Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-28 Thread Loup Vaillant
Originally, the VPRI claims to be able to do a system that's 10,000 smaller than our current bloatware. That's going from roughly 200 million lines to 20,000. (Or, as Alan Kay puts it, from a whole library to a single book.) That's 4 orders of magnitude. From the report, I made a rough break

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-28 Thread Reuben Thomas
On 28 February 2012 16:41, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote:  - 1 order of magnitude is gained by removing feature creep.  I agree   feature creep can be important.  But I also believe most feature   belong to a long tail, where each is needed by a minority of users.   It does matter, but if the

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-28 Thread Alan Kay
Hi Loup Very good question -- and tell your Boss he should support you! If your boss has a math or science background, this will be an easy sell because there are many nice analogies that hold, and also some good examples in computing itself. The POL approach is generally good, but for a

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-28 Thread Alan Kay
Hi Reuben Yep. One of the many finesses in the STEPS project was to point out that requiring OSs to have drivers for everything misses what being networked is all about. In a nicer distributed systems design (such as Popek's LOCUS), one would get drivers from the devices automatically, and

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-28 Thread Jakob Praher
Dear Alan, Am 28.02.12 14:54, schrieb Alan Kay: Hi Ryan Check out Smalltalk-71, which was a design to do just what you suggest -- it was basically an attempt to combine some of my favorite languages of the time -- Logo and Lisp, Carl Hewitt's Planner, Lisp 70, etc. do you have a detailled

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-28 Thread Alan Kay
As I mentioned, Smalltalk-71 was never implemented -- and rarely mentioned (but it was part of the history of Smalltalk so I put in a few words about it). If we had implemented it, we probably would have cleaned up the look of it, and also some of the conventions. You are right that part of

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-28 Thread BGB
On 2/28/2012 10:33 AM, Reuben Thomas wrote: On 28 February 2012 16:41, BGBcr88...@gmail.com wrote: - 1 order of magnitude is gained by removing feature creep. I agree feature creep can be important. But I also believe most feature belong to a long tail, where each is needed by a

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-28 Thread BGB
On 2/28/2012 5:36 PM, Julian Leviston wrote: On 29/02/2012, at 10:29 AM, BGB wrote: On 2/28/2012 2:30 PM, Alan Kay wrote: Yes, this is why the STEPS proposal was careful to avoid the current day world. For example, one of the many current day standards that was dismissed immediately is

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-28 Thread Dale Schumacher
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 5:23 PM, Charles Perkins ch...@memetech.com wrote: I think of the code size reduction like this: A book of logarithm tables may be hundreds of pages in length and yet the equation producing the numbers can fit on one line. VPRI is exploring runnable math and is