Re: [Flightgear-devel] Opengl rendering

2005-06-17 Thread Lee Elliott
On Thursday 16 Jun 2005 21:52, Vivian Meazza wrote:
 Harald JOHNSEN

  I was thinking of using some pixel shader for one or two
  effects. This would be with the arbvp1  arbfp1 type shader.
  Of course I won't write them in assembler by would
  use Cg to produce the assembler source.
  The use or arb type program should limit the dependencies on
  standard opengl driver.
 
  But before starting anything like that I first want to know
  if : 1) people have program shader capable cards (ie FX5200+
  or ati9500+) No need to code lot of things if only 5% of the
  user can see them. Normaly a good percentage should have
  correct
  cards (or will have in the next 6 month) but I feel that
  some still use olders cards.
  2) you think it's a good idea to enhance a bit some visual
  aspect of Flightgear or you think that only simulation count
  and all the rest is useless eye candy ;)

 We should have the most realism that we can collectively
 produce, that's what sets us apart from other sims. (and being
 open of course).

 The advice I received here when I built demanding aircraft
 models was go right ahead: the hardware will soon catch up. It
 has.

 Just ensure that whatever you do can be switched off or
 degrades gracefully (preferably).

 V.

I think that a design philosophy that incorporates backwards 
compatibility is A Very Good Thing.  It's harder to start with 
but makes things much easier and more flexible in the longer 
term.

I guess I'm thinking about how FG is pretty monolithic and 
wondering how much of an over-head there might be in making it 
more modular.  Might also be worth thinking about parallelism 
aspects.

LeeE

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Opengl rendering

2005-06-17 Thread Gerard Robin
Le vendredi 17 juin 2005  22:37 +0100, Lee Elliott a crit :
 I had to patch FG, because i need a hight speed graphic card,
  I don't hope any come back from NVidia.
  The graphics card suplyer, don't take care with the old
  releases, they answer to the instant mass request.
  With FG Beware OpenGL 2.0.
 
 There is/was definite problem with the 7xxx nVidia drivers  FG.  
 Reverting back to the 69xx drivers works ok.  There is a patch 
 to the nVidia supplied source code that will enable it to be 
 compiled on 2.6.11 kernels.
 
 LeeE
 
Thanks for your help, BUT

  Sorry we are not talking the same subject and the same target.

For my usage i need an operational video card with Open GL  V2.0 fully
operational, with the higher speed. Only the last driver gives that
performance (7664). 

About old drivers i did used it a long time ago without patch first (old
linux release) and with patch after (new linux release), with an other
old NVidia Card. (just for the fun i benchmark my old video card and
the new one both with the same old driver, the benchmark gave slightly
the same performance)

You are talking to reduce the performance of my last video card by using
that old driver only to make FG running (sorry instead of degrading the
video card performance, if choose to reduce the functionalities of FG).
In the future, others will have to do that choice.

-- 
Gerard


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Opengl rendering

2005-06-16 Thread AJ MacLeod (email lists)
On Thursday 16 Jun 2005 19:34, Harald JOHNSEN wrote:
 I was thinking of using some pixel shader for one or two effects.
 But before starting anything like that I first want to know if :
 1) people have program shader capable cards (ie FX5200+ or ati9500+)

Personally speaking, no, I don't; I've a lowly MX420 which has been perfectly 
adequate for my use so far.  However

 2) you think it's a good idea to enhance a bit some visual aspect of
 Flightgear or you think that only simulation count
 and all the rest is useless eye candy ;)

That's not to say that if the eye candy was available in FG I wouldn't upgrade 
to take advantage of it!

I don't think there's any doubt that the physics and avionics simulation is 
the most important thing in this particular project.  At the same time, the 
visual aspects are not unimportant, as they are also a big part of the 
overall feel.

So long as the eye candy is easily disabled by those with creaking hardware, 
it can only be an improvement in my view.

AJ

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RE: [Flightgear-devel] Opengl rendering

2005-06-16 Thread Vivian Meazza
Harald JOHNSEN

 
 I was thinking of using some pixel shader for one or two effects.
 This would be with the arbvp1  arbfp1 type shader. Of course I won't
 write them in assembler by would
 use Cg to produce the assembler source.
 The use or arb type program should limit the dependencies on standard
 opengl driver.
 
 But before starting anything like that I first want to know if :
 1) people have program shader capable cards (ie FX5200+ or ati9500+)
 No need to code lot of things if only 5% of the user can see them.
 Normaly a good percentage should have correct
 cards (or will have in the next 6 month) but I feel that some still use
 olders cards.
 2) you think it's a good idea to enhance a bit some visual aspect of
 Flightgear or you think that only simulation count
 and all the rest is useless eye candy ;)
 

We should have the most realism that we can collectively produce, that's
what sets us apart from other sims. (and being open of course).  

The advice I received here when I built demanding aircraft models was go
right ahead: the hardware will soon catch up. It has.

Just ensure that whatever you do can be switched off or degrades gracefully
(preferably).

V. 



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Opengl rendering

2005-06-16 Thread Oliver C.
On Thursday 16 June 2005 20:34, Harald JOHNSEN wrote:
 I was thinking of using some pixel shader for one or two effects.
 This would be with the arbvp1  arbfp1 type shader. Of course I won't
 write them in assembler by would
 use Cg to produce the assembler source.
 The use or arb type program should limit the dependencies on standard
 opengl driver.

The GLSL is part of OpenGL 2.0 and NVidia has allready OpenGL 2.0 compliant 
drivers for Linux and Windows. So OpenGL 2.0 with GLSL is IMHO the way to go.
 


 But before starting anything like that I first want to know if :
 1) people have program shader capable cards (ie FX5200+ or ati9500+)
 No need to code lot of things if only 5% of the user can see them.
 Normaly a good percentage should have correct
 cards (or will have in the next 6 month) but I feel that some still use
 olders cards.

I have a Geforce 4 Ti but that's not a problem, i can upgrade later when it 
makes sense. :)
The only thing that is important for me now, is an option to turn it off
and it must stay vendor neutral and crossplatform compatible.
So, please don't use specific OpenGL Extensions that only run on
specific hardware. Instead use only what OpenGL 2.0 offers in a neutral way.

 No need to code lot of things if only 5% of the user can see them.
You can be sure, that i will be able to see it some day (in a couple of months 
- next videocard is allready planned).
So this shouldn't hinder you.

 2) you think it's a good idea to enhance a bit some visual aspect of
 Flightgear or you think that only simulation count
 and all the rest is useless eye candy ;)

No, i like eye candy very much and see it as an important factor for 
flightgear beside the physic code and other things.
So when you can improve it, then please, improve it. :)



Best Regards,
 Oliver C.




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Opengl rendering

2005-06-16 Thread Gerard Robin
Le jeudi 16 juin 2005  23:01 +0200, Oliver C. a crit : 
 On Thursday 16 June 2005 20:34, Harald JOHNSEN wrote:
  I was thinking of using some pixel shader for one or two effects.
  This would be with the arbvp1  arbfp1 type shader. Of course I won't
  write them in assembler by would
  use Cg to produce the assembler source.
  The use or arb type program should limit the dependencies on standard
  opengl driver.
 
 The GLSL is part of OpenGL 2.0 and NVidia has allready OpenGL 2.0 compliant 
 drivers for Linux and Windows. So OpenGL 2.0 with GLSL is IMHO the way to go.
  
 
 
  But before starting anything like that I first want to know if :
  1) people have program shader capable cards (ie FX5200+ or ati9500+)
  No need to code lot of things if only 5% of the user can see them.
  Normaly a good percentage should have correct
  cards (or will have in the next 6 month) but I feel that some still use
  olders cards.
 
 I have a Geforce 4 Ti but that's not a problem, i can upgrade later when it 
 makes sense. :)
 The only thing that is important for me now, is an option to turn it off
 and it must stay vendor neutral and crossplatform compatible.
 So, please don't use specific OpenGL Extensions that only run on
 specific hardware. Instead use only what OpenGL 2.0 offers in a neutral way.
 
  No need to code lot of things if only 5% of the user can see them.
 You can be sure, that i will be able to see it some day (in a couple of 
 months 
 - next videocard is allready planned).
 So this shouldn't hinder you.
 
  2) you think it's a good idea to enhance a bit some visual aspect of
  Flightgear or you think that only simulation count
  and all the rest is useless eye candy ;)
 
 No, i like eye candy very much and see it as an important factor for 
 flightgear beside the physic code and other things.
 So when you can improve it, then please, improve it. :)
 
 
 
 Best Regards,
  Oliver C.
 
 
Whe must pay attention about the New OpenGL 2.0.
You probably remember, recently i have been fighting with my new NVidia
GT6600 (OpenGL 2.0) and the last Linux driver (OpenGL 2.0), those are
perfectly working. 
BUT An Exception FG, does not.
I have found in FG itself a functionality about lighting animation which
makes the problem.
It was working with the older drivers (OpenGL 1.5).
I had to patch FG, because i need a hight speed graphic card, 
I don't hope any come back from NVidia.
The graphics card suplyer, don't take care with the old releases, they
answer to the instant mass request.
With FG Beware OpenGL 2.0.

-- 
Gerard


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