Re: [fonc] Alan Kay talk at HPI in Potsdam

2011-07-25 Thread David Barbour
On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: The main idea here is that a windowing 2.5 D UI can compose views from many sources into a page. The sources can be opaque because they can even do their own rendering if needed. Since the sources can run in protected

Re: [fonc] Alan Kay talk at HPI in Potsdam

2011-07-25 Thread David Barbour
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 3:20 PM, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote: too bad there is no standardized bytecode or anything though, but then I guess it would at this point be more like browser-integrated Flash or something, as well as be potentially more subject to awkward versioning issues, or the

Re: Intention Implementation - was Re: [fonc] Alan Kay talk at HPI in Potsdam

2011-07-25 Thread David Barbour
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Julian Leviston jul...@leviston.netwrote: I guess my question is... what's stopping an alternative, replacement, backwardly-compatible protocol from taking over where http and https leave off? HTTP and HTTPS are not very good protocols if your goals relate to

Re: [fonc] Last programming language

2011-07-20 Thread David Barbour
On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 7:57 AM, Paul Homer paul_ho...@yahoo.ca wrote: If we flip that, and consider the data as the primary element, then we can look for ideas that essentially make the code trivial. Users enter data, the system stores data, and we want to analyze the data. The code can be

Re: [fonc] Last programming language

2011-07-18 Thread David Barbour
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 4:25 PM, David Goehrig d...@nexttolast.com wrote: While some level of formalism will be useful when discussing the behavior and specification of this system, it should not be a prerequisite for use. Yeah, that I agree with. Or more precisely: a developer should need

Re: [fonc] Last programming language

2011-07-18 Thread David Barbour
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 8:18 PM, David Barbour dmbarb...@gmail.com wrote: Yeah, that I agree with. Or more precisely: a developer should need to be educated in the system's formalism in order to effectively develop. Oops, I dropped the negative. This is meant to be 'should

Re: [fonc] Last programming language

2011-07-17 Thread David Barbour
The video sparked some interesting discussion at LtU. http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4312 Bob Martin's argument is not credible, though. He cherry-picks his example languages, and the attributes from those languages. He ignores the troubles with concurrency, and the future needs for

Re: [fonc] Eternal computing

2011-06-30 Thread David Barbour
destruction of C. I developed this idea for a variation on actors, years before RDP. But I believe it still applicable. Partial failure, graceful degradation, fallback services and resilience is something we can achieve in computing much more effectively than in nature. Regards, David Barbour

[fonc] Coding at the Speed of Touch

2011-06-13 Thread David Barbour
I think some recent work by Sean McDirmid may be of interest to the FoNC audience. Coding at the Speed of Touch http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4257 This paper describes a programming language with a tile-based development environment designed for use in tablets. The 'type system', such as

Re: [fonc] why are true,false,nil pseudovariables

2011-06-12 Thread David Barbour
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 1:07 AM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote: SELF did not have specialized bytecodes for these. See http://selflanguage.org/documentation/published/implementation.html --scott Why is this relevant? The opening question was about Squeak.

Re: [fonc] why are true,false,nil pseudovariables

2011-06-11 Thread David Barbour
On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Ondrej Bilka nel...@seznam.cz wrote: My point is that you could just Object have methods true,false and nil Any reasonably optimalizing compiler would replace them with bytecode. As methods, you could override them. And since you don't know which subclasses

Re: [fonc] why are true,false,nil pseudovariables

2011-06-11 Thread David Barbour
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 8:34 PM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote: Even if you're doing pure static analysis, you should be doing open/closed class analysis and specializing/inlining any class which has no subclasses in the compilation. Doesn't work with pluggable components.

Re: [fonc] why are true,false,nil pseudovariables

2011-06-11 Thread David Barbour
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 9:36 PM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote: This is discussed in the paper(s). Closed/open types can be considered part of the type system, in which case they are perfectly compatible with plugins. If you make it an explicit part of the type system, I could

Re: [fonc] Static typing and/vs. boot strap-able, small kernel, comprehensible, user modifiable systems

2011-06-07 Thread David Barbour
On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Scott McLoughlin scottmc...@gmail.comwrote: My intention was to far more specifically ask: why small core, user comprehensible and modifiable, and boot-strapable systems seem to be the province of either latently typed (Smalltak, Lisp, Scheme, Icon (?), etc.)

Re: [fonc] Electrical Actors?

2011-06-06 Thread David Barbour
On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Casey Ransberger casey.obrie...@gmail.comwrote: Has anyone taken the actor model down to the metal? This would be difficult. We are constrained by fixed memory resources and connectivity relationships at the hardware level. The memory limits constrain scheduling

Re: [fonc] languages

2011-06-06 Thread David Barbour
On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Julian Leviston jul...@leviston.netwrote: Is a language I program in necessarily limiting in its expressibility? Yes. All communication architectures are necessarily limiting in their expressiveness (in the sense defined by Matthias Felleisen). For example,

[fonc] Efficacy of Models (was Re: [PiLuD] Act ors in Clojure — Why Not?)

2010-06-26 Thread David Barbour
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 7:53 AM, dalnefre dale.schumac...@gmail.com wrote: a practitioner's reason for developing and using a design pattern is that the host language was inadequate or was missing features. Failings of the language are not necessarily failings of the model. I think we are

Re: [fonc] Re: [PiLuD] Actors in Clojure — Why Not ?

2010-06-23 Thread David Barbour
I've been using the word 'composition' in the mathematical sense. Relational composition involves taking relations as input and producing a relation as output. Functional composition involves taking functions as input and producing a function as output. Actors composition involves taking actors

Re: [fonc] Re: [PiLuD] Actors in Clojure — Why Not ?

2010-06-19 Thread David Barbour
Your article of 2010 May shows you reinventing actors-model queues within actors-model to perform what should be trivial composition tasks in a reasonable programming model. If that isn't already ankle-deep in a Turing tarpit, what is it? a Turing peat bog? How much will these intermediate queues

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