Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 5:00 PM, Torsten Dreyer wrote: I don't know if it's somehow related, but the 3d clouds don't seem to drift with the wind, either. Flying with crosswind with a magnitude as your airspeed let you fly toward the clouds at a 45 degree angle. My setup was: Wind from 1...@100, flying heading 270 with 100KTS. The clouds came in from 45degrees out of the right hand side. Torsten That's just a missing feature/bug in the 3d clouds, and I don't think it's related to the particles problem. I haven't managed to find the time to fix it, and I'm unlikely to in the near future (baby due end of August), so if anyone is looking for some work... -Stuart -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
On the topic of the partical system and the wind vector not being correct.
I have a patch here that seems to be working, and it would be great if a
few other people could test/review it to see if it makes sense. This is the
first time I've dove into the particle system code and the environment
manager has always been a bit of a beast. There's probably a better way to
do this, but as I worked my way through the logic, this is what I ended up
with that made sense to me.
SIMGEAR PATCH:
diff --git a/simgear/scene/model/particles.cxx
b/simgear/scene/model/particles.cxx
index 0803790..acac7df 100644
--- a/simgear/scene/model/particles.cxx
+++ b/simgear/scene/model/particles.cxx
@@ -62,11 +62,13 @@ void GlobalParticleCallback::operator()(osg::Node* node,
osg::NodeVisitor* nv)
osg::Matrix om(toOsg(q));
osg::Vec3 v(0,0,9.81);
gravity = om.preMult(v);
+// NOTE: THIS WIND COMPUTATION DOESN'T SEEM TO AFFECT PARTICLES
const osg::Vec3 zUpWind = Particles::getWindVector();
-osg::Vec3 w(zUpWind.y(), zUpWind.x(), - zUpWind.z());
+osg::Vec3 w(zUpWind.y(), zUpWind.x(), -zUpWind.z());
wind = om.preMult(w);
-//SG_LOG(SG_GENERAL, SG_ALERT, wind
vector:w[0],w[1],w[2]\n);
+// SG_LOG(SG_GENERAL, SG_ALERT,
+//wind vector: w[0] , w[1] , w[2]);
}
diff --git a/simgear/scene/model/particles.hxx
b/simgear/scene/model/particles.hxx
index 6dda343..3fd3ccb 100644
--- a/simgear/scene/model/particles.hxx
+++ b/simgear/scene/model/particles.hxx
@@ -257,6 +257,14 @@ public:
* magnitude is the velocity in meters per second.
*/
static void setWindVector(const osg::Vec3 wind) { _wind = wind; }
+static void setWindFrom(const double from_deg, const double speed_kt) {
+ double map_deg = 0.0 - from_deg;
+ double map_rad = map_deg * SG_DEGREES_TO_RADIANS;
+ double speed_mps = speed_kt * SG_KT_TO_MPS;
+ _wind[0] = cos(map_rad) * speed_mps;
+ _wind[1] = sin(map_rad) * speed_mps;
+ _wind[2] = 0.0;
+}
static const osg::Vec3 getWindVector() { return _wind; }
protected:
float shooterExtraRange;
FLIGHTGEAR PATCH:
diff --git a/src/Environment/environment_mgr.cxx
b/src/Environment/environment_mgr.cxx
index 15268f9..17d1e36 100644
--- a/src/Environment/environment_mgr.cxx
+++ b/src/Environment/environment_mgr.cxx
@@ -295,7 +295,10 @@ FGEnvironmentMgr::update (double dt)
osg::Vec3 windVec(-_environment-get_wind_from_north_fps(),
-_environment-get_wind_from_east_fps(),
_environment-get_wind_from_down_fps());
- simgear::Particles::setWindVector(windVec * SG_FEET_TO_METER);
+ // simgear::Particles::setWindVector(windVec * SG_FEET_TO_METER);
+ double wind_true_deg = _environment-get_wind_from_heading_deg();
+ simgear::Particles::setWindFrom( wind_true_deg,
+ _environment-get_wind_speed_kt() );
}
FGEnvironment
Curt.
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 4:25 AM, Stuart Buchanan wrote:
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 5:00 PM, Torsten Dreyer wrote:
I don't know if it's somehow related, but the 3d clouds don't seem to
drift
with the wind, either. Flying with crosswind with a magnitude as your
airspeed let you fly toward the clouds at a 45 degree angle. My setup
was:
Wind from 1...@100, flying heading 270 with 100KTS. The clouds came in
from
45degrees out of the right hand side.
Torsten
That's just a missing feature/bug in the 3d clouds, and I don't think
it's related
to the particles problem. I haven't managed to find the time to fix
it, and I'm unlikely
to in the near future (baby due end of August), so if anyone is
looking for some work...
-Stuart
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
Replying to my own message ... I see a couple simple code cleanups in my
first patch so don't worry too much about that. I've been flying tight
level circles in a variety of wind conditions (up to 70 kts) with smoke
turned on and when I come around and start the circle again, I've been
flying into the tail of my own smoke now no matter what the wind is doing.
So I think that's how it's supposed to work. It looks *much* better.
Curt.
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Curtis Olson wrote:
On the topic of the partical system and the wind vector not being correct.
I have a patch here that seems to be working, and it would be great if a
few other people could test/review it to see if it makes sense. This is the
first time I've dove into the particle system code and the environment
manager has always been a bit of a beast. There's probably a better way to
do this, but as I worked my way through the logic, this is what I ended up
with that made sense to me.
SIMGEAR PATCH:
diff --git a/simgear/scene/model/particles.cxx
b/simgear/scene/model/particles.cxx
index 0803790..acac7df 100644
--- a/simgear/scene/model/particles.cxx
+++ b/simgear/scene/model/particles.cxx
@@ -62,11 +62,13 @@ void GlobalParticleCallback::operator()(osg::Node*
node, osg::NodeVisitor* nv)
osg::Matrix om(toOsg(q));
osg::Vec3 v(0,0,9.81);
gravity = om.preMult(v);
+// NOTE: THIS WIND COMPUTATION DOESN'T SEEM TO AFFECT PARTICLES
const osg::Vec3 zUpWind = Particles::getWindVector();
-osg::Vec3 w(zUpWind.y(), zUpWind.x(), - zUpWind.z());
+osg::Vec3 w(zUpWind.y(), zUpWind.x(), -zUpWind.z());
wind = om.preMult(w);
-//SG_LOG(SG_GENERAL, SG_ALERT, wind
vector:w[0],w[1],w[2]\n);
+// SG_LOG(SG_GENERAL, SG_ALERT,
+//wind vector: w[0] , w[1] , w[2]);
}
diff --git a/simgear/scene/model/particles.hxx
b/simgear/scene/model/particles.hxx
index 6dda343..3fd3ccb 100644
--- a/simgear/scene/model/particles.hxx
+++ b/simgear/scene/model/particles.hxx
@@ -257,6 +257,14 @@ public:
* magnitude is the velocity in meters per second.
*/
static void setWindVector(const osg::Vec3 wind) { _wind = wind; }
+static void setWindFrom(const double from_deg, const double speed_kt)
{
+ double map_deg = 0.0 - from_deg;
+ double map_rad = map_deg * SG_DEGREES_TO_RADIANS;
+ double speed_mps = speed_kt * SG_KT_TO_MPS;
+ _wind[0] = cos(map_rad) * speed_mps;
+ _wind[1] = sin(map_rad) * speed_mps;
+ _wind[2] = 0.0;
+}
static const osg::Vec3 getWindVector() { return _wind; }
protected:
float shooterExtraRange;
FLIGHTGEAR PATCH:
diff --git a/src/Environment/environment_mgr.cxx
b/src/Environment/environment_mgr.cxx
index 15268f9..17d1e36 100644
--- a/src/Environment/environment_mgr.cxx
+++ b/src/Environment/environment_mgr.cxx
@@ -295,7 +295,10 @@ FGEnvironmentMgr::update (double dt)
osg::Vec3 windVec(-_environment-get_wind_from_north_fps(),
-_environment-get_wind_from_east_fps(),
_environment-get_wind_from_down_fps());
- simgear::Particles::setWindVector(windVec * SG_FEET_TO_METER);
+ // simgear::Particles::setWindVector(windVec * SG_FEET_TO_METER);
+ double wind_true_deg = _environment-get_wind_from_heading_deg();
+ simgear::Particles::setWindFrom( wind_true_deg,
+ _environment-get_wind_speed_kt() );
}
FGEnvironment
Curt.
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 4:25 AM, Stuart Buchanan wrote:
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 5:00 PM, Torsten Dreyer wrote:
I don't know if it's somehow related, but the 3d clouds don't seem to
drift
with the wind, either. Flying with crosswind with a magnitude as your
airspeed let you fly toward the clouds at a 45 degree angle. My setup
was:
Wind from 1...@100, flying heading 270 with 100KTS. The clouds came in
from
45degrees out of the right hand side.
Torsten
That's just a missing feature/bug in the 3d clouds, and I don't think
it's related
to the particles problem. I haven't managed to find the time to fix
it, and I'm unlikely
to in the near future (baby due end of August), so if anyone is
looking for some work...
-Stuart
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
Hi Curt, I have checked the submodel wind. The calculations appear to be correct, and submodels seem to move in the direction indicated by the windsock. So if there's an error there it's at least consistent. Using submodels as contrails (which doesn't give a particularly good appearance) they do seem to move as expected, that is to say, directly along the axis of the aircraft. HTH Vivian -Original Message- From: Vivian Meazza [mailto:vivian.mea...@lineone.net] Sent: 20 July 2010 08:51 To: 'FlightGear developers discussions' Subject: RE: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly.. Hi Curt, I'm working on implementing contrails, using both particles and submodels, and I'm seeing the same bug. I also see that particles do not move in the direction indicated by the windsocks. I have long since reported that there seems to be an error in the particle wind - I think that the error is in OSG. IIRC there was some misunderstanding at one point if wind direction was from or to! I hope that the submodel wind is correct, but I will look at the code again. Vivian -Original Message- From: Curtis Olson [mailto:curtol...@gmail.com] Sent: 17 July 2010 19:17 To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft notworking correctly.. Hi Torsten, While we are on the subject, I have two dumb, but related questions ... 1. I do some UAV work and at times collect some real world flight test data. It would be really nice to be able to capture the current metar data off the internet at the time of the flight, save it into some simple form along with the flight data, and then later when I replay the flight data, use the saved metar data for the weather conditions. Is there a way to do this now? Does it work? In the past when I've tried to enter metar strings into the Environment-Weather Scenario dialog box, I haven't been able to get anything to work ... and I'd like to automate this at least through command line options if it's possible? Here's an example video replaying a real flight in FlightGear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toR9UO_Dafc You might notice that partway through the video I turn the smoke emitter on. This is one reason I'd like to have relatively closely matching weather to the original flight conditions ... so that the smoke drift is in the correct direction relative to the crab angle and everything is mostly self consistent. (obviously it won't be perfect if the closest weather reporting station is several miles away and the weather report was from an hour ago, but it's better than nothing ...) 2. This brings me to my second question which might be a bug report? It's my understanding that an aircraft is flying relative to it's local air mass. So if I emit smoke and the smoke drifts in the same air mass, then from the perspective of the aircraft looking backwards, the smoke should come straight out of the tail in line with the aircraft (even if it's crabbing relative to the ground.) What I see instead is that the smoke also drifts relative to the path of the aircraft in the air mass, and this can't possibly be right. The amount of error seems to scale in proportion to how strong the winds are. I think there must be some sort of units conversion or scaling problem (?) when the local wind vector is applied to submodels and particles? Is this issue within your domain as the weather master? Thanks! Curt. On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Torsten Dreyer wrote: Not the best quality but readable, hopefully those will demonstrate the problems pretty clearly. http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmburbach/sets/72157624393619399/ I'm also unsure why you bring up altitude above ground, as winds aloft are stated above sea level and in true headings are they not? Congratulations! You found a - probably long standing - bug! The environment interpolation did not work above the second layer due to a bug probably introduced by myself some long time ago. Thanks for reporting and the excellent test case with the screenshots. BTW: you don't have to type in your environment setup at every program start, just use the attached file and start fgfs --config=path/to/aloft.xml Please check and report if the issue is gone with the latest git pull. Torsten -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
Curt, A further update - here is the error illustrated: ftp://abbeytheatre2.org.uk:2121/flightgear/Particles/particle-wind.jpg The red spheres are submodels with wind activated. I would say that they are reacting as expected. The contrail consists of particles with wind activated. The wind is either being applied in the wrong direction, or the particles are in the wrong frame of reference, or possibly there is no wind applied at all. Whatever the reason, there is demonstrably a bug somewhere in particles. Vivian -Original Message- From: Vivian Meazza [mailto:vivian.mea...@lineone.net] Sent: 20 July 2010 09:41 To: 'vivian.mea...@lineone.net' Subject: RE: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly.. Hi Curt, I have checked the submodel wind. The calculations appear to be correct, and submodels seem to move in the direction indicated by the windsock. So if there's an error there it's at least consistent. Using submodels as contrails (which doesn't give a particularly good appearance) they do seem to move as expected, that is to say, directly along the axis of the aircraft. HTH Vivian -Original Message- From: Vivian Meazza [mailto:vivian.mea...@lineone.net] Sent: 20 July 2010 08:51 To: 'FlightGear developers discussions' Subject: RE: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly.. Hi Curt, I'm working on implementing contrails, using both particles and submodels, and I'm seeing the same bug. I also see that particles do not move in the direction indicated by the windsocks. I have long since reported that there seems to be an error in the particle wind - I think that the error is in OSG. IIRC there was some misunderstanding at one point if wind direction was from or to! I hope that the submodel wind is correct, but I will look at the code again. Vivian -Original Message- From: Curtis Olson [mailto:curtol...@gmail.com] Sent: 17 July 2010 19:17 To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft notworking correctly.. Hi Torsten, While we are on the subject, I have two dumb, but related questions ... 1. I do some UAV work and at times collect some real world flight test data. It would be really nice to be able to capture the current metar data off the internet at the time of the flight, save it into some simple form along with the flight data, and then later when I replay the flight data, use the saved metar data for the weather conditions. Is there a way to do this now? Does it work? In the past when I've tried to enter metar strings into the Environment-Weather Scenario dialog box, I haven't been able to get anything to work ... and I'd like to automate this at least through command line options if it's possible? Here's an example video replaying a real flight in FlightGear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toR9UO_Dafc You might notice that partway through the video I turn the smoke emitter on. This is one reason I'd like to have relatively closely matching weather to the original flight conditions ... so that the smoke drift is in the correct direction relative to the crab angle and everything is mostly self consistent. (obviously it won't be perfect if the closest weather reporting station is several miles away and the weather report was from an hour ago, but it's better than nothing ...) 2. This brings me to my second question which might be a bug report? It's my understanding that an aircraft is flying relative to it's local air mass. So if I emit smoke and the smoke drifts in the same air mass, then from the perspective of the aircraft looking backwards, the smoke should come straight out of the tail in line with the aircraft (even if it's crabbing relative to the ground.) What I see instead is that the smoke also drifts relative to the path of the aircraft in the air mass, and this can't possibly be right. The amount of error seems to scale in proportion to how strong the winds are. I think there must be some sort of units conversion or scaling problem (?) when the local wind vector is applied to submodels and particles? Is this issue within your domain as the weather master? Thanks! Curt. On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Torsten Dreyer wrote: Not the best quality but readable, hopefully those will demonstrate the problems pretty clearly. http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmburbach/sets/72157624393619399/ I'm also unsure why you bring up altitude above ground, as winds aloft are stated above sea level and in true headings are they not? Congratulations! You found a - probably long standing - bug! The environment interpolation did not work above the second layer due to a bug probably introduced by myself some long time ago. Thanks for reporting and the excellent test case with the screenshots. BTW: you don't have to type in your
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 3:54 AM, Vivian Meazza wrote: Curt, A further update – here is the error illustrated: ftp://abbeytheatre2.org.uk:2121/flightgear/Particles/particle-wind.jpg The red spheres are submodels with wind activated. I would say that they are reacting as expected. The contrail consists of particles with wind activated. The wind is either being applied in the wrong direction, or the particles are in the wrong frame of reference, or possibly there is no wind applied at all. Whatever the reason, there is demonstrably a bug somewhere in particles. Hi Vivian, Thanks for checking out the submodels. Your image illustrates the problem really well. It sounds like this could very well be an issue in translating coordinate frames, or possibly it's a kts. to mps conversion issue? I guess I need to go hunt around and see if I can find where this is in the code. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
Hi Curt, and Torsten
My initial investigations have turned up this in environment_mgr.cxx :
osg::Vec3 windVec(-_environment-get_wind_from_north_fps(),
-_environment-get_wind_from_east_fps(),
_environment-get_wind_from_down_fps());
simgear::Particles::setWindVector(windVec * SG_FEET_TO_METER);
and this in particle.hxx
/**
* Set and get the wind vector for particles in the
* atmosphere. This vector is in the Z-up Y-north frame, and the
* magnitude is the velocity in meters per second.
*/
static void setWindVector(const osg::Vec3 wind) { _wind = wind; }
so it looks as if one or the other might be in error. I've tried
exchanging the x and y elements of the vector. It might be a bit better, but
it's still different to the submodels. Looks like the bug is more than this
apparent error.
Vivian
-Original Message-
From: Torsten Dreyer [mailto:tors...@t3r.de]
Sent: 21 July 2010 17:00
To: FlightGear developers discussions
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not
working correctly..
Am 21.07.10 17:15, schrieb Curtis Olson:
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Curtis Olson wrote:
Hi Vivian,
Thanks for checking out the submodels. Your image illustrates the problem
really well.
It sounds like this could very well be an issue in translating coordinate
frames, or possibly it's a kts. to mps conversion issue? I guess I need to
go hunt around and see if I can find where this is in the code.
Just to follow up my own message here. I setup the Rascal 110 which flies
slow and can emit smoke. I set the weather for stormy monday which puts
the wind at 70 kts.
What I am observing is that the smoke particles are flowing directly north.
There doesn't seem to be any east component to the smoke particle movement?
That's strange because I've verified that the wind velocity vector is being
computed correctly and sent to the particle system.
There is an #ifdef in particle.cxx ... #ifdef OSG_PARTICLE_FIX, I wonder if
that's somehow related. It get's defined #if SG_OSG_VERSION = 27004
earlier in particles.cxx
Hmmm, could we be dealing with some sort of OSG bug? Or some difference in
behavior between OSG versions? The OSG_PARTICLE_FIX code is substantially
more complicated than without, but the way the #ifdef structure is setup, it
implies that OSG particles were *broken* in v2.7.4 and the fix applies to
any versions after that? Is that the case???
I don't know if it's somehow related, but the 3d clouds don't seem to drift
with the wind, either. Flying with crosswind with a magnitude as your
airspeed let you fly toward the clouds at a 45 degree angle. My setup was:
Wind from 1...@100, flying heading 270 with 100KTS. The clouds came in from
45degrees out of the right hand side.
Torsten
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
Hi Curt, I'm working on implementing contrails, using both particles and submodels, and I'm seeing the same bug. I also see that particles do not move in the direction indicated by the windsocks. I have long since reported that there seems to be an error in the particle wind - I think that the error is in OSG. IIRC there was some misunderstanding at one point if wind direction was from or to! I hope that the submodel wind is correct, but I will look at the code again. Vivian -Original Message- From: Curtis Olson [mailto:curtol...@gmail.com] Sent: 17 July 2010 19:17 To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft notworking correctly.. Hi Torsten, While we are on the subject, I have two dumb, but related questions ... 1. I do some UAV work and at times collect some real world flight test data. It would be really nice to be able to capture the current metar data off the internet at the time of the flight, save it into some simple form along with the flight data, and then later when I replay the flight data, use the saved metar data for the weather conditions. Is there a way to do this now? Does it work? In the past when I've tried to enter metar strings into the Environment-Weather Scenario dialog box, I haven't been able to get anything to work ... and I'd like to automate this at least through command line options if it's possible? Here's an example video replaying a real flight in FlightGear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toR9UO_Dafc You might notice that partway through the video I turn the smoke emitter on. This is one reason I'd like to have relatively closely matching weather to the original flight conditions ... so that the smoke drift is in the correct direction relative to the crab angle and everything is mostly self consistent. (obviously it won't be perfect if the closest weather reporting station is several miles away and the weather report was from an hour ago, but it's better than nothing ...) 2. This brings me to my second question which might be a bug report? It's my understanding that an aircraft is flying relative to it's local air mass. So if I emit smoke and the smoke drifts in the same air mass, then from the perspective of the aircraft looking backwards, the smoke should come straight out of the tail in line with the aircraft (even if it's crabbing relative to the ground.) What I see instead is that the smoke also drifts relative to the path of the aircraft in the air mass, and this can't possibly be right. The amount of error seems to scale in proportion to how strong the winds are. I think there must be some sort of units conversion or scaling problem (?) when the local wind vector is applied to submodels and particles? Is this issue within your domain as the weather master? Thanks! Curt. On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Torsten Dreyer wrote: Not the best quality but readable, hopefully those will demonstrate the problems pretty clearly. http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmburbach/sets/72157624393619399/ I'm also unsure why you bring up altitude above ground, as winds aloft are stated above sea level and in true headings are they not? Congratulations! You found a - probably long standing - bug! The environment interpolation did not work above the second layer due to a bug probably introduced by myself some long time ago. Thanks for reporting and the excellent test case with the screenshots. BTW: you don't have to type in your environment setup at every program start, just use the attached file and start fgfs --config=path/to/aloft.xml Please check and report if the issue is gone with the latest git pull. Torsten -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
For the time being, entering temperature into the dialog box is broken. The only way to set a temperature is by setting /environment/temperature-sea- level-degc which calculates the temperature at altitude based on ICAO standard atmosphere. That's a little disappointing. Hopefully a better way to do things can be found as from what I can see the calculated temperatures are nowhere close to actual aloft data. Anyway, thanks a bunch for working on this, weather is a very important part of aviation and flight planning so anything that can be fixed or improved is always good. OK - a boring evening at a business hotel while being at an out-of-town job provided some time for bug-fixing. After all the temperature/dewpoint issue was not that complicated and should be fixed now. Please check out latest sources and check if I have overlooked something else or broke something new ;-) Torsten -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
On 19 Jul 2010, at 01:47, Jacob Burbach wrote: On a side note...is there a way to retrieve a list of airports within a certain distance of a position from nasal? Trivial from C++, unfortunately tricky from Nasal right now. This needs an extension or alternative to airportinfo(), which allows the 'range' parameter to be tuned. How urgent is the need? James -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
On Mon, 2010-07-19 at 08:47 +0100, James Turner wrote: On 19 Jul 2010, at 01:47, Jacob Burbach wrote: On a side note...is there a way to retrieve a list of airports within a certain distance of a position from nasal? Trivial from C++, unfortunately tricky from Nasal right now. This needs an extension or alternative to airportinfo(), which allows the 'range' parameter to be tuned. How urgent is the need? James In the long term, I'd like to see being able to also get FIXES, VOR and NDB information from Nasal based on a range (and possibly; range and heading), that could be quite useful for the increasing number of glass cockpits I think. If anyone is thinking of writing such a Nasal extension, then please also give thought to this as well. S. -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel ** This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain privileged information or confidential information or both. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it and notify the sender. ** -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 3:47 AM, James Turner ja...@bugless.co.uk wrote: On 19 Jul 2010, at 01:47, Jacob Burbach wrote: On a side note...is there a way to retrieve a list of airports within a certain distance of a position from nasal? Trivial from C++, unfortunately tricky from Nasal right now. This needs an extension or alternative to airportinfo(), which allows the 'range' parameter to be tuned. How urgent is the need? James It's not very urgent for me personally as what I'm doing can be done a different way, but it could be quite useful in a number of situations though. -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
Ok, quick test with a new pull and it seems like heading and speeds are working for the layers now. The temperatures don't seem to be taking though, same setup as previous and I was below zero celcius before reaching 9000 feet and already nearly 9 below celcius at 12000 feet. Not sure about other settings, dewpoint, turbulence, etc, didn't play with those yet. I did notice altimeter wasn't coinciding with the input valuesthough to be honest I'm not sure I fully understand how the altimeter values are supposed work over altitude, temperature, etc changes...in flightgear or real life. Hmm - the temperature thing is a tricky one. There were some updates to the temperature/density calculations some time ago, so setting temperature at altitude don't give the expected result anymore. I'll think about it, but it will take some time to come up with a reasonable solution. For the time being, entering temperature into the dialog box is broken. The only way to set a temperature is by setting /environment/temperature-sea- level-degc which calculates the temperature at altitude based on ICAO standard atmosphere. Torsten -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
For the time being, entering temperature into the dialog box is broken. The only way to set a temperature is by setting /environment/temperature-sea- level-degc which calculates the temperature at altitude based on ICAO standard atmosphere. That's a little disappointing. Hopefully a better way to do things can be found as from what I can see the calculated temperatures are nowhere close to actual aloft data. Anyway, thanks a bunch for working on this, weather is a very important part of aviation and flight planning so anything that can be fixed or improved is always good. On a side note...is there a way to retrieve a list of airports within a certain distance of a position from nasal? cheers! -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
Hi Torsten, While we are on the subject, I have two dumb, but related questions ... 1. I do some UAV work and at times collect some real world flight test data. It would be really nice to be able to capture the current metar data off the internet at the time of the flight, save it into some simple form along with the flight data, and then later when I replay the flight data, use the saved metar data for the weather conditions. Is there a way to do this now? Does it work? In the past when I've tried to enter metar strings into the Environment-Weather Scenario dialog box, I haven't been able to get anything to work ... and I'd like to automate this at least through command line options if it's possible? Here's an example video replaying a real flight in FlightGear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toR9UO_Dafc You might notice that partway through the video I turn the smoke emitter on. This is one reason I'd like to have relatively closely matching weather to the original flight conditions ... so that the smoke drift is in the correct direction relative to the crab angle and everything is mostly self consistent. (obviously it won't be perfect if the closest weather reporting station is several miles away and the weather report was from an hour ago, but it's better than nothing ...) 2. This brings me to my second question which might be a bug report? It's my understanding that an aircraft is flying relative to it's local air mass. So if I emit smoke and the smoke drifts in the same air mass, then from the perspective of the aircraft looking backwards, the smoke should come straight out of the tail in line with the aircraft (even if it's crabbing relative to the ground.) What I see instead is that the smoke also drifts relative to the path of the aircraft in the air mass, and this can't possibly be right. The amount of error seems to scale in proportion to how strong the winds are. I think there must be some sort of units conversion or scaling problem (?) when the local wind vector is applied to submodels and particles? Is this issue within your domain as the weather master? Thanks! Curt. On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Torsten Dreyer wrote: Not the best quality but readable, hopefully those will demonstrate the problems pretty clearly. http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmburbach/sets/72157624393619399/ I'm also unsure why you bring up altitude above ground, as winds aloft are stated above sea level and in true headings are they not? Congratulations! You found a - probably long standing - bug! The environment interpolation did not work above the second layer due to a bug probably introduced by myself some long time ago. Thanks for reporting and the excellent test case with the screenshots. BTW: you don't have to type in your environment setup at every program start, just use the attached file and start fgfs --config=path/to/aloft.xml Please check and report if the issue is gone with the latest git pull. Torsten -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
Hi all, Here's an example video replaying a real flight in FlightGear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toR9UO_Dafc a little OT but how do I capture those videos? I have a Quad-Core, 2.5 GHz each CPU and a 9500 GT with 512 MB. Roland signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 1:30 PM, Roland Haeder r.hae...@gmx.de wrote: Hi all, Here's an example video replaying a real flight in FlightGear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toR9UO_Dafc a little OT but how do I capture those videos? I have a Quad-Core, 2.5 GHz each CPU and a 9500 GT with 512 MB. Super low tech method ... I mount my digital camera (canon) to a cheap tripod, line it up, try and get it to focus and then press record ... If I'm going for a natural camera shake effect I might skip the tripod. If I'm going for a, hey I just happened to see this cool thing and pulled out my cell phone effect I might pull out my cell phone ... but it takes really really crappy over compressed movies (and I think a big part of it's compression scheme is to drop tons of frames.) I've played around with ffmpeg and other desktop capture tools, but I must not have a very powerful machine and all these software techniques kill my frame rates. Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
Hi Curtis! Thanks for the quick reply. I also such low tech device, a tripod. Okay, that was to easy. :) Roland signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
Hi Curt, without having tested this, it might work like this: Either tie a nasal listener to /environment/metar/data, which contains the raw metar text, and write it's content using nasal to a file. The io module should be able to handle this. Or create a generic protocol writing out /environment/metar/data to a file (this writes the data even if it does not change, however no nasal is required). Playback should work by feeding metar data into the same property either with nasal or the generic protocol. There should be a command line switch -- metar=something to feed an initial metar, but that does not change over time. So, the short answer to your question is: yes it should work with some tweaking. What you observe with drift of smoke, probably the particles emitted from an aircraft use the wind on the ground and not at altitude? I havn't looked at the particle code for ages to tell for sure. I hope this answers your question at least a bit Torsten Hi Torsten, While we are on the subject, I have two dumb, but related questions ... 1. I do some UAV work and at times collect some real world flight test data. It would be really nice to be able to capture the current metar data off the internet at the time of the flight, save it into some simple form along with the flight data, and then later when I replay the flight data, use the saved metar data for the weather conditions. Is there a way to do this now? Does it work? In the past when I've tried to enter metar strings into the Environment-Weather Scenario dialog box, I haven't been able to get anything to work ... and I'd like to automate this at least through command line options if it's possible? Here's an example video replaying a real flight in FlightGear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toR9UO_Dafc You might notice that partway through the video I turn the smoke emitter on. This is one reason I'd like to have relatively closely matching weather to the original flight conditions ... so that the smoke drift is in the correct direction relative to the crab angle and everything is mostly self consistent. (obviously it won't be perfect if the closest weather reporting station is several miles away and the weather report was from an hour ago, but it's better than nothing ...) 2. This brings me to my second question which might be a bug report? It's my understanding that an aircraft is flying relative to it's local air mass. So if I emit smoke and the smoke drifts in the same air mass, then from the perspective of the aircraft looking backwards, the smoke should come straight out of the tail in line with the aircraft (even if it's crabbing relative to the ground.) What I see instead is that the smoke also drifts relative to the path of the aircraft in the air mass, and this can't possibly be right. The amount of error seems to scale in proportion to how strong the winds are. I think there must be some sort of units conversion or scaling problem (?) when the local wind vector is applied to submodels and particles? Is this issue within your domain as the weather master? Thanks! Curt. On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Torsten Dreyer wrote: Not the best quality but readable, hopefully those will demonstrate the problems pretty clearly. http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmburbach/sets/72157624393619399/ I'm also unsure why you bring up altitude above ground, as winds aloft are stated above sea level and in true headings are they not? Congratulations! You found a - probably long standing - bug! The environment interpolation did not work above the second layer due to a bug probably introduced by myself some long time ago. Thanks for reporting and the excellent test case with the screenshots. BTW: you don't have to type in your environment setup at every program start, just use the attached file and start fgfs --config=path/to/aloft.xml Please check and report if the issue is gone with the latest git pull. Torsten - - This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Curtis Olson curtol...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Torsten, While we are on the subject, I have two dumb, but related questions ... 1. I do some UAV work and at times collect some real world flight test data. It would be really nice to be able to capture the current metar data off the internet at the time of the flight, save it into some simple form along with the flight data, and then later when I replay the flight data, use the saved metar data for the weather conditions. Is there a way to do this now? Does it work? In the past when I've tried to enter metar strings into the Environment-Weather Scenario dialog box, I haven't been able to get anything to work ... and I'd like to automate this at least through command line options if it's possible? Are you maybe looking for the nice metarproxy script (in the utils dir) written by Melchior? ;) -- Csaba/Jester -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
Ok, quick test with a new pull and it seems like heading and speeds are working for the layers now. The temperatures don't seem to be taking though, same setup as previous and I was below zero celcius before reaching 9000 feet and already nearly 9 below celcius at 12000 feet. Not sure about other settings, dewpoint, turbulence, etc, didn't play with those yet. I did notice altimeter wasn't coinciding with the input valuesthough to be honest I'm not sure I fully understand how the altimeter values are supposed work over altitude, temperature, etc changes...in flightgear or real life. cheers -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
Not the best quality but readable, hopefully those will demonstrate the problems pretty clearly. http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmburbach/sets/72157624393619399/ I'm also unsure why you bring up altitude above ground, as winds aloft are stated above sea level and in true headings are they not? cheers -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
Hi, I don't really know what to make of it...but hope solution can be found as I've started to grow tired of real-weather-fetch and would like to be able to set up more realistic (and less annoying) weather conditions, for longer distance cross country trips especially. Somewhat loosely related: Since I am just in the process of adding wind and cloud drift to the local weather package (which would in essence bypass the interpolation done by the standard menu), I am curious to get a few opinions besides my own: What level of detail in the windfield would you like to see implemented, and on what level of detail would you like to be able to configure it? I'm asking because: In principle, modelling a mean airmass movement corresponding to the large-scale spiralling into low pressure areas, differential in altitude, with a moderate level of local deviation from that (i.e. a circular low altitude influx into a Cb cell with corresponding high altitude outflux) is not too difficult. Getting mountain winds at low altitude right is somewhat more of a challenge, I don't know yet if that can be done properly. However, if you have a 4-d windfield (wind direction and speed changing in space and time), to specify that in a configuration dialog would require you to specify O(100) numbers at the least - that's not really feasible, so the windfield would have to be generated automatically based on some rough user input. On the other hand, if you like a more simplified wind model (like in the current menu) it is possible to user-specify it completely. That's why I'd be interested what people who fly with offline weather (don't seem to be that many apart from myself...) would like to use. Cheers, * Thorsten P.S. @All: I assume my proposal for a changed environment controller does not generate any excitement here on the list... So, I guess I'll take the discussion back to the forum then - it was worth a try here :-) -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
On 14 Jul 2010, at 07:14, thorsten.i.r...@jyu.fi wrote: * Thorsten P.S. @All: I assume my proposal for a changed environment controller does not generate any excitement here on the list... So, I guess I'll take the discussion back to the forum then - it was worth a try here :-) I really like the results of the local weather code - this isn't the place to generate much excitement :) My impression is, you need some help from someone who can hack the C++ environment code, to make the global weather code interact better with your local models, and unfortunately most people here are pretty busy. As always with FG, the current global environment code has many problems, but also works sufficiently for many people, so changes to it may provoke some complaints; anyone touching the C++ parts will need to show some improvements, but also that whatever use cases (sadly, all undefined) existing users have, continue to work. (I discovered this when I changed the GPS code around) Ideally we'd add sufficient hooks, to move some of the current environment code (possibly even including the metar fetch) to Nasal, and then the entire problem moves to the script domain. I suspect that means making a much more flexible Nasal interface than we currently have, however. James -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Torsten Dreyer tors...@t3r.de wrote: All I can say by now: it's most likely not a user error ;-) Or is it? My first check was with fdm=magic to easily climb to any desired altitude. This fdm does not update /position/altitude-agl-ft which is used to interpolate through the environment layers. So _my_ check was based on user error and I can't verify what you have reported, at least with a JSBSim aircraft, envirionment interpolation work well here. To proceed, could you please specify: which A/C (FDM) did you check with? which properties did you check and found indicating false values? Thanks, Torsten I've tried with numerous aircraft, both jsbsim and yasim...Lockheed1049H, pa22, velocity, and Tu154B to name a few. At first I noticed things not right when flying the Tu154B and just seeing the wind correction needle and ground speeds were not at all what I would expect them to be based off the winds aloft I had set up. I've since kept an eye on /environment/wind-speed-kt and /environment/wind-from-heading-deg when testing as well. I don't know if those are the best properties to look at, but they seem to be updated and interpolated when things are (at least partially) working. Besides the properties, just observing the incorrect ground speeds and course corrections compared to what is calculated for the winds I input is a give away something is not quite rightas well as nothing happening when I change the parameters in the gui as I mention before. I don't really know what to make of it...but hope solution can be found as I've started to grow tired of real-weather-fetch and would like to be able to set up more realistic (and less annoying) weather conditions, for longer distance cross country trips especially. Sorry, I can't verify what you are reporting. Please refer to this image: http://www.t3r.de/flightpics/fgfs-screen-008.jpg While climbing after takeoff, I saw the wind transition smoothly from 1...@3 to 1...@15 at 4500ft which is exactly interpolated between the values of aloft layer 1 and 2. The properties in the uppler left corner show /envirionment/wind-from-heading-deg /environment/wind-speed-kt /position/altitude-agl-ft Maybe I'm to blind to see what's wrong? Torsten -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
I seem to have a problem getting my weather conditions and winds aloft to behave correctly. I set weather scenario to disabled, input my weather and winds aloft data using the weather conditions dialog, but weather does not behave as input. The problem is especially apparent with winds aloft data, which does not pick up the winds aloft data correctly, and in many cases not at all. I input various wind directions, speeds, temperatures, etc for different altitudes (3000-15000ft in this case), yet when I climb to those altitudes and check the environment and other data I can see they are completely incorrect and not being honored at all. Entering the following for winds aloft for example: 15000ft -- 300 @ 16 12000ft -- 310 @ 14 9000ft -- 320 @ 12 6000ft -- 280 @ 10 3000ft -- 270 @ 9 I would expect if I am flying level at 12000ft for example, that I should encounter winds VERY close to 3...@14...yet I do not. Aloft layers seem to often not get picked up at all, or not picked up past the first or second aloft layer...becoming increasingly wrong the higher the altitude. Cruising at 12000ft example, changing the parameters for the 12000 layer has no effect at all, neither for surrounding layers 9000/15000...though sometimes changing the bottom layer (3000 in this case) does show immediate effect on aircraft...though the result is incorrect at 12000 obviously. I really don't see what I could be doing wrong, so one would have to think there is something very wrong in the environment code...? I get the same results in 2.0, cvs build (week or so before cvs death), and brand new up to date git builds. I have to confirm what you are reporting, I can't tell you what's wrong but I'll have a closer look. All I can say by now: it's most likely not a user error ;-) Torsten -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
All I can say by now: it's most likely not a user error ;-) Or is it? My first check was with fdm=magic to easily climb to any desired altitude. This fdm does not update /position/altitude-agl-ft which is used to interpolate through the environment layers. So _my_ check was based on user error and I can't verify what you have reported, at least with a JSBSim aircraft, envirionment interpolation work well here. To proceed, could you please specify: which A/C (FDM) did you check with? which properties did you check and found indicating false values? Thanks, Torsten -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Torsten Dreyer tors...@t3r.de wrote: All I can say by now: it's most likely not a user error ;-) Or is it? My first check was with fdm=magic to easily climb to any desired altitude. This fdm does not update /position/altitude-agl-ft which is used to interpolate through the environment layers. So _my_ check was based on user error and I can't verify what you have reported, at least with a JSBSim aircraft, envirionment interpolation work well here. To proceed, could you please specify: which A/C (FDM) did you check with? which properties did you check and found indicating false values? Thanks, Torsten I've tried with numerous aircraft, both jsbsim and yasim...Lockheed1049H, pa22, velocity, and Tu154B to name a few. At first I noticed things not right when flying the Tu154B and just seeing the wind correction needle and ground speeds were not at all what I would expect them to be based off the winds aloft I had set up. I've since kept an eye on /environment/wind-speed-kt and /environment/wind-from-heading-deg when testing as well. I don't know if those are the best properties to look at, but they seem to be updated and interpolated when things are (at least partially) working. Besides the properties, just observing the incorrect ground speeds and course corrections compared to what is calculated for the winds I input is a give away something is not quite rightas well as nothing happening when I change the parameters in the gui as I mention before. I don't really know what to make of it...but hope solution can be found as I've started to grow tired of real-weather-fetch and would like to be able to set up more realistic (and less annoying) weather conditions, for longer distance cross country trips especially. cheers! -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] weather conditions and winds aloft not working correctly..
I seem to have a problem getting my weather conditions and winds aloft to behave correctly. I set weather scenario to disabled, input my weather and winds aloft data using the weather conditions dialog, but weather does not behave as input. The problem is especially apparent with winds aloft data, which does not pick up the winds aloft data correctly, and in many cases not at all. I input various wind directions, speeds, temperatures, etc for different altitudes (3000-15000ft in this case), yet when I climb to those altitudes and check the environment and other data I can see they are completely incorrect and not being honored at all. Entering the following for winds aloft for example: 15000ft -- 300 @ 16 12000ft -- 310 @ 14 9000ft -- 320 @ 12 6000ft -- 280 @ 10 3000ft -- 270 @ 9 I would expect if I am flying level at 12000ft for example, that I should encounter winds VERY close to 3...@14...yet I do not. Aloft layers seem to often not get picked up at all, or not picked up past the first or second aloft layer...becoming increasingly wrong the higher the altitude. Cruising at 12000ft example, changing the parameters for the 12000 layer has no effect at all, neither for surrounding layers 9000/15000...though sometimes changing the bottom layer (3000 in this case) does show immediate effect on aircraft...though the result is incorrect at 12000 obviously. I really don't see what I could be doing wrong, so one would have to think there is something very wrong in the environment code...? I get the same results in 2.0, cvs build (week or so before cvs death), and brand new up to date git builds. cheers! -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
