Re: [fonc] IBM eyes brain-like computing

2011-10-26 Thread Loup Vaillant
Eugen Leitl wrote: On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 09:00:36AM -0400, John Zabroski wrote: Kurzweil addresses that. As far as I know Kurzweil hasn't presented anything technical or even detailed. Armwaving is cheap enough. Kurzweil addresses that. Do you have literature references for that? As

Re: [fonc] Inspired 3D Worlds

2012-01-17 Thread Loup Vaillant
David Barbour wrote: On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 12:30 AM, karl ramberg karlramb...@gmail.com mailto:karlramb...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think you can do this project without a understanding of art. It's a fine gridded mesh that make us pick between practically similar artifacts with

Re: [fonc] Inspired 3D Worlds

2012-01-17 Thread Loup Vaillant
Le 1/17/2012 6:58 PM, karl ramberg a écrit : On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 5:43 PM, Loup Vaillant l...@loup-vaillant.fr mailto:l...@loup-vaillant.fr wrote: David Barbour wrote: On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 12:30 AM, karl ramberg karlramb...@gmail.com mailto:karlramb...@gmail.com

Re: [fonc] One more year?!

2012-01-21 Thread Loup Vaillant
Le 1/21/2012 2:52 AM, Reuben Thomas a écrit : I have just skimmed VPRI's 2011 report; lots of interesting stuff there. The ironies of a working system that the rest of us can only view in snapshot form grow ever-stronger: the constant references to active documents are infuriating. The audience

Re: [fonc] Raspberry Pi

2012-02-08 Thread Loup Vaillant
Alan Kay wrote: Hi Loup Actually, your last guess was how we thought most of the optimizations would be done (as separate code guarded by the meanings). […] In practice, the optimizations we did do are done in the translation chain and in the run-time, […] Okay, thanks. I can't recall

Re: [fonc] Raspberry Pi

2012-02-09 Thread Loup Vaillant
K. K. Subramaniam wrote: Has anyone looked at Beaglebone - affordable, hacker-friendly ARM board? This? http://beagleboard.org/bone ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-28 Thread Loup Vaillant
Originally, the VPRI claims to be able to do a system that's 10,000 smaller than our current bloatware. That's going from roughly 200 million lines to 20,000. (Or, as Alan Kay puts it, from a whole library to a single book.) That's 4 orders of magnitude. From the report, I made a rough break

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-29 Thread Loup Vaillant
Alan Kay wrote: Hi Loup Very good question -- and tell your Boss he should support you! Cool, thank you for your support. […] One general argument is that non-machine-code languages are POLs of a weak sort, but are more effective than writing machine code for most problems. (This was quite

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-29 Thread Loup Vaillant
. Cheers, Alan *From:* Loup Vaillant l...@loup-vaillant.fr *To:* fonc@vpri.org *Sent:* Wednesday, February 29, 2012 1:27 AM *Subject:* Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA Alan Kay wrote: Hi Loup Very good question -- and tell your Boss he should support you

[fonc] Sorting the WWW mess

2012-03-01 Thread Loup Vaillant
Right now I'm a bit confused. I saw here 2 aspects of the world wide web that make it a mess. 1. The browser cannot host arbitrary processes. So instead of something simple and general, we have the current html + CSS + Javascript + webGl + whatnot… And of course a huge pile of

Re: [fonc] Sorting the WWW mess

2012-03-01 Thread Loup Vaillant
Martin Baldan wrote: That said, I don't see why you have an issue with search engines and search services. Even on your own machine, searching files with complex properties is far from trivial. When outside, untrusted sources are involved, you need someone to tell you what is relevant, what is

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-03-01 Thread Loup Vaillant
BGB wrote: there is also, at this point, a reasonable lack of industrial strength scripting languages. there are a few major industrial strength languages (C, C++, Java, C#, etc...), and a number of scripting languages (Python, Lua, JavaScript, ...), but not generally anything to bridge the gap

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-03-01 Thread Loup Vaillant
Le 01/03/2012 22:58, Casey Ransberger a écrit : Below. On Feb 29, 2012, at 5:43 AM, Loup Vaillantl...@loup-vaillant.fr wrote: Yes, I'm aware of that limitation. I have the feeling however that IDEs and debuggers are overrated. When I'm Squeaking, sometimes I find myself modeling classes

[fonc] The subject line can be changed

2012-03-13 Thread Loup Vaillant
So let's change it the next time the actual subject changes. Loup. David Barbour wrote: This has been an interesting conversation. I don't like how it's hidden under the innocent looking subject `Error trying to compile COLA` ___ fonc mailing list

Re: [fonc] Block-Strings / Heredocs (Re: Magic Ink and Killing Math)

2012-03-14 Thread Loup Vaillant
BGB wrote: On 3/13/2012 4:37 PM, Julian Leviston wrote: I'll take Dave's point that penetration matters, and at the same time, most new ideas have old idea constituents, so you can easily find some matter for people stuck in the old methodologies and thinking to relate to when building your

Re: [fonc] Block-Strings / Heredocs (Re: Magic Ink and Killing Math)

2012-03-14 Thread Loup Vaillant
Michael FIG wrote: Loup Vaillantl...@loup-vaillant.fr writes: You could also play the human compiler: use the better syntax in the comments, and implement a translation of it in code just below. But then you have to manually make sure they are synchronized. Comments are good. Needing them

Re: [fonc] memristors and the changing landscape of systems architectures

2012-07-11 Thread Loup Vaillant
I think the most game changing features are its impressives capabilities, but its impressive *flexibility*. Even if performance wise, relative to power and physical volume, it does no better than other architectures, it is still a full system on a chip, with one crucial difference: nearly all

Re: [fonc] Historical lessons to escape the current sorry state of personal computing?

2012-07-17 Thread Loup Vaillant
BGB a écrit : people need to live their lives, and to do this, they need a job and money (and a house, car, ...). As individuals, in our current society, yes. We can strive for other solutions, however. A analogy with computing would be to say people need an http//html browser to search the

Re: [fonc] Historical lessons to escape the current sorry state of personal computing?

2012-07-17 Thread Loup Vaillant
Pascal J. Bourguignon a écrit : BGB cr88...@gmail.com writes: dunno, I learned originally partly by hacking on pre-existing codebases, and by cobbling things together and seeing what all did and did not work (and was later partly followed by looking at code and writing functionally similar

Re: [fonc] success building maru in maru - a bunch of bugs I had to fix to make it happen

2012-08-31 Thread Loup Vaillant
From the maru page http://piumarta.com/software/maru/ The 2.2 tarball seems to be here: http://piumarta.com/software/maru/maru-2.2.tar.gz (at the bottom of the page). However, we can see Ian did further work: maru is now at version 2.4 Loup. Tom Koenig a écrit : Ian, where do I find the

[fonc] I can't find a copy of The Influence of the Designer on the, Design

2012-09-17 Thread Loup Vaillant
Hello, I am reading Ian's Open, extensible composition models (extended abstract), and the citation of Stoyan's work[1] piqued my interest. Unfortunately, my Google-fu fails me (I get a citation, a 404, and Ian's own paper). Could someone provide me a link to, or a copy of, this paper? Thanks,

Re: [fonc] How it is

2012-10-03 Thread Loup Vaillant
Pascal J. Bourguignon a écrit : The problem is not the sources of the message. It's the receiptors. Even if it's true, it doesn't help. Unless you see that as an advice to just give up, that is. Assuming we _don't_ give up, who can we reach even those that won't listen? I only have two

Re: [fonc] How it is

2012-10-03 Thread Loup Vaillant
Ryan Mitchley a écrit : On 03/10/2012 10:39, Loup Vaillant wrote: An example of a killer-something might be a Raspberry-Pi shipped with a self-documented Frank-like image. By self-documented, I mean something more than emacs. I mean something filled with tutorials about how to implement, re

Re: [fonc] How it is

2012-10-03 Thread Loup Vaillant
De : Paul Homer paul_ho...@yahoo.ca If instead, programmers just built little pieces, and it was the computer itself that was responsible for assembling it all together into mega-systems, then we could reach scales that are unimaginable today. […] Sounds neat, but I cannot visualize an

Re: [fonc] How it is

2012-10-03 Thread Loup Vaillant
Miles Fidelman a écrit : Loup Vaillant wrote: De : Paul Homer paul_ho...@yahoo.ca If instead, programmers just built little pieces, and it was the computer itself that was responsible for assembling it all together into mega-systems, then we could reach scales that are unimaginable today

Re: [fonc] [talk] Cool Code - Kevlin Henney

2012-12-03 Thread Loup Vaillant
start by tossing concepts like 'arrows' at students, they'll be quite intimidated. If a language requires users `import Control.Arrow` or `import Control.Monad` before they can use concrete instances, it is not helping with the learning process. On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 4:22 AM, Loup Vaillant l

Re: [fonc] deriving a POL from existing code

2013-01-09 Thread Loup Vaillant
David Barbour a écrit : […] Creating a good POL can be difficult. (cf. http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4653) From your link: It is easy to miss valuable symmetries or dualities. That one is funny, because I sensed for a long time that this could apply to OMeta-JS¹ (I didn't look at

[fonc] Terminology: Object Oriented vs Message Oriented

2013-02-12 Thread Loup Vaillant
This question was prompted by a quote by Joe Armstrong about OOP[1]. It is for Alan Kay, but I'm totally fine with a relevant link. Also, I don't know and I don't have time for this are perfectly okay. Alan, when the term Object oriented you coined has been hijacked by Java and Co, you made

Re: [fonc] Terminology: Object Oriented vs Message Oriented

2013-02-12 Thread Loup Vaillant
Alan Kay a écrit : Hi Loup I think how this happened has already been described in The Early History of Smalltalk. But [Incredibly detailed and thoughtful response] Whoa. Thank you. Loup ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org

Re: [fonc] Final STEP progress report?

2012-11-08 Thread Loup Vaillant-David
Message- From: fonc-boun...@vpri.org [mailto:fonc-boun...@vpri.org] On Behalf Of Loup Vaillant Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 1:45 PM To: Fundamentals of New Computing Subject: [fonc] Final STEP progress report? Hi, The two last progress reports having being published

Re: [fonc] Me too! A META-II for Lua

2012-12-09 Thread Loup Vaillant-David
On Sat, Dec 08, 2012 at 03:58:46PM -0800, Long Nguyen wrote: Why you too proud? Hand compiling indeed sucks. I did it so you don't have to. Now I'm offended. But awesome work anyway. Well, I had something to prove. :-) Seriously though, I also wanted to make sure I understood how the damn

Re: [fonc] Incentives and Metrics for Infrastructure vs. Functionality

2013-01-01 Thread Loup Vaillant-David
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 04:36:09PM -0700, Marcus G. Daniels wrote: On 12/31/12 2:58 PM, Paul D. Fernhout wrote: 2. The programmer has a belief or preference that the code is easier to work with if it isn't abstracted. […] I have evidence for this poisonous belief. Here is some production C++

Re: [fonc] Incentives and Metrics for Infrastructure vs. Functionality

2013-01-01 Thread Loup Vaillant-David
On Tue, Jan 01, 2013 at 03:02:09PM -0600, BGB wrote: On 1/1/2013 2:12 PM, Loup Vaillant-David wrote: On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 04:36:09PM -0700, Marcus G. Daniels wrote: On 12/31/12 2:58 PM, Paul D. Fernhout wrote: 2. The programmer has a belief or preference that the code is easier to work

Re: [fonc] Incentives and Metrics for Infrastructure vs. Functionality

2013-01-02 Thread Loup Vaillant-David
On Tue, Jan 01, 2013 at 11:18:29PM +0100, Ondřej Bílka wrote: On Tue, Jan 01, 2013 at 09:12:07PM +0100, Loup Vaillant-David wrote: void latin1_to_utf8(std::string s); Let me guess. They do it to save cycles caused by allocation of new string. instead of std::string

Re: [fonc] education experimental target

2013-03-03 Thread Loup Vaillant-David
On Sun, Mar 03, 2013 at 07:23:50PM +0100, Gath-Gealaich wrote: Is this going to require another dose of proprietary binary blobs? With Pi, you at least have to prospect of being able to compile your graphics stuff from Nile into something that actually uses the graphics hardware the way it's

[fonc] 37 Ways That Words Can Be Wrong

2013-04-05 Thread Loup Vaillant-David
Okay, at this point, I have to recommend the sequence mentioned in the subject. Here: http://lesswrong.com/lw/od/37_ways_that_words_can_be_wrong/ Simply put, a human mind have a certain structure, most of which is universally shared among functioning members of a human society (like the

Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins

2013-04-05 Thread Loup Vaillant-David
On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 06:42:53AM -0700, Kirk Fraser wrote: […] Truly worthwhile inventions judging by percent of Nobel Prize awards are by Jews, hence in Hebrew. […] Are your saying that most Nobel prize winning Jews were using Hebrew to think the thoughts that lead them to the Nobel prize?

Re: [fonc] 90% glue code

2013-04-15 Thread Loup Vaillant-David
On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 04:17:48PM -0700, David Barbour wrote: On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Gath-Gealaich In real systems, 90% of code (conservatively) is glue code. Does this *have* to be the case? Real systems also use C++ (or Java). Better languages may require less glue, (even if they

Re: [fonc] 90% glue code

2013-04-16 Thread Loup Vaillant-David
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 12:15:10PM -0700, David Barbour wrote: On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 11:57 AM, David Barbour dmbarb...@gmail.com wrote: 90% or more of code will be glue-code, but it doesn't all need to be hand-written. I am certainly pursuing such techniques in my current language

[fonc] Separating computation from the machine

2013-04-17 Thread Loup Vaillant-David
On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 09:25:19PM +0200, John Nilsson wrote: This discussion reminds me of http://www.ageofsignificance.org/ It's a philosophical analysis of what computation means and how, or if, it can be separated from the machine implementing it. The author argues that it cannot. If I

Re: [fonc] Why Mind Uploading could be horrible

2013-04-23 Thread Loup Vaillant-David
On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 04:01:20PM +0200, Eugen Leitl wrote: On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 02:05:07PM -0500, Tristan Slominski wrote: That alone seems to me to dismiss the concern that mind uploading would not be possible (despite that I think it's a wrong and a horrible idea personally :D)

Re: [fonc] Formation of Noctivagous, Inc.

2013-09-23 Thread Loup Vaillant-David
When a font is hard to read, I use [Ctrl +]. So I did read the whole page. I didn't found it appealing, for one silly reason. Despite the pretty picture and the sales pitch… …I haven't the slightest idea _how_ this program is used. Loup. On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 10:05:58AM -0400, Tom Lieber

Re: [fonc] Personal Programming Environment as Extension of Self

2013-09-24 Thread Loup Vaillant-David
One way of escaping is indentation, like Markdown. This is arbitrary code This is arbitrary code *in* arbitrary code. and so on. No more escape sequences in the quotation. You just have the inconvenience of prefixing each line with a tab or something. Loup. On Mon,

Re: [fonc] Afterword: What is a Dynabook?

2013-10-04 Thread Loup Vaillant-David
On Thu, Oct 03, 2013 at 04:15:12PM -0700, James McCartney wrote: Because ARPA probably would have rejected funding for a worldwide system for the interchange of kitty pictures and porn. That's only the first step. According to Benjamin Bayart, CEO of the non-profit ISP French Data Network

Re: [fonc] To fork or not to fork? (was: Hacking Maru)

2013-10-23 Thread Loup Vaillant-David
Terrific work! I have just cloned your git repository, I will check it out. But first, I need to crack generalised Earley Parsing. I love OMeta, but the hack it uses to get around PEGs limitations on left recursion is ugly (meaning, not fully general). I basically want PEGs that run on Earley

[fonc] Modern General Purpose Programming Language (Was: Task management in a world without apps.)

2013-11-04 Thread Loup Vaillant-David
On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 04:11:15AM -0800, Alan Kay wrote: if we were to attempt an ultra high level general purpose language today, we wouldn't use Squeak or any other Smalltalk as a model or a starting place. May I ask what would be an acceptable starting point? Maru, maybe? Loup.

Re: [fonc] Really nice presentation of the VPRI project

2013-11-09 Thread Loup Vaillant-David
I don't understand the first link... Am I supposed to find a video recording there? Loup. On Fri, Nov 08, 2013 at 01:12:24PM +0100, karl ramberg wrote: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/squeaker/20131103#p1 http://tinlizzie.org/~ohshima/AGERE2013/AGERESlides.pdf (33 Mb) Cheers, Karl

[fonc] Left-most derivation with Earley Parsing

2014-06-22 Thread Loup Vaillant-David
Hello, I am currently trying to implement Earley Parsing. My ultimate goal is to combine all the advantages of OMeta and Earley parsing: - OMeta can handle some context-sensitive grammars. - OMeta's prioritised choice have obvious semantics. - Earley work on left-recursive grammars out of the

[fonc] Earley Parsing Explained (incomplete first draft)

2014-09-18 Thread Loup Vaillant-David
Hi, After spending months banging my head over Earley Parsing, I have decided to write a tutorial. Ian once said Earley parsing is simple and easy to implement. I agree with simple, but not with easy. The required background knowledge is not trivial. This tutorial is an attempt to gather this

Re: [fonc] Earley Parsing Explained (incomplete first draft)

2014-09-20 Thread Loup Vaillant-David
On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 11:57:58AM -0400, Josh Grams wrote: On 2014-09-20 02:27PM, Loup Vaillant-David wrote: Actually, you don't need the back pointers. Plain Earley items are enough. Even better, you don't need all the items. You only need the completed ones. Sure, it's just a classic