jetways.
I've tried to get in contact with him several times over the past
months, but never got a response - I have no idea wether his EMail
address changed or if he just doesn't care.

Cheers,
Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-06-08 Thread Ryan M
I ran some tests yesterday about the possibility of using static jetways
as placeholders. At KSFO, with animated jetways disabled and no dynamic
jetway models at all, FPS was at about 32-33 on my system. With animated
jetways, it plummeted to 15-16. When I used
$FG_ROOT/Models/Airport/jetway.xml as a place holder, FPS slightly
increased to 22-23. My conclusion is that this really doesn't offer any
benefit, and frankly, competing sims don't have such placeholder
jetways either.

I've filed a new request at Gitorious here:
https://gitorious.org/fg/fgdata/merge_requests/98 . A list of
improvements can be found in the description.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-06-06 Thread Vivian Meazza
Durk Talsma wrote

 
 On 05 Jun 2011, at 20:13, Ryan M wrote:
 
  On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 16:40 +0200, Durk Talsma wrote:
  Hi All,
 
  After having discussed this issue with Martin privately, we have come
 to the conclusion that it is in the best interest of FlightGear to back
 out parts of this commit, and wait for an improved version. I had accepted
 the merge request, after I had concluded that Martin's original objections
 had been resolved, but that appears not to be the case.
 
  Very well. Should I still attempt my proposed amendments?
 
 
 Yes please. As indicated, I like the idea, and my impression is that the
 the general consensus is like that. That said, we are uncomfortable with
 some aspects of the current implementation. So, please consider the
 removal temporary until we had ironed out these issue.
 

Couple of points - did we leave the menu item behind in Environment?

And that doesn't seem to be a very good home for it - it's not weather or
anything like Environment. Would AI be better? (when we restore it).

Vivian 



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-06-06 Thread Roland Häder
Hello,

On Mon, 2011-06-06 at 14:01 +0100, Vivian Meazza wrote:
 Couple of points - did we leave the menu item behind in Environment?
 
 And that doesn't seem to be a very good home for it - it's not weather or
 anything like Environment. Would AI be better? (when we restore it).
Or how about a jetways_demo.xml file in AI/ directory? Then it can be
enabled if someone wants them. If people have weak GPU/CPU they can then
easily disable the whole jetways-subsystem by just leaving out the
_demo.xml file in their configuration.

Or isn't that so easy? And are static placeholders (non-animated
dummies) possible for people with weak GPU/CPU?

And for my side, I have experienced no FPS drop (MSI nvidia GeForce 9500
GT 512 MB, Intel Quad-Core 2.5 GHz; multi-threading is enabled in
configuration).

Regards,
Roland



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-06-06 Thread Durk Talsma

On 06 Jun 2011, at 15:01, Vivian Meazza wrote:

 
 Couple of points - did we leave the menu item behind in Environment?

Are you sure it's still there? I just checked in my local copy and cant find a 
menu item related to the animated jetway system.

 
 And that doesn't seem to be a very good home for it - it's not weather or
 anything like Environment. Would AI be better? (when we restore it).

Yes, I agree. 

(on a side note: I just realize that Natural Environment is really what we're 
refering to in the Environment menu, whereas Artificial environment seems 
to cover what we have in the AI menus)

Cheers,
Durk
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-06-06 Thread Vivian Meazza
Durk Talsma wrote

 On 06 Jun 2011, at 15:01, Vivian Meazza wrote:
 
 
  Couple of points - did we leave the menu item behind in Environment?
 
 Are you sure it's still there? I just checked in my local copy and cant
 find a menu item related to the animated jetway system.
 
 
  And that doesn't seem to be a very good home for it - it's not weather
 or
  anything like Environment. Would AI be better? (when we restore it).
 
 Yes, I agree.
 
 (on a side note: I just realize that Natural Environment is really what
 we're refering to in the Environment menu, whereas Artificial
 environment seems to cover what we have in the AI menus)
 

I managed to pull only part of the update late last night - gone now after
another pull.

Thanks

Vivian



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-06-05 Thread Ryan M
On Fri, 2011-06-03 at 12:38 +, Martin Spott wrote:
 I'm feeling slightly uneasy with the current state because people don't
 get any jetways at all if they disable the flag in order to preserve
 performance.  Personally I'd prefer a solution which keeps static
 jetways and just disables the animation if people feel like the need
 to.

That sounds like a good idea. But it _might_ still cause FPS impacts.
Will have to run some tests later.

On Fri, 2011-06-03 at 12:38 +, Martin Spott wrote:
 While I'm at it, I'd like to point to another, presumably more severe
 issue: The elevation of every of the animated jetways is hardcoded into
 the respective 'ICAO.jetway.xml' files.  Now take into account that
 ground elevation is subject to change with almost _every_ rebuild of
 the corresponding region and airfield surface 
 From my perspective this calls for a more considerate solution.

The only solution I can think of is to remove the elevation setting and
use Nasal to calculate the elevation for each jetway's
longitude/latitude. The only problem with that is that the calculations
would take into account the terminal buildings, which would cause
jetways appearing on top of the terminal roofs.

...however, I just had another idea. Making the elevations _relative_ to
the terrain instead of absolute. That means the current definition files
will have to be changed, but I can automate that with a script easily
enough. That also means I have to update my FG 2.0.0 version.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-06-05 Thread Durk Talsma
Hi All,

After having discussed this issue with Martin privately, we have come to the 
conclusion that it is in the best interest of FlightGear to back out parts of 
this commit, and wait for an improved version. I had accepted the merge 
request, after I had concluded that Martin's original objections had been 
resolved, but that appears not to be the case. 

I want to stress that we do see merit to the current patch, but note that there 
currently are still technical issues that need to be addressed before it is 
ready. To be more specific, the parts that I will remove are the Models/Jetways 
directory as well as the nasal files related to this system. I'm happy to 
accept a merge request where the issues addressed by Martin have been addressed.

Cheers,
Durk

On 05 Jun 2011, at 08:04, Ryan M wrote:

 On Fri, 2011-06-03 at 12:38 +, Martin Spott wrote:
 I'm feeling slightly uneasy with the current state because people don't
 get any jetways at all if they disable the flag in order to preserve
 performance.  Personally I'd prefer a solution which keeps static
 jetways and just disables the animation if people feel like the need
 to.
 
 That sounds like a good idea. But it _might_ still cause FPS impacts.
 Will have to run some tests later.
 
 On Fri, 2011-06-03 at 12:38 +, Martin Spott wrote:
 While I'm at it, I'd like to point to another, presumably more severe
 issue: The elevation of every of the animated jetways is hardcoded into
 the respective 'ICAO.jetway.xml' files.  Now take into account that
 ground elevation is subject to change with almost _every_ rebuild of
 the corresponding region and airfield surface 
 From my perspective this calls for a more considerate solution.
 
 The only solution I can think of is to remove the elevation setting and
 use Nasal to calculate the elevation for each jetway's
 longitude/latitude. The only problem with that is that the calculations
 would take into account the terminal buildings, which would cause
 jetways appearing on top of the terminal roofs.
 
 ...however, I just had another idea. Making the elevations _relative_ to
 the terrain instead of absolute. That means the current definition files
 will have to be changed, but I can automate that with a script easily
 enough. That also means I have to update my FG 2.0.0 version.
 
 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-06-05 Thread Ryan M
On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 16:40 +0200, Durk Talsma wrote:
 Hi All,
 
 After having discussed this issue with Martin privately, we have come to the 
 conclusion that it is in the best interest of FlightGear to back out parts of 
 this commit, and wait for an improved version. I had accepted the merge 
 request, after I had concluded that Martin's original objections had been 
 resolved, but that appears not to be the case. 

Very well. Should I still attempt my proposed amendments?


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-06-05 Thread Durk Talsma

On 05 Jun 2011, at 20:13, Ryan M wrote:

 On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 16:40 +0200, Durk Talsma wrote:
 Hi All,
 
 After having discussed this issue with Martin privately, we have come to the 
 conclusion that it is in the best interest of FlightGear to back out parts 
 of this commit, and wait for an improved version. I had accepted the merge 
 request, after I had concluded that Martin's original objections had been 
 resolved, but that appears not to be the case. 
 
 Very well. Should I still attempt my proposed amendments?
 

Yes please. As indicated, I like the idea, and my impression is that the the 
general consensus is like that. That said, we are uncomfortable with some 
aspects of the current implementation. So, please consider the removal 
temporary until we had ironed out these issue.

Cheers,
Durk
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-06-05 Thread Martin Spott
Durk Talsma wrote:
 On 05 Jun 2011, at 20:13, Ryan M wrote:

 Very well. Should I still attempt my proposed amendments?
 
 
 Yes please.

Adding to Durks statement(s), I'd like to express my particular
appreciation to the idea of applying relative elevations - this
approach is quite similar to the elevation offset we're maintaining
for certain shared object positions in the Scenemodels repository.

Cheers,
Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-06-03 Thread Martin Spott
Ryan M wrote:

 * Jetways are disabled by default due to noticeable FPS impacts.

I'm feeling slightly uneasy with the current state because people don't
get any jetways at all if they disable the flag in order to preserve
performance.  Personally I'd prefer a solution which keeps static
jetways and just disables the animation if people feel like the need
to.

While I'm at it, I'd like to point to another, presumably more severe
issue: The elevation of every of the animated jetways is hardcoded into
the respective 'ICAO.jetway.xml' files.  Now take into account that
ground elevation is subject to change with almost _every_ rebuild of
the corresponding region and airfield surface 
From my perspective this calls for a more considerate solution.

For the static scenery models at Scenemodels we're having a stupid
but pretty functional and robust procedure to adjust the elevation of
every model to the current World Scenery.  This doesn't work for the
way how elevation is being stored in the jetway XML files.

 Currently the Models/Airport/Jetway folder is still in the commit. I can
 remove it if this is inappropriate.

Indeed, this would have been better 

Cheers,
Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-05-27 Thread Roland Häder
Hi,

On Fri, 2011-05-27 at 16:14 +0200, Christian Schmitt wrote:
 Correct, and I already added some to Terminal 2. Those are however not yet 
 sent to the scenery DB. I'll do that shortly when I checked that they work 
 with the new version, too.
Looks like no one has pushed it, it is still sitting there and waiting:
https://gitorious.org/fg/fgdata/merge_requests/95

As I can see so far, the commits only affect AI aircrafts, so when I
want to see these new jetways in action, I need to turn on AI traffic or
use aircrafts that support jetways, right?

 
 Chris
Roland



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-05-27 Thread Arnt Karlsen
On Fri, 27 May 2011 19:18:15 +0200, Roland wrote in message 
1306516695.30365.32.camel@quix0r:

 Hi,
 
 On Fri, 2011-05-27 at 16:14 +0200, Christian Schmitt wrote:
  Correct, and I already added some to Terminal 2. Those are however
  not yet sent to the scenery DB. I'll do that shortly when I checked
  that they work with the new version, too.
 Looks like no one has pushed it, it is still sitting there and
 waiting: https://gitorious.org/fg/fgdata/merge_requests/95
 
 As I can see so far, the commits only affect AI aircrafts, so when I
 want to see these new jetways in action, I need to turn on AI traffic
 or use aircrafts that support jetways, right?

..by jetways, you mean these bridges?: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_bridge

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-05-27 Thread Roland Häder
 ..by jetways, you mean these bridges?: 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_bridge
 
Yes, exactly. :) Would be cool to have them working in FGFS.

Roland



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-05-27 Thread Arnt Karlsen
On Fri, 27 May 2011 20:45:00 +0200, Roland wrote in message 
1306521900.30365.49.camel@quix0r:

  ..by jetways, you mean these bridges?: 
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_bridge
  
 Yes, exactly. :) Would be cool to have them working in FGFS.

..right, then we'll want those fancy gate parking lights too, 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_Docking_Guidance_System
and guys waving light sticks in the mean time. ;o)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_marshalling

..don't we simulate these?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_light_signals

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  best case, worst case, and just in case.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-05-27 Thread Ryan M
On Fri, 2011-05-27 at 21:09 +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
 ..right, then we'll want those fancy gate parking lights too, 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_Docking_Guidance_System

Theoretically that's perfectly possible by piggybacking on my system,
and we even have the X-plane model required, but I don't feel like
implementing it. :)


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-05-27 Thread Vivian Meazza
Ryan M wrote

 -Original Message-
 From: [mailto:tpbspamm...@gmail.com]
 Sent: 27 May 2011 20:14
 To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways
 
 On Fri, 2011-05-27 at 21:09 +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
  ..right, then we'll want those fancy gate parking lights too,
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_Docking_Guidance_System
 
 Theoretically that's perfectly possible by piggybacking on my system,
 and we even have the X-plane model required, but I don't feel like
 implementing it. :)
 

I think we have a marshaller in at least one aircraft model.

Vivian 



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-05-26 Thread Ryan M
Well I did some major changes and squashed it all down to one commit-
however, things got pretty messy. Redid the merge request, here's the
new URL:
https://gitorious.org/fg/fgdata/merge_requests/95

Changes from last time:
* Now uses James' new io.read_airport_properties() function, so it is
much more compatible with Terrasync. The $FG_ROOT/Airports/Jetways
folder has been removed in favor of
$FG_SCENERY/Airports/I/C/A/ICAO.jetways.xml.

* Jetway models are now loaded from scenery directories and
$FG_ROOT/Models; scenery has the higher priority.

* A new checkbox has been added to the rendering options dialog.

* Jetways are disabled by default due to noticeable FPS impacts.

Currently the Models/Airport/Jetway folder is still in the commit. I can
remove it if this is inappropriate.

Feel free to look it over, and hopefully this commit is ready for
merging.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-05-26 Thread Roland Häder
Hi,

do you have some screenshots available or can you make some? And maybe
you can add some to EDDF? In reality, EDDF have jetways. :) I have been
there already by myself (RailFly ticket to RPLL).

Regards,
Roland

On Thu, 2011-05-26 at 18:21 -0700, Ryan M wrote:
 Well I did some major changes and squashed it all down to one commit-
 however, things got pretty messy. Redid the merge request, here's the
 new URL:
 https://gitorious.org/fg/fgdata/merge_requests/95



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-05-23 Thread James Turner

On 22 May 2011, at 22:11, Martin Spott wrote:

 Now, since the most recent version of the ground network files are
 distributed via TerraSync, I'd propose to place the jetway files in the
 same directories. This would indeed require your scripts to look into
 the custom scenery directories as well - which would be the preferred
 option, because, as already mentioned, I'd like to reduce the
 dependency of Scenery from the Base Package.
 
 The preferred way of referencing custom scenery data would be to have
 some sort of variable as a reference for all subsystems/routines which
 would refer to these directories, but I have to admit that I'm not
 entirely certain about the current state.  I'd say this is something
 worth checking before we proceed.

I talked to Ryan on IRC last night, and we discussed this. I've some local mods 
to commit+test that basically do exactly what is described above; they allow 
Nasal (or really, the loadxml command) to hook into my existing 'find a file 
for an airport, in the scenery locations' code we use for the other 'airport 
scenery data' files.

I'll hopefully commit this tomorrow, then Ryan can test, and then hopefully 
jetways can live in the airport scenery data happily.

James


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-05-23 Thread Ryan M
On Mon, 2011-05-23 at 22:04 +0100, James Turner wrote:
  I talked to Ryan on IRC last night, and we discussed this. I've some local
  mods to commit+test that basically do exactly what is described above; they
  allow Nasal (or really, the loadxml command) to hook into my existing
  'find a file for an airport, in the scenery locations' code we use for
  the other 'airport scenery data' files.
 
  I'll hopefully commit this tomorrow, then Ryan can test, and then
  hopefully jetways can live in the airport scenery data happily.

Excellent- thanks James. :) While you're at it, could you also publish
the $FG_SCENERY paths to the property tree? (Don't use my patch, it
turned out to cause a build error (which shows how good of a programmer
I am), and the pastebin link is probably expired now. ;) )

The jetways make a very noticeable impact on FlightGear's frame rate,
particularly at large airports such as KSFO, where up to 120 models
could be loaded at a time. Perhaps they should be disabled by default.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-05-23 Thread Martin Spott
James Turner wrote:

 I talked to Ryan on IRC last night, and we discussed this. I've some
 local mods to commit+test that basically do exactly what is described
 above; they allow Nasal (or really, the loadxml command) to hook into
 my existing 'find a file for an airport, in the scenery locations'
 code we use for the other 'airport scenery data' files.
 
 I'll hopefully commit this tomorrow, then Ryan can test, and then
 hopefully jetways can live in the airport scenery data happily.

Hey, _this_ sounds like a nice plan !

Thanks,
Martin.
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[Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-05-22 Thread Ryan M
I apologize for not raising this discussion *before* I filed that
request, as I should have.

From the comments on http://gitorious.org/merge_requests/91:
 In the past we've been struggling for more than one and a half release
 cycles in order to separate Scenery-specific stuff from the Base
 Package and to draw a clear line. Now you’re doing almost exactly the
 contrary: Introducing new dependencies between Scenery and Base
 Package by putting airport specific stuff into the FlightGear
 ‘Airports/’– as well as into the shared models directory.
 This stuff belongs into the Scenery directory structure.

I can see why introducing a dependency could cause some problems.
However, due to the technical details of the new jetways, it is not
possible to integrate them with Terrasync/Shared models as it was
previously. This is because the jetways are specified in an XML file for
each airport that a Nasal script parses and loads models for via
fgcommand(add-model, ...). That's how each jetway knows its
independent position and its relative location to the aircraft door,
unlike a static model in scenery where this is not possible.

Additionally, the 3d models have to be stored somewhere. By my logic,
that should be in Models/Aiport, hence the new directory. I intended
this to not be synced with Terrasync (syncing won't have an effect
anyway, since ATM the script always loads models from the main models
directory).

It would be possible to revert back to specifying jetway models in an
STG file. However, that would cause a loss of features including the
ability for the jetway to 'know' the position of the aircraft, and gate
numbers and airline signs specific to each jetway- all of which are very
well-received by end-users and I spent hours programming. Only the
former can be worked around (and not very well, at that).

Perhaps the directory structure needs reorganization. I would consider
making a new directory under $FG_ROOT, perhaps Jetways/, but that just
seems like a waste to me.

Again, sorry for not raising this issue earlier.

Ryan


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-05-22 Thread Martin Spott
Hi Ryan, please excuse the rather brief comment. I had been short in
time and was about to leave - actually I ended up being too late for
the final rehearsal before a symphony concert this morning   :-((

Your submission is touching various places, therefore please expect
various people (maintainers) to have their specific opinion on this.
For example I could envision that those who are keeping an eye on the
AI aicraft collection might appreciate the submission to be split into
specific parts - as do I for the Scenery-related files.

Ryan M wrote:

 However, due to the technical details of the new jetways, it is not
 possible to integrate them with Terrasync/Shared models as it was
 previously. This is because the jetways are specified in an XML file for
 each airport that a Nasal script parses and loads models for via
 fgcommand(add-model, ...). That's how each jetway knows its
 independent position and its relative location to the aircraft door,
 unlike a static model in scenery where this is not possible.

I'm not generally against adding specific per-airport jetway
definitions into FlightGear as a whole, but I think we should talk
about the details of the where.  Look, we're already distributing
airport-specific ground networks, why not accompagny the jetway
positions alongside the other airport-specific stuff instead of
creating yet another, new directory.

 Additionally, the 3d models have to be stored somewhere. By my logic,
 that should be in Models/Aiport, hence the new directory.

A good idea in general, but, while you are at it, please read:

  
http://mapserver.flightgear.org/git/gitweb.pl?p=fgdata;a=blob;f=Models/00README.CONTRIBUTE

 [...] I intended
 this to not be synced with Terrasync (syncing won't have an effect
 anyway, since ATM the script always loads models from the main models
 directory).

I'm a bit uncertain if I understand correctly - would you bother
rephrasing in different words ?

Cheers,
Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgdata merge request 91:Animated Jetways

2011-05-22 Thread Martin Spott
Ryan M wrote:
 On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 16:59 +, Martin Spott wrote:

 [...] Look, we're already distributing
 airport-specific ground networks, why not accompagny the jetway
 positions alongside the other airport-specific stuff instead of
 creating yet another, new directory.
 
 Ah, I forgot about the ground network directories. I propose the
 definitions be moved to
 $FG_ROOT/AI/Airports/ICAO/jetways.xml

I see, we're getting closer  :-)
Now, since the most recent version of the ground network files are
distributed via TerraSync, I'd propose to place the jetway files in the
same directories. This would indeed require your scripts to look into
the custom scenery directories as well - which would be the preferred
option, because, as already mentioned, I'd like to reduce the
dependency of Scenery from the Base Package.

The preferred way of referencing custom scenery data would be to have
some sort of variable as a reference for all subsystems/routines which
would refer to these directories, but I have to admit that I'm not
entirely certain about the current state.  I'd say this is something
worth checking before we proceed.

Cheers,
Martin.
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