RE: XML Graphics: board concerns
Return Receipt Your RE: XML Graphics: board concerns document : was Gil Loureiro/EDINFOR received by: at: 02/02/2005 04:00:42 PM
Re: XML Graphics: board concerns
--- Jeremias Maerki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It was you who suggested having outsiders in the project for oversight, Yes, a Cocoon and a Xalan team member would probably be a good idea. so you shouldn't have a problem with Bertrand or Keiron, right? Keiron is most welcome on the PMC, and I appreciate his willingness to help. +1. Bertrand also +1, should he reconsider. Thanks, Glen
Re: XML Graphics: board concerns
On 24.09.2004 02:54:25 Glen Mazza wrote: Jeremias Maerki wrote: Batik and FOP devs, things have been quiet but I finally know the reason. The board hasn't approved the creation of the XML Graphics project due to the following concern: They didn't recognize any names on the PMC list. Jeremias, this is just not plausible. How could they not recognize Jeremias Maerki, Joerg Pietschmann, or Thomas DeWeese? (Or even me? I've had several emails with Dirk and Ted, etc. over the past year.) Please explain further. I don't know what I can explain any further. I was as surprised as you are. I'm simply addressing concerns that have been brought to my attention. I could copy/paste Sam Ruby's original note here but that wouldn't give you any other clue. BTW, we're not the only ones that are affected by this. The Xalan people now face the exact same problem. They initially had only IBM and Sun people on the list, but not a single Apache member. Berin Lautenbach has to start offering his help in the Xalan PMC, sorry, Apache Xalan PMC, so the resolution has a chance to pass. Fact is that the board wants Apache members in the PMCs so I'm working on that. At least, I didn't make the mistake of omitting the Apache prefix in the name of the PMC. ;) Bertrand is primarily a Cocoon developer but FOP people know him as the FOP committer who brought his JFOR (FO to RTF converter) project into FOP. Ummm, wasn't Peter Herweg (whom Bertrand recommended) the FOP committer who brought JFOR into FOP, and the one who has maintained it for us since then? No, it was Bertrand. Peter has taken over maintenance afterwards. If one of the two would like to take the chair position I'd gladly restart a vote on that part. I'd like Finn Bock to be added to the PMC before we consider adding inactive committers. He's done mountains of work for the project over the past year or so, and it's important that his efforts be properly recognized on this project. Everyone had the chance to volunteer for the PMC. If Finn Bock says he wants that he can have it, even now. I'd be glad to count him in. But that doesn't address the board's concerns. Obviously, we need an Apache member, better two, in the PMC. It was you who suggested having outsiders in the project for oversight, so you shouldn't have a problem with Bertrand or Keiron, right? Jeremias Maerki
Re: XML Graphics: board concerns
Le 24 sept. 04, à 02:54, Glen Mazza a écrit : ...Ummm, wasn't Peter Herweg (whom Bertrand recommended) the FOP committer who brought JFOR into FOP, and the one who has maintained it for us since then?.. This part is not very relevant to the current discussion I think, but: I don't have a very good memory either...in your case I would recommend a good dose of mailing list archives before going to bed...maybe add some jfor.org bedtime reading ;-) Please don't rewrite history. And if you want to follow the jfor to FOP evolution in detail you're forgetting Victor Mote as well. ...I'd like Finn Bock to be added to the PMC before we consider adding inactive committers... Please be careful how you use the word inactive. I suspect this is targeted at me, in which case it is very right as I have done very little for FOP in actual code, but have you looked at the mountains of work that Keiron has done here earlier? I find dismissing him because he's *currently* inactive, without consideration for his former work, inappropriate (I was going to say unrespectful even). To sum up my position: I think the XML Graphics thing is a good idea, and connections to Cocoon are certainly good as well. As I said to Jeremias, I cannot promise much in terms of actual code contributions to the projects at this point, but if I can help by making connections between the projects I'm happy to do it. -Bertrand
Re: XML Graphics: board concerns
Following Glen Mazza's comments, I realize he's meant to be on the XML Graphics PMC as well (IIUC). In this case I think I prefer not to be part of the PMC. This deserves some explanation: I find it very hard to communicate efficiently in email with Glen, this morning for example it took me more than half an hour to reply to his false statements about jfor while trying to avoid a flame war. This is not the first time this happens, so it's probably not the last either. So, I think it would be too hard for me to sit on a PMC with Glen, I'm afraid it would use too much of my energy as it's so hard for me to communicate with him. Sorry for not realizing this earlier - the logical thing is probably for me to turn down the offer at this point, to avoid future problems which might hinder the PMC's progress. I suspect other people have a hard time coping with Glen's way of communicating here, but I won't talk for them - this is only about myself. Thanks for your understanding. -Bertrand
Re: XML Graphics: board concerns
Quoting Glen Mazza [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The board hasn't approved the creation of the XML Graphics project due to the following concern: They didn't recognize any names on the PMC list. Jeremias, this is just not plausible. How could they not recognize Jeremias Maerki, Joerg Pietschmann, or Thomas DeWeese? (Or even me? I've had several emails with Dirk and Ted, etc. over the past year.) Please explain further. Glen, No, it is not plausible. But that's what Greg Stein has told the pmc@ list (I think) in response to questions at to why the Xalan project was having problems getting off the ground. Not only is it implausible, it's downright outrageous, and a very fine example of a degree of incompetence in the current Board that asymptotically approaches totality. I've asked Jeremias how long this startling display took to get back from the Board. Peter
RE: XML Graphics: board concerns
Hi, Thanks for the support. I will go ahead and do whatever I can to help out with this and be part of the XML graphics PMC. I have read all the emails about this concept and think that it is a good idea and should help things develop in useful directions. Regards, Keiron Liddle -Original Message- From: Thomas DeWeese [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 23 September 2004 12:20 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: XML Graphics: board concerns Jeremias Maerki wrote: Does anyone of the Batik and FOP committers have an objection against inviting Bertrand and Keiron into the XML Graphics PMC? I'm happy to have Keiron +1 I don't know anything about Bertrand, so I guess +0. As far as the chair is concerned +0. I'd rather see someone who is active on the projects as chair.
Re: XML Graphics: board concerns
Jeremias Maerki wrote: Batik and FOP devs, things have been quiet but I finally know the reason. The board hasn't approved the creation of the XML Graphics project due to the following concern: They didn't recognize any names on the PMC list. Jeremias, this is just not plausible. How could they not recognize Jeremias Maerki, Joerg Pietschmann, or Thomas DeWeese? (Or even me? I've had several emails with Dirk and Ted, etc. over the past year.) Please explain further. Bertrand is primarily a Cocoon developer but FOP people know him as the FOP committer who brought his JFOR (FO to RTF converter) project into FOP. Ummm, wasn't Peter Herweg (whom Bertrand recommended) the FOP committer who brought JFOR into FOP, and the one who has maintained it for us since then? If one of the two would like to take the chair position I'd gladly restart a vote on that part. I'd like Finn Bock to be added to the PMC before we consider adding inactive committers. He's done mountains of work for the project over the past year or so, and it's important that his efforts be properly recognized on this project. Glen
Re: XML Graphics: board concerns
On Sep 23, 2004, at 5:54 PM, Glen Mazza wrote: Jeremias Maerki wrote: Batik and FOP devs, things have been quiet but I finally know the reason. The board hasn't approved the creation of the XML Graphics project due to the following concern: They didn't recognize any names on the PMC list. Jeremias, this is just not plausible. How could they not recognize Jeremias Maerki, Joerg Pietschmann, or Thomas DeWeese? (Or even me? I've had several emails with Dirk and Ted, etc. over the past year.) Please explain further. I was surprised by this as well. It seems as though all one has to do is look at the FOP-DEV FOP-USER lists to see Jeremias, Joerg, Glen, Clay, etc. Aside from Thomas DeWeese being the first person listed on the Batik whoAreWe page, his name is all over the mailing list. snip If one of the two would like to take the chair position I'd gladly restart a vote on that part. I'd like Finn Bock to be added to the PMC before we consider adding inactive committers. He's done mountains of work for the project over the past year or so, and it's important that his efforts be properly recognized on this project. Glen +1 to extend an invitation to Finn Bock to join the XML Graphics PMC
Re: XML Graphics: board concerns
On Sep 21, 2004, at 10:21 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: Le 20 sept. 04, à 21:59, Jeremias Maerki a écrit : ...If one of the two would like to take the chair position I'd gladly restart a vote on that part... I'm happy with Jeremias (IIUC) being the proposed chairman, I don't want (or deserve by the way;-) the position. -Bertrand Thanks for the response, Bertrand. Just to clarify, in addition to the question of who would chair the XML Graphics PMC, I believe there is another question which needs a vote from you (and/or Vincent Hardy and/or Keiron Liddle): On Sep 20, 2004, at 12:59 PM, Jeremias Maerki wrote: The obvious choice would have been Vincent Hardy who has to decline, unfortunately. So I asked Bertrand Delacrétaz and Keiron Liddle, both Apache members, if they would be willing to join the XML Graphics PMC to keep an eye on things and to address the board's concerns. Cheers! Web Maestro Clay
Re: XML Graphics: board concerns
Jeremias Maerki wrote: Does anyone of the Batik and FOP committers have an objection against inviting Bertrand and Keiron into the XML Graphics PMC? I'm happy to have Keiron +1 I don't know anything about Bertrand, so I guess +0. As far as the chair is concerned +0. I'd rather see someone who is active on the projects as chair.
Re: XML Graphics: board concerns
On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 09:59:21PM +0200, Jeremias Maerki wrote: Batik and FOP devs, Does anyone of the Batik and FOP committers have an objection against inviting Bertrand and Keiron into the XML Graphics PMC? I have no objection and agree with your proposal: vote +1. Thanks for following this up. Regards, Simon -- Simon Pepping home page: http://www.leverkruid.nl
Re: XML Graphics: board concerns
Le 20 sept. 04, à 21:59, Jeremias Maerki a écrit : ...If one of the two would like to take the chair position I'd gladly restart a vote on that part... I'm happy with Jeremias (IIUC) being the proposed chairman, I don't want (or deserve by the way;-) the position. -Bertrand
XML Graphics: board concerns
Batik and FOP devs, things have been quiet but I finally know the reason. The board hasn't approved the creation of the XML Graphics project due to the following concern: They didn't recognize any names on the PMC list. It seems they want at least one Apache member or an otherwise very visible and active Apache committer on the PMC. Obviously, none of the proposed PMC members fit that pattern. That's why I've asked around for such candidates. The obvious choice would have been Vincent Hardy who has to decline, unfortunately. So I asked Bertrand Delacrétaz and Keiron Liddle, both Apache members, if they would be willing to join the XML Graphics PMC to keep an eye on things and to address the board's concerns. Bertrand is primarily a Cocoon developer but FOP people know him as the FOP committer who brought his JFOR (FO to RTF converter) project into FOP. Unfortunately, he's pretty much inactive code-wise but I know he's still monitoring the FOP mailing list. Since Cocoon is a big FOP customer, Bertrand would be a good binding entity between the two projects. I've met him at lots.ch earlier this year and all I can say is that he's a very nice guy. He said, he would be glad to help. Keiron replied to me today. He said he would definitely be glad to help. Many Batik and FOP people will know Keiron well from his active coding days. He knows both projects very well so he can surely be helpful with any high-level problems that may come up. We probably can't count on him doing any coding work, although if that changes we will surely be very happy. He told me he's sick at the moment, so I only have a short statement from him. So we will probably hear some more of him. Keiron, I hope you get well quickly! Does anyone of the Batik and FOP committers have an objection against inviting Bertrand and Keiron into the XML Graphics PMC? If one of the two would like to take the chair position I'd gladly restart a vote on that part. We will not be able to resend the project request in time for this month's board meeting so I'm targeting the next one. Until then, I'd like to have everything sorted out again, so we can finally go forward with this. Jeremias Maerki
Re: XML Graphics: board concerns
On Sep 20, 2004, at 12:59 PM, Jeremias Maerki wrote: Does anyone of the Batik and FOP committers have an objection against inviting Bertrand and Keiron into the XML Graphics PMC? +1 for extending an invitation to join the XML Graphics PMC to Bertrand and/or Keiron. If one of the two would like to take the chair position I'd gladly restart a vote on that part. I would give that a +0, since they do not appear to be actively participating in either FOP or Batik. (I think Jeremias is doing a fine job.) We will not be able to resend the project request in time for this month's board meeting so I'm targeting the next one. Until then, I'd like to have everything sorted out again, so we can finally go forward with this. Jeremias Maerki Thanks for following-up on this Jeremias. Web Maestro Clay
