Re: [Flightgear-devel] aircraft required to start

2005-01-21 Thread Frederic Bouvier
Stewart Andreason a écrit : It seems this aircraft is required to start FlightGear. fgfs WARNING: ssgLoadAC: Failed to open '/usr/local/share/FlightGear/data/Aircraft/pa28-161/Models/pa28-161.ac' for reading Abort This plane is required by the AI/ATC module and has been removed from the

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: FlightGear 0.9.8, Mac OS X build

2005-01-21 Thread Andrew Midosn
--- Andrew Midosn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I notice that no-one is assuming that this could have been an innocent mistake. I accept that it is unlikely, but it wouldn't be the first time that a file has been included in a software release in error. I would agree that it is entirely

Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 0.9.8, Mac OS X build

2005-01-21 Thread Christian Mayer
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Erik Hofman schrieb: Christian Mayer wrote: As religions differ greatly around the globe (even in the countries themselfes) there'll people who helped with their work that have their belive at least not represented (and probably even are

[Flightgear-devel] Cessna 172 problem in 9.8

2005-01-21 Thread Innis Cunningham
Hi All Could someone who uses FGRUN to start FG confirm that the 172 fullscreen hi res Cessna starts at night with the panel upside down and no scenery even if you have noon selected in FGRUN. Cheers Innis ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list

Re: [Flightgear-devel] aircraft required to start

2005-01-21 Thread Jim Wilson
Frederic Bouvier said: Stewart Andreason a écrit : It seems this aircraft is required to start FlightGear. fgfs WARNING: ssgLoadAC: Failed to open '/usr/local/share/FlightGear/data/Aircraft/pa28-161/Models/pa28-161.ac' for reading Abort This plane is required by the AI/ATC

Re: [Flightgear-devel] v1.0 musings (was: Aircraft included in basepackage)

2005-01-21 Thread Christian Mayer
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Giles Robertson schrieb: 1) Fgrun/fgfs. For the average windows user, this is *highly* counterintuitive. In so far as Windows has an overarching user interface and tool design philosophy, it's integration. The concept of a GUI that launches the

Re: [Flightgear-devel] v1.0 musings (was: Aircraft included in basepackage)

2005-01-21 Thread Erik Hofman
Christian Mayer wrote: The first point is argueable. But that we need a restart just to change planes is a big show stopper! It depends on the goals for 1.0. If you want a version that is easy to use for the end user then you might be right. If v1.0 is aimed for a completely working standalone

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 172 problem in 9.8

2005-01-21 Thread Erik Hofman
Innis Cunningham wrote: Hi All Could someone who uses FGRUN to start FG confirm that the 172 fullscreen hi res Cessna starts at night with the panel upside down and no scenery even if you have noon selected in FGRUN. The fullscreen Cessna is supposed to start without the scenery. I don't know why

Re: [Flightgear-devel] v1.0 musings

2005-01-21 Thread Christian Mayer
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Erik Hofman schrieb: Christian Mayer wrote: The first point is argueable. But that we need a restart just to change planes is a big show stopper! It depends on the goals for 1.0. If you want a version that is easy to use for the end user

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [OT] curve direction.

2005-01-21 Thread Thomas Förster
Am Donnerstag 20 Januar 2005 21:56 schrieb Curtis L. Olson: This is kind of off today's topic, but I have an unrelated question. Working in 2d space, given 3 points, I know how to compute a circle (center/radius) that passes through those three points. Now I need to compute the direction of

Re: [Flightgear-devel] aircraft required to start

2005-01-21 Thread Thomas Förster
Am Freitag 21 Januar 2005 08:59 schrieb Frederic Bouvier: Stewart Andreason a écrit : It seems this aircraft is required to start FlightGear. fgfs WARNING: ssgLoadAC: Failed to open '/usr/local/share/FlightGear/data/Aircraft/pa28-161/Models/pa28-161.ac' for reading Abort This

Re: [Flightgear-devel] aircraft required to start

2005-01-21 Thread David Luff
On 21/01/2005 at 10:05 Jim Wilson wrote: Frederic Bouvier said: Stewart Andreason a écrit : It seems this aircraft is required to start FlightGear. fgfs WARNING: ssgLoadAC: Failed to open '/usr/local/share/FlightGear/data/Aircraft/pa28-161/Models/pa28-161.ac' for reading

Re: [Flightgear-devel] v1.0 musings (was: Aircraft included in

2005-01-21 Thread Martin Spott
Giles Robertson wrote: 1) Fgrun/fgfs. For the average windows user, this is *highly* counterintuitive. In so far as Windows has an overarching user interface and tool design philosophy, it's integration. The concept of a GUI that launches the program doesn't make sense to them; they expect

Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 0.9.8, Mac OS X build

2005-01-21 Thread Martin Spott
Paul Surgeon wrote: A simple list of direct links will suffice in my opinion and be a lot easier to autogenerate from a script. I created my FTP mirror to comply with the directory structure of the primary FTP site, so I'm fine with such a list, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 172 problem in 9.8

2005-01-21 Thread Innis Cunningham
Erik Hofman writes Innis Cunningham wrote: Hi All Could someone who uses FGRUN to start FG confirm that the 172 fullscreen hi res Cessna starts at night with the panel upside down and no scenery even if you have noon selected in FGRUN. The fullscreen Cessna is supposed to start without the

[Flightgear-devel] fgrun improvements

2005-01-21 Thread Frederic Bouvier
To bring fgrun to 1.0 quality grade, and after receiving suggestions from Curt, I am now planning to add basic options to the wizard instead of keeping them hidden behind the Advanced button. Maybe by reducing the size of the command line textfield ( it could also be move to the Advanced section

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 172 problem in 9.8

2005-01-21 Thread Erik Hofman
Innis Cunningham wrote: Seeing this is probably the first aircraft a new user will try what a great advert.A panel that is upside down in the middle of the night with no engines running and no obvious way of getting them started. I mean if the idea is to discourage people from using FG I could not

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 172 problem in 9.8

2005-01-21 Thread Frederic Bouvier
Quoting Erik Hofman : Innis Cunningham wrote: Seeing this is probably the first aircraft a new user will try what a great advert.A panel that is upside down in the middle of the night with no engines running and no obvious way of getting them started. I mean if the idea is to discourage

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Aircraft downloads

2005-01-21 Thread Arnt Karlsen
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:27:42 +, Lee wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ..this looong post with unsnipped quotes is a FG licensing FAQ candidate, so I don't snip this time. On Thursday 20 January 2005 16:13, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 20:54:42 +, Lee wrote in message

Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgrun improvements

2005-01-21 Thread Martin Spott
Frederic Bouvier wrote: Comments welcome Great ideas, just one little concern: What measures are applied to identify which airports should show up in the selection list ? Consider a user has installed most of the world scenery, is FGrun then going to parse the whole scenery to see which

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Aircraft loading problem in 9.8

2005-01-21 Thread Curtis L. Olson
Innis, I had no problem loading the version Ampere sent me in v0.9.8. I did notice there was a large (and seemingly arbitrary) mix of file permission, capitalization, etc. I'm running linux. If you are running windows, perhaps there is a dos/unix line ending problem in one of the files?

Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgrun improvements

2005-01-21 Thread Frederic Bouvier
Quoting Martin Spott : Frederic Bouvier wrote: Comments welcome Great ideas, just one little concern: What measures are applied to identify which airports should show up in the selection list ? Consider a user has installed most of the world scenery, is FGrun then going to parse the

Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgrun improvements

2005-01-21 Thread David Luff
On 21/01/2005 at 13:16 Frederic Bouvier wrote: To bring fgrun to 1.0 quality grade, and after receiving suggestions from Curt, I am now planning to add basic options to the wizard instead of keeping them hidden behind the Advanced button. Maybe by reducing the size of the command line textfield

Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgrun improvements

2005-01-21 Thread Erik Hofman
Frederic Bouvier wrote: I forgot this one. It is not an improvement though, rather a fix ;-) The scenery scan is done every time and is very long although it is threaded and doesn't prevent you to launch flightgear. Curt suggested to show all the content of apt.dat.gz and check the availability

Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgrun improvements

2005-01-21 Thread Erik Hofman
Erik Hofman wrote: Now that we use apt.dat (X-Plane format) it would be possible to walk the list and get the lat/lon of the aircraft (first two parameters of Make that airport Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: FlightGear 0.9.8, Mac OS X build

2005-01-21 Thread Arnt Karlsen
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:35:37 -0600, Curtis wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: If people aren't satisfied with the ultimate resolution, then you are by all means free to create an alternative mac package to which I will freely link from the downloads page. ..I get the impression this is as

Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 0.9.8, Mac OS X build

2005-01-21 Thread Arnt Karlsen
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:08:16 + (UTC), Martin wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..hell no! Point these assholes to any good Islamic site to show'em how these Religious Righteous Spammers Errs as humanoids. You should not generalize, ..hell yeah, you're

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 172 problem in 9.8

2005-01-21 Thread Innis Cunningham
Erik Hofman writes Innis Cunningham wrote: Seeing this is probably the first aircraft a new user will try what a great advert.A panel that is upside down in the middle of the night with no engines running and no obvious way of getting them started. I mean if the idea is to discourage people from

Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgrun improvements

2005-01-21 Thread Frederic Bouvier
Quoting Erik Hofman: Frederic Bouvier wrote: I forgot this one. It is not an improvement though, rather a fix ;-) The scenery scan is done every time and is very long although it is threaded and doesn't prevent you to launch flightgear. Curt suggested to show all the content of

Re: [Flightgear-devel] menu problems (was v1.0 musings)

2005-01-21 Thread David Luff
On 20/01/2005 at 19:42 Stewart Andreason wrote: I've had my attitude indicator on the panel get stuck 30 degrees off level, and Debug.Reload Panel doesn't reset it. Something else perhaps is... broken as a feature? Once again, Reset doesn't fix it. This is a feature - apparently uncaged

Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 0.9.8, Mac OS X build

2005-01-21 Thread Arnt Karlsen
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:44:50 +, Lee wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Thursday 20 January 2005 17:03, Jon Stockill wrote: Dave Martin wrote: And anyway, everyone knows how to get to heaven; just keep pulling up! :-P Downloading Lee's Canberra model first may help :-) I

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Aircraft loading problem in 9.8

2005-01-21 Thread Innis Cunningham
Curtis L. Olson writes Innis, I had no problem loading the version Ampere sent me in v0.9.8. I did notice there was a large (and seemingly arbitrary) mix of file permission, capitalization, etc. I'm running linux. If you are running windows, perhaps there is a dos/unix line ending problem

RE: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 0.9.8, Mac OS X build

2005-01-21 Thread Jon Berndt
..hell no! Point these assholes to any good Islamic site to show'em how these Religious Righteous Spammers Errs as humanoids. You should not generalize, ..hell yeah, you're right, what I meant was any good Islamic shows how most people are primitive muslims who are nearly there,

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Aircraft loading problem in 9.8

2005-01-21 Thread Frederic Bouvier
Quoting Innis Cunningham: Curtis L. Olson writes Innis, I had no problem loading the version Ampere sent me in v0.9.8. I did notice there was a large (and seemingly arbitrary) mix of file permission, capitalization, etc. I'm running linux. If you are running windows, perhaps there

[Flightgear-devel] EU Software Patents *Fisheries* A-List Monday (Again)

2005-01-21 Thread Dave Martin
Sorry to be spammy again but I'm still firmly of the belief that this is something that could affect FlightGear or any other FOSS in future. The EU Council is once again pushing the patent bill back onto the A-List of the *Fisheries and Agriculture* meeting on Monday. This is *extremely*

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Rain and snow videos or photos

2005-01-21 Thread Roman Grigoriev
Thanx Martin for you reply! I looked on pc7 - so good but you understand that it's simple texture scrolled over cabin. The main problem for fgfs - refuse to use shaders and over cool things and we have not state-of-the-art rendering for uor super flight dynamics. I don't want to offend you but

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Rain and snow videos or photos

2005-01-21 Thread Dave Martin
On Saturday 22 Jan 2005 01:14, Roman Grigoriev wrote: Thanx Martin for you reply! I looked on pc7 - so good but you understand that it's simple texture scrolled over cabin. The main problem for fgfs - refuse to use shaders and over cool things and we have not state-of-the-art rendering for

[Flightgear-devel] Getting the right View position and orientation

2005-01-21 Thread Luca Masera
Hi everyone, I've added a particle system to FlightGear that simulates the smoke via a PLIB object (I adapted the class ssgaParticleSystem to meet some requirements). However, I've in trouble with billboarding. Used alone, with a PLIB's example, the code that rotates the particles following the

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 172 problem in 9.8

2005-01-21 Thread Curtis L. Olson
Innis Cunningham wrote: Erik Hofman writes Innis Cunningham wrote: Seeing this is probably the first aircraft a new user will try what a great advert.A panel that is upside down in the middle of the night with no engines running and no obvious way of getting them started. I mean if the idea is

[Flightgear-devel] AI piper load fix - v0.9.8a needed?

2005-01-21 Thread David Luff
Hi all, I've commited a fix for the program crash when the piper model is not present, and apologise for that. Would a v0.9.8a release be in order? The current package almost certainly crashes for everyone who doesn't have an existing base package or extra aircraft installed, and Frederic's fix

Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgrun improvements

2005-01-21 Thread Jim Wilson
Frederic Bouvier said: To bring fgrun to 1.0 quality grade, and after receiving suggestions from Curt, I am now planning to add basic options to the wizard instead of keeping them hidden behind the Advanced button. Maybe by reducing the size of the command line textfield ( it could also be

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Rain and snow videos or photos

2005-01-21 Thread David Megginson
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:33:37 +, Dave Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But I think the main problem will be simulate drops on wind screen and windscreen wipers. My question here: When does pilots use them(whipers)? only on take-off and landing or on route too? Thanx in advance Most

Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgrun improvements

2005-01-21 Thread Stewart Andreason
Jim Wilson wrote: There are a couple bugs or at least they were there a week or so ago. One is just a mapping typo where latitude goes into both latitude and altitude. The other is under linux the fg-root and fg-scenery parameters don't get saved and passed on to fgfs (no prefs.set done)

Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgrun improvements

2005-01-21 Thread Curtis L. Olson
Stewart Andreason wrote: Jim Wilson wrote: There are a couple bugs or at least they were there a week or so ago. One is just a mapping typo where latitude goes into both latitude and altitude. The other is under linux the fg-root and fg-scenery parameters don't get saved and passed on to

RE: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 172 problem in 9.8

2005-01-21 Thread Vivian Meazza
Innis Cunningham wrote Hi All Could someone who uses FGRUN to start FG confirm that the 172 fullscreen hi res Cessna starts at night with the panel upside down and no scenery even if you have noon selected in FGRUN. Nope - it's fine apart the panel upside down, and the aircraft up to its

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 172 problem in 9.8

2005-01-21 Thread Curtis L. Olson
Vivian Meazza wrote: Innis Cunningham wrote Hi All Could someone who uses FGRUN to start FG confirm that the 172 fullscreen hi res Cessna starts at night with the panel upside down and no scenery even if you have noon selected in FGRUN. Nope - it's fine apart the panel upside down, and the

RE: [Flightgear-devel] fgrun improvements

2005-01-21 Thread Norman Vine
Curtis L. Olson writes: Stewart Andreason wrote: Jim Wilson wrote: There are a couple bugs or at least they were there a week or so ago. One is just a mapping typo where latitude goes into both latitude and altitude. The other is under linux the fg-root and fg-scenery

Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI piper load fix - v0.9.8a needed?

2005-01-21 Thread Durk Talsma
On Friday 21 January 2005 16:51, David Luff wrote: Hi all, I've commited a fix for the program crash when the piper model is not present, and apologise for that. Would a v0.9.8a release be in order? The current package almost certainly crashes for everyone who doesn't have an existing base

Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI piper load fix - v0.9.8a needed?

2005-01-21 Thread David Luff
On 21/01/2005 at 18:38 Durk Talsma wrote: On Friday 21 January 2005 16:51, David Luff wrote: I'd like to overhaul my loading of GA aircraft models properly - instead of pulling them out of the installed aircraft, I think some dedicated AI models should be available to help avoid this kind of

RE: [Flightgear-devel] fgrun improvements

2005-01-21 Thread Jim Wilson
Norman Vine said: but I don't see where setting the lat less then the ground elevation has any bearing on this this sounds more like a parsing error Norman Well, yeah, fgrun still needs to be fixed. Just the same, fgfs should not loop because of a command line entry if at all

Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgrun improvements

2005-01-21 Thread Stewart Andreason
Curtis L. Olson wrote: I can explain the bug to you. If you specify a lon/lat that lies on the *exact* border between two tiles (i.e. --lat=90 --lon=45) then at startup the ground intersection code can fail. This means that the scenery subsystem never returns a valid groud elevation. Oh. I

Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI piper load fix - v0.9.8a needed?

2005-01-21 Thread Jim Wilson
David Luff said: Hi all, I've commited a fix for the program crash when the piper model is not present, and apologise for that. Would a v0.9.8a release be in order? Just the base package maybe? Weren't there some file permission issues too? Best, Jim

Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI piper load fix - v0.9.8a needed?

2005-01-21 Thread David Luff
On 21/01/2005 at 18:02 Jim Wilson wrote: David Luff said: Hi all, I've commited a fix for the program crash when the piper model is not present, and apologise for that. Would a v0.9.8a release be in order? Just the base package maybe? Weren't there some file permission issues too? If

Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI piper load fix - v0.9.8a needed?

2005-01-21 Thread Durk Talsma
On Friday 21 January 2005 18:44, David Luff wrote: On 21/01/2005 at 18:38 Durk Talsma wrote: Any thoughts? Yes, I'm still inclined to go this way (integration), but haven't had the chance to dig into the AIModel code yet. The comments above were intended to be somewhat generic, to be

Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI piper load fix - v0.9.8a needed?

2005-01-21 Thread Jim Wilson
David Luff said: On 21/01/2005 at 18:02 Jim Wilson wrote: David Luff said: Hi all, I've commited a fix for the program crash when the piper model is not present, and apologise for that. Would a v0.9.8a release be in order? Just the base package maybe? Weren't there some

Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI piper load fix - v0.9.8a needed?

2005-01-21 Thread David Luff
On 21/01/2005 at 20:04 Durk Talsma wrote: So time permitting I wouldn't mind having a stab at porting (some of) your code to interact with the AIModel system, it that is okay with you. As I mentioned yesterday, the taxiway code comes to mind. This approach might actually be mutually

Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI piper load fix - v0.9.8a needed?

2005-01-21 Thread Erik Hofman
Jim Wilson wrote: Maybe adding it back in is the best way though, rather than making everyone rebuild the executables. I wouldn't mind too much about that. Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cessna 172 problem in 9.8

2005-01-21 Thread Roy Vegard Ovesen
On Friday 21 January 2005 11:06, Erik Hofman wrote: From c172-610x-null-set.xml panel pathAircraft/c172/Panels/c172-610x-panel.xml/path visibility archive=ytrue/visibility flip-xtrue/flip-x /panel Note the flip-xtrue/flip-x tag. -- Roy Vegard Ovesen

Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgrun improvements

2005-01-21 Thread Paul Surgeon
On Friday, 21 January 2005 14:59, Frederic Bouvier wrote: I forgot this one. It is not an improvement though, rather a fix ;-) The scenery scan is done every time and is very long although it is threaded and doesn't prevent you to launch flightgear. Curt suggested to show all the content of

[Flightgear-devel] Re: Cessna 172 problem in 9.8

2005-01-21 Thread Nick Coleman
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:45:09 +0800 From: Innis Cunningham Hi All Could someone who uses FGRUN to start FG confirm that the 172 fullscreen hi res Cessna starts at night with the panel upside down and no scenery even if you have noon selected in FGRUN. There is a switch in

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Cessna 172 problem in 9.8

2005-01-21 Thread Curtis L. Olson
Nick Coleman wrote: Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:45:09 +0800 From: Innis Cunningham Hi All Could someone who uses FGRUN to start FG confirm that the 172 fullscreen hi res Cessna starts at night with the panel upside down and no scenery even if you have noon selected in FGRUN. There is a switch

[Flightgear-devel] round robin mirror listing

2005-01-21 Thread Curtis L. Olson
I implimented a randomized mirror linking system in some of our download pages using server side includes (which was the first mechanism I figured out so I went with it.) If anyone runs into any problems with the system, please let me know. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson

Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgrun improvements

2005-01-21 Thread Frederic Bouvier
Jim Wilson wrote : Norman Vine said: but I don't see where setting the lat less then the ground elevation has any bearing on this this sounds more like a parsing error Norman Well, yeah, fgrun still needs to be fixed. The fix is in CVS -Fred

Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI piper load fix - v0.9.8a needed?

2005-01-21 Thread Curtis L. Olson
Jim Wilson wrote: David Luff said: On 21/01/2005 at 18:02 Jim Wilson wrote: David Luff said: Hi all, I've commited a fix for the program crash when the piper model is not present, and apologise for that. Would a v0.9.8a release be in order? Just the base package maybe?

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Config defaults for Simgear

2005-01-21 Thread Jim Wilson
Nick Coleman said: While we're talking about cleaning up for V1.0, would it be possible for Simgear's config default to include --with-jpeg-factory as the default? FG's make always barfs if I forget to include this when I build Simgear. Lol, I don't know what jpeg-factory actually

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Getting the right View position and orientation

2005-01-21 Thread Jim Wilson
Luca Masera said: Hi everyone, I've added a particle system to FlightGear that simulates the smoke via a PLIB object (I adapted the class ssgaParticleSystem to meet some requirements). However, I've in trouble with billboarding. Used alone, with a PLIB's example, the code that rotates

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Rain and snow videos or photos

2005-01-21 Thread Ampere K. Hardraade
Light shower: http://www.fsaviation.com/~airvideo/a340/1a/a340/sinldg01.zip http://www.fsaviation.com/~airvideo/a340/1a/a340/shanghai.zip Heavy rain: http://www.airliners.net/open.file/735373/L/ Rapid descent with bank during final: http://www.fsaviation.com/~airvideo/a340/1a/a340/hkapp.zip

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Cessna 172 problem in 9.8

2005-01-21 Thread Jim Wilson
Curtis L. Olson said: Hey, you never know; someone might decide their instrument display hardware fits better in their cockpit upside down and then says ... oh that's not hard to switch in software is it? Curt. Was that the one was used by Wrong Way Feldman on Gilligan's island?