Re: [fonc] Code Bubbles

2010-03-12 Thread Alan Kay
And, of course, there was Playground (a object oriented language made completely from (richer) spreadsheet cells that we did for the Vivarium project in the late 80s and early 90s). Cheers, Alan From: John Zabroski johnzabro...@gmail.com To: Fundamentals of

Re: [fonc] Systems and artifacts

2010-04-30 Thread Alan Kay
a similar distinction between invention/engineering and research/science here: http://computinged.wordpress.com/2010/04/23/alan-kay-on-hoping-that-simple-is-not-too-simple/#comment-2318 ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman

Re: [fonc] Systems and artifacts

2010-05-01 Thread Alan Kay
Hi Frank, This is iffy in American English usage (similarly as with the data is or the data are ). In the UK (or ancient Rome) you would be quite correct. But the US has both treatments of Latin plurals. (I'll admit to leaning towards your choice most of the time ...) Cheers, Alan

Re: [fonc] 2009 NSF report

2010-05-07 Thread Alan Kay
Hi Kim, A real flaw here is that our carefully made first page is not rendered well in the pdf version. We need some special handling here to get it to look as good as it did in MS Word. Even though it's a pain, I would suggest just saying that this picture did not transmogrify well into pdf

Re: [fonc] Any newer FoNC distribution ?

2010-05-07 Thread Alan Kay
As the president of RAND said to the Air Force general Research is like roulette, nothing counts until the ball drops! From: Kevin DeGraaf ke...@degraaf-consulting.com To: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Fri, May 7, 2010 10:26:42 AM Subject:

Re: [fonc] Fonc on Mac Snow Leopard?

2010-05-08 Thread Alan Kay
We don't plan to wind up using any one else's GC so I wouldn't worry. From: DeNigris Sean s...@clipperadams.com To: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Sat, May 8, 2010 8:44:45 AM Subject: Re: [fonc] Fonc on Mac Snow Leopard? the

Re: [fonc] Fonc on Mac Snow Leopard?

2010-05-08 Thread Alan Kay
join forces in early stages might be interesting, no? For instance there could be other people doing PoC work. Thanks, Jakob Am 08.05.10 18:03, schrieb Alan Kay: Glad you are interested, but don't hold your breath. We've got quite a bit more to do this year. It's not an incremental project

Re: [fonc] Any newer FoNC distribution ?

2010-05-08 Thread Alan Kay
will have been accomplished by the STEPS project. Cheers, Alan - From: brian ford bri...@gmail.com To: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Sat, May 8, 2010 3:29:23 PM Subject: Re: [fonc] Any newer FoNC distribution ? Hi Alan, On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Alan Kay

Re: [fonc] Fonc on Mac Snow Leopard?

2010-05-08 Thread Alan Kay
are going and maybe also join forces in early stages might be interesting, no? For instance there could be other people doing PoC work. Thanks, Jakob Am 08.05.10 18:03, schrieb Alan Kay: Glad you are interested, but don't hold your breath. We've got quite a bit more to do this year. It's

Re: [fonc] Other interesting projects?

2010-05-08 Thread Alan Kay
Hi Max, Well, what properties do you think might be enormously problematic with stack languages ? Cheers, Alan From: Max OrHai max.or...@gmail.com To: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Sat, May 8, 2010 4:49:14 PM Subject: [fonc] Other

Re: [fonc] Any newer FoNC distribution ?

2010-05-08 Thread Alan Kay
-based platforms, because... “Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it.” So just consider us forcing functions that could prove to be useful. Kevin. On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 3:52 PM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks very much. Virtually all that is good about STEPS

Re: [fonc] Other interesting projects?

2010-05-09 Thread Alan Kay
in the process of doing exactly this. I would be happy to see the Factor community accept your challenge! Cheers, Dominikus 2010/5/9 Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com One way to make progress here (and is a good five finger exercise for people who are interesting in learning) would be for someone

Re: [fonc] An actor-based environment for prototyping

2010-05-10 Thread Alan Kay
Hi Dale et al. This sounds like a great project, and I'd like to find out more. (Have you looked at David Reed's 1978 MIT thesis on distributed transactional object operating systems. In my opinion this was one of the very best next steps wrt objects (and it was influenced by Actors)). And

Re: [fonc] Fonc on Mac Snow Leopard?

2010-05-10 Thread Alan Kay
] - http://arxiv.org/abs/0907.3330 [2] - http://newspeaklanguage.org/ Am 09.05.10 01:06, schrieb Alan Kay: By the way, people on this list should look at Dan Ingalls' Lively Kernel. (http://www.lively-kernel.org/) Dan is also one of original authors of the NSF proposal for STEPS and we claim

Re: [fonc] Fonc on Mac Snow Leopard?

2010-05-10 Thread Alan Kay
and people can take different views on them. With real semantic mappings between individual notations and syntax. -- Jakob [1] - http://arxiv.org/abs/0907.3330 [2] - http://newspeaklanguage.org/ Am 09.05.10 01:06, schrieb Alan Kay: By the way, people on this list should look at Dan Ingalls' Lively

Re: [fonc] Program representation

2010-05-10 Thread Alan Kay
Anyone ever hear of Doug Engelbart? Ever type his name into Google? Ever looked to see how the code and documentation for his system was organized? Cheers, Alan From: BGB cr88...@hotmail.com To: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Mon, May 10,

Re: [fonc] Fonc on Mac Snow Leopard?

2010-05-11 Thread Alan Kay
Me too. That was why I suggested that people on this list try to write these. Cheers, Alan From: Dan Amelang daniel.amel...@gmail.com To: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Mon, May 10, 2010 8:23:08 PM Subject: Re: [fonc] Fonc on Mac Snow

Re: [fonc] An actor-based environment for prototyping

2010-05-11 Thread Alan Kay
in that vein. Thanks again, Dale [1] http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=889815 On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 7:28 AM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Dale et al. This sounds like a great project, and I'd like to find out more. (Have you looked at David Reed's 1978 MIT thesis

Re: [fonc] An actor-based environment for prototyping

2010-05-11 Thread Alan Kay
I provided IS to his LCS TR. For OTHER universities, you have to go through a clearinghouse. You can even get Guy Lewis Steele or Gerald Jay Sussman's Ph.D. theses on the same site I linked to, if you want. On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 10:20 AM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: But in this case

Re: [fonc] Sketchpad? (off-topic)

2010-06-20 Thread Alan Kay
Hi Carl The bits for Sketchpad are still extant. Ivan has them. Brian Silverman -- who has done a number of really good emulators of old machines to run old software -- has tried for some years to get enough information about the TX-2 from Wes Clark (and the Sketchpad bits) from Ivan to get

[fonc] Ancient rumblings about objects, actors, and agents

2010-06-23 Thread Alan Kay
For the amusement of the list. .Actually only semi-ancient. Here's a Scientific American article I was asked to write about computer software in 1984. http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr1984001_comp_soft.pdf There are a few hidden jokes along the way. The stuff that is relevant to some of the

Re: [fonc] Ancient rumblings about objects, actors, and agents

2010-06-23 Thread Alan Kay
, Alan Kay wrote: For the amusement of the list. .Actually only semi-ancient. Here's a Scientific American article I was asked to write about computer software in 1984.http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr1984001_comp_soft.pdf There are a few hidden jokes along the way. The stuff that is relevant

Re: [fonc] goals

2010-07-08 Thread Alan Kay
Thoreau said We become the tools of our tools; McLuhan: We become what we behold. Both are scary, but the latter one has some hope in it, if we could make something that by beholding it we would become better. And technology literally means anything that humans make so ideas count here also

Re: [fonc] goals

2010-07-08 Thread Alan Kay
Actually, Nin got her quote from the Talmud From: Ryan Mitchley r...@peralex.com To: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Thu, July 8, 2010 9:40:45 AM Subject: Re: [fonc] goals Alan Kay wrote: McLuhan: We become what we behold. We don't

Re: [fonc] goals

2010-07-08 Thread Alan Kay
Once a project gets going it usually winds up with a few more goals than those that got it started -- partly because the individual researchers bring their own perspectives to the mix. But the original goals of STEPS were pretty simple and longstanding. They came from thinking that the size

Re: [fonc] goals

2010-07-09 Thread Alan Kay
One of my all time favorite metaphors and examples for part of what we are trying to do in this T-shirt programming project. Cheers, Alan From: David Leibs david.le...@oracle.com To: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Fri, July 9, 2010

Re: [fonc] goals

2010-07-09 Thread Alan Kay
Maxwell's Equations for Computer Science on a t-shirt. [1] http://media.cs.uiuc.edu/seminars/StateFarm-Kay-2009-10-22a.asx [2] http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/3265#comment-48129 [3] http://toddsatogata.net/ On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: One of my all time

Re: [fonc] goals

2010-07-13 Thread Alan Kay
I think this is the real point here, and you put it well. One of the books I've admired greatly over the years is The Molecular Biology of The Cell -- especially the green one (3rd edition?) -- which does a terrific job of starting with a few findings of chemistry and spinning out a pretty

Re: [fonc] automation

2010-07-14 Thread Alan Kay
, on one hand, and a few actions directly launchable by the controller only on the other. In other words, the controller is the (only) messaging system. I recently read an often quoted post by Alan Kay using the word mu for what-lies-in-between (my words). The greek root dia would perhaps be nice

Re: [fonc] Reg. Frank

2010-12-13 Thread Alan Kay
Hi Casey, We still have a lot of work to do before we have a kernel of stuff that we'll be happy to answer questions about. Frank is still in intensive care, but we are working to get him off his respirator and heart machine! Cheers, Alan From: Casey

Re: [fonc] The Elements of Computing Systems

2011-01-03 Thread Alan Kay
to compare to.) I had not heard of Carver Mead's book before. I just picked it up via an online used books store. Thanks. On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Eric (and all) I read this a few years ago and I really wanted to like this book much more than I did

Re: [fonc] The Elements of Computing Systems

2011-01-03 Thread Alan Kay
way better? On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: The Alto did not have a lot of transistors in it, but was a very fine meta-machine, so one might think about how to posit an even simpler Alto, but that would still have its meta-capabilities. The Mead-Conway

Re: [fonc] The Elements of Computing Systems

2011-01-03 Thread Alan Kay
fonc@vpri.org Sent: Mon, January 3, 2011 2:59:51 PM Subject: Re: [fonc] The Elements of Computing Systems On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 2:01 PM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: Please say more ... The Alto didn't have any hardware for this ... nor did it have any regular code

Re: [fonc] The Elements of Computing Systems

2011-01-05 Thread Alan Kay
A nice Goethe quote: We should all share in the excitement of discovery without vain attempts to claim priority. So we can be happy that Chuck Moore did a few things when he did, without worrying about when the ideas first appeared. Computing -- like natural science -- has always been ripe

Re: [fonc] Visual 6502

2011-01-07 Thread Alan Kay
I love this! Cheers, Alan From: Casey Ransberger casey.obrie...@gmail.com To: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 10:51:12 AM Subject: [fonc] Visual 6502 This is kind of cool. They took a 6502, X-rayed it, vectorized the

Re: [fonc] Software and Motivation

2011-02-19 Thread Alan Kay
It is indeed a reference to human universals. These are traits and drives found in every culture, and originally were identified in the 3000 or so traditional cultures studied by Anthropologists. For example, every culture examined has a language, stories, kinship, status and power, a

Re: [fonc] visual environments created by present/former VPRI staff

2011-03-30 Thread Alan Kay
There are several books on various kinds of visual programming. A lot of this territory was explored in the ARPA-IPTO research community in the 60s. Sketchpad (used the idea of fusing visual constraints to the Sketchpad drawings) Online Graphical Procedures (an early graphical dataflow system

Re: [fonc] visual environments created by present/former VPRI staff

2011-03-30 Thread Alan Kay
It is worth a mention, but it was not done by Viewpoints folks in current or previous incarnations Cheers, Alan From: John Nilsson j...@milsson.nu To: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Wed, March 30, 2011 10:10:32 AM Subject: Re: [fonc]

Re: [fonc] visual environments created by present/former VPRI staff

2011-03-30 Thread Alan Kay
and quite pretty in a dynamic language. Cheers, Alan From: Duncan Mak duncan...@gmail.com To: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Cc: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com Sent: Wed, March 30, 2011 9:46:20 AM Subject: Re: [fonc] visual environments created

Re: [fonc] visual environments created by present/former VPRI staff

2011-03-30 Thread Alan Kay
I think he means The Analyst that was done at Xerox PARC and XEOS for the CIA Cheers, Alan From: Kim Rose kim.r...@vpri.org To: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Wed, March 30, 2011 3:02:11 PM Subject: Re: [fonc] visual environments created by

Re: [fonc] visual environments created by present/former VPRI staff

2011-04-08 Thread Alan Kay
Hi John I don't think I would call the Analyst visual programming. (And you are right that to this day most people can't see what a spreadsheet really is (or is trying to be). I think the real interest of the Analyst was that it was early and good thinking about what easily programmable visual

Re: [fonc] visual environments created by present/former VPRI staff

2011-04-08 Thread Alan Kay
become kinda like variables... That one simple thing makes them so much more awesome. Julian. On 08/04/2011, at 10:55 PM, Alan Kay wrote: Hi John I don't think I would call the Analyst visual programming. (And you are right that to this day most people can't see what a spreadsheet really

Re: [fonc] Question about OMeta

2011-04-08 Thread Alan Kay
:46 PM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: It does that all the time. An easy way to do it is to make up a universal semantics, perhaps in AST form, then write translators into and out of. Cheers, Alan From: Julian Leviston jul...@leviston.net

Re: [fonc] Question about OMeta

2011-04-08 Thread Alan Kay
. You guys rock :) I just wanna take this opportunity to give thanks that there are still people like you who are continuing this sort of things for the good of us all. Julian. On 09/04/2011, at 7:46 AM, Alan Kay wrote: It does that all the time. An easy way to do it is to make up a universal

Re: [fonc] bootstrapping B

2011-04-09 Thread Alan Kay
These approaches are always fun to look at. A good question here is whether this many-level scheme is better than to pick something like a simple Lisp-like or OMeta-like language (e.g. it came from Meta II, which is really simple) that can output machine code and simply hand translate the

P.S. Re: [fonc] bootstrapping B

2011-04-09 Thread Alan Kay
P. S. I was presuming that people on this list are reading FONC related stuff on the VPRI writings page ... But just in case, please check out a few of Ian's recent papers on minimal direct to machine code schemes. Cheers, Alan From: Alan Kay alan.n

Re: [fonc] Question about OMeta

2011-04-12 Thread Alan Kay
of New Computing fonc@vpri.org; jamie.dougl...@boeing.com Sent: Mon, April 11, 2011 8:21:06 PM Subject: Re: [fonc] Question about OMeta On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 12:09 AM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: But now you are adding some side conditions :) For example, if you want comparable or even

Re: [fonc] Question about OMeta

2011-04-12 Thread Alan Kay
] Question about OMeta On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 12:09 AM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: The larger problems will require something like negotiation between modules (this idea goes back to some of the agent ideas at PARC, and was partially catalyzed by the AM and Eurisko work by Doug Lenat

Re: [fonc] Beats

2011-05-17 Thread Alan Kay
Ian, as an excellent musician, is making the big important point here ... that musical time is not about integer ratios. It is often wrongly taught that way, but it is actually about meaning, pulse, emphasis, and phrasing. Musical notation is not a program to be followed literally, but hints

Re: [fonc] Alto-2?

2011-05-26 Thread Alan Kay
The main features of the Alto were a terrific combination of speed, parsimony, and architecture. -- Speed came from bipolar transistors. It had a 150ns microinstruction time. -- Parsimony allowed these to be economic enough for a 1972 personal computer/workstation (we eventually built almost

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-05-31 Thread Alan Kay
the same approach to networked-based application as Gezira did with graphics (or the STEP project in general) as far assessing what's needed in a modern Internet-scale hypermedia architecture. On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Merik Voswinkel a...@knoware.nl wrote: Dr Alan Kay addressed the html

Re: [fonc] Static typing and/vs. boot strap-able, small kernel, comprehensible, user modifiable systems

2011-06-04 Thread Alan Kay
This issues were in conversations in the mid-60s when I was in grad school. One difference was that there was a computer (and more being thought of) -- the Burroughs B5000 -- that removed one of the motivations for static typing -- it implemented byte codes and 0 overhead dynamic type checking

Re: [fonc] languages

2011-06-05 Thread Alan Kay
the world. Numbers would be in that category, they deserve to be treated specially. In the same vein, I think mathematical operators deserve special treatment, and not just from an under the covers, optimization point of view. Thank you, Florin From: Alan Kay

Re: Terseness, precedence, deprogramming (was Re: [fonc] languages)

2011-06-05 Thread Alan Kay
Hi David I've always been very fond of APL also -- and a slightly better and more readable syntax could be devised these days now that things don't have to be squeezed onto an IBM Selectric golfball ... Cheers, Alan From: David Leibs david.le...@oracle.com

Re: Terseness, precedence, deprogramming (was Re: [fonc] languages)

2011-06-05 Thread Alan Kay
learned - very eye opening. -david On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi David I've always been very fond of APL also -- and a slightly better and more readable syntax could be devised these days now that things don't have to be squeezed onto an IBM Selectric

Re: Terseness, precedence, deprogramming (was Re: [fonc] languages)

2011-06-06 Thread Alan Kay
techniques for making APL efficient colorfully named beating and drag-along. -djl On Jun 5, 2011, at 7:50 PM, Alan Kay wrote: I think this one was derived from Phil Abrams' Stanford (and SLAC) PhD thesis on dynamic analysis and optimization of APL -- a very nice piece of work! (Maybe

Re: [fonc] languages

2011-06-06 Thread Alan Kay
Hi Subbu Check out when Jules Schwartz actual did Jovial. And the acronym was actually Jules' Own Version of the International Algebraic Language Cheers, Alan From: K. K. Subramaniam kksubbu...@gmail.com To: fonc@vpri.org Cc: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com

Re: [fonc] Static typing and/vs. boot strap-able, small kernel, comprehensible, user modifiable systems

2011-06-07 Thread Alan Kay
, Alexis On 5 June 2011 01:33, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: I like Maude (and most of the stuff done by or influenced by Joe Goguen). However, it is basically a term rewriting system that can overlap a bit with equational semantics. Nothing wrong with that, but much of it is essentially

Re: [fonc] Narrative Interfaces

2011-06-15 Thread Alan Kay
Great subject and looks very interesting! Cheers, Alan From: C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org To: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Wed, June 15, 2011 2:44:56 PM Subject: [fonc] Narrative Interfaces We're having some invited talks this

Re: [fonc] Eternal computing

2011-06-29 Thread Alan Kay
Hi Chris I think looking at the way biology works is a good perspective. By the way, we recycle not just the 10 trillion cells that contain our DNA (and the 90 Trillion cells we have with microbial DNA/RNA), but all our *atoms* are replaced about every 7 years (with the exception of inorganic

Re: [fonc] Eternal computing

2011-06-29 Thread Alan Kay
Thanks for the references to The Chemoton Theory -- I hadn't seen this before. But I didn't understand your reference to Bergson -- wasn't he an adherent of the Elan Vital as a necessary part of what is life? and that also drove evolution in particular directions. Cheers, Alan

Re: [fonc] Last programming language

2011-07-17 Thread Alan Kay
What the one-celled microbes said before the Cambrian ... From: karl ramberg karlramb...@gmail.com To: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Sun, July 17, 2011 11:31:11 AM Subject: [fonc] Last programming language Hi Here is a interesting video

Re: [fonc] Alan Kay talk at HPI in Potsdam

2011-07-21 Thread Alan Kay
of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 5:47:15 PM Subject: Re: [fonc] Alan Kay talk at HPI in Potsdam Ian, When will the recording be online? Please let us know! Thanks, Z-Bo On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 7:32 PM, Ian Piumarta i...@vpri.org wrote: Title: Next steps for qualitatively

Re: [fonc] Re: [squeak-dev] [ANN] Alan Kay to talk about Next steps for qualitatively improving programming at HPI in Potsdam

2011-07-23 Thread Alan Kay
@vpri.org Sent: Fri, July 22, 2011 11:27:12 PM Subject: Re: [fonc] Re: [squeak-dev] [ANN] Alan Kay to talk about Next steps for qualitatively improving programming at HPI in Potsdam Am 23.07.2011 04:47, schrieb Juan Vuletich: Casey Ransberger wrote: I did this dance too... Hmm... Seems the Mac installer

Re: [fonc] Making use of Fundamental New Computing Technologies

2011-07-23 Thread Alan Kay
Hi Brad, The Nile language of Dan Amelang -- which STEPS uses for graphics -- should be both powerful and revealing to students for making acoustic models and processes of many kinds. We haven't gotten around to playing with sound om Nile yet. Thanks to Alex Warth and Bert Freudenberg, there

Re: [fonc] HotDraw's Tool State Machine Editor

2011-07-24 Thread Alan Kay
The idea of using a grammar to create a user interface goes back at least as far as Engelbart's AHI group. They used a distant past cousin of OMeta (called Tree Meta) to do this. Ca. 1966. One of the first systems to specify and make graphical grammars (and UIs) via user interactions was

Re: [fonc] Re: [squeak-dev] [ANN] Alan Kay to talk about Next steps for qualitatively improving programming at HPI in Potsdam

2011-07-24 Thread Alan Kay
Computing fonc@vpri.org Cc: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Sun, July 24, 2011 1:59:02 AM Subject: Re: [fonc] Re: [squeak-dev] [ANN] Alan Kay to talk about Next steps for qualitatively improving programming at HPI in Potsdam Dr. Kay, Thank you for giving this talk. Do you recall

Re: [fonc] Alan Kay talk at HPI in Potsdam

2011-07-24 Thread Alan Kay
...@gmail.com To: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Cc: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com Sent: Sun, July 24, 2011 5:39:26 AM Subject: Re: [fonc] Alan Kay talk at HPI in Potsdam Hi Alan, as usual, it was inspiring talking to your colleagues and hearing you speak at Potsdam. I think I finally got

Re: [fonc] Alan Kay talk at HPI in Potsdam

2011-07-25 Thread Alan Kay
! Where are we? In some Danteish 9th Circle of Fumbling? Cheers, Alan From: Thiago Silva tsi...@sourcecraft.info To: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com; Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Sun, July 24, 2011 1:41:33 PM Subject: Re: [fonc] Alan Kay talk at HPI

Re: [fonc] HotDraw's Tool State Machine Editor

2011-07-25 Thread Alan Kay
/Development_of_a_Multidisplay_Time-Shared_Computer_Facility_Apr68.pdf On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 11:39 PM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: The idea of using a grammar to create a user interface goes back at least as far as Engelbart's AHI group. They used a distant past cousin of OMeta (called

Re: [fonc] Alan Kay talk at HPI in Potsdam

2011-07-25 Thread Alan Kay
Sent: Mon, July 25, 2011 1:59:03 PM Subject: Re: [fonc] Alan Kay talk at HPI in Potsdam On 07/25/2011 09:35 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: I did ask in that thread about exposing the CPU, a la NativeClient. (It's a usenet group so you can post without subscribing, nice) Short answer

Re: Growth, Popularity and Languages - was Re: [fonc] Alan Kay talk at HPI in Potsdam

2011-07-25 Thread Alan Kay
The argument about mass popularity is good if all you want to do is triumph in the consumer products business (c.f. many previous raps I've done about the anthropological human universals and how and why technological amplifiers for them have been and will be very popular). This is because

Re: [fonc] Re: [squeak-dev] [ANN] Alan Kay to talk about Next steps for qualitatively improving programming at HPI in Potsdam

2011-07-26 Thread Alan Kay
: John Zabroski johnzabro...@gmail.com To: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Tue, July 26, 2011 7:48:59 AM Subject: Re: [fonc] Re: [squeak-dev] [ANN] Alan Kay to talk about Next steps for qualitatively improving programming at HPI in Potsdam On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 5:37 AM, Alan

Re: [fonc] HotDraw's Tool State Machine Editor

2011-07-28 Thread Alan Kay
, Le 25 juil. 2011 à 10:08, Alan Kay a écrit : I don't know of an another attempt to build a whole system with wide properties in DSLs. But it wouldn't surprise me if there were some others around. It requires more design effort, and the tools to make languages need to be effective and as easy

Re: [fonc] HotDraw's Tool State Machine Editor

2011-07-30 Thread Alan Kay
: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com Sent: Sat, July 30, 2011 3:09:39 PM Subject: Re: [fonc] HotDraw's Tool State Machine Editor On Thursday 28 Jul 2011 10:27:26 PM Alan Kay wrote: Well, we don't absolutely need music notation, but it really helps many things. We don't need the various notations

Re: [fonc] Physics and Types

2011-08-04 Thread Alan Kay
Here's the link to the paper http://www.vpri.org/pdf/rn2005001_learning.pdf Cheers, Alan From: Martin McClure martin.mccl...@vmware.com To: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [fonc] Physics and

Re: [fonc] Physics and Types

2011-08-05 Thread Alan Kay
of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 10:33 PM Subject: Re: [fonc] Physics and Types Oh awesome! Thank you both.  That's got to be one of the single most profound uses of computers I've ever run across. Warm regards, ~Simon On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 6:19 PM, Alan Kay alan.n

Re: [fonc] Physics and Types

2011-08-05 Thread Alan Kay
, Aug 05, 2011 at 03:43:04AM -0700, BGB wrote:     On 8/4/2011 6:19 PM, Alan Kay wrote:       Here's the link to the paper       [1]http://www.vpri.org/pdf/rn2005001_learning.pdf     inference:     it is not that basic math and physics are fundamentally so difficult to     understand

Re: [fonc] Extending object oriented programming in Smalltalk

2011-08-17 Thread Alan Kay
Take a look at Landin's papers and especially ISWIM (The next 700 programming languages) You don't so much want to learn Lisp as to learn the idea of Lisp Cheers, Alan From: karl ramberg karlramb...@gmail.com To: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org

Re: [fonc] Extending object oriented programming in Smalltalk

2011-08-18 Thread Alan Kay
One way to try to think about the idea of Lisp and the larger interesting issues, is to read the Advice Taker paper by John McCarthy (ca. 56-58 Programs With Common Sense) which is what got him thinking about interactive intelligent agents, and got him to start thinking about creating a

Re: [fonc] Extending object oriented programming in Smalltalk

2011-08-18 Thread Alan Kay
ight travel, cool space ship, 3d printers, alien super brain race that had disappeared (the Krell), monsters from the ID.To me Lisp is like something created by the Krell. "As though my ape's brain could contain the secrets of the Krell."I asked John if he had seen the movie and he had.

[fonc] Messages

2011-08-20 Thread Alan Kay
(For example) Try to imagine a system where the parts only receive messages but never explicitly send them. This is one example of what I meant when I requested that computer people pay more attention to what is in between the parts, than to the parts -- the Japanese have a great short word

Re: [fonc] Ceres and Oberon

2011-08-30 Thread Alan Kay
Sure. He was invited to spend a year in CSL in the mid 70s and decided to do an Alto like machine with an Alto-like UI and that ran Alto-like languages (turned out to be an odd combination of Mesa and Smalltalk). Cheers, Alan From: Jakob Praher

Re: [fonc] Ceres and Oberon

2011-08-30 Thread Alan Kay
I'm glad that he has finally come to appreciate OOP. Cheers, Alan From: Jakob Praher ja...@praher.info To: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com; Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [fonc] Ceres and Oberon

Re: [fonc] Re: Ceres and Oberon

2011-08-31 Thread Alan Kay
Subject: [fonc] Re: Ceres and Oberon Alan Kay wrote: I'm glad that he has finally come to appreciate OOP. There are two kinds of people on this list. Those who can tell when Alan is joking and those that can't. :-D Don't know which I am but I can at least say that the OOP that is in Oberon

P.S. Re: [fonc] Re: Ceres and Oberon

2011-08-31 Thread Alan Kay
From: Eduardo Cavazos wayo.cava...@gmail.com To: fonc@vpri.org Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 12:54 AM Subject: [fonc] Re: Ceres and Oberon Alan Kay wrote: I'm glad that he has finally come to appreciate OOP. There are two kinds of people on this list. Those who can

Re: [fonc] Re: Ceres and Oberon

2011-08-31 Thread Alan Kay
From: Jecel Assumpcao Jr. je...@merlintec.com To: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com; Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [fonc] Re: Ceres and Oberon Alan, thanks for the detailed history! 1966 was the year I entered grad school (having

Re: [fonc] Re: Ceres and Oberon

2011-09-01 Thread Alan Kay
I'm so glad I never read this before (and am looking for ways to forget that I just did ) Cheers, Alan From: John Zabroski johnzabro...@gmail.com To: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com; Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Cc: Jecel Assumpcao Jr. je

Re: a little more FLEXibility (was: [fonc] Re: Ceres and Oberon)

2011-09-02 Thread Alan Kay
PhDs in the 60s when he was an ARPA funder). Cheers, Alan From: Jecel Assumpcao Jr. je...@merlintec.com To: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com Cc: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2011 3:17 PM Subject: a little more FLEXibility

P.S. Re: a little more FLEXibility (was: [fonc] Re: Ceres and Oberon)

2011-09-02 Thread Alan Kay
=93gCOAAACAAJ Cheers, Alan From: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com To: Jecel Assumpcao Jr. je...@merlintec.com Cc: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Friday, September 2, 2011 8:23 AM Subject: Re: a little more FLEXibility (was: [fonc] Re: Ceres

Re: [fonc] Re: a little more FLEXibility

2011-09-05 Thread Alan Kay
I hate to be the one to bring this up, but this has always been a feature of all the Smalltalks ... one has to ask, what is there about current general practice that makes this at all remarkable? ... Cheers, Alan From: Murat Girgin gir...@gmail.com To:

Re: [fonc] Tension between meta-object protocol and encapsulation

2011-09-07 Thread Alan Kay
We've already discussed this in other contexts. This is what I meant when I talked about levels of meta and why invoking a function is more benign than using a global assignment (which is tantamount to redefining a function under program control), etc. And certainly to allow unprotected

Re: [fonc] Tension between meta-object protocol and encapsulation

2011-09-07 Thread Alan Kay
Yep. Cheers, Alan From: David Barbour dmbarb...@gmail.com To: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [fonc] Tension between meta-object protocol and encapsulation On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 12:48 PM,

Re: [CAG] Re: [fonc] Fexpr the Ultimate Lambda

2011-11-25 Thread Alan Kay
Schumacher dale.schumac...@gmail.com Cc: Programming Language Design pi...@googlegroups.com; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group fr...@redfish.com; computational-actors-gu...@googlegroups.com computational-actors-gu...@googlegroups.com; Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com; Fundamentals

Re: [CAG] Re: [fonc] Fexpr the Ultimate Lambda

2011-11-26 Thread Alan Kay
loved that little system. This led to the ST-72 eval really being a kind of cascaded apply ... And there's no question that once you aim at real objects a distributed eval makes great sense. Cheers, Alan From: Carl Hewitt hew...@concurrency.biz To: Alan Kay

Re: [fonc] History of computing talks at SJSU

2011-12-16 Thread Alan Kay
looking to hear more from Alan Kay -- you'll find a talk from him and several other big names in computer science here -- thanks to San Jose State University.  http://www.sjsu.edu/atn/services/webcasting/archives/fall_2011/hist/computing.html  -- Kim

Re: [fonc] History of computing talks at SJSU

2011-12-17 Thread Alan Kay
to be used). Cheers, Alan From: Casey Ransberger casey.obrie...@gmail.com To: Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com; Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [fonc] History of computing talks at SJSU Below. On Dec

Re: [fonc] PARC founder Jacon Goldman dies at 90

2011-12-22 Thread Alan Kay
Yes, Jack was a driving force and quite a character in so many ways. Cheers, Alan From: Long Nguyen cgb...@gmail.com To: fonc@vpri.org Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 9:47 AM Subject: [fonc] PARC founder Jacon Goldman dies at 90

Re: [fonc] Raspberry Pi

2012-02-07 Thread Alan Kay
Hi Jecel In the difference between research and engineering department I think I would first port a version of Smalltalk to this system. One of the fun side-projects done in the early part of the Squeak system was when John Maloney and a Berkeley grad student ported Squeak to a luggage tag

Re: [fonc] Raspberry Pi

2012-02-08 Thread Alan Kay
...@loup-vaillant.fr To: fonc@vpri.org Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 1:29 AM Subject: Re: [fonc] Raspberry Pi Jecel Assumpcao Jr. wrote: Alan Kay wrote: We have done very little of this so far, and very few optimizations. We can give live dynamic demos in part because Dan Amelang's Nile

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