Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion to make FlightGear multiplayer compliant with HLA

2008-03-10 Thread Oliver Schroeder
Hi Petr.

Am Donnerstag 06 März 2008 14:50 schrieb Petr Gotthard:
 Hi Oliver,
 the HLA specifications (IEEE 1516) are not free, that's a disadvantage.
 However there are open-source HLA run-time environments (e.g.
 http://www.cert.fr/CERTI), so it's not necessary to implement whole new HLA
 run-time environment.

 Regarding the multiplayer in FlightGear I see two options:
 1) Either to implement a FlightGear proprietary protocol for multiplayer
 with a gateway to HLA, or 2) to actually use native HLA as a multiplayer
 protocol.

I see no point in implementing our own protocol and an additional gateway, 
when we can directly use HLA.
As long as we can implement and redistribute the federate code under GPL (or 
compliant license) we can make flightgear act as a HLA federate and use an 
open-source RTI (instead of fgms).

Regards,
Oliver

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion to make FlightGear multiplayer compliant with HLA

2008-03-07 Thread Ampere K.
On March 6, 2008 08:50:46 am Petr Gotthard wrote:
 Hi Oliver,
 the HLA specifications (IEEE 1516) are not free, that's a disadvantage.
 However there are open-source HLA run-time environments (e.g.
 http://www.cert.fr/CERTI), so it's not necessary to implement whole new HLA
 run-time environment.

You will still need specifications std1516.1-2000 and std1516.2-2000 to 
implement a federate with proper interface to the RTI, as I have just found 
out. ;-)



Ampere

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion to make FlightGear multiplayer compliant with HLA

2008-03-07 Thread Ampere K.
On March 7, 2008 02:53:32 pm Ampere K. wrote:
 On March 6, 2008 08:50:46 am Petr Gotthard wrote:
  Hi Oliver,
  the HLA specifications (IEEE 1516) are not free, that's a disadvantage.
  However there are open-source HLA run-time environments (e.g.
  http://www.cert.fr/CERTI), so it's not necessary to implement whole new
  HLA run-time environment.

 You will still need specifications std1516.1-2000 and std1516.2-2000 to
 implement a federate with proper interface to the RTI, as I have just found
 out. ;-)



 Ampere

After some hunting, I came across lecture notes on HLA here:
http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~hla/courses.html



Ampere

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion to make FlightGear multiplayer compliant with HLA

2008-03-06 Thread Petr Gotthard
Hi Oliver,
the HLA specifications (IEEE 1516) are not free, that's a disadvantage. However 
there are open-source HLA run-time environments (e.g. 
http://www.cert.fr/CERTI), so it's not necessary to implement whole new HLA 
run-time environment.

Regarding the multiplayer in FlightGear I see two options:
1) Either to implement a FlightGear proprietary protocol for multiplayer with a 
gateway to HLA, or 2) to actually use native HLA as a multiplayer protocol.

The solution 1) means a new protocol and a new server (updated fgms) needs to 
be implemented, but the implementation requires no IEEE standards and the 
solution doesn't depend on a 3rd party framework.
The solution 2) doesn't require any new protocol nor HLA gateway to be 
implemented (HLA RTI will be used instead of fgms), but introduces an 
additional dependency on a 3rd party software.

What would you think: proprietary fgms with HLA gateway, or native HLA?

Best Regards,
Petr
__
 Od: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Komu: FlightGear developers discussions 
 flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 Datum: 04.03.2008 23:22
 Předmět: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion to make FlightGear 
 multiplayercompliant with HLA

Hi Petr.

I (as the author of fgms) would be pretty much interrested to implement
fgms as part of a HLA infrastructur.
What detained me from going that way is, that I found no free (as is free
beer) documentation on HLA specifications and the quite complex structure
(too complex for a one-man-show). Additionaly I'm not sure about license
issues involed. Are we allowed to publish all parts of (our) HLA
infrastructur under the GPL (which will kind of undermine cash-flow of
documentation providers like the IEEE)?



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[Flightgear-devel] Suggestion to make FlightGear multiplayer compliant with HLA

2008-03-04 Thread Petr Gotthard
Dear FlightGear developers,(a short introduction first: I'm a newcomer to 
FlightGear, my professional profile can be found at 
http://www.linkedin.com/in/gotthard) May I ask whether you would be interested 
on striving to make FlightGear compliant with the US DoD High Level 
Architecture (HLA)? It could make FlightGear more attractive. I found that 1) 
several FlightGear multiplayer server feature requests at 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/fgms suggest to introduce - subscription-based 
property management - customizable set of propagated properties - more 
efficient data propagation mechanism - global status for date/time, weather, AI 
object positions 2) also the description of A New Architecture for FlightGear 
Flight Simulator proposes a distributed FlightGear architecture, which would 
allow all users to see the same AI 
objectshttp://wiki.flightgear.org/flightgear_wiki/images/1/1e/New_FG_architecture.pdf I
 believe that especially the HLA Declaration Management and Data Distrib
 ution Management perfectly match the above mentioned demands.Just look at 
Fig.2 in http://pagesperso-orange.fr/dominique.canazzi/paper.html. It's nothing 
that can be achieved in a few days, but I think it's feasible. To have a 
perfect solution we'd need to (probably in this order) - turn the FlightGear 
multiplayer server into a HLA RTI (run-time environment) - implement the 
multiplayer protocol according to HLA standards - factor out (extract) the 
non-aircraft objects (weather, AI objects, ATC server, etc.) to enable global 
status What is your opinion? I want to start developing a HLA RTI first, so (if 
you're interested) there will be plenty of time to discuss the requirements and 
architectural issues. One answer in advance: I've seen an idea to extend 
FlightGear to support the DIS protocol (a HLA predecessor and competitor). I 
believe that HLA is more suitable for this purpose because it implements Data 
Distribution Management.  Best Regards,Petr


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion to make FlightGear multiplayer compliant with HLA

2008-03-04 Thread Oliver Schroeder
Hi Petr.

I (as the author of fgms) would be pretty much interrested to implement fgms 
as part of a HLA infrastructur.
What detained me from going that way is, that I found no free (as is free 
beer) documentation on HLA specifications and the quite complex structure 
(too complex for a one-man-show). Additionaly I'm not sure about license 
issues involed. Are we allowed to publish all parts of (our) HLA 
infrastructur under the GPL (which will kind of undermine cash-flow of 
documentation providers like the IEEE)?

On Dienstag, 4. März 2008, Petr Gotthard wrote:
 Dear FlightGear developers,(a short introduction first: I'm a newcomer to
 FlightGear, my professional profile can be found at
 http://www.linkedin.com/in/gotthard) May I ask whether you would
 be interested on striving to make FlightGear compliant with the US DoD High
 Level Architecture (HLA)? It could make FlightGear more attractive. I found
 that 1) several FlightGear multiplayer server feature requests at
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/fgms suggest to
 introduce - subscription-based property management - customizable set of
 propagated properties - more efficient data propagation mechanism - global
 status for date/time, weather, AI object positions 2) also the description
 of A New Architecture for FlightGear Flight Simulator proposes a
 distributed FlightGear architecture, which would allow all users to see the
 same AI
 objectshttp://wiki.flightgear.org/flightgear_wiki/images/1/1e/New_FG_archit
ecture.pdf I believe that especially the HLA Declaration Management and Data
 Distrib ution Management perfectly match the above mentioned demands.Just
 look at Fig.2 in
 http://pagesperso-orange.fr/dominique.canazzi/paper.html. It's nothing that
 can be achieved in a few days, but I think it's feasible. To have a perfect
 solution we'd need to (probably in this order) - turn the FlightGear
 multiplayer server into a HLA RTI (run-time environment) - implement the
 multiplayer protocol according to HLA standards - factor out (extract) the
 non-aircraft objects (weather, AI objects, ATC server, etc.) to enable
 global status What is your opinion? I want to start developing a HLA RTI
 first, so (if you're interested) there will be plenty of time to discuss
 the requirements and architectural issues. One answer in advance: I've seen
 an idea to extend FlightGear to support the DIS protocol (a HLA predecessor
 and competitor). I believe that HLA is more suitable for this purpose
 because it implements Data Distribution Management.  Best Regards,Petr

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion to make FlightGear multiplayer compliant with HLA

2008-03-04 Thread Jon S. Berndt
I read the paper, below, on the FlightGear wiki. Very interesting. We've
toyed with the idea of an FDM server for a while, and there was even some
work done on JSBSim towards making that happen. Recently, HDWysong has added
the capability to use FlightGear as a visual front end for JSBSim as a
separate, scripted application. It certainly would be a huge paradigm shift.

 

Jon

 

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Petr
Gotthard
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 1:26 PM
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion to make FlightGear multiplayer
compliant with HLA

 

Dear FlightGear developers,

(a short introduction first: I'm a newcomer to FlightGear, my professional
profile can be found at  http://www.linkedin.com/in/gotthard
http://www.linkedin.com/in/gotthard)

 

May I ask whether you would be interested on striving to make FlightGear
compliant with the US DoD High Level Architecture (HLA)? It could make
FlightGear more attractive.

 

I found that

 

1) several FlightGear multiplayer server feature requests at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/fgms suggest to introduce

 - subscription-based property management

 - customizable set of propagated properties

 - more efficient data propagation mechanism

 - global status for date/time, weather, AI object positions

 

2) also the description of A New Architecture for FlightGear Flight
Simulator proposes a distributed FlightGear architecture, which would allow
all users to see the same AI objects

http://wiki.flightgear.org/flightgear_wiki/images/1/1e/New_FG_architecture.p
df

 

I believe that especially the HLA Declaration Management and Data
Distributio n Management perfectly match the above mentioned demands.

Just look at Fig.2 in
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/dominique.canazzi/paper.html.

 

It's nothing that can be achieved in a few days, but I think it's feasible.
To have a perfect solution we'd need to (probably in this order)

 - turn the FlightGear multiplayer server into a HLA RTI (run-time envir
onment)

 - implement the multiplayer protocol according to HLA standards

 - factor out (extract) the non-aircraft objects (weather, AI objects, ATC
server, etc.) to enable global status

 

What is your opinion? I want to start developing a HLA RTI first, so (if
you're interested) there will be plenty of time to discuss the requirements
and architectural issues.

 

One answer in advance: I've seen an idea to extend FlightGear to support the
DIS protocol (a HLA predecessor and c ompetitor). I believe that HLA is more
suitable for this purpose because it implements Data Distribution
Management.

 

 

Best Regards,

Petr

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