Object Ontology... Was: [fonc] Fonc on Mac Snow Leopard?

2010-05-10 Thread Julian Leviston
Salut, Comme illustration, j'ai decidé a repondre en français... Si tu n'as pas une contexte pour les mots de cette langue, c'est probablement assez difficile a comprendre ce que je dis. --- (this will help if you don't have any french: http://translate.google.com/#fr|en) In order to unders

Re: [fonc] Fonc on Mac Snow Leopard?

2010-05-10 Thread BGB
I disagree... personally, I often find it far more useful, not to add meaning to data, but rather to strip meaning and intention from the data. so, content is stripped of nearly all meaning, becomming essentially raw data to be interpreted however is as-needed for a given task. for example, c

Re: [fonc] Program representation

2010-05-10 Thread Mayson Lancaster
Back in the '70s, I was working at a computer-output-microfilm company which occasionally got tapes delivered from USC's computer center with files sent down from SRI over the ARPAnet. They contained the documentation for Engelbart's systems, for us to typeset. I spent quite a few hours reading the

Re: [fonc] Fonc on Mac Snow Leopard?

2010-05-10 Thread Julian Leviston
From: http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2009016_steps09.pdf > The interesting part of this scheme is not just the long established idea of > loose coupling through some form of brokering, but the extent to which > semantic match-ups can be made between our viewing and event mechanisms and > the enormou

Re: [fonc] An actor-based environment for prototyping

2010-05-10 Thread Dale Schumacher
Hi Alan, Thanks for the encouragement. After a little searching I found "Naming and Synchronization in a Decentralized Computer System", D. P. Reed, 1978 [1]. Is that the paper you had in mind? It looks interesting, but I haven't had a chance to absorb it yet. I'm glad to hear we're on the rig

Re: [fonc] Fonc on Mac Snow Leopard?

2010-05-10 Thread Dan Amelang
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 10:46 AM, John Zabroski wrote: > Alan, > > If I took the time to write an "idea memo", would you (and possibly others) > at VPRI take the time to comment on it?  It would mainly be example-driven > and use an interweaving storywriting style, since I am not well-versed in >

Re: [fonc] Program representation

2010-05-10 Thread Alan Kay
Anyone ever hear of Doug Engelbart? Ever type his name into Google? Ever looked to see how the code and documentation for his system was organized? Cheers, Alan From: BGB To: Fundamentals of New Computing Sent: Mon, May 10, 2010 5:50:31 PM Subject: Re: [fon

Re: [fonc] Program representation

2010-05-10 Thread BGB
- Original Message - From: John Nilsson To: Fundamentals of New Computing Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [fonc] Program representation On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 11:29 PM, BGB wrote: like having documentation in a hypertext form, and having code conta

Re: [fonc] Program representation

2010-05-10 Thread John Nilsson
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 11:29 PM, BGB wrote: > > like having documentation in a hypertext form, and having code contain > links into the docs, and from the docs back into the code?... > For example. > I guess it would be a notable improvement on having to edit external files > for the documents,

Re: [fonc] Program representation

2010-05-10 Thread John Nilsson
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 8:55 PM, John Zabroski wrote: > Can you provide an end-to-end exemplary situation in Enterprise Resource > Planning (ERP) software where FONC ideas are relevant? You sort of jumped > off that stream of thought and onto modeling sine waves graphically, etc. > Depends on wh

Re: [fonc] Other interesting projects?

2010-05-10 Thread John Zabroski
I can't seem to find the paper where VPRI references it, but somewhere I think they reference Henry Baker's 1993 paper The Forth Shall Be First [1]. I think Ian or Alex referenced this, which is sort of weird considering Dominikus's S3 Potsdam Germany anecdote that Ian said he didn't have a deep, v

Re: [fonc] Program representation

2010-05-10 Thread BGB
(sorry if similar is already in use...). like having documentation in a hypertext form, and having code contain links into the docs, and from the docs back into the code?... markup could be done similar to a wiki, and the editor can interpret comments containing wiki-links as linking elsewhere

Re: [fonc] Program representation

2010-05-10 Thread John Zabroski
Can you provide an end-to-end exemplary situation in Enterprise Resource Planning (ERP) software where FONC ideas are relevant? You sort of jumped off that stream of thought and onto modeling sine waves graphically, etc. I work in various roles of ERP/CRM/BI software, and so I understand the doma

Re: [fonc] Program representation

2010-05-10 Thread John Nilsson
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 6:54 PM, John Zabroski wrote: > > Schematic tables are a separate issue entirely. > First of all. Thanks for the explanation about the thinking wrt the TCP/IP implementation. I'll have to peruse the code with that in mind. My questions was, as you pointed out, about a sepa

Re: [fonc] Program representation

2010-05-10 Thread Pascal J. Bourguignon
On 2010/05/10, at 18:21 , John Nilsson wrote: > When reading about the TCP/IP implementation in OMeta it strikes me that parsing the > ASCII-art is still text. Isn't it kind of silly to spend all that syntax on representing > something as fundamental as a table? ASCII-art is not so bad. I

Re: [fonc] Other interesting projects?

2010-05-10 Thread John Zabroski
Murat, If you are interested in executable specifications in the tradition of Maude and CafeOBJ and looking for underexplored ideas from Academia, you need to retreat back to the late 1970s and through the1980s and "proof of specification" theories proposed by Goguen, but also by Chandy. The esse

Re: [fonc] Fonc on Mac Snow Leopard?

2010-05-10 Thread John Zabroski
Alan, If I took the time to write an "idea memo", would you (and possibly others) at VPRI take the time to comment on it? It would mainly be example-driven and use an interweaving storywriting style, since I am not well-versed in scientific writing style, but, if necessary, I could cite and compa

Re: [fonc] Program representation

2010-05-10 Thread John Zabroski
The ASCII-art is not what is important. The table is effectively loaded directly from its source. In this way, an RFC document server negotiates with the client seeking to build a TCP/IP stack. The client queries the server and starts negotiating on the data interchange format for passing to the

[fonc] Program representation

2010-05-10 Thread John Nilsson
Hi, When reading about the TCP/IP implementation in OMeta it strikes me that parsing the ASCII-art is still text. Isn't it kind of silly to spend all that syntax on representing something as fundamental as a table? So I was wondering, have you, at vpri, been contemplating alternative program repr

Re: [fonc] Fonc on Mac Snow Leopard?

2010-05-10 Thread Alan Kay
More proof of concept. One of the points here is to go far beyond the almost 40 year old Smalltalk, not to re-embrace it. Cheers, Alan From: Jakob Praher To: fonc@vpri.org Sent: Sun, May 9, 2010 3:08:48 PM Subject: Re: [fonc] Fonc on Mac Snow Leopard? Rega

Re: [fonc] Fonc on Mac Snow Leopard?

2010-05-10 Thread Alan Kay
Hi Jakob, I'm always interested in Carl's ideas (he's one of the few in our field that really has unusual and interesting slants on computation). The whole point of the OMeta in JS embedding is that both JS syntax and semantics can be buried (that is JS winds up being like an assembly code). If

Re: [fonc] An actor-based environment for prototyping

2010-05-10 Thread Alan Kay
Hi Dale et al. This sounds like a great project, and I'd like to find out more. (Have you looked at David Reed's 1978 MIT thesis on "distributed transactional object operating systems". In my opinion this was one of the very best next steps wrt objects (and it was influenced by Actors)). And y

[fonc] Public archives?

2010-05-10 Thread Reuben Thomas
Hi, Is there some reason why the archives could not be public? I wanted to point out the extremely interesting pointers that have come up recently to some friends, but I'm left with the annoying choice between copying and pasting all the stuff myself, or requiring them to subscribe in order to rea