Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights need help
tom bonnell wrote: hi i am tryin to add some lights activated in dark like the ones in a4 aircraft...(red on top and a white in lg door) . I look at the xml declerations of some structural models but I did not make it work.. what I did was building simple ac model and xml to test scene with respect to b105 but didnt work . please help.. There are two thing you might want to keep in mind: 1. PLib doesn't render objects with one surface, so if you defined one quad you will need to split it up in two triangles instead. 2. Lights are made up of emissive materials in OpenGL, if you want them to stand out at night you will need to adjust the values of the emissive color. Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] lights need help
hi i am tryin to add some lights activated in dark like the ones in a4 aircraft...(red on top and a white in lg door) . I look at the xmldeclerations of somestructural models but I did not make it work.. what I did was building simple ac model and xml to test scene with respect tob105 but didnt work.please help.. PropertyList pathligts.ac/path animation typebillboard/type object-nameBox01/object-name /animation animation typescale/type object-nameBox01/object-name property/sim/time/sun-angle-rad/property offset-1.4/offset x-min1/x-min y-min1/y-min z-min1/z-min x-factor12/x-factor y-factor12/y-factor z-factor12/z-factor /animation /PropertyList Sell on Yahoo! Auctions - No fees. Bid on great items.___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Sorry Erik I don't want offend anyone here But If I know that shaders will be used sometimes in fgfs I will work on them but there are a lot of work to do and if anyone colud help me we can work on it. So I propose this http://fgfs.narod.ru/glsl.tar.gz as framework for using shaders in fgfs. What do you think about it? We can discuss it. if we will work on this shader framework we can make things better. Thanx in advance Bye - Original Message - From: Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows Roman Grigoriev wrote: But fgfs community refuse to use it :( You could have made it easier if you had adopted FlightGear's rules for platform independent OpenGL extension support, kept the code style close to what is used in FlightGear, didn't add a new class at a place where it doesn't belong and prevented buffer overflows yourself. It requires just too much time to clean up the code before it would become useful. Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
On June 21, 2005 03:34 am, Roman Grigoriev wrote: to Harald JOHNSEN: spot lights in fgfs I had 3 years ago. they worked on vertex program and registercombiners but everyone afraid of vertex programs and multitexturing You can see some screens here http://fgfs.narod.ru In my opinion, if the code exists already, then it shouldn't be wasted. Just a couple of questions: What is the performance hit as a percentage of the highest framerate? What is the minimal graphic card requirment? Would you mind explaining how your code works? I understand that you have a framework for this. Would you mind explaining to me what this framework is and how it works? How flexible is this particular code? For example, can the inside of the hangar be lit? Can the light be cast on to other objects beside the ground? Thanks in advance, Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Roman Grigoriev wrote: Sorry Erik I don't want offend anyone here But If I know that shaders will be used sometimes in fgfs I will work on them but there are a lot of work to do and if anyone colud help me we can work on it. So I propose this http://fgfs.narod.ru/glsl.tar.gz as framework for using shaders in fgfs. What do you think about it? We can discuss it. if we will work on this shader framework we can make things better. I would like to add support for them, just in the proper way. That's why it is still in my TODO box. It's just the time ... Here are a few things to consider: 1. Move the Shader class over to a new file (probably shader.cxx and shader.hxx) in SimGear/simgear/screen 2. Use the SimGear extension header files (you will probably need to extend them (see FlightGear/docs-mini/README.extensions) Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
- Original Message - From: Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows Roman Grigoriev wrote: Sorry Erik I don't want offend anyone here But If I know that shaders will be used sometimes in fgfs I will work on them but there are a lot of work to do and if anyone colud help me we can work on it. So I propose this http://fgfs.narod.ru/glsl.tar.gz as framework for using shaders in fgfs. What do you think about it? We can discuss it. if we will work on this shader framework we can make things better. I would like to add support for them, just in the proper way. That's why it is still in my TODO box. It's just the time ... Here are a few things to consider: 1. Move the Shader class over to a new file (probably shader.cxx and shader.hxx) in SimGear/simgear/screen 2. Use the SimGear extension header files (you will probably need to extend them (see FlightGear/docs-mini/README.extensions) Erik I think that you are right Erik! But I propose a technique and you Erik - fgfs maitainer, so you can decide where to put this classes I think this shader method have advantages that shaders are in text files that can be changed by users without compiling all simgear and flightgear sources. This framework add you functionality to optimize shaders to you current architecture (NV/ATI or other machines) so we have higher framerates. because you can specify shaders that can be loaded to NV only or ATI only and during fgfs startup we can detect archtecture and load proper shader. for example using NV shaders on NV hardware can get 20% boost to framerate. and detection of hardware is so easy you can only querry about NV_fragment_program extension - so you have NV hardware overwise -ATI or other videocard. But I don't know about SGI - does this architecture support shaders at all? So I think that if you add new classes to simgear people can start using them and mekes things better. Roman ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Roman Grigoriev wrote: But I don't know about SGI - does this architecture support shaders at all? So I think that if you add new classes to simgear people can start using them and mekes things better. SGI, ehm, well yes, sort of. They invented the shaders, but only have a software (CPU) implementation available ... Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Ok Ampere I try to explain so forgive me to my bad english Lets start from simple For example about runway lights http://fgfs.narod.ru/glsl.tar.gz I think that its' not good to use sphere mapping for runway lights points to calculate visibility and have using triangles instead points. - so you have huge framerate drops on NV. but points are quads in close view so you have to use point smooth extesion have give us framerate drop. So I decided to use NV_point_sprite extension http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/registry/NV/point_sprite.txt that supported from geforce4 or hier now we have ARB_point_sprite that supports on ATI too ( but I have NV GFX5950 so I develop on this hardware) to have they smoohed and have glares on them like on this screen - http://fgfs.narod.ru/fgfs-006.jpg I take tga grayscale image with glare and put them into runway light point. using points instead of polygons - great benefit because you only need 1 vertex insted of 3. but we can calculate visibility to directed runway lights. w/o shaders you have to use sphere mapping but now we can use shaders and get benefit from if. in scenery file (.stg) you have for runway lights vertex positions, normals and color so normal of runway light - is wnat we need to use because it a visibility vector and we have view vector only we need to dot3 them and we have visibility from 0 to 1 that 0- not visible and 1 full visibility. also in vertex shader we calculate point size - to have them faded on distances. visibility of lightpoint is placed to alpha channel and goes to blender stage ( fragment shader) here we have to add fog formulas and render them. Its a short story how to render lightpoints :) I advice you to see to sources http://fgfs.narod.ru/glsl.tar.gz more deeply to understand I run it on GFX5950 linux 6629 (I don't try it on windows but it should work) - If you have ATI you simply shange NV_point_sprite to ARB_point_sprite but on nvidia hardware this can be slowdown 5-10%. If you need more explanation I can give them but I suggest you to read about shaders in Internet and visited some sites www.delphi3d.net www.humus.ca http://developer.nvidia.com to see some examples. Thanx in advance Roman - Original Message - From: Ampere K. Hardraade [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:14 AM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows On June 21, 2005 03:34 am, Roman Grigoriev wrote: to Harald JOHNSEN: spot lights in fgfs I had 3 years ago. they worked on vertex program and registercombiners but everyone afraid of vertex programs and multitexturing You can see some screens here http://fgfs.narod.ru In my opinion, if the code exists already, then it shouldn't be wasted. Just a couple of questions: What is the performance hit as a percentage of the highest framerate? What is the minimal graphic card requirment? Would you mind explaining how your code works? I understand that you have a framework for this. Would you mind explaining to me what this framework is and how it works? How flexible is this particular code? For example, can the inside of the hangar be lit? Can the light be cast on to other objects beside the ground? Thanks in advance, Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
- Original Message - From: Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 12:35 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows Roman Grigoriev wrote: But I don't know about SGI - does this architecture support shaders at all? So I think that if you add new classes to simgear people can start using them and mekes things better. SGI, ehm, well yes, sort of. They invented the shaders, but only have a software (CPU) implementation available ... SO sorry to hear it but it's a reality in wich we live. Roman Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Roman Grigoriev wrote: [...] because you can specify shaders that can be loaded to NV only or ATI only and during fgfs startup we can detect archtecture and load proper shader. for example using NV shaders on NV hardware can get 20% boost to framerate. and detection of hardware is so easy you can only querry about NV_fragment_program extension - so you have NV hardware overwise -ATI or other videocard. Are you really willing to write special support for every piece of hardware that's out there ? I slightly suspect that this will probably not happen !? Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
- Original Message - From: Martin Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: list.flightgear-devel To: flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows Roman Grigoriev wrote: [...] because you can specify shaders that can be loaded to NV only or ATI only and during fgfs startup we can detect archtecture and load proper shader. for example using NV shaders on NV hardware can get 20% boost to framerate. and detection of hardware is so easy you can only querry about NV_fragment_program extension - so you have NV hardware overwise -ATI or other videocard. Are you really willing to write special support for every piece of hardware that's out there ? I slightly suspect that this will probably not happen !? We can simply use ARB extension - that support on ATI and NV but if you want get some boost knowing some aspects of architecture sometimes up to 30% you can simple use vendor specific extentions. That's it that I want to say. And we can begin to use ARB extentions and after that we can add vendor specific extensions. Roman Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Roman Grigoriev wrote: We can simply use ARB extension - that support on ATI and NV but if you want get some boost knowing some aspects of architecture sometimes up to 30% you can simple use vendor specific extentions. I simply fear exactly such proceeding this will manouvre FG into (a) vendor specific corner(s) and offend numerous users, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Martin Spott Roman Grigoriev wrote: We can simply use ARB extension - that support on ATI and NV but if you want get some boost knowing some aspects of architecture sometimes up to 30% you can simple use vendor specific extentions. I simply fear exactly such proceeding this will manouvre FG into (a) vendor specific corner(s) and offend numerous users, Not if Roman makes the hardware-specific extensions user-selectable, and as I understand it, that is his proposal. I think Roman should press on with this at full speed. It's been hanging around for years. I would love to have some code to test. It all looks very attractive. Regards, Vivian ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Roman Grigoriev wrote: I would like to add support for them, just in the proper way. That's why it is still in my TODO box. It's just the time ... Here are a few things to consider: 1. Move the Shader class over to a new file (probably shader.cxx and shader.hxx) in SimGear/simgear/screen 2. Use the SimGear extension header files (you will probably need to extend them (see FlightGear/docs-mini/README.extensions) Erik I think that you are right Erik! But I propose a technique and you Erik - fgfs maitainer, so you can decide where to put this classes I second what Erik said, extract your code from render.cxx and put them in separates files. Then it will be easier to use your code for new effects, no need for me to reinvente the wheel :-) since you allready have exprerience with shaders. I think this shader method have advantages that shaders are in text files that can be changed by users without compiling all simgear and flightgear sources. Good thing. This framework add you functionality to optimize shaders to you current architecture (NV/ATI or other machines) so we have higher framerates. because you can specify shaders that can be loaded to NV only or ATI only and during fgfs startup we can detect archtecture and load proper shader. for example using NV shaders on NV hardware can get 20% boost to framerate. and detection of hardware is so easy you can only querry about NV_fragment_program extension - so you have NV hardware overwise -ATI or other videocard. Ok, but we must at least have a generic hardware independant shader (arb or glsl). But I don't know about SGI - does this architecture support shaders at all? So I think that if you add new classes to simgear people can start using them and mekes things better. Roman And of course shaders don't replace existing code (they can replace existing effect), they are allways optional. I'll have a deeper look at your code in a few days, I need to finish the shadow code atm. Harald. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
to Harald JOHNSEN: spot lights in fgfs I had 3 years ago. they worked on vertex program and registercombiners but everyone afraid of vertex programs and multitexturing You can see some screens here http://fgfs.narod.ru But I work on it and now I have runway lights, landing lights, relief mapping , DXT compression and another cool stuff that work on fragment and vertex program But fgfs community refuse to use it :( to sad to hear it :(( but I have framework to use shaders from VP1.0 to GLSL in fgfs but you have some influence in fgfs community so I think you can do what I haven't done yet - have flightgear looks better by using some modern stuff. we can discuss about shaders with you feel free to mail me Thanx in advance Bye - Original Message - From: Ampere K. Hardraade [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows On June 20, 2005 12:53 pm, Harald JOHNSEN wrote: You are a genius, forget my previous reply. We can't lighten pixels from the framebuffer because of the low precision (8 bits) but we can of course darken them. Algo (works better at full night) : 1) render the scene and all non emissive geometry with a 'day' ambient term 2) render all lights (or emissive geometry) and update the stencil buffer ( stencil := 1) 3) render a quad on screen to darken everything where stencil == 0 with 1 3 the scenery goes dark/black as usual with 2 the scenery in light stay illuminated Its quasi free, simple, support a million (fake) spot light ;) Harald. Nice! We will finally be able to see at night in FlightGear. =) On June 20, 2005 04:15 pm, Josh Babcock wrote: I think the shadows are cool, but I think that being able to have spotlights is just awesome. Perhaps we should start thinking about how this will be implemented from the modeler's perspective. ... A really cool bit of eye candy would be to make a visible cone of light that would change intensity based on how much moisture is in the air. That can even produce blinding reflection in a heavy fog, which IMO would be very cool to see. It would be great to see two beams stabbing out in front of a landing jetliner! To increase flexibility, I think it would be a good idea to allow the modeller to specify the light volume. This way, the spot light can take the shape of a star if the modeller desires. So, to light the interior of a hangar, all there would need is a box that is as big as the hangar itself. For normal spot light, the modeller can specify a cone as the light volume. For a linear light source, the modeller can use a triangular prism to outline the space being lit. The modeller-specified object can also be served to control the parameters of the spot light. Obviously, the width of the beam would be proportional the the thickness of the object. In addition to using XML to control the brightness of the light source, the size of the object itself can be used to calculate the brightness factor. The color of the object would be a contributing factor to the color of the light source. The modeller-specified object should not be hidden by default, however. The modeller would have to make the object hidden manually by setting the object's opacity to zero. An object that is not totally transparent will be self illuminating. This way, places such as hangar interiors can be served as prop and acted as the light volume simultaneously. I guess it would still be up to the modeler to provide Melchior style billboards so that the actual light would be visible. I'm not sure how one would deal with the directionality of the light though. One can also add lights for the nav lights. Imagine being able to look out the cockpit window and see your anti-collision lights reflecting off the ramp! Yes. The same idea occured to me while I was coming home on the bus. =) Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Le mardi 21 juin 2005 à 11:34 +0400, Roman Grigoriev a écrit : to Harald JOHNSEN: spot lights in fgfs I had 3 years ago. they worked on vertex program and registercombiners but everyone afraid of vertex programs and multitexturing You can see some screens here http://fgfs.narod.ru But I work on it and now I have runway lights, landing lights, relief mapping , DXT compression and another cool stuff that work on fragment and vertex program But fgfs community refuse to use it :( to sad to hear it :(( but I have framework to use shaders from VP1.0 to GLSL in fgfs but you have some influence in fgfs community so I think you can do what I haven't done yet - have flightgear looks better by using some modern stuff. we can discuss about shaders with you feel free to mail me Thanx in advance Bye That is beautiful which put away any others games (flight) simulators (don't push me to give a name) Here is a good example of parallel development. An energy which must be used. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
But I work on it and now I have runway lights, landing lights, relief mapping , DXT compression and another cool stuff that work on fragment and vertex program Where can one download the code? Giles Robertson ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Le mardi 21 juin 2005 à 11:34 +0400, Roman Grigoriev a écrit : to Harald JOHNSEN: spot lights in fgfs I had 3 years ago. they worked on vertex program and registercombiners but everyone afraid of vertex programs and multitexturing You can see some screens here http://fgfs.narod.ru But I work on it and now I have runway lights, landing lights, relief mapping , DXT compression and another cool stuff that work on fragment and vertex program But fgfs community refuse to use it :( to sad to hear it :(( but I have framework to use shaders from VP1.0 to GLSL in fgfs but you have some influence in fgfs community so I think you can do what I haven't done yet - have flightgear looks better by using some modern stuff. we can discuss about shaders with you feel free to mail me Thanx in advance Bye Hello Roman, have you any patch which could be applied on fg-9.8 I guess, it could be a great pleasure to test it. thank -- Gerard ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
- Original Message - From: Gerard Robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows Le mardi 21 juin 2005 à 11:34 +0400, Roman Grigoriev a écrit : to Harald JOHNSEN: spot lights in fgfs I had 3 years ago. they worked on vertex program and registercombiners but everyone afraid of vertex programs and multitexturing You can see some screens here http://fgfs.narod.ru But I work on it and now I have runway lights, landing lights, relief mapping , DXT compression and another cool stuff that work on fragment and vertex program But fgfs community refuse to use it :( to sad to hear it :(( but I have framework to use shaders from VP1.0 to GLSL in fgfs but you have some influence in fgfs community so I think you can do what I haven't done yet - have flightgear looks better by using some modern stuff. we can discuss about shaders with you feel free to mail me Thanx in advance Bye Hello Roman, have you any patch which could be applied on fg-9.8 I guess, it could be a great pleasure to test it. If you intrested in I can prepare it give me some time to test it with flightgear CVS thank -- Gerard ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Le mardi 21 juin 2005 à 16:02 +0400, Roman Grigoriev a écrit : - Original Message - From: Gerard Robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows Le mardi 21 juin 2005 à 11:34 +0400, Roman Grigoriev a écrit : to Harald JOHNSEN: spot lights in fgfs I had 3 years ago. they worked on vertex program and registercombiners but everyone afraid of vertex programs and multitexturing You can see some screens here http://fgfs.narod.ru But I work on it and now I have runway lights, landing lights, relief mapping , DXT compression and another cool stuff that work on fragment and vertex program But fgfs community refuse to use it :( to sad to hear it :(( but I have framework to use shaders from VP1.0 to GLSL in fgfs but you have some influence in fgfs community so I think you can do what I haven't done yet - have flightgear looks better by using some modern stuff. we can discuss about shaders with you feel free to mail me Thanx in advance Bye Hello Roman, have you any patch which could be applied on fg-9.8 I guess, it could be a great pleasure to test it. If you intrested in I can prepare it give me some time to test it with flightgear CVS Yes, thanks, i hope, i will not be alone to test it, The community should be interested in. The advantage, it is existing and working. -- Gerard ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
here I upload shader framework that supports shaders from VP1.0 to GLSL and have runway lights calculated in vertex shader and uses point sprites http://fgfs.narod.ru/glsl.tar.gz Tested on Nvidia Geforce5950 and linux 6629 drivers must compiled with -DGL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES key in C++ section of makefile Now I start integrate FBO extension in Harald clouds code to make render-to-texture more efficiently - Original Message - From: Gerard Robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows Le mardi 21 juin 2005 à 11:34 +0400, Roman Grigoriev a écrit : to Harald JOHNSEN: spot lights in fgfs I had 3 years ago. they worked on vertex program and registercombiners but everyone afraid of vertex programs and multitexturing You can see some screens here http://fgfs.narod.ru But I work on it and now I have runway lights, landing lights, relief mapping , DXT compression and another cool stuff that work on fragment and vertex program But fgfs community refuse to use it :( to sad to hear it :(( but I have framework to use shaders from VP1.0 to GLSL in fgfs but you have some influence in fgfs community so I think you can do what I haven't done yet - have flightgear looks better by using some modern stuff. we can discuss about shaders with you feel free to mail me Thanx in advance Bye Hello Roman, have you any patch which could be applied on fg-9.8 I guess, it could be a great pleasure to test it. thank -- Gerard ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Le mardi 21 juin 2005 à 16:26 +0400, Roman Grigoriev a écrit : I found some earlier version of renderer.cxx I sent it w/o testing with fgfs CVS if It doesn't work please reply me but you can see my source OK, i will try to include it in fg 9.8 first, i need only some delay, and i will give you the answer. thanks -- Gerard ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Roman Grigoriev wrote: But fgfs community refuse to use it :( You could have made it easier if you had adopted FlightGear's rules for platform independent OpenGL extension support, kept the code style close to what is used in FlightGear, didn't add a new class at a place where it doesn't belong and prevented buffer overflows yourself. It requires just too much time to clean up the code before it would become useful. Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Harald JOHNSEN wrote: Its quasi free, simple, support a million (fake) spot light ;) I think the shadows are cool, but I think that being able to have spotlights is just awesome. Perhaps we should start thinking about how this will be implemented from the modeler's perspective. I can see the following being pretty useful in the model.xml file: PropertyList light n=0 archive=y pos-x-m0/pos-x-m pos-y-m0/pos-y-m pos-z-m0/pos-z-m azimuth0/azimuth elevation0/elevation power-cp100/power-cp width-deg30/width-deg falloff-deg5/falloff-deg /light /PropertyList By executing commands against power-cp, azimuth and elevation you would be able to turn the light on and off and steer it, and width could be used to simulate spotlights focusing in and out. falloff-deg would represent the width of the band around the cone of light where the light transitions from full power to none. Whenever someone can implement colored lights, hue and saturation could be added (power-cp already takes the place of value in the HSV scheme). I guess it would still be up to the modeler to provide Melchior style billboards so that the actual light would be visible. I'm not sure how one would deal with the directionality of the light though. One could also add lights for the nav lights. Imagine being able to look out the cockpit window and see your anti-collision lights reflecting off the ramp! A really cool bit of eye candy would be to make a visible cone of light that would change intensity based on how much moisture is in the air. That could even produce blinding reflection in a heavy fog, which IMO would be very cool to see. It would be great to see two beams stabbing out in front of a landing jetliner! Josh ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
On June 20, 2005 12:53 pm, Harald JOHNSEN wrote: You are a genius, forget my previous reply. We can't lighten pixels from the framebuffer because of the low precision (8 bits) but we can of course darken them. Algo (works better at full night) : 1) render the scene and all non emissive geometry with a 'day' ambient term 2) render all lights (or emissive geometry) and update the stencil buffer ( stencil := 1) 3) render a quad on screen to darken everything where stencil == 0 with 1 3 the scenery goes dark/black as usual with 2 the scenery in light stay illuminated Its quasi free, simple, support a million (fake) spot light ;) Harald. Nice! We will finally be able to see at night in FlightGear. =) On June 20, 2005 04:15 pm, Josh Babcock wrote: I think the shadows are cool, but I think that being able to have spotlights is just awesome. Perhaps we should start thinking about how this will be implemented from the modeler's perspective. ... A really cool bit of eye candy would be to make a visible cone of light that would change intensity based on how much moisture is in the air. That can even produce blinding reflection in a heavy fog, which IMO would be very cool to see. It would be great to see two beams stabbing out in front of a landing jetliner! To increase flexibility, I think it would be a good idea to allow the modeller to specify the light volume. This way, the spot light can take the shape of a star if the modeller desires. So, to light the interior of a hangar, all there would need is a box that is as big as the hangar itself. For normal spot light, the modeller can specify a cone as the light volume. For a linear light source, the modeller can use a triangular prism to outline the space being lit. The modeller-specified object can also be served to control the parameters of the spot light. Obviously, the width of the beam would be proportional the the thickness of the object. In addition to using XML to control the brightness of the light source, the size of the object itself can be used to calculate the brightness factor. The color of the object would be a contributing factor to the color of the light source. The modeller-specified object should not be hidden by default, however. The modeller would have to make the object hidden manually by setting the object's opacity to zero. An object that is not totally transparent will be self illuminating. This way, places such as hangar interiors can be served as prop and acted as the light volume simultaneously. I guess it would still be up to the modeler to provide Melchior style billboards so that the actual light would be visible. I'm not sure how one would deal with the directionality of the light though. One can also add lights for the nav lights. Imagine being able to look out the cockpit window and see your anti-collision lights reflecting off the ramp! Yes. The same idea occured to me while I was coming home on the bus. =) Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] Lights
Hi, There's a way to add a new light to FlightGear? I vould try to add a real landing light to the airplanes (a real light, not a batch of enlighted vertex). Luca ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-devel] Lights
Luca Masera wrote: Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 10:12 AM To: flightgear-devel Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Lights Hi, There's a way to add a new light to FlightGear? I vould try to add a real landing light to the airplanes (a real light, not a batch of enlighted vertex). Nope, not yet. Regards Vivian ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights
On 9/22/04 at 11:12 AM Luca Masera wrote: Hi, There's a way to add a new light to FlightGear? I vould try to add a real landing light to the airplanes (a real light, not a batch of enlighted vertex). I believe Roman Grigoriev managed to do this a while ago - you might try emailing him (search the list archives). Some of the screenshots he posted looked pretty good. Cheers - Dave This message has been scanned but we cannot guarantee that it and any attachments are free from viruses or other damaging content: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
Interesting, I re-installed Windoze, ATI drivers and motherboard chipset drivers. I set the frame rate at 85 fps and don't get the problems. It looks like it may be one of the options, but havn't found a combination yet. Peter - Original Message - From: Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlightGear developers discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 12:54 AM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG Chris Metzler wrote: On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:04:57 +0100 Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem at EGNM I mentioned is on several NVidia based systems. As I said though - it's nowhere near as severe as in those screenshots. I'll try and grab an example tonight. I'm on an Nvidia card (finally), and what I see at EGNM is this: at the beginning of 14, along the right side of the displaced threshhold, I see a seam where the terrain suddenly jumps up about a meter in elevation, leaving a sky-colored gap between (vertical, thus only visible from one side). Is this what you see? If so, I see that sort of thing too, near most large airports. I suspect it's not a FlightGear thing so much as a TerraGear thing -- I suspect it's an artifact of the smoothing done in making things flat for the runways etc. But I dunno. Yes - that's it. I can't remember the exact relative positioning in the sim, but in real life that's about the point where the road disappears under the end of the runway. Could that be the cause? ISTR a similar problem at RAF Finningley (EGXI) where a railway crosses the end of the runway (it should be just on the boundary of the airfield, but the VMAP and/or airfield accuracy cause an overlap. -- Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
Chris Metzler wrote: Josh sent me along a few screenshots to illustrate the ground poly bugginess he's seeing near airports. They can be found at: http://www.speakeasy.net/~cmetzler/fgfs-screen-002.jpg http://www.speakeasy.net/~cmetzler/fgfs-screen-003.jpg http://www.speakeasy.net/~cmetzler/fgfs-screen-004.jpg Weird stuff. What airports are these? There's a similar, but much less severe problem at the end of runway 14/32 at Leeds/Bradford (EGNM). -- Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 00:08:31 -0400 Josh Babcock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Moving just a few inches any direction or changing the view angle makes these things change wildly, or even go away. In fact, in the right spot they will flicker on and off. They only seem to appear when I am over an airport. There is also a poly in the dc3 model that does this no matter where I am. It always shows up from inside the cockpit as a bright orange vertical stripe on the left side of the windscreen. It looks texture mapped. I have to position the view angle just right to see it. Hmm. I see various problems at various airports, including these two, such as tears along seams in the terrain -- like there's an abrupt jump in ground elevation without any effort to connect the two levels -- but they typically aren't severe, no more than a meter or so vertically, and I don't see polygons up in the air. And I don't see any problem with the DC-3. I want to say that this is something odd about your drivers, but I'm too ignorant of this stuff to be sure. Is it only ATI people that see this stuff? Do all ATI people see this stuff -c -- Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove snip-me. to email) As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized. - Chief Luther Standing Bear pgpEQUpZX6kGQ.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
Chris Metzler wrote: On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 00:08:31 -0400 Josh Babcock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Moving just a few inches any direction or changing the view angle makes these things change wildly, or even go away. In fact, in the right spot they will flicker on and off. They only seem to appear when I am over an airport. There is also a poly in the dc3 model that does this no matter where I am. It always shows up from inside the cockpit as a bright orange vertical stripe on the left side of the windscreen. It looks texture mapped. I have to position the view angle just right to see it. Hmm. I see various problems at various airports, including these two, such as tears along seams in the terrain -- like there's an abrupt jump in ground elevation without any effort to connect the two levels -- but they typically aren't severe, no more than a meter or so vertically, and I don't see polygons up in the air. And I don't see any problem with the DC-3. I want to say that this is something odd about your drivers, but I'm too ignorant of this stuff to be sure. Is it only ATI people that see this stuff? Do all ATI people see this stuff The problem at EGNM I mentioned is on several NVidia based systems. As I said though - it's nowhere near as severe as in those screenshots. I'll try and grab an example tonight. -- Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
Chris Metzler wrote: On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 00:08:31 -0400 And I don't see any problem with the DC-3. I want to say that this is something odd about your drivers, but I'm too ignorant of this stuff to be sure. Is it only ATI people that see this stuff? Do all ATI people see this stuff Personally, I would say that while there do seem to be some issues specific to ATI cards, I cannot complain in general as the overall performance seems a lot better than using a better card, regarding ATI I've come to the conclusion that it's just a matter of disabling the right options to reduce the problems (like the mentioned lack of updates in specific parts of the client area) and to make the whole situation bearable. On the ATI issues I am going to download some other plib applications in order to specifically look out for similar problems but also performance, maybe it's really not that much related to FlightGear itself but rather plib ? That would at least make sense if I don't find _any_ plib app where I achieve more than 10-15 FPS with the nvidia card ;-) Regarding the idea to profile the openGL specific parts of FlightGear I have to say that I did download the mentioned software but to be honest: I wouldn't have the slightest clue about what to look for, so the best thing I could possibly offer is to log everything and make the logs available - but the evaluation of these logs would probably be a totally diffferent issue :-/ On the other hand I had a closer look at this openGL logging application and I think one might attempt to get representative results by adding the functionality to FlightGear itself (a debugging version) and try to run some basic flight data replay (or something similar to utilize openGL for a specific amount of time which should be available in all versions) on as many machines as possible. Maybe one could then find essential differences by comparing the collected logs ? (just guessing) Even though I did personally also consider running other (more performant) Windows openGL applications in order to see in what way they deal differently with the accelerator card, possibly it's really about enabling specific options on some boards ?! Boris P.S.: Sorry Erik for typing more than 5 lines of text :-) ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
Boris Koenig writes: That would at least make sense if I don't find _any_ plib app where I achieve more than 10-15 FPS with the nvidia card ;-) I have many PLib applications that run at a rock steady 70hz, my screen refresh rate, on a NVIDIA GeForce 2 in a PIII 733 On the other hand I had a closer look at this openGL logging application and I think one might attempt to get representative results by adding the functionality to FlightGear itself Low level OpenGL logging is already built into FlightGear but you need to hard-compile it in. There are no instructions other then the source code as if one can't read the code then one has no reason to have this capability as they certainly won't understand the resulting output :-) possibly it's really about enabling specific options on some boards ?! !!! it's about *disenabling* specific options on some boards !!! Yup, there is enough variability in machines that there is no 'one size' fits all. The default settings are a compromise between reasonable performance on most semi modern machines and what the hard core entusiasts want in terms of 'eye candy' One thing non-coders could do that would be useful would be to start collecting these machine specific tips on a web page somewhere like the Wiki . Cheers Norman ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:04:57 +0100 Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem at EGNM I mentioned is on several NVidia based systems. As I said though - it's nowhere near as severe as in those screenshots. I'll try and grab an example tonight. I'm on an Nvidia card (finally), and what I see at EGNM is this: at the beginning of 14, along the right side of the displaced threshhold, I see a seam where the terrain suddenly jumps up about a meter in elevation, leaving a sky-colored gap between (vertical, thus only visible from one side). Is this what you see? If so, I see that sort of thing too, near most large airports. I suspect it's not a FlightGear thing so much as a TerraGear thing -- I suspect it's an artifact of the smoothing done in making things flat for the runways etc. But I dunno. -c -- Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove snip-me. to email) As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized. - Chief Luther Standing Bear pgpC3OHditdGT.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
Chris Metzler wrote: On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:04:57 +0100 Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem at EGNM I mentioned is on several NVidia based systems. As I said though - it's nowhere near as severe as in those screenshots. I'll try and grab an example tonight. I'm on an Nvidia card (finally), and what I see at EGNM is this: at the beginning of 14, along the right side of the displaced threshhold, I see a seam where the terrain suddenly jumps up about a meter in elevation, leaving a sky-colored gap between (vertical, thus only visible from one side). Is this what you see? If so, I see that sort of thing too, near most large airports. I suspect it's not a FlightGear thing so much as a TerraGear thing -- I suspect it's an artifact of the smoothing done in making things flat for the runways etc. But I dunno. Yes - that's it. I can't remember the exact relative positioning in the sim, but in real life that's about the point where the road disappears under the end of the runway. Could that be the cause? ISTR a similar problem at RAF Finningley (EGXI) where a railway crosses the end of the runway (it should be just on the boundary of the airfield, but the VMAP and/or airfield accuracy cause an overlap. -- Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
Jon Stockill wrote: Chris Metzler wrote: On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:04:57 +0100 Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem at EGNM I mentioned is on several NVidia based systems. As I said though - it's nowhere near as severe as in those screenshots. I'll try and grab an example tonight. I'm on an Nvidia card (finally), and what I see at EGNM is this: at the beginning of 14, along the right side of the displaced threshhold, I see a seam where the terrain suddenly jumps up about a meter in elevation, leaving a sky-colored gap between (vertical, thus only visible from one side). Is this what you see? If so, I see that sort of thing too, near most large airports. I suspect it's not a FlightGear thing so much as a TerraGear thing -- I suspect it's an artifact of the smoothing done in making things flat for the runways etc. But I dunno. Yes - that's it. I can't remember the exact relative positioning in the sim, but in real life that's about the point where the road disappears under the end of the runway. Could that be the cause? ISTR a similar problem at RAF Finningley (EGXI) where a railway crosses the end of the runway (it should be just on the boundary of the airfield, but the VMAP and/or airfield accuracy cause an overlap. At least one of my screenshots (KADW) had no roads involved. Josh ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
Jon Stockill wrote Sent: 29 July 2004 14:05 To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG Chris Metzler wrote: On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 00:08:31 -0400 Josh Babcock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Moving just a few inches any direction or changing the view angle makes these things change wildly, or even go away. In fact, in the right spot they will flicker on and off. They only seem to appear when I am over an airport. There is also a poly in the dc3 model that does this no matter where I am. It always shows up from inside the cockpit as a bright orange vertical stripe on the left side of the windscreen. It looks texture mapped. I have to position the view angle just right to see it. Hmm. I see various problems at various airports, including these two, such as tears along seams in the terrain -- like there's an abrupt jump in ground elevation without any effort to connect the two levels -- but they typically aren't severe, no more than a meter or so vertically, and I don't see polygons up in the air. And I don't see any problem with the DC-3. I want to say that this is something odd about your drivers, but I'm too ignorant of this stuff to be sure. Is it only ATI people that see this stuff? Do all ATI people see this stuff The problem at EGNM I mentioned is on several NVidia based systems. As I said though - it's nowhere near as severe as in those screenshots. I'll try and grab an example tonight. There are some problems of levels over at EGMH (Manston). Much improved aver previous scenery releases though. Regards, Vivian ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
On Thursday 29 July 2004 03:06, Chris Metzler wrote: cc'ing this to make sure you see the reply . . . On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 17:07:55 +0200 Frederic Bouvier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lee Elliott replying to Josh Babcock: I get the same ground poly problems that you seem to be getting with your new ATI driver, except I've been getting them for some time now. It actually only seems to be the airfield polys that are affected but you'll often see it with airfields that are a long way away, to the extent that you can't see the airfield itself but only the displaced polys as they sick up through the haze, sometimes to many tens of thousand of feet. Could you post screenshots ? Josh sent me along a few screenshots to illustrate the ground poly bugginess he's seeing near airports. They can be found at: http://www.speakeasy.net/~cmetzler/fgfs-screen-002.jpg http://www.speakeasy.net/~cmetzler/fgfs-screen-003.jpg http://www.speakeasy.net/~cmetzler/fgfs-screen-004.jpg Weird stuff. What airports are these? -c That's what I'm seeing too. I notice it on most airfields and I certainly get it at KSFO, and I can see it happening at KOAK and KHAF, in the distance - some these polys get stretched pretty big. I don't think it's an airfield specific thing. LeeE ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
On Thursday 29 July 2004 05:08, Josh Babcock wrote: Chris Metzler wrote: cc'ing this to make sure you see the reply . . . On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 17:07:55 +0200 Frederic Bouvier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lee Elliott replying to Josh Babcock: I get the same ground poly problems that you seem to be getting with your new ATI driver, except I've been getting them for some time now. It actually only seems to be the airfield polys that are affected but you'll often see it with airfields that are a long way away, to the extent that you can't see the airfield itself but only the displaced polys as they sick up through the haze, sometimes to many tens of thousand of feet. Could you post screenshots ? Josh sent me along a few screenshots to illustrate the ground poly bugginess he's seeing near airports. They can be found at: http://www.speakeasy.net/~cmetzler/fgfs-screen-002.jpg http://www.speakeasy.net/~cmetzler/fgfs-screen-003.jpg http://www.speakeasy.net/~cmetzler/fgfs-screen-004.jpg Weird stuff. What airports are these? -c KADW, and two from KONT. I have all the visual bells and whistles turned on except enhanced runway lighting, which also acts really weird (in fact, I think I'll send along some screenies of that too). Latest fglrx drivers on an old Radeon 8500. Kernel 2.4.22, XFree86 4.3.0. Moving just a few inches any direction or changing the view angle makes these things change wildly, or even go away. In fact, in the right spot they will flicker on and off. They only seem to appear when I am over an airport. There is also a poly in the dc3 model that does this no matter where I am. It always shows up from inside the cockpit as a bright orange vertical stripe on the left side of the windscreen. It looks texture mapped. I have to position the view angle just right to see it. Josh Ah - there's a slight difference - I get them on distant airfields too. This is on a 9200. LeeE ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
cc'ing this to make sure you see the reply . . . On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 17:07:55 +0200 Frederic Bouvier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lee Elliott replying to Josh Babcock: I get the same ground poly problems that you seem to be getting with your new ATI driver, except I've been getting them for some time now. It actually only seems to be the airfield polys that are affected but you'll often see it with airfields that are a long way away, to the extent that you can't see the airfield itself but only the displaced polys as they sick up through the haze, sometimes to many tens of thousand of feet. Could you post screenshots ? Josh sent me along a few screenshots to illustrate the ground poly bugginess he's seeing near airports. They can be found at: http://www.speakeasy.net/~cmetzler/fgfs-screen-002.jpg http://www.speakeasy.net/~cmetzler/fgfs-screen-003.jpg http://www.speakeasy.net/~cmetzler/fgfs-screen-004.jpg Weird stuff. What airports are these? -c -- Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove snip-me. to email) As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized. - Chief Luther Standing Bear pgpEXGuokx9UE.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
Chris Metzler wrote: cc'ing this to make sure you see the reply . . . On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 17:07:55 +0200 Frederic Bouvier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lee Elliott replying to Josh Babcock: I get the same ground poly problems that you seem to be getting with your new ATI driver, except I've been getting them for some time now. It actually only seems to be the airfield polys that are affected but you'll often see it with airfields that are a long way away, to the extent that you can't see the airfield itself but only the displaced polys as they sick up through the haze, sometimes to many tens of thousand of feet. Could you post screenshots ? Josh sent me along a few screenshots to illustrate the ground poly bugginess he's seeing near airports. They can be found at: http://www.speakeasy.net/~cmetzler/fgfs-screen-002.jpg http://www.speakeasy.net/~cmetzler/fgfs-screen-003.jpg http://www.speakeasy.net/~cmetzler/fgfs-screen-004.jpg Weird stuff. What airports are these? -c KADW, and two from KONT. I have all the visual bells and whistles turned on except enhanced runway lighting, which also acts really weird (in fact, I think I'll send along some screenies of that too). Latest fglrx drivers on an old Radeon 8500. Kernel 2.4.22, XFree86 4.3.0. Moving just a few inches any direction or changing the view angle makes these things change wildly, or even go away. In fact, in the right spot they will flicker on and off. They only seem to appear when I am over an airport. There is also a poly in the dc3 model that does this no matter where I am. It always shows up from inside the cockpit as a bright orange vertical stripe on the left side of the windscreen. It looks texture mapped. I have to position the view angle just right to see it. Josh ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
On Sunday 25 July 2004 23:39, Peter Larson wrote: I get the same ground poly problems that you seem to be getting with your new ATI driver, except I've been getting them for some time now. It actually only seems to be the airfield polys that are affected but you'll often see it with airfields that are a long way away, to the extent that you can't see the airfield itself but only the displaced polys as they sick up through the haze, sometimes to many tens of thousand of feet. Are you able to fly at night i.e. when the sun is below the horizon? If I try flying in these conditions FG starts but crashes once I get a few hundred feet in the air and I think this is also due to the ATI drivers. I'm very new on FG, only been running it for two weeks. Also, my PC was just recently rebuilt, so pretty much everything in new. I was getting the segfault when I exited FG, but this disappeared when I installed the latest driver from the ATI web site. I've seen some comments that there are problems with some VIA chipsets and the ATI Radeon cards, so I have also installed the latest drivers for the motherboard. My machine was hanging when the resolution was greater than 1024 x 768, just running windows, so there is obviously some clashes there. since I did this, I havn't tried higher than 1024 resolution, so I don't know if I've actually fixed the problem. Are you using an ATI card? The problems you described are similar, especially the long distance problems. I assumed at first that is was really bad sheet lightning graphics until I noticed they were coming from the ground! Yep - I'm using an ATi card. I've had FG hang once in a night flight, possibly around 100 seconds, as others indicated in this thread. I'll pay more detail from now on, as I've assumed most of my problems up until now have been motherboard/video clashes. Peter I'm pretty certain that these problem are due to the ATI drivers - using the same FG s/w versions on other systems with old Matrox cards is fine. I've also had problems with other s/w that seems to be clearly linked to the ATI drivers too. LeeE ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
Peter Larson wrote: Not sure this is the right forum, I'm getting coloured apostraphe shapes around 200 pixels high on the screen. They appear to be related to runway lights. They also appear while the sim is in the air. I'm running Windows XP Pro with a Radeon 9200SE video card and Gigabyte GA-7VT600 motherboard. Drivers all loaded within the last week. Any ideas? Regards Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.718 / Virus Database: 474 - Release Date: 9/07/2004 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel I also have this problem, and have been having it for several months, using many different CVS versions and several different fglrx versions. You can make it go away by turning off enhanced runway lighting. Do you also get segfault s after flying at night for a few minutes? I have this problem as well, though it started later (I think), but not by much. I have no workaround for this one. I have a few straces that all end the same way laying around from this one, if anyone is interested in looking at them. Also, with the latest ATI driver, I started seeing random ground vertexes shifted around, sometimes leaving entire ground polys up in the air, and many holes in the terrain. These come and go as I move about and are most common over airports. I haven't gone back to an old driver to confirm that this is in fact the driver, and not a coincidence of updating the driver and fgfs source code at the same time, though I'm pretty sure it was the driver update that started it. display: :0.0 screen: 0 OpenGL vendor string: ATI Technologies Inc. OpenGL renderer string: RADEON 8500 DDR Generic OpenGL version string: 1.3 (X4.3.0-3.9.0) Linux tower 2.4.22 #24 Fri Nov 14 19:34:40 EST 2003 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux Josh ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
On Saturday 24 July 2004 14:38, Josh Babcock wrote: Peter Larson wrote: Not sure this is the right forum, I'm getting coloured apostraphe shapes around 200 pixels high on the screen. They appear to be related to runway lights. They also appear while the sim is in the air. I'm running Windows XP Pro with a Radeon 9200SE video card and Gigabyte GA-7VT600 motherboard. Drivers all loaded within the last week. Any ideas? Regards Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.718 / Virus Database: 474 - Release Date: 9/07/2004 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel I also have this problem, and have been having it for several months, using many different CVS versions and several different fglrx versions. You can make it go away by turning off enhanced runway lighting. Do you also get segfault s after flying at night for a few minutes? I have this problem as well, though it started later (I think), but not by much. I have no workaround for this one. I have a few straces that all end the same way laying around from this one, if anyone is interested in looking at them. Also, with the latest ATI driver, I started seeing random ground vertexes shifted around, sometimes leaving entire ground polys up in the air, and many holes in the terrain. These come and go as I move about and are most common over airports. I haven't gone back to an old driver to confirm that this is in fact the driver, and not a coincidence of updating the driver and fgfs source code at the same time, though I'm pretty sure it was the driver update that started it. display: :0.0 screen: 0 OpenGL vendor string: ATI Technologies Inc. OpenGL renderer string: RADEON 8500 DDR Generic OpenGL version string: 1.3 (X4.3.0-3.9.0) Linux tower 2.4.22 #24 Fri Nov 14 19:34:40 EST 2003 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux Josh I get the same ground poly problems that you seem to be getting with your new ATI driver, except I've been getting them for some time now. It actually only seems to be the airfield polys that are affected but you'll often see it with airfields that are a long way away, to the extent that you can't see the airfield itself but only the displaced polys as they sick up through the haze, sometimes to many tens of thousand of feet. Are you able to fly at night i.e. when the sun is below the horizon? If I try flying in these conditions FG starts but crashes once I get a few hundred feet in the air and I think this is also due to the ATI drivers. LeeE ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
On Saturday 24 July 2004 15:35, Lee Elliott wrote: On Saturday 24 July 2004 14:38, Josh Babcock wrote: Peter Larson wrote: Not sure this is the right forum, I'm getting coloured apostraphe shapes around 200 pixels high on the screen. They appear to be related to runway lights. They also appear while the sim is in the air. I'm running Windows XP Pro with a Radeon 9200SE video card and Gigabyte GA-7VT600 motherboard. Drivers all loaded within the last week. Any ideas? Regards Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.718 / Virus Database: 474 - Release Date: 9/07/2004 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel I also have this problem, and have been having it for several months, using many different CVS versions and several different fglrx versions. You can make it go away by turning off enhanced runway lighting. Do you also get segfault s after flying at night for a few minutes? I have this problem as well, though it started later (I think), but not by much. I have no workaround for this one. I have a few straces that all end the same way laying around from this one, if anyone is interested in looking at them. Also, with the latest ATI driver, I started seeing random ground vertexes shifted around, sometimes leaving entire ground polys up in the air, and many holes in the terrain. These come and go as I move about and are most common over airports. I haven't gone back to an old driver to confirm that this is in fact the driver, and not a coincidence of updating the driver and fgfs source code at the same time, though I'm pretty sure it was the driver update that started it. display: :0.0 screen: 0 OpenGL vendor string: ATI Technologies Inc. OpenGL renderer string: RADEON 8500 DDR Generic OpenGL version string: 1.3 (X4.3.0-3.9.0) Linux tower 2.4.22 #24 Fri Nov 14 19:34:40 EST 2003 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux Josh I get the same ground poly problems that you seem to be getting with your new ATI driver, except I've been getting them for some time now. It actually only seems to be the airfield polys that are affected but you'll often see it with airfields that are a long way away, to the extent that you can't see the airfield itself but only the displaced polys as they sick up through the haze, sometimes to many tens of thousand of feet. Are you able to fly at night i.e. when the sun is below the horizon? If I try flying in these conditions FG starts but crashes once I get a few hundred feet in the air and I think this is also due to the ATI drivers. LeeE Oops! - I see you already have the night problem too - dunno why I missed that. LeeE ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
I get the same ground poly problems that you seem to be getting with your new ATI driver, except I've been getting them for some time now. It actually only seems to be the airfield polys that are affected but you'll often see it with airfields that are a long way away, to the extent that you can't see the airfield itself but only the displaced polys as they sick up through the haze, sometimes to many tens of thousand of feet. Could you post screenshots ? -Fred ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
Frederic Bouvier wrote: I get the same ground poly problems that you seem to be getting with your new ATI driver, except I've been getting them for some time now. It actually only seems to be the airfield polys that are affected but you'll often see it with airfields that are a long way away, to the extent that you can't see the airfield itself but only the displaced polys as they sick up through the haze, sometimes to many tens of thousand of feet. Could you post screenshots ? -Fred ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel If someone gives me an ftp site to put them on. Josh ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
Lee Elliott wrote:
Are you able to fly at night i.e. when the sun is below the horizon? If I try
flying in these conditions FG starts but crashes once I get a few hundred
feet in the air and I think this is also due to the ATI drivers.
Yeah, that's the problem I get. Once the sun is below the horizon, I have about
one hundred seconds until it segfaults. With the old ATI driver, this would
hang X, but the latest one survives fgfs segfaulting. The end of the stack
trace always looks roughly the same too:
read(14, 0xa57f244, 8) = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily
unavailable)
getpid()= 4368
ioctl(6, 0x4008642a, 0xb4e8)= 0
getpid()= 4368
getpid()= 4368
ioctl(6, 0x4008642a, 0xbfffec18)= 0
ioctl(6, 0x4008642a, 0xbfffead8)= 0
getpid()= 4368
getpid()= 4368
ioctl(6, 0x4008642a, 0xb668)= 0
getpid()= 4368
ioctl(5, FIONREAD, [0]) = 0
gettimeofday({1090465804, 754367}, {240, 0}) = 0
time(NULL) = 1090465804
time(NULL) = 1090465804
gettimeofday({1090465804, 754995}, {240, 0}) = 0
gettimeofday({1090465804, 755221}, {240, 0}) = 0
select(1024, [12 13], [13], NULL, {0, 0}) = 0 (Timeout)
time(NULL) = 1090465804
read(14, 0xa57f244, 8) = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily
unavailable)
getpid()= 4368
ioctl(6, 0x4008642a, 0xb4e8)= 0
getpid()= 4368
getpid()= 4368
ioctl(6, 0x4008642a, 0xbfffec18)= 0
ioctl(6, 0x4008642a, 0xbfffead8)= 0
getpid()= 4368
getpid()= 4368
ioctl(6, 0x4008642a, 0xb668)= 0
getpid()= 4368
ioctl(5, FIONREAD, [0]) = 0
gettimeofday({1090465804, 793631}, {240, 0}) = 0
time(NULL) = 1090465804
time(NULL) = 1090465804
gettimeofday({1090465804, 794071}, {240, 0}) = 0
gettimeofday({1090465804, 794347}, {240, 0}) = 0
gettimeofday({1090465804, 794391}, {240, 0}) = 0
time(NULL) = 1090465804
read(14, 0xa57f244, 8) = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily
unavailable)
getpid()= 4368
ioctl(6, 0x4008642a, 0xb4e8)= 0
getpid()= 4368
getpid()= 4368
ioctl(6, 0x4008642a, 0xbfffec18)= 0
ioctl(6, 0x4008642a, 0xbfffead8)= 0
getpid()= 4368
--- SIGSEGV (Segmentation fault) @ 0 (0) ---
+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++
Josh
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
Send them to me in an attachment. Regards, Ampere On July 24, 2004 12:04 pm, Josh Babcock wrote: If someone gives me an ftp site to put them on. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
I get the same ground poly problems that you seem to be getting with your new ATI driver, except I've been getting them for some time now. It actually only seems to be the airfield polys that are affected but you'll often see it with airfields that are a long way away, to the extent that you can't see the airfield itself but only the displaced polys as they sick up through the haze, sometimes to many tens of thousand of feet. Are you able to fly at night i.e. when the sun is below the horizon? If I try flying in these conditions FG starts but crashes once I get a few hundred feet in the air and I think this is also due to the ATI drivers. I'm very new on FG, only been running it for two weeks. Also, my PC was just recently rebuilt, so pretty much everything in new. I was getting the segfault when I exited FG, but this disappeared when I installed the latest driver from the ATI web site. I've seen some comments that there are problems with some VIA chipsets and the ATI Radeon cards, so I have also installed the latest drivers for the motherboard. My machine was hanging when the resolution was greater than 1024 x 768, just running windows, so there is obviously some clashes there. since I did this, I havn't tried higher than 1024 resolution, so I don't know if I've actually fixed the problem. Are you using an ATI card? The problems you described are similar, especially the long distance problems. I assumed at first that is was really bad sheet lightning graphics until I noticed they were coming from the ground! I've had FG hang once in a night flight, possibly around 100 seconds, as others indicated in this thread. I'll pay more detail from now on, as I've assumed most of my problems up until now have been motherboard/video clashes. Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.718 / Virus Database: 474 - Release Date: 9/07/2004 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] lights flaring on runways in FG
Not sure this is the right forum, I'm getting coloured apostraphe shapes around 200 pixels high on the screen. They appear to be related to runway lights. They also appear while the sim is in the air. I'm running Windows XP Pro with a Radeon 9200SE video card and Gigabyte GA-7VT600 motherboard. Drivers all loaded within the last week. Any ideas? Regards Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.718 / Virus Database: 474 - Release Date: 9/07/2004 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Lights and plib
I've not even tried if moving the objects in (0,0,0) makes them work fine. I'll try today (perharps, if I've enought time). About the textures problem I've asked some time ago on the PLIB mailing list and we've found that 3dsMAX doesn't use a standard to read the rgb files. So it seems that it load them upside down respect to PLIB loader. However it's a minor problem, that could be solved quicky. Or are there different 3ds format versions? If I understand the question, I could tell you that the ASE format is different from 3ds format. It's like the ac3d files, where all the informations about the scene are readable (the data it's not compressed or codified). Hi, Luca ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Lights problems
Hi, I've couldn't answer more quickly because I couldn't read the mail in the past two days. However, now I find that I've not placed correctly the objects in (0,0,0) but I leave them in the place that they will have to go (now I understand because the one's in the elicopter are in (0,0,0) and then moved in the right place). Now I'll make some attempts. About the ASE format it works fine but that's only a problem with the rgb textures due to the fact that plib and 3dsMAX use different coordinates for them but it could be solved mirroring the textures. My question about the lights was born because in 3ds I could add lights that could be exported in the ASE file but that aren't supported by FlightGear or PLIB. Hi, Luca ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Lights question
Hi, I'm working on a new aircraft model but I've some problems with the lights. I've tried to add the nav lights (like the ones in the c310u3a and p51d) but they become black, like the airplane, when the night falls. I'm working with 3dsMAX, maybe the problem is the colour assgned to the objects but I've made several attempts without any change. If it's important, the electronic entity is the one used in the p51d. Congratulations to the new father. Hi, Luca ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights question
Luca Masera wrote: Hi, I'm working on a new aircraft model but I've some problems with the lights. I've tried to add the nav lights (like the ones in the c310u3a and p51d) but they become black, like the airplane, when the night falls. I'm working with 3dsMAX, maybe the problem is the colour assgned to the objects but I've made several attempts without any change. If it's important, the electronic entity is the one used in the p51d. Do you use emissive color for your light ? In the .ac file, it is in the Material line, after the emis keyword. -Fred ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
