Re: [Flightgear-devel] groundcache, solid, water, why not a property ?
On ven 7 septembre 2007, you wrote: On ven 7 septembre 2007, Melchior FRANZ wrote: * Jon S. Berndt -- 9/7/2007 1:33 AM: [ground material aware gear handling in JSBSim] Well, if I was the one doing the ridiculing, I apologize. No need to, you weren't, IIRC. :-) But the ridiculing became known to the IRC participants, and this caused very upset (and slightliy exaggerated :-) reactions there. Unfortunately, someone posted the IRC protocol to the JSBSim list to pour more oil into the fire. Ever since then people on IRC were cautious when the spy was online. (And I apologize for my part in the harsh reaction, which was not meant for publication but only to release some pressure. :-) m. (a.k.a. cptf) Yes i was the SPY IN others situations you did not mind yourself to report on that List the IRC content (cf 737) Regards -- Gérard - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] groundcache, solid, water, why not a property ?
On ven 7 septembre 2007, Melchior FRANZ wrote: * Jon S. Berndt -- 9/7/2007 1:33 AM: [ground material aware gear handling in JSBSim] Well, if I was the one doing the ridiculing, I apologize. No need to, you weren't, IIRC. :-) But the ridiculing became known to the IRC participants, and this caused very upset (and slightliy exaggerated :-) reactions there. Unfortunately, someone posted the IRC protocol to the JSBSim list to pour more oil into the fire. Ever since then people on IRC were cautious when the spy was online. (And I apologize for my part in the harsh reaction, which was not meant for publication but only to release some pressure. :-) m. (a.k.a. cptf) Yes i was the SPY Regards -- Gérard - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] groundcache, solid, water, why not a property ?
* Jon S. Berndt -- 9/7/2007 1:33 AM: [ground material aware gear handling in JSBSim] Well, if I was the one doing the ridiculing, I apologize. No need to, you weren't, IIRC. :-) But the ridiculing became known to the IRC participants, and this caused very upset (and slightliy exaggerated :-) reactions there. Unfortunately, someone posted the IRC protocol to the JSBSim list to pour more oil into the fire. Ever since then people on IRC were cautious when the spy was online. (And I apologize for my part in the harsh reaction, which was not meant for publication but only to release some pressure. :-) m. (a.k.a. cptf) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] groundcache, solid, water, why not a property ?
* gh.robin -- 9/6/2007 12:05 AM: We can with an external property scenery material type to process correctly the aircraft reactions according to the type. And which material should this report? The one under the left wing tip, or the one 150 m behind the tail, or what?! FlightGear has no clue about what is where on the aircraft. This is entirely an FDM thing. FlightGear only knows about the reference point (/position/latitude-deg /position/longitude-deg), and the material under that is utterly pointless and does in no way help to get proper gear behavior in JSBSim. It's beyond me why this is so hard to understand. The reference point doesn't interact with the terrain, so it doesn't need to care about the material below it. Only gear and contact points need to care, as well as other objects that intersect with the terrain. And Yes without any Property (which would be the best way) the Nasal solution is better than nothing Which is a good thing, because it's all that FlightGear will offer, as far as I'm concerned. Unless someone has a really compelling reason why we should *hack* around that JSBSim problem. m. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] groundcache, solid, water, why not a property ?
Melchior FRANZ But that's IMHO the only way that makes sense. And JSBSim (unlike YASim) currently lacks other gear features, anyway. Per-gear-material-info can easily be implemented when the JSBSim gear gets friction/solidity/etc. awareness. The the whole world is a runway behavior is fun, but ... :-} m. I remember suggesting to add something like this years ago, because it's not hard to do. It's always been a question of how to get that information to the gear model. But, just so I am clear on one thing, the terrain material is a property of a polygon, correct? There is no granularity smaller than that? As far as other gear features, what would those be? Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] groundcache, solid, water, why not a property ?
On jeu 6 septembre 2007, Jon S. Berndt wrote: Melchior FRANZ But that's IMHO the only way that makes sense. And JSBSim (unlike YASim) currently lacks other gear features, anyway. Per-gear-material-info can easily be implemented when the JSBSim gear gets friction/solidity/etc. awareness. The the whole world is a runway behavior is fun, but ... :-} m. I remember suggesting to add something like this years ago, because it's not hard to do. It's always been a question of how to get that information to the gear model. But, just so I am clear on one thing, the terrain material is a property of a polygon, correct? There is no granularity smaller than that? As far as other gear features, what would those be? Jon Hello, Jon, Sure that update, would give, a better generic solution. However regarding the diff in between water and solid ground, the existing source gives everything we need to simulate that diff =1==Within Flight control system (FCS) a combination of =switches = cmd position norm with contact point related (gear/gear/wow) AND =2== Within Aerodynamics a creation of Functions Can answer the request I hope to give a demonstration of it with the Catalina. As soon as possible, the most difficult to me, is to write the Nasal script which will create the property which is needed , i mean the Type of Material. JSBSim answer most of the specific requests, without any nasal scripts, i have included in it a lot of features: differential braking (Corsair F4U-7) , differential throttle (Catalina , P-38), chute command (BlackBird), water loading (Catalina), electric components and control, some useful variable data for animations..and soon again the AAR refueling. The existing flexibility gives the tools needed, we could ask more and more, but like it was said on an other topic Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. -- Gérard - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] groundcache, solid, water, why not a property ?
As far as other gear features, what would those be? - not allowing to land/taxi on water (except water planes) - gear friction taken from the ground material - considering ground bumpiness (small on concrete, high in the forest) You can check how Maik JUSTUS implemented it for YASim. It's quite cool to feel the difference when taxiing an aircraft from the runway onto grass. I remember, though, that this feature was ridiculed on the JSBSim list, so I don't hold my breath ... :-} m. Well, if I was the one doing the ridiculing, I apologize. It sounds like a decent enough idea to me now. Maybe I didn't have my meds that day. ;-) Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] groundcache, solid, water, why not a property ?
Hello, groundcache.cxx seems to be able to give the material information ( lines 234 and following), mainly solid or water. According to a recent talk on IRC, i dare that question: Why don't we have it given on the property tree ?, which could be very useful for animations (OSG particles, for instance) and mainly for any FDM. I know that we have it within Yasim, which use it for gear, but it is a closed solution. With a specific property we could have it fully opened. Regards -- Gérard - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] groundcache, solid, water, why not a property ?
* gh.robin -- 9/5/2007 4:15 PM:
groundcache.cxx seems to be able to give the material information
[...]
With a specific property we could have it fully opened.
Isn't the property tree, but might be useful nevertheless:
There's a Nasal function geodinfo() that returns material and
other properties for given lat/lon coordinates. If you really
need it in the tree (e.g. for XML animations), then you could write
a simple Nasal loop that copies it there in regular intervals.
var lat = getprop(/position/latitude-deg);
var lon = getprop(/position/longitude-deg);
var info = geodinfo(lat, lon);
if (info != nil) {
print(the terrain under the aircraft is at elevation , info[0], m);
if (info[1] != nil)
print(and it is , info[1].solid ? solid ground : covered by
water);
}
debug.dump(info);
# outputs
[ 106.9892101062052, { light_coverage : 0, bumpiness : 0.5999,
load_resistance : 1e+30,
solid : 0, names : [ Lake, Pond, Reservoir, Stream, Canal ],
friction_factor : 1,
rolling_friction : 1.5 } ]
see:
http://wiki.flightgear.org/flightgear_wiki/index.php?title=Nasal_scripting_language
m.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] groundcache, solid, water, why not a property ?
On mer 5 septembre 2007, Melchior FRANZ wrote:
* gh.robin -- 9/5/2007 4:15 PM:
groundcache.cxx seems to be able to give the material information
[...]
With a specific property we could have it fully opened.
Isn't the property tree, but might be useful nevertheless:
There's a Nasal function geodinfo() that returns material and
other properties for given lat/lon coordinates. If you really
need it in the tree (e.g. for XML animations), then you could write
a simple Nasal loop that copies it there in regular intervals.
var lat = getprop(/position/latitude-deg);
var lon = getprop(/position/longitude-deg);
var info = geodinfo(lat, lon);
if (info != nil) {
print(the terrain under the aircraft is at elevation , info[0],
m); if (info[1] != nil)
print(and it is , info[1].solid ? solid ground : covered by
water); }
debug.dump(info);
# outputs
[ 106.9892101062052, { light_coverage : 0, bumpiness :
0.5999, load_resistance : 1e+30, solid : 0, names : [ Lake,
Pond, Reservoir, Stream, Canal ], friction_factor : 1,
rolling_friction : 1.5 } ]
see:
http://wiki.flightgear.org/flightgear_wiki/index.php?title=Nasal_scripting_
language
m.
Oh, yes
thanks Melchior
That solution is useful, i was just looking for a lazy boy way, without
Nasal :)
Regards
--
Gérard
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] groundcache, solid, water, why not a property ?
* Melchior FRANZ -- 9/5/2007 5:15 PM: If you really need it in the tree (e.g. for XML animations), then [...] Oh, and ai submodel impacts report the material in the property tree already, along with other impact data. m. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] groundcache, solid, water, why not a property ?
On mer 5 septembre 2007, Melchior FRANZ wrote: * Melchior FRANZ -- 9/5/2007 5:15 PM: If you really need it in the tree (e.g. for XML animations), then [...] Oh, and ai submodel impacts report the material in the property tree already, along with other impact data. m. hmm, may be i missed something , because i find nothing regarding impacts in the submodel property tree. Anyhow, these data would be useful, out of any submodel definitions. Regards -- Gérard - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] groundcache, solid, water, why not a property ?
* gh.robin -- 9/5/2007 5:43 PM: i find nothing regarding impacts in the submodel property tree. See $FG_ROOT/Docs/README.submodels and the seahawk for an example. If impacts are enabled in the submodel XML config file (impact), then every impact generates a dir entry in /ai/models/ with all the impact data (lat/lon/elev/solid/etc. The submodel can directly access the properties, as that dir is its base dir. So you can keep a parachuter from falling through the ground etc. And /ai/models/model-impact is set to the path of the last impact, so you can attach a listener to it and read out the data from any Nasal context. You can also set individual listener report nodes for each submodel in the submodel XML config (impact-reports; see the bo105 for an example, where a model is placed at impact points). m. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] groundcache, solid, water, why not a property ?
On mer 5 septembre 2007, Melchior FRANZ wrote: * gh.robin -- 9/5/2007 5:43 PM: i find nothing regarding impacts in the submodel property tree. See $FG_ROOT/Docs/README.submodels and the seahawk for an example. If impacts are enabled in the submodel XML config file (impact), then every impact generates a dir entry in /ai/models/ with all the impact data (lat/lon/elev/solid/etc. The submodel can directly access the properties, as that dir is its base dir. So you can keep a parachuter from falling through the ground etc. And /ai/models/model-impact is set to the path of the last impact, so you can attach a listener to it and read out the data from any Nasal context. You can also set individual listener report nodes for each submodel in the submodel XML config (impact-reports; see the bo105 for an example, where a model is placed at impact points). m. ok, now i understand, but unfortunately that is only available with submodel, which does not answer the request regarding the model itself. And only the Nasal way can answer Regards -- Gérard - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] groundcache, solid, water, why not a property ?
* gh.robin -- 9/5/2007 6:16 PM:
unfortunately that is only available with submodel,
which does not answer the request regarding the model itself.
Yes. But it's information that needs to be available per gear,
not for /position/{latitude,longitude}-deg. And YASim provides
this information, while JSBSim doesn't. It has to be added to
the JSBSim/fgfs interface.
m.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] groundcache, solid, water, why not a property ?
On mer 5 septembre 2007, Melchior FRANZ wrote:
* gh.robin -- 9/5/2007 6:16 PM:
unfortunately that is only available with submodel,
which does not answer the request regarding the model itself.
Yes. But it's information that needs to be available per gear,
not for /position/{latitude,longitude}-deg. And YASim provides
this information, while JSBSim doesn't. It has to be added to
the JSBSim/fgfs interface.
m.
to me,
It is not necessary to include it within JSBSim
The process within JSBSim is not the same than YAsim
The existing JSBsim is able to take it without any new specific modifications.
With the FCS features we can customize it.
We only need to have from an external property
--
Gérard
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] groundcache, solid, water, why not a property ?
* gh.robin -- 9/5/2007 6:37 PM: * On mer 5 septembre 2007, Melchior FRANZ wrote: But it's information that needs to be available per gear, [...] it has to be added to the JSBSim/fgfs interface. to me, It is not necessary to include it within JSBSim But that's IMHO the only way that makes sense. And JSBSim (unlike YASim) currently lacks other gear features, anyway. Per-gear-material-info can easily be implemented when the JSBSim gear gets friction/solidity/etc. awareness. The the whole world is a runway behavior is fun, but ... :-} In the meantime the Nasal solution is good enough. IMNSHO. m. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] groundcache, solid, water, why not a property ?
On mer 5 septembre 2007, Melchior FRANZ wrote: * gh.robin -- 9/5/2007 6:37 PM: * On mer 5 septembre 2007, Melchior FRANZ wrote: But it's information that needs to be available per gear, [...] it has to be added to the JSBSim/fgfs interface. to me, It is not necessary to include it within JSBSim But that's IMHO the only way that makes sense. And JSBSim (unlike YASim) currently lacks other gear features, anyway. Per-gear-material-info can easily be implemented when the JSBSim gear gets friction/solidity/etc. awareness. The the whole world is a runway behavior is fun, but ... :-} In the meantime the Nasal solution is good enough. IMNSHO. m. The power and flexibility within JSBsim gives facilities to include extra feature without any update/modification of the existing sources (in spite of a lack with carrier funct which will be solved). Any modifications within jsbsim / gears with material type related would be redundant. with existing features. i see only one improvement which could be done = to be able to process separately each gear components (left gear , right , rear gear ) We can with an external property scenery material type to process correctly the aircraft reactions according to the material type. Yes without any Property (which would be the best way) the Nasal solution is better than nothing Regards -- Gérard - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] groundcache, solid, water, why not a property ?
On mer 5 septembre 2007, Melchior FRANZ wrote: * gh.robin -- 9/5/2007 6:37 PM: * On mer 5 septembre 2007, Melchior FRANZ wrote: But it's information that needs to be available per gear, [...] it has to be added to the JSBSim/fgfs interface. to me, It is not necessary to include it within JSBSim But that's IMHO the only way that makes sense. And JSBSim (unlike YASim) currently lacks other gear features, anyway. Per-gear-material-info can easily be implemented when the JSBSim gear gets friction/solidity/etc. awareness. The the whole world is a runway behavior is fun, but ... :-} In the meantime the Nasal solution is good enough. IMNSHO. m. The power and flexibility within JSBsim gives facilities to include extra feature without any update/modification of the existing sources (in spite of a lack with carrier funct which will be solved). Any modifications within jsbsim / gears with material type related would be redundant. with existing features. i see only one improvement which could be done = to be able to process separately each gear components (left gear , right , rear gear ) We can with an external property scenery material type to process correctly the aircraft reactions according to the type. And Yes without any Property (which would be the best way) the Nasal solution is better than nothing Regards -- Gérard - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
