Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Sorry Erik I don't want offend anyone here But If I know that shaders will be used sometimes in fgfs I will work on them but there are a lot of work to do and if anyone colud help me we can work on it. So I propose this http://fgfs.narod.ru/glsl.tar.gz as framework for using shaders in fgfs. What do you think about it? We can discuss it. if we will work on this shader framework we can make things better. Thanx in advance Bye - Original Message - From: Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows Roman Grigoriev wrote: But fgfs community refuse to use it :( You could have made it easier if you had adopted FlightGear's rules for platform independent OpenGL extension support, kept the code style close to what is used in FlightGear, didn't add a new class at a place where it doesn't belong and prevented buffer overflows yourself. It requires just too much time to clean up the code before it would become useful. Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
On June 21, 2005 03:34 am, Roman Grigoriev wrote: to Harald JOHNSEN: spot lights in fgfs I had 3 years ago. they worked on vertex program and registercombiners but everyone afraid of vertex programs and multitexturing You can see some screens here http://fgfs.narod.ru In my opinion, if the code exists already, then it shouldn't be wasted. Just a couple of questions: What is the performance hit as a percentage of the highest framerate? What is the minimal graphic card requirment? Would you mind explaining how your code works? I understand that you have a framework for this. Would you mind explaining to me what this framework is and how it works? How flexible is this particular code? For example, can the inside of the hangar be lit? Can the light be cast on to other objects beside the ground? Thanks in advance, Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Roman Grigoriev wrote: Sorry Erik I don't want offend anyone here But If I know that shaders will be used sometimes in fgfs I will work on them but there are a lot of work to do and if anyone colud help me we can work on it. So I propose this http://fgfs.narod.ru/glsl.tar.gz as framework for using shaders in fgfs. What do you think about it? We can discuss it. if we will work on this shader framework we can make things better. I would like to add support for them, just in the proper way. That's why it is still in my TODO box. It's just the time ... Here are a few things to consider: 1. Move the Shader class over to a new file (probably shader.cxx and shader.hxx) in SimGear/simgear/screen 2. Use the SimGear extension header files (you will probably need to extend them (see FlightGear/docs-mini/README.extensions) Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
- Original Message - From: Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows Roman Grigoriev wrote: Sorry Erik I don't want offend anyone here But If I know that shaders will be used sometimes in fgfs I will work on them but there are a lot of work to do and if anyone colud help me we can work on it. So I propose this http://fgfs.narod.ru/glsl.tar.gz as framework for using shaders in fgfs. What do you think about it? We can discuss it. if we will work on this shader framework we can make things better. I would like to add support for them, just in the proper way. That's why it is still in my TODO box. It's just the time ... Here are a few things to consider: 1. Move the Shader class over to a new file (probably shader.cxx and shader.hxx) in SimGear/simgear/screen 2. Use the SimGear extension header files (you will probably need to extend them (see FlightGear/docs-mini/README.extensions) Erik I think that you are right Erik! But I propose a technique and you Erik - fgfs maitainer, so you can decide where to put this classes I think this shader method have advantages that shaders are in text files that can be changed by users without compiling all simgear and flightgear sources. This framework add you functionality to optimize shaders to you current architecture (NV/ATI or other machines) so we have higher framerates. because you can specify shaders that can be loaded to NV only or ATI only and during fgfs startup we can detect archtecture and load proper shader. for example using NV shaders on NV hardware can get 20% boost to framerate. and detection of hardware is so easy you can only querry about NV_fragment_program extension - so you have NV hardware overwise -ATI or other videocard. But I don't know about SGI - does this architecture support shaders at all? So I think that if you add new classes to simgear people can start using them and mekes things better. Roman ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Roman Grigoriev wrote: But I don't know about SGI - does this architecture support shaders at all? So I think that if you add new classes to simgear people can start using them and mekes things better. SGI, ehm, well yes, sort of. They invented the shaders, but only have a software (CPU) implementation available ... Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Ok Ampere I try to explain so forgive me to my bad english Lets start from simple For example about runway lights http://fgfs.narod.ru/glsl.tar.gz I think that its' not good to use sphere mapping for runway lights points to calculate visibility and have using triangles instead points. - so you have huge framerate drops on NV. but points are quads in close view so you have to use point smooth extesion have give us framerate drop. So I decided to use NV_point_sprite extension http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/registry/NV/point_sprite.txt that supported from geforce4 or hier now we have ARB_point_sprite that supports on ATI too ( but I have NV GFX5950 so I develop on this hardware) to have they smoohed and have glares on them like on this screen - http://fgfs.narod.ru/fgfs-006.jpg I take tga grayscale image with glare and put them into runway light point. using points instead of polygons - great benefit because you only need 1 vertex insted of 3. but we can calculate visibility to directed runway lights. w/o shaders you have to use sphere mapping but now we can use shaders and get benefit from if. in scenery file (.stg) you have for runway lights vertex positions, normals and color so normal of runway light - is wnat we need to use because it a visibility vector and we have view vector only we need to dot3 them and we have visibility from 0 to 1 that 0- not visible and 1 full visibility. also in vertex shader we calculate point size - to have them faded on distances. visibility of lightpoint is placed to alpha channel and goes to blender stage ( fragment shader) here we have to add fog formulas and render them. Its a short story how to render lightpoints :) I advice you to see to sources http://fgfs.narod.ru/glsl.tar.gz more deeply to understand I run it on GFX5950 linux 6629 (I don't try it on windows but it should work) - If you have ATI you simply shange NV_point_sprite to ARB_point_sprite but on nvidia hardware this can be slowdown 5-10%. If you need more explanation I can give them but I suggest you to read about shaders in Internet and visited some sites www.delphi3d.net www.humus.ca http://developer.nvidia.com to see some examples. Thanx in advance Roman - Original Message - From: Ampere K. Hardraade [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:14 AM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows On June 21, 2005 03:34 am, Roman Grigoriev wrote: to Harald JOHNSEN: spot lights in fgfs I had 3 years ago. they worked on vertex program and registercombiners but everyone afraid of vertex programs and multitexturing You can see some screens here http://fgfs.narod.ru In my opinion, if the code exists already, then it shouldn't be wasted. Just a couple of questions: What is the performance hit as a percentage of the highest framerate? What is the minimal graphic card requirment? Would you mind explaining how your code works? I understand that you have a framework for this. Would you mind explaining to me what this framework is and how it works? How flexible is this particular code? For example, can the inside of the hangar be lit? Can the light be cast on to other objects beside the ground? Thanks in advance, Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
- Original Message - From: Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 12:35 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows Roman Grigoriev wrote: But I don't know about SGI - does this architecture support shaders at all? So I think that if you add new classes to simgear people can start using them and mekes things better. SGI, ehm, well yes, sort of. They invented the shaders, but only have a software (CPU) implementation available ... SO sorry to hear it but it's a reality in wich we live. Roman Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Roman Grigoriev wrote: [...] because you can specify shaders that can be loaded to NV only or ATI only and during fgfs startup we can detect archtecture and load proper shader. for example using NV shaders on NV hardware can get 20% boost to framerate. and detection of hardware is so easy you can only querry about NV_fragment_program extension - so you have NV hardware overwise -ATI or other videocard. Are you really willing to write special support for every piece of hardware that's out there ? I slightly suspect that this will probably not happen !? Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
- Original Message - From: Martin Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: list.flightgear-devel To: flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows Roman Grigoriev wrote: [...] because you can specify shaders that can be loaded to NV only or ATI only and during fgfs startup we can detect archtecture and load proper shader. for example using NV shaders on NV hardware can get 20% boost to framerate. and detection of hardware is so easy you can only querry about NV_fragment_program extension - so you have NV hardware overwise -ATI or other videocard. Are you really willing to write special support for every piece of hardware that's out there ? I slightly suspect that this will probably not happen !? We can simply use ARB extension - that support on ATI and NV but if you want get some boost knowing some aspects of architecture sometimes up to 30% you can simple use vendor specific extentions. That's it that I want to say. And we can begin to use ARB extentions and after that we can add vendor specific extensions. Roman Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Roman Grigoriev wrote: We can simply use ARB extension - that support on ATI and NV but if you want get some boost knowing some aspects of architecture sometimes up to 30% you can simple use vendor specific extentions. I simply fear exactly such proceeding this will manouvre FG into (a) vendor specific corner(s) and offend numerous users, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Martin Spott Roman Grigoriev wrote: We can simply use ARB extension - that support on ATI and NV but if you want get some boost knowing some aspects of architecture sometimes up to 30% you can simple use vendor specific extentions. I simply fear exactly such proceeding this will manouvre FG into (a) vendor specific corner(s) and offend numerous users, Not if Roman makes the hardware-specific extensions user-selectable, and as I understand it, that is his proposal. I think Roman should press on with this at full speed. It's been hanging around for years. I would love to have some code to test. It all looks very attractive. Regards, Vivian ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Roman Grigoriev wrote: I would like to add support for them, just in the proper way. That's why it is still in my TODO box. It's just the time ... Here are a few things to consider: 1. Move the Shader class over to a new file (probably shader.cxx and shader.hxx) in SimGear/simgear/screen 2. Use the SimGear extension header files (you will probably need to extend them (see FlightGear/docs-mini/README.extensions) Erik I think that you are right Erik! But I propose a technique and you Erik - fgfs maitainer, so you can decide where to put this classes I second what Erik said, extract your code from render.cxx and put them in separates files. Then it will be easier to use your code for new effects, no need for me to reinvente the wheel :-) since you allready have exprerience with shaders. I think this shader method have advantages that shaders are in text files that can be changed by users without compiling all simgear and flightgear sources. Good thing. This framework add you functionality to optimize shaders to you current architecture (NV/ATI or other machines) so we have higher framerates. because you can specify shaders that can be loaded to NV only or ATI only and during fgfs startup we can detect archtecture and load proper shader. for example using NV shaders on NV hardware can get 20% boost to framerate. and detection of hardware is so easy you can only querry about NV_fragment_program extension - so you have NV hardware overwise -ATI or other videocard. Ok, but we must at least have a generic hardware independant shader (arb or glsl). But I don't know about SGI - does this architecture support shaders at all? So I think that if you add new classes to simgear people can start using them and mekes things better. Roman And of course shaders don't replace existing code (they can replace existing effect), they are allways optional. I'll have a deeper look at your code in a few days, I need to finish the shadow code atm. Harald. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
to Harald JOHNSEN: spot lights in fgfs I had 3 years ago. they worked on vertex program and registercombiners but everyone afraid of vertex programs and multitexturing You can see some screens here http://fgfs.narod.ru But I work on it and now I have runway lights, landing lights, relief mapping , DXT compression and another cool stuff that work on fragment and vertex program But fgfs community refuse to use it :( to sad to hear it :(( but I have framework to use shaders from VP1.0 to GLSL in fgfs but you have some influence in fgfs community so I think you can do what I haven't done yet - have flightgear looks better by using some modern stuff. we can discuss about shaders with you feel free to mail me Thanx in advance Bye - Original Message - From: Ampere K. Hardraade [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows On June 20, 2005 12:53 pm, Harald JOHNSEN wrote: You are a genius, forget my previous reply. We can't lighten pixels from the framebuffer because of the low precision (8 bits) but we can of course darken them. Algo (works better at full night) : 1) render the scene and all non emissive geometry with a 'day' ambient term 2) render all lights (or emissive geometry) and update the stencil buffer ( stencil := 1) 3) render a quad on screen to darken everything where stencil == 0 with 1 3 the scenery goes dark/black as usual with 2 the scenery in light stay illuminated Its quasi free, simple, support a million (fake) spot light ;) Harald. Nice! We will finally be able to see at night in FlightGear. =) On June 20, 2005 04:15 pm, Josh Babcock wrote: I think the shadows are cool, but I think that being able to have spotlights is just awesome. Perhaps we should start thinking about how this will be implemented from the modeler's perspective. ... A really cool bit of eye candy would be to make a visible cone of light that would change intensity based on how much moisture is in the air. That can even produce blinding reflection in a heavy fog, which IMO would be very cool to see. It would be great to see two beams stabbing out in front of a landing jetliner! To increase flexibility, I think it would be a good idea to allow the modeller to specify the light volume. This way, the spot light can take the shape of a star if the modeller desires. So, to light the interior of a hangar, all there would need is a box that is as big as the hangar itself. For normal spot light, the modeller can specify a cone as the light volume. For a linear light source, the modeller can use a triangular prism to outline the space being lit. The modeller-specified object can also be served to control the parameters of the spot light. Obviously, the width of the beam would be proportional the the thickness of the object. In addition to using XML to control the brightness of the light source, the size of the object itself can be used to calculate the brightness factor. The color of the object would be a contributing factor to the color of the light source. The modeller-specified object should not be hidden by default, however. The modeller would have to make the object hidden manually by setting the object's opacity to zero. An object that is not totally transparent will be self illuminating. This way, places such as hangar interiors can be served as prop and acted as the light volume simultaneously. I guess it would still be up to the modeler to provide Melchior style billboards so that the actual light would be visible. I'm not sure how one would deal with the directionality of the light though. One can also add lights for the nav lights. Imagine being able to look out the cockpit window and see your anti-collision lights reflecting off the ramp! Yes. The same idea occured to me while I was coming home on the bus. =) Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Le mardi 21 juin 2005 à 11:34 +0400, Roman Grigoriev a écrit : to Harald JOHNSEN: spot lights in fgfs I had 3 years ago. they worked on vertex program and registercombiners but everyone afraid of vertex programs and multitexturing You can see some screens here http://fgfs.narod.ru But I work on it and now I have runway lights, landing lights, relief mapping , DXT compression and another cool stuff that work on fragment and vertex program But fgfs community refuse to use it :( to sad to hear it :(( but I have framework to use shaders from VP1.0 to GLSL in fgfs but you have some influence in fgfs community so I think you can do what I haven't done yet - have flightgear looks better by using some modern stuff. we can discuss about shaders with you feel free to mail me Thanx in advance Bye That is beautiful which put away any others games (flight) simulators (don't push me to give a name) Here is a good example of parallel development. An energy which must be used. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
But I work on it and now I have runway lights, landing lights, relief mapping , DXT compression and another cool stuff that work on fragment and vertex program Where can one download the code? Giles Robertson ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Le mardi 21 juin 2005 à 11:34 +0400, Roman Grigoriev a écrit : to Harald JOHNSEN: spot lights in fgfs I had 3 years ago. they worked on vertex program and registercombiners but everyone afraid of vertex programs and multitexturing You can see some screens here http://fgfs.narod.ru But I work on it and now I have runway lights, landing lights, relief mapping , DXT compression and another cool stuff that work on fragment and vertex program But fgfs community refuse to use it :( to sad to hear it :(( but I have framework to use shaders from VP1.0 to GLSL in fgfs but you have some influence in fgfs community so I think you can do what I haven't done yet - have flightgear looks better by using some modern stuff. we can discuss about shaders with you feel free to mail me Thanx in advance Bye Hello Roman, have you any patch which could be applied on fg-9.8 I guess, it could be a great pleasure to test it. thank -- Gerard ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
- Original Message - From: Gerard Robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows Le mardi 21 juin 2005 à 11:34 +0400, Roman Grigoriev a écrit : to Harald JOHNSEN: spot lights in fgfs I had 3 years ago. they worked on vertex program and registercombiners but everyone afraid of vertex programs and multitexturing You can see some screens here http://fgfs.narod.ru But I work on it and now I have runway lights, landing lights, relief mapping , DXT compression and another cool stuff that work on fragment and vertex program But fgfs community refuse to use it :( to sad to hear it :(( but I have framework to use shaders from VP1.0 to GLSL in fgfs but you have some influence in fgfs community so I think you can do what I haven't done yet - have flightgear looks better by using some modern stuff. we can discuss about shaders with you feel free to mail me Thanx in advance Bye Hello Roman, have you any patch which could be applied on fg-9.8 I guess, it could be a great pleasure to test it. If you intrested in I can prepare it give me some time to test it with flightgear CVS thank -- Gerard ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Le mardi 21 juin 2005 à 16:02 +0400, Roman Grigoriev a écrit : - Original Message - From: Gerard Robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows Le mardi 21 juin 2005 à 11:34 +0400, Roman Grigoriev a écrit : to Harald JOHNSEN: spot lights in fgfs I had 3 years ago. they worked on vertex program and registercombiners but everyone afraid of vertex programs and multitexturing You can see some screens here http://fgfs.narod.ru But I work on it and now I have runway lights, landing lights, relief mapping , DXT compression and another cool stuff that work on fragment and vertex program But fgfs community refuse to use it :( to sad to hear it :(( but I have framework to use shaders from VP1.0 to GLSL in fgfs but you have some influence in fgfs community so I think you can do what I haven't done yet - have flightgear looks better by using some modern stuff. we can discuss about shaders with you feel free to mail me Thanx in advance Bye Hello Roman, have you any patch which could be applied on fg-9.8 I guess, it could be a great pleasure to test it. If you intrested in I can prepare it give me some time to test it with flightgear CVS Yes, thanks, i hope, i will not be alone to test it, The community should be interested in. The advantage, it is existing and working. -- Gerard ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
here I upload shader framework that supports shaders from VP1.0 to GLSL and have runway lights calculated in vertex shader and uses point sprites http://fgfs.narod.ru/glsl.tar.gz Tested on Nvidia Geforce5950 and linux 6629 drivers must compiled with -DGL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES key in C++ section of makefile Now I start integrate FBO extension in Harald clouds code to make render-to-texture more efficiently - Original Message - From: Gerard Robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@flightgear.org Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows Le mardi 21 juin 2005 à 11:34 +0400, Roman Grigoriev a écrit : to Harald JOHNSEN: spot lights in fgfs I had 3 years ago. they worked on vertex program and registercombiners but everyone afraid of vertex programs and multitexturing You can see some screens here http://fgfs.narod.ru But I work on it and now I have runway lights, landing lights, relief mapping , DXT compression and another cool stuff that work on fragment and vertex program But fgfs community refuse to use it :( to sad to hear it :(( but I have framework to use shaders from VP1.0 to GLSL in fgfs but you have some influence in fgfs community so I think you can do what I haven't done yet - have flightgear looks better by using some modern stuff. we can discuss about shaders with you feel free to mail me Thanx in advance Bye Hello Roman, have you any patch which could be applied on fg-9.8 I guess, it could be a great pleasure to test it. thank -- Gerard ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Le mardi 21 juin 2005 à 16:26 +0400, Roman Grigoriev a écrit : I found some earlier version of renderer.cxx I sent it w/o testing with fgfs CVS if It doesn't work please reply me but you can see my source OK, i will try to include it in fg 9.8 first, i need only some delay, and i will give you the answer. thanks -- Gerard ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Roman Grigoriev wrote: But fgfs community refuse to use it :( You could have made it easier if you had adopted FlightGear's rules for platform independent OpenGL extension support, kept the code style close to what is used in FlightGear, didn't add a new class at a place where it doesn't belong and prevented buffer overflows yourself. It requires just too much time to clean up the code before it would become useful. Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
Harald JOHNSEN wrote: Its quasi free, simple, support a million (fake) spot light ;) I think the shadows are cool, but I think that being able to have spotlights is just awesome. Perhaps we should start thinking about how this will be implemented from the modeler's perspective. I can see the following being pretty useful in the model.xml file: PropertyList light n=0 archive=y pos-x-m0/pos-x-m pos-y-m0/pos-y-m pos-z-m0/pos-z-m azimuth0/azimuth elevation0/elevation power-cp100/power-cp width-deg30/width-deg falloff-deg5/falloff-deg /light /PropertyList By executing commands against power-cp, azimuth and elevation you would be able to turn the light on and off and steer it, and width could be used to simulate spotlights focusing in and out. falloff-deg would represent the width of the band around the cone of light where the light transitions from full power to none. Whenever someone can implement colored lights, hue and saturation could be added (power-cp already takes the place of value in the HSV scheme). I guess it would still be up to the modeler to provide Melchior style billboards so that the actual light would be visible. I'm not sure how one would deal with the directionality of the light though. One could also add lights for the nav lights. Imagine being able to look out the cockpit window and see your anti-collision lights reflecting off the ramp! A really cool bit of eye candy would be to make a visible cone of light that would change intensity based on how much moisture is in the air. That could even produce blinding reflection in a heavy fog, which IMO would be very cool to see. It would be great to see two beams stabbing out in front of a landing jetliner! Josh ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lights was: Shadows
On June 20, 2005 12:53 pm, Harald JOHNSEN wrote: You are a genius, forget my previous reply. We can't lighten pixels from the framebuffer because of the low precision (8 bits) but we can of course darken them. Algo (works better at full night) : 1) render the scene and all non emissive geometry with a 'day' ambient term 2) render all lights (or emissive geometry) and update the stencil buffer ( stencil := 1) 3) render a quad on screen to darken everything where stencil == 0 with 1 3 the scenery goes dark/black as usual with 2 the scenery in light stay illuminated Its quasi free, simple, support a million (fake) spot light ;) Harald. Nice! We will finally be able to see at night in FlightGear. =) On June 20, 2005 04:15 pm, Josh Babcock wrote: I think the shadows are cool, but I think that being able to have spotlights is just awesome. Perhaps we should start thinking about how this will be implemented from the modeler's perspective. ... A really cool bit of eye candy would be to make a visible cone of light that would change intensity based on how much moisture is in the air. That can even produce blinding reflection in a heavy fog, which IMO would be very cool to see. It would be great to see two beams stabbing out in front of a landing jetliner! To increase flexibility, I think it would be a good idea to allow the modeller to specify the light volume. This way, the spot light can take the shape of a star if the modeller desires. So, to light the interior of a hangar, all there would need is a box that is as big as the hangar itself. For normal spot light, the modeller can specify a cone as the light volume. For a linear light source, the modeller can use a triangular prism to outline the space being lit. The modeller-specified object can also be served to control the parameters of the spot light. Obviously, the width of the beam would be proportional the the thickness of the object. In addition to using XML to control the brightness of the light source, the size of the object itself can be used to calculate the brightness factor. The color of the object would be a contributing factor to the color of the light source. The modeller-specified object should not be hidden by default, however. The modeller would have to make the object hidden manually by setting the object's opacity to zero. An object that is not totally transparent will be self illuminating. This way, places such as hangar interiors can be served as prop and acted as the light volume simultaneously. I guess it would still be up to the modeler to provide Melchior style billboards so that the actual light would be visible. I'm not sure how one would deal with the directionality of the light though. One can also add lights for the nav lights. Imagine being able to look out the cockpit window and see your anti-collision lights reflecting off the ramp! Yes. The same idea occured to me while I was coming home on the bus. =) Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
