Re: [Flightgear-devel] link to my homepage
Martin Spott wrote: Curtis L. Olson wrote: I could also wish a few things. 1. That we treat everyone with respect. Yes please, with no exception!! The logical consequence would be that you (and maybe Arthur as well) give a _credible_ signal to us that you respect our faith as much as yours - instead of dividing the list menbers into the ones that share your belief and the 'inferior' ones that either share a different belief or are non-religious. I really would like this to end. The matter has been resolved because Arthur removed the offending document. Because of his strong believes I even think that's generous. I also didn't see any sign that Curt didn't respect anyone, in fact his responses have been rather neutral. If you push this any further we might even lose Curt as a project admin, I for one would not like to see that happen. Please, let's move on. Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-devel] link to my homepage
Erik Hofman wrote Martin Spott wrote: Curtis L. Olson wrote: I could also wish a few things. 1. That we treat everyone with respect. Yes please, with no exception!! The logical consequence would be that you (and maybe Arthur as well) give a _credible_ signal to us that you respect our faith as much as yours - instead of dividing the list menbers into the ones that share your belief and the 'inferior' ones that either share a different belief or are non-religious. I really would like this to end. The matter has been resolved because Arthur removed the offending document. Because of his strong believes I even think that's generous. I also didn't see any sign that Curt didn't respect anyone, in fact his responses have been rather neutral. If you push this any further we might even lose Curt as a project admin, I for one would not like to see that happen. Please, let's move on. Seconded. We must move on. Vivian ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] link to my homepage
On Saturday, 22 January 2005 13:01, Melchior FRANZ wrote: I hereby formally object to my name and my code contributions being dragged into potential religious conflicts, and to using them for proselytizing purposes. It's sad to see that the repeated calls for keeping political and other controversial stuff off FlightGear don't seem to apply any more. Please remove the link to my former flightgear page from http://www.flightgear.org/links.html (FlightGear: Support for joysticks with digital axes; which is quite outdated anyway) I'll happily join again, once flightgear treats all its users and developers again without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, *RELIGION*, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. m. Is this the way things should go? Melchior is not the only person who find the current situation unacceptable. Maybe I should make a package with a file included that says : Kill all 'em Niggers and get it put up on the FlightGear site. I say pull the package in question. If the author wants to distribute it on his own site then that is fine with me but as it stands it looks like we endorse what is in that package. I'd rather upset one contributor than piss off the whole FG community. Paul ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] link to my homepage
Paul Surgeon wrote: On Saturday, 22 January 2005 13:01, Melchior FRANZ wrote: I hereby formally object to my name and my code contributions being dragged into potential religious conflicts, and to using them for proselytizing purposes. It's sad to see that the repeated calls for keeping political and other controversial stuff off FlightGear don't seem to apply any more. Please remove the link to my former flightgear page from http://www.flightgear.org/links.html (FlightGear: Support for joysticks with digital axes; which is quite outdated anyway) I'll happily join again, once flightgear treats all its users and developers again without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, *RELIGION*, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. m. Is this the way things should go? Melchior is not the only person who find the current situation unacceptable. Maybe I should make a package with a file included that says : ** and get it put up on the FlightGear site. I say pull the package in question. If the author wants to distribute it on his own site then that is fine with me but as it stands it looks like we endorse what is in that package. I'd rather upset one contributor than piss off the whole FG community. Let's not lose sight of a couple facts: 1. This is all regarding the Mac OS X package. 2. The author has already agreed to make some changes to his package. 3. This package is distributed on a source forge project page registered and maintained by this same developer. 4. The objectionable file is inside the mac package. 5. No one else has volunteered to make a mac friendly package. So from this I conclude: 1. This situation should already be resolved. 2. We have nothing we can pull off flightgear.org even if we wanted to. 3. I don't own a mac, and the mac package is in a mac specific format, so I can't actually check what's going on myself. 4. If complaints are being registered by non-mac users, they can't actually see what's in the file either so their objections are likely to be a bit suspect. I could also wish a few things. 1. That we treat everyone with respect. 2. That we discuss this issue with the same civility that we manage for just about every other subject. 3. That perhaps we consider a personal email as a first attempt to resolve the issue before needlessly raising a fire storm on the mailing list. 4. Think about it, if any one of us did something inappropriate (we didn't intend the consequences, we didn't think through the ramifications of our actions enough, it seemed like a good idea at the time, etc.) wouldn't we prefer that our error be pointed out in private so we have a chance to think and rectify the problem ourselves ... rather than finding out there's a problem by a huge long tirade on the public mailing list, with all kinds of people piling on to express their outrage? In this case it turned into a feeding frenzy. Before we were done we had banned the developer from all our mailing lists. We had posted a big notice on our home page disavowing any connection to him. We had lobbied source forge to get him and all his other projects kicked off there. And we had beat him up any other number of ways on our email list. That's just great! When have we treated any other developer and contributer this way??? If he made a mistake fine, we can fix it peacefully and civilly. I think we can and *should* do a lot better. Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] link to my homepage
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:43:13 +0200, Paul wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Saturday, 22 January 2005 13:01, Melchior FRANZ wrote: I hereby formally object to my name and my code contributions being dragged into potential religious conflicts, and to using them for proselytizing purposes. It's sad to see that the repeated calls for keeping political and other controversial stuff off FlightGear don't seem to apply any more. Please remove the link to my former flightgear page from http://www.flightgear.org/links.html (FlightGear: Support for joysticks with digital axes; which is quite outdated anyway) I'll happily join again, once flightgear treats all its users and developers again without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, *RELIGION*, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. m. Is this the way things should go? Melchior is not the only person who find the current situation unacceptable. Maybe I should make a package with a file included that says : Kill all 'em Niggers and get it put up on the FlightGear site. I say pull the package in question. If the author wants to distribute it on his own site then that is fine with me but as it stands it looks like we endorse what is in that package. I'd rather upset one contributor than piss off the whole FG community. ..the only place where Jesusing etc is welcome IMO, is in your own .signature, _if_ it fits in 4 lines like mine. A link there is fine, if you can't cram in your opinions etc there, put those on a web server and link to it from your .signature, rather than try pass off all of the FlightGear people as Religious Righteous etc in a binary release. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] link to my homepage
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:43:13 +0200, Paul Surgeon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I say pull the package in question. If the author wants to distribute it on his own site then that is fine with me but as it stands it looks like we endorse what is in that package. I'd rather upset one contributor than piss off the whole FG community. Let's take this whole discussion offline, guys -- it has become a bit silly. All the best, David -- http://www.megginson.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] link to my homepage
On Saturday, January 22, 2005, at 09:27AM, Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let's not lose sight of a couple facts: 1. This is all regarding the Mac OS X package. 2. The author has already agreed to make some changes to his package. 3. This package is distributed on a source forge project page registered and maintained by this same developer. 4. The objectionable file is inside the mac package. 5. No one else has volunteered to make a mac friendly package. I strongly disagree with #5 as I have been building the last two releases of the MacOS X version of FlightGear, but they haven't been picked up and moved to the FlightGear web page. Because I don't have infinite storage, Ican't keep them around forever. This is mainly becasue I was asked to include the base packages as a part of the release. If someone would be willing to take the update, I can have a version ready this afternoon. Of COURSE they can do that. They're engineers! ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] link to my homepage
Jonathan Polley wrote: On Saturday, January 22, 2005, at 09:27AM, Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let's not lose sight of a couple facts: 1. This is all regarding the Mac OS X package. 2. The author has already agreed to make some changes to his package. 3. This package is distributed on a source forge project page registered and maintained by this same developer. 4. The objectionable file is inside the mac package. 5. No one else has volunteered to make a mac friendly package. I strongly disagree with #5 as I have been building the last two releases of the MacOS X version of FlightGear, but they haven't been picked up and moved to the FlightGear web page. Because I don't have infinite storage, Ican't keep them around forever. This is mainly becasue I was asked to include the base packages as a part of the release. If someone would be willing to take the update, I can have a version ready this afternoon. Jonathan, What Arthur offers (as I understand) is a nice native Mac package rather than a binary executable, a base package tar ball and a pointer to google with a hint to type unix in the search box and start reading. If you or someone else can provide similar native/easy mac packaging, I'd be happy to link to it, or host it. Please if you emailed a notice of your build to the mailing list and I missed it, send me a personal note, and subsequent reminders if necessary. I have a day job, a family (wife and 2 daughters), I admin the flightgear project, I do some work on the side for a commercial flight sim company. But mostly I thow all that aside and spend the bulk of my time trying to arbitrate and resolve flame wars on our mailing list. So think naturally fall through the cracks. Please remind me if I miss something important. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] link to my homepage
Curtis L. Olson wrote: 4. If complaints are being registered by non-mac users, they can't actually see what's in the file either so their objections are likely to be a bit suspect. A bit of context - the first I heard about this was not on the mailing list, but when a user popped into the IRC channel to ask why he was downloading religious propaganda - that's not the view of anyone involved in the project, that's an end user, directly associating that package with us. I realise that religion is a subject that a lot of people take very seriously, but in this situation peoples beliefs really are best kept to themselves. -- Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] link to my homepage
Perhaps it will be a good idea to put up a notice that says FlightGear is not responsible for the contents of external websites. Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] link to my homepage
That may a good idea. But just so you all know and so you'll hopefully calm down, the file has been removed from the distribution although there is still a note from the packager and future releases will not even have that. So please forget this whole thing, because if you don't I'll post the entire file on how to get to Heaven in this thread. :) Maybe I should anyways just in case you don't know. Well if you want to know you can just email me. On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:36:27 -0500, Ampere K. Hardraade [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps it will be a good idea to put up a notice that says FlightGear is not responsible for the contents of external websites. Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d -- Arthur/ - http://artooro.blogspot.com (Weblog) - http://machcms.sourceforge.net (MachCMS Project) - http://acalproj.sourceforge.net (Calendar Project) ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] link to my homepage
Arthur Wiebe wrote: That may a good idea. But just so you all know and so you'll hopefully calm down, the file has been removed from the distribution although there is still a note from the packager and future releases will not even have that. Arthur, Thanks, and thanks for all your efforts to bring us a Mac OS X package. Let's give the source forge mirrors a few days to catch up. I'm going to now delete this thread from my inbox. Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] link to my homepage
Curtis L. Olson wrote: I could also wish a few things. 1. That we treat everyone with respect. Yes please, with no exception!! The logical consequence would be that you (and maybe Arthur as well) give a _credible_ signal to us that you respect our faith as much as yours - instead of dividing the list menbers into the ones that share your belief and the 'inferior' ones that either share a different belief or are non-religious. Thanks - we'll expect your response in this forum, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
