Re: FLUXLIST: Imagine
In a message dated 05/21/2000 5:43:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The majority of young males who were my students in the South Bronx said they didn't expect to live beyond 21. Now that's sad. They sussed out that society had no slots for them and wasn't interested in their lives, except to keep them in check. Who is telling them that society is interested in anyone's life? The interest must go the other way. The tragedy for the jaded is that such a reaction to the world must arise from a disinterest in it. What force is causing people--kids and adults--to be bored with the infinite range of sensory and abstract experience that their embodiment offers? The world is large, large as it's ever been. Only the obedient, I think, are ever bored, and gangbangers in the South Bronx, thinking only on death, are being obedient in their own ways. What they perceive, and by "they" I certainly don't mean every student I ever had, but a disturbing number of kids from impoverished situations, usually only one parent often on welfare, some from alcoholic/drug addiction parent/guardian situations, some from a single parent (mother usually) who worked hard but made little money . . . the usual stereotype situations for 9th grade kids with low reading/writing skills, low verbal skills . . . kids who live a lot of their lives on the street-- they perceive a world where cops are suspicious of their very existence, where there's not much economic opportunity for them, where no one seems to care what happens to them. They generally don't have the money for access (except thru crime, if they choose that route, or drug dealing if they choose that route--though I must say, most of the students I'm talking about didn't choose crime or drugs dealing) to the "stuff" they see pushed at them constantly on tv and billboards, they feel alienated from mainstream society -- even moreso because they don't have verbal skills to navigate the society -- and they see their peers either dying off of being routed to jail at an enormous rate. They feel frustrated and hopeless by the time they reach high school, and it's very difficult to motivate them. In some ways I think Hillary is right, it does take a village to raise a child, and these kids perceive that the village doesn't care about them as much as it cares about others. I think it's really difficult for us to imagine what it's like to be raised in that kind of alienating environment. It's not the gangbangers I'm talking about.
Re: FLUXLIST: the creative act
C'est la vie I meant to say, Selavy, as he was in touch with his feminine side... As Rrose Selavy See my rather blurry scan of my little known assemblage/collage, "Marcel Rrose, After Stella Ray" http://www.artden.freeserve.co.uk/izone/fluxuseyezone.html But, I'm not allowed to talk about it. (I finally saw The Fight Club : ) PK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But one time he coulda been DuChampion of the World . . . Oops, sorry that was Hurricane Carter.
Re: FLUXLIST: the creative act
and i finally saw 'high fidelity' c :) carol starr taos, new mexico, usa [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Tue, 23 May 2000, Patricia wrote: (I finally saw The Fight Club : ) PK
Re: FLUXLIST: the creative act
In a message dated 05/23/2000 9:12:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I meant to say, Selavy, as he was in touch with his feminine side... would that be on the left or right side?
Re: FLUXLIST: the creative act
As far as I can tell, it was the full frontal side, all dressed up, with plenty of places to go. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 05/23/2000 9:12:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I meant to say, Selavy, as he was in touch with his feminine side... would that be on the left or right side?
Re: FLUXLIST: Imagine
writes bestpoet: In some ways I think Hillary is right, it does take a village to raise a child, and these kids perceive that the village doesn't care about them as much as it cares about others. I think it's really difficult for us to imagine what it's like to be raised in that kind of alienating environment. It's not the gangbangers I'm talking about. Many children grow up in environments that don't care about them. I grew up in a little village, but it wasn't a village that gave much of a damn about its children. Rural poverty creates situations not so very different from urban poverty. My family was relatively economically privileged--local doctor--but the town was so small, and so poor, that my life was similar to that of the other kids. Parents were not focused on their kids; they had their own stuff to deal with. Most kids drank too much, some did drugs (meth labs are very common in little towns), there were a number of suicides or probable suicides. But it was still possible, despite all the floundering and drunkenness and bad sex and nonsense, to keep some corner of one's gaze alert to the world, the nonhuman world as well as the gorgeous parts of the human one. And that tended to be what kept people alive. To me that's what art's for, to turn people's gaze outward, away from themselves, out into the world. A lot of villages -- maybe most of them--do a really crappy job of raising their children. But the rest of the world, it's still there. And anyone can see and hear and feel it. Maybe that's the cruelty of an urban environment--it seems like the human world is all there is. AK
Re: FLUXLIST: Imagine
In a message dated 05/23/2000 2:02:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A lot of villages -- maybe most of them--do a really crappy job of raising their children. But the rest of the world, it's still there. And anyone can see and hear and feel it. Maybe that's the cruelty of an urban environment--it seems like the human world is all there is. This is true, and you're right, anyone can see and hear and feel it. But this also feels a bit like blaming the victim for not having enough fortitude to overcome their circumstances (the Culture of Poverty stuff from what's his name, Oscar Lewis?). I think in the urban environment, it takes so much energy just to survive that people develop tunnel vision. I don't know what the answer is. What seems to get the best results is when community groups and churches get coalitions for change and stuff happening. Certainly, as I said, there are many children who, in spite of difficult circumstances, manage to construct different lives for themselves. But I've also seen a lot of kids who have that deer in the headlights terror frozen into their shoulders and eyes. They can't figure out what to do, and the mountain seems unclimbable. They're not so successful at being stalwart individuals in the face of mighty adversity. I don't think kids should have to be. I grew up in rural Arkansas, and a lot of kids there went straight to Ku Klux Klan mentality bypassing the beauty of the world around them. So I don't think rural vs. urban is the issue. Not really quite sure what it is, or what the answer is. Maybe the "answer" is different for each kid, or each community. Like some kids are just shell shocked, while others have alcohol fetal syndrome problems, etc.
Re: FLUXLIST: Art and Economics and Hunter Thompson
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." --Hunter S. Thompson
